HOMEBREW Digest #100 Tue 14 March 1989

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  recipes, etc. (Steffen Saustrup)
  Guilt/delayed info/etc. (mhalley)
  My Comments on Killer Party Ale (Mike Fertsch)
  re: delayed responses (Darryl Richman)
  re: freezing of yeasties (Darryl Richman)
  Brewing in plastic (Darryl Richman)
  Green Bottles, Miller's book (florianb)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Mar 89 12:54:58 CST From: steffen at utig.ig.utexas.edu (Steffen Saustrup) Subject: recipes, etc. A couple of questions from a beginner: Do high-alcohol such as 'Killer Party Ale' (posted earlier in H. D.) take longer to ferment than lower- alcohol (assuming same yeast and ferm. process)? Do they take longer to condition in the bottle? Also -- I agree about the flames, etc. but I would like to thank Mr. Mossberg for actually posting a recipe. I'm a recent subscriber to H. D., but I haven't seen many recipes posted (even when they've been requested). I know that the homebrew books are full of recipes, but as a beginner it's nice to see recipes than non-authors have tried and enjoyed. Steffen Saustrup Return to table of contents
Date: 13 Mar 89 14:39 -0330 From: <mhalley%MUN.BITNET at CORNELLC.ccs.cornell.edu> Subject: Guilt/delayed info/etc. To Al K: Bless you| After our first go-round on this network, it's no wonder you waited to come back to me. However, if you want lessons on karmic debts or "How to turn guilt into a fine art", I'm sure I'm a qualified tutor. Thanks again. To Mossberg: Sorry about the snideness, but your comeback about chefs and recipes DID sound rather like you were trying to rub somebody's nose in it. Personally, I apologize to you. I may have misinterpreted. I certainly agree that Lyle's is a unique product which cannot be simulated by anything else in my experience of syrup-type products. To the California and New England crowds: Can any of YOU suggest sources for Geordie products, or must I contact the Illinois sources listed by Al? Finally -- I should be returning to the States between early June and late September. By that time I will be OFF the emailing list. I will be mostly in the coastal areas doing field research. Does anyone want to send me (by personal email) their locations that we might meet and exchange possibly mutually rewarding brewinfo? I'd really like to know. Also, anyone on this line know any veterans of the WW II convoys? I'm looking for sources for my Ph.D. research -- Merchant Mariners: deck or engine room personnel, either officers or crew; Naval personnel: either gunners who were aboard merchant ships or personnel of convoy escorts; wives, widows, or children of the above. Any information should be sent to me by personal email. Thanksabunch| "Ye Olde Batte" (MHALLEY at MUN.CA) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 89 08:45 EST From: Mike Fertsch <hplabs!uiucdcs!meccad.RAY.COM!FERTSCH> Subject: My Comments on Killer Party Ale My comments on the recipe for a.e.mossberg's Killer Party Ale seem to have stirred up the kettle. I've never seem so much bandwidth on a homebrew recipe! I don't want to make this issue a 'network party killer', but I feel I should explain my comments. > Date: Wed, 8 Mar 89 10:52:08 est > From: a.e.mossberg <aem at mthvax.miami.edu> > Subject: Re: Killer Party Ale > Lyle's Golden Syrup is hardly an "unusual" ingredient or a "shop brand". It > is a very well-known product from Britain. Perhaps meccad.ray.com is in the > boonies? Lyle's Golden Syrup is a brand of cane sugar syrup. BrewMagic is > -- you guessed it -- enzymes. It was pretty obvious, and it is also a very > widely distributed brand. I'm surprised you didn't ask me the alpha acid > of the hops too. I honestly never heard of either of these products. I (mistakenly) guessed that Lyle's is a molasses syrup or a honey-based product. Molasses syrup would give a nice 'Old Ale' character to the beer; honey would have a very different effect. Corn syrup is all together different again. I want to try making an old-ale (I would love to make an Old Peculier clone!) A molasses-based Killer Party Ale seems like the recipe I was looking for. I do most of shopping for ingredients at my local homebrew retailer. Since I never saw Lyle's or BrewMagic at Boston-area shops, I need to know what these are so I can substitute. Based others' comments on this network, it seems that supermarkets DO carry Lyle's. I guess I need to learn about alternative suppliers, like supermarkets. The usual supermarket does not carry Lyles' - it sounds like super stuff - I'll just have to look around. > And whatever happened to the AHA credo "Relax, Don't worry!" ?? It seems > oft quoted enough! I do my share of relaxing. Knowing what ingredients are, where I can get them or knowing how I can substitute for them reduces my worries. > I wonder if these people also write to restaurants ala "Regarding the recipe > your chef printed in the newspaper last week, she did not specify the > variety of oregano used nor its harvest date. Were the eggs hen's or duck's? > Does "cooking sherry" refer to fino or cream? The recipe says "cook > for 25 minutes" yet my perusal of the article suggests that 32 minutes 17 > seconds might be a better figure. And finally, the article did not say if > the recipe was good, or if I might want to try it. How on earth am I to > know these things if you don't explicitly state them?" I certainly do NOT expect complete details of any recipe - food or otherwise. I DO request that something be told about the recipe - I am sure the hypothetical article in the newspaper would not have the simple headline "A GOOD RECIPE" and leave it to the reader to decide if these ingredients are used to make a cake, a casserole, or a sauce for chicken cordon bleu. Newspaper recipes usually contain a paragraph describing the dish. Like food, there are many styles of beer and ale. It helps to know what type of beer the recipe produces. Simply listing the beer sytle, category, or commercial look-alike should be sufficient. That's all I wanted to say in my 'criticsm'. Mike Fertsch [ Footnote - Old Peculier is a commercial old ale manufactured in England. It is not available nationwide in the US. Michael Jackson's books on beer descibe the ale in sufficient detail to put the above statement in its proper context. ] To a.e. mossberg - Let's not fight over this. I read the Digest to be informed. I was interested enough in your recipe (I skip over most of them), to openly wonder how I can make a similar beer. Unfamilarity with some of the ingredients and procedures led me to ask about Lyle's and BrewMagic. Last Tuesday's solar eclipse prompted my poorly-worded comment to recipe posters in general. E-Mail me your address, and I send you a conciliatory beer! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 89 06:55:47 PST From: Darryl Richman <darryl at ism780c.isc.com> Subject: re: delayed responses From: hplabs!uiucdcs!iwtsf!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 312 979 8583) "I would like to make a general statment about why I sometimes "take a long time to respond to questions to which I know the answers. " [...] "2) I'm not a super-expert (I've only been brewing 2 years) and "although I might know the answer to a question, I usually wait "for someone more qualified than me to answer first. Now that I'd be interested to know who on this net is qualified by more than a bit of experience. My personal claims are 4 years of brewing. I do try to read each book that comes down the pike, including "The Practical Brewer," which is a bit thick literally and figuratively; but as to formal claims, I have none. (It took me 12.5 years to get my bachelors in CS!). I hardly think of myself as an expert, merely an enthusiastic amateur. Don't put yourself down--you've already got a big headstart on a lot of people. It credits you to add to the knowledge base. --Darryl Richman Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 89 06:36:37 PST From: Darryl Richman <darryl at ism780c.isc.com> Subject: re: freezing of yeasties From: Michael Bergman <bergman%odin.m2c.org at RELAY.CS.NET> "It is my understanding that yeast, in adverse conditions, goes through "a process-that-I-have-forgotten-the-technical-name-for and becomes "these little nearly indestructible "thingies" {I want to say ""enspores" and "spores" but suspect that these are the wrong technical "terms --ah, if only I had saved my 9th grade bio notes :-)}. I think The word you are so desparately seeking is, I believe, "sporulation." You're welcome ;-). The results of sporulation are spores. Most yeast, bacteria, and molds sporulate, and many are resistant to even boiling temperatures while in spore form. If you suspect contamination by a sporulating beast, my microbiologist partners say that you can boil the object, let it cool for a day, and boil again. Sadly, most brewer's yeast does not form spores. True brewing strains have been so highly evolved for their purpose and have their needs so carefully tended that they have mostly lost this ability. --Darryl Richman Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 89 07:23:55 PST From: Darryl Richman <darryl at ism780c.isc.com> Subject: Brewing in plastic Shall we bring up a religious war again? No? Oh, come on, it'll be fun! My practice has been to do two stage fermentations in the polycarbonate plastic 5 gallon carboys that my local water company delivers in. As far as I can tell, there are three reasons to prefer glass over plastic: 1) glass doesn't scratch easily, 2) the glass walls don't flex when you pick up the carboy (and thereby threaten to suck the sterilant out of the airlock and into your beer), and 3) glass is rather less permeable by oxygen. But... I did a brew demo down at the shop where they only have glass carboys, and I busted one. I was doing something that I regularly do with the plastic carboys: rocking them back and forth to knock down the foam head on the just pitched wort. This is a real no-no with glass. Glass is very fragile. I have actually bounced a full plastic carboy (from about a foot up). Glass is also easily subject to thermal shock. I regularly boil 5 gallons of water for rinse and sterile purposes and pour the water directly into a plastic carboy, which I then cap. By the time it is cool, it's in a safe place, out of harms way. (BTW, someone asked about Pyrex carboys: you can obtain them new from the Student Science Service in Burbank, CA. A year old catalog lists a 5 gallon one at $125.) The polycarbonate carboys don't scratch easily, and if I were to actually damage the surface of one, I would trade it back to my water company. (They have the same problems and can recycle them.) They may eventually breathe some air, but during fermentation there is an overpressure inside and so CO2 would tend to get forced out, not O2 in. The plastic carboys are, of course, *much* easier on your back. I'm still working on #2 above. I usually grab the little floating cap out of the airlock and put a blow-by tube (sterilized) onto the lock while I move it. It's a bit clumsy. --Darryl Richman Return to table of contents
Date: 13 Mar 89 13:03:52 PST (Mon) From: florianb%tekred.cna.tek.com at RELAY.CS.NET Subject: Green Bottles, Miller's book I just returned from a trip around Europe for two weeks, touching down in England, France, and Switzerland. Upon my return, I waded through several accumulated HB Dig's, discovering the green bottle discussion that wouldn't go away. During my trip in France, I was forced to drink French beer at a ski resort since that's all there was (gag!). The green death even lives in Europe! On the plane and trains, I finished up reading Miller's book "The Complete Handbook of Home Brewing." He gives a fairly detailed discussion of the mechanism for light-spoilage in beer, which, being an optical physicist, I can appreciate. Miller regards Papazain's book in the bibliography as the most comprehensive book on home brewing. I think Miller is being too modest. After reading both books, there's no question in my mind that Miller's book is the better of the two in terms of the depth of discussion, completeness, and readability. It even has an index. May I applaud Miller for having written something really, really good, and recommend this book to all who have a desire to fundamentally understand the art (and science) of home brewing. Cheers! Return to table of contents
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