HOMEBREW Digest #1076 Fri 12 February 1993

Digest #1075 Digest #1077

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  RE: all grain snobs, diacetyl (James Dipalma)
  Enzymes and temperature (McHarry)
  Rye (McHarry)
  Overnight mashing (McHarry)
  Re: Cincinnati Brewpubs (Randy Smith)
  wyeast 2308 and other stuff (CHUCKM)
  Clarifiers and dry-hopping (jay marshall 283-5903)
  request ("CHESTER RYEGUILD CPS112")
  Lipids in wort ("Bob Jones")
  Licorice for better head... (Steven Tollefsrud)
  re:wine digest. (THOMASR)
  Baltimore/DC brewpubs (SIMONS22)
  A Beer Odyssey (Act II) (Richard Stueven)
  All Grain comments and a recipe (Phil Hultin)
  Protein rest for dextrine malt? (Rob Bradley)
  cold break & pitching ("Knight,Jonathan G")
  All grain costs and wine methods (Nick Zentena)
  yeast reuse correction & all grain costs (Jim Busch)
  Fermenting in Stainless  ("Jim Daly, Digital Equipment Corporation, Maynard, MA")
  AHA Conference Schedule (Bill Ridgely FTS 402-1336)
  Chinook,Lag, Foam (Jack Schmidling)
  address verification (Jena Davidson)
  Irish Red Ale (again) (Lynn Kerby)
  the fermentables-adjuncts-yeasts matrix (Richard Childers)
  Irish Brew (Bill A. Danforth)
  fruit wine making (Victor Reijs)
  chocolate in beer (Sandy Cockerham)
  Misc. beginner questions (Kevin Casey)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 16:49:26 EST From: dipalma at banshee.sw.stratus.com (James Dipalma) Subject: RE: all grain snobs, diacetyl Hi All, Just my .02 worth on the issue of all grain snobbery. I think the whole debate is ridiculous. "All grain brewers are snobs" and "extract brewers are lazy, paranoid, and ill-informed" are both groundless, sweeping generalities, neither position is logically defensible. IMHO, any person who cares enough about good beer to spend the time and effort to brew thier own is a kindred spirit. Slowly but surely, the level of beer consciousness in this country is rising, which is at least partly attributable to the recent growth of the homebrewing craft. That said, what earthly difference does it make *how* the homebrew was produced? I for one am not going to turn up my nose at very good beer just because it was brewed using procedures that differ from my own. *********************************************************************** In HBD #1073, Lee Menegoni writes: >I discussed my brewing process with an experienced all grain brewer I should preface my comments by mentioning that I am this experienced all grain brewer. "Experienced" in this case is a relative term, I've been grain brewing for about 6 months longer than Lee, I've done perhaps 15-20 more batches than he. Having tasted his beers on many occasions (YUM!), I consider us as being at about the same point on the learning curve. >2) Adding finings immediatley after racking to secondary. I admit to being somewhat obsessive about clarity, I used polyclar when racking ales because I wanted crystal clear beer. While this achieved the desired effect, I did end up with noticeable levels of diacetyl. Polyclar is rather indiscriminate about what it scrubs out of the wort, it will cause the yeast to fall out of suspension quickly. This does diminish the ability of the yeast to reduce diacetyl. >What besides pitching to wort at fermentation temperatue and finning after >the yeast has settled or not at all what can we do to reduce the production >of diacetyl and increase its reduction later? I still plan to artificially >carbonate it seems to make for clearer beer and I can drink it sooner, 3 With my latest batch of ale, I did not use finings at all. Once the beer had fermented out, I racked to a keg, put a CO2 blanket on it, and left it in the fermentation room at 65F for 2 days. My reasoning was that racking the beer roused some yeast back into suspension at a time when there were no fermentables, a favorable condition for diacetyl reduction, according to the Zymurgy troubleshooting issue. Leaving it at 65F for two days ensured that the yeast will not settle quickly, providing it with an opportunity to work on the diacetyl. I then chilled and force carbonated the beer as usual. How well did this work? The brew has been conditioning since Sunday, should be ready soon. Lee, when you come over on Thursday night to pick up the yeast culture, let's tap it and see. Ah, the joys of experimentation :-) Cheers, Jim Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 18:54:48 EST From: mcharry at freedom.otra.com (McHarry) Subject: Enzymes and temperature I know that enzyme activity varies with temperature, but I have never seen discussed whether one can run a mash up to the upper 150s to break down some of the starches, then drop back to 148 or so to finish off the dextrins. Does the higher temperature just favor the one enzyme system over the other, or is the lower temperature system actually destroyed? I have always thought the latter, but the literature is unclear, and it would seem the malting process exceeds those temperatures. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 19:00:30 EST From: mcharry at freedom.otra.com (McHarry) Subject: Rye I have been messing (literally) with a couple pounds of rye in my ale. The first batch I boiled the rye and dumped it into the mash. The rye failed to convert since it has a husk or membrane that failed to burst. This stuff needs broken up. I ran it through the Maltmill for the second batch and that worked much better, but-- when I dumped the spent grain into the garden I noted a darker area near the bottom of the bed. It was sweet! Apparently this stuff forms some gunky mass that needs roused into the sparge water a couple times after the first runnings. I shudder to think the yield I might have gotten had I known. As it was, I got 27. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 93 19:06:19 EST From: mcharry at freedom.otra.com (McHarry) Subject: Overnight mashing I have been trying overnight mashing for the last couple batches, and I like the results. For the last batch, I doughed in with 130 degree water from the tap, did the protein rest, and added the rest of the water, still at 130. Then I popped the whole thing in a warm oven and went to bed. By morning the temperature had risen to about 163. I put the sparge water on with the coffee and had at it. The apparent time savings is great, and the extract seems just fine. Of course, this result is dependent on the size of the mash and the temperature your oven will hold. I find that a mash will heat just a little slower than an equal quantity of water, so put a pot of water in overnight and check the results. It might work for you also. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 7:14:14 EST From: rjsmith at iron.hq.aflc.af.mil (Randy Smith) Subject: Re: Cincinnati Brewpubs As Juli recently said: > I'm headed down to Cincinnati this coming weekend for a business trip > and was wondering if there were any good (or bad) brewpubs in the area. > I've heard that there is one right across the boarder in Kentucky, but > that is the only one that I have heard of. > > If you know of any in or around the Cincinnati area please send email > ASAP. The brewbup you are referring to in Northern Kentucky is Oldenberg. They make some fairly good beers that you can get throughout most of SW Ohio and N Ky. Up here in Dayton (45min - 1hr from Cincy) there is the "Chickery" off I-675 on Ohio Route 725. They specialize in chicken (hence the name) and do it quite well. They also make three beers on the premises. I don't remember their names off hand but they have a red ale (pretty good), an American light pilner (standard stuff), and a wheat beer (never tried it). Food is great and the beer is good, worth the trip. There is also a sports bar on Marshall Rd that has an Irish Ale made under contract with Oldenberg. The place is called Harrigan's. They have typical bar & grill food as well. Major meat market on Thurs night. - --Randy-- Return to table of contents
Date: 10 Feb 93 08:23:52 EST From: CHUCKM at PBN73.Prime.COM Subject: wyeast 2308 and other stuff Hi brewers, Here are a few items I am seeking opinion on: 1. Wyeast 2308 (Munich). The description of this yeast says that is sometimes 'unstable'. What does this mean. A friend told me that this yeast may quit before expected final gravity is achieved and rousing and extra aeration may be necessary.... any comments? 2. Does anyone know any specifics about Alexanders malt extract..eg, what type of barley(s), mashing specifics..etc. 3. There was an in Zymurgy for a software application called 'Brewers Logbook' (i think). It looks like a MS Windows application and sells for $49. Does anyone have any experience with this program. $49 seems a little steep to me. Thanks and happy brewing chuckm Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 09:49:39 CST From: jay marshall 283-5903 <marshall at sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov> Subject: Clarifiers and dry-hopping Hello all, I brewed up a batch a couple of weeks ago and, due to too much HB being imbibed during the process, I forgot to add my usual dose of Irish Moss during the boil. No big deal, I thought, I'll just use some kind of clarifier before I bottle. Yesterday, looking at my beer sitting in the secondary, I thought about dry-hopping it. This leads to some questions. First, what is the best kind of clarifying agent (are there really any differences between using Isinglass, gelatin, or something else)? Second, will I run into any problems dry-hopping and using a clarifier? I plan to use pellets (in case that makes a difference). Finally, am I correct in assuming that the clarifiers only have an effect on the proteins, and that it will not affect yeast availablility for bottle conditioning? thanks, Jay marshall at sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov Return to table of contents
Date: 10 Feb 93 11:37:00 EST From: "CHESTER RYEGUILD CPS112" <forsythec at clvax1.cl.msu.edu> Subject: request please put me on your email lists. thanks. chester Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 08:55:08 PST From: "Bob Jones" <bjones at novax.llnl.gov> Subject: Lipids in wort Most of the research on the lipid in wort topic was done by Micah. One of the references used was Declerck. This rather rare text is full of good info. You may be able to check out a copy from your local library via an inter-library loan. I would really like to have a personal copy for my library, I would also like to have copies of both volumes of Malting and Brewing science. If anyone has unwanted copies for the RIGHT price, please email. There is a more polished discussion of this lipid topic in the last issue of Zymurgy that Micah and I wrote, complete with references. Bob Jones Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 17:07:14 +0100 From: steve_T%fleurie at champigny (Steven Tollefsrud) Subject: Licorice for better head... I have a couple of homebrew books which suggest using licorice as a way of promoting better head in beer. In a pharmacy here in France I was able to buy what they call reglisse, which are shriveled up sticks of wood (or root?) with a darkish nut color. They are about 5 inches long. My question is this, is this what I should be using or should I use the sort of black licorice sticks we used to gnaw on when we were kids (which is mostly molasses, I think)? I tried the woodish reglisse (half a stick, pulverized) in my last two batches and had good head, but I'd like to know if this can be attributed to the licorice I used, or if it might be the fact that I used unmalted barley in my wort for the first time (contributing proteins for better head retention?). The problem is I've got two variables and I don't know which helped. If anybody who knows about licorice in brewing can advise me, I'd be much obliged. Steve Tollefsrud Valbonne, France e-mail: steve_T at fleurie.compass.fr Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 17:36:53 MET From: THOMASR at EZRZ1.vmsmail.ethz.ch Subject: re:wine digest. hello again. I've had four requests so far for the address of the wine digest. Well, I'm going to have to disappoint you. I found a number of mail-ins at rusmv1.rus.uni-stuttgart.de (ip a few months ago while browsing the vast archives they keep. However, since I already have more recipes and less storage space than I can use, I didn't make a not of where in the haystack the needle actually was! I has a quck look today, and if you're feeling adventurous you might try /soft/kommunikation/news/spool/news and further down. It is not beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was actually reading rec.food.drink or some such. I'm pretty sure it wasn't rec.crafts.brewing though. Before you start chasing down the directories or getting teed off by being continually forbidden entry to the (VERY POPULAR) site, I'll let you know that the posts I read were very light on info and rather heavy on banter. This may have been an exceptional selection that I read, but you have been warned. Rob TH. p.s. I'll pass on any info I may remember/rediscover as soon as I do. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 11:25 EDT From: SIMONS22 at WILMA.WHARTON.UPENN.EDU Subject: Baltimore/DC brewpubs Hi.... I'm planning a little trip to see brew pubs and microbrewers in the Baltimore/Washington DC area. Looking for your suggestions and reviews. Please mail me [save the traffic], Alex Simons internet: simons22 at wharton.upenn.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 10:18:42 -0800 From: Richard Stueven <gak at wrs.com> Subject: A Beer Odyssey (Act II) A Beer Odyssey (Act II) And up the road I went, and boy is it a long way to Eureka. I can hear the Downtown Brown calling me through the redwoods. By three o'clock, I was there. It's a nice place, Lost Coast, with a lot of seating upstairs and downstairs, and a long brass-covered bar. A sign on the wall announces that the brewery was established on July 13, 1990; Friday the Thirteenth! I hope good luck stays with this place, because they make some of the best beers around. The bar was nearly empty when I arrived, so I got to talk with Marty behind the bar for a while. I asked him if they had beer available for takeout in the plastic gallon jugs like many of the other California brewpubs. He told me that the Department of Recycling told him that those containers are illegal! I find this very hard to believe, because I've been to too many other breweries that offered this method of takeout, and I named many of them for him. I wasn't able to convince Marty, though; he said that all he knows is what the government tells him. I'd appreciate any information that will set either him or me straight. I had a sample of each of their beers to wash down some mighty fine (mighty HOT) Buffalo Wings: Pale - Very good pale, heavy body, light taste, well-hopped. Hefeweizen - Good smooth American style. Thick, just sweet enough. VGI. (Very Good Indeed!) Dunkel Hefeweizen - Very caramelly. If my memory serves me, doesn't it taste a lot like the Brown? Brown - Nope, the Dunkel Hefeweizen doesn't taste like the Brown at all...so much for my memory. Brown isn't nearly as sweet as the Dunkel Hefeweizen. An excellent brown! I like it better (side-by-side) than the Hefeweizen. Stout - Too burnt/astringent. I think maybe they should cut back on the black patent malt. As I tasted their beers, and sipped my pint of Brown, I studied my map. I noticed that Highway 299 runs between US 101 and I-5. I also noticed that if I could get to I-5, I could stop at Sierra Nevada Brewing Company in Chico on the way home. I told Marty what I was up to, and asked him if Highway 299 was the best way to get to I-5 from Eureka. He told me that it was possible, but if I was willing to drive four hours or so out of my way, I could visit three more brewpubs along the way! I had to think about it for a few minutes, but not for too many. Marty's advice: follow US 101 north (being sure to stop at Humboldt Brewing in Arcata) to US 199, continuing to Cave Junction, Oregon. There you'll find the Pizza Deli & Brewery. Continue on US 199 to Grant's Pass, Oregon, and pick up I-5 South. The Rogue Brewery is in Ashland, Oregon. Spend the night in Ashland, and head south on I-5 in the morning to get to Sierra Nevada in Chico. "Sure," says I, "and thanks for the tip!" And off I went. I got halfway to Arcata (a quick six miles from Eureka) before I realized that I had forgotten the T-shirt that I had paid for at Lost Coast. At twenty bucks a throw, it's not the sort of thing you want to leave behind, so I made my only backtrack of the journey. But soon enough I was in Arcata. I wasn't real sure what to expect, as I didn't remember tasting their beers anywhere, and I didn't have any lowdown on the brewery before I arrived. It's really a huge place, especially considering where it is! (Take a look at your California maps, and try to find Arcata.) For a very good writeup of the place, see Steve McClenathan's front-page article in the August 1992 Celebrator. I would have liked to have spent more time here, because the beer was excellent! The real kicker: they were all served from real live hand pumps. In all my travels up to that time, I hadn't seen a hand pump on this side of the Atlantic. I was impressed! My round of samplers included: Honey and Ginger Ale - 4.0%. It certainly is. Pretty good! Light...sweet, the ginger flavor is obvious. Gold Rush - 4.5%. OK, fruity light ale. Red Nectar - 5.0%. Good amber, well-hopped. I've seen bottles of this at Liquor Barn, etc. Redwood Amber - 5.5%. Better than Red Nectar, less hops, more malt flavor. Storm Cellar Porter - 5.7%. Pretty burnt, maybe too much for a porter. Pretty tasty, though... Humboldt Stout - 5.7%. Not as burnt as the porter, smoother. Unfortunately, I didn't have more time to spend there; Oregon was calling. US 199 is a twisty path through mountains and redwoods. Beautiful scenery, and I'll bet it's even more impressive when you're the passenger in the car, rather than the driver. Distractions aside, I arrived in Cave Junction around eight o'clock Saturday night, and I found the Pizza Deli & Brewery right along the side of the road. The name describes this place perfectly; it's a typical little pizza joint with a brewery stuck on the side! I bypassed the "Baitbucket Pizza" (shrimp, oysters and/or anchovies) in favor of a small "Deli Delight" (linguica, mushrooms, pepperoni, olives, beef, and sausage). (So sue me; I'm a carnivore.) I noted in their menu-cum-flyer that they use some imported hops, which I thought was a little strange in Oregon, considering the quality of the hops grown there. They also mention that their beers "are centuries old styles that have been the daily fare of sober, hard-working men and women - not necessarily high in alcohol or strong in flavor". That last clause - "not...strong in flavor" really caught my eye and set my expectations somewhat lower than they might have been. I was pleasantly surprised. Light - Good pale - good pizza beer. Blackberry - It's a good porter. Can't taste the fruit, which is OK by me, since I don't like fruit beers. ESB - Not bitter enough to be called an ESB, but not bad at all. Dark - Good smooth dark ale. Doesn't taste very strong, though... Nut Brown Ale - "High in flavor but low in alcohol" - ain't that the truth. Overall, five good beers, and some very good pizza. This stop really fortified me for what I thought would be the last leg of tonight's journey. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 13:02 EST From: Phil Hultin <HULTINP at QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA> Subject: All Grain comments and a recipe So, I see people have been getting bent out of shape about how they brew their beer. I will simply note that this past weekend I entered a competition sponsored by CAMRA Ottawa, and my All Grain Oatmeal Stout placed third in a field of 14, but that the FIRST PRIZE WINNER WAS AN EXTRACT BASED STOUT. And, it was a good brew, too. So. I brew all grain because that's how I get the most pleasure out of brewing. My beers are good. But, Good Beer is made in many ways, the key being A GOOD ATTITUDE! So maybe we should lighten up, eh? Anyhow, I recall a request some time ago for more recipes and less babble. So here is my CAMRA Third Prize Winning recipe, with comments for improvement. "Breakfast of Champions" Oatmeal Stout Water 35 litres mixed with 0.5 tsp salt and 1.5 tsp chalk to buffer the mash. English Pale Malt (Munton and Fison 2.5 L) 2.8 kg Munton and Fison Crystal (60L ?) 0.8 kg Rolled Oats 0.4 kg Flaked Barley 0.6 kg Chocolate Malt 0.44 kg Roasted Barley 0.1 kg All grains added to mash tun, put first liquor (11 litres) at 80C. Obtained strike temp of 64C (too low). Added 3 litres boiling water to obtain 66C. Mashed for 1 hour. Added 6 litres boiling water to mashout at 70C for 25 min. Drained and sparged with 85C water (too hot). Collected runoff until SG 1.010. Boiled whole wort with 0.5 tsp powdered licorice, 227 g of lactose, and 7 plugs (0.5 oz, 15 g each) of English Fuggles 4.2 alpha. Boiled 1 hour, then removed as much of the hops as possible. Added Irish Moss, 10 grams, boiled 15 mins more. Chilled in counterflow system, removing hot break but allowing cold break to settle in carboy. Pitched with active Wyeast 1084 culture. OG 1.050 in 22 litres. Primary ferment 9 days to SG 1.030. Secondary ferment/maturation 24 days to FG 1.020. Both ferments at 22 C in closed vessels with locks or blowoffs. Bottled with 2/3 cup corn sugar. Carbonation took about 3 weeks but gave nice result. Head retention is not optimal (oats are a problem). A bit excessively astringent and roasty, next time add the dark grains only in the mashout, add a bit more crystal. This one got 39.6/50 but the winner, AN EXTRACT STOUT, got 42.4/50! So, There is my recipe, took all day, I had fun, but the extract product was judged the better beer. Ok by me. How about you folks? Cheers, P. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 13:35:42 -0500 From: bradley at adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley) Subject: Protein rest for dextrine malt? I recently used dextrine malt (carapils) for the first time. It was US malt. 6-row I think. 7 # Munton and Fison pale ale malt 2 # carapils 1 # dark crystal I used a one-step infusion mash in the low 150s. The beer is tasty but has a serious haze. Should I have given the mash a protein rest? The beer is still in the secondary. Can anything be done about the haze? Cheers, Rob "reviled originator of the insipid all-grain snob thread" (bradley at adx.adelphi.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 11:58:38 cdt From: "Knight,Jonathan G" <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU> Subject: cold break & pitching I read Brian Bliss's post on cold break & racking off trub with interest. I've only got twenty batches behind me, but I thought my somewhat heretical methods might be of interest to those with as little or even less experience than myself. If some of you grown-up brewers out there would like to comment too, it would be great. I boil my beer in a Vollrath pot (borrowed from a friend who is currently not brewing). I generally boil about 4 gallons, losing a gallon or so over the sixty minutes. I have pre-boiled and chilled, first in the fridge and then, while brewing, in the freezer, down to almost-frozen, 2 gallon jugs of water. When the boil is over, I stick the Vollrath in my kitchen sink, filled with ice water and dump the almost-frozen water in on top. I cover the pot & wait about a half hour or until all the ice in the sink melts. Seems to me I get a pretty good cold break from this. Wort-chillers? We don' need no stinkin' wort-chillers!!! Then, I rack the beer into my plastic bucket, add the yeast starter (i use the boiled DME + a couple hop pellets method) and stir like nuts, take the gravity reading, and rack into the glass primary ($18 water bottle - $8 deposit forfeit, and $10 for water which made really nice beer once) to which I attach a 1" blowoff hose. Now here's the heretical part. After having read the discussion of yeast nutrients in trub when it first appeared a few months ago, I decided to rack off not only the beer but just a little bit of break material too (maybe 1/2 cup or so). Also, in spite of all the *worrying* about temperature shocking yeast, I pitch at a relatively high temperature - usually in the 80's F.(I brew ales), because, o.k., well, my chilling methods DON'T work as well as a wort-chiller does - but the bottom line is that I always get fantastic starts (under six hours and a lot of crud in the blowoff bucket) and I've been getting some pretty decent beer the last few batches. I imagine I am just being silly with that little bit of break material I rack off, but it doesn't seem to hurt anything either. And if there might be side effects from pitching at high temps, I'd love to know what they might be. At any rate, I may not be one of the World's Greatest but how about one of the World's Cheapest (until my friend recalls his pot and I have to go get one)? Any remarks would be happily entertained. Jonathan Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 12:26:12 -0500 From: Nick Zentena <zen%hophead at CANREM.COM> Subject: All grain costs and wine methods Date: Mon, 8 Feb 93 9:20:23 EST From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> Subject: yeast reuse correction & all grain costs RE: Costs of all grain brewing. >JS has again fired up the snobbery issue and generated a lot of >wasted bandwidth in the process. I am sure jack is pleased. What >I want to comment on is the response that implied the reason to >avoid all grain brewing is cost. It has been noted in this forum >before that going all grain does not mean going broke. To sum up >the costs needed (a low budget, workable setup): >2 plastic buckets with the holes drilled in one, plus a spigot- >$10 >used 7 gallon SS kettle - 35-50$. >(maybe-corona mill-45$,new) >wort chiller, built at home, $25. >total- 65-130$ Actually I started out for even less. 2 food grade buckets that I managed to get for free. a 32qt enamel canning pot. No wort chiller and precrushed malt. To be honest I was using the canning pot for full boils with extract so my only added cost was the tap on the buckets. Less then $50 total including the kettle. Cost isn't the issue but time is! If you don't want to set aside the better part of the day then don't. IMHO liquid yeast did much more for my beer then mashing did. On the issue of wine making. Here in Toronto you can get US wine grapes in season.[Say late Aug-late Oct]. You can buy them either whole or get them crushed by the seller. A second choice is to buy pre-made musts of imported grape juices which are usually available year round. If you are starting out with either the premade musts or pre-crushed grapes the effort required is much lower then beer and even simpler then the orginal method posted. [I.E. dump concentrate add water and sugar] At most you will have to add yeast. Of course you could stick to more traditonal methods and use the natural occuring yeasts on the grape skins. IMHO this tends to produce a wine of greater interest. On the cost issue a standard case of grapes [36lbs] produces 2-2.5Imp gallons of juice [say 10litres+] with prices ranging from $15-25cdn per case plus crushing costs [I think around $1 we crush our own so I'm not sure] Must are higher priced. Has long has you stick to relatively simple methods you will end up with drinkable wines. Avoid doing anything wierd like adding extra sugars or boiling the juice. The main point is to get good grapes. Nick ***************************************************************************** I drink Beer I don't collect cute bottles! zen%hophead at canrem.com ***************************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 12:41:03 PST From: "Jim Daly, Digital Equipment Corporation, Maynard, MA" <daly at mast.enet.dec.com> Subject: Fermenting in Stainless Can anyone comment on their experience fermenting in stainless? Specifically, I'd like to get away from using glass and the idea that comes to mind is to use cornelius kegs. For my primary I could replace a valve with a blowoff tube (although the diameter may be too small with the existing hole), and for a secondary I could replace a valve with an airlock or checkvalve. An alternative for the primary may be a quarter keg with the top removed, which would provide more headroom (7.5 gallons). I guess I could get really fancy and put a valve on the center-underside of the kegs to drain off the sediment during fermentation (the base of the kegs are cupped), similar to what is done with commercial tanks. Has anyone tried something like this? Pros/Cons? Thanks... Jim Daly daly at mast.enet.dec.com Digital Equipment Corporation Maynard, MA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 14:23:00 EST From: Bill Ridgely FTS 402-1336 <RIDGELY at A1.CBER.FDA.GOV> Subject: AHA Conference Schedule Yesterday, Charlie Castell brought to our attention the conjunction of a ski race camp with this year's AHA Conference: >Most of you are reading this thinking that I've sent mail to the >wrong digest. However, consider the dates: >3-day Summer Race Camp, Mt. Hood July 23-25 >AHA National Convention, Portland July 26-30 >Oregon Brewers Festival, Portland July 30-Aug 1 >Looks like quite a week. (Etc). Well, as long as we're on the subject, here's another amazing conjunction that some of you may find interesting: AHA National Convention, Portland July 23-25 Oregon Brewers Festival, Portland July 30-Aug 1 National Speleological Society Annual Convention, Pendleton Aug 2-6 For those not familiar with the latter, it's the national association devoted to caves and cave exploration. I've found over the years that a lot of homebrewers are also cavers (we have several in my homebrew club), and believe me, beer and cavers go together like Scotch and soda. Cavers are also generally crazy and like to party in a major fashion. The NSS Convention is a week- long campout with nightly parties including, among other things, "adult water sports" (sauna, hot tub, etc). Don't get me wrong - some serious science and athletic competition takes place during the day, but evenings are generally devoted to carousing and mass consumption (Does this start to sound like the AHA Convention?). The fact that the two are colocated in time and space this year is a major reason for an old West Virginia potholer like myself to make the trip (although I'll be at the AHA anyway to co-present one of the talks). Out of curiosity - any other caving homebrewers out there? Private e-mail preferred. Bill ridgely at cber.cber.fda.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 15:00 CST From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Chinook,Lag, Foam >From: kstiles at aluxpo.att.com >ObBrewing: No takers on my question about flavor/aroma properties of Chinook hops, huh? Do any commercial brews use them? A number of brewers use them although at the moment I can not name them but it frequently comes up in trade journals. At last Sunday's ALEFEST sponsored by CBS, there was one that boasted of the use of Chinook exclusive and it was an excellent ale. Unfortunately, I do not recall the brand. I have used almost nothing but Chinook for the past year in over 40 batches and am just now moving on to other varieties now that I have a bench mark. I just bought some imported Hallertau to try in my first batch with Belgian Munich malt. I will let youall know if it is worth the expense. I had routinely used a 1/2 oz plug of imported Saaz at the end of boil but as I could not tell the difference between batches without it, I quit doing it. As far as aroma goes, I have nothing to compare it with yet but moments after dumping the Chinook into the boiling wort, the aroma that wafts out of the kettle can only be described as what I now consider one of the reasons I make beer. I will be most impressed if an exotic hops can improve on this. >From: Lee Menegon <necis!lmenegon at transfer.stratus.com> >1) Pitching into wort that was much warmer than the target fermentation temperature. We did this to reduce lag time. If your dyacetyl taste is coming from fermentation temp and you are concerned about lag time, I suggest you reconsider your priorities. Presuming that you have a reasonable quantity of well working starter, the lag time will not be excessive if you pitch at or near primary fermentation temp. However, the most benign temperature is always whatever the starter is when pitched. If it is at room temperature, it should be pitched into room temp wort for minimum lag time and to minimize the shock to the yeast. BTW, you did not mention just how warm "warmer" is so I am shooting in the dark but I think in general, far too much concern is given to lag time and curing it by pitching "warm" is probably not worth the risk. >From: korz at iepubj.att.com > I urge you to try the blowoff method for a beer or two and compare. I don't think I want to get into blowoff vs skimming again but I think that most people who use "open" fermenters skim the foam which is the equivalent of blowoff. The point made by the author was that removing the foam, by whatever means, severly reduces the quality of the beer. That is the mis-information we were dealing with. For what it is worth, I tried blow-off once and wrote it off as just another one of those procedures that you either believe in or don't and no amount of discussion will change a believer's mind. >From: korz at iepubj.att.com >> I suspect that it might have a negative effect if Fix's hypothesis on HSA is correct. What say George? >Oops. I think there's some miscommunication here, Jack -- the mash isn't hot at this time so Hot-side Aeration (HSA) is not an issue. I was under the impression that the spray water being mixed with the grist was hot. As spraying it would significantly increase its surface area, it would disolve more oxygen than if simple poured in. If cold, it would be even worse but of course become CSA. >From: orgasm!davevi at uunet.UU.NET (David Van Iderstine) >>Keeping in mind that lots of people stick with extract because they are lazy, paranoid or il-informed (blah blah blah) ..... >So, Jack, since *YOU* were still an extract brewer right up until the middle of last year, which were you-lazy, paranoid, or ill-informed? Maybe you left one out? I am sure this will disappoint you but I have no problem recognizing that I was all of the above and I probably did leave a few out. This is precisely the reason I feel so strongly about my position. For the record, my first all grain batch was on Sep 23, 1991 and have not used extract since. > If anyone else gets as ticked off as I do with stupid statements like that quoted above, I've been advised our only recourse is to FLOOD the poster with private e-mail stating how we feel. Please do; I am! I much prefer your public comments to your trashy and vulgar email. If anyone takes your suggestion, they will get the same treatment. As a matter of fact, if you do it again, I will start posting your trash to the Digest. js Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 15:52:08 MST From: Jena Davidson <G0463114 at NMSUVM1.NMSU.EDU> Subject: address verification Yes, you do indeed have the right address. I have just subsribed and am intere sted in recipes, news, techniques. What is your favorite beer? (imported and d omestic) Happy Valentines DAy!!! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 19:16:25 PST From: lfk%kerbit at uunet.UU.NET (Lynn Kerby) Subject: Irish Red Ale (again) In HBD1074 Guy McConnell writes: > The one saving grace >of Coors is that they are the only megabrewer still producing a decent, all >barley beer, albeit seasonally, in Winterfest. We couldn't even get that here >in Huntsville this year. Too bad :-( it wasn't half bad for a Coors product. I took offense a the word "STOUT" on the label where other domestic premium beers are labeled "MALT LIQUOR". Winterfest and stout are about as far apart as you can get in the world of beer styles like the Sam Adams Cranberry Lambic and real Lambics. I wish that domestic brewers would just stop being so pretentious and call their stuff what it is. Lynn Kerby - {apple,amdahl}!veritas!lfk or lfk at veritas.com Disclaimer: Any and all opinions expressed herein are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of anyone, especially my employer. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 19:25:26 PST From: Richard Childers <rchilder at us.oracle.com> Subject: the fermentables-adjuncts-yeasts matrix "Date: 22 Jan 93 13:34:21 EST From: Jeff Frane <70670.2067 at compuserve.com> Subject: Barleywine Yeast Method . . . The notion of using champagne yeast is pretty bizarre, when you thithink of it. Can you imagine any self-respecting British brewery using some Frog yeast? Part of the problem may have arisen from the homebrewer's notion that everything should be quick and easy. The British barleywines I've tasted have all required _years_ to reach a drinkable stage--but they _will_ get there." I find it most convenient to view brewing as a finite state system with four axes : - fermentable(s) - adjunct(s) - yeast(s) - sequence(s) It can be visualized thusly : Fermentables & adjuncts ..... +------------------------------------------------------- . . . | Y | e | a | s | t | s | | . | . | . | . . . ... and both axes are deliberately _not_ finite, because I don't believe there are _any_ boundaries to the brewing experience, except those that are imposed by the participant. Not only is the list of fermentables and adjuncts unlimited, but, given the proclivities of yeast populations and the diversity of microclimates, so are the possible yeasts and their combinations. This is one of the reasons I like the homebrewing community, because of the vagueness of the term 'brewing', where the boundaries aren't very specific. One can brew beer ... wine ... cider ... and anything else one wishes to try. The number of known results are far outweighed by the number of unknown results, and this promises rewards to the experimentally inclined. For example, I'm fermenting some black cherry juice from Napa Valley with Pasteur Champagne Yeast, the same yeast I use to make sparkling cider out of apple juice. I tried natural apple yeasts and liked the champagne yeast much better. Even if it doesn't taste good I can use it as an adjunct to another brewing experiment, like a fake cherry lambic. - -- richard ===== - -- richard childers rchilder at us.oracle.com 1 415 506 2411 oracle data center -- unix systems & network administration ... whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 21:39:31 PST From: danforth at trinity.llnl.gov (Bill A. Danforth) Subject: Irish Brew Hello All, My monthly dinner club is planning on an Irish theme for an upcoming dinner. I am looking for recipes of Irish brews. Please send them via email, and if people want, I can post a summary or post the recipe I used and how it came out. Please send recipes to: danforth2 at llnl.gov Thanks in advance, Bill Danforth danforth2 at llnl.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 93 10:09:03 +0100 From: Victor Reijs <Victor.Reijs at SURFnet.nl> Subject: fruit wine making Hello Rob and others, > .... possibly because they don't (I'll take an industrial example : most >english bitters contain types of sugar, eg mollasses). Well it's the same >with wine. Wine making started long before the french made it their own. >People have been making blackberry, strawberry, in fact hundreds of >NON-grape wines for centuries. It is the "grape wine snobs" and a very >powerful french industry which has meant that you can't buy them (a few >companies in britain sell them, including Gales - the brewery). >True this is a beer forum, and also true there are (sorry is) a digest Also here is a big cultural difference between America and Europe then. As I read in another mail that wine makers are people who just take a can and brew something, you hear the same story in Europe but then for beer makers;-) But that is just for information and like all generalizations it says not much!. But there have already been more questions about wine and reading the above message I see that there is a forum for fruit wine making (I do not mean cider making (is a type of wine) like mead). Is that correct and could you please information on that. If not, is it not possible to set up such a list somewhere, who volonteers??? All the best, Victor Return to table of contents
Date: 11 Feb 1993 08:20:46 -0500 (EST) From: Sandy Cockerham <COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L at LILLY.COM> Subject: chocolate in beer I for one can't tell you how to clean the mess, but next time perhaps you should try using cocoa instead. In an old Zymurgy, Charlie P. has a recipe for "Slanting Annie's Chocolate Porter". When he made it he spoke of the globs of floating cocoa butter mess produced. He then stated that to get around that one could use a good powdered cocoa. One of the guys in the local brewclub made a chocolate porter with cocoa and it was GREAT! Sandy C. From: COCKERHAM SANDRA L (MCVAX0::RX31852) To: VMS MAIL ADDRESSEE (IN::"homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com") Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 93 08:58:01 EST From: casey at bbt.com (Kevin Casey) Subject: Misc. beginner questions I began my homebrewing experience by brewing "kit" beers in September, and have since brewed at least 4 batches of all malt extract beers. After 9 or so batches, I have some questions that I would like answered. I made a batch of Pilsener which looks beautiful in the bottle until I refrigerate it. What causes the hazing of the beer when I chill it, and how can I avoid it? I have experimented with differenct adjuncts. Are there any items that should not go in Beer that would cause it not to ferment properly? I haven`t had a gushing problem but I do have some of the first beers that I made and they seem to be overcarbonated. They were fine for 4-6 weeks and then began to lose flavor. Is this due to the yeast used?, and how much flavor is a factor of the yeast used? At what temperature would an average beer of 4-5% alcohol freeze? I would rather store them in my garage than in my closet, but do not want them to freeze. Any help would be appreciated. I also have one comment on the all-grain vs extract brewing wars. Even a kit beer tastes better than most domestics. Kevin Casey (casey at bbt.com) Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1076, 02/12/93