HOMEBREW Digest #1105 Thu 25 March 1993

Digest #1104 Digest #1106

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Re: SpecialIssues/DryYeast/Secondary?/Kiwi SS/Sanitation/Hallertauer/Baderbrau (korz)
  Pub Draught Guinness (Gerald Winters)
  Re: (Tony Babinec) big brewers brewing ales? (Richard Saunders)
  Texas Brewpub Rumors (Sean C. Lamb 335-6669 Loral)
  Boiling specialty grains? (SWEENERB)
  Just a reminder (TOMBOROON{)
  Rolled Oats and Judges (Ron Karwoski)
  Big Brother is Watching (Jack Schmidling)
  Coiled tube manifold-fitting in an Igloo cooler (Dennis J. Templeton)
  Jeff Frane's Carapils/Dextrine info (Al Marshall)
  Towers ("Rad Equipment")
  Thermostat placement in a freezer (Patrick_Waara.WBST129)
  Carapils (Jack Schmidling)
  starters ("Knight,Jonathan G")
  Culturing Duvel Yeast (24-Mar-1993 1526)
  Re: Cider (Robert Schultz)
  Questions on priming with DME, and Warm climate brewing (Markham R. Elliott)
  brass,zymurgy,dark grains,chimay clone (Russ Gelinas)
  Pete's Wicked Clone (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
  Whitbread Warning (George J Fix)
  Dark grains at mashout (Eric Wade)
  Lager Starers / Starter SG (Lee Menegoni)
  Niagra/Buffalo or even Rochester beer retailers? (Nick Zentena)
  Hops and submersion chiller? (Jim Bayer)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 13:47 CST From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: Re: SpecialIssues/DryYeast/Secondary?/Kiwi SS/Sanitation/Hallertauer/Baderbrau Rob writes: >To the point: all of the special issues of Zymurgy from past years >can be back ordered, and I'm interested in opinions as to which >(if any) are worthwhile for an old dog who's always willing to >learn new tricks. > >The issues in question: > >1985 All-grain 1986 Malt Extract 1987 Troubleshooting >1988 Brewers and their Gadgets 1989 Yeast 1990 Hops and Beer >1991 Beer Styles 1992 Gadgets and Equipment In my humble opinion (IMHO), these back issues are all quite good or better and fall into three categories: good, great and indispensable. I believe the good are the 1986 and 1991, and the great are the 1985, 1988 and the 1992. The indispensable are the 1987, 1989 and the 1990. I literally refer to the 1990 on each batch I brew and refer to the 1987, 1989 and 1991 at least once per month. I should refer to the 1988 and 1992 during the summers (but I don't) when I have the time to build new hardware. Perhaps this summer. **************************** Geoff writes: >So what is the best OG for a starter? Is the value different for culturing >up from a small amount (say from a slant), from that for growing an existing >large colony (say from a packet of dried yeast)? Or, assuming that one might >culture from 10ml to 100ml and then to 1lt, should one use the same OG medium >for the 2 stages, or might it be better if they were different? I have this information scattered among files and books, but don't have the time to compile it all into a meaningful, concise answer. However, your mention of dry yeast brings up an important point, the source of which I recall. According to the Lallemand Yeast Newsletter as well as several other sources, DRY YEAST SHOULD BE REHYDRATED IN PLAIN, STERILE (as much as possible) WATER -- NOT WORT. It all has to do with hydrostatic pressure and some other technical stuff, which I didn't store in my head, but the importance of this is generally agreed upon in the literature. ******************** Richard writes: > Three days ago I made a Trappist ale and used a cultured Chimay for >yeast. It began fermenting that night and fermented vigorously for the next >two days. > Now it has slowed way down and the S.P. is within 2 points of that >specified in the receipe. > Is it time to go to the secondary even though it has only been three >days? The receipe called for three weeks in the primary and one week in the >secondary.(Cats Meow Ed2 pg. 9-18) I would omit the secondary. You must have had some very lively yeast or fermented at a higher temperature than the author of the recipe or perhaps aerated better than the author. At this point, now that the beer is almost done, going to a secondary would only increase the risk of infection and an additional racking would aerate the beer more than if you just racked it into the bottling vessel when the beer is done. I feel that, in this case, the benefits are not outweighed by the possible problems. *************************** DAVID writes: >Subject: Looking for stainless containers in New Zealand? Don't they raise cows in New Zealand? Try a dairy for surplus equipment. *************************** Russ writes: >>Steam Sterilization: (p.49) >> ... >>At least 30 min steam treatment at 1 bar over pressure after the equipment >>has heated to 100C is necessary to achieve sterilisation of a >>cleaned piece of equipment." > >Yes, for *sterilization*. *Sanitization*, which is sufficient for most of >homebrewing, is much less rigorous, and more easily achieved. Steam and >boiling water seem to be very good sanitizers. I recently read somewhere that 30 minutes of pressure cooking a rubber stopper did not kill some Pediococcus bacteria. Immediately upon reading this, I went downstairs and labeled my 20 gal HDPE pLambik fermenter and all the stoppers and hoses I used "LAMBIK ONLY." I plan to keep them separate from my conventional beer equipment. ************************** Jack writes: >>Subject: Yeast Lab, Hallertau in porters > ^^^^^^^^^ >>Thanks to all who replied on the subject of Hallertauer in porters. > ^^^^^^^^^^^ >Would someone please provide the correct spelling for this word? Actually, Hallertauer is more correct. The "er" suffix in German generally means "of" or "from" therefore, "Hallertauer" are hops with direct lineage to the type of hop that was grown in the Hallertau area. "Hallertau" is kind of correct, but bad grammar. Consider "Boston Lager" versus "Bostonian Lager." > >From: korz at iepubj.att.com > > >With all due respect to you, Jack, and at the risk of bringing an abrupt > end to the pleasant demeanor (and humor) you've recently displayed in > HBD, I'd like to dispute Ken Pavichevich's claims that Baderbrau is a > Pilsener. > > Tis not my wont to end pleasant things by propounding on that which I know > nothing about. On the contrary, it appears that you know enough about Pilsener to take 2nd place in Pilsener at the 1993 "Who Died and Made Us B.O.S.S.?" Competition. > I was simply re-stating claims made by the brewer. The claims (also by the > brewer) that M.Jackson ageed, seemed to offer some weight but after all, they > are all in it for one reason and the tendancy to offer mutual support seems > to over ride absolute truth. Perhaps this is true. I've discussed this off-line with Jim Busch, and have, with some prodding from George Fix, conceded that Baderbrau is too bitter and too dark to be a true Munich Helles but my way of looking at it is as a over-hopped Helles rather than a too-malty Pilsener. Perhaps, as Jim suggested in private email, a new category is needed for beers such as Baderbrau and Samuel(tm) Adams(tm) Boston(tm) Lager(tm). I propose the name: "Robust American Lager." Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 15:12:16 -0500 From: Gerald Winters <gerald at citi.umich.edu> Subject: Pub Draught Guinness from Phil Hultin... >I must say that I am surprised at all the enthusiasm for canned Guinness. >When I tried it (a 4-pack, shortly after it was introduced) I was totally >unimpressed. I would like to second Phil Hultin's comments. One of the common complaints about BudMichMiller is the rather thin palate or general lack of flavor. Well certainly canned Guinness does a bit better but, hey, it tastes watery to me. I'll stick with the bottled version. Gerald Winters Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 93 13:31:09 PST From: Richard Saunders <richsa at microsoft.com> Subject: Re: (Tony Babinec) big brewers brewing ales? One thing to note about Miller's Special Reserve beers: They are "100% Barley Draft" not "100% (made from) Barley". All they are claiming (legally) is that there is barley in the beer and that it is 100% draft. Tricky bastards. Me still tastes quite a bit of corn (or something) in these brews! Still, it tastes better to me than their regular GD (Genuine Draft) stuff..... Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 00:20:59 CST From: Sean C. Lamb 335-6669 Loral <slamb at milp.jsc.nasa.gov> Subject: Texas Brewpub Rumors Well, seeing as how I haven't seen anything on this subject lately from our friends at SW Brewing News, I'll contribute my share of the latest hearsay. I was at the Houston Foam Ranger meeting last Friday night, and one of our members was conspicuous by his presence. He works in one of the better pubs in town, and is usually at work when the meetings are held. I know that he is keen on the brewpub legislation, so I "tapped" him for some information while we partook of a keg of raisin/cinnamon mead. The public hearing on the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Comission Sunset bill took place on 15 March. The committee holding the hearing had to review the whole bill, which is rather thick, so they didn't want to spend a lot of time on the pesky brewpub thing. I guess the people lobbying for this are doing a good job, because the brewpub section of the bill was replaced with wholesale with a new section. The details are that there will a separate brewpub license available in Texas. It will allow the production and sale of beer and "malt liquor" (Texas legalese for beer w/> 4.0% alc. by volume) for sale on-site and "to go". It will allow "bright beer" tanks for serving. The license will cost $500 for each increment of 5000 barrels of production the licensee wishes to produce. The license _will not_ allow the licensee to distribute its own product. This seems to be the only concession to the Texas Beer Wholesalers Association, which has been the group holding up this type of legislation in the past. The bill, if passed to the House floor by the committee, and then approved, and then if a similar bill were passed in the Senate, is supposed to take effect Sept.1. I predict a good contingent from Texas at the Institute for Brewing Studies convention/shindig in New Orleans next month! I also predict that there will be at least on brewpub in Houston by this time next year, if not earlier. If you couldn't tell, all of the above is hearsay and conjecture on my part. Maybe Joe Barfield can verify this for me. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- . _ . _____________ |\_|/__/| / \ / / \/ \ \ / Happy! Happy! \ /__|O||O|__ \ \ Joy! Joy! / |/_ \_/\_/ _\ | \ ___________/ | | (____) | || |/ \/\___/\__/ // _/ (_/ || | Real ||\ Sean Lamb (slamb at milp.jsc.nasa.gov) \ Beer //_/ Loral Space Info Systems \______// Houston, Texas, USofA, Earth, Sol __|| __|| (____(____) Return to table of contents
Date: 24 Mar 1993 00:41:04 -0600 (CST) From: SWEENERB at memstvx1.memst.edu Subject: Boiling specialty grains? I was wondering if anyone holds an intelligent opinion about boiling specialty grains like chocolate malt as opposed to just steeping them in 165-170 degree water which will be added to the boiled wort made from malt extract. Since I have not as yet tried all-grain brewing I still boil in a 4 gallon pot, so I boil half my water first, store it in the carboy then add the wort after a subsequent boil. On my last batch I decided to steep the specialty grains after finishing the initial boil, then strained them out of the water and added boiled wort. Is there a downside to this procedure? That batch, a porter tasted pretty good, a reasonable extract facsimilie of Anchor Porter- yumm, but the vast experiences of the HBD might convince me of the error of my wheys. Also, Miller's CHofHB recommends aerating the wort at 1hour intervals after racking to the primary, then after 8-12 hours racking again off the hot&cold break. I have tried this a few times and have not been able to tell any difference. Is this worth the trouble? Any comments, observations, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Bob Sweeney - SWEENERB at MEMSTVX1.BITNET Memphis State University Status: Permanent Student (901) MSU-4210 _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- Dogbert's First Rule of Innovation: Companies are generally slow to adopt new ways of business, especially if it means a reduction in their beloved paper. Dilbert: I created a computerized interactive multimedia training tool for the department. Boss: Wonderful. Make some photocopies and route it around. Return to table of contents
Date: 24 Mar 1993 01:44:10 -0500 (EST) From: TOMBOROON{ <STETLERT at VXC.UNCWIL.EDU> Subject: Just a reminder Hi. I know this isn't the kind of message you folks feel like seeing in this digest, but give me a few seconds of your time, could you? About a week ago, my younger brother died in an automobile accident. Alcohol was involved. I don't understand why things had to happen the way they did. Probably never will... but I can't help thinking about how the driver of the other car could have saved my family quite a bit of grief if he had bothered to call a cab or get a friend to drive him home. I have nothing against homebrewing. To many of us, it's much more than a hobby. It's an art, a science, a tradition, and a way of life all rolled into one. But we often forget the incredible responsibility we have to our safety, and that of those around us. Please don't drink and drive. Tom Stetler Stetlert at vxc.uncwil.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 07:15:52 CST From: rak at mayo.EDU (Ron Karwoski) Subject: Rolled Oats and Judges All this talk about using oat bran vs rolled oats has reminded me of a problem I had with my last batch of beer. Following TCJOHB2 recipe for Uckleduckfay Oatmeal Stout I did a partial mash using rolled oats (Quaker non-instant breakfast type) and other grains. The resulting beer tastes good, although it is a little thin, probably due to poor extraction. Anyway, the beer is well carbonated but has zero head. A very "loose" head forms when the beer is poured but quickly disappears. I'm not quite sure what the problem is but I am wondering if the rolled oats had anything to do with this. Any ideas? Also our Club is looking at organizing a hombrew competition for our county fair in August. What we need are judges. Is there a list of registered judges someplace? How does one go about hiring a judge and what are typical costs? Also, anyone know what it takes to become an AHA sanctioned competition and is it worth it? Thanks. Ron Karwoski Internet: rak at bru.mayo.edu Rochester, Minnesota Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 09:17 CST From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Big Brother is Watching Another incredible tale of the evils of bigger government was played out on the 10 O'Clock news last night. It's another good example of what Big Brother does with our hard earned tax money and why we should refuse him one more cent. Instead of arresting drug dealers that can be found on thousands of street corners any night (or day) of the week, the FBI choses to hassle homebrewers with our tax money. They mounted a remote TV camera on a utility pole in front of Alternative Garden Supply in a suburb and monitor everyone who enters and leaves the store. The camera is on a transformer whose top insulator sports a UHF antenna instead of the usual wire running up to the HV line. Not terribly clever but seems to work. The next thing they did was to open a sting headquarters in a shop in an adjacent shoppping center and staff it with a dozen or so agents. They either sit and monitor the tv or watch in patrol cars parked in the parking lot of AGS. When they see someone who fits the "profile" of an evil drug dealer, they follow him/her home and bluff their way into whole house searches including dogs to sniff out the evil weed. Needless to say, so far they have found nothing and have spent millions. I did my patriotic duty and drove out there and gave the old "vulgar salute" to the camera and had a chat with Dave Itel, the owner. I tried to talk Marilyn into giving the camera a moon but she declined and just waived. It is truly pathetic and I suggest you all drop a line to the best friend Big Government ever had. He can be reached on line at: 75300.3115 at compuserve.com (via CompuServe) clintonpz at aol.com (via America Online) clinton-hq at campaign92.org (via MCI Mail) js Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 10:58:05 -0500 From: djt2 at po.CWRU.Edu (Dennis J. Templeton) Subject: Coiled tube manifold-fitting in an Igloo cooler Richard.Goldstein at EBay.Sun.COM described a coiled copper tubing manifold with slots cut into it... Your description is identical to the one I've been using for two years, and has appeared on HBD before all of the "T" fitting freaks appeared. Have at it. I'm writing mainly to point out that if you use 3/8 inch tubing, a 3/8 in bulkhead union (tube to tube) will fit snugly in the outlet of an Igloo cooler mashtun. One supplier: USA Plastics Fax # 419-228-5034 orders 800 537-9724 3/8 in polypropylene bulkhead union #61123, $1.20 (minimum order $10) One difference between your description and mine is the stand tube... I don't really understand why one is desirable (except in a RIMS) All I can see that doing is sucking air into the drain tube, leading to hot side aeration (Gasp!). Why not just let it trickle ad libitum?? have fun... dennis Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 9:16:58 PST From: alm at brewery.ht.intel.com (Al Marshall) Subject: Jeff Frane's Carapils/Dextrine info > "Carapils(R) (dextrine) malt has an almost completely "glassy" endosperm, no enzymatic activity and somewhat less extract than standard brewers malt. It greatly improves body, foam retention and beer stability without increasing color or changing beer flavor profile, through non-fermentable components. It is an elegant and inexpensive "natural" alternative to alginates. "Caramel malt also has an almost completely glassy endosperm, similar to Carapils. It yields various color intensities in the desirable golden-red hues. Standardized products in the 20 degree, 40d, 60d, 80d and 120d Lovibond colors are readily available. Other variations are custom-made upon request, volume permitting. Thanks a lot for this information. I've inferred from your malt-extract+specialties recipes that dextrine malt did not need to be mashed with other malts, and this (and one other piece I've seen) seems to be confirmation. I'm left to wonder about various other authorities that confidently state that dextrine malt needs to be mashed with enzymatic malts. Is there a property of dextrine malt that we haven't discussed? -- Al Marshall Return to table of contents
Date: 24 Mar 1993 08:16:20 U From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.edu> Subject: Towers Subject: Towers Time:7:51 AM Date:3/24/93 Sam Atkinson asks for feedback on the Owens-like Tower: I have a similar tower except I use another converted keg for a hot liquor tank with it's own burner so I don't need the pump. Gravity is certainly the way to go. My only caveat would be the use of Igloo brand coolers. I have a 52 quart Igloo which has made about 22 ten gallon batches. While it is still in use, the interior of the cooler has deformed considerably with time. In fact there were blisters evident after the very first batch. Other brewers who have Igloo coolers report the same results. I still use mine because in spite of the blisters there is no evidence of cracks in the plastic interior. Still, I think that Coleman coolers seem to stand up better to the heat of mashing. I took a survey of cooler users some time ago and the majority used Coleman. I expect I'll replace mine with a Coleman when the time comes. RW... Russ Wigglesworth (INTERNET: Rad_Equipment at radmac1.ucsf.edu - CI$: 72300,61) UCSF Dept. of Radiology, San Francisco, CA (415) 476-3668 / 474-8126 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 10:16:00 PST From: Patrick_Waara.WBST129 at xerox.com Subject: Thermostat placement in a freezer I just bought a new freezer to do my lagering and keg storage which I intend to control using my Hunter Airstat Monitor. I have a question, though, regarding the placement of the thermostat. (That is, the actual remote measuring piece of the thermostat on the end of the black wire.) When I put it on the wall of the freezer, it seemed to give me a false reading as the walls of the freezer are much colder than the actual air in it. I considered hanging it from the lid, but I'm afraid it might catch on the kegs when I lift the lid and tear off the wire. Where do people who use a freezer as their refrigerator place their thermostat? ~Pat Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 14:15 CST From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Carapils >From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane) >"Carapils(R) (dextrine) malt has an almost completely "glassy" endosperm, no enzymatic activity and somewhat less extract than standard brewers malt. It greatly improves body, foam retention and beer stability without increasing color or changing beer flavor profile... It is my opinion that this definition (like the one for Munich malt) does not apply to the D-K malt from Belgium. Furthermore, I do not understand the (R) or the dextrine designation. I would describe the D-K carapils as hard but chewy endosperm and anything but glassy. It furthermore has a flavor that is easily recognizable and contributes significantly to the flavor profile and in line with what I taste in an imported Pilsner. BTW, another spelling question. Pilsner or Pilsener or .....? js Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 14:18:18 cdt From: "Knight,Jonathan G" <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU> Subject: starters For the record, I've been using the yeast-starting advice given me by a friend who is a great homebrewer. I boil up one cup of DME in a little over a liter of water,ending up with between 750-1,000 ml's after boiling and cooling. I have no idea what S.G. this comes out to, but I do get absolutely great starts. However, for the sake of simplicity, I think Jack has the best idea - just save a pint from your last batch!! (all together now: "DUHHH!") Anything that saves me time making beer so I can spend more time enjoying the results, I'm in favor of. Jack, how careful are you about what kind of beer you save for starters? Have you ever used, say, an Imperial Stout for a starter for a Pilsener? Or do you always use less strongly-flavored worts for starters? Anyone else have experience with this method? Jonathan Knight Grinnell, Iowa Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 12:36:07 PST From: 24-Mar-1993 1526 <ide at studio.enet.dec.com> Subject: Culturing Duvel Yeast I'm planning to culture the yeast from a bottle of Duvel and I have a few questions: - Should I worry about mutation from the high alcohol content? - Does Moortgat use different yeasts for fermentation and bottle conditioning? - What are its characteristics, i.e. attenuation, esters, flavors? Any comments about Duvel and its yeast? This will be my first taste of this devilish brew and I'm really looking forward to it. Thanks for any help! Jamie Ide ide at studio.enet.dec.com Return to table of contents
Date: 24 Mar 1993 14:13:06 -0600 (CST) From: Robert Schultz <SCHULTZ at admin1.usask.ca> Subject: Re: Cider KILLING YEAST in/for CIDER: I think a better method to kill off the yeast is Potassium Sorbate, (as apposed to Campden tablets). Use about 1/2 tsp of Potassium Sorbate to 5 gal. Then adjust sweetness with apple juice if making cider...this kind of falls out of one of the recipes from the Cat's Meow II. If you want carbonation, you must do it with CO2. My last batch ended with FG 0.994. I added 12.5 oz of McCain frozen concentrate Apple juice and the 'new' FG was 1.000 -- could be a bit sweeter, but a few months of waiting may help ??? As for Jack Schmidling's comment about adding sugar until the yeast dies may not be a good idea... this is how high alcohol content ports are made....by adding small increments of sugar you are in effect conditioning the yeast (actually I think you kill off the week cells and continue the ferment with some of the stronger -- mutants?). The concentration of alcohol changes the taste (or how one perceives the taste) of the final product. Hope this helps. Robert Schultz ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I'm going off half-cocked? I'm going off half-cocked? ... Well, Mother was right - You can't argue with a shotgun." - Gary Larson ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 20:49:52 GMT From: u4imdmre at cpc41.cpc.usace.army.mil (Markham R. Elliott) Subject: Questions on priming with DME, and Warm climate brewing Hello all, I'm back with more novice-level questions and comments, looking for guidance & advice from those with the requisite skill level. In a mid-February posting, I asked for advice about 1.) Using a secondary fermentation vessel, and 2.) Recommendations about priming agents/amounts, and using a bottling bucket. Thanks to all who responded either here in the HBD or via private e-mail. By sifting through the advice, comments, recommendations, cautions and anecdotes, employing the secondary went off without a hitch, but using a DME/water solution as a priming agent just didn't cut it. Using the "most recommended" 1.25 cups boiled in water turned my "amber-clear" beer in the carboy into a cloudy mess. Once bottled, it took about 12 days to settle back out, and when I cracked the first bottle this past weekend, only a miniscule 'pffsssst'. The second, third, fourth and ..... bottles were'nt any fizzier. Two and a half cases of nearly flat beer. >:-( "Boo, Hiss", no, that should be "Boo, no Hiss". To add insult to injury, I've got the chill-haze blues too (first time ever). Papazian recommends for that flat beer, adding some dry yeast into each bottle, recapping & re-conditioning. I contend there was enough yeast present based on the activity of the original fermentation, and the sediment in the bottles. His second recommendation (after trying adding more yeast) is un-capping and adding sugar to each bottle. Gee, this was what I was trying to get away from by using another vessel to prime in & bottle from. At any rate, believe me, you can't add very much dry corn sugar to a semi-carbonated liquid! Talk about fluid dynamics!! (;->) I ended up dissolving the sugar into an equal amount of distilled water, boiling for a few seconds, cooling then adding .25 tsp to each of 6 bottles as a test. We'll see what happens in a week or 10 days. Was I supposed to do the "1-hour rolling-boil/hot-break/cold-break" routine to the DME/H2O priming solution too? Y'all suppose the chill haze came from the priming agent solution or simply because of bad technique while attempting my first syrup/DME batch? Should I attribute the lack of carbonation to a lower-than-expected sugar content of the DME? Some days I guess you just can't win for losing. Right now I'm gonna go home and mix me a flat homebrew with one that has "character" (Papazian's final recommendation). I just can't bring myself to feed my beer to the wife's Magnolia trees. A question for all you warm climate brewers out there: At what temperature do I have to put my toys away for the summer? Here in deepest Dixie, the daily temperatures are getting ready to skyrocket, and I will not be able to use the garage for brewing or conditioning, I suspect in just a couple of weeks or so. This past winter, I fermented everything under the sink in a spare bathroom where the ambient temperatures were fairly constant between, say, 67-72^F. The garage fluctuates too much from day to night, and from day to day to realistically depend on, though I had no qualms using it to cool, age and condition bottled brews. I customarily maintain the house between 75-82^F in the summer in order to keep the A/C bill within reason, and then crank up the ceiling fans. From what little I have read, I understand that the upper limit of acceptable fermentation temperatures is about 72^F. If I continue to ferment & condition at the higher temps, can I reasonablly expect ok results, given the fact I am still a novice extract-er? Frustrated, disappointed, but still hanging in there. Noch einmal, bitte!! Mark - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Markham R. Elliott u4imdmre at cpc41.cpc.usace.army.mil Information Technology Laboratory (601) 634-2921 Waterways Experiment Station Vicksburg, Mississippi USA - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 16:12:55 -0500 (EST) From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) Subject: brass,zymurgy,dark grains,chimay clone Lots of topics... First, I read in a health newsletter than *brass* fittings, ie. a brass spigot, especially when new, can leach lead into water. What is brass? Copper and ???. Re. Zymurgy special issues: I refer to the 1991 AHA Beer Styles issue quite a bit. Most articles are well written; not many errors. Dark grains in mash or mashout? Depends what you're looking for. If you want a hard bite, which I look for in a stout for example, put them in the mash. If you want it smoother, as in a dark lager, put them in the mashout. Rich S. is concerned about racking his Chimay clone to secondary after only 3 days. What temperature did it ferment at? What was the OG? What is the gravity now? 1 week primary and 3 weeks secondary seem like a longer time than should be necessary. My lastest batch, OG 1.045 fermented at 65 deg F with Chimay yeast, was ready in half that time. This was also yeast that was cultured from a bottle brought back from Belgium, so it may have been extra fresh and lively. But I'd say treat it as you would any other ale - it should finish in a couple of weeks. FWIW, a bunch of Bud drinkers had some of mine last night, and they liked it a lot. Go figure. Russ G. UNH Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 15:57:38 -0600 From: trl at photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965) Subject: Pete's Wicked Clone Robert Pulliam <pulliam at monty.rand.org> called for recipes a couple days ago... >Have any of you successfully cloned "Pete's Wicked Ale"? If so, I would >love to get your recipe. Well Robert, try this... 8# domestic 2-row 1# CaraMunich 1# CaraVienne 1# dark German 8 oz CaraPils 6 oz chocolate Mash-in 4 gallons at 57 C (135F) strike heat. Falls to 52C (126F). Protein rest 30 minutes. Raise to 68C (154F), Saccrification 2 hours. No mashout due to brain-cloud. You probably should Sparge with 6 gallons at 75C (167F) Got 7-1/2 ~ 7-3/4 gallons. Gravity is 1046. Extraction = 29.7 points/#/gallon. Boil 90 minutes. 4.4 aau Fuggles for 60 minutes, 4.4 aau Fuggles for 30 minutes, 5.2 aau Kent Goldings for 2 minutes. Chill to 25C (75F). OG = 1060. Pitch Wyeast 1098 If your extraction rates are routinely below mine, add grain accordingly in your recipe. Just add to the two-row, don't bother to adjust the specialty malts, its just not necessary. My water is fairly soft, and slightly alkaline. I use two tsp gypsum in my mash water. Your mileage, of course, may vary. If you want a 1055 beer, lose 1# of two-row. But I like mine at 1060. FG was 1018. I had to add 1/2 gallon water at bottling to bring volume up to 5 gallons. Let us know how it comes out... t Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 15:50:28 -0600 From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix) Subject: Whitbread Warning The following is my opinion of the situation described in Brian Cole's post in HBD#1104. Most of the lt. crystal malt I am familiar with has a carbohydrate structure loaded with 1-6 links. These will not be broken in a normal mash, regardless of when they were added. At the ~9% charge Brian reported, he should have gotten a nontrivial dextrin pool. It is very hard to get a good handle on things based on one batch, however I suspect the culprit may be the Whitbread yeast. The heat dried version is produced in the UK under license from the Whitbread Brewing Co. at a special yeast plant. This plant went out of production in 1991 because of a serious wild yeast infection. Production was just resumed in a new facility in January of this year. These products are only now being distributed to homebrew shops. The versions of the dry yeast available before say Mar. 1, 1993 were the old yeast. Reports that I have seen indicate that 25-35% of the old yeast had unacceptable levels of nonculture strains. The latter were super attenuators, and were reported to leave flavoring like Brian described. The old yeast also also had to be at least 1 1/2- 2 years in age. I have personally checked the new Whitbread yeast under a contract with Crosby and Baker. There was no pressure to "whitewash" defects, and in fact there was motivation the other way. C+B has a refusal clause with producers whereby they can return any yeast without charge if samples do not meet commercial standards with respect to both infections and viability. To make a long story short, the new Whitbread dry yeast passed with flying colors. My detailed report with plate counts will soon be available from C+B. It should be noted, however, that the "pure" (3 strain) Whitbread yeast will give characteristic tangy, fruity flavor tones. Some like these tones, while others react in a much different way to them. It looks to me like this is the start of a trend whereby a large number of the producers of dry yeast start to clean up their act. Data as reported in the Cal-Davis study (see Zymurgy's special yeast issue) may become a relic of the past. IMHO we all have the folks at Wyeast to thank for this. They were to first to set proper standards, which the others are now apparently trying to match. In a large number of cases when people complain that their beers are too dry and lack sweetness, some sort of infection (low, moderate, or high) seems to have played a part. Certainly the acid forming bacteria will make a beer seem thinner than normal and unpleasantly dry. Yeast like S. diastaticus will do this and at the same time leave medicinal/phenolic tones. The wild yeast that occasionally turned up in the old dry Whitbread yeast were apparently not as distructive. Nevertheless, if my conjectures are correct, Brian was done a disservice by the Whitbread folks in the UK. George Fix P.S. We were at a Pilsner tasting earlier this week. All the beers were German, and fresh (a real rarity for Texas). The two favorites were Konig Pils and Veltins. Both were very hoppy (IBU~35-40), and well attenuated with a distinct dry finish. Yet both were very malty and extremely smooth. The net effect was that they were very clean beers with highly attractive flavors. Thus a dry finish is not always undesirable. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 17:30:37 EST From: alan at math.sunysb.edu (Alan McRae) Subject: FOOD GRADE PLASTICS There has been some discussion recently about constructing electric boilers using plastic buckets. Since I only have 120V outlets and do not have access to any area where I could use a propane burner I have been using two Thorne Electrim Bims (2 are necessary since I start out with 7 gallons of wort to be boiled). These consist of a heating unit, a thermostat and a plastic bucket with a drum tap (these things are probably very similar to bruheat boilers). I think the bucket is either polyethylene or polypropolene (bruheat boilers use polypropolene). The question is this: What plastics are safe to use at boiling te! mperatures with beer? As an aside, I was told that people have had problems getting these Bims to even boil water. When I first got mine only one would boil water. I took the back off the thermostat of the one that would not boil water and adjusted the adjusting screw (Do not press down on the screw too hard!). Then I used strips of a foil-backed insulation (see the latest special issue of Zymurgy where Randy Mosher(?) tells how to insulate a lauter-tun) to insulate the buckets. These buckets will bring 3 1/2 gallons of 150 degree wort to a boil in less than half an hour: Not too great but better than nothing. By the way, these units work better if th! e back plate of the Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 15:27:59 -0800 (PST) From: Eric Wade <ericwade at CLASS.ORG> Subject: Dark grains at mashout Recent postings have advocated adding dark grains only at mashout. Should the bill for the dark grains be adjusted if they are added at mashout or use the same quantity as if they were added at mash in? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 17:28:47 EST From: Lee Menegoni <necis!lmenegon at transfer.stratus.com> Subject: Lager Starers / Starter SG In HBD 1100 J.Williamson indicated he had a long lag time when he tried to expand his culture from the Wyeast pak. Using the recommendation from Noonan's "Brewing Lager Beer" of pitching a large population of yeast into fermentation temp wort I took the following steps and had vigorous fermentation in 45F wort in less than 12 hours. The intent of this procedure is twofold 1) produce a large volume of yeast slurry 2) acclimate the yeast to the fermentation temp to minimize shock. Day 1: Pop Wyeast Bohemian Lager yeast pak at room temp 70F 8:00 AM Day 2: Pitch the Wyeast pak contents with 12oz of 65F 20sg wort 7:00PM Day 3: Add an additional 12oz of 60F 20sg wort 7:00PM Day 4: Pour of 2/3 of liquid, add 24oz of 55F 20sg wort 7:00PM Day 5: Day 6: Pour off 2/3 of liquid, add 24oz of 50F 20sg wort 7:00PM Day 7: Pour off 2/3 of liquid, add 24 oz of 45F 20sg wort 10:00AM And on the sevent day he brewed. And when the day was done he looked at his wort and (hoped) it was good. I pitched all the liquid and the slurry into the 45F wort at about 10PM I checked the brew the next morning and it had a thin milky film over it with bubbles coming out of the S airlock every few seconds. Notes: Day 1 - 3 the starter bottle was left in my 65F basement wrapped in 2 towels and put inside a cooler. Days 4 - 7 the starter was in my temp controlled refridgerator. By leaving some liquid with each step the temp changes are a bit more gradual also there is a substantial population in the liquid. I always make starters with 20 - 25sg wort. I produce this starter liquid by half filling 2 gallon bottles with trub from a brewing session. I then fill these bottles with very cold water and let them settle. I rack off the clear liquid from the two jugs and por pour it in to 12oz bottles, other people I know use canning jars, I then immerse these bottles in water and heat until the contents of them are 190 - 200F. I maintain this temp for 10 - 15 minutes and cap. This gives me a ready supply of 1/2 gravity wort for starters and I don't feel so bad about leaving stuff behind when I rack off the trub since It gets used. I target a 6 gallon batch so I end up with about 5 gallons going in the keg. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 15:49:38 -0500 From: Nick Zentena <zen%hophead at canrem.com> Subject: Niagra/Buffalo or even Rochester beer retailers? Hi, Considering the less then exciting range of imported beers currently available in the Toronto area I'm thinking of making a run south of the border. 1) Does anybody know of any retailers in hopefully the Niagara/Buffalo that carry some interesting Lambics?[Currently only Morte Subite gueze is available locally] Hopefully something unfiltered. At worse how about Rochester? 2) Does anybody know the name of the US importer(s) for the better lambics? 3) How expensive are these products in the US? Thanks Nick Mail would be best. ***************************************************************************** I drink Beer I don't collect cute bottles! zen%hophead at canrem.com ***************************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 19:03:18 -0600 (CST) From: brewmstr at genesis.mcs.com (Jim Bayer) Subject: Hops and submersion chiller? I've been rereading TNCJOHB because I'm shortly going to mash (this weekend) and I ran across some info that I never caught before. It says that you should always seperate the hops from the wort before cooling it. If this is true, how do I use an immersion chiller? I don't recall anyone I've ever heard of straining out the hops or removing the wort from the brewpot before they used a submersion chiller. Do I need a hopback setup or what? Jim - ------------------------------------------------------------------ | Remember: Brewing is not a matter of life and death. | | It is much more important than that! | |=============================================================== | | Jim Bayer -> Chicago, my kind of town! The windy city | | brewmstr at ddsw1.mcs.com 72416.1044 at compuserve.com | - ------------------------------------------------------------------ Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1105, 03/25/93