FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  whitbread warning, part 3 (donald oconnor)
  Riverside Garage & Brewery (Chuck Cox)
  Cold Plate, pH (Jack Schmidling)
  chilling wort (John Edens)
  Re: Immersion chiller (Carl West)
  Hard (Lager) Cider? (Philip J Difalco)
  is it beer? (Philip J Difalco)
  Is it beer? (Philip J Difalco)
  Hard (Lager) eider (Philip J Difalco)
  Is it beer? (Philip J Difalco)
  Honey Wheat recipe (Ted Manahan)
  Canned Guiness (Ron Natalie)
  Chimay: types and clones... (Corby Bacco)
  Filtering beer ("Bob Jones")
  Mashing temps ("Bob Jones")
  Malted Rocks (Norm Pyle)
  Sake (Corby Bacco)
  3 micron filters; New Orleans (George J Fix)
  Yeast Culturing Equipment (Eric Wade)
  Carboy vs plastic bucket (Steve Kenshulo)
  Beer Bread method (pretzels too!) (Mark Taratoot)
  The State of Beer in New Mexico (Michael L. Hall)
  hops primer (Russ Gelinas)
  cold break and blowoff questions (Kirk Anderson)
  Bandwidth (korz)
  sparge water acidification (Davin Lim)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 01:46:01 -0500
From: oconnor at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (donald oconnor)
Subject: whitbread warning, part 3


There seems to be some confusion regarding the availability of the new 
Whitbread dry yeast.  George Fix mistakenly believes Crosby and Baker is 
presently distributing the new Whitbread to homebrew shops.  They are 
not but hope to make it available in 2 or 3 months.  Additionally, Crosby 
and Baker is not currently distributing the Australian yeast, Mauri.

George reports the use of an actidione test to check for wild yeast.  The 
basis of this culture test is the same as all culture tests;  to prepare a 
medium on which the culture yeast cannot grow but contaminating yeasts 
can.  Like all other culture methods it's limitation lies in the fact that many
 wild yeast contaminants common to breweries are quite similar to the 
culture yeast.  If you inhibit the culture yeast, you often inhibit the wild 
yeast.  In the actidione test, the wild yeasts are broken into 2 subsets--
those that are more resistant to actidione and those that are less resistant.  
George apparently drew the line as fine as possible by using the minimal 
('incremental') amount of actidione.  This approach has been in the 
literature for at least a quarter of a century.  George reports wild yeast 
counts are less than 1 in 10 million culture cells.  A more accurate 
statement would be that wild yeasts which are more resistant to actidione 
than the culture yeast are less than 1 in 10 million.  It's impossible to say 
what the overall level of wild yeast contamination is based on this test 
alone.

For those interested, there was an article in Journal of the Am Soc Brewing 
Chemists a few issues ago in which the relative merits of the culture tests 
were compared.  Each of the culture methods individually misses many 
wild yeasts.

George Fix suggests the old Whitbread might be contaminated, perhaps by 
a dextrin consuming yeast, S. diastaticus.  S diastaticus may well be a 
common contaminant of dry yeast because it is a pastry yeast and as far as 
I know every dry yeast processor makes oodles more bread and pastry 
yeast than brewers yeast.  There is a culture test for S. diastaticus but the 
easiest method of determining if it is NOT there is simply to make some 
beer.  S. diastaticus and many other wild yeasts make beer with the 
characteristic 'medicinal' taste.  The compound responsible for this flavor 
can be easily detected by running the beer through a gas chromatograph 
and also, as we all know, by merely sniffing the beer.  This is just one 
example of the value of sensory tests.  Sensory tests are not only easier 
and practical but often more reliable than culture tests, particularly 
limited culture methods.  It would seem that George Fix is also of this 
opinion based on the following quote from his book.  "Perhaps the best 
way to detect yeast disorders is by examining their by-products and the 
resulting alteration of beer flavors."  George may have only been referring 
to respiratory-deficient mutants at this point which is yet another common 
problem of dry yeasts.  There is a reasonable hypothesis that respiratory 
deficient mutants (aka petite mutants) are an inherent problem of large 
scale commercial production.

The value of any test is diminished by distance and time from the 
brewery, in this case the homebrewery.  The viability of dry yeast is one 
area where this can be easily recognized.  It's not surprising that freshly 
dried yeast is still viable.  The far more pertinent issue for the 
homebrewer is the viability in 6 months, a year or 2 years.  Of course the 
history of the yeast packet has a lot to do with answering this question, 
but a dated package would surely help the homebrewer.

Since the new Whitbread is not even available yet to homebrewers, it's 
impossible to perform the culture tests and sensory evaluations on packets 
of the yeast directly relevant to homebrewers.  It may well turn out that 
the new Whitbread is an improvement over the old and also a good clean 
yeast, but George's data is simply too limited and too removed from the 
point at which the yeast will be used by homebrewers to reach that 
conclusion now.

Finally, I have heard that the new Whitbread is in fact not the old 
Whitbread at all.  The old Whitbread was a mix of three strains.  The 
rumor is that the new Whitbread is a single strain.  Perhaps George or 
someone else can confirm or refute this.

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 21:36:06 EST
From: chuck at synchro.com (Chuck Cox)
Subject: Riverside Garage & Brewery

Introducing the Internet's SECOND garage & brewery.

The Riverside Garage & Brewery, the new home of SynchroSystems, the
Silent But Deadly electric autocrosser, and Brain Death Barleywine, is
now open for business.  Located in (the Peoples's Republic of)
Cambridge, Massachusetts, just above the flood level of the Charles
River, and just minutes from the Plough & Stars and the Sunset Grill &
Tap. 

Garage available for emergencies, futon available for guests, beer
available for any occasion. 

- -- 
Chuck Cox   <chuck at synchro.com>
The Bill of Rights is not available ala carte.



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 08:54 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Cold Plate, pH

 
 >From: SWEENERB at memstvx1.memst.edu
 >Subject: kegging using a beer chiller
  
 >Is it possible to use these kegs by connecting up a beer chiller like the 
 one displayed in the recent Gadgets issue of zymurgy--basically a copper tube 
 running through an ice bucket through which the beer flows?
 
 At the risk of boring the regular readers, herewith my program to stamp out 
 refrigerators........
 
 Presuming that you do not keep your beer in a hot attic, you can chill it as 
 you dispense it with several gadgets, including the one you mentioned.  The 
 cooler the keg is kept, the longer it will last but in typical basement 
 temps, the keg will be long gone before it spoils from the heat alone.
 
 There is however a far better device for home use than the coil type chiller.  
 First of all, I would not use copper for the coil and all the commercial 
 producers use stainless tubing to keep the greedy lawyers at bay.
 
 The device of choice is called a cold plate.  It consists of a serpentine of 
 very narrow ss tubing, imbeded in a cast aluminum plate with in and out 
 fittings.
 
 The plate is placed in a dish pan and hooked up between the keg and the tap.  
 Ice cubes are dumped on the plate and voila, cold beer.  Two cups of ice will 
 chill several glasses of beer, depending on the ambient temp.
 
 I have mine hooked up so that I can direct it to my counter-flow bottle 
 filler and it does a great job.
 
 The major advantage of the plate over the coil job is that it only holds 
 about an ounce of beer and requires far less ice.  You would typically purge 
 the beer from the line between periods of non usage and the coils can hold a
 lot of beer. 
 
 On the other hand, for a picnic or large party the coil configuration would 
 be more efficient.
 
 For more information on cold plates and other beer type gadgets, you can get 
 a free catalog from Superior Products by calling 800 328 9800.
 
 >From: ""Robert C. Santore"" <rsantore at mailbox.syr.edu>
 >Subject: RE: HOP ALPHA ACID
 
 <Keep in mind the logarithmic nature of the pH scale.  In the
 'real world' this difference in pH amounts to:
 
 (10^-6.2)/(10^-6.6) = 2.5 times the amount of free H in the Chinook tea
 
 I can't find my old slide rule nor a log table and it does seems a bit simple 
 minded to assume that if 1 unit equals ten then .4 must equal 4.  Thank you.
 
  > The only significant anomaly was that on the third day, the
  > pH of both teas dropped to 5.7.  They had been left
  > uncovered throughout the period but something significant
  > happened overnight of the third day.
 
 <Distilled water in equilibrium with atmospheric CO2 has a pH of 5.6!
 Microbial action is also a possibility if the pH change was sudden.
 
 Sounds like I am reinventing the wheel.
 
  > In conclusion, if the results are the product of Alpha Acid
  > in the hops then it should be possible to work out formulae
  > to determine the approximate AA of hops or at least
  > determine how much of an unknown hop is required to achieve
  > the same pH of a known hop.
 
 <You may have something there, but I wonder what other types of
 acids might be present in hops that produce no flavor components.
 Ultimately we don't want to know the total acidity that the hops
 can produce in our beers, but the specific quantities of a particular
 class of acidic compounds.
 
 Maybe we should redefine what I was trying to learn.  As I recall, the whole 
 notion of AAU and bittering units is a fiction created to help duplicate a 
 given bitterness so as to make consistant beer.  It produces a formula to 
 guide the brewer in knowing how much hops to put in the kettle and what that 
 number is based on is of little interest to the brewer as long as he gets an 
 accurate number from the suplier to plug into his formula.
 
 If another set of guidlines, that give the same results but based on a 
 totally unscientific use of a pH meter, that anyone can purchase, it would be 
 boon.
 
 I doubt that we could keep the producers honest by faulting the numbers on 
 their packages but I am thinking more along the lines of helping the home 
 grower of hops who hasn't a clue.
 
 js

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 13:44:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: John Edens <johne at sa-htn.valmet.com>
Subject: chilling wort

I think I might be missing something in the discussion. I have a wort chiller
made of about 15 to 20 ft of copper tubing that I run cold water through
to cool the approximately two gallons of wort in my brewpot.

I have always assumed that since I am going to dilute the wort with cold water
to bring the volume up to five gallons, I only need cool the wort to 100
degrees F, or 40 degrees C for our European and Canadian readers. I 
haven't noticed any bad results from this. My standard procedure is to siphon
the wort out. What would happen if I just poured the cooled wort from the
brewpot into the primary, skipping the siphon. I know that a lot of the
leftover clumps of protein and hop residue would get in that would
otherwise be left behind. Anything else?


John



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Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 11:47:29 EDT
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: Re: Immersion chiller


Andy says:
>I think you would want the exiting water to be warmer for a given
>length of tubing.  The amount of heat removed from the wort should be:
>	(delta q) = m*Cp*(delta T)
>where 	m=mass flow rate of water
>	Cp=heat capacity
>	(dealta T)=temperature difference=Tout-Tin
>So, if the flow rate increases, the heat removed increases, and if the
>temperature difference increases, the heat removed increases.

You're OK until you define delta T, the delta T that is important here 
is T-wort - T-water at each point along the chiller. 

To keep this delta T high you need to keep T-water as low as possible, 
if T-out is high then the delta T through the wall of the copper tubing 
is low for the last part of the chiller, wasting cooling potential.

If you want to cool the wort as quickly as possible, you want the chiller 
to be as cold as possible for as much of its length as possible, the way 
to do that is to run as much water through it as possible, starting as cold 
as possible. 

Stirring helps. On both sides of the copper. It might help to install a 
wiggly wire through the length of the chiller to cut down on laminar flow 
through the tubing.

I believe the whole problem is really quite simple, it's alot like putting 
ice into a glass of soda, more ice cools it faster.

Carl

When I stop learning, bury me.

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Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 11:01:10 -0400
From: Philip J Difalco <sxupjd at anubis.fnma.COM>
Subject: Hard (Lager) Cider?


GOAL:
To make a Hard Cider?

PLAN:
I made a 1 quart yeast starter from Wyeast #2112, a California Steam Beer
Lager Yeast (that ferments well up to 62^F).
I added the starter to 3/4 gallon of Apple Cider, affixed an airlock, and
it's now fermenting in my basement (at 60^F).

QUESTIONS:
1) How long should I excpect the fermentation process to last?
2) What would an ideal fermenting temp. be for such a concoction?
3) Is my result going to be a Hard Cider, or a (strange) Lager Beer?
4) I plan on conditioning the fermented result with either 1/6 cup of Corn
   Sugar, or 1 to 2 cups of Apple Cider - and then bottle it.  First of all,
   is it necessary to do this conditioning?  If it is, what ingredient is best,
   and how much should I use (for a 1 gallon batch)?
5) How long will such a (lager) cider last in bottled form?
6) Should I have submitted this query to rec.crafts.pyrotechnics?


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 13 Apr 93 10:02:39 -0400
From: Philip J Difalco <sxupjd at anubis.fnma.COM>
Subject: is it beer?


Now what did I do now?

I decided to stray from dry (Ale) yeasts, and start using liquid
yeasts.  My first endeavor is with the California Steam Beer
Lager Yeast - Wyeast #2112, which is to ferment well up to 62^F.

I also decided to stretch out this supply.  I made a 1/2 gallon
starter, and then bottled it (making 6 samples).

Before making a foray into a 5 gallon batch of Steam Beer,
I thought I'd make a 1 gallon test-batch of something - to
test out my yeast-stretching attempt, and to gaurd against
potentially wasting a 5 gallon investment of beer ingredients.

First, I made a 1 quart starter from one of the bottled yeast
samples.  After the starter was ready, I made a test wort. 

My test batch consisted of about 1.5 lbs of light DME, 3/8 oz.
of Northern Brewer Hops, 4 oz. Clover Honey and 2 oz. peach
marmalade - all boiled for about 45 mins.  This yielded about
1 1/4 gallons of wort (I never took an SG reading).
After the wort cooled, I added the starter and wort to a gallon
jug, affixed an air-lock, and placed it in the basement (at 60^F).
I got good blow-off the first day and a half.  It's been almost 6
days now and the beer is still actively fermenting (bubble apprx.
every 15s).

QUESTIONS:
1) This is my first attempt at a lager.  I've never seen fermentation
   this active after 6 days.  Is this because it's only a 1 gallon
   batch, or is this because of the qualities of a lager yeast?
2) Wyeast #2112 is supposed to ferment well to 62^F, but would it
   hurt to put this in a colder environment (my firdge)?
3) I'm not planning on bottling until the apparent fermentation ceases, 

   or 3 weeks have elapsed, which ever is soonest - is this wise?
4) What should I call the resulting beer?

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 15:48:13 -0400
From: Philip J Difalco <sxupjd at anubis.fnma.COM>
Subject: Is it beer?


Now what did I do now?

I decided to stray from dry (Ale) yeasts, and start using liquid
yeasts.  My first endeavor is with the California Steam Beer
Lager Yeast - Wyeast #2112, which is to ferment well up to 62^F.

I also decided to stretch out this supply.  I made a 1/2 gallon
starter, and then bottled it (making 6 samples).

Before making a foray into a 5 gallon batch of Steam Beer,
I thought I'd make a 1 gallon test-batch of something - to
test out my yeast-stretching attempt, and to gaurd against
potentially wasting a 5 gallon investment of beer ingredients.

First, I made a 1 quart starter from one of the bottled yeast
samples.  After the starter was ready, I made a test wort. 
My test batch consisted of about 1.5 lbs of light DME, 3/8 oz.
of Northern Brewer Hops, 4 oz. Clover Honey and 2 oz. peach
marmalade - all boiled for about 45 mins.  This yielded about
1 1/4 gallons of wort (I never took an SG reading).
After the wort cooled, I added the starter and wort to a gallon
jug, affixed an air-lock, and placed it in the basement (at 60^F).
I got good blow-off the first day and a half.  It's been almost 6
days now and the beer is still actively fermenting (bubble apprx.
every 15s).

QUESTIONS:
1) This is my first attempt at a lager.  I've never seen fermentation
   this active after 6 days.  Is this because it's only a 1 gallon
   batch, or is this because of the qualities of a lager yeast?
2) Wyeast #2112 is supposed to ferment well to 62^F, but would it
   hurt to put this in a colder environment (my firdge)?
3) I'm not planning on bottling until the apparent fermentation ceases, 
   or 3 weeks have elapsed, which ever is soonest - is this wise?
4) What should I call the resulting beer?


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 15:44:46 -0400
From: Philip J Difalco <sxupjd at anubis.fnma.COM>
Subject: Hard (Lager) eider


GOAL:
To make a Hard Cider?

PLAN:
I made a 1 quart yeast starter from Wyeast #2112, a California Steam Beer
Lager Yeast (that ferments well up to 62^F).
I added the starter to 3/4 gallon of Apple Cider, affixed an airlock, and
it's now fermenting in my basement (at 60^F).

QUESTIONS:
1) How long should I excpect the fermentation process to last?
2) What would an ideal fermenting temp. be for such a concoction?
3) Is my result going to be a Hard Cider, or a (strange) Lager Beer?
4) I plan on conditioning the fermented result with either 1/6 cup of Corn
   Sugar, or 1 to 2 cups of Apple Cider - and then bottle it.  First of all,
   is it necessary to do this conditioning?  If it is, what ingredient is best,
   and how much should I use (for a 1 gallon batch)?
5) How long will such a (lager) cider last in bottled form?
6) Should I have submitted this query to rec.crafts.pyrotechnics?


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 09:13:45 -0400
From: Philip J Difalco <sxupjd at anubis.fnma.COM>
Subject: Is it beer?


Now what did I do now?

I decided to stray from dry (Ale) yeasts, and start using liquid
yeasts.  My first endeavor is with the California Steam Beer
Lager Yeast - Wyeast #2112, which is to ferment well up to 62^F.

I also decided to stretch out this supply.  I made a 1/2 gallon
starter, and then bottled it (making 6 samples).

Before making a foray into a 5 gallon batch of Steam Beer,
I thought I'd make a 1 gallon test-batch of something - to
test out my yeast-stretching attempt, and to gaurd against
potentially wasting a 5 gallon investment of beer ingredients.

First, I made a 1 quart starter from one of the bottled yeast
samples.  After the starter was ready, I made a test wort. 

My test batch consisted of about 1.5 lbs of light DME, 3/8 oz.
of Northern Brewer Hops, 4 oz. Clover Honey and 2 oz. peach
marmalade - all boiled for about 45 mins.  This yielded about
1 1/4 gallons of wort (I never took an SG reading).
After the wort cooled, I added the starter and wort to a gallon
jug, affixed an air-lock, and placed it in the basement (at 60^F).
I got good blow-off the first day and a half.  It's been almost 6
days now and the beer is still actively fermenting (bubble apprx.
every 15s).

QUESTIONS:
1) This is my first attempt at a lager.  I've never seen fermentation
   this active after 6 days.  Is this because it's only a 1 gallon
   batch, or is this because of the qualities of a lager yeast?
2) Wyeast #2112 is supposed to ferment well to 62^F, but would it
   hurt to put this in a colder environment (my firdge)?
3) I'm not planning on bottling until the apparent fermentation ceases, 

   or 3 weeks have elapsed, which ever is soonest - is this wise?
4) What should I call the resulting beer?


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 07:36:58 pdt
From: Ted Manahan <tedm at hpcvcbp.cv.hp.com>
Subject: Honey Wheat recipe
Full-Name: Ted Manahan


   Don Leonard is looking for a honey wheat beer recipe. I have one 
   that I have been quite happy with. This recipe originated as an 
   attempt to take advantage of a sale on Brewmaker beer kits at our 
   local homebrew supply store. Here it is:

   Soak: 
	6 oz 20L crystal malt
	2 oz chocolate malt
   in water while heating. Remove malt when water reaches 170F. After
   the water boils, remove from heat and add
	3.2 lb can Brewmaker Export Beer kit
	3.3 lb can Munton & Fison Wheat malt extract
	1 lb honey
	1 t brewing salts (optional - my water is quite soft)
   Bring to a boil. Hop schedule is as follows:
	45 minutes: 0.5 oz 5.7 alpha Northern Brewer
	20 minutes: 0.5 oz 5.5 alpha Cascade
	 5 minutes: 1.0 oz 5.5 alpha Cascade
   Force cool with immersion chiller, pitch Steinbarts ale yeast in a 1
   quart starter. After one week, rack to secondary. After one more
   week, rack to a keg and dry hop (in a bag) with 0.5 oz Cascade.

   OG=1.050	FG=1.020

   A few notes: 
     0) This produces a complex, brown beer with a lot of flavor. Dry
	hopping in the keg really makes a lot of difference in the hop
	aroma!
     1) The OG reading seems a bit low, but I have gotten it twice. 
	I also got 1.064 once using John Bull hopped extract instead 
	of the Brewmaker kit. I suspect the Brewmaker kits of 
	contributing less fermentable material than the "name brand" 
        extracts. Another factor is that I am probably not consistent in
	the amount of honey I use.
     2) I don't remember if I crushed the crystal and chocolate or not.
     3) Steinbarts ale yeast is a mutant form of Wyeast Chico ale yeast.

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 12:42:41 -0400
From: Ron Natalie <ron at topaz.bds.com>
Subject:  Canned Guiness

We've got it here (Washington, DC).  I picked some up because there was an
article in Advanced Imaging last year about the can construction (the imaging
tie-in was that a vision system was used to inspect the construction of
the cans).  The cans have a plastic button in the bottom that releases
gas into the can after it is open (to simulate how it would be if it
just came from a tap).  It's a cute gimmick.  I don't know, I don't care
for the stuff myself.

 -Ron (Never drink anything you can't see through).




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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 10:21:01 -0600
From: cbacco at ursa5.cs.utah.edu (Corby Bacco)
Subject: Chimay: types and clones...

Greetings all,
     I just had a friend bring me a bottle of Chimay (it's difficult
to find in Utah) and was wondering which type it was.  Miller mentions
Chimay having three different colored caps (red, white, and blue) for 
different styles and Papazian mentions Belgian ales typically being done
in three styles (House brew, double, and triple).  I was wondering which
was which.  The bottle I have has a red cap.

     Also, now that I've finally gotten a bottle of Chimay I couldn't
resist the temptation to try and brew with the yeast from the bottle.
I popped open the bottle last night, put the yeast into a starter and 
then throughly enjoyed the Chimay (good stuff!).  I was planning on using
Miller's all grain recipe for brewing Chimay.  Has anyone used this
and care to offer advice/modifications?

       Thanks in advance,
                   Corby Bacco (aka Brother Bacchus, 
                                    Trappist monk in training)

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 09:18:05 PST  
From: "Bob Jones" <bjones at novax.llnl.gov>
Subject: Filtering beer

John Isenhour spoke about his efforts at filtering beer in the last digest.
John the reason your beer didn't filter well is probably due to colloidal
haze 
particals. These haze particals and proteins must connect together to form a
large enough partical to filter out. The best way to do this is to chill the
beer to 32 deg f for at least a week. If you can't get to 32 deg f then as
cold as you can get it. I have filered beer with a .5 um filter and not
improved the clarity! The quantity of these colloidal hazes is very dependent
on the malt quality. After I switched to GW malt (from Breiss) my beers are
much clearer before filtering. I also think I have noticed some head
problems 
with the .5um filtration. I am planning a split batch filtration vs no
filtration to prove this to myself. I'll post the results.

Bob Jones

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 08:29:34 PST  
From: "Bob Jones" <bjones at novax.llnl.gov>
Subject: Mashing temps

I was amused by Carl J. Appellof's comments about what Michael Lewis at UC
Davis said about mashing American grain. I have heard him say just the
opposite! I sometimes think that Lewis loves to "tweak" people about the
opposite of what they think is the only way to do something. He IS a teacher
and this challenge to his students is a good idea. However, he seems to take
it to the extreme. Cases in point. I have personally heard him say all of
the following. "We here at Davis have never noticed anything (flavor or
aromatic) from dry hoping", "decoction mashing is silly, our modern day
malts only need a single mash temperature for complete conversion", and on
and on. I would love to hear comments from students at Davis on Mr. Lewis's
teaching techniques. From what I've heard and seen I'm not to impressed. He
however does have an excellent staff! Mary Maranda is one of those that is
overshadowed by Lewis and under recognized, IMHO.

Bob Jones

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 10:58:46 MDT
From: pyle at intellistor.com (Norm Pyle)
Subject: Malted Rocks

All this frivolity about malted rocks has me worried.  My father-in-law and I
have put many hours into building a nice motor driven mill and I really don't
want to crush any rocks, or have any rocks crush my mill.  Any great
suggestions for a sieve to filter out large rocks?  With 10+ pounds of grain
it is impractical to find them by hand.  I haven't, BTW, found any rocks in
the American or British malt I've used so far, but I've only done about 5
all-grain batches.  The Zymurgy grain mill avoids major damage by rocks by
holding the rollers with engine valve springs.  I, on the other hand, skipped
this option and am now wondering if I should regret that decision...

Cheers,
Norm

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 11:24:13 -0600
From: cbacco at ursa5.cs.utah.edu (Corby Bacco)
Subject: Sake

Hello,
	I have a friend who wants me to make a sake for him.  Does anyone
have any recipes or recommend any sources for this beverages?


			Thanks,
			      Corby

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 10:56:18 -0500
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: 3 micron filters; New Orleans

John Isenhour asked in HBD#1120 about the availability of filter cartridges.
I got my 3 micron filter several years ago from Zahm+Nagel in Buffalo.
Their phone number is 716-833-1532. Ask for Al Lap. Their products are
designed for commercial operations, and are priced accordingly.

Discussions with Jim Busch and others have convinced me that the 5 micron 
filters available to homebrewers can do just as good a job as the more 
expensive versions. Perhaps Jim can give us a review at the appropriate
point of his own experiences.

George Fix

P.S. I hope those attending the IOB conference in New Orleans will look me
up. Conrad Keys has informed me that he will be there with the first 
production version of his RIMS system.



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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 10:38:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Eric Wade <ericwade at CLASS.ORG>
Subject: Yeast Culturing Equipment

Thanks to those who replied to my request for sources (mail-order and
otherwise) of lab glassware, etc. for yeast culturing.  I've contacted the
following four companies and requested their catalogs.  I haven't received
them yet so I can't determine if they have what I want nor how good their
prices are.

Cole Parmer (708) 647-7600.
Friedrich & Dimmock (800) 628-2629
Chiron (800) 776-9154
Sigma (800) 325-3010

Notes:  I believe I've seen Cole Parmer mentioned on the HBD before. Dean
Lee, who sent me info on Sigma, says they are good about dealing with
indviduals, will take credit card orders, etc.  Chiron sells products from
more than one manufacturer and they want to know which manufacturer's
catalog you want.  Their catalogs list case prices but you can call them
for prices on lesser quantities. 

In all cases I identified myself as an individual who does yeast
culturing at home; none of them had any problem with the fact that I wasn't
a large corporate or university client. 

For local sources:  See if your local library (or employer, check with the
procuement department) has a copy of the Thomas Register.  It is an
enormous catalog of industrial services and supplies.  See volume 7,
pp. 12,781+ "Glassware:Laboratory".  Entries are listed geographically. 

Finally, I know that yeast culturing can be done in beer bottles, milk
bottles, wine jugs, etc. (I've got two 1/2 pt. milk bottles myself), I
just like the toys and catalogs, you never know what you'll come across!

Repeat request:  Any good sources of Belgian beers in the SF bay area,
esp. east bay?

Eric Wade
<ericwade at class.org>



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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 10:54:33 PDT
From: steve_kenshulo at csufresno.edu (Steve Kenshulo)
Subject: Carboy vs plastic bucket


     What are some of the pros and cons of using a carboy instead
of a plastic bucket? Most of the kits I see for beginers use a 6-7
gallon bucket, but a lot of "old-timers" use a carboy?

     Buy the way, I am thinking on buying a few extra fermentation
vessels and the price is about the same around here.

     Thanks in advance,
     Steve Kenshalo
     skenshul at mondrian.csufresno.edu

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Date: 15 Apr 1993 12:08:07 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mark Taratoot <SLNDW at CC.USU.EDU>
Subject: Beer Bread method (pretzels too!)

Greetings.

There was some talk a while back about making beer bread and several
recipies and ideas were exchanged.  Since then I have been doing 
a bit of experimenting on my own and have come up with a
pretty good method.

Beer has been called liquid bread.  I feel bread could also be
called solid beer :)  Indeed they are similar in their ingredients.  
There is nothing like enjoying a "slice" of liquid bread with a
"hunk" of solid ale!  Below are methods for making pretzels
and bread from beer dregs.  They are quite tasty! 
  
I used to dump out the yeast cake from my fermenters onto
my compost pile.  My philosophy was that if more of the
yeasts I like live in my environment, then if I get an infection
in my beer, it is more likely to be a "beer friendly" yeast.
I thought it would be a good idea to let the yeat live again
and so I modified the L.A. Times pretzel article that was 
posted previously.  The method is:

1.  After siphoning off beer (to bottle/keg) swirl carboy around 
really hard to get as much of the yeast cake into suspension as
possible.  Pour it into a jar (to save the yeast to use within
the next few days) or a bowl (to use immediately).

2.  Add a bit more beer or other liquid to the carboy (dregs from 
bottles work fine).  Swish this around and get the last of the yeast.

3.  Add more liquid as needed (the more liquid you add, the larger 
the batch)

4.  Add just a bit of sugar or honey.

5.  Add flour to get the propper consistency (for pretzels, I
have found that 2 cups liquid to 4 cups flour works.  I use
half whole wheat and half unbleached white flour.)
	5b. If you add an egg, it will rise more.

6.  Knead.   Allow to rise until doubled in volume.  Knead again.

7.  Roll into "snakes" and form pretzels.  Put on greased tray.

8.  Brush with one of the following, then sprinkle with salt if 
desired:
		Egg (shiny rich crust)
		Milk (crispy)
		Butter (soft)
		Nothing (easy)

9.  Bake at 400 degrees for 10 minutes (approx) until just golden.


Pretzels are yummy and are a great idea for a homebrew club
meeting.  However, they are best eaten right away and they don't
save well.


Making bread from beer dregs is also very simple:

Follow steps 1-4 above.   I like to make large batches of bread
so I can get 3-4 loaves from one breadmaking endevour.

5.  Add 2 cups flour (I use whole wheat) and let sit for half hour.

6.  Add "stuff" (1-2 tsp salt, 1/3 cup melted butter or oil,
1/3 cup sugar or honey, and up to a couple of cups of the 
following: nuts, seeds, spent grains, etc.) and mix well. 

7.  Add more flour a little at a time (again, I use mostly whole wheat, 
but if you like white bread, use unbleached white flour) until the 
dough is firm.  

8.  Turn out onto a floured board and knead for 15 minutes adding
flour until the dough is not sticky.

9.  Put in oiled bowl and allow to rise, then knead again for
another 15 minutes.

10. Form loaves.  I like round loaves, so that's what I make.  
For loaf pans, grease them, for round loaves, sprinkle a tray
with corn meal and put loaves on trays.  Allow to rise again.

11. When doubled in volume, brush with melted butter (or other
items listed above for different crusts) and bake at about 375
for 30-40 minutes.

12. Allow to cool 10-30 minutes, then enjoy.


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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 12:20:34 MDT
From: mlh at cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov (Michael L. Hall)
Subject: The State of Beer in New Mexico

Strangely enough, there have been several requests of late about what there is
to do in New Mexico with regards to beer. Even more peculiar is that I had
gotten all of my info together before these requests came out :-)

Anyway, I have taken it upon myself to be the keeper (at least for now) of the
"New Mexico Brewing FAQ". In it I catalog anything that has to do with both New
Mexico and brewing/beer. I will send it out to anyone who requests it by email
(my address is <hall at lanl.gov>). Here is the table of contents:

Contents:

1. Commercial Beer Establishments

    Albuquerque
    Santa Fe
    Los Alamos
    Taos
    Elsewhere
    
2. Homebrew Clubs

    Albuquerque
    Los Alamos
    Close to NM
    
3. Judges in NM

4. Competitions
    
5. Homebrew Supplies

6. Publications

7. Other
    
I think that this would be a good idea in other states too (or smaller areas,
e.g. "The San Francisco Bay Area FAQ"). Maybe someone in each state would
volunteer to keep track of all the info in his/her state.

Mike Hall
The Los Alamos Atom Mashers
hall at lanl.gov

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Date:    Thu, 15 Apr 1993 14:41:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: hops primer

  OK enough already!  The response for copies of the Hops Growing Primer
have been overwhelming.  I'm getting it into HBD shape and will try to
post it on Friday.  Please no more direct requests!

Russ

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 14:16:56 -1100
From: Kirk_Anderson at wheatonma.edu (Kirk Anderson)
Subject: cold break and blowoff questions

Seems like the more I brew, the more questions I have.

I'll still be an extract brewer for a little while.  When I pour my gallon
and a half of boiling wort onto three and a half of cold water, is that the
dreaded Hot Side Aeration, or is that just a pretty good way of getting a cold
break?  Does the answer depend on whether or not I use a strainer to catch
the hop gunk while pouring? (following Charlie)

So now I got my cold break.  Do I have to to rack the wort off this stuff
before pitching yeast?  or can it wait a few days until I rack to secondary?

There's a lot of talk about blow-off tubes lately. I assume you folks all
use a carboy for primary AND secondary, since I don't see how a tube on my
plastic primary would ever spit anything.  (I may skim the next one, as js
recommends.) I suppose too that you always brew exactly the same quantity,
since blowoff volume would vary with the level of the wort in the vessel?

Well I just did my first Wyeast. And I had even made a starter.  That baby was
chugging 14 hours after pitching.  By the way, how much extract syrup (not DME)
does it take in a pint of water to make 1.020?

Thanks everybody. 'On a toujours besoin d'un plus petit que soi' (La Fontaine)

Kirk


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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 14:13 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Bandwidth

>Re: Seeking Albuquerque & Santa Fe beer recommendations
This should have been sent directly rather than being posted.  99% of
us don't need to know.

*************************
Subject: Re: gushers
Adam writes:
>Recently my brewpartner and I bottled a Red ale.  We were slightly
>disturbed that fermentation had stopped so soon (after four days of very
>high activity, the Spec. Gravity was the same for four more).  We primed
>with malt extract 
>(1 1/4 cup to 5 gal) and now about 1 in 3 bottles gush.  Is it possible
>fermentation was stalled that long and picked up in the bottle?  This is
>not a big problem, since we can easily open bottles over a sink, but I'd
>like to be sure when fermentation is complete.  Replies via e-mail are
>welcome.  Thanks in advance!

If only 1 in 3 gush, then I'd say either you did not mix the priming
solution well with the green beer or you have inconsistent sanitation
of your bottles.

*****************

Subject: Re: Mashing temps for De Cosyns Belgian malts?
Carl writes:

>Went to a presentation by Dr. Michael Lewis from U.C. Davis a few
>weeks ago where he said that a temp. step mash was absolutely
>essential to give best extract yeilds and fermentability when using
>American lager malt (aka "klages" in this neck of the woods).  He
>also said that with British Pale Ale malt, a single temp infusion mash
>was best.  I get the idea that the mash temp profile really depends on
>what your malt was designed for.
>
>I have some Belgian Pilsner malt and Pale Ale malt from De Cosyns
>maltings.  Does anyone have info on the proper mash temps for these
>two fine malts?  (If I had to guess, I'd do a single temp 150F
>infusion mash with the Pale Ale, and a temp step/ramp from
>122F-142F-158F for the Pilsner malt.)

Agreed that undermodified malt needs either a step-infusion or decoction
mash for best results (protein splitting into amino acids, etc.), but
the proper mash temp is dependent on what kind of dextrin profile you
want in your wort, not on the grain type.  I'm pretty sure that the
DeWolf-Cosyns Pale and Pils malts are both fully modified (I'll check
tonight and post a followup tomorrow) and can be used without a protein
rest.

If you want a dextrinous wort, high in unfermentables, then do the
sacchification rest (regardless of the mashing method) at the higher
end of the saccharification temperatures (i.e. in the vicinity of
158F).  If you want a highly fermentable wort, then do the saccharification
rest at the lower end of the range (i.e. in the vicinity of 1048F).
Temperatures in between (e.g. 153F) will give you wort that is neither
very high nor very low in dextrins.

**********************

Subject: Re:dry hopping versus hop tea
Peter writes:

>In HBD 1118 Al talks about adding hop tea prior to bottling:
>
>> to make a hop "tea" by boiling some hops in water for an hour (and while
>> you're at it, you can add flavor hops 15 minutes before the end of the boil
>> and finishing hops 5 minutes before the end of the boil)
>
>How does this compare with dry hopping for the same effect?  I would think
>that 1/2 oz hops sitting for a week in a secondary would have more effect
>than the same quantity boiled for 5 or 15 minutes in water.  Also, how does
>the volume of boiled water effect the extraction?  It all has SG=1.0 which
>implies it's independent of volume???
>
>It would seem to be much easier to boil hops to make tea which is added at
>the last minute than to mess around with dry hopping.

Indeed it is easier, but just as you suspected, I've found that the hop
bouquet is much, *much* more intense from dryhopping than from using
finishing hops (last 5 minutes).  Not only is contact time an issue, but
the wonderful aromatics in hops are very volatile and therefore it takes
very little boiling to drive them off completely.  I'm afraid I don't
have the answer to your question on water volume and extraction.

************************
Subject: Re: Guinness
Mike writes:

>There has been some discussion lately about the difference between
>different types of Guinness Stout.  Here are some statistics from _The
>Essentials of Beer Style_ by Fred Eckhardt:
>
>
>  Original  Alcohol    Final   Hops
>  Gravity    ww/vv    Gravity  ibu
>
>Guinness Extra Stout
>    1052    4.4/5.5     1011    50
>
>1901 Guinness Extra Stout (In Ireland)
>    1075    6.3/7.9     1014    90

Note the year: 1901.  A lot has changed since then.  The Guinness on tap
in Ireland is actually *lower* in gravity than the Guinness we get in
bottles.  Judging from my tastings of the Guinness in the special cans,
I'd say that it's OG is also lower than the bottled variety, but it's
been quite a few years since my last pint of Guinness in the Isles, so
I could not say if in fact it was the same OG as the on-tap version there.
See Jackson's Pocket Guide for the exact gravities on modern Guinness.

<recipe deleted>

>Any comments?  Do you think the yeast will handle the high gravity or
>will I need to re-pitch with champagne yeast?  Should I throw something
>else in to increase the body?  (I would like it as thick as possible. 
>Maybe I should make my first attempt at mashing with flaked barley and
>carapils.)  Should I reduce the hops because the roasted barley will
>add some bitterness?  How many i.b.u. worth?  Does anyone think that
>lactic acid should be added?

I don't think you need to re-pitch champagne yeast -- I think the
#1084 will handle the OG you propose.  The heavy stouts can handle a
great deal of IBUs, upwards of 100 to 200 -- my last Imperial Stout had
(I believe) 180IBU, but that was with an OG of 1120.  I don't think
that lactic acid is needed -- the dark grains will provide plenty
of acitity -- in fact you may want to add a couple of teaspoons of
Calcium Carbonate to mellow the acidity unless your water is already
high in Carbonates.

Al.

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 14:18:29 -0600 (MDT)
From: limd at plasma.arraytech.com (Davin Lim)
Subject: sparge water acidification

Does anybody know of a cheap source of food-grade lactic or phosphoric
acid?  This would be used for acidification of sparge water.  I'd like
to not use more commonly available organic acids like wine acids or
ascorbic acid.  I can get lactic and phosphoric acids from the usual
scientific supply houses (Carolina, for one) but the prices too high
for "consumer" use.  Has anybody heard of any homebrew supply shops
selling this stuff via mail order for a reasonable price?

Here's a crazy idea for your collective speculation on its potential:
Since colas are fairly loaded with phosphoric acid, and the pH of a
cola is in the range of 2-3, I'm guessing that it would not take much
cola to reduce the pH of my tap water to the desired range of 5.3 to
5.7.  If the volume of cola required to bring the pH down is indeed 
quite small, I would guess that it's flavor contribution could also 
be quite small - if not totally unnoticable in even the lightest
beers.  So, whaddya think?  Is this plausible?

- -- 
 ........................................................................
 * Davin Lim 			 * limd at arraytech.com
 * Array Technology Corporation	 * -- OR you can try ..
 * Boulder, Colorado.            *     raid5!limd at devnull.mpd.tandem.com
 ........................................................................

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1121, 04/16/93