FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Specialty Products Intl. part 3 of 4 (korz)
  subscription request ( Russ Mclaren)
  Hops: Growin' & Dry (Derrick Pohl)
  Oxygenation during secondary rack (Domenick Venezia)
  Beer in Chicago, Beer at the ballpark (Philadelphia) (Matthew Mitchell)
  Problems with recent batches---cidery taste (Jim Graham)
  Techincal postings, Continuous brewing (waltman)
  Lee Slezak in '94 (chris campanelli)
  Weissbeir Yeast Cultures (Hardy M. Cook)
  Yeast info, steam beer recipe request, and a chest off-getting. (WEIX)
  Oxidation (geotex)
  Re: Cask Question (Conn Copas)
  starters,pH adjustment (Dave Justice)
  use of oxygen regulators with CO2 (DON'T). (gmeier)
  Re: brewing capitol of the world ("Donald G. Scheidt")
  Re: KQED San Francisco Beer Festival (David Adams)
  Bruheat etc. (Steve Lichtenberg x79300)
  RE: Copper question (Dave Gilbert)
  Re: KQED San Francisco Beer Festival (Richard Stueven)
  RE:Homebrew Digest #1176 (July 07, 1993) (John Mare)
  carboy -> chest freezer (Greg Jesus Wolodkin)
  Little Hole (Jack Schmidling)
  Hot break (Darren Aaberge)
  Re: Besieged by baleful bacteria / infection survey / adverts (Drew Lynch)
  Specialty Products Intl. part 4 of 4 (korz)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 16:45 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Specialty Products Intl. part 3 of 4

This is part 3 of my review of "Home Beermakers Guide" by Leigh P. Beadle.


Pg8:
"PROCEDURE  Fill your fermenter with 4 gallons of cold water."

No mention of boiling and cooling, so I'm assuming that plain, chlorinated
or bacteria-laden tapwater is recommended.  Chlorinated water, if unboiled
to drive off the chlorine, can result in chlorophenols in your beer which
are detectable to taste at the parts-per-billion level.  Bacteria, well,
we all know what that will do to your beer.

"Add 1/4 teaspoon of gelatin to the water in the saucepan without stirring,
bring to a boil, and turn off the heat.  Add a can of Superbrau Ingredient
Mix and a level teaspoon of salt to the saucepan and stir until completely
dissolved."

Hmm?  Gelatin?  Salt?  My ingredient count is up to 8, how about yours?
Gelatin can reduce chill haze if used correctly, but it should be used
at bottling time and not boiled -- just raised to 140F to sanitize.
Boiling it would render it quite useless for fining-out the tannins
that the author is presumably trying to remove.  It's true that a little
salt can improve flavor (Chlorine ions), but I'd say that this recipe is
already beyond help.

"Add 2 pounds of cane sugar (4 cups), and stir until dissolved.  Reheat
the mix to a boil for 2 minutes, then pour it into the cold water in the
fermenter.  Stir thoroughly or the hot mix will sink to the bottom.  Next,
pour a pack of Superbrau yeast into the beer and after 10 minutes, stir
thoroughly."

No mention of aeration.  To me, "stir thoroughly" is different from aeration.
Even though this is dry yeast that was "imported from overseas," it still
requires that the wort be aerated.  Again this 2 minute boiling time is a
laugh and a half.  By the way, cane and corn sugar will, indeed, create
the same cidery flavors, but they are not actually the same.  Corn sugar
is dextrose (glucose) and cane sugar is mostly sucrose.  Yeast can absorb
glucose directly, but sucrose is a glucose molecule bonded to a fructose
molecule and thus must be split outside the yeast cell by an enzyme that
yeast release (whose name escapes me at the moment) before being absobed
by the yeast.

Pg9:
"To carbonate, add on-half teaspoon of white household sugar to each of your
clean 12 ounce bottles.  You will need 48 bottles.  Use a small funnel and
1/2 measuring teaspoon."

No mention of sanitizing the bottles, spoon, funnel or the sugar.  Bacteria
and wild yeast can and do exist on clean glass, spoons, funnels and in
sugar.  Besides being unsanitary, inconsistent carbonation can be the
result of this procedure, not only from inconsistent amounts of sugar, but
also from incomplete dissolution of the granular sugar.  No, a much better
way of priming is to siphon into another food-grade vessel and add a measured
amount, 1/2 to 3/4 cup dextrose boiled in a cup or two of water.

To be continued...

Al.

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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 17:13:11 PDT
From: russ at netcom.com ( Russ Mclaren)
Subject: subscription request

Please add me to the list.

Thanks,

Russ


mclaren at ikos.com

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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 18:01:46 -0800
From: pohl at unixg.ubc.ca (Derrick Pohl)
Subject: Hops: Growin' & Dry

Two points re hops - one a question, the other a report:

1) Growin' Hops

I planted two rhizomes about six or seven weeks ago, received from a mail
order company.  One was Nugget, the other Centennial.  Nugget sprouted and
is doing well, but no sign yet of Centennial.  I followed the accompanying
directions, i.e. planted upright with the top of the rhizome about two
inches underground.  I'm sure neither was planted upside down.  Both had
small traces of some sort of mold growing here and there on the skin of the
rhizome (they were shipped wrapped in plastic bags).  They've had plenty of
water and are in a sunny spot, but the soil is not great.  Realizing the
soil was indeed substandard, I fertilized nine days ago and the Nugget,
which had sprouted but was small, responded vigourously.  But still, no
Centennial.

My question is:  is there hope for the Centennial?  How long can a rhizome
conceivably sit underground without sprouting?  Might it appear next year? 
Or is it now no more than a decomposing stick?

2) Dryhoppin'

Just wanted to report with considerable glee that my first attempt at
dry-hopping has resulted in a phenomenally hoppy and delightful pale ale! 
I think it's the only way to get that bright, in-your-face, almost
citrus-like, aggressive hoppiness characteristic of the finest North
American microbrew.  I threw an ounce of loose Cascade hops into the
secondary and bottled nine days later.  The hops pretty much just floated
on top, even though I tried to push them down a couple times with a
sanitized slotted spoon, and I was worried that not enough hop flavour
would get into the brew, but my fears were groundless.  God knows what the
hop utilization figures might be (though judging from the recent thread on
the issue, even s/he is probably not sure), but the result was exactly the
delicious mega-hoppiness I sought.  And as has been suggested here, one
does obtain a major aroma boost with little additional bitterness.  I also
had no clogging problems with the racking tube.  The hops just floated at
the top, and I siphoned the beer out underneath them.  I look forward to
trying it with my lagers next winter.

So if you haven't tried dry-hopping yet, do it, do it, do it!

- -----
Derrick Pohl (pohl at unixg.ubc.ca)
UBC Faculty of Graduate Studies, Vancouver, B.C.


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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 19:07:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
Subject: Oxygenation during secondary rack

In planning my next batch of beer, the question came up as to
the extent of oxygenation when racking to the secondary.  Anybody
want to estimate the effects?  Other than to be as gentle as 
possible any suggestions to minimize the oxygenation?  How about
throwing a small piece of dry ice into the secondary, and letting
it evaporate.  CO2 is heavier than air and as the dry ice sublimates
it should force out all the air.  Should I bother?

Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
venezia at zgi.com



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Date: 06 Jul 93 21:59:10 EDT
From: Matthew Mitchell <IEKP898%tjuvm.bitnet at TJUVM.TJU.EDU>
Subject: Beer in Chicago, Beer at the ballpark (Philadelphia)

From:  Matthew Mitchell
Sorry if this rains on anyone's parade, but I was quite disappointed by
Goose Island when I visited Chicago a couple of weeks ago.  Granted I didn't
get to try the Hopscotch Ale which I was looking forward to (it's my kind of
style) but there wasn't anything there that I liked as much as its counter-
part which I had had at Dock Street (Philadelphia) the night before.  Best
example was the weissbier: I actually finished the sampler size at Dock Street
the first weissbier I remember finishing|
Generally, the Goose Island seemed less flavorful.

To change the subject: someone pointed out the micro-brew available at the
Stick.  Veterans Stadium now has a stand on the 200-level which is exclusively
imported beer (and some from Pottsville 8^)  Price is $4.75 a bottle with
a couple of exceptions like Sam Smiths.  Now I didn't check to see if they
actually had everything offered: I'd much rather bring a half-gallon of
lemonade (99c) and maybe a flask if I have to have something alcoholic.

Do we need to compile a Ballpark beer guide???
My recommendation:  Blue Hen beer at Wilmington, Del.
(As I've said before: Lion in Wilkes-Barre is #1 for contract-made beer
  both the late, lamented Trupert BTW: anyone ever try to match that or
  get the recipe from Joe Ortlieb? and Blue Hen.  Apologies to West End,
  a close #2, if only because the Saranac they sell themselves)

Howzat!?!
Matthew Mitchell     <iekp898 at tjuvm.tju.edu>   <iekp898 at tjuvm.bitnet>
Former Brewmaster, Penthouse Brewing Co., Haverford PA
makers of Barclay Beer, Penthouse Brown Ale, and Big B Malt Liquor


Inquiring minds want to know:  how the h*** did SCHLITZ win the GABF???


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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1993 20:20:35 -0600 (CDT)
From: jim at n5ial.mythical.com (Jim Graham)
Subject: Problems with recent batches---cidery taste

My apologies if this appears twice---it shouldn't.  It seems that my first
attempt at routing this via a faster UUCP path didn't quite work.  :-(

First, some background:

I'm more or less a beginner....  I still brew from kits (or at least, from
malt extracts+hops), and can't afford the equipment to go beyond this yet.
I've made a fair number of batches, and all (except the most recent two)
came out fantastic.

Now, the problem:

My most recent two batches have a cidery sort of taste to them.  It's not
really what I would call sour, as such, but it is pretty bad.  The owner of
the local homebrew supply shop tells me that sometimes, you'll get a batch
that takes a *LOT* longer to age (he said sometimes even 5 weeks---the
first of these has now been in bottles for roughly 3.5 weeks), and based
solely on my description, he thinks these batches might just need to
continue to age.

Btw, both batches have good carbonation, and at the bottling stage,
everything seemed perfectly normal (from what little I know, at least).

Does this sound like anything people have seen before?  Could these batches
have gone bad on me?  Does this have anything to do with the fact that the
outside temps are no longer just in the 80s and low 90s, but more like 90s,
with heat index readings at/near 110 deg. F?  I do have central air, and
keep the temperature inside at/near 78 deg., but I gather that there's more
to it than just this?

Any idea if these batches will recover?  What about the batch in the
fermenter now?  Is it likely to suffer the same fate?

   --jim

- --
#include <std_disclaimer.h>                                 73 DE N5IAL (/4)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
INTERNET: jim at n5ial.mythical.com  |  j.graham at ieee.org     ICBM: 30.23N 86.32W
AMATEUR RADIO:  (packet station temporarily offline)       AMTOR SELCAL: NIAL
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E-mail me for information about KAMterm (host mode for Kantronics TNCs).



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Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1993 23:02:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: waltman at BIX.com
Subject: Techincal postings, Continuous brewing


As a new homebrewer (8th batch in primary) and a very new HBD reader (1 week,
but have been reading archives) I thought I'd add to the discussion of the
technicality of some postings. Even though there are many discussions I do
not follow AT PRESENT -- as my knowledge of the chemistry and biology of
brewing increases I hope to go back and understand them better at a later
date. Similarly, I do not now do any kegging of my beer, so I do a quick
scan of the posts on that subject, but when I do have decide to take the
plunge it will be nice to have this information available. In the mean time,
that is why the PageDown key was invented. So keep the technical posts
coming and help me changed from a receipe follower to a brewing engineer
and scientist.

As for advertising, I do think a policy is required. Some of the posts
remind me of the benchmark wars I've seen in other forums.  As Mark Twain
has been paraphrased "There are lies, damned lies and benchmarks."
Announcements of new products by their distributors are great. So are third
parties comments of "I used X and it was great" or "I tried Y and it was
lousy." Distributors of products should not make negative comments about
competing products and personal remarks should be avoided.

On another note, does anyone have any references or information on continous
brewing? My father is a mathematician and one class of problems he studies
is the theory of chemostats -- which is essentially a continuous fermentor.
Private e-mail is fine.

Lastly, thank you to all who responded with advice on my question regarding
importing homebew into Canada. I will let you all know how things turned
out after the family re-union/

Fred Waltman.
waltman at bix.com

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Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 22:01 CDT
From: akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli)
Subject: Lee Slezak in '94

I feel the compulsion to waist bandwidth for a wholly personal reason:

Lee Slezak, if you are still breathing, I need the talk to you.  Contact
me asap.

chris campanelli

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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1993 06:55:00 EDT
From: hmcook at boe00.minc.umd.edu (Hardy M. Cook)
Subject: Weissbeir Yeast Cultures

Concerning Dennis Lewis's question about Weissbeir yeasts:

You might try Brewer's Resource at 1-800-8-brewtek for slants of wheat
yeasts.

	CL-90  Belgian Wheat -- A top fermenting yeast which produces a 
				soft, bread like flavor and leaves a sweet,
				mildly estery finish.
	CL-92  German Wheat --  A true, top fermenting Weizenbier yeast, Spicy,
				clovy and estery.  High attenuative.
	CL-94  American Wheat - Offers a smooth, slightly sweet wheat beer,
				with a full, clean, underattenuated malt
				flavor.

I have purchased the German and the American but have not had a chance to
use these two cultures yet.  The other cultures I purchased from BrewTek
have worked great.

Hope this helps.

- --Hardy M. Cook
  HMCook at boe00.minc.umd.edu

PS: the German Wheat is a single strain culture unlike the Wyeast variety.

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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1993 07:46:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: WEIX at swmed.edu
Subject: Yeast info, steam beer recipe request, and a chest off-getting.

Thanks to all who responded to my recent request for info on yeast strain
variance. Unfortunately the compiled information is greater than 8k which
precludes posting it on the HBD whole; however, I found this information to be
of great interest Given the certainty of this topic's reemergence, I was
wondering if anyone else would like to see a Yeast FAQ for storage on the
archive. I could and would submit the strain variances, proper rehydrating
techniques, and culture methods as a FAQ resource.  Can someone tell me how to
go about this or who to contact? If there is no interest in an archive
submission, I will chop the info up into 4 sections (Dry, Liquid Ale, Liquid
Lager, and Misc/Wine/Funky_Belgian_Fungi/etc) and force it on the digest
readership as a whole.

One more request:I wanna make a Steam(tm) beer! I have looked at the recipe in
Papazian's New Testament for The Sun Has Left Us on Time Lager, but am unsure 
of the fermentation times. Does one lager a steam beer? How cool does room
temperature have to be? Please deluge me with your favorite award winning
recipes! Thanks!

Patrick Weix
UT Southwestern at Dallas
weix at swmed.edu

P.S. Not to start a flame war or anything but why do people submit
recipes that they have not tried? I hate to read an interesting recipe only
to see "I'll let you know if this works" or some variant of same at the end.
Show some restraint and tell us if it works after you've had a glass or three!
Glad to get that off my chest!

P.P.S. The above does not of course reply to harebrained ideas about
papershredder/maltmills etc. That sort of free exchange of ideas and
brainstorming makes the HBD great! (I use harebrained in the best intentioned
way of course >(:p <--rabbit sticking out tounge?!?!).

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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 09:51:06 EDT
From: <geotex at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Oxidation


Greetings.

There has been a lot of talk about oxidation lately.
Would someone be so kind as to give me an explanation
of what exactly it is.  I realize it has something to 
do with having hot wort exposed to oxygen (aerated).

Is cooling the hot wort (before adding it to the cold
water in the fermenter) the best way to prevent this 
problem?

Fill me in! 
Thanks

Alex Ramos
geotex at engin.umich.edu


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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 15:41:17 BST
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Cask Question

Keith asks about wooden casks. I don't use one myself, but obviously they are
not going to hold a great deal of pressure in the first place and, secondly,
are likely to lose pressure with time. So you need a strategy in which (a) you
are prepared to drink the brew quickly and young and (b) you encourage a
prolonged secondary ferment in the cask. My advice would be to use finings both
to hasten drinkability, but more importantly, to slow the primary fermentation
down before it has gone quite to completion. This seems to result in earlier
condition than that which is achieved simply by priming the cask. Lastly,
(heresy button on) an attenuative dried yeast could be used to ensure prolonged
fermentation.

- -- 
Conn V Copas
Loughborough University of Technology          tel : +44 509 263171  ext 4164
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre     fax : +44 509 610815      
Leicestershire  LE11 3TU              e-mail - (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut   
G Britain                                      (Internet):C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk


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Date:         Wed, 07 Jul 93 09:06:40 CDT
From: Dave Justice <DD24005 at UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU>
Subject:      starters,pH adjustment

 Hi all,
  I've been reading HBD for a few months now and my brewing has improved
  as a result. This is a fantastic forum and I wouldn't change a thing.
  For this, my first post, I have one datapoint and one question.
   Datapoint: I've been getting much quicker and visibly impressive
              yeast starters going by using boiled or canned wort saved
              from previous (all-grain) batches.  I usually pitch the
              starter before retiring at night and with this method,
              I'm seeing a good 1/2" to 3/4" krausen in the starter
              the next morning.  No combination of DME and yeast
              nutrients ever worked this well for me, I was lucky to see
              any decent krausen after 1.5 days or so.
   Question: Lately I've taken to adjusting the pH of my sparge water
             using acid blend. Exactly what is that stuff? It takes
             about 3/8 tsp. per 5 gallons to get the pH of my tap water
             into the 5.5 to 5.8 range. My beers are turning out just
             fine, but it hasn't seemed to improve my extraction. I
             think there are other more significant factors at work
             there.
   Comments?

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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 11:02:56 -0600
From: gmeier at ncsa.uiuc.edu
Subject: use of oxygen regulators with CO2 (DON'T).

David Skelton writes:
>"I'm currently setting up a kegging system for my beer and I was wondering if 
>there was any reason why I can't use my O2 regulator from my oxy/acetylene
>setup. If threads are the only problem then I could come up with an adapter
>but I don't know if there is any difference in the regulator itself."

        I wouldn't do it.  I don't know if there is any difference in the
regulator itself, but regulators for oxygen service should never be allowed
to be contaminated with anything potentially flammable (oil or other
hydrocarbons are the most common problem).  A contaminated regulator, when
put back into service with high pressure oxygen, presents an explosion
hazard.  Regulators are so expensive that I assume somebody somewhere will
hook up your oxygen regulator to an oxygen tank again.  In the same issue
of HBD, Al wrote:

>"Regarding force carbonation, you can begin at a higher pressure, but in
>eventually, you will need to use the tables to determine what pressure
>you need to use for the temperature you've chosen.  Be careful when
>you lower the pressure at the gauge (release the pressure in the keg
>first) or you will get a lot of foam and some may travel back up your
>CO2 line towards the regulator."

So it looks like contamination of the regulator is a real risk.


Gary Meier
FMC Corporation
Box 8
Princeton, NJ 08543                             (609) 951-3448


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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 8:15:39 PDT
From: "Donald G. Scheidt" <dgs1300 at aw101.iasl.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: Re: brewing capitol of the world

In HOMEBREW Digest #1164, Thu 17 June 1993, we find:
>From: STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com
>Subject: brewing capitol of the world
>
>It is very easy in the current renaissance-in-brewing atmosphere in the US to
>get wrapped up in our own little corner of the world and think that we sit on
>top of the best beer.  But the truth is that we're not even close.  There is
>high quality brew in this country, but there is also a *lot* more mediocre beer
>being made, whether you're talking the East Coast, the West Coast, or
>somewhere in between.

Partly true.  Microbrews hold a fraction of the market, and the big three
or four lager brewers hold a huge share of the market among them.  However,
in the last 12 years, we've gone from 50 operating breweries in the USA to
over 350 - and about 300 of these are putting out some quality products.
In terms of volume, the USA is the brewing giant of the world - we 'Merkins
brew more in quantity than any other country, although we don't consume
more per capita (viz. Germany, Belgium, Czech Republic).  In terms of
quality, though, we're still re-learning lessons forgotten long ago, a
result of Prohibition.

The current wave of American beer-bragging is due to a recent phenomenon -
we finally have beer to brag about!  For years, Europeans could visit us
here, and while we Americans could crow over their material life-style,
they could justifiably sneer at the mediocre, flavourless American beers.
Now we have good brews again (although some of the praise is not fully
justified), and we've come a long way.  As local people become accustomed,
I hope they'll be able to relax and enjoy the good things being made with
a quiet sense of pride.  Some of our recent converts to Good Beer still
have a bit to learn about the Rest Of The World; just give 'em some time.

>Beer Heaven (and the Brewing Capitol of the World) in undoubtedly located in
>Europe.  I'd nominate Belgium for Heaven, Bavaria for the Capitol, with the
>British Isles and the rest of Germany as close also-rans.
>The USA is hardly in the race.

Much has been said about the "beer-belt" of brewing that stretches from the
UK across much of north-central Europe.  The origins of most of our well-known
beer-styles are in these lands.  It's kind of ironic to brag about "locally-
produced" pale ale, stout, or pilsener, knowing the origins of these styles.
We might be able to make a case for Anchor Steam, it being a style all its
own, but most of our beer is derived from some style imported from across
the Atlantic.  Lager from Germany and Austria, pilsner from Bohemia, bitter
ale from the UK; even our basic barley and hops were originally imports,
transplanted here.  What was that about "our victuals and especially our ale
being spent", entered in the log of a little boat called the "Mayflower"...?
Hey, we've even imported actual brewers!  Does "Celis" ring a bell?

>If you've been to Europe, you know what I mean.  If you haven't been there,
>what are you waiting for?

For a lot of folks, it's a matter of priorities.  Raising a family, paying
the rent or mortgage, or even a touch of good old xenophobia:  all may con-
tribute to settling for what's available in "my own back yard".  In some
cases, this has eventually hardened into an attitude that it's just plain
"disloyal" to consume foreign products, because if it was American-made,
it was good enough.  Well, it often wasn't "good enough", as GM and Ford
discovered in the 70s and 80s, and the big brewers are discovering as they
fight for stagnating or declining market share, while the micros keep on
growing, and the homebrewers keep on making their own.  For those who go
abroad, though, visit the old centers of brewing - and take one or two
bottles of good New American micro-brew with you, to show the natives that
maybe we are catching on, finally.  I've done it once or twice.

BTW, beer chauvinism is alive and well in Germany.  They don't much care
for beers from outside of Germany, with the very occasional exception.  Of
course, they may just be a teensy little bit justified, at least on
occasion, in thinking that their country, especially the southern part, is
some sort of center of brewing.

Actually, I keep thinking that my brew-cellar is the brewing capitol of my
own immediate neck of the universe (Maritime Pacific and Redhook notwith-
standing).  Don't all homebrewers regard their cellars this way ... ? ;-)
- -- 
       /\ \      |  Don Scheidt                           |      /\ \
      /  \ \     |  Boeing IASL, 777 Cab Development      |     /  \ \
     / /\ \ \    |  dgs1300 at aw101.iasl.ca.boeing.com      |    / /\ \ \

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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 11:18:34 -0400
From: David Adams <tmc!david at uunet.UU.NET>
Subject: Re: KQED San Francisco Beer Festival

Ron Hall writes...

> I am surprised that there have been no posts yet about the KQED
> San Francisco Beer Festival.   Perhaps it is the format of the thing
> that makes it not get the kind of recognition that the GABF or the Oregon
> Brewers Festival get, as it may not appeal to some homebrewers.
> Let me describe it this way:
> ...
One of the Boston NPR stations, WBUR (Boston University Radio?) has been  
running essentially the same event for a few years, calling it "A Brewer's  
Offering".  Part of the price is tax deductible, and you get a free Pilsner  
glass (at least you did two years ago.)  


If you are in the Boston area, 90.9 FM is where you can get details.  The  
event is more condusive to getting mildly trashed on quality brew than it is  
to actually doing some judging.  Noise, banners, munchies, bands playing,  
CROWDS, more noise, too much to choose from, no space for taking notes.  That  
said, though, it's a fun time for what it is.  


I, for one, am heading to Portland this year.  See y'all at Tom McCall  
park...

Dave
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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 11:32:09 -0400
From: steve at Pentagon-EMH6.army.mil (Steve Lichtenberg x79300)
Subject: Bruheat etc.


Hey now --

In HBD 1176 Richard Childers described hid ideas for building a 
mash/brew kettle.  While this was quite detailed it seemed overly complicated
(maybe a case of overanalysing a simple problem :-) ).
The final product described in Richard's post sounds suspiciously like
a commercial steam jacketed kettle as used by almost every restaurant in 
the world.  These kettels are a dfouble walled stainless steel vessel
which circulates live steam through the gap between the walls and are
available in sizes from 3 gallon all the way up to 100+ gallons.

I have been thinking that it would make an ideal mash/boil vessel and 
have been actively searching the used restaurant equipment dealers in 
the area for one.  I have found many in a variety of sizes but they
are all a little too expensive right now.  In addition, I need one 
with a built in boiler (not many people have steam boilers in their houses)
this adds to the price considerably.  Used kettles in the 5 -10 gallon range
that fit my requirements are available for around $300-500.  I would like to 
find one for around 100 -150 in fair condition that can be cleaned up.

The principle advantages of using steam to heat your wort are 
 1.  Speed.  Since steam has about 6 times more latent heat than water at 
the same temperature, it will bring 10 gallons of liqquid to a boil in a few 
minutes.
 
 2.  Ability to maintain a rolling boil without having to worry about
scorching.  Since there is a maximum temperature that steam can maintain
it is much more difficult to scorch and/or caramelize sugars in the 
process.

I do see some potential difficulties in trying to mash in this type of 
vessel though.  Since steam is generally much higher in temperature than
the target temps of the mash and the heat generated in the kettle is
evenly distributed throughout the interior spaces it would be
a little difficult to maintain targeted temperatures.  Constant monitoring
and adjustment would be necessary to avoid overshooting.

i still think that a steam kettle would be worth investigating.  
Anyone out there wiht any experience using one is welcome to respond.

- --S
  ^

Brewers do it while they mash

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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 08:52:53 -0800 (PDT)
From: Dave Gilbert <solomon!solomon.aha.com!dave at yoda.eecs.wsu.edu>
Subject: RE: Copper question

Jim Grady writes:

> Well, I have finally started to build a coppper manifold and have a
> question.  I see two types of copper pipe in the hardware store; M type
> and L type.  What kind do I want?  Do I care?

Well I don't know what the M and L stand for, but last weekend when I was
constructing my copper manifold, I discovered the hard way what the
differences are between the two types of flexible copper pipe available
to me.  (deep breath, don't you love run on sentences)

To make a long story short, the two types of copper pipe that I found
are both the same O.D.(5/8ths I think), but one has much thicker walls 
and is, (with my limited skills) impossible to bend smoothly and in 
has some sort of greasy film on the inside.  The other pipe has much thinner
walls and is bright and clean on the inside.  The thinner walled pipe
can be easily bent into just about any configuration that you need.

So, to sum it all up, get the thinner walled pipe, your life will
be much more fulfilling, and your neighbors won't cover their childern's
ears when they walk past your garage.

Hope this helps.

Dave Gilbert       dave at aha.com
Advanced Hardware Architectures Inc.
Moscow, Idaho


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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1993 09:38:51 -0700
From: Richard Stueven <gak at wrs.com>
Subject: Re: KQED San Francisco Beer Festival

In HBD# 1176, Ron Hall gives us this well-intentioned misinformation:

>     The KQED Beer Fest is on July 10 in San Francisco, I believe at
>the Armory, south of Market Street near I-80.  Disclaimer:  I have
>nothing to do with this Festival, just thought you should know.
>also FYI, KQED is the local public television station.
>
>     Bay Area Locals:  Please post corrections or more specific info if
>you know more than this.

Here's the scoop, courtesy of the California Celebrator:

	July 10	San Francisco CA
		11th Annual KQED International Beer & Food Festival,
		1-4pm, Concourse, 8th & Brannan.  $35 (members save on
		advance orders).  250 beers, micro pavilion, lots of
		food & music.  415-553-2200 for info.

The Concourse is on Brannon between 7th and 8th.  Get there
early...there's usually a block-long line at the door!

See you there...

have fun
gak (gak & gerry's garage, brewery and hockey haven, Castro Valley CA)

P.S.  July 17-18 Mountain View CA
                 California Small Brewers Festival at the Tied House.
                 Call 415-965-2739 for info.

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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1993 09:46:31 -0700 (MST)
From: cjohnm at ccit.arizona.edu (John Mare)
Subject: RE:Homebrew Digest #1176 (July 07, 1993)

A few weeks back while in one of my favourite "real ale" pubs ("The Brewery
Tap") in Glasgow, Scotland, I was told by the proprietor that he had read in
the Glasgow Herald that A-Busch had bought a controlling interest in
Budweiser Budvar! Bad, bad news if true!
John M.

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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 10:00:42 PDT
From: greg at bandit.berkeley.edu (Greg Jesus Wolodkin)
Subject: carboy -> chest freezer

Jonathan G Knight writes:
>For those of you who have chest-freezers with top-opening designs, how do
>get the full carboys in and out w/o breaking your backs?

You could use a milk crate to "protect" the carboy, providing handles
for it at the same time.  Now all you need is a block and tackle over
the freezer and you're all set ;-)

Cheers,
Greg

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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 12:05 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Little Hole

 
 >From: mdcsc!gdh at uunet.UU.NET (Garrett Hildebrand)
  
 >I, too, have a six-gallon Vollrath. I have been thinking about
 modifying it with a valve on the bottom, as has been mentioned by others, and 
 of trying out the "easysparge" type of system discribed by js and others,
 but I haven't found anybody to do the welding, and I also don't know
 where to get a suitable stainless valve.
 
 Two points here.  If you use the easymash concept, no welding is required and 
 you can get by just fine with brass fittings available at any hardware store.
 
 >After reading your comments about your lautering manifold and the use
 of a syphon, it sounds like you have gotten around the problem of needing
 a valve on the pot.
 
 It has been pointed out by several that the easymash screen can just as well 
 be put on the end of a long piece of copper tubing that rises up out of the 
 kettle and connects to a hose.  It produces a siphon and the screen is far 
 easier to make than the tubing manifold.
 
 Having said that, a spigot on the bottom of a kettle just seems to add a 
 touch of class and convenience that I could not live without.  I will never 
 understand the reluctance of some people to drill a hole in a kettle that 
 they bought specifically for the purpose of brewing, when that little hole 
 will make the kettle a "real" brew kettle.
 
 js

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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 10:17:14 PDT
From: dra at jsc-ws.sharpwa.com (Darren Aaberge)
Subject: Hot break

In hbd 1159, Al says this about adding hops to the boil to help with protein 
coagulation:

>Indeed hop particles will help with protein coagulation, but I feel that you
>should wait till after the hot break to add the hops in the first place.
>The last time I recall reading about this is in a post from Stuart somewhere
>around HBD 1150.  My contention, as that mentioned by Stuart, is that the
>hops will do too-good a job coagulating proteins *AROUND THEMSELVES* thereby 
>reducing the utilization.  Now, if you wait till after the hot break, I
>suggest that there will still be some coagulation of proteins around the
>hops, but not nearly as much as if the hops were added before the hot break.
>
>Why does this matter?  Well, the theory is that the protein coagulated
>around the hops will reduce utilization. 

I always wait until after the hot break to add hops for this reason.  However,
I also always find myself wanting very badly to add the hops to avoid a 
boil over.  Does anyone else have an opinion on this?  Has anyone done a side
by side analysis of this?  I have observed that even waiting until after the
hot break to add hops, they still get coated with protein.

Darren Aaberge 

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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 93 09:51:48 -0700
From: Drew Lynch <drew at chronologic.com>
Subject: Re: Besieged by baleful bacteria / infection survey / adverts

Jeff Benjamins bacteria problem:
Acck!
  I just got rid of a nasty infection which ruined 6 5 gallon batchs.
It's almost enough to send you back to the liquor store for commercial
beer.  I think that our problems differ in source, but not in result.
My contamination was occurring due to a contaminated primary
fermenter, and a desire to dump less bleach into the environment.

  Anyway, I think my soulution may work for you as well.  I became a
serious anal retentive when it comes to sanitization.  I bleach the
shit out of everything(1 cup/[3-5] gallons).  I use long contact times
on everything, at least 15 minutes, including the fermentation locks,
rubber stoppers, my rubber gloves, everything. I rinse with
*chlorinated* tap water.

  Three points with you method: 1) Try reboiling your canned starter
wort just prior to use.  You may have bacteria collecting around the
lid of the jar, creating an infection upon opening.  Put the lid on
the boiling pot prior to turning off the heat, so even the lid is
steam sterilized.  2) Put a drop of bleach in each fermentation lock
used, so bacteria will not be able to "swim" through it.. 3) Let the
Wyeast package swell until you are sure it will burst, then a little
more.  Get that population as high as possible before exposing it to
your environment. 

====================================================================
Infections in general:

  About 6 months ago I posted a request for people's infection rates
and sanitization methods.  I did this because I had heard so much
about other folks problems, and had had none myself, and was curious
about my good fortune.  Well, I guess I forgot to "knock on wood"
before posting "I've never had a contaminated batch" :-(  Anyway, I
got 30 responses but was unable to find a reasonable thread of
cause/effect.  I will mail out a compressed, uuencoded tarfile of the
responses if anyone is interested. 

=====================================================================
Advertising:

 How about this: Once a month, each person who sells a product may
post a "I sell this product" message. No claims, no hype, no prices,
no details, just a clear statement of intent to sell.  Interested
parties may then send them private email requesting info on their
product. These people should then refrain from taking part in
discussions on their or competing products.  People with personal or
financial interest (close friends of sellers, etc) should show similar
restraint. Recomendations from satisfied customers in responses to
queries from other list members would always be welcome.


			      Drew Lynch
			Chronologic Simulation
			  (415)965-3312 x18
			 drew at chronologic.com

  

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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 09:49 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Specialty Products Intl. part 4 of 4

This is part 4 of my review of "Home Beermakers Guide" by Leigh P. Beadle.


Pg10:
"To establish a siphon you must such on the end of the siphon hose while it
is lower then the opposite end."

Actually, the author is not only showing that they know nothing about
microbiology, but also that they know nothing about physics.  For a
siphon to work, the position of the inlet does not matter as long as it is
under the level of the liquid.  The level of the siphon outlet must
be below the level of the top of the liquid and is NOT AT ALL DEPENDENT
ON THE LEVEL OF THE INLET!  Back to microbiology.  Besides the zillions
of bacteria on your hands, there are hundreds of zillions of bacteria
in your mouth.  Sucking on a siphon hose with your mouth is probably
one of the best ways to infect your beer with lactobacillus which is
everpresent in the human mouth.  Lactobacillus will eat sugars that
the yeast have left behind and cause your beer to gush about four
to six weeks after bottling.

"Unlike commercial beers, which start deteriorating as soon as they are
bottled, your home-made beer has an unlimited shelf life.  This is
because of the natural preservative quality of the yeast."

No, the author's beer has an unlimited shelf life because the author
has infected their beer by using an unsanitized fermenter and by sucking
on unsanitized siphon hoses and there is nothing left in the beer to
spoil.  Also, the bacteria and wild yeast have produced so many off-flavors,
combined with the chlorophenols from the tapwater, that any further
spoilage would not be noticeable.  Please also note that there are
commercial beers such as Sierra Nevada and Bell's that do have yeast
in them.  It is unfair (besides being wrong) to include these fine
beers when criticizing the industrial megabrewers.

Pg13:
"Types of Beer... CANADIAN LAGER  Throughout the world pilsner beers
represent the highest class of beer.  This recipe will produce a refreshing,
non-filling beer with rich European flavor and aroma."

I will not debate the highest class of beer, although I, personally, prefer
Belgian and English ales over pilsners.  Given that the author says:
"Do not ferment your beer in rooms that are less than 60 degrees..."
none of these kits are for making lagers.  They are for making (to use
the expression very loosely) ales.  Also, if it has a "rich European
flavor and aroma," then why call it "CANADIAN LAGER?"

"AMBER  This beer is traditionally brewed during the Octoberfest season
in Germany and is made using lightly roasted malt.  It has an amber color
and heavier malt flavor than most beers."

I think the author incorrectly believes that this is an Octoberfest recipe.
Octoberfest is a lager and is traditionally brewed FOR Octoberfest not
DURING.  It has traditionally been brewed in March for consumption in
October.  Nonetheless, at fermentation temperatures above 60F, what will
probably be made is a very watery and cidery scottish ale.

Pg15:
"For a European-style beer, simply increase the boiling time for the
Ingredient Mix.  For a Heineken or Becks style beer, give the mix a
high boil for 10 minutes... A fifteen minute boil produces a strong
British ale, and a 20 to 40 minute boil with the Dark Mix makes a
moderate or strong stout.  for a richer stout, leave out a gallon of
the cold water..."

The magic of brewing, eh?  Gosh, I never new it was so simple.

Beginners: please just forget you ever read the above quote -- it is
so wrong, I can't even begin to correct it.

Pg21:
"SOME FINAL THOUGHTS   The unique feature of our Ingredient Mixes is that
they contain 1/2 ounce of fresh, uncooked hops.  (These are the lumps you
see in the syrup when you pour it out.)  This gives you an infinite variety
of beer flavor which you tailor to your own taste simply by extending the
normal 2 minute boil."

"The beer should be consumed within a month after bottling..."

Hey, what happened to unlimited shelf life???

"...This is because the yeast may slowly convert some of the remaining
sugars in the beer and cause it to become thinner flavored and may
over-carbonate it.  If the carbonation remains normal after 3 weeks in
the bottle, no problem."

No, it means that you have been lucky and did not infect your beer too
bad.  Of course it's not the yeast that continues to eat the sugars,
it's the bacteria, but I don't think Leigh P. Beadle has ever bothered
to learn about bacteria, despite the fact that he is the author of
some "best selling" books on brewing.  Yeah, right.

This is a comedic brochure, right?  This company doesn't really exist, does
it?  Did Chris Campanelli write this for laughs?  No, I'm afraid this is
a real company and they are really misguiding beginners into brewing a
"beer" that tastes worse than the industrial megabrews.  The prices are
reasonable, but are not the best available through mailorder.  They do have
a Pure Malt Extract (without lumps, and allegedly without corn syrup)
for the same price as the mercifully named "Complete Ingredient Mixes"
but you must buy it by the case and the price is still higher per pound
than Northwestern (100% malt) Malt Extracts.

Al.

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1177, 07/08/93