FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  BTU's (Jack Schmidling)
  Brewcap / Spelt (Ed Hitchcock)
  hop back (Jonathan G Knight)
  Dry-Hopping, etc. etc. etc. (Jeff Frane)
  Zima Clear Malt Liquor (Stephen Brent Peters)
  Iodophor use/Pts-per-#/Maredsous+Lucifer/Foxx/Pete's/dryhopping (korz)
  Keg Parts (roberts735)
  Beer Hunter NOT on Discovery Ch. (Gene Zimmerman)
  Portland HBD Get Together (fjdobner)
  Sherlock's Home (Gene Zimmerman)
  Boston area brewpubs (Tony Rook)
  BrewTeck CL-26 British Draft Ale (Glenn Raudins)
  Alternate source of sugar & flavors (FSAC-FCD) <dward at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  Hot liquor tanks (Jim Busch)
  Transporting Homebrew in cornelius kegs (Your recipe is so tasty  23-Jul-1993 0938 -0400)
  Crushoff in Portland (Jack Schmidling)
  Re : syphoning through hops (Conn Copas)
  RE: Priming, sugar vs. malt extract vs. gyle (John Mare)
  Sierra Nevada (Stephen Brent Peters)
  CO2, Old book, Portland (Mark Garetz)
  Hermaphrodite hops/Alcohol as sterilant/Gone to Portland (korz)
  Blowoff, Iodophor, Sterilizing bottles (Bill Vaughan)
  On to Portland! ("Rad Equipment")
  Helpful Brewers (Don Doyle)
  Old Hops (Jeff Frane)
  What is a microbrewery? (waltman)
  Brewing Techniques Info (Kieran O'Connor)
  Calories and beer (Jay Cadieux)
  Brewing Techniques Update (Kieran O'Connor)
  northwestern is briess (donald oconnor)
  Crazey Train Update (chris campanelli)
  Mashing Specialty Malts, Calculating PPMs (Domenick Venezia)


Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu.
  (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from
  listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
  message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 13:43 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: BTU's

 
 >From: mlh at cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov (Michael L. Hall)
 >Subject: Heat Output of Stoves
 
 >Jack Schmidling says:
 
 > I don't have a clue as to how to determine tthe BTU's of my heat source but
 > it is a NG/forced air furnace I designed for melting aluminum for MM
 > castings.  It will melt 4 lbs of aluminum in 20 minutes.
 
 <I am going to forge ahead and figure out what this means in terms of 
 BTUs/hr.
 
 I knew I could count on someone taking the bait.
 
 >Say that you start out with 1.82 kg (4 lbs.) of Al at 300 K (80 F). First,
 raise it to the melting point of Al, 931 K (1217 F):
 
 Correction here....  aluminum doesn't pour worth a damn at the melting point. 
 I pour at between 1600 and 1700 F.
 
 > Heat output = (247,164 cal + 171,990 cal) / 20 min. = 20,957 cal/min
 
  >             = 4,982 BTU/hr
 
 Needs correction for pouring temp...
 
 >Let's compare this with a stove that will heat 5 gallons of water from
 20 C to 100 C in 20 minutes:
 
 Some stove!  My kitchen stove takes over an hour and I suspect electric 
 ranges are even worse.
  
 >  1. You probably lose up to half your heat in a regular brewing
       setup.
  
 Considering the bricks all around and the crucible are red hot, I would 
 suspect the efficiency is far worse than that.
 
 >  2. Jack's setup is either lower in heat output or heat efficiency
       than a regular brewing setup. Of course, I realize that these
       numbers were just quoted quickly by Jack and may not be his true
       numbers. This is especially true since Jack also states that his
       setup will "boil 14 gallons of wort furiously". Don't look at me,
       I'm just doing the numbers :-)
 
 You can only use the number you have but here is another one that should help 
 a bit.
 
 The furnace uses about 75 cuft of gas per hour, which comes out to about 
 25,000 BTU's in 20 minutes with the gas we get here.
 
 That compares to 14 cuft for my stove burner and 36 cuft for the water 
 heater.
 
 Hmmm.... seems like I already knew the number but didn't know I knew it.
 
 >From: jdsgeoac at osg.saic.com (Karen Jdsgeoac Hyrum GEOACOUSTIC)
 >Subject: CO2 Cylinder filling and gas
 
 >I just had my CO2 cylinder refilled for the second time and I think I
 was ripped off.  To 'fill' my cylinder the people connected my small
 tank to their big tank for about 30 sec and handed it back to me.  This
 was done at a bar.  They did not weigh my my tank or use any pump to
 transfer the CO2.  I think all I got was about 875 psi of gas, but not
 a full 10 lb CO2 tank.
 
 Why think, just weigh it.  A full 10 lb tank should contain 10 lbs of liquid 
 CO2 and the empty weight of the tank is stamped on the outside somewhere.
 
 js

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 10:57:55 -0300
From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH at ac.dal.ca>
Subject: Brewcap / Spelt

Since Mr. Baughman mentioned his Brewcap, I thought I'd ask a question or 
three about it.  First, there are two holes, one larger than the other.  The 
larger hole fits a siphon hose, airlock, or whatever.  What, exactly, fits 
in the smaller opening, or does the smaller oppening fit into a sphon hose?
What sort of clamp do you use to hold it on, just a plastic strap?  A pipe 
clamp?  And thirdly, is the material of the Brewcap completely inert in 
beer?  I appologize if these questions sound ignorant, but the local 
brewshops sell the Brewcaps under the assumption that they are simply for   
racking upright carboys (ie stick racking tube in short wider hole, blow into  
tall thinner hole to start the siphon).
	On another note, I was in a bulk store  yesterday and noticed what 
looked like flaked wheat, but the bag was labelled "Spelt, no wheat".  The 
TerriblyUnhelpfulShopkeeper Explained to me that it was "Spelt, it's not 
wheat".  Thanks.  When pressed further, she said it was a grain "as old as 
time...Biblical times...".  Thanks again.  I looked it up later, and it IS 
in fact a wheat, _Triticum spelta_, used mainly for livestock feed.  Of 
course, at the bulk store the labell extolled the virtues of the proteins 
in Spelt ad nauseum.  Anyway, has anyone used spelt (flaked or otherwise) 
in brewing?  If not, would anyone like to know the results of a 
side-by-side Wit brew-off between regular flaked wheat and spelt?

	ed

____________   
Ed Hitchcock/Dept of Anatomy & Neurobiology/Dalhousie University/Halifax NS
ech at ac.dal.ca   +-----------------------------------------+
		|   Never trust a statement that begins:  |
		|     "I'm not racist, but..."		  |
		+-----------------------------------------+
	Diversity in all things.  Especially beer.

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 13:48:22 -0500 (cdt)
From: Jonathan G Knight <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: hop back


In Kinney Baughman's article(s) on his new microbrewery he mentions the 
"Mason jar hop-back."  I am sort of familiar with the principle of the hop-
back, but what is the Mason jar thing?  Can anyone enlighten me?

Jonathan Knight
Grinnell, Iowa

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 10:31:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Dry-Hopping, etc. etc. etc.

The Tumbleweed Report:  The thing I love about this, Kinney, is that you
are actively disproving the central theme of the brewpub explosion --
"you have to spend a lot of money on fancy stainless steel equipment,
brew boring beer, or forget it."  To avoid libel suits, we will call
this the "California Brewpub Theorem", which *requires* startup costs of
about $500,000 to $750,000.  (The Hart Brewery, which makes Pyramid
ales, was capitalized in about 1984 for $20,000; there is very little
that has changed since then for someone willing to put in some work.)
Bravo, Kinney.

> From: Timothy J. Dalton <dalton at mtl.mit.edu>
> Subject: Brewing Techniques, Issue 2
> 
> Issue 2 of Brewing Techniques arrived yesterday.
> 
> Only 42 pages, but packed with info.
> 
Don't forget, that's 42 pages with almost no advertising.  So, it's 42
pages of real information; compare with the most recent issue of
Zymurgy, which is a real embarrassment: what little editorial matter
there is is almost indistinguishable from the vast amounts of
advertising (including the AHA's own catalog stuffed in there), and most
of what passes for editorial is composed of (a) self-promotion and (b)
lists, lists and more lists.

> From: jeff at rdii.com (Jeff Cook)
> Subject: Belgian yeast strains
> 
> A friend of my brought back two Belgian beers from a trip to Europe.
> One of the bottles is labeled Maredsous, the other is labeled Lucifer.
> 
> Also, does anyone know anything about either of these beers?  I cannot read
> either label, and I do not know what style either of these beers are.
> 
Both of these are or have been available in Portland, and are reasonably
good beers.  The Maredsous is unremarkable, and I don't remember much
about it; the Lucifer is a sort of Duvel knock-off, inferior to the
original but still pretty good.  Hey, the trick with those yeast strains
is to culture them out, then add them to a small amount of 1.030,
unhopped wort.  You will be able to tell *a lot* about the flavor
profile by tasting the resulting beer, and you can answer your own
question about whether it seems suitable for brewing.
> 
> From: "Thomas J. Baker" <tjb at wintermute.unh.edu>
> Subject: Dry Hopping
> 
Whoa, Thomas, get your terminal at 80 characters!

> > > Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> > > 
> > > 
No te preocupes.  Don't worry.  The amount of time you dry-hop is
dependent on how much hop character you want to draw off.  Seven days
really isn't enough, and two weeks is, IMO, a minimum to actually
express some hop character.  My own experience, going back six or seven
years of dry-hopping, is that six weeks is optimal for a really
distinctive dry-hopped beer, but that's only a recommendation for kegged
beers.  (It also happens to gibe with the recommendation of the brewers
at Sierra Nevada for their Celebration Ale.)  Leave the hops in until
you bottle.
> > 
> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 14:49:32 EDT
> 
> This is not a question about Home brew but about HOMEBREW Digest.
> 
> I am new to the HOMEBREW Digest and the internet.  I would like to  
> download some back issue's of HB Digest, but I'm having a problem.
> I know that back issues can be found via ftp at sierra.stanford.edu
> and I can transfer them to my PC (A Gateway 486 running DOS 5.0 and Windows
> 3.1).  But these files are not readable.  They have names like "HB1173.Z".  I
> think the they may be compressed somehow but I am not familiar with UNIX and
> I don't know how to read these files.
> > > 
You need to uncompress them on a Unix system with the "uncompress"
command.  As a fellow-Unix illiterate and DOS user, I sympathize, but
how are you getting ftp service on a non-UNIX system?  Me, I have a
shell account at a local access site and dial them up from my DOS
computer; the UNIX programs run there and if I want to I can transfer
from that computer to mine.  You can probably get a similar arrangement
somewhere near you.
> > 
- --Jeff Frane
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 16:44:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Stephen Brent Peters <sp2q+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Zima Clear Malt Liquor


Hey Gang, 

Us East-Coast types have the good fortune (a little sarcasm, there) of
being the test market for Zima Clear malt liquor.  I haven't tried it.
I hear it tastes like Fresca, and it really is H2O clear.  Has anyone
else seen this, or is it just being dumped in the pittsburgh area?

               Steve Peters =  sp2q at andrew.cmu.edu             
                  *Oxnar demands a _Sacrifice!_*                      

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 08:21:49 CDT
From: pyeatt at Texaco.COM (Larry D. Pyeatt)

Subject: Degrees of Extract

Don Doyle writes:
> As a real example, I brewed 11gals with 26.5 lbs of grains and got
> a 1.065. What extraction am I getting and is it good?
 
Well, plugging the numbers into the equation,
DE = 1.065 * 11 / 26.5 = .44
or 44 degrees of extract.  From this, I would guess that you
added some malt syrup or adjunct.

Most malts are "theoretically" capable of producing about 35
degrees of extract.  I usually get around 32 degrees, which is
pretty good.  The degree of extract tells you how effecient your
mash was.  If you are getting less than 30 degrees, there is room
for improvement in your technique.
( My own personal opinion. )

Larry D. Pyeatt                    This article does not reflect the views
( pronounced "Johnson" )           of my employer or of myself.  Any simi-
Internet : pyeatt at texaco.com       larity to the views of anyone, real or
Voice    : (713) 975-4056          fictional, is purely coincidental.
                                   



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 15:24 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Iodophor use/Pts-per-#/Maredsous+Lucifer/Foxx/Pete's/dryhopping

David writes:
>I have had my last three batches head south with a strange medicinal type of a
>smell and taste. I pitched the first two but am letting the third sit in the
>secondary (hoping the flavor will mellow). I have just figured out that the
>beginning of these off-flavors corresponds to my purchase of a bottle of
>iodophor. I also noticed that the sanitizing solution seems to have the same
>medicinal taste/smell as the beer.
>
>My question is. How do those of you that use iodophor, use it. I have been
>using it like bleach: mix up solution in a 5 gal. bucket, let the
>utensils,carboy,etc. soak for about twenty minutes, rinse well, use assuming
>sanitation.
> 
>I have reread the bottle of B.E.S.T and it says that the stuff does not need to
>be rinsed, but should air dry. Is the stuff impossible to rinse off?? What is
>the networks accepted method for using this stuff?

The reason that often iodophor packages often advertise that iodophor does
not need to be rinsed is because some brewer's water has bacterial problems
and rinsing with the water can re-introduce bacteria.  I've never had problems
with using hot, Chicago tapwater for rinsing, even in the summer (when
everything is more microbiologically active -- that's why the water supply
often has increased levels of chlorine added in the summertime).

I'm quite confident that your problem was not from the iodophor, rather that
the medicinal flavor/aroma came from one of the following sources (in order
of probability):

1. yeast -- I've noticed that some dry yeasts, if not stored in a fridge, after
while, will produce increased levels of phenolics.  Perhaps this is because
there was some more hearty wild yeast in the dry yeast or maybe it's a result
of poor storage.  Other dry yeasts, even when stored properly produce phenolics.

2. airbourne wild yeast infection  -- it seems as if your sanitation technique
is good -- could some wild yeast have gotten in via the air?  Could your
problem correlate with the warmer weather, when the air is more active
microbiologically?

3. wild yeast infection from the water -- maybe you do have a problem with
your rinse water... the solution would be to boil the rinse water or to
air dry the iodophor-sanitized equipment.

******************

Don says he got 11 gallons of 1.065 wort from 26.5 lbs of grain and
wants to know what his extraction rate is and is it good.

Well, the maximum extraction varies depending on the type of grain,
but you got 65 "points" and this translates to:

65*11/26.5 = 26.98

or basically 27 points-per-pound-per-gallon, which is quite good for most
types of base grain.  Some get as much as 30 or even 31 points (Miller
does this partly because he re-circulates the runoff an awful lot and
this not only gives him great numbers, but also it has been reported that
Dave's beer is on the astringent side).

********************
Jeff writes:
>A friend of my brought back two Belgian beers from a trip to Europe.
>One of the bottles is labeled Maredsous, the other is labeled Lucifer.
>From the sediment of each bottle I have plated out a yeast culture.  Does
>anyone know anything about either of these yeast strains.  Will either
>of these yeast strains be suitable for fermentation, or are they just
>used for bottle conditioning?

I don't know whether Lucifer is bottled with the fermentation yeast, but
my guess on the Maredsous is that it is a bottling yeast.  My reason for
this assertion is that Maredsous is made by the same brewery as Duvel
(note the bottle shape is distinctive and the same as Duvel) and I've
read (here in the HBD) that Duvel is packaged with a bottling yeast and
not the fermentation yeast.  Oh, yes, I recall the brewery -- it's
the Moortgat Brewery in Breendonk, if memory serves correctly.

>Also, does anyone know anything about either of these beers?  I cannot read
>either label, and I do not know what style either of these beers are.

Maredsous is an Abbey ale, and it comes in four types which, I believe,
are associated with the Belgian degrees of the OG.  If memory serves,
they are 4, 6, 8 and 10.  I've had only two and the numbers were NOT
on the label (stupid US laws!).  One had a Gold and Black label and the
other had a Gold and Green label.  I'd be interested in the colors of
your label and the number on the bottle, if you could send me email or
post it.  4 Belgian degrees is 1040, 6 is 1060, etc.

I have not tried Lucifer, but have read about it in Jackson's pocket guide,
big book (I forget the name too) and the Great Beers of Belgium book.
Basically, it is a beer of the type that was originated in the beer Duvel.
Duvel means devil and therefore virtually all the breweries that imitated
this beer have chosen names that are associated with the devil: Lucifer,
Satan, etc.

***************************
JC writes:
>BTW, I don't think Foxx accepts CC orders, nor does BCI.  My first order

Hmmm, from Satan to JC...  anyway, Foxx does now accept CC orders.  This
is a pretty recent change.

***************************
John writes:
>I've heard in the past that some larger breweries were jumping on the micro 
>bandwagon by selling beers that looked the part.  I was wondering if someone 
>from St. Paul was familiar with Pete's.  I realize that the term "micro" is 
>somewhat undefined (I've heard under 15,000 bbl/year), but I'm wondering what 
>the thoughts are on this.

Pete's Wicked Ale and their other beers are contract brewed by the
August Schell Brewing Company in New Ulm, Minn.  I don't know how
big it is, but it's no industrial megabrewer.

**********************************
Thomas writes:
>I'm dry hopping my steam beer and was wondering how long is too long to dry
>hop?  I moved the beer to the secondary and added the hops on Sunday, planning
>to go on vacation Tuesday.  As it turns out, I'm now not going on vacation  
>until Friday which means if I leave the hops in the secondary, I'd be dry  
>hopping for two solid weeks (last Sunday to next Sunday).  Is this too long?   
>I've read that dry hopping is best done the last 5 to 7 days.  I could remove  
>the hops on Friday but I wouldn't be bottling for a least a week after that.
>Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Leave the hops till you can bottle.  The reason I posted that "you should not
dryhop longer than 7 to 10 days" is that, empirically, I've found, that more
than 10 days gives less hop bouquet than 10 days.  This is for 65F or so.
At cooler temperatures (although I haven't done this -- this is based upon
what I've read about commercial breweries procedures), like 50F or so, two
weeks seems to be the consensus.

Al.


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 17:55:19 EDT
From: roberts735 at aol.com
Subject: Keg Parts

I have purchased a pair of old but clean Firestone 3-gallon kegs similar to
Cornelius.  In the process of replacing the gasket for the lid, which is
screw-down, and circular, not spring-clamp and semi-oval, I discovered the
regularly mentioned  suppliers do not carry the part. 

The Firestone keg was manufactured by a company now called Spartansberg Steel
Company in Spartansberg, South Carolina. They do not have parts, and say the
keg is very old.

Help... does anyone know a source for the gaskets, or a functional 
substitute? The other fittings are standard pin-lock, and the kegs are too
fresh to dispose of, even if they are old...

Thanks

Bob Stovall

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 17:58:50 CDT
From: Gene Zimmerman <ezimmerm at hp.uwsuper.edu>
Subject: Beer Hunter NOT on Discovery Ch.

Salutations!
   I was curious about Jackson's series Beerhunter, so I called my cable
company and asked for the Discovery Channel's phone number and was given:
1-301-986-0444 x5298, this was to put me in touch with the people who
would tell me when this delightfully sounding show would next appear on
this channel. I was asked by a recorded voice to leave a message and my
phone number and was told I was to be called back. I was. The next day I
found on my machine a message from the Discovery Channel saying, "The
Beerhunter will not be running anytime in the future on The Discovery
Channel." 
   They did not give any justification for this decision. I was, however,
given the name and number of the distributor, "Channel 4 TV" of London.
This number is 011-44-71-631-4444. They will reportedly sell the video.
   All in all, I was disapointed.

Gene in Duluth


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 18:21 CDT
From: fjdobner at ihlpb.att.com
Subject: Portland HBD Get Together

I have been exchanging e-mail with Jeff Frane w.r.t a get together in
Portland. Unfortunately this e-mail will probably be discovered after
the conference by those attending. In any case, we are suggesting to meet
at the Elephant & Castle (439 SW 2nd) which is about 9 blocks (short ones
I understand) form the hotel. Good beers on tap and draught and 
inexpensive food is to be found. Darts.

The word will undoubtedly get around while there but in any case.....
See you there. 

Frank Dobner


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 19:21:26 CDT
From: Gene Zimmerman <ezimmerm at hp.uwsuper.edu>
Subject: Sherlock's Home

Salutations!
   In responce to Mike's Thursday inquiry about the cause of the Ale's
stellar taste at Sherlock's Home I have nothing to say. I can say, however,
that I've heard it said Michael Jackson has said the _cask_ conditioned 
ales there are the closest thing to his 'domestic' ales he's found in
the U.S. 
   This is what was said just the other week when I toured the Summit 
Brewery in St. Paul.

'Nuff Said,
Gene in Duluth (We're getting a Mirco!)


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 12:09:33 EDT
From: rook at bbt.com (Tony Rook)
Subject: Boston area brewpubs

I will be in Boston at the end of August and was
wanting some recommendations for some good brewpubs.


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 7:55:57 CDT
From: raudins at galt.b17d.ingr.com (Glenn Raudins)
Subject: BrewTeck CL-26 British Draft Ale


  What brewery is the origin of BrewTek's CL-26 British Draft Ale?
  Maribeth, please let us know if the origin is known.

  Having just got the Brewer's Resource catalog, I'd say that they have a
  good selection in the yeast culturing department.  Including the ability
  to by pre-poured slants and petri dishes for your own culturing.
  [Standard disclaimers apply.]

Glenn Raudins
raudins at galt.b17d.ingr.com


Return to table of contents


Date:     Fri, 23 Jul 93 8:54:37 EDT
From: "Darren L. Ward" (FSAC-FCD) <dward at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  Alternate source of sugar & flavors

	Has anyone ever though of using a jelly or preserve to flavor a
batch?  Just wondering how it worked, I don't recall seeing any posts
mentioning it.  Might be worth a try.

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 9:29:51 EDT
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Hot liquor tanks

I am in the continual process of improving my brewery and I have a
question for the digest:

Has anyone converted a hot water heater into a hot liquor tank?  I
have two options: 220V electric with 2 elements or a gas fired unit.
I was considering the gas fired unit, and thinking of running it
on propane but my question is how do I defeat/replace the thermostat
so that I can "dial up" 180F water?  Can electric units handle this,
or is the time to reheat too great to be practical? I was thinking 
that Grainger might have a thermostat replacement, anyone know?

Good brewing,
Jim Busch

DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER!

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 06:39:47 PDT
From: Your recipe is so tasty 23-Jul-1993 0938 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Transporting Homebrew in cornelius kegs

I've been asked to supply homebrew for a party in Salem MA in August.  I have
a keg (cornelius) of wheat brew in my basement aging that is going to be the
one to bring.  I have to transport this from littleton MA to Salem, about 45
miles or so.  I want to do this the day of the party.   Can the keg/brew handle
this?  What kind of settling time, if any, is needed?  I plan to have the
beer pre-chilled, that is, i'll take it from my fridge and bring it to the
party (1 hr drive)...  Should I drop the pressure inside the keg to nearly 
zero?  Increase it to 30???

pointer, hints, appreciated.

JC
Digital
Littleton MA 01460
ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 08:54 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Crushoff in Portland

 
 There have been rumors that a certain grainmill producer plans on conducting 
 a mill evaluation of sorts in Portland.  My first reaction was to grab a new 
 MALTMILL and head for Portland to defend the fort.  This was based on 
 information he is promulgating that portrays the MM as no better then the 
 Corona.  Turns out, all his hype is based on unscientific tests that seem to 
 prove nothing.  As it is unlikely that the proper equipment will be available 
 in Portland, I decided it was not worth the expense and hassle just to prove 
 what most of us already know.
 
 To avoid the feeling of fiddling while Rome is burning, I dropped some 
 samples of milled product off at Siebel Institute for an unbiased evaluation 
 of the grist of the MALTMILL and the other mill.
 
 The results confirmed what George Fix reported a year ago and experience on 
 over a thousand units has demonstrated.  The adjustable MM provides a grist 
 that is comparable to a multistage commercial mill.  The fixed MM provides a 
 very satisfactory grist but is a bit coarser and somewhat grain dependant.
 The other mill, when properly adjusted provides a sieve analysis similar to a 
 fixed MM on paper but visual analysis shows more husk damage.  Unfortunately, 
 the sieve analysis can not tell the difference between small husk particles 
 and similar sized malt particles that pass through a sieve.  It was designed 
 to test roller mills and not grinders or hybrids such as the other mill.
 
 For those going to Portland, there will be a MM on display in the TKO 
 Software booth and Tom Nelson will have flyers and data sheets to hand out. 
 Feel free to fondle it.  I am confident you will conclude that there is far 
 more than the nuances of grist variation involved in selecting a grain mill.
 
 js
 
 
 

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 17:30:32 BST
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re : syphoning through hops

I employ Kinney's tip on using pot scrubbers to prevent hops clogging the
syphon, but my system is more a mesh-bag-in-a-pot-scrubber than
a pot-scrubber-in-a-bag. Reason? It makes sense to apply a series of
progressively finer filters in order to prevent the mesh from clogging too
quickly.

- -- 
Conn V Copas
Loughborough University of Technology          tel : +44 (0)509 222689
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre     fax : +44 (0)509 610815      
Leicestershire  LE11 3TU              e-mail - (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut   
G Britain                                      (Internet):C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 09:55:37 -0600 (CST)
From: John Mare <cjohnm at ccit.arizona.edu>
Subject: RE: Priming, sugar vs. malt extract vs. gyle

Rich asks for comments about the virtues of corn sugar, dry malt extract and
gyle as priming agents. When I first started brewing I used corn sugar which
worked OK, but then having decided to brew "all malt" only I switched to
gyle which was also good, but less convenient to use. I now use only dried
malt extract for priming. For English or Scottish style ales I use 1.25 cups
light dry extract dissolved in 2 pints water, boiled for 10 minutes, cooled,
& poured into my sanitized "bottling bin" (a plastic fermentor with spigot.
I then siphon the beer from my glass carboy (which allows good mixing
without much oxygenation), allow it to stand for about 15 minutes while
arranging bottles, and then bottle. For American style ales, California
Common beer, or lagers I use 1.33 cups of malt extract which results in
slightly higher carbonation. No more gushers as I had with corn sugar.
John of John's Alehouse.

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 13:17:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Stephen Brent Peters <sp2q+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Sierra Nevada

My girlfriend is moving to Chico California where Sierra Nevada is
located.  I'm trying to decide if I should go with her, stay in PA, or
go somewhere else.

I have a liberal arts degree from an American University in the top
twenty, and I've been homebrewing like crazy for two years.

How likely is it that I could knock on their front door and get a job
 - any job - with SN?

Any Clues?

               Steve Peters =  sp2q at andrew.cmu.edu             
                  *Oxnar demands a _Sacrifice!_*                      

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 11:06:23 PDT
From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz at hoptech.com>
Subject: CO2, Old book, Portland

Several posts have appeared recently about filling CO2 cylinders:

To the poster that got it filled at the bar, yes you got ripped
off.  Go to a welding supply, fire ext. supply or look in the YP
under Carbon Dioxide.  It does pay to shop around as prices vary.

When I bought my second CO2 tank, I asked if it was possible to 
fill an empty tank from a full one.  Technically, it will work,
but it was explained to me as being very dangerous!  This was
because the tank being filled will heat up and explode if it
is done too fast and without the proper equipment.  In fact,
most of the welding gas suppliers in my area don't actually fill
tanks anymore, but exchange them.  The filling is done in a central
facility.  Bottom line:  Don't mess with it.  It can be fatal to 
you and your neighbors!

On another topic, I was at the UC Davis library's "brewing room"
recently and I came across a very old book by E. R. Southby called
"Practical Brewing".  It had a lot of interesting information on
hops and hopping rates (the only stuff I copied, naturally) but
the book had no date on it.  The library's computer (actually the
Melvyl system) also had no date for the book or the author.  The
book was published in England, I would guess around 1890, but I
like to know for sure.  Does anybody have any clues?  Southby had
died a few years previous to this edition (the third).  If anyone
has any info on Southby or the book, I would appreciate it.  There
were many other old books there and I copied the hops data out of
three.  I'll summarize and post soon.  You'll find it very 
interesting.

Related to my trip to Davis, I also got some better info on the
"hop storage curve".  There were two good articles and as soon as
I've had a chance to digest them, I'll post an update to my storage
post.

Lastly, I'll be in Portland for the Oregon Brewer's Festival (but not
the AHA event) at the Hopunion booth if anyone wants to drop by and
chat or say howdy.  How many of us will be there on the weekend?
Should we do a pub crawl on Friday night maybe?

Mark





Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 14:33 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Hermaphrodite hops/Alcohol as sterilant/Gone to Portland

Joel writes:
>I have discovered that one of the Centennials has a few male flowers
>on it.  Is this common?  If so, how do commercial growers prevent
>pollenation?

Are you sure they are not just immature cones?  I made this mistake
last year.  I thought the "spiked cones" were males... they weren't.

*******************
Tom writes:
>Roger Deschner writes about using 
>cheap vodka for sterilizing, a great 
>advantage  being that its food-grade, 
>and alcohol is a beer-component 
>anyway.
>
>I use the same spray-bottle approach, 
>but instead of vodka (60 - 80 proof), 
>I use Everclear(tm) which is like 98 
>proof grain alcohol, made for spiking 

According to the latest Brewing Techniques, the contact time for
alcohol sanitation is 30 minutes.

*******************

Inevitably, when I don't post to the HBD for a week, I get a flurry of
private emails that either:

1.  ask if I'm boycotting the HBD for some reason, or

2.  all the people who disagreed with me in the last month
    send me appologies.


Don't, don't, don't panic...  I'm just off to the National Conference.
Hope to see some of you there!

Al.

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 13:58:22 PDT
From: bill at oilsystems.com (Bill Vaughan)
Subject: Blowoff, Iodophor, Sterilizing bottles


Here are a few data points to add to the debates:

Blowoff -- fortuitously, my last batch of "plain jane" got split into its
carboys unevenly.  Consequently, one blew off and one didn't.  Of course, the
best test would have been if I had kegged both carboys or bottled both, but
in fact I kegged the one that did blow off and bottled the other.  Anyhow,
at kegging/bottling time, I could definitely taste the difference between
the with-blowoff and without-blowoff carboys.  The without-blowoff carboy
had a tad more bitterness and was slightly "harsher."
   I have never done this kind of direct comparison before and frankly did
not expect to taste any difference at all.  Surprise.  The only problem is
that I just bought 2 more acid carboys (7-gal) and I can't ever fill them
enough to get a blowoff.  Maybe I shall use water carboys for my delicately-
flavored brews and acid carboys for the chewy dark ales.  I dunno.

Iodophor -- I have been using iodophor (BTF, I think) to sterilize my kegs.
I use the recommended amount for the recommended time and air-dry.  Then I
give the keg the sniff test.  If I smell ANY iodine, I rinse the keg with
boiling water.  So far I have ALWAYS smelled iodine.  I am not about to buy
another bottle of iodophor.  To me, the slightest iodine flavor would spoil
the batch and I hate to throw out 5 gal.  I suspect that boiling water alone
may work -- or else I shall go back to weak clorox followed by boiling water
rinse.  Let's face it -- kegs aren't that expensive.  If I get pinholes in
the s/s after, say, 5 years, the keg has cost me maybe 5 bucks a year.  (Of
course, if it's only ONE year, I'd feel different.)

Sterilizing bottles -- I have always sterilized my bottles in the dishwasher.
I clean the bottles thoroughly with TSP, in the sink, scrub them and rinse them
carefully.  Then they go in the dishwasher for a full wash cycle with NO
detergent, and a HEAT DRY (not air dry) cycle.  Naturally I prepare the
dishwasher first by cleaning all the guck out of it and running it once
while empty.  Bottom line -- Mary and I have never had a bad batch that
could be attributed to unsterile bottles.  (I.e. either the whole batch was
uniformly bad or uniformly good.  We did have an episode where our yeast
starters got infected once.)
   I have mild asthma and Mary has it bad.  We have to be careful about
sulfites.  All you homebrewers, please remember that Campden tablets and
bisulfite sterilants can make your homebrew toxic to those with respiratory
problems.
   BTW, whenever I have a chance I sterilize with boiling water in lieu of
chlorine.  This only works for small stuff like airlocks but is quite
effective and there is no danger of chlorophenol or iodine contamination.
I think it is just common sense to eschew toxic substances wherever possible.

- --Bill

Return to table of contents


Date: 23 Jul 1993 14:55:19 U
From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.edu>
Subject: On to Portland!

Subject:  On to Portland!                       Time:2:43 PM     Date:7/23/93
Well the stickers are made and I'm heading north on Saturday to collect some
beer and find Portland. Come and find me at the conference and I'll present you
with your computer brewer id!

RW...

Russ Wigglesworth (INTERNET: Rad_Equipment at radmac1.ucsf.edu - CI$: 72300,61)
UCSF Dept. of Radiology, San Francisco, CA (415) 476-3668 / Home (707) 769-0425


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 14:58:42 PDT
From: Don_Doyle at Novell.COM (Don Doyle)
Subject: Helpful Brewers


I wanted to extend thanks to the brewers that have replied to questions I
have submitted and encourage other brewers to use HBD to also do so. It
will invite new thoughts or re-thinking of those brewers who want to stay
sharp.

Again thanks,

Don Doyle

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 09:17:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Old Hops

> From: birkelan at adtaz.sps.mot.com (Joel Birkeland)
> Subject: hops: Arizona/hermaphrodite/antique
> 
> Antique Hops:
> 
> A portion of my parent's farm in Oregon was once used for raising hops.
> Apparently this was a fairly large scale operation, since there was a 
> rather large outbuilding dedicated to hop drying (oast?).  The previous
> owners probably quit hop farming in the thirties or forties, but some
> hop plants have persisted in the wild.
> 
> Could anyone hazard a guess as to the variety of these hops?  I suspect
> that they are not considered a desirable type any longer, but I would 
> like to brew a batch with them, for sentimental reasons, and I would like
> to get as much information as possible beforehand.
> 

American hops were not highly thought of in brewing circles until quite
recently, and for good reason.  I would be willing to bet that the stuff
growing on your parents' farm are Clusters in some form or other.  It's
amazing to me that some people are still brewing with these hops, which
used to be considered high alpha -- they have no other redeeming quality
as far as I can tell.  The British referred to American hops as being
"catty", which meant nothing to me until I smelled some Clusters: they
smelled just like a catbox.

I have some terrific old photographs, courtesy of the Oregon Historical
Society, of old hop farming, some dating back to the turn of the
century, and some from the period in which your old hop farmer quit.
During the 20s-40s (judging from the clothing), at least some of the
Oregon hop growers were training their hops along low-lying strings,

- --Jeff


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1993 03:12:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: waltman at BIX.com
Subject: What is a microbrewery?


Maybe we should come up with terminology describing individual beers by the
size of the batch. (My understanding that the legal definitions of
microbreweries {for tax purposes}are based on the aggregate annual
production of the entire brewery.) I think this would help differentiate
those beers that are brewed in megabrewery size batches a few times a year
as opposed to those that are brewed more often in smaller batches. This is
not to imply that smaller is better, but I think it could make for more
rational comparisions. Just my $.02 worth.

Fred Waltman
Marina del Rey, CA
waltman at bix.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1993 08:42:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kieran O'Connor <koconnor at mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: Brewing Techniques Info

Hi--a fair number of you sent me mail regarding Brewing Techniques. here's
the info:

Brewing Techniques
PO BOX 3222
Eugene, Oregon 97403

(503) 687-8534.

They take credit cards for orders-so it looks like you could just call.
Its 24$/yr for six issues.

You shoudl be able to find it in your local supplier--and the one around
here discounted the first isue since the second issue is now out.

The first issue had 42 pages of text--a fair amount of which was articles:

1)Facftors Affecting Hop Quality,...and Brewers Preference.
2)Belgian Malts--some pratical observations
3) Reinheitsgebot and the fifth ingredient
4) The Troubleshooter--an advice column--w/o the Hbd
5) Brewing in styles--a changing discussion on styles and how to brew them
6) Thinking about recpe formulation
7) Spreadsheet recipe design
8) And a bunch of assorted smaller depts--a book review, and a few others.

Overall I think the first effort was quite good. In fact a few of the
articles mentioned above were written by HBD'ers with extensive knowledge.
BT looks quite promising and I tihnk I got more info from this one issue
than I got from that other thing in a year.


Kieran O'Connor

E-Mail Address: koconnor at lor.syr.edu
Syracuse, N.Y. USA




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 24 Jul 93 10:07:18 EDT
From: ab126 at freenet.carleton.ca (Jay Cadieux)
Subject: Calories and beer


Does anyone know a formula to calculate the amount of calories in beer,
based on original gravity, terminal gravity, etc.?


- --
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jay A. Cadieux (ab126 at freenet.carleton.ca, 1:163/277.1 at fidonet.org). 
"Be the master of your shadow, not the shadow of your master" - Nietzsche
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1993 17:31:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kieran O'Connor <koconnor at mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: Brewing Techniques Update


Sorry Folks--BT has a new phone number:
(503) 687-2993.
Fax (503) 687-8534.

Disregard the number in my first post.

And here's another rant aobut that national organization. Did you know (I
did not) that you have to be an AHA member to be a certified beer judge?
Sort of like a bribe--no?



Kieran O'Connor

E-Mail Address: koconnor at lor.syr.edu
Syracuse, N.Y. USA




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1993 19:15:39 -0500
From: donald oconnor <oconnor at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: northwestern is briess


curious report on friday of someone making good beer with northwestern
extract but having trouble with briess since they are exactly the same.
northwestern gets briess in drums and pails just like the one the
individual purchased and repackages it in plastic bags in a box.

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 25 Jul 93 02:37 CDT
From: akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli)
Subject: Crazey Train Update

Crazy Train Update:  Minot, North Dakota

 - Breweries past and noted: Sprecher, Miller.

 - Honker's Ale quarter barrel was sucked dry by midnite.

 - North Dakota is *really* flat, just in case you're wondering.

 - Saw a Prairie Dog at the geographic center of North America.

 - Kathy Ireland is a real party animal.

 - Miller Clear was delivered at midnight by a Minneapolis beer geek.

 - Someone was quoted as saying: "Oh that skull has hurt me", followed by
an hour of psychotic moaning.

 - Currently listening to Crazy Train tape #5 on player #2.

 - Picked up a cabin boy, who was well paid in beer.

 - Frank "The Pharaoh" Boone makes a jolly breakfast beer.

 - Most of the Belgian beer disappeared in a midnight frenzy.

 - Ed Bronson failed in his efforts to convert a luggage compartment to a
sleeper, twice.

 - The upper Mississippi is really flooded so downstream beware.

 - John Isenhour, who was the 1st and 2nd to pass-out was the 1st to wake
up and start drinking again.

<more to come>

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1993 12:30:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
Subject: Mashing Specialty Malts, Calculating PPMs

I'm an extract brewer moving to all-grain.  Which specialty malts 
must be mashed, e.g., crystal, black, chocolate, cara-pils.  

A question for the chemists out there, when calculating water
treatment, how does one calculate quantities of salts to hit
target PPMs?  I always assumed that PPM is based on numbers 
of ATOMS, but when I do the arithmetic using molecular weights
and avogadro's number I do not get the same results as Papazian
in TNCJHB and Miller in TCHHB.  Tried both hydrated and anhydrous
gypsum.

Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
venezia at zgi.com



Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #1189, 07/26/93