HOMEBREW Digest #1256 Wed 27 October 1993

Digest #1255 Digest #1257

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  I want to meet her (arne thormodsen)
  Agrees with COPS show (Mike Lemons)
  wyeast/spruce/distillation temps/and more... (Brian Bliss)
  Re: Eisbock (btalk)
  PH Malt, Beer Drinks (David Holsclaw)
  The 'C' word (Domenick Venezia)
  Cider Reply (Mike Christy TEST SOFTWARE AUTOMATION x8466)
  Liquid Yeast: Friend or Fiend (Dean Cookson)
  Beer hunting in Belgium: Part 5 (Oud Beersel) ("Phillip Seitz")
  Distillation/Grain Storage/Iodophor ("Robert H. Reed")
  Grain,  (Jack Schmidling)
  barleywine yeast-handling (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570)
  Re: 120F sweet wort?? (Jim Busch)
  Polyethylene Mashout (Jack Schmidling) 
  wort chillers (SCHREMPP_MIKE/HP4200_42)
  wyeast2308 (btalk)
  Plans for Grain Mill (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Filtering / Roller Mills (npyle)
  Hot Priming/Keg Request (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Beer Drinks (Mark Stickler Internet Mail Name)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 23 Oct 93 17:50:37 -0700 From: arne thormodsen <arnet at kaibutsu.cup.hp.com> Subject: I want to meet her ===== _____________________________________________________________________________ 'Hey Ma'am! I'm not an athlete. I'm a ball | Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL player' - John Kruk, Phillies firstbaseman | Dept of Chemical Engineering, responding to a woman who told him he was a | Notre Dame, IN 46556 bad athletic role model sitting at a bar | ulick at darwin.cc.nd.edu drinking and smoking. | - ------------------------------ ===== Hey, I want to meet the woman who had the nerve to say this while she was drinking and smoking ;-) - --arne P.S. - I'm available, but a bear to get along with :-) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 93 18:14:21 PDT From: mikel at netlink.nix.com (Mike Lemons) Subject: Agrees with COPS show >From HBD 1253: > *Can you say DEATH & BLINDNESS! Ethyl alcohol goes to a vapor within > a specific temperature range ( I ain't gonna quote it!) while OTHER > alcohols vaporize at different temps. While ethanol won't do us any > harm...well...maybe a little nausea in excess...a bit of a headache... > some other alcohols, or components of a ferment could do some harm. > If it's done right- sure you can get a fine distilled product. I even > tried one once- could've dropped it in a NA beer too, but I wanted to > try it straight. Tasty it was! (peeka boo!) > I don't have all the chemistry here to explain it...but there are > dangers in distilling. That is WHY there are real laws about it, and > why those WILL be enforced, as depicted by such "fine" TV programs. > Look it up in a library. Most universities will have something on it. > > "I can't see I can't see" John (The Coyote) Wyllie > "Why not?!" SLK6P at cc.usu.edu > "I got my eyes shut! Nyuck Nyuck" > ****************************************************************** Wow! Somebody actually agrees with that stupid COPS show! I thought I would never see the day. I don't know what he expects us to look up. Somebody doesn't realize that methyl alcohol was intentionally added to "bathtub gin" during prohibition to increase its intoxicating ability. Poisonous, but it will get you drunk. The gorvernment arrests people who operate a still because they want their alcohol taxes. If they tell you that they do it for your protection, just remember that they told Indians the same thing when they took their land. - -- INTERNET: mikel at netlink.nix.com (Mike Lemons) UUCP: ...!ryptyde!netlink!mikel Network Information eXchange * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115 Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 93 20:54:19 -0500 From: bliss at pixel.convex.com (Brian Bliss) Subject: wyeast/spruce/distillation temps/and more... In response to the responses to the "why doesnt wyeast take off quick enough" post(s): I assume that it is accepted as fast that you need to make a starter to get the yeast population up to adequate pitching amounts. 1) the wyeast package misadvertizes that you do not need to. 2) there package should be large enough that you don't need to. if the entire idea behind the "pop the inner-pouch, let it swell" design was to eliminate the need for a starter, it has failed. 3) why can't wyeast make a package that does the aformentioned? Industrial yeast propogation is certainly expensive, but more from the overhead point of view that the per-unit standpoint. It would not cost that much more to put more yeast in the package. perhaps the size of the package is a factor, and and more nutrient in a larger pouch would be substantially more expensive. perhaps a cheap plastic pressure relief valve? 4) I find that hopping my starters substantialy cuts down on the numer of infected ones. I still throw out 1/2 of my wyeast starters because they do not smell/taste questionable. I have NEVER had an infected batch from dry whitbread ale yeast. 5) I am not satisfied with the performance of wyeast as a whole. The last pouch I bought took 5 days to swell, then I made a starter and it went sour. I do not lead a life that can adjust my brewing schedule around when thedamn package swells. I'm sure 95% of the human population have jobs which are even less flexible than mine. 6) I still buy wyeast and try to use it for those batches which require a special flavor from the yeast. I wish there were an alternative... It would not take that much more work to provide us with a packaging that has a larger yeast population developed before you open it. 7) I do not dipuste the quality of the yeast when it actually works. - ------------------------------ > >When should Alpha Amalyse be used? >Thanks,Steve > Amylase (sp!) is a combination of alpha and beta amylase. Two I think the original poster also asked "how much should be used?". How many oz of amanlyze enzyme that you buy in a bottle is the equivalent of that in 1 lb of lager malt at 100 Lintner? - ------------------------------ >Kevin asks: >>Why do you consider distilling to be dangerous? There is an element of risk >> involved with making anything. (including fried chicken) Distillers simply >> take a fermented product and evaporate and condense the alcohol. >>Illegal? Yes. Dangerous? Hardly. > *Can you say DEATH & BLINDNESS! Ethyl alcohol goes to a vapor within > a specific temperature range ( I ain't gonna quote it!) while OTHER > alcohols vaporize at different temps. just for my information, what are those temps? what's the boiling point of methanol, ethanol, CH3(n(CH2))OH, and at what temps should distillation take place? - ------------------------------ >So, here's a question for all you Thermodynamic type people: how effective >would a 30 foot length of 3/8" diameter, coiled copper tubing, be in >a 2 foot long, 4" inside diameter, PVC pipe? Essentially, I want to place >the coil inside the PVC, with the ends of the coil entering and exiting >the capped ends of the PVC. The cooling water would enter the capped >ends as well, but counter-flow. The "coil" diameter would be about 3.5", >resulting in a circumference of about 11". With each "coil" spaced about >1/4" apart, the length would be about 2 feet. Of course the length and >size of the copper tubing can be altered, (the PVC diameter is the max. I >can get) but, is the idea feasible? Any comments appreciated. try wrapping the copper tubing around a 2.5" PVC pipe, and place the entire thing inside the 4" pipe. seal off the inside of the inner pipe. the design could ceratainly be adequate, but in your proposed design, there would be a large amound of water that would flow near the center of the tube that would never come near the copper pipe. It would work, but require more water. - ------------------------------ Regina Harrison writes: > I just wanted to say a word in defense of spruce beer- I made a >batch using Papazian's recipe, with 1 oz of spruce essence, and it >was good. Yes, it was odd, earthy even, but I grew up drinking the >soda versions of birch and spruce beer. My spruce beer had similar >taste without the sugar. It may be that spruce essences and extracts >are highly variable in quality... Batch #9 of mine was a spruce "steam beer", i.e. bruce & kay's honey spruce lager, but fermented at ale temps. I used one 14ml bottle of Leigh-Williams spruce extract. quite good indeed, but had a solvent-like flavor when served a low temps - at 55 it was great! I defininetly would not use more spruce extract, and if someone who lives in the Dallas area wants 2 more bottles of it (I still have 3 more, and would rather "concentrate" on barleywine) - ------------------------------ mrgarti at xyplex.com writes: >what are people using to store their grain in? >how long, under good conditions, will the grain be >fresh? besides rats, are there any problems associated >with buying and keeping 50 lbs of grain? don't worry about it, at least not if it's uncrushed... Oh my, I used the C-word! (or is that the un-C-word? :-) bb Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 93 10:58:59 EDT From: btalk at aol.com Subject: Re: Eisbock The recent talk about distillation got me thinking... I've got a pretty good recipe fpr Doppelbock and was wondering about Eisbock. If I WERE to freeze my Doppelbock, would freezing it in a cornelius keg be agood idea. It seems then I could open it to get the ice out easily. I doubt the ice would be in one nice chunk. probably more like slush? How to recarbonate( besides forced co2 in the can)? Any ideas, if I WERE to try this? Bob Talkiewicz Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1993 11:52:00 +22306512 (CDT) From: dhholscl at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (David Holsclaw) Subject: PH Malt, Beer Drinks Greetings, I have a question about the use of PH malt and hope that someone out there has an answer. After receiving back comments on several of my brews, and after purchasing a PH meter, I come to the realization that my mash PH's are WAY TO HIGH!! They are in the range of 6.6 - 7.0 for a pale ale. Unless I am mistaken, they should be more in the range of 5.0 - 5.5. I have tried adding several teaspoons of gypsum to the mash but am yet to see any change. It was suggested to me that I try some PH malt. For those of you who have not seen (or tasted) this stuff, it is barley malt that has been allowed to partially "rot" for lack of a better term. This creates a very acidic malt that allows brewers to lower their mash PH and still meet the German Purity Laws. My question is, how much should I use in a 5 gallon batch with 9 - 10 lbs. of other grains? Has anyone else had problems like this with mash PH? What do you do? Beer Drink: My favorite starts out with a 32 oz glass with two commercial beers in it (I wouldn't treat my beer like this). Then you add one or two (depending on your mood) shots of Canadian Mist and then the trully unique ingrediant. One raw egg is cracked into the glass and allowed to sit unbroken on the bottom of the glass. The idea of the drink is to "slam" the whole thing in one drink and believe me, when you see that raw egg start to slide down the side of the glass it gives you the incentive to keep all that liquid moving quickly. :) We call this drink "The Chicken Maker" and it is a New Years tradition. Enjoy!! Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1993 10:01:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com> Subject: The 'C' word Chris Campanelli writes: >I won't tell you how I grind my malt because I'll >then be forced to use the "C" word. Then Brian Bliss writes: >"Crack"? "Cremate"? >Oooooooh - "C R U _ _". (Hint - rhymes with "Lush"). >Now if we could just manage to avoid using "Mash", "Sparge", >"Efficiency", and "Lactic", maybe we could keep the hbd down >to a reasonable size... Chris, correct me if I'm wrong, but I took the 'C' word to be: "C O R O _ _". (Hint - ryhmes with "Bologna"). BTW - I found the now infamous "faking orgasm" signoff message by Diane Palme quite amusing, but I must admit that I am not much of a fan -- of Basketball. And I suspect that Chris Lyons' rather prudish response stems from the striking of some personal and painfull chord. Chris, ... relax, don't worry, have a homebrew. Domenick Venezia ZymoGenetics, Inc. venezia at zgi.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 03:25:27 -0700 From: mchristy%spc.dnet at gpo.nsc.com (Mike Christy TEST SOFTWARE AUTOMATION x8466) Subject: Cider Reply Martin W. - I cant get back to you cause of the ccm! in your address so I'll answer you here... From what I understand, there is naturally occurring apple type yeast in the cider which makes it "go bad". When I make a batch, I usually dissolve the sugar, either white or brown, in a little warm cider first then added it back to rest. It seems the yeast have a harder time with the white sugar and this seems to leave a sweeter result. They eat almost all the brown. The batch I made this weekend used 1/2 cup frozen sliced strawberries, 1/2 cup white sugar, 1 gallon cider.... I'll let you know how it turns out around new years. Good luck - mike Martin W. - I cant get back to you cause of the ccm! in your address so I'll answer you here... From what I understand, there is naturally occurring apple type yeast in the cider which makes it "go bad". When I make a batch, I usually dissolve the sugar, either white or brown, in a little warm cider first then added it back to rest. It seems the yeast have a harder time with the white sugar and this seems to leave a sweeter result. They eat almost all the brown. The batch I made this weekend used 1/2 cup frozen sliced strawberries, 1/2 cup white sugar, 1 gallon cider.... I'll let you know how it turns out around new years. Good luck - mike Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 08:50:46 EDT From: Dean Cookson <cookson at mbunix.mitre.org> Subject: Liquid Yeast: Friend or Fiend Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com> Writes: > In HBD 1251 Jerome asks if liquid yeast is Friend or Fiend. FRIEND!! > > Liquid yeast is a friend. My beer got much better when I switched to > liquid yeasts. Although the Wyeast package says you can just pitch > directly from the package, my experience is that this is not a good idea and > a starter is absolutely necessary. Why? The number of yeast cells in the > Wyeast package is very low and results in an incredible under pitch which > can lead to very long lag times raising the risk of infection. I used to think that too, but. On each of the last two weekends I've pitched directly from the packet. The longer of the two lag times was about 30 hours. Quite reasonable in my book. Dean Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 08:37:03 -0400 From: "Phillip Seitz" <p00644 at psilink.com> Subject: Beer hunting in Belgium: Part 5 (Oud Beersel) Beer Hunting in Belgium: Part 5 of 7 Oud Beersel - Lambic Day (by Jim Busch: BUSCH at DAACDEV1.STX.COM) Located just a short drive south of Brussels is the town of Beersel, where the Vandervelden family has been brewing lambics since 1882. We had called these people early in the day. They had informed us that the brewery only has tours at set times, but that we would be welcome if we wanted to come a week later and join a group of 30 people. We accepted this, but were a bit disappointed. Not being able to visit this brewery, we decided to venture elsewhere in search of lambic-type beers. Our first stop was an accidental discovery in the small town of St. Genesius-Rode, located south of Brussels and east of Beersel. There we found beer hunting heaven, Drinks Wets (209 Steenweg op Halle), a Belgian version of Liquor Barn. In this beer store one can find a entire wall full of lambics, some with the "old style" white-washed bottles, some with big names like Cantillion and Frank Boon, and some actually oozing lambic out of the wet cork (Hannsens). Our shopping carts quickly filled with lambics, Belgian specials and Abbey beers and of course, Belgian glassware. Fortunately for us, they accepted VISA! We each departed with a hefty load of some really diverse beers. The day was young and we were already quite pleased with the results. We ventured on to Beersel, in search of the cafe that Michael Jackson notes in his book on Belgium beers (The Three Fountains). When we arrived we realized the cafe was closed on Tuesdays, the day of our visit. We got a bite to eat next door and inquired about good beers of the area. We were informed that Oud Beersel was the best lambic around and the brewery, being right on the other side of the town, and a must visit. Off we went, and following the Oud Beersel signs we had little difficulty finding the brewery. The outside features red and white tiles with the words: Kriek/Gueuze. Upon entering, an older man began a discussion in French with Phil, that I was not in tune to. Much back and forth ensued, with the occasional apology offered from Phil. Soon I was informed that the discussion centered on the fact that we had called earlier and were told NO, only to arrive later anyway. Phil successfully explained that we had no idea that Oud Beersel Brewery and the Vandervelden were the same thing. It helped at this point to inquire about purchasing their lambics, and sure enough we were informed that beer was available for sale, as long as we were willing to buy it by the case. No problem. We got six 750 ml bottles each of Kriek and Gueuze. The beer was stored in the traditional manner, on the side with a swath of white or pink paint to indicate "up". After some discussion, it was decided that labels might help, since we already were transporting a ton of beer around the country. The brewer glued the labels on one by one. While Phil was busy taking care of this important activity, I ran back to the car for my camera, and started shooting pictures of the place. Eventually we asked enough questions that we were given an unofficial tour. A typical lambic brewery, the mash tun and boil kettle are weathered insulated cylinders, the insulation being held on with duct tape. A vertical system was in use, where a masonry-built painted grain shoot feeds the mash tun. Everything was quite dusty, with wooden planks forming a second tier walkway for the brewer to work on the top of the tanks. I was constantly concerned that I would fall through this very crude arrangement. There were two separator/cooling tanks, if one can call them a tank. They were basically a coolship in the shape of a tall bath tub, with slotted plates on the bottom. This was the traditional cool ship, where the hot and cold breaks settle out and the initial inoculation of the local microbes begins. (One note: this takes place deep in the interior of the brewery; there appears to be little direct exposure to outdoor air.) I recall a comment that the wort sits in this overnight. After exiting the coolship, the wort is transferred into one of two large primary fermentation tanks, constructed of metal. After a primary fermentation period, the beer is racked into Chestnut casks--the brewer swears by them and recoiled with horror at the possibility of using oak. The casks are marked and stored in the lambic way, noting the dates and contents on the face of the cask. Of note in this brewery is the wall full of hand cooperage tools from the mid nineteenth century. Also of note is the old barrel cleaning device, a frame in which the cask is suspended, allowing it to be rotated with hot water and chains inside to "knock" off the gunk. This is nearly identical to the arrangement at the Cantillon brewery. The brewer himself (presumably Mr. Vandervelden) is getting on in years, though hardly decrepit. He informed us that his young nephew was now in the business, which is likely to stay open for a good while. They're not getting rich, but the brewery makes enough money to stay open and support their families. Most sales are to serious beer connoisseurs--the popular market provides little if any support. The beers: In my opinion, these beers are certainly traditional lambics, dry nearly to austerity, and exhibiting a flavor and aroma profile that has some horsehair and saddle notes. This is not to say I disliked them; on the contrary, they are good, enjoyable lambics. The Kriek had definite cherry notes and flavor, but not in the dominant way that a Frank Boon or Hannsens does. It is more of a subdued and blended flavor. It's color is almost fluorescent pink. The gueuze is a good example of a traditional lambic, but nowhere near as tart and acidic as a Cantillion, nor as sweet as the Belle Vue-like beers. In comparison with other lambic products, the Oud Beersel beers are less rich than some others (if this is a word that can be used to describe beers as attenuated as these!). The beers are certainly less horsey than the Girardin products, less fruity than Hanssens, less extreme than Cantillon but also lacking in some of Cantillon's satisfying lactic character. Obviously, though, none of these are what the average lager drinkers are going to warm up to, and if you're into lambic beers the differences are ones that you'd enjoy exploring. Oud Beersel products do not appear to be widely distributed, but can be purchased at the brewery, and also in some stores in Beersel (of which there are not many). We saw them for sale in the delicatessen across from the church, next door to the 3 Fountains. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 10:23:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Robert H. Reed" <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com> Subject: Distillation/Grain Storage/Iodophor Coyote writes: > *Can you say DEATH & BLINDNESS! Ethyl alcohol goes to a vapor within > a specific temperature range ( I ain't gonna quote it!) while OTHER > alcohols vaporize at different temps. While ethanol won't do us any > harm...well...maybe a little nausea in excess...a bit of a headache... > some other alcohols, or components of a ferment could do some harm. Isn't Methanol(wood alcohol) the usual culprit in death and blindness cases resulting from consumption of illegally distilled adult beverages? I always thought this was not a result of the distillation process, but due to the *bad stuff* that the moonshiners put in their mash i.e., "fermentables" other than corn, potatoes or rice, etc. Is this true? Perhaps other alcohols (fusel alcohols) could result in death in very high concentrations? Mark Garti writes: > what are people using to store their grain in? > how long, under good conditions, will the grain be > fresh? besides rats, are there any problems associated > with buying and keeping 50 lbs of grain? > mrgarti at xyplex.com I have found that the food grade containers that deli's use are good for storage of grains. I think the square mayonnaise containers work best. They are the easy to clean and the lids are fairly easy to attach and remove. I recommend filling them to the top and purging with CO2 to keep the grain as dry as possible. I have tried to use containers that pickles and salad dressings are shipped in and could never get the vinegar odor out. I suggest using mayo containers or icing containers from bakeries if you go this route. Scrub them several times to make sure they are totally clean. Question: Someone posted something regarding IODOPHOR in this or a previous HBD: what does the -phor designate in the name IODOPHOR? I have used BTF iodophor which doesn't contain phosphoric acid and I have recently obtained an iodine sanitizing solution that *does* contain phos. acid. What gives? Rob Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 09:40 CDT From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Grain, >From: garti at mrg.xyplex.com (Mark Garti) >Subject: grain storage >besides rats, are there any problems associated with buying and keeping 50 lbs of grain? The most serious problem I have is with cereal moths. They are impossible to get rid of once they find you so prevention is the best cure. Keep the containers covered at all times. >From: Steve Seaney <seaney at ie.engr.wisc.edu> >Subject: Plans for Grain Mill >The other day I saw one of Jack Schmedling's (sp?)..... ....Schmidling... > grain mills at a brew store. It doesn't appear to be that hard to make. It's not if you have all the equipment and skills needed; lots of people have but don't confuse making one for your own use with making them to sell to the public. >The cost seems extremely high. I think you mean price as you don't seem to have a handle on the costs involved in making them. Keep in mind that when one decides to retail something, the stores have to mark it up and if you sell through distributors who sell to the stores, they also take their cut. Add your own profit on to that and you will understand why the market is not flooded with inexpensive roller mills. The two that have come out since the MM should give you a clue. One has only a single roller and both are less then half the size of the MM but are only $20 less at the retail level. >Has anyone out there ever made a roller mill? Yes. I made one and it cost me $10 and a weekend. But when strangers started to buy them I had to put a value on that weekend..... > Do you have any plans handy? What do you need plans for? Just look at a MM and copy it. Nothing could be simpler :) >From: Wolfe at act-12-po.act.org >Subject: Going all-grain > First, I am considering mashing on a burner rather than using a cooler for a mash tun. Is the primary reason for using the cooler rather than a burner the reduced investment in time and money? I won't attempt to define primary reasons but the only reason I know of for using a cooler is because the are about the right form factor and being inuslated, the retain heat well. I don't see how it can be less expensive than stove top mashing because you must have a kettle in either case. > I guess I want to know how much of a hassle is it to mash on the stove as opposed to mashing in a cooler and if there are any differences in the quality of the brew. Both of these are subjective but as there are proponents of both, there is good reason to ask. The cooler requires little attention but has limited flexibility while the opposite is true of kettle mashing. > Second, because I want to mash on the stove I need to invest in a larger brew kettle. So far, I've only done high density extract & partial mash brewing so I've gotten by with only a 2.5 gallon kettle. I've found a medium-duty 7.5 gallon SS kettle with a lid and a spigot for about $100. It would be fine but you can do just as well with a $40 enamel on steel 8 gal kettle for mashing and boiling. When you want to move up to larger batches, just buy a larger boiler and use the original as a mash tun. >Third, I read a comment a while back about trying to get a 5 gallon batch of all-grain brew into a 5 gallon carboy. My suggestion is to use the kettle as a primary fermenter and move the beer to the carboy after primary is over and you will have no problem with the carboy size. I have been fermenting in my mash tun for several years now and find it terribly convenient. > I've been using a stopper and a racking can as my blowoff valve, but have heard a number of people report using a 1" pipe attached to the top of the carboy. Any insights? Take a Ritilin and pack your blowoff stuff away for one batch and try my suggestion. My guess is you will never unpack it. js Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 10:12:07 -0500 (CDT) From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570) Subject: barleywine yeast-handling You should be able to brew a barleywine using a suitable ale yeast. Pitching a second yeast, such as a champagne yeast, is not necessary. The yeast you use must be alcohol-tolerant and moderately attenuative. If there is any doubt about these properties in the yeast you intend to use, then you should try it out in a test wort first. Apparent attenuation should be about 70%, as with any beer you make. It is important to pitch an adequate amount of yeast, and this is especially true for barleywines. As a rule of thumb, for any ale, consider pitching a one-quart starter. For the typical 5- gallon batch, this represents a 1:20 volume pitch, and is easy to remember. For high-gravity beers, pitch a half-gallon starter, which represents a 1:10 volume pitch. I feel it is important to aerate the wort. The home-made aquarium pump aerator works well. Yeast that work include Wyeast "American" ale and Wyeast "British" ale. Regarding "American," consider that Chico Brewing uses it in all their ales including Bigfoot Ale, a high- gravity barleywine. Regarding "British," it is an amalgam of three yeasts: one is a fast starter that quits at low alcohol levels, a second is a slower-starting alcohol-tolerant fermenter, and the third is a "chainer" that causes the yeast to flocculate. So, if you use the right yeast and help them get started, they'll produce a barleywine with no added champagne or wine yeast. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 11:19:19 -0500 (EDT) From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> Subject: Re: 120F sweet wort?? In the last digest: <Date: Thu, 21 Oct 93 10:50 CDT From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Polyethylene Mashout <I am using Low Density Polyethylene tubing for transferring wort. It is FDA approved and has a temp range of -70 to 120F and it handles sweet wort temp just fine. I can assure you that my sweet wort is above 120F, so I wonder the widom of using 120F rated tubing in this manner. I use a cut off plastic turkey baster. Best, Jim Busch Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 15:32:00 +0000 From: SCHREMPP_MIKE/HP4200_42 at ptp.hp.com Subject: wort chillers In HBD 1253, Greg Demkowicz asks about coiling a copper tube insid a 4" PVC pipe to make a counter-flow chiller. Here's my 2cents worth: Your idea sounds like a lot less frustration than trying to slide 30 feet of copper pipe through 30 feet of garden hose. I've done it and it isn't fun. If anyone does try this, definitely use a lubricant, like soap, and plan a for a few hours of frustration. I'd suggest that you also put a length of 2" PVC (capped at both ends) down the inside of your cooling coil. This will keep the cooling water flowing around the copper coils and not down the center of your chiller. That being said, I'd also advise you to think through whether it's worth the effort of brewing with the counter flow device instead of an immersion chiller. I've gone full circle with wort chillers, from immersion to counterflow, and finally (just this weekend) back to immersion. I've found that counterflow chillers are the fastest to cool the wort, but immersion chillers are the easiest to use. My counterflow chiller was outside and was hooked to the garden hose. Using it meant sanitizing it, carrying a pot of boiling wort outside, getting the flow running, figuring out what to do with the water, and finally cleaning the thing out. What a pain in the butt! This weekend I bought the cheapest immersible pump I could get at the hardware store ($33.95 for 120gallons/hour) and I made a coil out of some 3/8" copper tubing. I use the pump to circulate water from an ice chest filled with ice and water (actually I ran the outflow into the kitchen sink, and added cold water to keep the ice chest topped up). With 20' of plastic tubing (10 at each end of the chiller), and the chiller (20' of copper), the actual flow rate of the pump was about 2q/min. I left the recirculating setup running while I sanitized my carboy. It took about 45 minutes to get from boiling down to 70F, not fast, but then I'm not into speed-brewing. Plus, the big advantages: no moving a pot of boiling wort, no sanitization hassles (I put the chiller into the boiling wort), and no flowing water to put somewhere. All told, a major improvement in lowering the stress of the brew day. Mike Schrempp Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 11:25:19 EDT From: btalk at aol.com Subject: wyeast2308 Phil Brushaber asks about this. I've made two award winning doppelbocks w/ this yeast. First made into starter culture. Fermented 3 weeks at 46-47 F,then 1 wk at 55F,rack into secondary & lager ~32 for 3 weeks. the 1 wk at 55 is called 'dicetyl rest' (sp?). Try longer lagering time if you are able. Good luck. BobTalkiewicz Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 08:51:11 PDT From: megatek!hollen at uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: Plans for Grain Mill >>>>> On Thu, 21 Oct 1993 09:17:55 -0500 (CDT), Steve Seaney <seaney at ie.engr.wisc.edu> said: Steve> The other day I saw one of Jack Schmedling's (sp?) grain mills Steve> at a brew store. It doesn't appear to be that hard to make. Steve> The cost seems extremely high. Steve> Has anyone out there ever made a roller mill? Do you have any Steve> plans handy? Well, I can remain silent no longer. So many people look at a commercial product and say exactly what Steve has. What they fail to recognize is the difficulty of actually tracking down all the specialized parts and *tools* necessary to duplicate almost any commercial product available. How long will it take you to find a supplier of just the right allen head set screw to attach the handle? Will you have to get your end mill sharpened before cutting the flat on the roller to tighten the set screw up to? How many taps will you break tapping the hole for the set screw? How many drills will you dull? Do you have the correct router bit to round over the wooden edges. How much lubricating oil will you use in milling the grooves in the rollers? How many times will you have to re-make the rollers until you get them made out of just the right kind of steel (or are you a metallurgist)? How much electricity will you use running your machines and lights while you make it? How much is your time worth? You probably will take at least 5 times longer to make a roller mill than a commercial vendor takes. Do you have a lathe and mill? How much wear and tear will you put on these expensive machine tools? Bottom line, you may be able to make any commercial product for much less than it is sold for if you ignore everything but the cost of the materials. On top of that, you are not trying to make a living out of it. If you really figure *everything* in, I would doubt you could beat the retail price by much if any at all since anyone who intends to remain in business will be buying in volume and getting prices on raw materials which you could never come close to at onesey prices. If you enjoy building things, by all means, you have my whole-hearted support to go ahead. I even wish you the good fortune to improve upon Jack's mill or any other brewing product for the betterment of all of us brewers. But, please do not make light of the effort that goes into producing the great products which are being offered to us. Knowing what it takes to produce these, I am quite satisfied that we as home-brewers are getting fair value for our money frome the vast majority of brewing equipment manufacturers. Steve, I do not mean to single you out, this thread has popped up so many times, I just took the opportunity of your post to reply to a topic which has been bugging me for a long time. Dion Hollenbeck (619)455-5590x2814 Email: hollen at megatek.com Senior Software Engineer megatek!hollen at uunet.uu.net Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California ucsd!megatek!hollen Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 9:59:38 MDT From: npyle at n33.stortek.com Subject: Filtering / Roller Mills Jim Sims asks: >Okay - I give up. How *do* I filter out those bits of gunk, fruit, >etc from the primary (or secondary) fermenter when ready to bottle, >without oxidizing? To say nothing of trying to filter out the hops, >etc *before* going _into_ the primary.... Letting it fall out of suspension, then quiet racking is the usual solution. Using a racking cane, you leave the bottom 1/2" in the vessel (this is usually the stuff you don't want). You could put a hop bag over the end of your racking cane to help it out. Using whole hops eases filtering every step of the way, BTW. Steve Seaney writes: >The other day I saw one of Jack Schmedling's (sp?) grain mills at a >brew store. It doesn't appear to be that hard to make. The cost >seems extremely high. > >Has anyone out there ever made a roller mill? Do you have any plans >handy? Steve, I've made two grain mills, with tons of help from my father-in-law the tinkerer. They _are_ hard to make, if you are going to do it right. The rollers are the key, and getting a constant distance from the shaft to the surface of the roller is the hardest part. We are talking about some very small tolerances here. The mill I now use cost about $75 in parts and many hours of labor. Jack's mill may or may not be better (I suspect it is a draw) but it is without a doubt a better "deal". IMHO, Jack's mill is worth the price. On the other hand, if you like making brewing equipment, then build it yourself. I did, and I love it! Oh, I don't have any plans handy, sorry! norm Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 12:24:35 EDT From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu Subject: Hot Priming/Keg Request Dion mentions SABCO as a source of kegs for brewing. Another vendor, with possibly lower prices, is pico-Brewing Systems (313)482-8565 / (313)485-BREW (Fax). I think they actually get their kegs from SABCO. Disclaimer: the proprietors of pico-Brewing are friends of mine, but I've got no financial interest in the company. =Spencer Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 12:52:41 EDT From: Mark Stickler Internet Mail Name <mstickle at lvh.com> Subject: Beer Drinks Just remembered a beer drink I had once. I think it was called a "Rocky Mountain Oyster Cocktail". You take a Pilsner glass, drop a tablespoon of cocktail sauce in the bottom, drop a raw oyster on top and then fill with a can of Coors. The idea is to then chug the whole thing without getting sick. The oyster usually travels down the side of the glass rather slowly and into your mouth. Not for the faint of heart or queesy. Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1256, 10/27/93