FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Hops FAQ, Part 1/5 (npyle)
  Re: Liquid male extract (Nick Nikols)
  Watney's Red Barrel Clone (Bob W Surratt)
  Cider/Grain Storg/Sick Beer/NORM!/Sig.lines (COYOTE)
  re:Brewing with nuts  (R.) Cavasin" <cav at bnr.ca>
  Apparent attenuation ... function of yeast & malt. (lyons)
  Good Head/Spruce BOIL/junk (COYOTE)
  IPA request (Montgomery_John)
  Fermenting Process question ("Palmer.John")
  New England Brew Pubs (Todd Anderson)
  Re: layered beer (Brian Bliss)
  Update on "RCA" (W. Mark Witherspoon)
  Chapel Hill and Richmond Pubs/Brewpubs (sean v. taylor)
  Sheaf & Vine Brewing Supply (korz)
  Filtering/PitchTiming/GrainStorage/Critters/WyeastMunich/ChimayYeast/HeadKillingInfection (korz)
  Hemlock Beer (FILTER)
  Nut Beer (r.mcglew3)
  homebrew club gone stale! oxidation? (/R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/)
  Info on Yeast Labs Liq. Wanted (WEIX)
  clarifying in a keg (SWEENERB)
  Thoughts on a recipe for standard American beers... ("Victor Grigorieff")
  Faking orgasms and white knights (Diane Palme x2617)
  Beer hunting in Belgium: Part 6 (Aged beer tasting) ("Phillip Seitz")
  RE: Steam injection (Mike Fertsch)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 11:13:14 MDT
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: Hops FAQ, Part 1/5

Here is part 1/5 of the Hops FAQ.  I will send one part per day, but recent HBD
activity may do any number of things to them (1 every other day, 2 in one day,
???).  I'm looking for some Internet guru who can archive this thing for me in
the near future (I have neither the time, inclination to learn, nor the
facilities to do this).  I will make one more revision if necessary, based on
HBD feedback, but don't expect me to double the number of hours I've already
put into this thing.  Anyway, after the next revision, I'd like to email the
whole thing to someone and have them archive it for me.  Any takers?  I hate
to push off some of these hot discussions about mixing beer and Koolaid, but
here goes:

******************************************************************************
HOPS FAQ, Revision 2, 10/25/93
Compiled/edited by Norm Pyle (npyle at n33.stortek.com)
Reviewed/edited by Mark Garetz (mgaretz at hoptech.com)
Reviewed/edited by Al Korzonas (korz at iepubj.att.com)

I do not have the means to credit each passage individually, nor do I think it
would make for good reading were I to do so.  The following people (and
probably many more, sorry if I miss crediting you!) have contributed to this
FAQ (some of them don't even know they contributed!):

Glenn Anderson   (gande at slims.attmail.com)
Scott Barrett    (adiron!partech.com!scott at uunet.UU.NET)
Nick Cuccia      (Nick_Cuccia at talamasca.berkeley.ca.us)
John DeCarlo     (jdecarlo at mitre.org)
Alan Edwards     (rush at xanadu.llnl.gov)
Bill Flowers     (waflowers at qnx.com)
Russ Gelinas     (R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU)
Rick Larson      (rick at adc.com)
Don Leonard      (don at tellabs.com)
John Palmer      (palmer#d#john at ssdgwy.mdc.com)
Bob Regent       (b_regent at holonet.net)
Peter Soper      (?)
Patrick Weix     (weix at swmed.edu)
Carl West        (eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM)
Ed Westemeier    (westemeier at delphi.com)
Dave Wiley       (wiley at wiley.b11.ingr.com)
Gene Zimmerman   (EZIMMERM at UWYO.EDU)

Also, Messieurs Miller, Papazian, and Rager should not be overlooked.  They
have all contributed to this FAQ, directly and indirectly.

I thank you and the HBD thanks you.  Here 'tis:

- --

Q:  What are hops?

A:  Hops are cultivated flowers (humulus lupulus) used for preservative and
flavoring characteristics in beer.  The bitterness of the hop is used to
balance the sweetness of the malt, and the essential oils add a flavor/aroma
which cannot be achieved by any other plant.  The hop plant is a perennial
spiraling vine which will grow in almost any climate given enough water and
sunlight.  It can climb either string or poles and can reach heights of over
25 feet.  The flowers (or cones as they are called sometimes) are usually
dried before use.

- --

Q: What are the compounds which provide the bittering?  What about the aroma
compounds?

A: Read on:

Bittering Compounds

One of the major contributions hops give to beer is a characteristic
bitterness that provides a counterpoint to the rich sweetness provided by the
malt.  This bitter flavor is extracted from the hops during the boil.  It is
during this time that virtually insoluble Alpha Acids are isomerized
(rearranged without changing their composition) into more soluble and stable
iso-Alpha Acids, the main bittering substance in beer.  Five different
naturally occurring Alpha Acids have been isolated from hops which are:

humulone - CH2CH(CH3)CH2
cohumulone - CH(CH3)2
adhumulone - CH(CH3)CH2CH3
prehumulone - CH2CH2CH(CH3)2
posthumulone - CH2CH3

Although isomerized Alpha Acids are the biggest contributers, hops contain
Beta Acids which also add bitterness to beer.  The Beta Acids are similar to
Alpha Acids both in structure and abundance.  In contrast to Alpha Acids, it
is not isomerized Beta Acids that add bitterness, is the oxidation products
of the Beta Acids that make their presence felt.

Both the Alpha and Beta Acids are very susceptible to oxidation, especially
at temperatures above freezing.  Losses of Alpha Acids of up to 60% are not
uncommon when hops are packaged and stored poorly.  Once Alpha Acids have
been oxidized they can no longer be isomerized into iso-Alpha Acid, thus
decreasing the hop's bittering potential.

For this reason, the "storageability" of each hop variety is often provided,
along with the Alpha and Beta Acid levels, by the hop broker. This parameter
is usually given as a percentage of the Alpha Acids present after 6 months
at 20C.  Some good storage hops (usually high Alpha Acid) lose only 15-20%
of their Alpha Acids:  Cluster, and Galena are among the best.  Most high
quality aroma hops lose anywhere from 35-65% of their bitter acids unless
anaerobic conditions and cold storage (<0c) are provided.

This is why it is imperative for brewers to buy the freshest hops available
and store them in the freezer, properly packaged.

Essential Oils

Hops bring a lot more to beer than bitterness.  The volatile oil, usually
0.5 - 3.0% (vol/wt) of hop cone, is an important part of many types of beer.
Brewers seeking to maximize hop flavor and aroma generally make late kettle
additions (0-15 min.  before cooling) with high quality "aroma" hops.  Dry
hopping, i.e. the addition of hops to the secondary fermenter or serving tank,
is another way to add hop character to a beer although the aroma components
retained by this method differ from those obtained in late kettle additions.
The maximum oil utilization is about 10 - 15% which decreases with increased
boiling time.

The essential oils are what give hops their unique aroma; each variety has
it's own distinct profile.  The smell of hops freshly crushed in your hand is
quite often different than that in a finished beer.  This is due to the fact
that the major components in hop oil, beta-pinene, myrcene, beta-caryophylene,
farnesene and alpha-humulene, are not usually found in beer.  However,
fermentation and the oxidation products of these compounds, especially
humulene epoxides and diepoxides are considered contributors to "hoppy"
flavors and aroma.  The exception here is with dry-hopping, where some of
the hop oil components do survive into the beer intact.

Researchers have not been able to duplicate the complexities of hoppy
character by adding pure chemicals in any proportion or combination.
Consensus is that there is a synergistic blend of several compounds, some
of which may have not yet been discovered.

Hop researchers, using capillary gas chromatography, have detected and
identified more than 250 essential oil components in hops.  Twenty two of
these have been pinpointed as being good indicators of hoppiness potential.
They are subdivided into 3 groups, humulene and caryophyllene oxidative
products, floral/estery compounds, and citrus/piney compounds, as listed below:

Oxidation Products:

caryolan-1-ol
caryophyllene oxide
humulene diepoxide a
humulene diepoxide b
humulene diepoxide c
humulene epoxide I
humulene epoxide II
humulene epoxide III
humulenol II
humulol

Floral/Estery Compounds:

geraniol
geranyl acetate
geranyl isobutyrate
linalool

Citrus/Piney Compounds:

delta-cadinene
gamma-cadinene
citral
limonene
limonene-10-ol
alpha-muurolene
nerol
beta-selenene

- --
End of part 1/5

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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 11:55:20 MDT
From: Nick_Nikols at Novell.COM (Nick Nikols)
Subject: Re: Liquid male extract



>>This formula uses 1.042 for a pound of
>>DME (dry malt extract) in a gallon of water, about 1.034 for 
>>LME (liquid male extract), and about 1.029 for speciality grains.  
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>Yuck! I wouldn't put that stuff in my beer!

>Geoff

I guess this must be from a recipe for Smegmabrau.

Nick

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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 12:17:02 PST
From: Bob W Surratt <Bob_W_Surratt at ccm.hf.intel.com>
Subject: Watney's Red Barrel Clone


Text item: Text_1

Does anyone have a recipe that they feel comes close to matching 
Watney's Red Barrel??  Please E-Mail any to me.  Thanks!  Bob Surratt

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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 13:13:00 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Cider/Grain Storg/Sick Beer/NORM!/Sig.lines

*****************
meade at readmore.com
asked about:
Cider
Sorbate/Sulphate

*  Potassium Sorbate is a "stabilizer"  It will not STOP an
active ferment but will inhibit initiation of growth. Both
yeast and bacteria.
  
You Don't want cider with sorbate.  Find an orchard and get
the fresh pressed- unfiltered stuff.  Much worth it!

*   Sulfating cider-  hell why not!  You DON'T want to BOIL it!
I've done it.  Personally I prefere CYSER to CIDER>  Add honey.
Makes MORE alcohol, and adds a sweeter complexity.  Straight cider
tends to become rather dry.  Cinnamon is a nice addition too.

******************
 garti at mrg.xyplex.com (Mark Garti)
Subject: grain storage

>what are people using to store their grain in?
how long, under good conditions, will the grain be
fresh?  besides rats, are there any problems associated
with buying and keeping 50 lbs of grain?

*   I like metals cans with tight fitting lids.  You can line them 
with a plastic bag to close down tighter as grain is used.
IAMS pet food commonly has gifts of cans which will hold about 30#
of grain.  You may find old square metal flour cans.  They fit better
on shelves, and hold- 20#.  Smaller cans are useful for dark and 
specialty grains.
Check your local surplus store.  Watch out for anything- wet, dirty,
smelly, or which stored chemicals!  Plastic buckets would work fine too.

Grain will store well under room temp and cooler UNGROUND for long
periods of time.  After grinding grain loses some of its potential.
The big enemy- besides rates, in my case... MICE!-  is MOISTURE.
You want to be sure to keep it dry.  Mold will do bad things to grain.

************************

>First, what kind of critters can invade a bad batch? 
What is the worst illness that you have heard of from drinking 
'bad beer'? 

*   Besides the normal nausea from drinking too much GOOD BEER!...
there are multitudes of wild yeast and bacteria which can invade
and creat off FLAVORS.  But as for getting sick...the only story I
heard of was when toot ended up with a sour stomach after drinking
the sediment from many bottles of spiced beer (clove, cinammon...etc)
and got sick from the excess spice bits reeking havoc in his tumtum.

Relax...Don't fret...Be cautious...but not 'noid! :)  Then have a brew.

***********************

To Norm Pyle- working on the HOPS faq:

*   Have you contacted Steiner's at all?  I wrote for a catalog
and price list and was sent a nice ~200pg HARDCOVER booklet on
hops- varieties- growth- dristribution...etc.  Kinda nice!  and FREE!
ok...it's actually 80 pages, with a spanish and german translation!

I believe they generally cater to BREWERIES not just brewers (like us)
I don't have the address handy- but e-mail me if you want it.
I've tried emailing you- but I get bounced.  I hate getting bounced!

***********************

About the sig. line re: Orgasms and baseball.

I guess some folks are a little sensitive.  Personally I
get a chuckle everytime I see it.  I don't think sig.lines
should be censored- just kept BRIEF!  Maybe a disclaimer at 
the beginning- noting parental discresion and what not!

Here's to Screamimg and Squirming!

********************************************************************
         John (The Coyote) Wyllie   SLK6P at cc.usu.edu
***********************   Aaaaaaack! BtC  **************************

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Date:  Mon, 25 Oct 1993 15:21:00 +0000 
From: "Rick (R.) Cavasin" <cav at bnr.ca>
Subject:  re:Brewing with nuts 

Dave Lame gives an interesting description of the use of hazel nuts in
a mead:

One caution Dave.  You have assumed that people who lived over a thousand
years ago did not do something because you think it would be impractical,
and then conclude that the only shred of evidence you have (of what they
did) is wrong based on your one experiment, when you admit that it
yielded mixed results.

Perhaps they did collect immature hazel nuts and press the juice from them
(and had some use for the leftover nuts).
Perhaps the juice of the immature hazel nut produces a superior mead.
Perhaps the juice from immature hazel nuts is water soluble.  
Maybe your source on the use of hazel nuts in 8th century Irish mead making
is wrong and they never used nuts at all.

Admittedly, it would not be practical for most people to try using immature
hazel nuts, but you shouldn't conclude that the oil produced by pouring
boiling must on mature hazel nuts is the 'real' hazel milk.  If your luck
is anything like mine, somewhere down the road a source for immature hazel
nuts will mysteriously appear. ;)

Good for you for going out and actually trying the experiment!
Cheers, Rick C.


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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 14:44:49 EDT
From: lyons%adc3 at swlvx2.msd.ray.com
Subject: Apparent attenuation ... function of yeast & malt.

Glenn Anderson in HBD 1254 askes about apparent attenuation numbers for
various yeasts.  I have had widely different apparent attenuations from
my all grain batches, most likely due to variations in the mash 
temperatures from batch-to-batch.  My records show apparent 
attenuations ranging from 52% to 78% using the same yeast (Whitbread 
dry ale yeast).  I have had very consistent apparent attenuations over
several batches with the same DME & same yeast.  However, I get completely
different apparent attenuations between different brands of DME (AA of
Laaglander <> AA of M&F) with the same yeast.  In my latest batches I have
been using Wyeast 1338 (European) liquid yeast and have gotten apparent
attenuations of 75% with M&F based recipes, and 56% with Laaglander based
recipes.  I guess my point is that although the yeast is important in
determining the apparent attenuation, the percentage of fermentable sugars
in the malt also plays a significant roll in determining the final gravity.

Question:  When companys give apparent attenuation numbers for there 
yeasts, is there a standard malt (or recipe) that they are using?


Chris Lyons

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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 14:01:21 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Good Head/Spruce BOIL/junk

******************************
Tom said:
>The problems that a lot of people have with carbonation and head retention
(including myself) may be related to infections that don't completely foul
the beer, but just add off flavors.
 ...snip...
But why does an infection kill head?  And what can I do with this 5 gallon
batch of infected brew?

*   Good Beer Head (as compared to...*slap*) requires the presense of
proteins to form stable bubbles.  Proteins surround CO2 bubbles and
establish a network structure stabilizing the bubble.  Can you
believe that researchers are funded to study this kind of thing!
Maybe I should apply for a grant...Splitting the Beer Atom!

Bacteria and yeasts may choose to chew on the necessary proteins
for food, or building materials and deplete the beer.  
Some of these same protein eaters may also produce products
which result in what we consider "off flavors" or aromas.
But to them...it's just what they do.  Don't blame them-
JUST ELIMINATE THEM!  Call the TERMINATOR!

******************************

Chris Cook praises boiling essence for SPRUCE BEER
>John mentioned using 6 oz of essence.  I don't know the brand, 
but that sounds like a whole lot of essence.

*I was thinking about that one.  I think it was a 2 oz bottle.
Good for up to 6 gallons???  Maybe I should have boiled it,
and made a darker beer.  Hmmm.  Still don't think i want to try it
again.  Maybe I'll experiment with smoke instead! (RauchBier!)

BTW:  Not to slam a style..Not me!  Give it a try if it tickles
your pickle.  I'm DEFINITELY not Rheinheitsgebot myself!
Anyone else ever tried Cajun Spice in a brew?  Interesting.

*****************************
Jeremy Bergsman says:
>(can you say salivary amylase?), the fungal one is probably the 
cheapest.  

*   You're not gonna start telling us to chew our grains in our
mouths and then spit into our boiling kettles are you!
Starts sounding like some wierd indian corn concoction! Hmmmmmm.
So what if we add some fungus to our mashes- MushroomBrew?

*****************************
Oh Nuts...Yeah.  Oil.  Kills head.  Maybe you should spit in it.
            That's coooool.  Huh huh, heh, heh. 
*****************************
Oh...and BTW  
    Norm mentioned his Barley wine was down to an OG of... 
Wait a minute here.   OG= Original Gravity.  How can it be down to...
FG= Final Gravity,    SG= Specific Gravity.  Let's be nittypicky! :)
********************************************************************
~~~~~~~~~~~~  John (The Coyote) Wyllie SLK6P at cc.usu.edu ~~~~~~~~~~~~
**********************   Aaaaaaaack.  BtC  *************************

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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 15:04:00 CST
From: Montgomery_John at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil
Subject: IPA request


I posted this question before, but got no response, so I thought I'd 
give it one more try before abandoning the idea altogether. I'm am 
currently on a quest for the Holy Grail of India Pale Ales and am trying 
to replicate Hale's IPA. If anyone has any recipe suggestions for 
recreating this brew, could you please pass them along? Any suggestions 
would be greatly appreciated.

john m.

montgomery_john at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil



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Date: 25 Oct 1993 14:04:08 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer#d#john at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Fermenting Process question

Hello Group,
I have made a spiced Christmas Ale (de la Phleming), and I used Wyeast 
European Ale. I wanted a malty roundness to support the spices.

I would like your perceptions as to the quality of my fermentation.

I may have rushed things a bit. I squoze the packet early Saturday, by evening
it was plump and I added it to a high gravity starter (I haven't measured it,
but from the remainder's color, I'd guess 1.06) Next morning It was foaming 
with a half inch of foam in the pint jar. I made my beer and pitched that
afternoon. I had good activity afterwork the following day (monday). It had a
sluggish fermentation overall judging from the meager three quarters inch
krausen. Most visible churning had ceased by Thursday and the krausen is now
settling back in. 

Other particulars:
aeration: Liberal splashing of the bathtub cooled wort into the 7gal carboy. 
          And some shaking. a little.
OG: about 1.06 (measured warm and adjusted)
FG: as of sunday 1.03
Temp: Air Stat'd at 69F
Time Elapsed: 7 days as of 5pm Monday Oct.25
I am using the Brewcap system but am having a difficult time getting my 
sediment out of that teeny 1/4 inch hose. (hop pellet fine particles) 
I need to do that tonight.  I am thinking of going ahead and racking it... 
I can wait a while though, probably.

Does my fermentation seem too feeble to you?  This is my first use of Liquid
Yeast, the dry Red Star always had a furious krausen... The three point drop in
gravity looks good, but is that the whole story? I appreciate any and all 
comments.
 -John Palmer
** I think sex is more fun than basketball, too.**
** Fishing can be a tossup, though. **
***(Depends on which is biting better)***

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Date:         Mon, 25 Oct 93 17:07:15 EDT
From: Todd Anderson <TAND1698 at URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject:      New England Brew Pubs

Long time reader, first time writer.  I would greatly appreciate any info.
on brewpubs in the Southern New England area.  I've been to a couple in Boston,
so I'm more interested in Rhode Island, Connecticut and Cape Cod areas.
My E-Mail address is TAND1698 at URIACC.URI.EDU.

                                Thanks a Bunch!

                                Todd Anderson
                                University of Rhode Island

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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 16:23:36 -0500
From: bliss at pixel.convex.com (Brian Bliss)
Subject: Re: layered beer


Fritz Keinert <keinert at iastate.edu> writes:
>While we are on the subject of beer drinks: does anybody know how to
>get two differently colored beers (like Guinness and Bass Ale) in two
>layers in the same glass? We tried it once during a party, with no
>success.

You must use draft guinness, either from a tap or from the can.
Pour a layer of anything else on bottom, then pour the guinness
slowly & carefully over a spoon held against the wall of the glass.

Does it work if you try to put guinness on the bottom?
I'd go out and buy some, but they don't sell the cans in TX.

bb


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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 17:52:16 EDT
From: mwithers at hannibal.ATL.GE.COM (W. Mark Witherspoon)
Subject: Update on "RCA"

Ok, folks my Rusty Cream Ale came out.  The verdict...

	It ain't cream ale.  It looks and tastes like
	a Killians Red clone.  

To refresh everyone's memory here is the recipe..
	2 lbs of pale malt
	1 lbs of flaked corn
	1 lbs of crystal malt (about 50 l)
	4 lbs of Alexanders Pale Malt

	1 oz of Tettanger Hops (3.8%) (boil  at  45 min)
	1 oz of Liberty Hops (3.2%) (half and half boil/finish)
	
	Whitbread ale yeast

	OG = 1.052

        FG = 1.012

It appears that the Whitbread yeast that I used was
really atteuntuave.  The % alcohol/vol is around 6.5.
The preliminary tastes puts it nice, smooth, a bit thin
(its' been ageing about 2 weeks).  It should have some
character in about 1-2 months.

Thanks for the reply's about it.

Mark Witherspoon
************************************************************************
|\ /|          W. Mark Witherspoon          | The opions expressed are of my 
|   |\ /|      mwithers at hannibal.ATL.GE.COM | own not of my employer... 
    |   | ATL  (609)866-6672                |  This sig will self destruct...* 

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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 19:22:51 EDT
From: sean v. taylor <sean at chemres.tn.cornell.edu>
Subject: Chapel Hill and Richmond Pubs/Brewpubs


Greetings:

	I am going to be in the Chapel Hill, NC area for a few
days in November and I was wondering if anyone out there in the
HBD zone had any advice on good pubs/brewpubs anywhere in the 
area.
	On my way down, I am stopping in Richmond for an evening
and I was wondering the same thing (pubs/brewpubs?)

	Any responses would be greatly appreciated.  

				Thanks,
					Sean Taylor


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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 11:57 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Sheaf & Vine Brewing Supply

Please excuse the use of bandwidth, but due to the proliferation of
my catalog via electronic means, I have no way of knowing who of you
out there were planning to place a Sheaf & Vine order by mail.


It is with deep regret that I must report Sheaf & Vine Brewing Supply
will be suspending mailorder operations until further notice.

As many of you know, I have been running Sheaf & Vine Brewing Supply
(retail store AND mailorder) singlehandedly, evenings and weekends after
putting in 40+ hours per week at AT&T Bell Laboratories.  The reasons
for suspending the mailorder side are:

1. health -- often I would be up till 3am packaging hops & grains and
		this has really taken a toll on me,

2. no time to spend with my wife -- we just celebrated our 1 year anniversary
		(even on our anniversary day, I met with a potential customer)
		and, most importantly,

3. decrease in quality -- the heavy load of mailorder requests has increased
		turnaround time to unacceptable levels... if I cannot provide
		the best possible service to my customers, I would rather
		suspend operations rather than compromise quality.

If and when I make Sheaf & Vine a full-time business or if retail operations
require the hiring of an employee, I will resume mailorder operations.  Please
accept my appologies.

Al.

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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 13:41 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Filtering/PitchTiming/GrainStorage/Critters/WyeastMunich/ChimayYeast/HeadKillingInfection

Jim writes:
 Okay - I give up. How *do* I filter out those bits of gunk, fruit,
 etc from the primary (or secondary) fermenter when ready to bottle,
 without oxidizing? To say nothing of trying to filter out the hops,
 etc *before* going _into_ the primary....

Once the wort is cool you can splash all you want -- this is the time
to filter out bits of hops and stuff you added during the boil.  I use
hop bags and thus get very little stuff to filter out.  After primary
fermentation, one way to filter the beer is to put a mesh over the end
of the siphon hose.  You can increase your filter surface area by first
putting a sanitized copper scrubbie (like a Choreboy) over the end of
the siphon tube and then covering that with something like a hop bag
(thanks to Al Andrews and/or Kinney Baughman for this tip).

**********************
Domenick writes:
>It has been my experience that Wyeast is ready to pitch after about 24
>hrs, sometimes less.  By the time the package is really puffed the 
>yeast has gone way past high kraesen (sic?), and flocculated.  It's had a 
>good meal and dozed off.  Pitching this means not only are you under 
>pitching, but you are under pitching sleeping yeast that will need some 
>time to wake up.  By using a starter you can pitch more cells and perhaps 
>better time your pitch to occur just before high kraesen.  So I think that
>a 48 hr lag time (Sat-Mon) is not unexpected.

Actually, the ideal time to pitch is shortly AFTER high kraeusen.  This
is important enough to repost (something from Mike Sharp):

>What I refered to here as the 'stationary phase' is really
>the very beginning of the dormant phase.  In other words,
>let you starter ferment out _then_ pitch it.  Don't let
>it sit too long or you'll have other problems.
> 
>As far as the argument that vigorously multiplying yeast will
>start your wort faster, the yeast have a limited supply of glycogen
>and it gets depleated through culture growth (multiplication).
>If you then pitch this starter with an already depleated glycogen
>level into your wort then you'll have more of a lag since the
>cells won't be able to multiply as quickly (due to the low glycogen levels)
>[think of glycogen as the fuel that drives the cell]  By letting
>the cells reach stationary phase they have stopped multiplying,
>begun storing up glycogen again, and just generally getting ready
>to go dormant.
> 
>At least thats the Reader's Digest version of what I go out of:
>> Impact of Yeast Handling Procedures on Beer Flavor During Fermentation
>> Pickerell et. all.
>> American Society of Brewing Chemists (ASBC) Journal, Vol 49:2, 1991, pp.87-92

****************************
Mark writes:
>what are people using to store their grain in?

I store it in white, 5-gallon, HDPE pails with gasketted lids (they are a bear
to remove, even with the lid-lifter tool!) at about 60-65 degrees.  You
can get between 25 and 30 pounds of grain in a 5-gallon bucket.  What else
is nice, is that the pails stack much better than 110lb sacks!

***************************
Doug writes:
>First, what kind of critters can invade a bad batch?

Lots, but none that are dangerous.  lactobacillus and pediococcus are the
most common, but you can also have acetobacter, molds and sherry flor.

>What is the worst illness that you have heard of from drinking 'bad beer'?
The worst thing that can happen is you'll like it and develop 'bad taste.'
But seriously, a hangover is about the worst thing you can get.
 
>Second, what is a good McEwan's taste alike? I have had this beer and like it's
>style.

I assume you mean McEwan's Scotch Ale.  There are very few beers that I know
of that are similar to McEwan's Scotch Ale and are imported into the US.  Note
that if you like MSA, you may also like a beer which is perhaps the lager
counterpart to MSA, namely Doppelbock.  Salvator Doppelbock is a bit less sweet
but in a similar vein.  Celebrator by Ayinger is another good one you might
try.

***************************
Phil writes:
>Has anybody had experience with this yeast (Wyeast Munich Lager #2308)?

I don't know what they mean about the instability, but I can report a
very intense "home perm solution" nose for the first 4 months of lagering.
I fermented at 50F and then later at 45F.  After 4 months, the off aroma
disappeared and the beer did well in a few competitions.

****************************
Jamie writes:
    How does the Wyeast Belgian compare to cultured Chimay yeast?  Which am
    I better off using?

Judging from the flavor of two beers that I recently tasted, one brewed with
Wyeast Belgian and the other brewed with cultured Chimay dregs, I would say
that the yeasts are identical.  There are trade-offs with each: going the
Wyeast route is more expensive but the Chimay dreg route is a bit riskier,
since you don't know how much the bottle was abused on its way to you from
Belgium.

*****************************
Tom writes:
>But why does an infection kill head?

Because part of what gives good head retention are dextrins and other
more-complex carbohydrates which yeast can't eat, but some bacteria can.
The bacteria cut up the large carbohydrates (and perhaps even proteins
- -- but this is just a guess, although small proteins are very important to
head retention) into pieces that are edible by yeast (which is why infected
beers often turn into gushers -- overcarbonation from the yeast eating
stuff you wanted unfermented).

Al.


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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 22:03:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: FILTER at xavier.xu.edu
Subject: Hemlock Beer

There seems to be some confusion among some people as to the difference
between Eastern Hemlock (an evergreen found in the far north down to Tennessee
along the mountains,) and the Hemlock(& water Hemlock) 'weedy-type' plant.
The two are not at all related, and I'm not at all sure how they gained the 
same name.  

The evergreen tree is one of our most beautiful coniferous trees. It has small 
perfectly shaped cones.  According to 'Euell Gibbon's Wild Foods Guide,' you
may take a handful of the needles brew a delicious tea. It's good, I've tried 
it over the camp fire.  'Peterson's Wild Food Guide' agrees and goes on to
state that a highly nutritious flour can be made from the inner bark. 
'Peterson's North American Tree & Shrub Guide' states that both Native 
Americans & early frontiersmen brewed tea from the Eastern Hemlock. 
Unfortunately, the future of this tree is uncertain because of some ugly,
little insects we've imported into this continent.

The weedy-type plants, Hemlock & Water Hemlock, are easily distinguished from
the evergreen.  They've got leaves, as opposed to needles.  They may only grow
a yard or two tall.  And most of all, they look like Wild Carrot & Queen Anne's
Lace.  In fact, I think they're related to the latter. Both Hemlock & Water 
Hemlock are highly poisenous, requiring only a handful of the leaves to do
in the average person.

Rest assured, if you can tell the difference between an evergreen and a 
weed, you can use the Hemlock in your brewing(like the spruce.) I've never
made beer from either.            Good Luck, Jeep  (Filter at XU.XAVIER.EDU)  

 

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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 93 00:32:00 BST
From: r.mcglew3 at genie.geis.com
Subject: Nut Beer

I judged specialty beers last year at the HOPS-BOPS HB contest held at
 the Sam Adams Brewpub.  We gave a nut beer 1st place, it really was a good
 beer.  When we first tasted it we were not all that impressed, but after
 some re-calibration of our palates, we gave it a second try and voila.
 I can't remember the recipe, I believe it was either walnut or pecan, and
 I seem to remember that is was a brown ale.  If anyone is connected with
 HOPS, maybe you can look back in your records.
 For anyone that enters a specialty beer in a contest, be aware that the
 judges in that category are subjected to a lot of widely varying beers and
 have a hard time picking the right one, the judges' taste preferences
 really are the major factor.  So, if it doesn't do well, let your own
 taste buds determine if you should do it again.

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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 23:45:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: /R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/ at mr.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: homebrew club gone stale! oxidation?

As a member, former vice president and president, and treasurer of 
our local homebrew club over the past half dozen years or so, I have
been disappointed in the direction the club has gone presently.  It
has turned into more of a socializing and drinking club.  Not to be
too negative, I would like to address this problem in our club newsletter.
I'm thus asking for input from people on the HBD to share with me if they have
had similar experiences in their clubs, and possible ways to remedy this
situation.  In particular, I would hope some could share with me some
of the activities that they partake of at their club meetings besides
drinking homebrew.  Specifically, where are meeting held, do they
rotate from house to house or restaurant to restaurant?  Are experiments
done on a club basis?  Etc.  Since this may be of general interest to other
clubs, a reply by digest would seem appropriate.  However, responses can
be e-mailed to : kligerman%am%herlvx at mr.rtpnc.epa.gov

Thanks,
Andy Kligerman



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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1993 23:54:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: WEIX at swmed.edu
Subject: Info on Yeast Labs Liq. Wanted

Hi,
I've been lurking (and drinking and brewing and then lurking some more) 
since composing the Yeast FAQ. I could find no data on the attenuation of 
many of the strains listed in the FAQ. If any one has data/impressions, I 
would be glad to amend the FAQ. 
  On a totally unrelated note: What are peoples impressions of the EKU 
Hefe-Weissen (Weizen, Weixen?). I thought it was great, just my conception 
of what a Bavarian Wei*en should taste like, but then it was my first 
chance to try the style. (Goes great with pork roast, red cabbage, and hot 
German potato salad--just like Grossmutti used to make!).
  I think my confusion over the spelling would be resolved if I knew what 
Wei*en stood for. Weiss == white or Weiz == wheat. Anyone? Anyone?

Thanks,
Patrick
<weix at swmed.edu>
Hopfz und Maltz, Gott erhalts!


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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 00:55:50 -0600 (CST)
From: SWEENERB at msuvx2.memst.edu
Subject: clarifying in a keg

I am considering skipping the use of a secondary and siphoning straight into
a Cornelius keg as an experiment.  In the past I have used both Polychar and
gelatin as clarifiers, but recently gelatin has been the method of choice.
I like gelatin because it seems to drop out of solution in only a couple of 
days and I don't like to wait for beer too long. My current batch is 
a wheat beer which has been in the primary for about a week with no activity
for the last day or so.

Have any of you kegger types tried to add clarifiers directly into the
keg and what kind of results/problems can I expect, particularly with respect
to the use of gelatin? Thanks in advance folks.

As always,

Bob Sweeney

Memphis State University
sweenerb at memst.msuvx1.edu
  


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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 13:43:27 PDT
From: "Victor Grigorieff" <VGRIGORI at us.oracle.com>
Subject: Thoughts on a recipe for standard American beers...


 
Howdy, 
 
I was wondering what kind of a recipe one should use to make a beer like 
Bud or Henry's Reserve Ale.  I am guessing that the standard American 
mass-produced beer is using a bunch of corn sugar instead of malt.   
 
I usually make beers with 7-10 pounds of malt (per 5-gallon batch), sometimes 
substituting honey.  Does anyone have ideas on substituting corn sugar? 
 
Am I on the right track, or are these beers made with extremely light malt 
instead.  Any thoughts? 
 
Thanks, 
 
 - Vic 
________________________________________________________________________ 
Victor Grigorieff                                    vgrigori at oracle.com       



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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1993 07:50:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: dspalme at mke.ab.com (Diane Palme x2617)
Subject: Faking orgasms and white knights

Hello all.

	I would just like to say "thank you" for those of you out there in
HBD-land who have a sense of humor and enjoy a bit of levity in your morning
e-mail.  It is refreshing to know that a woman is allowed to have a sense
of humor, and even more so, <gasp!> to express it.  For all of you who sent
me personal mail, as well as those of you who posted, thanks.  I'll try to
come up with an even better .sig.  For the person who was offended, well,
um,  pffffftt!  ;-P  :)  :-I  :-D

Returning you to your regularly-scheduled HBD ...

D.

- -- 
Diane Palme, EIT
Department Engineer, Central Inspection
Allen-Bradley Company
(414)  382-2617

dspalme at mke.ab.com

		"In the beginning, it was the Plan."

You think A-B would be smart enough to accept my opinions as their own? 
I mean really!  <sheesh>

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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 93 08:36:30 -0400
From: "Phillip Seitz" <p00644 at psilink.com>
Subject: Beer hunting in Belgium: Part 6 (Aged beer tasting)

Beer Hunting in Belgium: Part 6 of 7

Aged beer tasting
      (by Phil Seitz)

On the last day of our trip we were able to arrange a tasting of
aged beers.  While we did request certain types of beer to
sample, the final selection was made by our host.  We cannot
vouch for the actual age of the beers (the bottles were not
labeled with dates), but can certify that they were certainly
old, and looked it--covered with dust, well sedimented, corks all
moldy, etc.  As it turned out, the effects of ageing were a bit
unpredictable anyway, so what follows here should probably be
taken as a range of possibilities rather than a strict prediction
of the effects of time on unusual beers.

Beer #1: 15 year-old gueuze from the Wets brewery (St. Genesius-
      Rhode); 75 cl corked bottle
      This beer was completely flat, a medium caramel brown in
color with a tart, rich, cherry-like aroma.  It was surprisingly
sweet, and at first taste we were convinced we'd been given a
kriek.  Our host explained to us that in some cases gueuze can
get sweeter with age (!), and that, no, there were no cherries in
this beer.  
      The initial flavor was quite full, tart, slightly caramel-
and cherry-like, a bit like Rodenbach Grand Cru or Alexander but
with more of the lambic funkiness, less acidity, and no oakiness.
      The consensus at the table was that the beer had reached a
state of maturity, or peak flavor and character.
      As with older wines, exposure to oxygen produced some
interesting effects.  We drank our glasses over a 20-30 minute
period, and different tastes and flavors would come forward and
then retreat again.  Most notable was a banana-like flavor that
only lasted a few minutes.
      The Wets brewery no longer exists.  A line of gueuze
products is still available under that name, but our host said
these are made by the Brasserie Girardin.  Later comparison
showed that modern Wets and Girardin bottles are identical.

Beer #2: 10-year-old Liefman's Goudenband; 37.5 cl corked bottle
      Here the effects of exposure to oxygen were very dramatic. 
Following the initial pour the beer was well carbonated, quite
similar to the current Goudenband in body, but slightly darker
and with brown tints in the head.  Then there was the flavor and
aroma.  As beer snobs we had a hard time coming to agreement--did
it taste more like a washcloth that's been laying around wet for
three days, or just a really bad pair of smelly socks?  
      However, within ten minutes all the washcloth smell and
flavor had vented off, leaving the beer with a rather convincing
flavor of cabernet sauvignon.  Slightly fruity, slightly tannic,
very wine-like.  Fortunately it stayed that way, at least until
we were finished with our glasses.  A remarkable performance.

Beer #3: 20-year-old gueuze from the Wets brewery; 75 cl corked
      bottle
      Our host introduced this beer by saying it was the same
style and type as the one we'd previously had, though obviously
the year of production (and therefore some of the microflora used
in the brewing) were different.  In fact, the two beers could
hardly have been more different.
      This beer was also flat, with the color of dark milk
chocolate.  The aroma and flavor were very pronounced, and
featured bitter chocolate, coffee, and strong caramel.  A lot
like drinking strong coffee flavored with cocoa powder and
butterscotch, rather bitter but not overpoweringly so.  In fact,
a lot like Mexican mole sauce.
      Our surprise was evident, and we asked how two ostensibly
similar beers could turn out so differently.  The reply was that,
well, after ten years the development gets unpredictable.  I
can't say I'd drink a beer like this very often, but it was not
objectionable and certainly an interesting experience.

Beer #4: 25-year-old Orval; 33 cl capped bottle
      Unfortunately no aged Trappist beers like Westvleteren Abt
or Chimay Bleu were available, but a stock of Orval had been
retained.  At the time this bottle was produced Orval as 5.6%
ABV; now it's 5.2%.
      Despite the crown cap it had retained plenty of
carbonation.  In fact, it tasted a lot like Orval, particularly
with regard to the "hair tonic" yeast flavors.  If anything, it
had just softened a little, possibly due to the decline in hop
flavors.  Any reasonably experienced beer drinker could have
pegged this as Orval blindfolded.  Was it really bottled in 1968? 
I had to wonder.


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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 93 09:56:12 EDT
From: mferts at taec.com (Mike Fertsch)
Subject: RE: Steam injection

Ed Westemeier proposed a method of Steam injection:

>I recently watched a fellow homebrewer use what I consider an extremely
>clever gadget.  He had an ordinary household pressure cooker that he
>modified to run a steam line out through a ball valve. 

Be VERY careful modifying pressure cookers.  High pressure steam can be
dangerous!  The last thing you need is a hose rupturing, burning
yourself.

>By simply injecting live, low pressure steam into the bottom of his
>picnic cooler mash tun while stirring the mash, he was able to raise
>the temperature to the desired point very quickly. 

>Has anyone experimented with this type of setup?

I once had the privledge of brewing a batch of beer at the Vermont Pub
and Brewery.  The recipe called for a step mash.  The VP&B mashtun is
equipped with hot water valves feeding the top, and steam valves
feeding the bottom.  A combination of hot water and steam heated the
grain for the high temperature step.  They force steam into the bottom
of the kettle - this helps heat the grain to the desired temperature.
One problem was mixing the grain.  As would be expected, the bottom of
the grain bed gets very hot, and needs to be stirred up.  We stirred
like mad (not easy with 1000 pounds of grain!), and also injected CO2
into the kettle from the bottom.  The CO2 gave the grain a little more
mechanical motion and assisted mixing the mash.  (Raising the
temperature was NOT fun - imagine standing on a ladder with a big oar,
stirring the mash.  As the same time, steam and CO2 are comming off the
grain.  If the stirring doesn't fatigue you, the steam doesn't burn
you, or the CO2 asphixiate you, you are destined to fall off the ladder
and break a leg!).  Everything worked out well - the beer was
fantastic!  (no one got hurt, but don't call OSHA!)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mike Fertsch

Work:  617-224-7298  mferts at taec.com       Toshiba, Wakefield MA
Home:  617-932-0567  mikef at hopfen.rsi.com  Home, Woburn MA

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1257, 10/28/93