HOMEBREW Digest #1261 Tue 02 November 1993

Digest #1260 Digest #1262

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Brass in the boil (npyle)
  Re: Thoughts on a recipe for standard American beers... (Jeff Benjamin)
  Carbonation (esonn1)
  Sorbate, .sigs (Geoff Cooper)
  DRE, Wyeast, Etna lables (ELQ1)
  Mash Out (again!) (npyle)
  Kraeusening (Frank Haist)
  Re: Late Kettle Hop Additions (Corby Bacco)
  More Beer. Less Tax. (Chuck Cox)
  Re: scraping hops (mcdcup!tellabs.com!don)
  IPA/Keg Clarity/Sigs/Distill COPS NOT! (COYOTE)
  Dopplebock (Phil Brushaber)
  "Scotch Ale" by Greg Noonan (eurquhar)
  Homebrew Digest (Bruce Feist)
  Beer drink... (J. Michael Diehl)
  Re: hops & counterflow (Jim Grady)
  Re:Beer Shelf Life (John_D._Sullivan.wbst311)
  Hops FAQ, Part 5/5 (npyle)
  Re: Jack & the perfect chiller (Jim Busch)
  Wit Bier recipe (Keith MacNeal  29-Oct-1993 1021)
  Advantages of ascorbic acid? (lincecum)
  CF Chiller Effects on Hop Character (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Re: Chillers  (Drew Lynch)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 9:51:56 MDT From: npyle at n33.stortek.com Subject: Brass in the boil A week ago, Andrew asked about brass in the boil. I have a brass fitting inside of my boiler as well, so I'm also curious to hear the answer. As far as your ball valve attached to the outside, if it gets anywhere near as hot as mine, it will be sanitized. I put a 4" nipple between my pot and valve to get it away from the heat (I also hang a wet rag over the nipple to keep it cooler). I use a CF chiller with this system, though, so mine gets piping hot wort run through it (no sanitation worries). Old Lucifer update: 1.036 after 5.5 weeks. The yeast (started with Wyeast London Ale, pitched Wyeast British Ale later) is apparently giving up, since this beer is starting to get very clear. As much as I hate to do it, I may have to punt (i.e. pitch a frog yeast). And that's SG for the nitpicky coyote!:) Cheers, Norm Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 9:55:40 MDT From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com> Subject: Re: Thoughts on a recipe for standard American beers... > I am guessing that the standard American mass-produced beer is using a > bunch of corn sugar instead of malt.... Am I on the right track, or are > these beers made with extremely light malt instead. You're close. Most American mega-brewers use large percentages of corn or rice, but usually flaked or powdered grains rather than sugar. The corn or rice adjuncts are converted to sugar by the barley enzymes. This is one way of providing more fermentables without adding much color or flavor (or cost; processed sugar is comparatively expensive). Too much sugar can also produce undesirable "cidery" flavors in your beer. Also, the mega-brewers (at least around here, Coors and Anheuser-Busch) often have specially grown varieties of barley that are specially malted. Typically, the malt is not cured, or roasted after drying, resulting in malt that is paler than you can usually find at the homebrew shop. My advice on making a mega-brew clone: use the palest malt you can find, and use a large portion (maybe 25-30%) of flaked corn or rice extract. Most mega-beer also has less alcohol than a typical homebrew, so shoot for a lower gravity beer, maybe 1.035-40 OG. This means a higher ratio of water to grain, which will also lighten it. Your beer may not end up quite as pale as a Bud, but I'd rather have my homebrew a few shades darker in color and a few shades higher in taste! - -- Jeff Benjamin benji at hpfcla.fc.hp.com Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado "Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium." - T.S. Eliot Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 11:57:11 -0400 From: esonn1 at cc.swarthmore.edu Subject: Carbonation What's up? I'm currently brewing a brown ale and would like to ask the HBD brain trust about how much I should fee my yeast before bottling. I have always used 3/4 cup of priming sugar for a 5 gallon batch. I read in the Papazian book that you could use as much as one cup, but that you have to chill the bottles and risk some gushers. Should I read "gushers" as bottle explosions, or does it refer to overcarbonation? (I have never had a bottle explode on my and I would rather keep it that way) I would like this beer to carbonate earlier than my other batches, if possible. Once ready, the beer will not stay around long because I'm brewing it for a party, so I'm not worried about it sitting too long and building up too much pressure. Would using extract rather than priming sugar make it carbonate faster? Would I be better off just using the usual 3/4 cup of sugar and making sure the bottles are at the higher end of the suggested temperature range? Should I just stick with my old tried and true method and push off the party an extra week? Responses through the digest or directly to me would both be fine. Thanks in advance. Eugene esonn1 at cc.swarthmore.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 16:16:29 +0000 From: G.A.Cooper at qmw.ac.uk (Geoff Cooper) Subject: Sorbate, .sigs COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu> writes: >meade at readmore.com asked about: >Sorbate/Sulphate > >* Potassium Sorbate is a "stabilizer" It will not STOP an >active ferment but will inhibit initiation of growth. Both >yeast and bacteria. Not quite true. Although sorbate does inhibit yeast (only a small amount is needed to prevent your starter culture from working on your wort/must) it does *not* inhibit bateria. Well, not all bacteria if it does stop some. In particular, some strains of Lactobacilus remain unaffected. In wine/cider making, sorbate should be avoided in the initial ingredients. It can be added at (or near) the end of ferment in order to stabilise a brew containing residual fermentable sugars - you might be wanting a sweet cider. But in wine making, it should *always* be used in conjunction with campden tablets. (That might also be true for cider!). The reason: sorbate can be decomposed, by a bacterium, to create geraniol which gives a very strong smell of geraniums; the campden is needed to knock out the bacteria. >You Don't want cider with sorbate. Find an orchard and get >the fresh pressed- unfiltered stuff. Much worth it! That's very good advice. ******** And dspalme at mke.ab.com (Diane Palme x2617) now signs off with: "In the beginning, it was the Plan." Now that's not funny! Not the slightest hint of the wry little smile twitched the corners of my mouth like it used to when Diane previously wrote. :-( ( snip, snip... <- that's the sound of my removing the bit about humourless moral policemen and PC speakers. It's the wrong forum. Shrug shoulders, carry on ... ) It's not true either Diane. Didn't John the Evangelist start "In the beginning was the wort, and the wort was good ....." Geoff Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 08:51:04 PDT From: ELQ1%Maint%HBPP at cts27.comp.pge.com Subject: DRE, Wyeast, Etna lables Hello All, In HBD #1257 Vic asks about brewing a Bud like beer, and its recipe. I did a batch very similer with fair results, [although more Miller like] and if you notice the ingredients on a Bud it says right there, Rice Extract, I used 3 lbs DRE or Dried Rice Extract, 3 lbs DME Light Aust. and pitched with Wyeast #2308 Munich, useing DRE instead of sugar will improve crispness and will prevent the nasty cider taste of the sugar. I have used both Wyeast #2308 Munich and #2306 Baverian and have had good results, and strange fermentation rates, but still had good brew. One comment on using Ammonia to remove lables, works great one them, except, an Etna Lager lable, they use a rubbery glue, the ammonia helps, butt... let'em soak a day or two. p.s. M. Nelson at HSU? your local, call me 4-8659 Ed Quier, ELQ1 at MAINT at HBPp Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 10:42:39 MDT From: npyle at n33.stortek.com Subject: Mash Out (again!) I had to add some ammo to the recent mash out wars. Note that I do not mash out; I'm looking for reasons to do it. In that vein, I found these sniglets in the Winter 1992 Zymurgy, in an article titled "Beer Stability" by Micah Millspaw (formerly of HBD-fame) and Bob Jones (currently of HBD-fame). Reproduced without permission (typos are mine): "What is an unstable beer and why should we be concerned about not brewing one? Unstable beers are ones that tend to throw a haze and later have flavor staling and oxidation problems. Oxidation plays an important role in the formation of protein haze and melanoidins function as antioxidants to prevent the oxidation of protein. Melanoidins are compounds formed by amino acid - carbohydrate reactions induced by heat. Oxidation also plays an important part in the production of colloidal haze, hence the name "oxidation haze", first coined by Helm, a German brewing scientist, in the early part of this century. Colloids are particulate matter in a solution. Moreover, the formation of chill haze is considerably increased by oxidation." "Unstable colloids promote chill haze and permanent haze in beer." "Melanoidins are stable complexes formed at high (mash-out) temperatures, they are colloidal in nature and are powerful reducing agents giving an acid reaction in aqueous solutions." "Their colloidal nature enables them to 'protect' unstable colloids present in beer and to prevent haze formation. At the same time, melanoidins are powerful reducing agents and this too can prevent beer from throwing a haze. In addition, the acid character of melanoidins helps to improve the quality of beer. Melanoidins formed at 170 degrees F (76.5 degrees C) are more stable than those formed at the lower temperatures of conventional mashing. Adding specialty malts only in the mash-out can make the mash more efficient by maximizing the formation of melandoidins, optimizing saccharifications and eliminating steeping vessels and/or grain bags." "In 1922, Visez, a brewing scientist at Louvain, in Belgium, showed that dextrins also act as protective colloids to diminish colloidal haze. This means that beer with higher dextrin levels are much less subject to colloidal haze than beers with low dextrin levels." "This method of using dark and cystal malts (adding them at mash-out) will increase the quantity of melanoidins in your finished beer, thereby leading to smoother and rounder flavors from the specialty grains as well as more stable and clearer beers. The use of this mash-out technique also can reduce metallic flavors that often occur in dark beers but are not actually caused by metal ions in the brewing process." So, according to this article (color commentary in parentheses): 1) Oxidation plays an important role in haze and other stability problems (no surprise here), 2) Unstable colloids promote haze, 3) Melanoidins are colloidal in nature, and when stable, can protect against haze and other stability problems, (melanoidins are our friends) 4) Melanoidins formed at mash-out temperatures are more stable than those formed at normal mash temperatures, (mash-out helps our friends?) 5) Specialty grains added at mash-out help with this stable melanoidin formation, and contribute to smoother, more stable beer (I knew about the smoothness part, didn't know it would help with stability) 6) The higher the dextrin level, the less colloidal haze (mash-out stops dextrins from breaking down) Interesting stuff, eh? Maybe mash-out helps? One could argue that if proper procedures are followed with respect to HSA avoidance, the mash-out may not be as critical. On the flip side, I've had haze problems in the past with very careful attention to HSA (of course, there are other factors involved in hazes). If I continue to have haze problems, I may find a way to do a proper mash-out as an experiment. I highly recommend this article as well as George Fix's HSA article in the same issue. They go into much more than what I've shown (I just wanted to provide some info on the current discussion). Norm Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 10:08:41 -0700 From: haist at cogsci.UCSD.EDU (Frank Haist) Subject: Kraeusening Next weekend I'm going to make my initial foray into all-grain brewing, but first I'd like to tap some of sage advice from this group. My current set-up for fermenting includes two 5-gallon carboys. After spending the money for most of the all-grain equipment, I decided to wait on a 7-gallon cb. Based on most recipes it looks like I can expect about 5.5 gallons of wort after the boil. that will yield about 5 gal after fermenting blowoff. I'm planning to take the initial 1/2 gallon excess, store it (via standard canning procedures for sanitation), and then use it to kraeusen the beer prior to bottling. This seems to have three immediate advantages: 1) I can continue my preferred method of primary and secondary fermentation in glass carboys, 2) I will end up with a true "all-malt" ale, and 3) the final volume will still be about 5 gallons. I have two main questions. What are people's experiences, good and bad, with kraeusening? Second, how accurate is the equation given by Papazian for determining the amount of wort (I guess now called gyle) in getting similar carbonation to 3/4 c corn sugar (Appendix 3, pp. 331-332)? Thanks in advance. - ---Frank haist at cogsci.ucsd.edu Return to table of contents
Date: 28 Oct 1993 14:56:24 -0500 (EST) From: "SHAMAN at WHARTON" <SHAMAN at wharton.upenn.edu> Subject: HELP I'm a new brewer working on my second batch. I started this one 7 days ago and so far there has been no fermentation that I can detect-- the airlock hasn't bubbled once. A few days ago someone suggested adding more yeast but only after starting some of it in warm water. The yeast bubbled in the water and I poured it into the wort, but still nothing. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks. Patrick Kelly shaman at wharton.upenn.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 13:04:21 MDT From: bacco at md.fsl.noaa.gov (Corby Bacco) Subject: Re: Late Kettle Hop Additions O.K. I'm a little behind on my HBD (lot of traffic on Lambic digest lately). In Tuesday`s HBD Norm asked about extracting more bittering compounds due to the bulk of the wort sitting at a higher temp longer with a counter-flow setup. During a recent beer tasting held here in Boulder I got to talk with a brewer from one of the newer micros in the area (Lonetree, I believe) who is a homebrewer turned pro. I asked him about the transition and one of the things he mentioned was having to adjust his hop schedule because hops added late at the micro actually ended up being in contact with hot wort for quite some time while it passed through the heat exchanger etc. and therefore bittering compounds were extracted and the final beer was more bitter than he had wanted. I believe his solution was to cut back on late additions of hops. Hope this helps, Corby Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 14:17:53 EDT From: chuck at synchro.com (Chuck Cox) Subject: More Beer. Less Tax. The Libertarian Party of Massachusetts has some cool T-shirts left over that they made for their booth at the New England Brewers Fall Festival. $13 ($10 donation + $3 S&H) gets you an extra large (only) black on white Hanes Heavyweight 50/50 T-shirt. It shows the statue of liberty holding a beer mug with the legend "More Beer. Less Tax." across the top in large letters, and "Libertarian Party of Massachusetts" across the bottom in tiny letters. Send your check made out to "Libertarian Party of Mass" to: Lee Nason, LP Mass, 515 Revere Beach Blvd. #808, Revere, MA 02151 - -- Chuck Cox <chuck at synchro.com> SynchroSystems / Riverside Garage & Brewery - Cambridge, Mass. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 11:57:52 CDT From: hplabs!mcdcup!tellabs.com!don Subject: Re: scraping hops > Scraping hops from the sides of the kettle... I always scrape them back in. Even if you use bags like I do, some always seem come through the bags. If you don't shove them back in you can't expect the boil to extract their bitterness. don Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 13:59:33 -0600 (MDT) From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu> Subject: IPA/Keg Clarity/Sigs/Distill COPS NOT! ********************** montgomery_john had an IPA Request. * no one answered?! Jeeez, if this ain't one of the most common types in the Cats Meow don't know what is! Pale Ales... A general recipe I've repeated (but never exactly) several times 5 gallon mash 8 # 2 row pale malt (preferably English malt) 1.5 # light crystal (20-40L) BOIL: 1 oz chinook hops (~10 alpha) 1.5 oz Cascade (or centennial) 4-6 alpha Finish 1 oz Cascade A good pale ale yeast. English brewery maybe. The key- keep it simple, light, and HOP THE HELL OUT OF IT! I really like the grassy/flowery bouquet of cascade. Several variations in hops can be used, but make it bitter, and add lots of finishing hops. If you want extract, Williams english pale is probably a good one. ************************ -John Palmer's new sig.line: >** I think sex is more fun than basketball, too.** ** Fishing can be a tossup, though. ** ***(Depends on which is biting better)*** OUCH!! " Pain Captain! " *Makes me think of that look on Picard's face when that Cardacian (sp?) interogator kept pressing the red button on the remote! Sorry wrong group! ************************* Subject: clarifying in a keg >Have any of you kegger types tried to add clarifiers directly into the keg and what kind of results/problems can I expect,... * I haven't practiced this. I live in a cloud. BUT I would reccommend adding the clarifier to the carboy- let it sediment, then rack OFF of the sediment. Excess goop in the bottom of a keg can keep your beer cloudy- or worse, clog the exit valve. Bad news! I would think part of the idea here is to keep sediment OUT of the keg. ************************* Diane says: >It is refreshing to know that a woman is allowed to have a sense of humor, and even more so, <gasp!> to express it. ...snip...I'll try to come up with an even better .sig. For the person who was offended, well, um, pffffftt! ;-P :) :-I :-D * Well said! Right-o! I too think a woman should have the right to express humor, and experience orgasms as they see fit! Isn't it in the constitution somewhere? ...pursuit of happiness and whatnot! Looking forward to the new sig. Bound to be a winner! NOTE: THIS coming from the guy who "agrees" with that COPS show. NOT!!! ************** Mike Fertsch cautions: >Be VERY careful modifying pressure cookers. High pressure steam can be dangerous! The last thing you need is a hose rupturing, burning yourself. * Oh come-on Mikey. What worry? We brewers are immunized from all harm by the magical virtues imbibed with the beverages we brewed! Far would it be from me to express or agree with cautions and safeguards! BUT REALLY: Good point. Propane burns can be bad too. Always wear shoes when transferring boiling water around. Ask my left foot! PUBLIC NOTICE: I have been accused of agreeing with the show COPS. Now hold on just a minute there buddy. Don't put words or anything but homebrew in my mouth! I stated (w/o proper proof) that there "could" be "potential" dangers involved in distilling. Steam can KILL! for one. And I've seen some agreement that depending on what's mashed or added after the fact, harmful items can be included in moonshine. I'm SURE the government is greedy, and want taxes. OF course! BUT... sometimes there are reasons for laws and regulations. Just ask the guy who lit the Altadena fire and DAMNED NEAR burned my parents house down (neighbors on either side are GONE!) yesterday! I might never have been able to inherit all those pewter beer steins they have and quaff my way to severe brain damage! I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE SHOW COPS. I DISAGREE WITH THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF THE SHOW. Protraying violent/graphic scenes of husbands bashing wifes with baseball bats and what not (oh that's americas most wanted...) and invading peoples homes- many of whom turn out to be innocent.... I don't think the show should be on the air. I don't think they have been fair to the art of homebrewing. I even think people should have the right to grow plants if they want to. I personally wouldn't reccommend trying distilling at home w/o proper knowledge and equipment. I do encourage homebrewing, even of wines! I wouldn't tell someone how to change a light bulb w/o first cautioning them to turn OFF the switch FIRST! Common sense. Take it as you will. Now-- off my soapbox...Sorry for any indication of public flaming. I've seen more than enough flames in the last day to last a lifetime! Tanx CNN FYI: My cheap dictionary defines DISTILLATION as the process of separation by vaporizing then condensing a liquid. I DON'T think that Ice beer, or any concentration of that type is considered Distilling, according to the definition. That is not to say that it is legal. I think it is less "potentially hazardous", unless you stick your tongue to the ice...oooooh that smarts! And if cops invaded your house and confiscated your latest zymurgy I don't think they'd bust you for a bucket of frozen beer they way they'll take you down for your cooling coil! So...that said. I'll shut up and crawl back in my hole now. ////////////////// Run THAT up you flagpole why dontcha! \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ~~~~~~~~~~~~John (The Rambling Coyote) Wyllie SLK6P at cc.usu.edu ~~~~~~~~~~ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\///////////////////////////////////// Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 13:18:00 -0600 From: phil.brushaber at lunatic.metronet.com (Phil Brushaber) Subject: Dopplebock I am currently brewing a Dopplebock and am hoping for a final flavor profile similar to Salvator. I've got a few questions related to this project and thought you could help me out. 1. How do you get that German super-malty flavor? My recipe was based pretty much on Miller's suggestion. My grain bill (for 6.5 gallons) was something like: 4# Alexander's Pale Malt extract 6# American 2-row 3# German Munich 2# American Cara-Pils 2# 70L Crystal Malt My hopping (7HBU in 5 gals) was exclusively German Hallertau, and no finishing hops. Can I expect to get that malty flavor. Or should I have used some other ingredients? 2. Attenuation of yeast I used Wyeast Bavarian as my yeast, and used a one gallon starter. I am told that you can expect about 75% attenuation. Does this refer to how much of the fermentables it will process regardless of alcohol in the environment? 75% attenuation would imply that it would take a 1.040 brew to about 1.010 (I have found this to be true, OK maybe 1.014). Can I expect this yeast to take my 1.080 start down to 1.020 (which is where I would like it.)? 3. Speed of fermentation This dopplebock is fermenting at 50^F. In five days it has gone from 1.080 to 1.040, does this seem right? What's your best guess on how long it will take to get to 1.020? I don't want to get my expectations too high. Thanks! ... (C) Brushaber Brewing Ltd. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11 - ---- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | The Lunatic Fringe BBS * 214-235-5288 * 3 nodes * Richardson, TX * 24 hrs | | UseNet, ILink, RIME, FIDO, Annex, Intelec, LuciferNet, PlanoNet, and more!| - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 93 19:21:16 -0700 From: eurquhar at sfu.ca Subject: "Scotch Ale" by Greg Noonan Looked through the new Classic Beer styles book "Scotch Ales by Greg Noonan". It seemed good but I was wondering what the collective opinion of the HBD readers was. Is it worth buying ? Eric Urquhart (eurquhar at sfu.ca) Centre for Pest Management, Dept. of Biological Sciences Simon Fraser University, Burnaby , B.C. Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1993 17:57:12 -0500 From: Bruce.Feist at f615.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Bruce Feist) Subject: Homebrew Digest Andy Kligerman wrote: h> Subject: homebrew club gone stale! oxidation? AK> As a member, former vice president and president, and AK> treasurer of our local homebrew club over the past half AK> dozen years or so, I have been disappointed in the direction AK> the club has gone presently. It has turned into more of a AK> socializing and drinking club. I'm half the newsletter editor of BURP (Brewers United for Real Potables), a Washington DC metro area homebrew club. We have this problem as well -- if it is indeed a problem; I'm not completely convinced of that (I'll get back to this). Our club is a large one, with around 300 members; we can easily have over 60 people at any given meeting. This introduces problems of its own; it can be difficult trying to do something educational with this many people. We're constantly experimenting with new things to do. We've had educational programs at the meetings (for instance, identification of off flavors via doctored beers, and culturing yeast), and also competitions both at the meetings and offline. The meetings, BTW, are almost all held at members' homes. There are also other events which don't occur at the meetings, and which may not be formally associated with the club. For instance, some of our members occasionally have private beer tastings at their homes. Another example: our Most Esteemed Minister of Education, the illustrious Rick Garvin (are you reading this, Rick?), is currently holding a series of classes in beer judging, which is subsidized by BURP. Above I indicated that I wasn't sure that the bias during meetings towards drinking and socializing was such a bad thing. When viewed in conjunction with the other activities, it works out well. The large groups are best suited for exactly that; for the educational events which are held at meetings, a sub-group splits out for a while. That's good because there aren't all that many topics that would really be appropriate for *everyone*. Meanwhile, the drinking lets us know what everyone is brewing, which is interesting, and the socializing can lead to more offline activities. Best club I ever joined! Bruce Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 01:56:27 -0600 (MDT) From: J. Michael Diehl <mdiehl at triton.unm.edu> Subject: Beer drink... I recall once having a "black and tan." I just whish I could remember what was in it. It was a dark beer and a light beer floating on each other. Wonderfull drink, if I'm remembering it right. Any one know how to make one? Lagers, J. Michael Diehl ;^) |*The 2nd Amendment is there in case the mdiehl at triton.unm.edu | Government forgets about the 1st! <RL> Mike.Diehl at f29.n301.z1 |*God is a good Physicist, and an even .fidonet.org | better Mathematician. <Me> al945 at cwns9.ins.cwru.edu|*I'm just looking for the opportunity to (505) 299-2282 (voice) | be Politically Incorrect! <Me> Can we impeach him yet? |*Protected by 18 USC 2511 and 18 USC 2703. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 7:49:22 EDT From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com> Subject: Re: hops & counterflow Norm Pyle and Jim Busch have both mentioned that a lot of aromatics can be lost from hops if they are added at the end of the boil and you use a counterflow chiller. I just bought the gadgets special issue of zymurgy. Kinney Baughman has an article about building a hop back. This is to allow the brewer to add hop aromatics and then immediately chill the wort with a counterflow chiller. In this case, the beer is not exposed to air when the oils are being added to the volatiles cannot escape. This might be a good alternative if you want to continue using a counterflow chiller and get good hop aroma. I believe Kinney said that this is what Sierra Nevada does to get the hop aroma in thier beers (I've also heard that they dry hop). I'm sorry, I do not have my copy here; Kinney, did I misquote you? WARNING! Once again, I am offering advice from something I read and have not tried yet! - -- Jim Grady |"Root beer burps don't have to be said 'Excuse me'." grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com | Robert Grady, age 4.75 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 05:40:33 PDT From: John_D._Sullivan.wbst311 at xerox.com Subject: Re:Beer Shelf Life >Tom Schwendler asks:Other than filtration or pasturization, are there ways the homebrewer can increase the shelf life of bottled beer? I have noticed quart bottles stay fresh much longer than 12 ozers. I'm not sure if it's due to less headspace/volume or what. Whaddaya think? John Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 7:52:48 MDT From: npyle at n33.stortek.com Subject: Hops FAQ, Part 5/5 - -- Q: What type of hops are available to the homebrewer? Where are they grown? What do they taste/smell like? Who uses them in commercial beers? How much bitterness do they contribute? How do I use them? What are good substitutes? A: The following table lists many common hops available to the homebrewer: ******************************************************************************* The following hops are generally considered aroma hops although in recent years they have started to gain a following in the homebrew community for bittering as well: ******************************************************************************* Name: CASCADE Grown: US Profile: spicy, floral, citrus (esp. grapefruit) aroma Typical use: bittering, finishing, dry hopping for American style ales Example: Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, Anchor Liberty Ale, Old Foghorn AA Range: 4.5 - 7% Substitute: Centennial Name: CRYSTAL (CFJ-HALLERTAU) Grown: US Profile: mild, pleasant, slightly spicy Typical use: aroma/finishing/flavoring Example: ??? AA Range: 2 - 5% Substitute: Imported Hallertau, Mount Hood, Liberty. Name: EAST KENT GOLDINGS Grown: UK Profile: rounded, pungent aroma Typical use: bittering, finishing, dry hopping for British style ales Example: Young's Special London Ale, Samuel Smith's Pale Ale AA Range: ??? Substitute: BC Goldings, English Fuggles Name: FUGGLES Grown: UK, US, and other areas Profile: mild, soft, floral aroma Typical use: finishing / dry hopping for all ales, dark lagers Example: Samuel Smith's Pale Ale, Old Peculiar, Thomas Hardy's Ale AA Range: 4 - 5.5% Substitute: East Kent Goldings, Willamette Name: HALLERTAU HERSBRUCKER Grown: Germany Profile: pleasant, mild aroma Typical use: finishing / dry hopping for German style lagers Example: ??? AA Range: 3 - 5% Substitute: Hallertau Mittelfrueh, Mt. Hood, Liberty, Crystal Name: HALLERTAU MITTELFRUEH Grown: Germany Profile: pleasant, spicy, mild herbal aroma Typical use: finishing / dry hopping for German style lagers Example: ??? AA Range: 3 - 5% Substitute: Hallertau Hersbrucker, Mt. Hood, Liberty, Crystal Name: LIBERTY Grown: US Profile: fine, mild aroma Typical use: finishing / dry hopping for German style lagers Example: Pete's Wicked Lager AA Range: 3 - 5% Substitute: Hallertau Mittelfrueh, Hallertau Hersbrucker, Mt. Hood, Crystal Name: LUBLIN Grown: Poland Profile: reported to be a substitute for noble varieties. Typical use: aroma/finishing Example: ??? AA Range: 2 - 4% Substitute: Saaz, Hallertau, Tettnanger, Mount Hood, Liberty, Crystal. Name: MT. HOOD Grown: US Profile: mild, clean aroma Typical use: finishing / dry hopping for German style lagers Example: ??? AA Range: 3.5 - 5.5% Substitute: Hallertau Mittelfrueh, Hallertau Hersbrucker, Liberty, Tettnanger Name: NORTHERN BREWER Grown: UK, US, Germany (called Hallertau NB), and other areas (growing region affects profile greatly) Profile: fine, fragrant aroma; dry, clean bittering hop Typical use: bittering and finishing for a wide variety of beers Example: Old Peculiar(UK), Anchor Liberty(US), Anchor Steam(US) AA Range: 7 - 10% Substitute: ??? Name: SAAZ Grown: Czechoslovakia Profile: delicate, mild, floral aroma Typical use: finishing / dry hopping for Bavarian style lagers Example: Pilsener Urquell AA Range: 3 - 4.5% Substitute: None Name: SPALT Grown: Germany/US Profile: mild, pleasant, slightly spicy Typical use: aroma/finishing/flavoring Example: ??? AA Range: 3 - 6% Substitute: Saaz, Tettnanger. Name: STRISSELSPALT Grown: France -- Alsace area Profile: medium intensity, pleasant, similar to Hersbrucker Typical use: aroma/finishing Example: ??? AA Range: 3 - 5% Substitute: Hersbrucker, German Spalt Name: STYRIAN GOLDINGS Grown: Yugoslavia (Fuggles grown in Yugoslavia), also grown in US Profile: similar to Fuggles Typical use: bittering, aroma for a wide variety of beers, popular in Europe Example: ??? AA Range: 5.5 - 7 Substitute: Fuggles, Willamette Name: TETTNANGER Grown: Germany, US Profile: fine, very spicy aroma Typical use: finishing / dry hopping for German style lagers Example: Gulpener Pilsener AA Range: 4 - 6% Substitute: Saaz, Spalt Name: WILLAMETTE Grown: US Profile: mild, spicy, floral aroma Typical use: finishing / dry hopping for American / British style ales Example: Redhook ESB AA Range: 4 - 6% Substitute: Fuggles ******************************************************************************* The following hops are generally considered bittering hops: ******************************************************************************* Name: BREWER'S GOLD Grown: UK, US Profile: poor aroma Typical use: bittering for ales Example: ??? AA Range: 8 - 9% Substitute: Bullion Name: BULLION Grown: UK, US Profile: poor aroma Typical use: bittering hop for British style ales, perhaps some finishing Example: ??? AA Range: 8 - 11% Substitute: Brewer's Gold Name: CENTENNIAL Grown: US Profile: spicy, floral aroma, clean bittering hop (Super Cascade?) Typical use: general purpose bittering, aroma, some dry hopping Example: ??? AA Range: 9 - 11.5% Substitute: Cascade Name: CHINOOK Grown: US Profile: heavy spicy aroma, strong bittering hop, astringent in large quantities Typical use: strong bittering Example: ??? AA Range: 12 - 14% Substitute: Galena, Eroica, Brewer's Gold, Nugget, Bullion Name: CLUSTER Grown: US, Australia Profile: poor, sharp aroma, clean bittering hop Typical use: general purpose bittering (Aussie version used as finishing hop) Example: ??? AA Range: 5.5 - 8.5% Substitute: Galena, Cascade, Eroica Name: EROICA Grown: US Profile: clean bittering hop Typical use: general purpose bittering Example: ??? AA Range: 12 - 14% Substitute: Northern Brewer, Galena Name: GALENA Grown: US Profile: clean bittering hop Typical use: general purpose bittering Example: ??? AA Range: 12 - 14% Substitute: Northern Brewer, Eroica, Cluster Name: NUGGET Grown: US Profile: heavy, spicy, herbal aroma, strong bittering hop Typical use: strong bittering, some aroma uses Example: ??? AA Range: 12 - 14 Substitute: ??? Name: PERLE Grown: Germany, US Profile: pleasant aroma, almost minty bittering hop Typical use: general purpose bittering for all lagers except pilsener Example: ??? AA Range: 7 - 9.5% Substitute: ??? Name: PRIDE OF RINGWOOD Grown: Australia Profile: citric aroma, clean bittering hop Typical use: general purpose bittering Example: ??? AA Range: 9 - 11% Substitute: ??? - -- ****************************************************************************** End, part 5/5 End, Hops FAQ, Rev. 2 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 10:04:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> Subject: Re: Jack & the perfect chiller > From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) > Subject: Chillers > It is unfortunate that those who do not read rec.crafts.brewing missed the recent great debate on immersion vs counter-flow chillers. Kinney Bauman did > an admirable job of defending counter-flow in light of its obvious shortcomings and naturally lost to the Lighthouse of Wisdom and Truth. Not this again!! > I won't re-hash the whole argument here but in summary, not a single, > UNARGUABLE advantage could be brought in defense of counter-flow for home MY UNARGUABLE ADVANTAGE TO A COUNTERFLOW CHILLER: IT TRANSPORTS MY CAST OUT WORT FROM MY SUDHAUS TO MY FERMENTATION AREA, WITHOUT RISK OF INFECTION. It also uses less time and water (for my volume of brewing). By using this technique, I can run all kinds of caustics/acids/boiling water through a permenently installed pipeline, and rinse hot water through, diluting the bitter wort. > homebrewers. The counter-flow "snobs" are simply wrong on this one. Thats it, Jack has spoken, I must trash my equipment, send a Easycheck to the EasySalesman, get a EasyBrewery, and make easily chilled beer. Boy was I stupid to build my own brewery, when Jack had all the answers for me. > wort stays hot. The issue CAN be, how hot? If it falls below pasturization > temp and is open to the air, there is a risk of contamination. If it stays > near boiling, it is no worse than extending the boil that amount of time. > And keep in mind that PU simply air cools the wort till it reaches lower > temps. Probably garbage statements, certainly not a big issue if you have plenty of clean healthy yeast to pitch (like PU). > > To me, the most obvious disadvantage of the counter-flow chiller is that most > of what would have stayed behind in the kettle ends up in the fermenter > unless one does an additional settling step. Where it is scrubbed away during high krausen, and prior to this , is actually beneficial to yeast metabolism. Lets hope this thread is less tiresome than what soft drink mix's with which malt beverage. Good Chilling, Jim Busch Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 10:29:32 EDT From: Keith MacNeal 29-Oct-1993 1021 <macneal at pate.enet.dec.com> Subject: Wit Bier recipe There was a recent question about a recipe for a Wit Bier. Given that and the nice articles on Belgian Brewing lately I figured I'd post this recipe. It's based on one of Dave Miller's recipes in "Brewing the World's Great Beers" and some suggestions from HBD and the Cat's Meow. It was quite popular with my friends this summer. The only things I might do differently next time would be switch the yeast to a Belgian Ale yeast and try one of the German wheat extracts like the one that comes in a 2 kg can (actually, since I've made the switch to all grain for my last few batches I'd go all grain instead of using extract). The American Eagle Amber DME is very light -- about as light as most other brands' Light DME. If you use another brand, get a light. The only precaution I took with sanitation and the spices was to swab down my mortar and pestle with a bleach solution before crushing the coriander in it. If I remember correctly, the dried orange peel was from Spice Islands. 3.3 lbs. Munton & Fison Wheat Malt Extract 2 lbs. American Eagle Amber DME 1 oz. American Hallertau hop pellets (4.3% AA) 1 pkg. Wyeast Labs #1007 German Ale Yeast 1 oz. crushed coriander = oz. dried orange peel 1 cup corn sugar to prime OG = 1.038 FG = 1.012 Bring 2 gals. water to boil and add extracts. Add 2/3 oz. hops when it returns to boil and boil for 45 minutes. Add remaining 1/3 oz. hops and boil 15 minutes. Cool and strain into 3 gals. cold water in primary. Pitch yeast and ferment at 65-680F for about 1 week. Add coriander and orange peel to secondary and rack beer on top (either use a 6 gal. secondary or put a blowoff tube on it -- I clogged the airlock a couple of times before finally putting a blowoff tube on it). I bottled mine after 10 days in the secondary. The beer came out light in body and color. The carbonation, light body, and citrusy flavors from the spices made for a nice light, refreshing brew. I don't know how it stacks up to commercial brews of this type since I haven't had an opportunity to taste any. Enjoy, Keith MacNeal Digital Equipment Corp. Hudson, MA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 10:38:19 -0400 From: lincecum at med-biochem.bu.edu Subject: Advantages of ascorbic acid? I have been reading the forum for several weeks now and am impressed with the depth of experience and willingness to help fellow homebrewers with their questions. I have just brewed my first all-grain barley wine and will be aging it for several months. Unlike most of my beers which get sucked down by my thirsty friends as soon as they are carbonated I am a little concerned about long term oxidation problems with the barley wine. Will the addition of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) at bottling time improve the longeviety of the beer? Also what are the general advantages and disadvantages of ascorbic acid addition? Much thanks. John Lincecum lincecum at med-biochem.bu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 11:00:40 EDT From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu Subject: CF Chiller Effects on Hop Character All this discussion sounds like a good argument for a hop-back. =S Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 11:14:41 EDT From: pavao at ptsws1 (John D. Pavao) Subject: THE NEW ENGLAND BEER CLUB Hi, Is the NEW ENGLAND BEER CLUB list still active? If so, could someone please send me the address to use when requesting a subscription. Thanks. John pavao at ptsws1.npt.nuwc.navy.mil Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 93 09:53:25 -0700 From: Drew Lynch <drew at chronologic.com> Subject: Re: Chillers >>>>> On Tue, 26 Oct 93 12:20 CDT, arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) said: Jack> I won't re-hash the whole argument here but in summary, Jack> not a single, UNARGUABLE advantage could be brought in Jack> defense of counter-flow for home brewers and most of the Jack, I'm quite sure that in your case there is _no_such_thing_ as an UNARGUABLE _anything_ :-) Jack> So, I hereby challange the counter-flowers to start Jack> your engines.... Silent long enough I guess.... I would love to have stayed with my immersion chiller. It is easier to sanitize, use and store. The problem is that it simply did not work well enough. My tap water is barely below desired pitching temperatures most of the year. As long as the temperature differential between the wort and water is high, immersion chillers work great. As that differential decreases, the advantage goes to CF chillers. The bottom line here (at least for me) is water conservation. My 50' immersion chiller used in excess of 30 gallons of water to chill a 5 gallon batch of boiling wort, and my pump driven 40' CF chiller uses less than half that, _and_ gets the wort colder. As a side benefit, I finally get the cornflake sized cold break that I _never_ witnessed before. Also, remember, we all brew a little differently. What is ideal for one persons style is useless for another. I cannot think of one thing I could change in my brewery that would not demand some other compensating change. Every method has advantages and drawbacks, and each brewer must make his or her own choices. Drew Lynch Chronologic Simulation, Los Altos, Ca. (415)965-3312x18 drew at chronologic.com Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1261, 11/02/93