HOMEBREW Digest #1280 Wed 24 November 1993

Digest #1279 Digest #1281

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  twist-offs, and bottlestuff (Dick Dunn)
  Getting the yeast to drop (23-Nov-1993 0757 -0500)
  Bottle Pressure (was Crabtree Effect) (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
  RE: clarifying Wyeast 1028 (npyle)
  Get a life! ("Pamela J. Day 7560")
  chiller break in (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
  sam and wasted wort (Mark Bunster)
  PureSeal caps (Chuck Wettergreen)
  Tannin extraction (Ed Hitchcock)
  yeast wash (RONALD DWELLE)
  Glatt malt mill users (David Pike)
  "beer" adds (James Clark)
  new chiller, SA (Russell Gelinas)
  Anchor "clarifications" (Mark Garetz)
  Metallic/Mineral Flavor (Patrick_Waara.WBST129)
  howto siphon hot wort (Andy Rowan)
  Lovibond (Gary S. Kuyat)
  Tarpit Stout && Can we repitch with champagne yeast in secondary? (Trever Miller)
  Mail Order (Don Pickerel  at  Micom.com)
  Kegging FAQ (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
  kegging pressures (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
  Rauchbier aroma (WESTEMEIER)
  calcium chloride (Rob Skinner)
  Hops as preservatives/Dryhopping problem/Brown Ale yeast/dark mash (korz)
  Crabtree/sterols/peroxide (korz)

Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 23 Nov 93 00:39:15 MST (Tue) From: rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn) Subject: twist-offs, and bottlestuff I don't think there's any particular trend to twist-off caps. Brewers just choose one or the other when they get going. Sierra Nevada has *always* used twist-offs, as far as I remember. I can't verify that all the way back to the beginning, but I've got an '83 Celebration Ale here, and one of the original Bigfoot with the line- drawing (no color) label, both of which are twist-off. [BTW, anybody know when that first Bigfoot was brewed? I'm sure it's 86 or earlier. Is it time to drink it yet?:-] As for re-capping twistoffs, it's probably a good-news/bad-news situation. The good news is that the "threads" on the bottle are pretty fragile, so if a bottle is getting old, that might be the first place that fails. The bad news is that you find out the bottle is getting old *after* you've filled it and tried to cap it. In this area, there seems to be a microbrewery preference for the 22 oz (US arcane measure) longnecks. They seem to be reasonably sturdy, and the packing density on storage shelves is pretty good. I used to like the 25 oz Tooth's Sheaf Stout bottles, but they've changed the bottle (phoo on the silly CUB stamped label) and it's a lot easier to get bottles from the variety of products from 4 local breweries plus various west-coast micros than from one brew shipped half way 'round the world. 5 gal, even with carboy headspace and sediment, is still more than 2 cases of 22 oz, but I bottle the rest in 12 oz for taste checks, solo drinking, etc. - --- Dick Dunn rcd at eklektix.com -or- raven!rcd Boulder, Colorado USA ...Simpler is better. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 07:59:18 EST From: 23-Nov-1993 0757 -0500 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com> Subject: Getting the yeast to drop >Date: Mon, 22 Nov 93 15:44:44 EST >From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst at zk3.dec.com> >Subject: clarifying Wyeast 1028 > >I've never had problems clearing beer until I started using Wyeast #1028 >(London Ale). Is there a fining agent other than Isinglass that will >get this yeast to drop to the bottom? Tony, you might try chilling your brew (while in the fermenter) to make the yeast drop. One micro I toured in the UK does this to clean their beer - they chill their ale to make the yeast fall... JC ferguson Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 08:38:39 -0600 From: trl at photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965) Subject: Bottle Pressure (was Crabtree Effect) In HBD 1279, Todd Carlson writes: As for the CO2, the 1.61 moles produced would increase the pressure to about 2 atmospheres or 30 psi (again using PV=nRT) assuming the beer is already saturated with CO2. As for the ethanol, this would be a maximum estimate. What is the desired CO2 pressure of finished beer? Does this sound about right? For most beer styles, 2.5 volumes of CO2 is normal. At 70F, beer contains about 2.4 volumes at 28 PSI, and 2.7 volumes at 32 PSI. This from a chart published by Standard-Keil (a beverage dispensing equipment manufacturer). So your calculations are right close, perfesser. Thanks. t Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 8:20:31 MST From: npyle at n33.stortek.com Subject: RE: clarifying Wyeast 1028 Anton Verhulst writes: >I've never had problems clearing beer until I started using Wyeast #1028 (London Ale). Is there a fining agent other than Isinglass that will get this yeast to drop to the bottom? Anton, if memory serves me correctly, 1028 is the stickiest yeast I've ever used. I mean it goes to the bottom, and stays there; which makes for great pouring. I wonder if you've got another problem unrelated to the yeast??? Norm Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 10:19:00 EST From: "Pamela J. Day 7560" <DAY at A1.TCH.HARVARD.EDU> Subject: Get a life! To those of you have been bashing anyone and everyone that you don't agree with, I really thought that this was supposed to be a constructive and informative forum on Homebrewing. Jim Koch is not, I repeat not a homebrewer, he is a salesman. Frankly, I'm almost as tired of reading all this "venting" on the Digest as I am of hearing Koch's commercials on the radio, but I'm not calling for a boycott of the digest. Why don't you all stop whining out inane opinions and get back on track and talk about brewing! Most of us out here seem to be seeking advice and are not out to stroke our own egos by flaming those we don't agree with. If you don't agree with someone, offer a polite, constructive and well-thought alternative. Enough mothering, let's get back to brewing. Remember, PLAY NICE! Pam Day Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 10:15:20 EST From: Lee=A.=Menegoni at nectech.com Subject: chiller break in Assuming you made an Immersion chiller: The only thing you need to do is ensure ther are no machine oils on the out side. When I made an immersion chiller. I soaked it in a bucket full of hot water and lots of dish soap, dish soap cuts through oil. I rinsed it off and then soaked it in a bucket that I added vinegar to. The thing came out looking like a new penny. When I brew: After completing my sparge I drain my mash tun into a food grade bucket and add any extra acidified sparge water. I soak the chiller in this the low PH cleans off the metal. I then put it in the boiling wort, this cause the boil to subside, when the boil commences again I wait 3-5 minutes before running the water. I also capture run off water in the base to my shop vac, in which I have put my brew pot sitting on top of a couple bricks. This reduces water use and reduces cooling time. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 11:24:57 EST From: Mark Bunster <mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu> Subject: sam and wasted wort * Chris>Your loss. Although Koch may be a slime bag, he makes a decent * Chris>product. * *Yes, he makes decent beer. But so do literally hundreds of good, decent people * who avoid using the strong-arm tactics of the neighborhood bully to sell their *product. Of the hundreds of brewers attending this year's GABF, the BBC tmtmtm * was the only one in violation of GABF marketing rules. They were only allowed * to attend because the GABF feared the threat of a lawsuit, which it certainly * does not need. So, why would you want to buy beer from these people? You can * buy good beer, better than Koch's, from good people. I'm with Al on this one: * * BOYCOTT SAM ADAMS PRODUCTS!!! Please elucidate on the GABF situation. I always wondered how you could have the "best beer", since I assumed there were about 500 zillion categories. What exactly does it win? Also, I see this thread an awful lot in music--ie, so and so "sold out." The implication becomes that if you can get it anywhere, it must not be very good, and the only thing that saves your own beer drinking ego is if you can prove you know of some great obscure beer produced in a chicken shack by two dwarf gypsy albino seamstresses with no arms that you can only get three days of the year cause that's the only time they come to market with it. Until I see evidence of slave labor, rats in the bottles, or use of a counterflow chiller (just kidding Mr. Schmid), I need more proof before I eschew dollar draft Sam's at my local pub. * * >Would you eat a sandwich you dropped on the garage floor? * why would anyone want to ferment a sandwich?? :-) * When I was ready to take the plunge to all-grain, * several friends talked me into going with the picnic * cooler setup. I'm glad they did; it's the closest you can * get to unattended brewing. There is no worry about scorched * grain, stirring, etc. * Can you describe this method further?? * Subject: Boiler siphoning * * * I am leaving too much wort behind in my boiler after siphoning to * primary fermenter. I leave about .75 gal as a combination of what is * held in the hops and what is left because the hop bed causes my siphon * to "break". I use a Sankey keg as a boiler. It has a 1/2" pipe * nipple coming in from the side and an elbow and nipple going down into * the botto. Over the nipple is a screen (1/8" grid) to keep out the * whole hops. When I let liquid out and there is no hops, then all but * about 1/2 cup of liquid is removed. * * 1) How much liquid do you leave in your boiler including * in the hop bed. * 2) Any suggestions, or do I just figure in the excess wort * needed to be left behind? Not to once again discount the folks who like to build stuff for their brewing (not at all, really), but here's what we do: 1. Boil. 2. grab sanitized saucepan and sanitized strainer, common household kind. 3. fill saucepan with wort and lots of hops, pour into strainer. 4. fill saucepan with wort and as little hops as possible, pour into strainer. 5. when strainer is full of hops, dump and repeat from #3 until pot is empty. The whole hops do a really good job of straining everything else, like pieces of whole hops, pellets from perhaps a finishing, and some of your specialty malt grains. Just don't set either the saucepan or the strainer down, to keep things clean. I'd say we waste about 6 oz of concentrated wort with this method. It takes two people to work best, though. Maybe some of these machines are to help you better brew alone, to which I say shame on you--find a friend to help. Cuts costs, passes time better, spurs a perhaps previously unknown bond between you. Or (gasp) maybe even try to involve your spouse! Brewing beer alone I fear would make me pretty much a drunk. - -- Mark Bunster |Exchange conversation if you dare-- Survey Research Lab--VCU |Share an empty thought or a laugh. Richmond, VA 23220 | mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu | (804) 367-8813/353-1731 | -edFROM Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 09:16:00 -0600 From: chuck.wettergreen at aquila.com (Chuck Wettergreen) Subject: PureSeal caps In HBD 1279 Carl Howes wrote: CH> what good is a PureSeal (tm) cap considering that it has been > shipped/stored in a 20 percent oxygen atmosphere for some > indeterminite period before use? According to the instructions from the manufacturer, the caps are moisture activated. They should not be boiled, but rather rinsed with sanitizing solution and used immediately. If you're real gutsy you can just use them without sanitizing and give your bottle one quick shake after capping to let the beer do the activation. Chuck * RM 1.2 00946 * Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 13:00:26 -0400 From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH at ac.dal.ca> Subject: Tannin extraction To my comment: > > I know he's only baiting us, but I feel like a sucker this morning. > The mash has a buffering effect, yes. As the goodies are drawn off, > however, the pH does rise. This is quite variable.... Jack rebuts: > Indeed it is and makes it clear that I wasn't baiting anyone and the rest of > your response makes a mockery of all the absolute dogma that has been > pronounced on the subject. Every situation is different and brewers must > either know exactly what conditions prevail or experiment to find out what > works best. Ahem. Absolute dogma? Now who has been spouting that? I agree, and state in my post that situations are different for different brewers. Jack, on the other hand, has said to (I paraphrase) "ignore the experts and do it my way," without reference to the fact that it may be fluke that his way works. Agreed, as many options should be expressed as possible, but an explanation, caveat, disclaimer, whatever should be included if known. > >It does indicate, however, that your pH is rising, and soon will reach a > level that will extract noticeable quantities of tannins from the husks. > > Rising, yes.. but "soon"? How can you possibly know that without knowing the > water chemestry and that of the mash? And what magic level "extracts > noticeable quantities of tannins"? What if I don't reach that level till the > last pint of sparge water? Excuse my brevity. Read: "Tannins are extracted to a greater degree the more the pH of the mash rises above 5.3, and if unchecked this rise will lead to astringent flavours. This rise is dependant on water chemistry, ingredients and techniques." There is no "Magic level". It is a gradual process, but cumulative. > > In the decotion mash, you have a thick mash which has not had > the sugars and acids removed, so the pH stays low. Where's the problem? > > I believe I was the one who suggested that there is no problem. You suggested there was no problem with the sparge, and argued it by asking why tannins were not extracted during a decoction. ____________ Ed Hitchcock ech at ac.dal.ca | Oxymoron: Draft beer in bottles. | Anatomy & Neurobiology | Pleonasm: Draft beer on tap. | Dalhousie University, Halifax |___________________________________| Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 12:23:42 EST From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE) Subject: yeast wash Can someeone clarify for me: The "yeast.faq" describes the process of washing yeast. You pour the sterile water into the carboy, slosh, and pour it back into the jar. Then you "agitate the jar to allow separation of the components. Continue to agitate periodically until obvious separation is noticeable." This step doesn't seem to work. The more I agitate, the more homogeneous the stuff becomes. Can someone elaborate. Does the yeast stay in suspension and everything that settles is trub? (It looks like the yeast settles too, no? Or did I just wait too long?) I was doing lager yeast--is that maybe different from aleyeast? Is the sterile water separate from the yeast? Tanks, Ron Dwelle (dweller at gvsu.edu) "Ninety-Nine Bottle of Beer on the Floor." Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 10:30:37 -0800 (PST) From: davep at cirrus.com (David Pike) Subject: Glatt malt mill users Ok, all you Glatt malt mill users, please email me directly with your satisfaction rating for this mill. Its time to give my list to Santa and this may make the final cut. Cheers, Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 10:43:51 -0500 From: jeclark at ucdavis.edu (James Clark) Subject: "beer" adds I know this has nothing to do with homebrewing, but neither does the Sam Adams debate that is ravaging this list right now. This is just to vent my frustration: I am getting a little disgusted with commercials for mega-swill "beers" that are humorous but that have absolutely nothing to do with the beer itself. I mean, a few years ago they would at least take a five second breather from the funnies to show a glass with some pale yellow liquid in it, and actually say something about the swill. now they don't even do that. I doubt very seriously that anyone who is on this list drinks bud light, but there has to be something else we can do besides just avoiding the stuff. I just don't think it's fair that these corporations have so much power. - --james p.s. maybe I should just avoid all forms of media so that I don't get so annoyed about this. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 11:30:59 -0500 (EST) From: gelinas at ekman.unh.edu (Russell Gelinas) Subject: new chiller, SA A great way to clean a new immersion chiller is to boil it in a solution of vineger and water. About '*this much* vinegar should do it :-). The chiller will come out shiny. As for Jim Koch/Sam Adams, we boycotters realize he makes a good beer, that he's allowed some credit for the microbrewing boom, and he personally is probably not really a slimeball. But his marketing tactics are obnoxious, harmful to the Boston brewing climate, and ultimately unnecessary. Personally, I don't much care if he wants to spend his money on advertising, though I would appreciate a little more truthfulness. What irks me is when he uses his money to hire lawyers for copywrite lawsuits, etc., forcing other breweries to use *their* money to fend him off. He would have my $$ to brew and advertise, he won't get it to run down other breweries. Russ Gelinas eos unh Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 10:53:35 PST From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz at hoptech.com> Subject: Anchor "clarifications" Glen A. Wagnecz writes (in response to my post about Anchor's Fritz Maytag's claims that dry-hopped beers last longer): > Have these beers that last this long been carbonated via >priming or forced carbonated? I was under the impression that beers >that are carb'd via priming last only about 2-3 months, due to the >presence of the spent yeast sediment in the bottle. Please "clarify" >whether these long lasting beers were primed or forced and other >necessary specifics. > Thanks In Advance- > Glen >P.S. Thanks for the catalog, are the '93 whole hops in yet? I don't know how the original Liberty/Christmas Ales were carbonated, but all of Anchor's current products are "naturally carbonated" which they do by sealing their secondary fermentation stage so the CO2 goes into solution instead of escaping to the atmosphere. I don't believed they are "krausened" with gyle, just sealed up at the appropriate time in fermentation. The beers are all centrifuged to remove the yeast and then flash pasteurized on the way to bottling. BTW, the very first, and only, Liberty/Christmas/Anchor Ale was made with sugar as well as malt, because "that's the way the Brits did it." I have heard that the presence of yeast in the bottle also tends to help the beer keep. I have some one-year old SNPA that is still fine. We are shipping some '93 now and will have it all available in a few weeks. Please call for details as this is not the politically correct place to post details. Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 11:39:00 PST From: Patrick_Waara.WBST129 at xerox.com Subject: Metallic/Mineral Flavor Hi, The last two batches of beer I've made have had an unpleasant (but not undrinkable) metallic/mineral flavor. You can taste it on the back of your tongue and on the roof of your mouth. Both of these beers are a darker variety (a brown ale and a stout). I have only had this happen two other times in the nearly 100 or so batches I have made, and I cannot figure out what could have caused it. The first two times it happened (over two years ago), I blamed it on adding Bourton Salts or Gypsum to my water. I stopped adding anything to my water and the flavor did not reappear until now. The only difference in these batches and identical sucessful batches is that I used Wyeast liquid ale yeast instead of Whitbread dry ale yeast. I used the Irish ale yeast for the stout and London Ale yeast for the brown ale. I have use other Wyeast varieties with no problems whatsoever. Can anyone tell me what may have caused this metallic/mineral flavor in these batches? Is there some specific thing that can cause this flavor? It isn't just a characteristic of these yeasts, is it? If possible, please respond by mail to Waara.wbst129 at xerox.com. I have been having difficulty keeping up with the digests lately, so please excuse me if this has been discussed recently. ~Pat Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 14:58:11 EST From: rowan at landfill.rutgers.edu (Andy Rowan) Subject: howto siphon hot wort OK, first the preliminaries. I'm talking about extract brewing, so keep in mind the restrictions: lazy, uninformed, etc. Having heard all the hullabaloo about hot side aeration, I want to avoid it. Up until now I pour from the kettle, through a funnel, into the carboy which has 3gal cold water in it. So siphoning instead of pouring seemed like a simple solution. So I tried a couple of stupid ideas, which didn't work, and now I'm looking for better ideas. I did my last batch with pellet hops, so I wanted to keep the crud from going into the carboy. So I stuck some cheesecloth over the end of the hose but it slowed the flow so much that I couldn't keep the siphon going. I guess the pot scrubber idea is worth trying, but will the hop crudge pass through it? And how do you keep it on there? Has anyone come up with a nifty-neato design for something to do this? Something like a metal tube with a little screen doohickey on the end? Not being a welder, I don't really want to make a hole in my kettle and install a spigot so I don't have to siphon... Andy ================================================== | Andy Rowan | | Center for Remote Sensing and Spatial Analysis | | Rutgers University, New Brunswick NJ USA | | rowan at ocean.rutgers.edu | ================================================== "Is the glass half empty or half full?" I ask her as I fill it. "It doesn't really matter, pretty soon you're bound to spill it." - --Indigo Girls Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 15:07:14 "EST From: Gary S. Kuyat <gsk at sagan.bellcore.com> Subject: Lovibond Full-Name: Gary S. Kuyat I remember reading that there was some formula or chart describing how to mix Michalob (sp?) and water to get x degrees Lovibond. True or False? This probably belongs in a FAQ... If nobody knows, are there any books with pictures? - -- -Gary Kuyat gsk at sagan.bellcore.com (908)699-8422 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 13:25:42 MDT From: Trever Miller <amby at wooga.cuc.ab.ca> Subject: Tarpit Stout && Can we repitch with champagne yeast in secondary? Here's something we started the other day... questions follow at the end.... -- BUG =================================================== Ye Olde Tarpit Stout (Brewed on November 21 1993 by Ambush Bug and Satanic Garden Rake) Ingredients: Munton & Fison Dark-hopped Malt Extract (3.3 pounds) Munton & Fison 3 pound Stout Kit 4.5 pounds blackstrap molasses (About 60% sucrose and 40% flavoring extracts) 25 grams of Fuggles leaf hops a pinch of cinnamon (Just a _pinch_! Or, Mr. Bug's idea of a "pinch". Ie., a small handful) Destructions: Over a period of about an hour's worth of boiling, the following were added: Brew pot 1: (Bug's pot) Bring 2.5 gallons water to boil dump in stout kit stir dump in 5 grams leaf hops stir dump in dark malt (15 min into boil) stir dump in 1/2 the rest leaf hops (35 min into boil) stir Brew pot 2: (SGR's pot) Bring 1.5 gallon water to boil dump in 4.5 pounds molasses. (NOTE: _Not_ all at once. Spread this out over about the first 1/2 hour of the boil.) stir dump in 5 grams leaf hops stir dump in 2 cups corn sugar (40 min into boil) stir dump in remaining hops (45 min into boil) stir BOIL THE HELL OUT OF IT! (Specifically, about an hour or so.) Dump contents of brew pots into primary fermenter. Stir. Pad volume with boiling water to 5 gallons. Cool down. Pitch. GO YEASTIES!! NOTES: November 22, 1993 4 1/2 pounds of blackstrap molasses may actually have been a tad excessive. (This was the thickest, darkest wort I've ever seen on ANY homebrew.) That actually makes quite a hefty portion of the total fermentables, like about 35% or so. That in itself wouldn't be bad, but the molasses in that quantity may prove to have a _really_ overpowering flavor. You can smell the wort from outside the door of our apartment. It may have been better to go with lighter molasses, or less of it. (Mind you, that may turn out to be a _good_ thing. I dunno. I'll have to sample some when we transfer it to the carboy. I have a feeling that once the yeasties finish munching on this one, we may be kicking on some barley wines for strength.) -- SGR [Also, we didn't bother to borrow a hydrometer... My guess is we can eyeball it for when it's time to transfer to secondary etc. -- BUG] November 23, 1993 We have a good fermentation going... approx a 6" head of nice brown foam and the hop leaves. -- BUG =================================================== Query : We pitched the dry yeast that came with the stout kit. We were wondering how one would go about pitching some sort of champagne yeast upon transfer to the secondary. We've already got just over 23 litres in the primary, and don't want to add any more volume than necessary (won't fit in secondary....). If we just pitched in one or two packets of dry champagne yeast into it upon transfer to secondary, what's going to happen? Will the original yeast be too numerous for the new ones to get a foothold? -- BUG - -- millertr at cuug.ab.ca (Preferred) Snail Mail: #557, 918 - 16 Ave NW or Calgary, Alberta T2M 0K3 ambush_bug at wooga.cuc.ab.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 12:35:21 PST From: pickerel at micom.com (Don Pickerel at Micom.com) Subject: Mail Order A public thanks to everyone that took the time to send me info on mail order supplies. I guess the picture of a fellow brewer going dry was a scary thought. I've put the replies together into a list if anyone else is interested, though it would be nice if it got into an FAQ ( hint). Also, one of the most recommended places was St. Patrick's of Texas in Austin. While talking to Lynne she said she could read e-mail but not get anything out, so if there are any volunteers in that region.... I would offer but it's kind of hard to trouble shoot from S. Cal. I will offer any advice I can. Again thanks. pickerel at micom.com - -- -Don- - ---- -Don- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 16:06:13 -0600 From: trl at photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965) Subject: Kegging FAQ I have begun work on a kegging FAQ and I will need a few knowledegable contributors and reviewers to help me. I mean to cover a pretty wide range of topics that will include bottle conditioning. I am especially looking for chemists, physicists, cellarmen, and biologists to contribute to and review certain parts of the FAQ. I plan to develop the FAQ over a period of several weeks, but I do expect to make progress. I am also interested in submitting the FAQ to _Brewing Techniques_ for publication. I do not plan to post every iteration of the FAQ to the two Internet Digests. A proposed outline is below. t ============================================================================= Tom Leith InterNet: trl at wuerl.WUstl.EDU 4434 Dewey Ave. CompuServe: 70441,3536 St. Louis, Missouri 63116 "Tho' I could not caution all 314/362-6965 - Office I still might warn a few: 314/362-6971 - Office Fax Don't lend your hand 314/481-2512 - Home + Infernal Machine to raise no flag atop no Ship of Fools" ============================================================================= I) Kegging Procedures and Equipment a) Introduction i) Kegging vs. Cask Conditioning vs. Bottle Conditioning, What Does It Mean, and How Does It Taste? ii) What's the Same wrt Bottling iii) What's Different wrt Bottling b) Carbonation i) Carbonation Levels ii) What's Meant by "Volumes" iii) Chemistry & Physics of Carbonation Include ideal gas law, and equations iv) Practical Application of Principles Include tables generated from iii c) Equipment i) Kegs ii) CO2 Tanks iii) Pressure Regulators iv) Dispensing Equipment v) Referigerators and Controls vi) Filters and Such d) Putting Product into Kegs i) Sanitation ii) Transfer from Carboy iii) Transfer from Another Keg iv) Filtering e) Dispensing i) Maintaining Carbonation ii) Maintaining Sanitation iii) From Keg to Glass iv) Troubleshooting f) Cask Conditioning i) Introduction ii) Procedures iii) Dispensing Equipment iv) Troubleshooting g) Equipment Suppliers h) References Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 17:00:20 -0500 From: Larry Atkinson <atkinson at cae33.Mitel.COM> Subject: Used Brewery Kegs I was walking around the local flea market last weekend and came across an old Labatts brewery keg (labelled 1987). The size looked like the standard 66L (15.5 gal) keg, but instead of a single fitting on top for both C02 and beer tap, this one had two circular fittings, one on the top, presumably for CO2 and another on the side near the bottom probably for a tap. On the side about halfway up was a bung. Here's the catch. Neither CO2 or tap connection had any hardware connected to it. Does anyone out there in homebrew land know anthing about this type of keg especially if and where you can buy the attachments? I am presently kegging with one 5 gal. pop keg, but up here in Canada even the used Cornelius kegs go for $80 Cdn ($65 US), so I would hate to pass up a bargain if the Labatts keg is useable. Any thoughts or comments are welcomed. On a related note, I tried calling Defalcos in Texas about kegs, but got the same response as another recent poster, that they will not ship these anymore. Seems that UPS is just too much of a pain for them. Does anyone know of an alternate source in the Northern New York area. Ottawa is only 1 hr from the New York border (and ~3 hrs from Syracuse) so I figure that a Saturday day trip is not out of the question. Thanks, Larry Atkinson atkinson at cae.mitel.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 16:54:38 -0600 From: trl at photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965) Subject: kegging pressures Last week, there was a kegging question, that I fired a from-the-hip answer to. The concepts were OK, but I got a constant wrong. Here is the table of values I really used when designing my dispensing system. This will end-up in the kegging FAQ, but I promised it sooner than that 8-) t Resistance Data - Source: Standard-Keil Catalog - ----------+---------------------------------------------------- | pounds of resistance per running foot inside | diameter | Vinyl Polyethylene Stainless Steel - ----------+---------------------------------------------------- 3/16" | 2.20 2.20 ----- 1/4" | .60 .60 2.00 5/16" | .20 .20 .50 3/8" | .10 .064 .20 - ----------+---------------------------------------------------- Two feet of vertical lift provides 1 pound of resistance Two feet of vertical drop adds 1 pound of apparent pressure, ie: requires 1 pound additional resistance Proper flow-rate is two ounces/second at the faucet The goal: match the resistance of the dispensing line to the pressure in the keg. Pressure at the faucet should be very nearly zero. So, if your beer is stored under 14 PSIG, and your faucet is 18" above the center of your keg: 3/4# resistance due to vertical rise 1# resistance due to miscellaneous fittings 12-1/4# resistance due to 5'7" 3/16" vinyl beer line -------- 14 PSI Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 21:54:40 -0400 (EDT) From: WESTEMEIER at delphi.com Subject: Rauchbier aroma My personal specialty is a Bamberg-style rauchbier. The smoke flavor is something I really enjoy and I always get great comments on it whenever I make a batch. My technique is very simple. I use an ordinary backyard smoker. I get the grain slightly damp, smoke it over wood chips for an hour or so, then let it dry for a few days. After that, I mash and brew normally. Experimentation has shown that the Wyeast Bavarian Lager yeast works best, and smoking between one-half and three-quarters of the grain provides the right level of smokiness. My problem is that although the smoke comes through wonderfully well in the flavor, my beer is always eliminated in competitions because the smoke is so subtle in the aroma that it's not in the same league with the winners. I have tasted some of the winners at competitions in this category, and they generally smell and taste like the brewery was burning down around the batch as it was brewed. What am I not doing right? Short of using some sort of "liquid smoke" solution (which I absolutely refuse to try), is there some trick to get the smoke aroma to express itself more strongly? Any suggestions would be welcome. Ed Westemeier, Cincinnati, Ohio westemeier at delphi.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 16:50:00 +0800 From: rob.skinner at kandy.com (Rob Skinner) Subject: calcium chloride I found that a good source for calcium chloride, lactic acid, and any many chemicals needed for various experimentation is Chem-Lab Supplies at (714) 630-7902. Their price for lactic acid is $8.75 for 4oz. Calcium chloride runs $6 for 16 oz. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 12:12 CST From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: Hops as preservatives/Dryhopping problem/Brown Ale yeast/dark mash Mark writes: >Actually there are studies that show that hop oils (responsible for the >aroma) do have a preservative effect and do inhibit the growth of >bacteria. Interesting. >And for an informal opinion, Fritz Maytag strongly believes >that dry-hopped beers last much longer (like 10-20 years) than beers that >are not dry hopped. He bases this on tasting his Christmas Ales from >many years ago (that he has in his own collection and that people send >to him). He claims that a 17 year old Christmas Ale he tasted was still >quite good, but he admits it is not exactly the same as when it was brewed, >but certainly not spoiled. I don't believe this is a valid datapoint. I contend that Christmas Ales are often much higher in alcohol and that may skew this data. >Also historical data shows that IPAs (the >real ones destined for India by boat) were called for (by contract) to have >a high dry hopping level ("2 lbs of Kent hops per hogshead" which translates >to 2.47 ozs per five gallons). You fail to mention that they had bittering hop rates that would translate to IBUs in the vicinity of 200. High dryhopping levels may just have been required so that there is some hop nose in the final product. Recall that these were wooden kegs and that oxygen is known to kill hop nose. I don't disagree with the initial premise, but the last two examples I feel are not good supporting arguments. ************ Drew writes: > This morning, I took gravity readings and tasted both sub-batches. >The non-dryhopped bottle was at 1.024, crystal clear, and tasted >great. The dry hopped batch was at 1.014, cloudy, and astringent, and >I can only assume, infected. There are three possiblities that I see: > >1) unclean equipment used in the dry hopped sub batch - Very Unlikely > >2) bacteria carried on hops into the beer - ??? > >3) Excessive handling with bare hands introduced bacteria into dry > hopped batch - very likely I think it may have been 1, 2 or 3, but more likely not bacterial, but rather wild yeast, and most likely (IMO) the mesh bag. I, personally, feel that they are difficult to sanitize well and diffucult to clean well after use. ************* George L writes: >Does anyone know whether British Ale Yeast is the most appropriate liquid >yeast for brewing Northern style Brown Ales? It would be appropriate, but if you like diacetyl (butterscotch) you may want to consider using Wyeast Irish (#1084). The British is reportedly the Whitbread triple-strain yeast (with nice, tart overtones), whereas the Irish Ale is allegedly the Guinness yeast. I think that either of these yeasts are a good choice for a Northern-style Brown Ale. ************ Mark A writes: 1) I brewed a porter because my water is high in bicarbs and I didn't want to worry about messing around with my water too much. Since Noonan and Miller and just about everyone else says that a dark mash has a higher p.h. I assume that they mean that I should add the dark grains to the mash at mash in. Otherwise, I will have a mash which is the same as a pale ale mash and will have p.h. problems. Is this not correct? You got everything right except switched the high-low pH deal. Dark grains acidify your mash, i.e. LOWER pH, so if you have high carbonate water, you do want to add the dark grains in the mash. > gotten conversion. So, how do you check for conversion of a dark mash? You place a drop of mash liquid and a drop of iodine next to each other on a white plate and then carefully watch as you run one into the other. It's not easy to spot color change due to starch/dextrins, but you'll get the hang of it. > according to miller it seems that I should do the following: > > Degrees = (1.061 * 4.25)/10 = .45 > > since my total grain bill came to 10 lbs (8 lbs pale malt) and I > was only left with 4.25 gal. You should leave off the water (1.000) when you do this: Points = (61 * 4.25)/10 = 25.92 Basically, 26 points/lb/gal. Not bad -- I would say a decent extraction is between 25 and 30. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 93 13:27 CST From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: Crabtree/sterols/peroxide Ulick writes: >I have one question. Al mentioned that the Crabtree effect will occur if >monosaccharides predominate. Is this true for fructose, and if so what Yes. If fructose + glucose levels are above a certain level (0.5% I believe) the yeast will have a tendancy to go into anaerobic fermentation (Crabtree effect) also. Note that if Oxygen levels are VERY high (sorry, don't have my books here) the Pasteur effect can force the yeast to go into respiration. It is my understanding (from discussions with George Fix) that in a high monosaccharide, high-O2 environment, the Crabtree and Pasteur effects are in contention -- I must admit I don't really know all there is to know about this. >happens when sucrose is present? Would the sucrose become invert (fructose >and glucose) if added to the slightly acid beer as a bottling sugar, or >would the repiration phase be intiated as in the case of maltose or Sucrose is converted to a glucose and a fructose pair by the enzyme invertase which is excreted by the yeast. BTW, I read somewhere, that sucrose has twice the carbonating potential of corn sugar (dextrose, glucose), but have never seen it anywhere else. I don't think this is true. Anyone know for sure? ************* Somone (sorry) asked about sterol synthesis. I believe the sterols are used in building the cell walls. Poorly oxygenated wort is said to reduce the yeast's alcohol tolerance and this may be related to the sterol synthesis. ************ Fisher writes: >A good friend of mine works in the food processing industry, and he >says that I should use hydrogen peroxide to sanitize, like the food >pros do. Is this a good idea? I am not motivated to change, but he >won't leave me alone without a rebuttal. You can use B-Brite or One-Step Sanitizer. They are peroxide-based. The active ingredient in both is Sodium Percarbonate, which (if I understand correctly) is sort of like Sodium Carbonate (washing soda) and Hydrogen Peroxide when it is mixed with water. Al. Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1280, 11/24/93