HOMEBREW Digest #1306 Fri 24 December 1993

Digest #1305 Digest #1307

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Samual Smith's quest - Pt. 2 (Bill A. Danforth)
  Hops Storage Question (Mark Garetz)
  capping/hoptea/etcetera (RONALD DWELLE)
  re: mosaic beer page (Jim Sims)
  5 Liter Kegs (woodie)
  RE:MASH\LAUTER TUN (greg.demkowicz)
  RE: Cider flavour; priming (John Mare)
  A-B and Jim <shudder> Koch (Jeff Frane)
  judgenet (btalk)
  Water Hard/Soft Info. (David P. Atkins)
  (simple)beer/wine suggestions ("kim.paffenroth.1")
  copper manifold/cleaning brass/mashing corn meal/grain source (Joel Birkeland)
  Re: Ad. Age Dec. 13 (LLDSC)
  Another Purple Dinosaur ("T.J. Ramsey")
  Where did it go? (Ken Sager)
  sign me up, please (MARTE)
  Hoegaardse Wit vs. Celis White, a survey. (yeebot)
  stainless/copperbottom brewpots (Ivan Shantz)
  HB shop loons/Spray Malt/Extract Tang/Keg Prices (npyle)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Dec 93 16:12:51 PST From: danforth at trinity.llnl.gov (Bill A. Danforth) Subject: Samual Smith's quest - Pt. 2 Hello all (again), About my quest for clones of Winter welcome and Pale Ale (SS's), can anyone give me ideas on the hops (and other possible flavorings) used in these two brews (Winter Welcome and Old Brewery Pale Ale)? many, many thanks!! Happy Holidays to all!! Bill Danforth danforth2 at llnl.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 93 16:16:13 PST From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz at hoptech.com> Subject: Hops Storage Question Ed Oriordan writes: >Question 1) I store my hops (pellets) in the freezer. They are not in oxygen >barrier bags, but in little heat sealed plastic bags. Would it help presserve >them if I put them (still in the bags) into a glass jar and filled the >jar with CO2, and then closed the jar and put it in the fridge. Yes. This will approximately double the storage life, or another way of looking at it is this will cut the rate of deterioration in half. Whether this makes any practical difference or not depends on how cold the hops are, (you've got them in the freezer, so that's good) and how fast you use them. If you use the hops within a month, it isn't going to matter much (assuming you keep them in the freezer). But if you store them longer, then it's worth the effort to CO2 flush them. I would suggest you fill the jar first, then put the hops in, then top up the jar. A more important question, though, is how have the hops been stored before you bought them? If they were stored in "little heat-sealed plastic bags" then they may have gone through a significant amount of deterioration already, again highly dependent on the temperature of the storage. I *am* assuming that these bags are polyethelene and not a barrier bag. Polyetheylene bags are the same as zip-lock or sandwich bags, and aren't an O2 barrier. *BUT* the homebrew industry is waking up and some of the major wholesalers are distributing their hops in O2 barrier material in small bags. So if these are the bags you have, then further putting them in the glass with CO2 is uneccessary. How can you tell the difference? Get a sandwich bag and compare the look and feel of the material. If it looks and feels substantially the same, then these bags provide virtually no protection. OTOH, barrier material is "shiny and polished" looking and is usually considerably stiffer than polyethelene. The ones I have seen from a major distributor also have little bumps molded into them (helps the vacuum sealer out). Your homebrew store may also have done their own packaging in barrier material (I don't mean to imply that only distributors provide hops in barrier packaging, some of the better homebrew stores and hop suppliers also take great care in their packaging and storage.) Probably the best test is leave the hops at room temp for a few hours and then smell the bag. If you can smell hops, then the bag is not barrier material. Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 08:52:21 EST From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE) Subject: capping/hoptea/etcetera A couple things: (These may already have been dealt with & I missed them--work has been interfering with my life...) On capping champagne bottles--normal caps will work on american bottles BUT the capper I have (it's the jerk-and-squeeze-em type, not a bench top) will not work because the champagne bottles below the bulge are bigger in diameter than beer bottles below the bulge. You need to have a bench-type capper (with the bottle free-standing) in order to cap em. Someone talked about making a hop tea (instead of turning the hops loose in your wort). Could someone with experience describe the process of making hop tea--how to do, when to add, etc. Or does someone have a good method of dealing with loose hops, so they don't muck up the straining? TIA A big thanks to the wylie one for talking me into fresh hops. Just did my first batch, and MAN the difference! No more pellets, hopped extract, etc for this brewminor! Time to celebrate the ancient tradition of Beermas! Cheers to all! Ron D (dweller at gvsu.edu at Internet) "And what to my wondering eyes should appear... "But a jolly fat brewer, holding a Pilsner Urquell... Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 08:54:56 EST From: sims at pdesds1.scra.org (Jim Sims) Subject: re: mosaic beer page >>Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 14:26:35 +0000 (U) >>From: George Tempel <tempel at MONMOUTH-ETDL1.ARMY.MIL> >>Subject: mosaic site for hbd? >> >> mosaic site for hbd? >>I've been searching for a Mosaic (WWW, WAIS, gopher, etc) site >>specification for the homebrew digest and mead lover's digest. >> >>The reference I have is: >>but is broken. >> >>Is there another? >> This isnt exactly for the HBD, but it is a pointer to the "Beer PAge" - realted stuff ( i think it includes the HBD and archives, but the net is seideways for me right now so I cant check and make sure...) URL http://guraldi.itn.med.umich.edu/Beer enjoy, jim Return to table of contents
Date: 23 Dec 93 14:48:40 GMT From: sail!woodie at pc0278.attmail.com Subject: 5 Liter Kegs There has been a recent chorus in the HBD about 5 Liter Mini-Kegs so I'll take this opportunity to chime in ... I've been using the 5 Liter keg and Beer King CO2 tap for about 6 months now, or about 4 batches. Four of my kegs were purchased from a local Homebrewing Supply Store the other is a salvaged keg that had a commercial brew in it. So far I'm satisfied with their performance. They fit, snugly, on the top shelf of my refrigerator and I can enjoy a cool glass of Homebrew each night with my dinner. I don't use the CO2 until the natural pressure is to weak to dispense beer and then I only use enough to keep the brew flowing. Still, I usually go through 2 or 3 cartridges using them this way. The first half glass is all foam and yeast but after that all seems well. The kegs seem to transport well. During the summer months I started taking one to the lake for the sailing club to consume after the races. The kegs are just the right size to sit in a bucket of ice and provide brew for everyone. When used like this one CO2 cartridge is all that's needed. Longevity is my remaining concern. Some of my quart bottles are 25 years old, I don't think these kegs will make it that long. I haven't had leaking seams or bulging kegs (I always leave at least 1 to 1.5 inches of space at the top) but, they are showing signs of use. The kegs are plastic coated steel and mine are beginning to show some signs of rust on the outside where they have been bumped or scraped. - -- Woody Woodie Byram Township, New Jersey pc0278!sail!woodie at attmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 09:54:20 -0500 (EST) From: /R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/ at mr.rtpnc.epa.gov Subject: malt addition While reading the moast recent HBD, I raree thought came to me! When I do an all grain breew, I add the crystal malts and carapils in with the rest of the grain at the start of the mash. Since the other grains are enzyme rich, am I defeating the purpose of these malts when trying to achieve I high malt, full bodied beer? Should I add these at the mash out? Andy Kligerman p.s.- I can't believe all those things they say about Michael Jackson -- He's too busy sampling beers to entertain children %<)! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 09:21:55 -0500 [EST] From: greg.demkowicz at circellar.com Subject: RE:MASH\LAUTER TUN Mashing in a SS keg with a screen false bottom. If your doing this in a RIMS setup, it will work fairly well. However, if your applying direct heat to the bottom of the keg, as you mention, yes, you will scorch/burn your mash. The next logical step is to remove the false bottom and add the slotted tube. If you plan to use just a short piece of slotted tube, rest assured that it will promptly clog. Consider enclosing the tube with a simple lint filter ( used on washing machine drains), EasyMasher, Chore boy, or even the screen removed from a kithchen pasta strainer. All will work well if clamped over the slotted tube with a small hose clamp. Greg Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 09:30:59 -0600 (CST) From: John Mare <cjohnm at ccit.arizona.edu> Subject: RE: Cider flavour; priming Mark asks about the use of sugar for priming and the cidery flavour he is experiencing. In my opinion, the cidery edge to your beer is not the result of the priming sugar, but if you want to test this use light dry malt extract as I always do. For me, bottling 5 gallon batches, the following gives very consistent reults: For ales, 1.25 cups DME in 2 pints of water, boil for 15 minutes, cool in closed kettle, pour into sanitized bottling bucket (a 5 gal plastic bucket with spigot), siphon beer from carboy without aerating, stand for 15 mins while preparing bottles, bottle! For lager I use 1.33 cups DME to give a little more prime. For ales I find I have adequate prime in 7 days at 68!F, full prime by 14 days. For lagers at 50!F or lower, the prime takes much longer (2-3 weeks). John M. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 09:17:58 -0800 (PST) From: gummitch at teleport.com (Jeff Frane) Subject: A-B and Jim <shudder> Koch > From: Mark Stickler Internet Mail Name <mstickle at lvh.com> > Subject: Evaluating Beer w/ Jim Koch > > I recently received a new book from the AHA entitled Evaluating Beer. What > I read so far seems pretty informative but I noticed one the final chapters > was written by Jim Koch (the book is a collection of previously published > articles by various authors). His was a fairly short article which basically > says that hops and malt are THE most important factors in beer taste. The > word yeast is not mentioned even once in the entire article. He does mention > water but says that is not important because it can be treated to suit > whatever the brewers needs are. As an example he points out the Bud tastes > the same whether iuts made in Tampa, Newark or St.Louis. I suppose this > means AB could produce Pilsner Urquell or Bass Ale if they had the right > hops and Malt. Other than this chapter the book appears to be worth the > price. > I have been told by people who work for A-B that, in fact, their brewers *can* tell the difference between Budweisers from different sites, and can even tell *which* site the beer originated from. This is obviously a highly-specialized skill, which personally I can do without. But... Make no mistake, though, A-B is technically capable of producing extraordinary beer if they chose to. They may even have some brewers who would *love* to do so. But if you'll talk to any of these people they'll tell you who controls the beer: the marketing guys (gee! Jim Koch!). What's Koch doing telling anyone how to actually brew beer, anyway? And please, Jim, no more crap about your granddaddy's recipe. Unless, of course, Owades was grandma's milk man? - --Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 10:27:24 EST From: btalk at aol.com Subject: judgenet I sent a subscription request to judge-request@ synchro.com including the words subscribe and request. Will this do it? It has been a couple days and haven't heard anything yet. Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 12:28 CDT From: David P. Atkins <ATKINS at macc.wisc.edu> Subject: Water Hard/Soft Info. Hello readers, Whilst browsing a book in my library's reference collection, I found an item that may be of interest to homebrewers and beer hunters alike. To determine a city or town's water hardness, you can use the EDITOR & PUBLISHER MARKET GUIDE: An annual publication providing data on daily newspaper markets in the US and Canada. If you know of a town or city with a daily newspaper, this publication will provide the data. Why does a Market Guide care about water hardness? Lots of reasons....but I won't blather here. Instead, to the chase. Each market is highlighted with various types of data, including "Tap Water". This directory does not provide Ph readings but it does inform the reader if a town's water is hard, soft, medium, neutral, alkaline, acid, city, county, or fluoridated. For example: Madison, Wisconsin Tap Water: Alkaline, hard; fluoridated or Chico, California Tap Water: Alkaline, soft; not fluoridated While not the most informative source, it could be handy to curious brewers prospective movers, beer hunters, triv buffs, etc. The directory does not provide any explanation to the above descriptions, so it ain't science. Feel free to email with any reference request AFTER JAN. 4TH 1994. I will not be in my little library till then. Most academic and urban public libraries carry the title. Pleasant, Secular Greetings and Celebratory Thoughts, David Atkins atkins at macc.wisc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 14:52:14 CST From: "kim.paffenroth.1" <kim.paffenroth.1 at nd.edu> Subject: (simple)beer/wine suggestions Season's Greetings! I have been homebrewing for ca. 3 months. I would appreciate any (reasonably) simple suggestions for jazzing up brew kits. Also, I have very much enjoyed some fruit wines I have made, even though they should be aged more. Cranberry was exceptionally strong and sweet, with a slightly bitter but enjoyable aftertaste. Apple has been a tad weak, but the apple flavor is noticeable and pleasant. It's way too early to tell on the banana, parsley, or rhubarb. I'll be starting five gallons of mead in two weeks or so. Any other suggestions for fruit wines, or comments about these, would be greatly appreciated. (I'm trying to do these without a press, by the way.) Many Thanks!!! --- K. P. kim.paffenroth.1 at nd.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 13:07:05 MST From: birkelan at adtaz.sps.mot.com (Joel Birkeland) Subject: copper manifold/cleaning brass/mashing corn meal/grain source copper manifolds: John wrote (in HBD #1304): >The reason for not using a rolled up screen is the durability of it when I am >mixing the grain during mashing. I can't imagine how you could dislodge the rolled up SS screen, provided it is attached with a SS hose clamp. I have not had a problem in my admittedly very limited experience (6 mashes). The only reason I can imagine using slotted Cu pipe instead of SS screen is the limited availability of the latter. I bought my 1st easymasher from Jack, and then made two more myself. I was lucky enough to find a large piece of SS screen in a dumpster behind a machine shop. (I am not too proud to look into dumpsters.) Just for the record, I would like to say that I am really happy with my easymashers. I seriously doubt if I would have gone to all-grain if I had had to use a picnic cooler/Cu manifold or a Zapap approach. To me, the easymash approach is much simpler and cheaper. I have never had a slow sparge, and extractions are generally 30 pts/(lb/gal) or better. This is not intended to be a plug for Jack's business. I think you should make your own easymasher. Just stay away from my dumpster ;) cleaning brass: On a related note, I have come across a large number of brass fittings that may be useful in brewing, but I don't know what they were used in before. I was wondering how I could clean them up so that I could be sure no toxins were left adsorbed on them. I have thought about boiling them in some kind of acidic solution, perhaps vinegar. Does anyone have any ideas about this? mashing corn meal: I have seen flaked corn used as an adjunct. I would like to know if I could substitute corn meal. For that matter, could regular wheat flour be used as an adjunct? grain source: Does anyone know where I can get big sacks of quality 2-row malted barley mail order? Thanks, Joel Birkeland Motorola SPS Return to table of contents
Date: Thursday, 23 December 93 14:00:24 CST From: LLDSC at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Ad. Age Dec. 13 David Atkins talks about some of the new beers in an issue of Ad. Age. At my library, we justgot in the new issue of Beverage World's Periscope (Nov. 30)-we're a little behind. On the cover is an article about the Heileman brewing company and some of their new brews. { One of these is the Cool Colt, the mint flavored malt liquor. Anybody tried this? How would it taste with a pack of Kools? I'm waiting for the Schlitz Malt Liquor Draft myself. Scott LLDSC at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 15:26:41 -0600 (CST) From: "T.J. Ramsey" <tjram at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> Subject: Another Purple Dinosaur Since the subject of purple dinosaurs with tire tracks etc. has come up lately, I figured some of you may be interested in a recent (and subsequent forthcoming) mini-comic called "Smarmy the Sexually Repressed Dinosaur." The first issue came out recently, and the second should be out soon. There are as yet no GIFs available, but the creators have considered making GIFs of future Smarmys available, so if you are interested E-mail them at the address that follows (REQUESTS SENT TO ME WILL BE DELETED WITHOUT A THOUGHT) Send requests for Barney info to GLAA305 at utxsvs.cc.utexas.edu or okeefe at wixer.bga.com BTW, I can recommend the new Ko"lsch Wyeast very highly. At least my untrained palate found it quite pleasent. I made the first batch for someone else, but ive got my second batch of ko"lsch going and I can't wait to drink it. DISCLAIMER: I am only passing on info, I don't stand to benifit and so on and so on. Also I assume traffic will be light arount the holidays, otherwise I wouldn't even think of wasting bandwidth in this way. Thanks for your attention Prettig Kerst en een gelukkig nieuw jaar, T.J. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 13:59:31 -0700 (MST) From: Ken Sager <Ken.Sager at m.cc.utah.edu> Subject: Where did it go? Greetings from Zion (where homebrew is not only delicious but a misdemeanor too) I have one question for other brewers using Cornelius kegs. How do you refrain from draining your keg everytime you tap it? Last weekend I popped for a keg system and force carbonated 5 gal. of oatmeal stout. I decided to share it with some friends and we emptied it in what seemed like mere minutes. It was fantastic. WAS fantastic. It's gone. Homebrew seems to last much longer when you share it in 16 oz portions, rather than 5 gal. at a time! Oh well. Following this experience I feel obligated to caution prospective keggers. Beware! Kegging requires super-human restraint. I guess I'll bottle every other batch just to keep beer on hand for guests. Enjoy yourselves. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 17:05 EST From: MARTE at vms.cis.pitt.edu Subject: sign me up, please Please send me information on signing up on this list (or sign me up if this is all you need). Thanks, Dale Brubaker (via Marte Fallshore) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 17:05:38 EST From: yeebot at aol.com Subject: Hoegaardse Wit vs. Celis White, a survey. I had the most incredible (mis)fortune of drinking Hoegaarden on tap in Amsterdam last summer. I was transformed! Upon returning to the US, I learned from the barkeep that Hoegaarden was no longer available here and was turned on to Celis White, which I'm sure you all know, is brewed by Pierre Celis who revived Hoegaarden in the 60's. Well, I'm not quite sure what it is: maybe it's the Tap vs. the Bottle (Celis), the water (Hoegaarden vs. Austin) or maybe even the "double" Westmalle trippel I had before I tried the Hoegaardse. But even the fine new brew of Celis, IMHO is no substitute for the Hoegaardse Wit. Michael Jackson writes that Celis White is fruiter and more full- bodied that Hoegaardse Wit. My memory tends to disagree. But always reserving the Final judgement until I have both in front of me, I ask for help: Can I get Hoegaardse Wit and/or Celis White on tap anywhere in the NYC area? Anywhere in the US? (I hope to do some trekking this summer) Also, What's your opinion? Just rambling, (happy holidays!) Mike Yee Angst Brewing Co. "It's MY day in the barrel" Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 21:43:05 EST From: ivan at mutt.cs.jmu.edu (Ivan Shantz) Subject: stainless/copperbottom brewpots I have been listening in with great fascination for the last little while and have enjoyed it a lot. As a consumer of homebrew rather than a producer, I have had nothing to contribute. However the discussion of stainless brew pots has me intrigued. I think it began with a question as to the feasibility of installing a petcock or some such device in a copper bottomed one and proceeded to the question as to copper plating. As to copper plating I know nothing but am a bit curious as to why one would attempt such a thing. As I understand, the goal of the clad bottom is to add mass to the bottom of the pot and thereby reduce the probability of scalding. Copper and aluminum are used because they transfer heat so well and therefore the entire bottom of the pot is of a temperature rather than having hot spots again reducing the danger of scalding/scorching. It would seem to me that a lot of copper would have to be electroplated to achieve this effect and while it appears that homebrewers are exceptionally patient folks and figure things on a bit different equation than the general populace (praise be to the deity of the hops) I question the practicality of such a venture. As to installing spouts etc. The fellow who said that it makes no difference so long as you are not trying to go through the bimetal section could be right. However as a machinist and sometime welder I would proceed with caution. I suspect that it varies from pot to pot how the bimetal portion is adhered together. If it is electroplated then he is indeed correct. However there are a number of other ways to stick two metals together and it may have been done on the assumption that the temperature of the pot will not exceed 100c/212F (boiling point H2O). Having gotten into some dicey spots with various projects at the machine shop and also having separated the aluminum portion from the bottom of one of my wife's cooking pots by boiling dry I would be inclined to immerse as much of the pot, particularly the bimetal portion, in water as possible while I was welding it. The same holds for silver soldering. If you don't know how to do this without electrocuting yourself please find someone who does. (These folks are professionals, please do not attempt this on your own, if you're a little kid and can't read your folks can't sue us because we wrote this in little letters on your screen and they were negligent to let you up this late). Happy Brewing Ivan Shantz Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 11:32:35 MST From: npyle at n33.stortek.com Subject: HB shop loons/Spray Malt/Extract Tang/Keg Prices Alec Saunders writes: >(2) The proprietor of same store tells me to bottle as soon as the >gravity falls below 1.010. Says that if I let the beer ferment further >I'm "losing alcohol". This doesn't make sense to me. Can anyone explain? This is one in a long line of ridiculous drivel coming out of homebrew shops these days. Are the people opening these stores a bunch of marketing majors who heard that homebrewing was the latest rage or are they old-timers with the experience of brewing bathtub brew for 20 years? I've heard all kinds of silly advice in the past couple of years, reported to be coming from homebrew supply stores. This really gets my goat, as you can probably tell. They should at least bother reading some of the books and magazines they sell. The funny part about it is that they spout this dogma as if they really know what they're talking about (they should but they don't!). Well, I feel better now. BTW, all three of the people who run my local HB shop seem to quite knowledgable, which means they usually agree with me ;-). ** I was wondering the other day about this term "spray malt", which I believe refers to dry malt extract. I making some assumptions here, but bear with me. If it is made by spraying wort for the drying process, it seems that HSA would be a very big problem. Actually, any drying method used would have to take special precautions to avoid HSA. Has this been discussed here before? ** Virtually every extract brew I've made, including some partial mash brews, have a flavor that I would term "extract tang". It is a difficult taste to describe, but my friend used to call it "green tasting". He brews extract brews and claims it mellows with age, but I haven't noticed this (maybe my beer doesn't last long enough!). I've noticed this flavor from the very first brew I made (partial volume boil, no specialty grains, lots of HSA) to a very recent partial mash brew (full volume boil, mashed 2-row, specialty grains at mash-out, standard HSA precautions). Anyway, this is not a swipe against extract brewers because I've tasted extract brews which were undistinguishable from all-grain brews; its just that _my_ extract brews are quite different from _my_ all-grain brews. I typically use Munton & Fison canned malt syrup when I use it (rare these days) if that matters. Have others noticed this occurence, especially over a long period of time? Just curious. ** Recent HBD reports indicate that the used 1/2 barrel straight-sided sankey kegs from BCI cost $43.50. This is in error (I just received a price sheet). The actual cost is $61.50. The barrel shaped sankey's in that size are indeed $43.50. Is it worth it to pay more for the straight sides if you are going to use these things as tuns and tanks? Is it that much more trouble to install fitting on the barrel shaped kegs? FYI, sankey is the style of tap on the keg. BTW, I thought I might buy the sankey valve removal tool and possibly avoid having to cut a keg. They want $225 for it! Yikes! I'll find another way... ** Remember: Deck the Halls with Hops and Barley! Fa la la la la, la la la la... Norm Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1306, 12/24/93