HOMEBREW Digest #1310 Wed 29 December 1993

Digest #1309 Digest #1311

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  dishwashers (George Tempel)
  requestinfo%hpcmr at hplabs.hp.com ("LT Brian McKinnon")
  SS Screen (Jack Schmidling)
  sparge and extraction rate (Chuck Mryglot X6024)
  Maui brewpubs? (Domenick Venezia)
  re: Cherry handling (Dick Dunn)
  Re: Koch/etc (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Specialty Malts at Mashout / Smooth Operator (npyle)
  "Returnable" Bottles (Stephen P Klump)
  Corning Phone Number (J. Fingerle)
  In search of Microbreweries ("Freeman William ")
  full volume boils? (George Tempel)
  SS Keg to boiling pot QUESTION (Eugene Zimmerman)
  chiller efficiencies ad nauseum (John Edens)
  Finally back again! (smtplink!guym)
  terminal gravity (Jonathan G Knight)
  (Fwd) re: Question about bottles (Art Steinmetz)
  RE:Dishwasher Bottles (Timothy Sixberry)
  Diluting beer (Ari Jarmala)
  PH Meters and Water (Tom Clifton)
  Celis White Clone Recipe (Tony Storz)

Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1993 09:15:01 +0000 (U) From: George Tempel <tempel at MONMOUTH-ETDL1.ARMY.MIL> Subject: dishwashers dishwashers >Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1993 12:38:57 -0500 >From: y2046 at hrpi16.DNET.hcc.com >Subject: Dishwasher Bottles > > Hello, > I have been wondering if it would be acceptable to use my dishwasher >to setrilize my bottles. I have been bringing them into work, and using >the autoclave in the laboratory to do this. I know the dishwasher >is not nearly as good as the autoclave, but I need to know if it is >good enough. If anyone has any positive or negitive experiences about using >a dishwasher to sterilize their bottles please reply to: >Y2046 at hrpi16.dnet.hcc.com > > Thanks, > Bruce I have been using our dishwasher at home now for several batches. I usually set it for PotScrubber setting (double duty), and heated drying, with NO rinse agent. Rinse agents do leave stuff on the glass that will kill the head of your beer. Also, make sure the labels are off before loading into the dishwasher because they may clog the screen at the bottom. We had a label sneak past us and, although it came off the bottle just fine (no residue), it wrapped itself over the heating element in the dishwasher and started to smoulder. hope this helps george Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 09:24:54 -0600 From: "LT Brian McKinnon" <code266 at amd2.med.navy.mil> Subject: requestinfo%hpcmr at hplabs.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 09:46 CST From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: SS Screen >From: birkelan at adtaz.sps.mot.com (Joel Birkeland) >The only reason I can imagine using slotted Cu pipe instead of SS screen is the limited availability of the latter. I bought my 1st easymasher from Jack, and then made two more myself. I was lucky enough to find a large piece of SS screen in a dumpster behind a machine shop. (I am not too proud to look zinto dumpsters.) I wish I could credit the source of this idea but a universally available source of ss screen is almost as handy as a dumpster. Most kitchen strainers are made of stainless and contain more than enough mesh for several easymashers. js Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 10:33:51 EST From: cmryglot at disney.CV.COM (Chuck Mryglot X6024) Subject: sparge and extraction rate I have some questions about sparging and extraction rates on which I appreciate your wisdom. First, I mash in a picnic cooler with a manifold pipe arrangement on the bottom. I single or double step mash. I achieve a step mash by adding boiling water to increase temperature. I finally add all of the sparge water to the cooler (I guess that this is called batch sparging), stir and let everything settle. Finally, I open the drain plug and start filling the boiler (I usually recirc the first bit for clarity). This takes 15 - 20 mins. Now, - I usually get 20 - 25 pts/lb/gal. - Is there a relationship between sparge rate and extraction? - Is my process all screwed up? - Does any one else use a similar setup and get similar or better extraction? - Does any one get 30 - 35 pts/lb/gal? Thanks in advance. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1993 07:47:55 -0800 (PST) From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at ZGI.COM> Subject: Maui brewpubs? Unfortunately I am headed to Maui for 16 days soon, ;-), and remember from previous trips a paltry lack of microbrews and brewpubs. Have things changed in the last few years? I'd appreciate hearing of establishments with microbrews and brewpubs anywhere on the island. Also, there is a chance I'll end my stay on the Big Island (Hawaii) so the same info would be appreciated there. Lastly, if you are attending HICCS let me know and we'll get together. Aloha, hang loose, Domenick Venezia ZymoGenetics, Inc. venezia at zgi.com Return to table of contents
Date: 28 Dec 93 09:38:08 MST (Tue) From: rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn) Subject: re: Cherry handling chuck.wettergreen at aquila.com (Chuck Wettergreen) writes: > And Richard Childers replied: > RC> The idea of rinsing fruit in a bleach solution, no matter how weak, > > sounds unwise... ... > I think I'd use some Campden tablets, one or two per gallon of water > that the fruit is washed in. Soak one or two hours then rinse... Yes, bleach is a bad idea; a solution weak enough not to cause problems later (either killing the good yeast or creating an off-character) isn't going to be strong enough to do much good. The problem is that it's going to be hard to get rid of the bleach once you get it in with the fruit. Campden tablets will work, but one per gallon is plenty. > RC> ...And, of course, dropping tenderized fruit into a > > boiling liquid solution is regarded as suitable for any serious > > sanitation, or at least, a solution over 170 Fahrenheit. Yes, this is enough to kill wild yeast, and the acid in the fruit will keep the other critters that annoy us (the common bacteria) at bay. > I don't think I'd do that. I have done in the past, and most of the > cherry aroma and taste seemed to disappear into that hot wort, never to > be seen again. Hmmm...I've done it and I haven't had problems with losing the cherry character. It's hard to argue with experience on either side, I guess. I've just poured the hot wort over the cherries and immediately cooled the whole mess. I do chop the cherries a bit; I don't just use whole pitted cherries. Could that be why my heat treatment works and yours doesn't? I dunno... A good test of how well you're extracting fruit flavor into the beer seems to be that you see the fruit floating in the fermenter getting very pale. > If you have a food processor, the steel blade, lightly pulsed, will > macerate the fruit better than you could do with a meat tenderizing > hammer (without the splash too). "macerate" surely isn't what you mean...perhaps "chop"? ;-) My experience says you want it chopped fairly coarse--as you say, lightly pulsed, and only a few pulses per load through the food processor. Chopping too finely doesn't improve the extraction of fruit character, but it definitely exacerbates problems at racking...the more pulp you create, the more it clogs everything. --- Dick Dunn rcd at eklektix.com -or- raven!rcd Boulder, Colorado USA ...Simpler is better. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 12:15:08 EST From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu Subject: Re: Koch/etc Jim Busch writes: > If the big boys ever wake up, it could be tough for some of the > Koch's out there. I was thinking about this late last night as I was wondering the aisles of the supermarket (love those 24-hour stores!) I stopped in front of the beer display -- the standard imports, Frankenmuth (local, more or less), mostly BudMillCoors. Hmm... Michael O'Shea's Amber... Not bad, certainly more flavor than the standard American swill, produced by Genesee, one of the few surviving regional breweries. Also, the Miller's "reserve" line. Hmm... thinks I, if the big guys decide to go into the "micro" market, they've already got the distribution channels, and the capacity... Could do it pretty quickly... The bean-counters have to be convinced there's a market, that's all. Look at Coors. Winterfest is a reasonable Continental Dark (we scored it high 30s in a blind tasting, as I recall). They're supposedly coming out with a Stout real soon, now, too. Miller's got their Reserve line (not to mention "Leinies"). It's happening, and it's happening because of us (homebrewers)! =S Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 93 17:01:56 MST From: npyle at n33.stortek.com Subject: Specialty Malts at Mashout / Smooth Operator Andy Kligerman writes: >While reading the moast recent HBD, I raree thought came to me! When I do an all grain breew, I add the crystal malts and carapils in with the rest of the grain at the start of the mash. Since the other grains are enzyme rich, am I defeating the purpose of these malts when trying to achieve I high malt, full bodied beer? Should I add these at the mash out? You've hit one of the highly debatable areas of homebrewing. I put crystal malt in at mashout (I don't know about carapils, haven't used it). I do this because I figure I don't want the enzymes to do any work on the sugars in it, and because it has already undergone a mash within the husk. I also save off dark grains (choco and black) for mashout because I feel I get smoother flavors from them this way. Of course, as I said in an earlier post, my dark beers need some help, so I'm no authority on this one. I posted a few weeks ago on an article in Zymurgy (by Micah Millspaw and Bob Jones) I read on this subject. Well, the article was on beer stability, but it had some references to this. It was in the same issue as Dr. Fix's HSA article. Check it out. ** I've just now finished making a batch of brown ale based on my best pale ale recipe. I substituted 1 lb. of Belgian Special B 200L Crystal malt for the light crystal I usually use in the recipe. That Special B is special stuff, wonderful taste and aroma. I'll never use American chocolate malt again as long as I can buy the SB. It adds sweetness and maltiness that plain old choco malt can't touch. This beer really worked out well for hitting temperatures without adjusting anything, and I had no problems at all with my newly-built hop back. Whirlpooling helped keep the hops (pellets in the boil) from getting sucked out the drain. This was the smoothest (in terms of the procedure) all-grain beer I've made. I'll report later on how the beer comes out. Norm Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 12:47:53 EST From: Stephen P Klump <sklump at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Subject: "Returnable" Bottles Hello Fellow Homebrewers! Mark Perkins asked about bottles to be used with homebrewing: This subject causes undue stress and controversy with many homebrewers....with good reason. No one, I repeat, NO ONE wants to fill a bottle of their finest, only to have it crack or chip on capping, or explode due to thin walls of glass. Let me tell you of my experiences: Bar bottles are excellent for homebrewing They have thicker glass than the "no refill" types of bottles (Sam Adams etc) One drawback, is that the lables are tough to remove compared to the "no refill" variety. Grolsch bottles are easier to use (and bigger) with the rubber gasket for "capping" I have used "no refill" bottles with smooth lipped top with no problems. (knock on an oak keg for luck) They do have thinner walls of glass, but so far, no cracks, explosions, chips etc.... (there was one batch which exploded a returnable and a "no refill" due to overcarbonation- but since it was very overcarbonated, and a returnable blew as well, I am not going to give up on them...) No refill bottles used: Anchor, Sam Adams, FX Matt, Heinekin, Grolsch (12oz), etc. There are several types of "screw cap" bottles which I have recapped and have had no cracks, chips, leakage, etc.. Sierra Nevada bottles have a very thick rim..for your own refernce, compare one to a Pete's Wicked Ale bottle top. Pete's is noticeably thinner... Types of "screw cap" used: Sierra Nevada, Rolling Rock, Molson. I did not come across the use of screw cap bottles by accident, I used to go to Canada to buy a case or two of Molson Golden. These bottles were returnable, and screw-cap as well. After some tests with diet-Choke left over from a party, it was determined that recapped bottles would hold carbonation, and the use of these in homebrewing began.... I hate to sound like JS or JdeC when I say that I have had no problems with recapping returnable, no refill, or some screw-cap...maybe it is the spirit or St Gambrinus smiling on my efforts.. :) But with the exception of the two bottles from a very overcarbonated batch, I have had great luck. I hope my 2 cents helps. Cheers! Stephen Chemist for Hire | Decadence requires application! Will Recrystalize for Food! | -R J Green ****************************| The average dog is nicer than Klump.2 at osu.edu | the average person. -A Rooney Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 13:01:58 EST From: fingerle at NADC.NADC.NAVY.MIL (J. Fingerle) Subject: Corning Phone Number Some time in the last few months, someon e posted a 1-800 number for Corning/Revere Ware. If that was anyone reading this, could you please send me that number, and/or post it again to the digest? Thanks. Jimmy Return to table of contents
Date: 28 Dec 93 17:58:18 UT From: "Freeman William " Subject: In search of Microbreweries I live in New England and I'm looking into setting up some trips for friends to a few microbreweries in the North East. Please e-mail me any helpful information...names, locations, phone (if known), and beer rating on a scale of 1-10 of local micorbreweries. If anyone knows of a listing of microbreweries in the US, I would greatly appriate any information to help me find it. Thank You Bill Freeman Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1993 15:24:12 +0000 (U) From: George Tempel <tempel at MONMOUTH-ETDL1.ARMY.MIL> Subject: full volume boils? full volume boils? I have been making extract/grain batches, including one with a rather rough mini-mash, and am looking into moving to a full volume boil in preparation for all grain recipes. My question is this: how _does_ one get all that water boiling in a single lifetime? I haven't had much trouble getting 2 or 2.5 gals boiling on my stove (it's electric...old house w/no gas), and can keep a nice steady temperature too. I understand that one shouldn't use the cajun cooker things indoors for lack of oxygen, but I'd like to hear from the 'net experiences. thanks in advance george Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 14:39:27 -0700 From: ezimmerm at master.uwyo.edu (Eugene Zimmerman) Subject: SS Keg to boiling pot QUESTION Salutations! I had to unsubscribe to the HBD for the last semester as I took 18 credits and had to work 30 hrs a week. I also only managed one brew in the last few months. Well that's all done with and now I'm back (this has digest has gotten so large no missed me I'm sure). Anyway, I'm tring to catch up on back issues and am looking specifically for some help. I was lucky enough to come across an 8 gal. SS keg! I got the thing and now need some expert advice on how to convert it to a brew pot. I'm going to cut the top off and then put a valve twards the bottom on the side. This thing has a 3 inch bung hole in the side and I obviously want it plugged. I remember people talking about being careful not to use the wrong kind of welding what ever so as not to poison one's self with heavy metals. Where are the specifics on this? I can't seem to find anything now... Thanks for _any_ advice or pointers anyone might give me! Gene in Laramie Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1993 11:48:22 -0600 (CST) From: John Edens <johne at sa-htn.valmet.com> Subject: chiller efficiencies ad nauseum Perhaps because I live in wet, humid, Houston, I am missing the significance of the immersion chiller. counterflow chiller debate. I see a lot of equations and design theory being tossed around and my gut reaction is: So what? I probably use more water taking a shower than I do chilling my beer. And I only use water out of the cold water tap for the beer, which means there is no heating costs involved. If the purpose is to get a quicker chill, then I can understand that, but one should be able to acheive that by pushing water as quickly as possible through a coil that as much surface area as possible in contact with the hot wort. Or is this a case of overdesign for the sake of overdesign? <flame suit on> John Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 11:16:45 MDT From: exabyte!smtplink!guym at uunet.UU.NET Subject: Finally back again! Hello all, I got my first hot-off-the-presses HBD (#1305) in 10 months today (thanks Jeff Herring) and boy did I need the fix! I saw a number of familiar names and a lot of new ones as well. To keep this brewing related, I am finding a considerably better selection of micros and imported beers in Orlando that we had in Huntsville, AL. I travel quite a bit now too and have the opportunity to sample the local beer scene in a number of areas. Anyway, its great to be back (I just sent Rob a request to re-subscribe me) and here's to you all. Hoppy Holidays! Guy McConnell -- guym at exabyte.com -- Exabyte Corporation -- Orlando, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1993 16:05:33 -0500 (cdt) From: Jonathan G Knight <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU> Subject: terminal gravity I seem to have chronically high terminal gravities, usually around the low-to- mid teens. I am pondering in which order to address possible deficiencies in my process. Currently, I am an extract & specialty grain brewer (1 partial- mash to date) using Wyeast liquid cultures via starter solutions. 1) Yeast population/health. Possible courses of action include increasing the amount of pitchable yeast by either feeding them MORE malt, or using a two-step starter; being very careful about brewing when the yeast is really ready (RIGHT after the starter has fermented out?); trying "yeast nutrient" in the starter. 2) Aeration. Probably the easiest thing for me to try would be to make one of those "carburetors" that has been mentioned here by drilling little teeny holes in a piece of rigid plastic tubing to squirt into the carboy. 3) Water chemistry. I have no idea what is or is not in my water; can water chemistry affect the "endurance" of the yeast? A related issue might be raised wrt specialty grains. I'm used to getting starting gravities around 1040-1042 from six pounds of extract syrup. If I steep .75-1 lb. of crystal, patent, or whatever, and end up with an O.G. of 1048 (yes, this happened recently), then can I safely assume that the extra gravity points are "unfermentables" and will also show up in the final gravity (1016 or so instead of 1010)? The recent thread on extract potentials of grains got me wondering about this. The collective wisdom of the digest is eagerly anticipated. Jonathan Knight Grinnell, Iowa Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 18:23:41 EST From: asteinm at pipeline.com (Art Steinmetz) Subject: (Fwd) re: Question about bottles Mark Perkins writes: My question is about what bottles to use. The only definitive statement I've seen is to use "returnable" bottles. Since virtually all bottles in New York State (where I live) are returnable by law, I need a little help making the distinction. - ---- Use "refillable" bottles. These are thick-walled brown longnecks. Bud still makes 'em I believe. There is a 5 cent deposit on the bottles and a <$1.00 deposit on the heavy not-corrugated cardboard flip-top case. Go to a bar that sells Bud longnecks and ask to buy the empties. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 15:40:00 PST From: Timothy Sixberry <tsixber at msrapid.kla.com> Subject: RE:Dishwasher Bottles Hi Bruce, The use of a dishwasher to sterilize bottles probably depends on a few things. -How hot is your hot water heater set for? -Does your dishwasher have a heat dry system?(most do) -How dirty are the bottles? -How clean is it? I have used my dishwasher to sterilize bottles many times with no problems, and I'm pretty sure yours will work to. What I do with my bottles is to make sure they are rinsed well right after use, then let them drain and dry out compleetly. I prepare the dishwasher by running it through one rinse cycle with a little bleach or idopher to stearlize and get rid of any food particles. Also check the drain screen for food too. Then just put as many bottles in as you can. Mouth down of coarse. Put a little idopher (not bleach) in and let er go. Make sure the heater is on, I havn't tried it with just hot water. ps- I have kegs now, and let me just say. Its the only way to fly! Good luck man! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 22:03:00 +0200 From: ari.jarmala at mpoli.fi (Ari Jarmala) Subject: Diluting beer Subject: Addition of water at time of bottling Timothy R. Peters wrote about adding water to already fermented beer to dilute it and to increase the volume at the time of bottling. I have done this frequently with my all-grain batches. It's usual that I brew a 40 l batch of say 4,5 % alcohol by weight beer and bottle 72 bottles of it (=24 l). The remaining 16 l I dilute with 8 l of cold tap water (the water is excellent here) to make 24 l (=72 bottles) of 3,0 % abw beer. Of course, this diluted beer has less body, alcohol, maltiness, bitterness and hop aroma than the original brew. But it's supposed to be so, I want it that way. I haven't encountered any problems with this procedure so far and I've been doing it for more than 10 years now. However there are a couple of crucial topics: a) Be sure that the water you dilute the beer with is suitable. It must not be contaminated with nasty microbes and it's chemical composition should be good enough. It may be wise to boil the water for 30 minutes and cool it down before you add it to your beer. b) Carefully calculate the amount of priming sugar. -Ari J{rm{l{ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 23:43 EST From: Tom Clifton <0002419419 at mcimail.com> Subject: PH Meters and Water Tried to email a reply directly but got the following message: Your message 92931229014129/0002419419NA4EM of Tue Dec 28, 1993 8:41 pm EST could not be delivered to: TO: Steven Smith EMS: INTERNET MBX: SMITH_S at gc.maricopa.edu> as the receiving mail system rejected the delivery for the following reason: Unable to parse address - ------------------------ Forwarded Message 1 Date: Tue Dec 28, 1993 7:41 pm CST From: Tom Clifton / MCI ID: 241-9419 TO: Steven Smith EMS: INTERNET / MCI ID: 376-5414 MBX: SMITH_S at gc.maricopa.edu> Subject: Water question [HBD #1309] Message-Id: 92931229014129/0002419419NA4EM Since the tap water here in the Phoenix area is so "interesting" - PH about 8.0, very hard, Ca, Fe, Mg, Benzene, TCE ^^^^^^^ ^^^ ACK! Phoee! You can get rid of the PH problem by boiling your water with gypsum. I think this may also reduce the magnesium (Mg) some which can help with the bitterness in your Black beers. If you are doing all grain, the high PH is definantly a problem as it causes excessive exraction of tannins from the grain husks. Digital PH meters are reasonably inexpensive. Brewers Resource in Woodland Hills, CA (1-800-827-3983 for orders, 1-818-887-3282 for info) has one for $35 that isn't temperature compensated. My local supply shop (St. Louis Wine & Beermaking) has that one and also has one that is temp compensated for $80. You can reach Roy or Koelle Parris at 1-314-230-8277 next week as they are closed between Christmas and New Years day to be with family. - --------------------------------- End forwarded message Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 17:07:00 -0600 From: tony.storz at cld9.com (Tony Storz) Subject: Celis White Clone Recipe Date: 12-28-93 (17:47) To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com From: Tony.Storz at Cld9.com Subj: Celis White Clone Recipe Read: (N/A) Status: RECEIVER ONLY (Echo) Conf: InterNet_Mail (1) Read Type: GENERAL (+) Recently there was a request for a Celis White Clone recipe. Here is a recipe that I came up with and uploaded to Compuserve in early November. Thanks to Steve Daniel and Steve Moore from the Home Brew University BBS (713-923-6418) and my electronic friends on Compuserve who helped steer me in the right direction by giving me a starting point. Pugsley's Pseudo Celis White #5 malt: 4.5 lbs. 6 row (or 2 row) specialty: 4.0 lbs. Unmalted Wheat (Bulgar from Health Food Store) 4 grams dried orange peel 4 grams crushed corriander seeds 1 tsp. Alpha-Amalase enzyme lactic acid hops: 1 oz. Hallertauer yeast: 1 pack Wyeast #3056 Bavarian Wheat optional: 1 tsp. gypsum OG 1.041 FG 1.011 Bring 2 gallons water to boil. Add unmalted wheat and hold at 185-195 degrees for 20 minutes. Add cold water and 6 row malt to bring down to 130 degrees. Add 1 tsp. amalase and gypsum (pH 5.3). Allow protein rest for 25 minutes. Raise temperature to 150 degrees and hold 20 minutes. Complete conversion by raising temperature to 158 degrees and holding for 20 minutes. Mashout at 168 degrees for 5 minutes. Acidify sparge water to pH 5.7 with lactic acid. Sparge with 4-5 gallons of 170-180 degree water. Boil wort for 90 minutes. Add hops and crushed spices 15 minutes before end of boil. Cool wort and pitch yeast. While this will not fool everyone into thinking that this is the real Celis White, I was very happy with the outcome. The spices are "up front" without being overpowering. However, some people like a wallop from the spices and you will need to experiment with the spice amounts. After a couple months the spices have faded a bit, so next time I will double the spices and probably try Wyeast White beer yeast. This recipe should give you a good starting point with which to experiment. If anyone else has a recipe for a Celis White clone, or have any comments or questions on my recipe, please feel free to E-mail me or post. Tony Storz (Houston) <<<>>> Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1310, 12/29/93