HOMEBREW Digest #1316 Wed 05 January 1994

Digest #1315 Digest #1317


	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: Keg Prices (Jim Grady)
  "Christmas in Ireland" at 2 years (smtplink!guym)
  Sierra Nevada Nirvana (Summary) (mclagan)
  Miller Stout, Grant's Cider ("George R. Flentke")
  Counterflow chiller data point ("Dave Suurballe")
  Better False Bottoms (Louis K. Bonham)
  Braukunst Number (Dion Hollenbeck)
  big brewing (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Information ("Micah A. Singer")
  Water adjustments (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  French beer; Miller Stout (Allan Janus)
  Sam Smith's Oatmeal Stout (M.VITA)
  Using Flour/Grain Source (Jim Grady)
  low og, Easymasher (btalk)
  Belgian Ale Yeasts, Honey, UPS (jimsnow)
  Thermoelectric devices, spring balances (Dennis J. Templeton)
  15.5 Gallon Kegs, Aluminum or Stainless Steel? (Philip J Difalco)
  Re: Ovens Yet Again (Chip Hitchcock)
  Homebrew Tasting ("The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom.")
  homebrew mailing list (Bill Sutton)
  screwtops? (Tony) Abbott" <TABBOTT at UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
  Oxidation (George J Fix)
  Wine cooler substitute (smtplink!guym)
  Re: Sam Adams taste-alike (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist))
  Response to various questions in HBD 1310 & 1311 (Marc L. Goldfarb)
  Water Analysis (npyle)
  Samuel Smith ("Pete Brauer 312/915-6157"                 )
  HSA (korz)
  Using Lager Yeasts at Ale Temps (Tim P McNerney)
  Thermoelectric gizmos (Cree-ee-py Boy)
  heat sterilizing/foil caps (The Rider) (Michael Fetzer)
  slow ale fermentation (Ken Michael Johnson)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 3 Jan 94 16:40:49 EST From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com> Subject: Re: Keg Prices In HBD #1306, Norm Pyle says: > Recent HBD reports indicate that the used 1/2 barrel straight-sided > sankey kegs from BCI cost $43.50. This is in error (I just received a > price sheet). The actual cost is $61.50. The barrel shaped sankey's > in that size are indeed $43.50. Is it worth it to pay more for the > straight sides if you are going to use these things as tuns and tanks? > Is it that much more trouble to install fitting on the barrel shaped > kegs? FYI, sankey is the style of tap on the keg. BTW, I thought I > might buy the sankey valve removal tool and possibly avoid having to > cut a keg. They want $225 for it! Yikes! I'll find another way... I called BCI on 12/14 and got quite a different story over the phone. They said new Sankey kegs are $99.50 (or so). I asked about a used one and they said that they didn't have any, only the kind with the round sides and the bung hole on the side & they were $42.50. When I said I only wanted 1, he asked if I was going to use it as a brewkettle. I said yes and he said that they sell a "Brewkettle" which is the 15.5 gal, straight-sided keg with the top cut off. He said it is stainless steel and still has the handles & they sell a lot to homebrewers. The price is $42.50 (+ shipping, naturally). Well, that was a no brainer for me! I sent off a check and just got it the other day. (They don't take MC or Visa). It took 15 days to get from TN to MA (with Christmas in the middle). The keg seems to be quite reasonable. There were a few sharp parts where they sawed the top off - probably a lot fewer than I would have left and I didn't have the do the work! I could easily take the sharpness off with a hammer (ear protection recommended). Overall, I am quite satisfied. That address once again (thanks Dion!): > BCI can be contacted at > > Bev-Con International > 6400 HIghway 51 South > Post Office Box 396 > Brighton, TN. 38011 > (901)476-8000 > (800)284-9410 - -- Jim Grady |"Immediately after Orville Wright's historic 12 second grady at an.hp.com | flight, his luggage could not be located." | S. Harris Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 94 16:32:30 MDT From: exabyte!smtplink!guym at uunet.UU.NET Subject: "Christmas in Ireland" at 2 years I had the pleasure over Christmas to taste a 2-year-old Christmas Stout. It was brewed in September of 1991. The funny thing is that it was my beer but I had given some to my good friend Jeff Herring or it would never have lasted 2 years. We drank some of it last year and old Jeff even managed to save two bottles until this year. The recipe was called "Christmas in Ireland" and I posted it in HBD #727 on 9/19/91. It is also in "The Cat's Meow 2" on page 5-20. I used 4 ounces of grated ginger and a myriad of other spices and ginger was evident (but not unpleasant) on Christmas of '91. The bottles we drank this year were remarkably smooth and clean-tasting. There was a delightful spicyness along with the characteristic stout bite, but no overpowering single spice. Age has blended the flavors nicely. The batch I brewed for Christmas '93 is yet another stout with maple syrup and cinnamon this time. It is very nearly in the barleywine range with an OG of 1.087. It was thick and somewhat sweet, with the maple flavor coming through in the aftertaste, and I put a dozen pints of it aside for next year. I'm convinced that spiced beers, especially the heavy holiday variety that I brew, benefit greatly from a bit of aging as long as your sanitation is good and you use good, clean liquid yeast. I doubt another one of mine will make it to 2 years of age though since I now live in Orlando and Jeff still lives in Huntsville, AL! Guy McConnell -- guym at exabyte.com "And the beer I had for breakfast wasn't bad, so I had one for dessert." Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 1994 17:00:30 -0800 (PST) From: mclagan at sfu.ca Subject: Sierra Nevada Nirvana (Summary) Greetings Brewers: As promised, I've consolidated the recipes and ideas sent to me regarding the cloning of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. Sorry for the delay, I have recently experienced that most dreaded of computer ills: hard disk failure. After two days of painstaking and fretful work I managed to scrape most of my data from the drive, including the SNPA stuff just before the machine's last gasp. Hoo boy, that was close. I've learned a lesson. The file is about 39K in size. Just send me a note if you'd like a copy. Yours, Scott McLagan (mclagan at fraser.sfu.ca) Co-ordinator for Computers School District 43 (Coquitlam) B. C., Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 94 20:00:24 CST From: "George R. Flentke" <GRFLENTK at vms2.macc.wisc.edu> Subject: Miller Stout, Grant's Cider Well if we go for the rumer mill, I too have heard that Miller is producing a stout under the reserve label. I got this when I was visiting the folks in Rochester, and drinking at the Rochester BrewPub. They also said that the Feds had come down hard on the makers of Grant's Cider. They declared that cider is a wine, and Grant's did not have the right permits! I know that Grant's also got in trouble for putting some statement of nutritional value on their products. So much for the rumer mongers. Ciao, George R. Flentke School of Pharmacy University of Wisconsin-Madison GRFLENTK at macc.wisc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: 3 Jan 1994 19:08:31 -0800 From: "Dave Suurballe" <suurb at farallon.com> Subject: Counterflow chiller data point I brewed yesterday for the first time since the most recent outbreak of counterflow vs immersion controversy, and I thought I would add fuel to the fire by sharing yet another data point. I chilled 10 gallons (39 liters, actually) of 1040 wort from boiling down to 65 degrees in 16 minutes. The cooling water entered the apparatus at 55.5 degrees and exited at 101 degrees. I used 34 gallons of water. It's a counterflow chiller with 3/8 copper inside of 40 feet of garden hose. My intuition says that the product of the volume of chilled wort and its temperature change should equal the product of the volume of coolant and its temperature change, but that is not the case here. I don't know why. Suurballe Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 1994 21:48:06 From: lkbonham at beerlaw.win.net (Louis K. Bonham) Subject: Better False Bottoms On the advice of several fellow homebrewers, I recently modified my RIMS setup to replace the SS screen false bottom in the mash/lauter tun with one made from perforated stainless steel. *Major* improvement, IMHO. Practically indestructible, easily cleaned, and impossible to collapse in a 30 lb. (or for that matter, 300 lb.) mash. While I use a converted-keg RIMS (BrewMagic), there's no reason why a perforated stainless false bottom wouldn't work just as well in a cooler or ice chest mash tun. The friend (and fellow homebrewer) who fabricated this for me is a professional with access to industrial class equipment and supplies, and has indicated that he'd be interested in doing more of these if there's any significant interest. For my converted-keg mash tun, the sheet is a 15 3/8" round of 1/8" stainless with 3/32" perforations, cut in half and spot-welded to 15" of continuous 3/4" stainless steel hinge. It can thus be folded in half, slipped into the keg, and unfolded so that it's own weight holds it open. He says it is very easy to make them in just about any size or shape, particularly for coolers or ice chests which would not require the hinge. What sayeth you? Anyone interested? What sizes are you looking for (and what prices would be fair)? DISCLAIMER: I have no pecuniary interest in this matter; just passing on some info. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 94 20:07:52 PST From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: Braukunst Number Tried sending this to a HBDer in Canada, but it bounced. Please excuse this unless you are ag148 at freenet.carlton.ca. The information on how to contact Braukunst is as follows: Cliff Tanner Braukunst 55 Lakeview Drive Carlton, Mn. 55718-9220 (218)384-9844 Generally not home in the daytime since he has a day job. dion Dion Hollenbeck (619)455-5590x2814 Email: hollen at megatek.com Staff Software Engineer megatek!hollen at uunet.uu.net Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California ucsd!megatek!hollen Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 94 23:48:25 EST From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu Subject: big brewing A friend wanted to "check out" a bunch of yeasts from his yeast bank for flavor profile, etc. He decided to do a "yeastola" (modeled, sort of, on our club's annual "brewola", where everyone brews the same recipe). But how to distinguish yeast character from differences in brewing style? Make one big batch of wort, of course! So, last week, a half-dozen of us fired up a prototype 55-gallon brewery. Wow! Built of custom-fabricated 55 gallon drums, and "fired" with a steam boiler, this is one nice system. The recipe was (for 50 gallons): 55 lbs Hugh Baird pale malt 20 lbs Munich (Breiss(sp?), I think) 5 lbs 40L crystal 1 lb carapils 1 lb Kent Goldings (5.5%) No finishing hops, so yeast aromatics won't get hidden. Grains crushed in a motorized MaltMill(tm) at about 10 sec/lb. Extraction rate wasn't so hot, we ended up at 1.042, about 26pt-gal/lb (partly because the prototype has only two kettles, so we had to batch sparge, since the hot liquor tank is also the boiling kettle). We filled 10 5 gallon carboys with beer, and pitched a different (ale) yeast into each. One is happily bubbling in my basement. The next fun comes in a month or so when we get together to taste them all! Digression: If I could afford it, I'd convert my brewery to steam heat, you better believe it. It's clean, quiet, and powerful. You need some major fire-power to boil 50 gallons of wort, and this system had it. I think the boiler was designed to heat a house or something. With the steam valve, leading to the coil in the boiling kettle, about half open, we got a vigorous rolling boil. Full on, half the wort probably would have jumped out of the kettle. A twist of the valve to the off position immediately stopped the action. And we're not talking high pressure steam here, but only 3-5PSI. Ah, well, dreaming... In a few months, we're planning to do it again, but with a Wit beer recipe and 6-10 different "white" yeasts. =Spencer W. Thomas | Info Tech and Networking, B1911 CFOB, 0704 "Genome Informatician" | Univ of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109 Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu | 313-764-8065, FAX 313-764-4133 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 1994 23:57:07 -0500 From: "Micah A. Singer" <Micah.A.Singer at williams.edu> Subject: Information I am interested in finding out more about the bulletin board and sining up if possible. I am relatively new to homebrewing-4 months. Thank you, Micah Singer Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 94 23:58:14 EST From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu Subject: Water adjustments Ed Oriordan writes: > Gypsum is more soluable in cold water than hot (mix it with cold). Well, yes, but... (Pause to haul out the old "rubber bible")... Cold water: 0.241g/100ml = 46g/5gal = 1.6oz/5gal Hot water (100C): 0.222g/100ml = 42g/5gal = 1.5oz/5gal About a 10% difference. I wonder about the difference of "rate of solution" between hot and cold water. I'd expect it dissolve fater in hot water, if you're not near the limit of solubility. But I haven't done the experiment. =S Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 94 07:56:40 EST From: Allan Janus <NASARC07 at SIVM.SI.EDU> Subject: French beer; Miller Stout In response to Chris Estes' breaking news from the French brewing scene: Chris, do any of your French contacts bring in Pelforth Brune? I'd love to get a hold of some! Contact me if you know any hot DC sources. On the claim of the Gentleman from Miller's that Miller Stout holds up to Guinness "analytically" - sorry, my spectrometer doesn't drink beer... Allan Janus NASARC07 at SIVM.BITNET Return to table of contents
Date: 04 Jan 94 08:28:24 EST From: M.VITA at sysb.ftc.gov Subject: Sam Smith's Oatmeal Stout > Paul Hethmon recently asked if Sam Smith's Oatmeal Stout > worth its price of $17/ 6 pack. As to your question whether Sam Smith's Oatmeal Stout is worth $17/6 pack, my answer is no. Though it's an outstanding beer, I don't believe it's superior to domestic beers such as Grant's Imperial Stout or Sierra Nevada Stout, which are about half as expensive and usually much fresher. In my view, British beers are not worth the price, given the variety of fresher, cheaper, and equal or better quality American microbrews. This should not be taken as a prejudice against British beers - my wife is from Yorkshire, and we travel there annually, which gives me the chance to drink beers such as Sam Smith's Stout, Theakston's Old Peculier, Tetley Bitter, as well as many others, in their cask-conditioned version. Once you've had that stuff from a hand-pulled cask, the bottled imported versions are very disappointing. Mike Vita Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 94 8:28:59 EST From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com> Subject: Using Flour/Grain Source Joel Birkeland asks: > mashing corn meal: > > I have seen flaked corn used as an adjunct. I would like to know if I could > substitute corn meal. For that matter, could regular wheat flour be used > as an adjunct? Pierre Rajotte specifies using flour in the mash of two of the recipes in his book, "Belgian Ale." He comments: "Two recipes, Oud Bruin and Silk Lady, call for using flour. This is the easiest way to recreate recipes that use raw grains. Milling and obtaining wheat or oats can be problematic. For these recipes, try to obtain in both cases whole wheat or oat flour. You can usually obtain them in a health food store. The only problem you may have with them is that they may clump if you dump them directly in the mash. Instead, just sift them over the mash slowly and mix evenly. pg 111 I have not tried this myself - I just got the book this Christmas! > > grain source: > > Does anyone know where I can get big sacks of quality 2-row malted > barley mail order? I have bought grain from Tim Norris in Chicago. His prices (this fall at least) were $32.50/50# of DeWolf-Cosyns Pale Ale or Pilsner malt and $20.00/50# of Schreier U.S. 2-row malt. Even when shipping to Massachusetts was added, it was still a good deal. He sells in other quantities as well and carries the full line of DeWolf-Cosyns malts. His address & phone number are (thanks to Tony Babinec): HOMEBREW Digest #968 Mon 14 September 1992 - Tim Norris, Chicago, IL 312-545-4004--Tim runs a basement homebrew shop. He suggests that homebrew clubs get a collective order together, but is willing to ship small orders. Tim also has a fax number: 312-545-0770. Address: 3717 N. Kenneth, Chicago, IL. Usual disclaimers apply; just a satisfied customer. - -- Jim Grady |"Immediately after Orville Wright's historic 12 second grady at an.hp.com | flight, his luggage could not be located." | S. Harris Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 94 09:58:34 EST From: btalk at aol.com Subject: low og, Easymasher Re: low starting gravity. My first 2 or 3 batches came puzzlingly low, then I realized that 5 gal recipes were being made into 6.5 gal!!! I assumed my plastic pail/primary was 5 gal when filled near the top(it wasn't) and that my carboy was 5 gal (it was 6.5 gal when I finally read what was on the bottom). Sometimes it DOES help to pay attention ;-) My question - I've never seen one , so what is/how does an Easymasher work?? Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 94 10:15:20 EST From: jimsnow at aol.com Subject: Belgian Ale Yeasts, Honey, UPS I recently brewed my second batch of a Belgian Ale three days ago using an adapted version of Gouden Charlie that appears in the Belgian Ale classic beer style book and used a yeast culture from Chimay Capsule Rouge for fermentation. My first Belgian Ale I used Chimay yeast also and now am wondering what other Belgian Ale yeasts others have used and what successes/failures have you encountered? Thanks in advance. Michael Jorgenson asked the question about priming with honey. Although I have never tried it myself, I am considering using honey to prime my batch of mead that has been in the secondary for some months now. It makes more sense to me to prime mead with honey rather than corn sugar. Charlie Papazian mentions in his book that 1/2 c of honey can be substituted for 3/4 c corn sugar for priming. I would be interested in hearing from others also on this question. Tim Gray asks about shipping bottles via UPS. I have done so on a few occasions. I pack the bottles well with bubble pack in a sturdy box, send it 2nd day air and lie and tell them it is kitchen supplies. Maybe not a complete lie because homebrew is a necessary supply for the refrigerator in our kitchen. Happy Brewing, Jim Snow Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 94 10:18:52 -0500 From: djt2 at po.cwru.edu (Dennis J. Templeton) Subject: Thermoelectric devices, spring balances I provided the number for American Science Surplus the other day, and today I see someone asking for thermoelectric devices to cool a fridge. I believe he is referring to Peltier diodes, and in fact Am Sci Surp has them: #22627 (1.17" square) $25 and #89143 (1.56"square) $35 I cant testify that these are useful for making a fridge, and the catalog doesn't list power output in any form. Am Sci Surp: (Skokie-Chicago) (708)982-0870 or fax (800)934-0772 they also list an Ohous spring scale with a 9 oz capacity. #23282 Spring scale $3.75. It looks identical to mine, that I got for $10 I think from a HB supplier. have fun, dennis Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 94 10:24:40 -0500 From: Philip J Difalco <sxupjd at fnma.COM> Subject: 15.5 Gallon Kegs, Aluminum or Stainless Steel? I'd like to convert one of those standard 1/2 kegs to a boiling pot. Are the standard 15.5 gallon Firestone kegs Stainless Steel or Aluminum? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 94 10:44:19 EST From: cjh at diaspar.HQ.ileaf.com (Chip Hitchcock) Subject: Re: Ovens Yet Again Jeff Frane says: > Once they've been in the oven > and are kept closed by the foil, I'm mystified at how the bottles might > suddenly become *un* sanitized. Foil caps certainly aren't airtight (if they were the foil would blow open), and 350F is ~450K (~300K is room temperature), so when the bottles are cool (per gas laws) they will hold 50% more air than when they were in the oven. Yeast and yeastoids are \everywhere/ (that's why the Romance languages use same ("alma") or similar words for "yeast" and "ghost"), so you could easily suck in some airborne sugar-eaters. It doesn't look like this is happening (given your lack of infections) but it's certainly possible. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 11:08:39 GMT From: "The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom." <HAPANOWICZ at xray.alfred.edu> Subject: Homebrew Tasting I heard this info on the radio: Homebrew tasting, Uniondale Marriott, Friday Jan 14 7-10pm (516) 368-0406 Call the number for more info and directions. Rick Hapanowicz hapanowicz at xray.alfred.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 94 11:47:42 EST From: Bill Sutton <wrs at hpuerca.atl.hp.com> Subject: homebrew mailing list please add me (if manual): wrs at hpuerca.atl.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 94 11:35:58 EST From: "James (Tony) Abbott" <TABBOTT at UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> Subject: screwtops? I may well take the naive question of the week award with this one, but I've never heard an explanation to my satisfaction which addresses the topic. Why exactly isn't it possible to use screw top bottles (not beer bottle, I know they are troublesome), pop bottles, apple juice bottles etc. Do they for some reason fail to hold pressure? Screw top Cokes seem to have the capability. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing like the aesthetic of opening a flip-top or crown cap before enjoying a fine bitter or stout. However, It would be nice to be able to bottle up a gallon in a single container to carry along to small gatherings of interested friends. thanx, any replies welcome! >From the single eyed technology box of: James (Tony) Abbott <TABBOTT at UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> Department of Geography, Univ. of Georgia Athens, Ga. 30602 (706)542-2338 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 94 11:09:03 -0600 From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix) Subject: Oxidation There are several mechanisms that can lead to oxidized flavors in beer. IMHO the most important of these are the following: 1. HSA 2. Headspace air in bottles and kegs 3. O2 pickup during processing In each of these cases the finished beer tends to lose its rounded character, and take on harsh/astringent tones. The overall flavor sensations, however, can be quite different in each case. E.g., in HSA of unhopped wort it is grain constituents (melanoidans, phenols, et al) which are involved, and these (in their oxidized states) in turn oxidize alcohols in the fermented beer. This gives rise to various aldehydes which have an unmistakable grain astringent tones that Germans call herbstoffe. Cheesy/goaty tones are usually signs of oxidized hop constituents. This can occur by any of the three mechanisms cited above. It has been my experience that the most likely situation as far as hop constituents are concerned is for the attractive and mellow component of hop flavor (taste and smell) to simply disappear leaving a clinging hop bitter. It is my belief that the paper/cardboard flavors cited by Steve Smith in HBD#1315 arise exclusively from direct oxidation of alcohols from either headspace air or O2 pickup in fermented beer processing. The most relevant aldehyde is trans-2-nonenal, and it is quite different (structurally and in flavoring) from the aldehydes formed in the indirect oxidation associated with HSA. One question raised in Steve's post is to what extend oxidized constituents arise in malt extracts as they age. That Maillard reactions (browning) are taking place is clear from the color changes in malt syrups as they age. The implications of this for finished beer flavors are unknown to me. In lieu of a systematic study, possibly the best advice is to get the freshest extract available. I would like to see all malt products -- including grains -- dated so that we as brewers know exactly what we are dealing with. Dave Logsdon (Wyeast) got the ball rolling by dating his yeast packets, and it now common to have hop vintages listed on packages. Alas only malt products remain, yet freshness is just important for these as the other brewing materials. George Fix Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 94 09:53:26 MDT From: exabyte!smtplink!guym at uunet.UU.NET Subject: Wine cooler substitute On the subject of brewing wine coolers, here's a suggestion. Why not brew a light melomel instead? I brewed a blueberry one based on Barkshack Gingermead and primed it to make a sparkling beverage. When people tried it who had never tasted mead, I told them that it was a little like a wine cooler in that it was effervescent and somewhat fruity. The comment from *every* one of these people was "Comparing this to a wine cooler is an insult - it is far better than any wine cooler I've tasted." The nice thing about it was that it was very good within 3 - 6 months instead of the year or more cited for most "true" meads. It only uses 7 pounds of honey for 5 gallons which, I suspect, is the reason for the quicker maturity. I'd be glad to provide (or post) the recipe if there is any interest. Guy McConnell -- guym at exabyte.com -- "All I need is a pint a day..." Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 11:00:05 -0700 (MST) From: walter at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist)) Subject: Re: Sam Adams taste-alike Howdy! Now, we all know that the only way to make a Sam(tm) Adam(tm) taste-a-like is to use the finest malt and hops. I guess this means that you will need to take a trip to Germany to hand pick the finest hops. If not you are just out of luck. Just ask Jim(tm) Koch(tm). ;^> Good Day, Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 94 14:29:03 -0500 From: dd596 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Marc L. Goldfarb) Subject: Response to various questions in HBD 1310 & 1311 Hi everybody, and Happy New Year from the new kid on the block. I just finished reading my first few HBD's and thought I might respond to several questions. 1. Re: Bottles - I now keg my beer, but before that I found that 1 liter plastic soda bottles work real well. I don't recall having a problem with oxygen permeating them, but then my beer never seems to sit around very long. I started collecting plastic caps to replace the metal ones, which get bent out of shape. All of the plastice caps from various sizes and brands seem to be interchangeable. Champagne bottles also work well. The American ones take a crown cap and the European ones, which I just used for Christmas gifts, take a plastic stopper. 2. Re: Gene Zimmerman's question re: SS kegs and bung holes, it might be easier to get a 15 gal. Bud keg with the straight sides. It has built in handles and, as a bonus, since it comes from Bud, it will be uncontaminated by beer. I cut the top off mine by drilling pilot holes and then using a jig saw with a metal cutting blade. The stainless is thin and there was no problem cutting it. Make sure you get Lenox blades, and have several spares. They will break. 3. Re: Beer sphere from HBD #1310, I have the Mark Fritz ball and have only used it 3 times. The seal is not very good and needs to be replaced with something better. 4. Re: Steve Lichtenberg's question about DE filters: Zymurgy did an article on that a couple of issues ago. I will have to look for the specific one. It may have been the last Spring or Summer one. 5. Re: bottle labels - In our part of the country we get Rolling Rock beer. Their labels are silk screened on the bottle. Make sure you get the returnable long necks from a bar as opposed to the throw-aways from the beverage store. I guess this is getting pretty long. Sorry if I've violated some rule here but I'm new to this type of communication. I know I'll be told one way or the other. I'll save the rest of my comments for another day. Thanks for bearing with me. Marc G. - -- GREETINGS EARTHLINGS and HAPPY BREWING from: Marc Goldfarb, DIMARC BREWING CO. Cleveland, Ohio 216-631-3323 or on INTERNET dd596 at cleveland.freenet.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 94 12:39:28 MST From: npyle at n33.stortek.com Subject: Water Analysis I received my water analysis from the city and it contains the following tidbits of information (I say tidbits, because it isn't exactly all-inclusive). It also contains some useless information (to a brewer) such as conductivity, and langelier index. All units are ppm unless otherwise specified: Parameter Min. Avg. Max. (6 month) ------------------------ ----- ----- ----- Temperature (C) 7.1 16.9 24.0 pH (SU) 7.1 8.7 9.6 Fluoride 0.3 0.9 1.2 Alkalinity, Total 18.0 29.8 51.0 Hardness, Total 9.0 20.7 57.0 Hardness, Calcium 8.0 17.8 45.0 Dissolved Solids 22.0 68.0 128.0 Trihalomethanes, Total (ppb) 55.2 70.1 114.2 My initial comments: * The water's COLD this time of year! * Fluoride is about what Miller says to expect * Pretty soft water * It sure would be nice to know what those "dissolved solids" are! * I want to know about sodium, magnesium, potassium, and sulfates!!! * THM is not bad, I think? * Most of the parameters are quite variable. Use the averages and live with it. My advice to myself: The pH is meaningless. According to Miller, the high pH can be caused by chalk treatment at the water plant, which is supported by the fact that the untreated water has a lower pH and less alkalinity (not shown above). My pale beers are very good and my dark beers are not so good, so it is quite possible that the pH of my dark mashes drops too low (below 5). This is supported by the low carbonate levels (alkalinity), and low hardness levels (not much buffering capacity). Measure the pH of the darker mashes and adjust upward if necessary with calcium carbonate (chalk). This shouldn't be a problem since the calcium levels are generally quite low also. It probably wouldn't hurt my pale beers either, if the high calcium levels of Burton-on-Trent are any indication. Watch the IBUs if adding carbonates! Well, how'd I do? Any comments from you net.brewing.water.experts? I would appreciate any feedback on this. I've learned a lot by rereading Papazian and Miller on this subject, but it'll be another week or so before I'm an expert. ;^) All seriousness aside, it is pretty amazing what you can learn when you concentrate on one aspect of brewing for a few days at a time. The gains are far greater than when bombarded with it all at once, like when you first start brewing. Three years at this hobby and I'm starting to feel like I know something. Of course, the more I learn, the more I realize how little I know! Does the Siebel Institute offer mail order courses???? Cheers, Norm Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 94 14:27 CST From: "Pete Brauer 312/915-6157" <$W$PR42%LUCCPUA.BITNET at UICVM.UIC.EDU> Subject: Samuel Smith In response to whether 17.00 is a fair price, I think that it is iff your area has a high liquor tax. $12.00 to $15.00 is normal to a little high so if there are additional taxes or excise then you are in the ballpark for Samuel Smith Stout. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 94 13:59 CST From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: HSA Steven writes: > Got more questions: how hot does wort have to be for HSA to occur? I I've read in several places to cool till the wort is below 80F before aerating, so this is what I do. When I started doing this (perhaps 5 years ago), my beers suddenly lost that "wet cardboard/sherry-like" aroma/flavor. >noticed (nay, gagged on) the aroma of wet cardboard in a glass of an >all-extract beer. Could that scent be due to anything else? I've never had >that problem before. It was also my only grainless batch _and_ used >unfamiliar extracts. I don't recall doing anything that would have aerated >the hot wort. It could have been the extract itself. Old, poorly stored extract syrups can oxidize right in the can/bag. This may have been your problem. > Next: how do _you_ rehydrate dry malt extract? I'm getting very fond I just dump it in just before the boil temp is reached. ******* Chris writes: >Is it important to boil the hops with the malt? No. >On the back of a label from a can of extract malt I read a >procedure in which it was suggested to boil the bittering hops in >water and add the extract after the boil was finished. This >seems to make some sense. The "extract twang" is due in part to >caramelization of the malt sugars. Since caramelization is a >function the time of boiling the malt, it seems wise to limit >the time the malt is boiled. Boiling the hops in just water >also makes sense from a hop utilization standpoint, since the >percent utilization will be greater for a low gravity boil >(water). Would following such a procedure improve the taste of >extract brews? Any comments? I think you may be right about the better hop utilization, but then again, it's not wise to boil the malt for less than, oh, say 30 minutes (this time is just speculation on my part -- nothing that I've read anywhere specifies it). Two additional purposes of boiling are to coagulate proteins and to drive off DMS. Some of this has occurred during the production of the extract and thus the boil time for an extract wort can probebly be half of that recommended for all-grain worts. Personally, I feel that most of the extract "tang" or "twang" is from poorly made, old or mishandled extracts or from the addition of excessive amounts of dextrose, fructose and sucrose either by the extract manufacturer or by the brewer. I recommend you find extracts you can trust and stick with them. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 94 15:53:39 PST From: tpm at wdl.loral.com (Tim P McNerney) Subject: Using Lager Yeasts at Ale Temps I understand why the opposite might pose problems (yeast going dormant, slow fermentation), but are there any reasons not to use lager yeasts at high temps (other than the fact that the finished beer wouldn't taste like a lager)? I know that this is the method used for Steam(TM) beers, but was curious as to why it isn't more generally used. - --Tim Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 19:08:33 -0600 (CST) From: Cree-ee-py Boy <BIRMINGH at FNALV.FNAL.GOV> Subject: Thermoelectric gizmos Bob Dougherty asks: >Has anyone tried playing with thermoelectric modules? (They're chips which act >as heat pumps when a current is passed through them. A few cooler makers have >used them in electric coolers.) I've been looking for a small used fridge for >my brew closet (space is tight!) and can't find one. I'm considering building >an insulated box and refridgerating it myself. The solid-state system >appeals to me cause I don't want to mess with hoses, coils, compressors, etc. >and I just plain like neat, new gadgets. You are talking about a Peltier junction. American Science and Surplus sells a small (1.17" sq) for $25.00 and a large (1.56" sq) for $35.00. The small is item number 22627, the large is 89143. ASS's number is (708) 982-0870, and they take Visa/Master Card. Have fun, and tell me how it works, please. Phillip Birmingham Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 17:53:34 -0800 From: mfetzer at UCSD.EDU (The Rider) (Michael Fetzer) Subject: heat sterilizing/foil caps In HBD 1315 Jeff Frane writes: >Alan Carlson, from Sweden, mentions also using little foil caps on his >bottles (someone else wanted to know why) to keep the bottles sanitized >once they've come out of the oven. Yup. And to answer Alan's question, >yup again: they stay nicely sanitized for quite a while after the fact. >I regularly use them days -- or even a week or more -- after they come >out of the oven; that's the whole point. Once they've been in the oven >and are kept closed by the foil, I'm mystified at how the bottles might >suddenly become *un* sanitized. This doesn't mean I've ever had the >nerve to use the bottles a couple of months later -- why take chances >with fate? I just wanted to point out that covering flasks and carboys with alu foil before autoclaving is standard operating procedure in chemistry microbiology labs. As a matter of fact, they autoclave their culture media this way to sterilize it. The sterilized foil capped flasks are stored for days, and even the so sterilized culture media is kept around for quite a bit. Sure, they don't end up drinking the stuff, but they do worry about contamination. An interesting side note: a friend at UCSD uses (used?) the autoclave to actually brew beer. That's right... toss the extract and water in carboy, add hops, autoclave for an hour, cool, pitch, and brew right in the labs cold storage room. They even drank most of it there. ;) Beer never left the lab, so to speak, until the very end. Mike - -- Michael Fetzer pgp 2.2 key available on request Internet: mfetzer at ucsd.edu uucp: ...!ucsd!mfetzer Bitnet: FETZERM at SDSC HEPnet/SPAN: SDSC::FETZERM or 27.1::FETZERM Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 1994 18:40:53 -0800 From: Ken Michael Johnson <kmj at leland.Stanford.EDU> Subject: slow ale fermentation Has anyone had a really slow fermentation with ales? I made a batch with: 10 lb pale malt 3 oz Styrian Goldings flower for 90 min 1 oz " for 1 min 1 oz " dry hopped Sierra Nevada yeast After about four days the initial fermentation started to die down a little, and I added the extra hops. Fermentation continued for three more weeks. The temperature in my house was probably around 50 F. A bit cold, but what do you expect from an Eichler? I had assumed that the long fermentation was due to infection. But last night I tasted it, and nothing was wrong. It was the best flat, warm beer I've had. So was the fermentation time caused by cold temperatures, lazy yeast, or the beer gods? kj Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1316, 01/05/94

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