HOMEBREW Digest #1342 Fri 04 February 1994

Digest #1341 Digest #1343

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Cannibis and Hops (GNT_TOX_)
  german malt (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
  Inexpensive pH meter (Paul Ferrara)
  recipes (Shirley)
  New Mexico Brewing FAQ (Michael L. Hall)
  Re: Baron DeKalb/Red Tail Yeast (Jack Skeels)
  Sugar and Cooper's Extract (Mark Caldwell Bellman)
  Cat's Meow (Greg Bishop)
  re- grav measurements from (George Tempel)
  RE: Laaglander DME (Rick Magnan)
  Reasons for Boiling (npyle)
  Malt color ratings ("Manning Martin MP")
  maple syrup, old hops ("PETE ZINGELMAN,")
  Altbier recipe advice (Robert Jordan)
  hop bread ("Jennifer Crum")
  Wort and Oxygen ("Palmer.John")
  Yeast Preservation (rprice)
  belgian malt ideas (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570)
  Re: Mashing Wits (Jim Busch)
  Hops roots ("Peter Miller {84663}")
  Organic Malting Barley (2nd Attempt) (Al Marshall)
  Oak Casks. Discussion of Worth! (COYOTE)
  pH meter for < $60 (Gary S. Kuyat)
  ales to lagers (Bryan L. Gros)
  complete joy (RONALD DWELLE)
  Re: All-Grain Strong Ale (COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L)
  Dry-Hopping Advice (Jeff Frane)
  RE:brewing in oak casks NOT! ("J. Hunter Heinlen")
  The Spent Grain Baking Company (Domenick Venezia)
  stuck firmentation (Zach Fresco)
  cancel article 02031015.17655 (Gary S. Kuyat)
  Temp Correcting pH meter for < $60 (Gary S. Kuyat)
  Looking for Brew Schools (MAXWELLS)
  Request for Alaska (Chinook) beer recipe ("Merchant, Thomas E")
  Underpriming (Paul_Biron_at_AOS200)
  Calorie Chart ("Edward F. Loewenstein")
  Re: Cannabis (Richard Stueven)
  hop removal/stout boil (Carl Howes)
  Re:b bright (TODD CARLSON)
  Lambic Digest on Net (yeebot)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 15:39 EST From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU> Subject: Cannibis and Hops In HBD#1340 Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu writes that cannibis and hops are about as closely related as monkeys and humans. Monkeys and chimps are 99% genetically identical. We're so damn close, I'm surprised they're not in suits along side us. Probably run most companies better than the bozos that do now. Anyway, similarities can be deceiving. I'm sure hops and hemp are not nearly as closely related, but cannibis might just do something to beer flavor and aroma-wise. You never know until you try. That's the beauty of homebrewing, trying anything you want. Andrew Pastuszak Philadelphia, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 15:38:33 EST From: Lee=A.=Menegoni at nectech.com Subject: german malt My local HB shop has some German Vienna malt from a company pronounced "Durst" sp? . Has any one heard of them? is the stuff any good? how does it compare to Ireks? Lee Menegoni lmenegoni at nectech.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 1994 16:23:05 From: prf at cherry-semi.com (Paul Ferrara) Subject: Inexpensive pH meter Steved wrote that he was interested in the Checker pH meter advertised in Zymurgy, and Dion replied with much good general pH meter info. While scanning a trade journal the following ad caught my eye: Newport Electronics 1-(800)639-7678 Pocket pH Tester w/ Replaceable Electrode Model HHpH1 Measures 0-14pH, 0-70degC (32-158degF) Automatic Temperature Compensation +/-0.1pH and +/-1deg accuracy 2 point calibration for temp and pH Price: $59.50 ($69.50 with 3 calibration buffers) extra electrodes are $19.00 each If you have a fax, you can get a spec sheet by calling 1-800-NEWINFO, request document # 125 Looks like a great price for a temp compensated meter. Hope this info is useful to some of you. Disclaimers: I have never used or even seen this meter. I have no ties (financial or otherwise) to Newport Electronics. I have never even ordered anything from them. Just relaying what I saw in an interesting ad. Paul ( prf at cherry-semi.com ) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 94 15:17:14 MST From: Shirley <DUSTHOMP at idbsu.idbsu.edu> Subject: recipes Would someone send me a copy of the recipes from SNPA and from the St Louis competion. I have been unsuccessful at reaching the people who posted notes concern the recipes. Thanks - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Here's to it and to it again, if you don't do it, when you get to it, you may never get to it to do it again... -----------------------+-----------------------+------------------------- Shirley Mae Thompson | 1910 University Drive | Cren: DUSTHOMP at IDBSU User Service Center | Boise, Idaho 83725 | Internet: Boise State University | (208) 385-4357 | dusthomp at idbsu.idbsu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 17:41:45 MST From: mlh at cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov (Michael L. Hall) Subject: New Mexico Brewing FAQ Greetings, Fellow Beer Drinkers and/or Brewers! I maintain an FAQ about Beer and New Mexico, which I have sent to many of you in the past. I have made significant updates to the FAQ, and would like to know if you would like a copy of the updated FAQ. For those that don't know, an FAQ is a Frequently Asked Questions list. Basically, it contains everything that I know about beer and brewing in New Mexico. It lists all the brewpubs, clubs, homebrew shops, etc. that I have heard of in New Mexico. I will mail it to anyone who requests it; just send me email and I'll get it to you in a couple of days (I'll wait and make one mass mailing). There are two versions of it: one that has all the recent changes marked in the margin (useful to those that have seen an old copy and just want to know what's different), and one which has no changes marked (easier to read and not as cluttered). Let me know which one you would like. Cheers, Salud, Prost, Slainte, To your health, and Down the hatch... Mike Hall hall at lanl.gov or mlh at cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 13:54 EST From: Jack Skeels <0004310587 at mcimail.com> Subject: Re: Baron DeKalb/Red Tail Yeast In HBD #1335, Robert Reed questions Sam Adams' patriotism regarding his brewing a German Bock. At the risk of sticking my historically-ignorant foot in my mouth I ask: Weren't the Germans (at that time part of greater Prussia) friends of the American Revolution? Or at worst they were hired guns from Europe. I would extend myself further by guessing that thinking the Germans are hip or that they brew great beer fell out of vogue as a result of the World Wars in THIS century (a la The Guns of Navarone, etc.) I only bring this up because I come from a city named after one of these 18th century guys that helped out George and his pals, Baron *something* von DeKalb. ;-) Also, I've enjoyed all of the knowledgeable info on yeasts and cultivation, especially regarding SNPA (which I've made my first cultures from!!). I was wondering, does anybody know if the chunky dregs from Red Tail Ale are viable and/or clean like SNPA? My guess is that they are not. Also (again) why are they so solid? Do they use a fining agent or a coagulant of some sort?? TIA, and good brews to all, Jack Skeels JSKEELS at MCIMAIL.COM Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 02:39:18 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Caldwell Bellman <mb4u+ at andrew.cmu.edu> Subject: Sugar and Cooper's Extract Can someone please help me. I have recently purchased a can of Cooper's Real Ale extract. The instructions say to add 2kg of white sugar to the fermenter along with water and the extract. First question, is this table sugar or corn sugar? Next question, why do the instructions with the can not say to boil the wort? Every can I have tried plus every recipe I have ever seen always mention boiling the wort for several hours. Should I be following the recipe with the can? Why does it want me to add sugar? Isn't there enough malt in the can for the yeast? If possible, please email responses to mb4u at andrew.cmu.edu Thanks, mark Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 00:33:17 +0000 From: bishop at magic.geol.ucsb.edu (Greg Bishop) Subject: Cat's Meow I recently downloaded the Cat's Meow (beer recipes) from sierra at stanford.edu. These files are in Post Script format. I've never dealt with Post Script files and would appreciate any advice on how to print them. I am using a Macintosh computer. Thanks in advance, Greg Bishop Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 1994 08:48:49 +0000 (U) From: George Tempel <tempel at MONMOUTH-ETDL1.ARMY.MIL> Subject: re- grav measurements from re: grav measurements from carboys Just to add to the discussion: Instead of buying a wine thief I purchased for < $3.00 a _Glass_ baster. Very easy to sanitize w/b-brite. I use my plastic tube for the hydrometer as a flask, fill it < 1/2 way with a b-brite solution, and squeeze the baster and insert it into the tube to displace the sanitizing solution up the plastic cylinder walls and around the outside of the baster, then release the baster bulb while withdrawing, allowing the solution _inside_ the glass baster. Repeat a several times and you've got a clean baster _and_ plastic flask. I rinse and remove the glass, then dump the solution inside the bulb, swirl some, then rinse everything. Next, clean the carboy top and pop off the airlock and stopper, squeeze and insert the baster, then release the bulb and withdraw a full baster! Deposit into the plastic flask and repeat if necessary. I find 2 1/2 basters are enough to get a measurement. Works well for me, and takes only a few minutes. The idea of tipping a full carboy _just_ enough to get a measurement scares the yeasties outta me! If I spilled just once....shudder! l8r... ty (george tempel, home = netromancr at aol.com) "kiss cats: the dachshund and the deer are one"--wallace stevens Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 10:31:39 EST From: magnan at server1.dfci.harvard.edu (Rick Magnan) Subject: RE: Laaglander DME In #1340, wes(WKODAMA at aba.com) responding to a question about Laaglander DME wrote: > I had a three batch in a row problem with stuck ferments. I was > only getting down to around 1.020 to 1.030, where I usually end > at around 1.009 to 1.013. The only thing all three batches had > in common were the use of Laaglander light DME (I usually use > Munton & Fison). This can hardly be classified as conclusive > evidence, however; it's more of an anecdotal "data point."... Several months ago, I asked whether 60f was too cold to ferment with the Wyeast 1056 because a batch went rather slowly. My next 2 batches were fermented with the same yeast (I usually grow the yeast and split it 3 ways) at the same temps, or colder, and they fermented quickly and vigorously. The difference? The slow batch was brewed with DME that said "Product of Holland" but no where was any mention of Laaglander. In the other batches Munton & Fison DME was used. This too, is just an "anecdotal data point" - maybe I didn't provide enough O2 for the first batch (for example). On the other hand, that "product of Holland" DME didn't even taste sweet. Which raises the question - what the heck is in that stuff??? Both brands of DME were packed by Crosby and Baker, perhaps I should bother them about product content labeling? (I bet you grain brewers love this kinda talk :) rick Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 8:41:46 MST From: npyle at n33.stortek.com Subject: Reasons for Boiling Al writes: >Carl also writes: >>Mash pale malt and flaked barley at 156-160F for 1.5 hours. Steep crystal >>and roasted barley for 45 minutes after raising to 160F. Sparge. Raise >>to 180F and add extract. Raise to boiling and add hops. Boil for 90 >>minutes to drive off hop aromatics. Strain into carboy and top off with > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >Well, that might indeed happen, but it certainly is not *why* you boil. The >most important reasons for boiling are sanitation and protein coagulation. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The most important reason for me is hop utilization, i.e. alpha acid isomerization, but then I'm a hop head. I've recently joined HHA (Hop Heads Anonymous), as I now realize I can't do this on my own. Maybe someday I'll be able to sit down and drink a sweet dopplebock, or a Belgian trappist-style ale without saying "Needs more hops!". Until then, its IBUs for me! >If one could find a way to retain the hop aromatics during the boil (while >still losing the DMS and other unwanteds), I think they would be held in >very high esteem by this digest's members. Oh yes! High esteem indeed! I suppose you could collect the steam, condense it, and reintroduce it to the wort (EasyAromaSaver?), but you'd defeat one of the main purposes for boiling all-grain - to boil down volume and concentrate the wort. Well lets see, you could then distill the aroma out of this captured liquid, and then... (I'm not sure this is possible in MY garage). Norm Return to table of contents
Date: 3 Feb 1994 10:38:38 U From: "Manning Martin MP" <manning#m#_martin_p at mcst.ae.ge.com> Subject: Malt color ratings ASBC methods of color assessment put malts and adjuncts into three classes: black, high-dried & caramel, and pale. Black malts (including chocolate and roasted barley) are assessed at about 1% (actually done by weight) of the one-pound-in-one-gallon at which they are quoted. Hence, they are measured at about 5 deg L, and adjusted up to one pound per gallon (about 500 deg L). Pale malts are assessed using a mash of about one pound per gallon (actually done by weight), and are therefore measured at about 2 to 4 deg L. The gray (amber?) area is in the high-dried and caramel malts, which are mashed with pale malt (of known color). The mixture is assessed for color, and the color of the pale malt is then subtracted out. The procedure allows the wort to be diluted for convenience, at the discretion of the analyst, and then adjusted (linearly) back to the lab wort concentration. If a wort is darker than about 10 deg L, the development of color with concentration begins to exhibit non-linear behavior; i.e. a lower increase in measured color for a given increment in concentration (see Brewing Techniques, 2 (1), (Jan.-Feb. 1994)). Therefore, if the wort color is measured beyond the linear portion of the color development curve (above 10 deg), the color rating will be reduced.The procedure should have been written such that the wort color is always measured say, between 5 and 10 deg to avoid this problem (IMHO). MPM Return to table of contents
Date: 03 Feb 1994 07:32:07 PST From: "PETE ZINGELMAN," <ZINGELMA at EPRI.EPRI.COM> Subject: maple syrup, old hops From: PETE ZINGELMAN, Wisconsin Electric Power Co. Subject: maple syrup, old hops Hi all! I'm planning to try a partial mash recipe for a maple syrup stout. Has anyone tried this before? The recipe calls for 12oz of maple syrup, most of it in the boil,and what's left is added in the last 10 min of the boil. I remember reading somewhere (Miller?) that the quantity should be closer to one gallon! Also, I have some left over whole hops from a batch my buddy gave me, (he grew his own) They have been in ziploc baggies for about 3 months, but have not been refrigerated. How do I tell if they're still good? Thanks in advance!! (Insert clever quote here) Pete Zingelman Point Beach Nuclear Plant zingelma at eprinet.epri.com (414)755-6526 fax-6562 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 10:01:35 -0600 (CST) From: Robert Jordan <JORDAN at ANLBEM.BIM.ANL.GOV> Subject: Altbier recipe advice I'm planning on starting an Altbier in the next week or so and was looking for a little input from the experts. Here's the receipe I was thinking of: 6 lbs. Marie's Munich extract (50% American 2-row, 30% Belgian Munich, 20% American Munich) 1 lb. Crystal malt Perle hops, 35-40 IBU Yeast labs Dusseldorf Ale yeast (A06) How does this sound? I'm shooting for an OG of 1.044 to 1.048. I'm pretty sure this will hit that, but maybe I need to add a little more malt? The extract is pretty dark (darker than amber syrup but not black) so I don't think I need any black malt, but does anyone have any suggestions or ideas from past experience? Thanks- Rob RJordan at anl.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 08:19:15 PST From: "Jennifer Crum" <crumj at BCC.ORST.EDU> Subject: hop bread Hello to everyone out there in fermentation land. Along the train of beer bread that was posted recently, I was wondering if anyone had ever heard of, or tried to make, hop bread? A friend of mine is going to try to make it and I thought I'd ask for advice from those who are more knowledgeable than I... Thanks for any help and you can post me directly. Jennifer Crum crumj at bcc.orst.edu Return to table of contents
Date: 3 Feb 1994 08:17:21 U From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com> Subject: Wort and Oxygen Howdy Group, In response to Russell Kofoed's question about re-oxygenating a stuck fermentation, I thought I would post this excerpt from my First Time Brewer's Instructions, Rev C. Email me for a copy, but please don't put BEER in the Header. The Wort and Oxygen - ------------------- The use of oxygen in brewing is a two-edged sword. The yeast need oxygen to grow and reproduce enough to provide a good fermentation. When the yeast has first been pitched, whether to the starter or the beer, it needs oxygen to reproduce. The yeast makes use of the dissolved oxygen in the wort. Boiling the wort drives out the dissolved oxygen, which is why aeration of some sort is needed prior to fermentation. The yeast first use up all of the oxygen in the wort for reproduction, then get down to the business of turning sugar into alchohol and CO2 as well as processing the other flavor compounds. However, if oxygen is introduced while the wort is still hot, the oxygen will oxidize the wort and the yeast cannot utilize it. This will later cause oxidation of the alchohols which gives a wet cardboard taste. The key is temperature. The generally accepted temperature cutoff for preventing wort oxidation is 90F. Likewise, if oxygen is introduced after the fermentation has started, it will not be utilized by the yeast and will later cause bad flavors. This is why it is important to cool the wort rapidly to below 90F, to prevent oxidation, and then aerate it by shaking or whatever to provide the dissolved oxygen that the yeast need. Cooling rapidly between 90 and 130 is important because this region is ideal for bacterial growth to establish itself in the wort. Most homebrewers use water baths around the pot, or copper tubing Wort Chillers to accomplish this cooling in about 20 minutes or less. A rapid chill also causes the Cold Break material to settle out, which decreases the amount of protein Chill Haze in the finished beer. Aeration of the wort can be accomplished several ways: shaking the container, pouring the wort into the fermenter so it splashes, or even hooking up an airstone to an aquarium air pump and letting that bubble for an hour. For the latter method, (which is popular) everything must be sanitized! Otherwise, Infection City. *** And for those looking for other Brewing Books, here are some good ones: The Complete Handbook of Homebrewing - by Dave Miller A great book for all the basics, highly recommended for beginning and intermediate brewers. Brewing the Worlds Great Beers - Dave Miller Another good book which explores the basics of beer making in a simpler approach than his Handbook. Brewing Lager Beer - by Greg Noonan A more technical book for the brewer who wants to know Why... He covers the brewing processes in-depth. John Palmer palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com This is a great hobby, eh?! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 1994 11:32:18 -0500 From: rprice at cbmse.nrl.navy.mil Subject: Yeast Preservation As I do cell encap for a living just thought I'd throw in my two cents worth. When you finish with a batch and want to keep the infection rate down, to a manageable level. And none of us will be able to reach 100% sterility, often even in the best labs. You may clean up your batch of yeast by filtering through a coffee filter (Melita works nice), which will pass on many of the yeast cells and retain the gook. Then let these settle, remove the excess water and then do the following. Clean your blender with BBrite, and fill with a bit of sterile water. Blend in about 4% by weight sodium alginate (Kelco LV or equivalent). Blend until it is hydrated (makes a nice clear suspension). Then add your yeast at a 50/50 ratio with the alginate. Now fill your blender with about a half to 1 cup of oil, and get it blending on a very low speed so you see a vortex. Follow this by looking on your brewshelf for gypsum (calcium sulphate), add a small amount (about 1% by wt) to the alginate mix as fast as you can. Then add in a slow stream at first. Once the oil begins to look milky add the rest fast. Increase the speed to maintain the vortex for about 10 minutes. Then stop. The alginate/yeast will then separate from the oil. Pour off the oil. Follow this by getting a fresh coffee flter, pour in the alginate/yeast and let the excess water drain. Briefly wash the microcapsules in alcohol (cheap vodka) to remove oil/surface contamination and kill off external bacteria. Freeze in freezer compartment. Alginate works as a cryoprotectant (kinda like Yukon Jack for yeast). Put in small quantities in a suitable container. Make a starter, add microencapsulated yeast, let grow out , and !!!! You should get your yeast back, fairly bacteria free, and ready to go. Besides it's more fun than slants or petri-dishes. In addition the alginate is super to use in beer for a fining agent, and a heading agent...... Many producers do to keep the head on your beer when they put it in those dirty, detergent contaminated mugs. Cheers !! A final thought (all the problems of mankind can be corrected by the prevention of premature release). Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 10:38:25 -0600 (CST) From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570) Subject: belgian malt ideas First, what are these malts? Cara-Vienne 20L crystal malt Cara-Munich 72L crystal malt Special B 200L "roasted" crystal malt Biscuit Kilned specialty malt Our homebrew club recently held a malt meeting, and Brian North of North Brewing Supplies ran a blind tasting of about a dozen imported crystal malts. This revealed in dramatic fashion that the maltster and the malt have big effect on malt flavor, which is then imparted into your beer. Here are some ways to use them. A grain bill such as the following: xxx pounds pale malt 1 pound cara-vienne 2 - 3 ounces special B produces an amber beer, as does: xxx pounds pale malt 1 pound cara-Munich. Either of these might be suitable grain bills for a pale ale or a vienna. For an abbey style beer, try the following: xxx pounds pale malt yyy pounds munich malt 0.5 pounds cara-vienne or cara-munich 2 pounds sugar or honey 1/4 - 1/2 pound special-B noble hops to 30 IBUs wyeast Belgian or Chimay yeast Aim for 1.080 sg. Play with the proportion of Munich malt and the amount of special B. Of course, depending on the kinds and amounts of malt used, you'll get different colors and flavors. Finally, biscuit malt should be considered amber malt. Try combinations of pale malt, crystal malt, and biscuit malt in a pale ale, bitter, scottish ale, or strong beer. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 12:04:08 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> Subject: Re: Mashing Wits Al writes about ddry hopping: > > I'm not sure: > Alt & Koelsch (I defer comment to Roger). Alts yes, at least the really assertive ones from the Altstadt in Dusseldorf. Koelsch, I dont think so. Very delicate hop nose and flavor, not very arsertive. Great with Koln Caviar? (as long as you dont ask what that is!). > > From: slkinsey at aol.com > Subject: Mashing unmalted grains > > I am gathering information in preparation to brewing a Belgian Wit style > beer. The grist will be approximately 45% raw, unmalted wheat. My question > is how to go about mashing this stuff. Although regular infusion mashing > would work to some extent, (wheat gelatinizes between 125 and 147 degrees) > this method seems to produce uniformly low OGs due to the very low diastatic > power of the grist. If you havent done it how do you know? Infusion mashing of Wit beers with 45% raw wheat works, and to best of my knowledge, is the method of production in Belgium. I have done it. Use long staged protein rests, and a dilute mash. Remember, the OG is 1.044-.1048 ish so we arent looking for big gravities. Good brewing, Jim Busch DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 11:15:43 EST From: "Peter Miller {84663}" <pdm at swlvx2.msd.ray.com> Subject: Hops roots >Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 07:46:21 EST >From: "Paul Austin (8-293-5810 or (914))" <huckfinn at vnet.IBM.COM> >Subject: Hops roots > >Where can I get Cascade hops roots for growing? I live in the >Northeast, between Albany and NYC, and I'd like to know about >any mail-order houses or stores in the area that sell these. > >Paul Austin There is a beer/wine hobby mail-order outfit in Woburn, MA, called Beer & Wine Hobby that sells hops roots on a seasonal basis. They can be reached at: Beer & Wine Hobby 180 New Boston Street, Rear Woburn MA 01801 (617) 933-8818 Orders: 1-800-523-5423 Fax (617) 662-0872 Pete Miller pdm at swl.msd.ray.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 09:13:54 -0800 (PST) From: alm at ibeam.jf.intel.com (Al Marshall) Subject: Organic Malting Barley (2nd Attempt) Please excuse the first botched message. A friend is searching for a commercial grower of organic malting-quality barley. Any and all leads would be appreciated. Please respond to: alm at ibeam.intel.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 1994 10:11:26 -0600 (MDT) From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu> Subject: Oak Casks. Discussion of Worth! *** Someone asked.... >> Does anyone have good sources for aging in oak casks ... access to >> books with info ... <old books> ...snip >Steve Tollefsrud of VALBONNE, France sed >WHY?! >Storing beer in oak casks would be bad.... wine in oak barrels .... >to contribute TANNINS .... In beermaking, we do everything we can to avoid >extracting bitter tannins from the grain husks, ...why put beer in oak. * Well, time to disagree! Oak adds a character, a quality, that is much desired for a beer. Even the King (spud) uses Beachwood. Wood is a flavor that is much recognized in many QUALITY beers through antiquity. Watch that episode of the BeerHunter and you'll understand why. They look neat, and add tastes. Besides...it's fun tapping an OAK CASK. I don't have the biochemistry down, but I'd be inclined to think that the tannins from malt husks are different from the tannins in oak. (my un-biochemical taste buds tell me so, for one). There would not be a market, and references in various brew-texts to the use of oak chips, and oak essence were it not for a desirable quality imparted by oak. Check out Foster's Pale Ale book for a nice discussion (and favorable!) of the use of oak for an GENUINE IPA. Brewing Techniques had a nice article or Cask Conditioning in America. It is true that most of these casks used by brewpubs are stainless steel, but that's more for ease and assurance. Oak, or wood is a challenge, one which requires a certain level of mastery and know-how to pull off successfully. So if you aren't up to it... FINE. But Chips and essence are out there to be had, and added to any brew deserving of such attention. That same issue of BT had a list of suppliers of casks and parts. I just lent it out, so if the original poster (sorry missed it) wants that, drop me an e-mail and I'll send it to you when I get the mag back. Maybe folks don't like oak in france, but it's pretty common in german beers. BTW: If you missed it, check my report on the first Cask Conditioning attempt in the same HBD as this previous message. I'm no master of Oak. But hey...I'm willing to try. Cuz it's authentic, it's intersting to learn about, it looks KOOL, and it has the potential to deliver a truly fine brew. (if I can get things right!). It was amazing to watch a bunch of fellowhomebrewers and american swill-quaffers consuming flat oakey beer side by side, and enjoying it. I didn't notice any get tossed down the sink. But I was too busy serving, and tasting myself. Got good responses. BTW: The quotes were ...snipped...to avoid over recycling. Ok ulick? \-\-\- John (The Coyote) Wyllie SLK6P at cc.usu.edu -/-/-/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 12:15:38 "EST From: Gary S. Kuyat <gsk at sagan.bellcore.com> Subject: pH meter for < $60 Full-Name: Gary S. Kuyat Recently reading about expensive pH meters, I dug up the info on mine. Byram Labs is selling a temperature correcting pH meter for less than $60. The meter pH range is 0-14 and the temp range is 32-158F (0-70C). It is accurrate to .1 pH unit. (What the heck is that unit called anyway???) The unit also functions as a digital thermometer (a switch for C or F). The model I have is HHPH1 (if you call them, ask for a "cut sheet" or just talk to a technician for mre info). This model is easy to use, and though it isn't accurate on BOILING water, I really don't need that for my brewing. Byram Labs' phone number is 1-800-766-1212. Standard don't work for them, own stock etc. but the meter is nice and not too pricey. - -- -Gary Kuyat gsk at sagan.bellcore.com (908)699-8422 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 09:41:11 PST From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros) Subject: ales to lagers I'm looking for advice and things to look out for when making the big switch from ales to lagers. I've got a fair number of all grain ales behind me. What are the big differences in the malt to use, mashing techniques, and of course, fermentation? Thanks for the help. - Bryan bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 94 12:42:53 EST From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE) Subject: complete joy A minor query: How do you pronounce Papazian? Papa-zeeyawn? Pah-Pay-zion? Or what? TIA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 1994 12:49:45 -0500 (EST) From: COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L at Lilly.com Subject: Re: All-Grain Strong Ale I received several posts about my all-grain strong ale recipe. The long ingredient lists (lots of crystals etc) was done for two reasons. Number One and formost, this should be FUN. When I ponder what I will put in a beer I have fun with it. Reason Two, I wanted this to be a complex beer. It was complex. From a sweet, hoppy nose to a raisiny (thanx Spec. B), malty, bitter flavor it went down easy. This was a beer I would have wished to bottle, but I procrastinated and ran out of time. Four days before my club meeting (spotlight on strong ales) I kegged, chilled and force carbonated. Even though I prefer the pale ale and porter styles, this was my best brew so far. I enjoy the unusual. I have an Oat Pale Ale and a Pumpkin Dunkel Weizenbock in their respective carboys right now. I brew because it is fun! Sandy C. From: COCKERHAM SANDRA L (MCVAX0::RX31852) To: VMS MAIL ADDRESSEE (IN::"homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com") Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 09:52:24 -0800 (PST) From: gummitch at teleport.com (Jeff Frane) Subject: Dry-Hopping Advice Al Korzonas writes: > > Yes. There is no doubt that Czech Pilsner is dryhopped and it is > traditionally only dryhopped with Czech Saaz. I recomend whole or > plugs (cause they float). > I think this is incorrect. I believe that the Czech brewers achieve their hop character without any dry-hopping at all. In fact, according to DeClerq, the brewers at PU consider the hop aroma to be something of a defect -- an unfortunate result of their brewing process in their quest for other characteristics of the beer's flavor profile. If you can find a reliable source that credits the PU or Budvar brewers with dry-hopping, I'd like to see it. > Usually dryhopped: > Czech Pilsner, English Pale Ale, Barleywine, American Brown Ale, American > Pale Ale, India Pale Ale. > Barleywine? Al! > Sometimes dryhopped: > Bitter, Scottish Ale, Stouts, Strong English and Scotch Ales, > several Belgian Ales (like Orval), Porter. > Once again, I find this spurious. I do not think that any of these (except Bitter and Orval) are commonly (or even "sometimes") dryhopped. Unless by that you mean that you've found one or two examples that have been. Scotch ales, in particular, are noted for the *lack* of hop aroma in the finish. It is entirely possible, and actually far more common, to have a hoppy finish in a beer that isn't dry-hopped at all. In fact, I would say that dry-hopping is (outside of homebrew circles) a pretty rare phenomenon. > My advise: don't get too hung up on styles. Try dryhopping. If you like > it, dryhop. If you want to make a dryhopped Mild, then don't let anyone > stop you. > Well, yeah. But, on the other hand, don't expect to win any prizes with a dry-hopped Mild, either. - --Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: 03 Feb 1994 12:52:53 -0500 (EST) From: "J. Hunter Heinlen" <STBLEZA at grove.iup.edu> Subject: RE:brewing in oak casks NOT! In a recent HBD, steve_t at fleurie.inria.fr (Steven Tollefsrud) said: >WHY?! > >Storing wine in oak casks is good. Storing beer in oak casks would be bad. >The reason Bordeaux wine producers store wine in oak barrels for a couple >of years is to contribute TANNINS to the wine which make the wine age >better. In beermaking, we do everything we can to avoid extracting bitter >tannins from the grain husks, so why defeat the purpose by putting the beer >in oak?? Steven, you seem to be the only negative responce, and considering that the others responces were from nine people who have done just what I asked, and they had good to excellent results, I think you will understand when I tell you that I consider your responce to be uninformed. Yes, there are some tannins in oak WOOD, but not many. Mostly tannins occur in the leaves, bark, and acorns. That's why I use the leaves, bark, and acorns to tan leather with, and not the wood (yes, this is experience talking). I have tried oak fermented and aged beers (a porter and an IPA), and enjoyed both, with both of them not being as bitter as their bottled counterparts, and more mellow and ballanced. BTW, one, the porter, was both casked and bottled from the same batch. I tried both during the same evening, and, hence, both were aged for the same length of time. The data points of experience seem to be against you. Sorry for the long rant. Flames can be send to SOMEONE-ELSE at no.net.address. +*****************************************+***********************************+ | This is only a test of the Emergency |J. Hunter Heinlen | | Ontology System. Had this been a real |(AKA SCA Jacobus Jager Draake) | | moral dilemma, you would have been told |(Internet:STBLEZA at GROVE.IUP.EDU) | | what to believe. - The Government | Ideas Contemplated While You Wait | +=========================================+===================================+ Life without pain has no meaning. I wish to give your life some meaning. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 09:43:37 -0800 (PST) From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at ZGI.COM> Subject: The Spent Grain Baking Company I've received some requests for more details on this company so thought a post was in order. Their address and phone number is: The Spent Grain Baking Company 2210 N. Pacific Street Seattle, WA 98103 (206) 632-9506 Their packaging states in part: We invite your comments. To receive recipes from our Brewer's Baker and a catalog of Brewer's spent Grain Bread mixes for bread machines, send us your name and address. It all begins with the grain. The finest of our small Northwest brewers brew their specialty beers in the handcrafted tradition using malted grains. Wholesome grains called English Two Row and Five Row are roasted to halt a brief germination that develops the distinct malt flavor. After milling, the gristed and malted grains are steeped in warm water to form the mash. In the mash tun enzymes quickly convert the starches in the mash to sugar. The brewer then separates the grains from much of their sugar in a liquor call the wort (ryhmes with shirt) and add the hops which give beer it bitter nuance. After a brief boil in the brew kettle, the master brewer gives eager yeast cells the task of brewing the wort into delicious beers. And what of the spent grains? Spent is a sad misnomer, for these flavorful grains yet abound with nutrition and important dietary fiber...less sugar. Fresh spent grains are recovered and blended with wholesome flour by our Brewer's Baker. Dough enhanced by the spent grains is kneaded and handcrafted into crusty loaves and rolls for your eating pleasure. Beer? We believe beer is for drinking and therefore we do not use beer in any of our bread...just the spent grain for flavor. SPENT GRAIN BREAD: A rich chewy bread surrounded by a crunchy crust. Spent grain from lighter Ales and Pilsners gives this slightly tangy bread its unique flavor. BREWER'S BREAD: Hearty round loaves with whole wheat, rye meal, and toasted sunflower seeds. Great with soup or sliced for your favorite sandwich. Only spent grain from Porters or Stouts for this rustic bread. TRAPPIST SOUR: A light rye leavened with a sour starter of rye meal, wheat flour, and brewer's yeast from a memorable Trappist Ale. Standard disclaimers apply. Domenick Venezia ZymoGenetics, Inc. Seattle, WA venezia at zgi.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 10:10:11 -0800 (PST) From: Zach Fresco <zfresco at helen.bush.edu> Subject: stuck firmentation Im a new brewer and I just siphoned my second batch into the secondary fermenter and there is no action at all in the firmentation lock. I used 3 and a half pounds of light malt extract, one pound of cinimen honey and 2 and a half pounds of clover honey. I used cascade hopps if thet makes any difference. The primery firmentation went normally but when I siphoned nothing happened. when I shake the carboy there are a few quick bubbles but then everything stopps. Help Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 13:19:30 "EST From: Gary S. Kuyat <gsk at sagan.bellcore.com> Subject: cancel article 02031015.17655 Full-Name: Gary S. Kuyat cancel article 02031015.17655 - -- -Gary Kuyat gsk at sagan.bellcore.com (908)699-8422 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 13:21:05 "EST From: Gary S. Kuyat <gsk at sagan.bellcore.com> Subject: Temp Correcting pH meter for < $60 Full-Name: Gary S. Kuyat Recently reading about expensive pH meters, I dug up the info on mine. Byram Labs is selling a temperature correcting pH meter for less than $60. The meter pH range is 0-14 and the temp range is 32-158F (0-70C). It is accurrate to .1 pH unit. (What the heck is that unit called anyway???) The unit also functions as a digital thermometer (a switch for C or F). The model I have is HHPH1 (if you call them, ask for a "cut sheet" or just talk to a technician for more info). This model is easy to use, and though it isn't accurate on BOILING water, I really don't need that for my brewing. Byram Labs' phone number is 1-800-766-1212. Standard don't work for them, own stock etc. but the meter is nice and not too pricey. - -- -Gary Kuyat gsk at sagan.bellcore.com (908)699-8422 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 13:33:31 EST From: GREGORY T LALIBERTE <gtlali01 at msuacad.morehead-st.edu> Subject: Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 10:51 PST From: MAXWELLS at axe.humboldt.edu Subject: Looking for Brew Schools Prost! to everyone out in brew land...I am currently almost a graduate at Humboldt State, in California...My major is geared toward business with emphasis in chemistry...I am hoping to open my own brewery someday...I want to go to brew school, but was wondering if anyone knew of a school other than the Siebel Institute (this is my first choice)...I know they have an excellent program, but I am looking for a west coast alternative. Also, I am aware of UC Davis, but there's is more of a four year program and is also wine related...So if anyone knows of anything west of the mississippi please let me know... Also, I just bought a mini-keg system from Brew Ha Ha, and was wondering if anyone had any experience with this system...any feedback would be appreciated...thanx Humboldt Hophead prost and jib heavily Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 94 12:45:00 PST From: "Merchant, Thomas E" <temercha at hsv23.pcmail.ingr.com> Subject: Request for Alaska (Chinook) beer recipe I am looking for an extract recipe that approximates the amber brew named Alaska beer. I understand that this beer used to be called Chinook beer. Any guidance or recipes will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Thomas Merchant temercha at ingr.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 94 12:53:08 CST From: Paul_Biron_at_AOS200 at mmacmail.jccbi.gov Subject: Underpriming Can anyone give me suggestions on what to do with an underprimed batch of brown ale. I used the normal 3/4 cup of corn sugar for priming but after nearly three weeks, the carbonation level is very low. The bottles however do have a normal amount of sediment. This was a partial mash recipe using YeastLab Irish ale. Any feedback would be sincerely appreciated. Thanks in advance. Paul Biron FAA/AOS230 Oklahoma City Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 94 10:25:27 CST From: "Edward F. Loewenstein" <SNREDLOW at MIZZOU1.missouri.edu> Subject: Calorie Chart Good morning all! I'll keep this real short because I don't want to take up bandwidth due to sheer unadulterated stupidity. Two days ago, Wed Feb 2, a homebrew calorie chart was posted. Did anyone save a copy? If so, would you be so kind as to send it to me. TIA, Ed Loewenstein SNREDLOW at MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU Univ. of MO School of Nat. Res. Forestry Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 11:09:47 -0800 From: Richard Stueven <gak at wrs.com> Subject: Re: Cannabis >Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 09:53:09 EST >From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu > >Just FYI: Cannabis and Hops are about as closely related as humans and >monkeys. No real reason to think one would substitute for the other. You obviously don't work in the software industry... (Oof!) have fun gak Richard Stueven, Castro Valley CA gak & gerry's garage, brewery and hockey haven Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 13:12:32 EST From: sdlsb.dnet!73410%sdlcc at swlvx2.msd.ray.com (Carl Howes) Subject: hop removal/stout boil Al wrote: > Unless you cool before pouring through the kitchen strainer, you will have > some Hot-Side Aeration. I simply use a hop bag for each hop addition and > then remove the hops, bag and all, from the kettle after the boil. I do, but warnings about HSA are generally in order - taking care in that area has improved my beers enormously. My experience with hop bags was that they tend to fill up and compress the hops (starting with plugs) and I lose enough utilization in partial boiling already so I stopped using them. YMM (and probably will) V. I wrote (in a stout recipie): > Boil for 90 minutes to drive off hop aromatics. Al replied: > Well, that might indeed happen, but it certainly is not *why* you boil. I *knew* that! The problem here is frame of reference. My normal boil time is 60 minutes which I extended until I could no longer smell anything that registered as aromatics. Carl Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 94 14:44:26 EST From: carlsont at GVSU.EDU (TODD CARLSON) Subject: Re:b bright In my never ending quest for better (read more convenient) sanitation, I have obtained some B Bright. The catalog said "kills bacteria on contact" as did half of my beer stuff catalogs. But the other half (and the B Bright container) described it as a cleanser. In my mind cleaners and sanitizers are not necessarly the same thing. Can any of you knowledgeable folks out there on the information superhighway set me straight on this one? Should I just stick with NaClO (bleach)? Thanks in advance for your info Todd carlsont at gvsu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 94 15:01:34 EST From: yeebot at aol.com Subject: Lambic Digest on Net Can somebody e-mail/post a subscription netdress for the Lambic Digest? TIA! Brew easy, Mike Yee Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1342, 02/04/94