FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  yeast washing (Mark Garti  mgarti at xyplex.com)
  Brewery Tours in UK (rprice)
  Beer glasses and short pints ("George W. Gilchrist")
  [Meta-Discussion]  Good Morning, HBD! (Martin Lodahl)
  Grateful deaf Home Brew (Bob Brewer) (by way of mfetzer at ucsd.edu (The Rider) (Michael Fetzer))
  New Masher (art)
  Re: Why wait for 70 degrees? (lawson)
  The Way We Were (Darryl Richman)
  Hoplet Problems? (WHEATON_JOHN/HPBOI1_03)
  priming with DME (Darin Jackson)
  Beer Machine (thomas ciccateri)
  Useless Brewing Items (Mike Lemons)
  Women Only Competition (Steve Daniel)
  Maibock ("Thomas J. Ramsey")
  unhopped extracts (Lessard_Michael/HP-Exeter_s2)
  Brew Pubs: St. Lou-Memphis (Philip Clayton Fare)
  Doppelbock (Doug Lukasik)
  London Special Ale no more (Jeff Frane)
  Single stage v. Two stage fermentation (BUKOFSKY)
  Raising pH/Partial Mashing/Thanks (npyle)
  The needless waste of space on HBD (GNT_TOX_)
  Re: Misc (Jim Busch)
  Sugar Krauesen/Hopback hose? (emeeks)
  (from misc.jobs.offered) Looking for Brewmeister - Erie, PA (Jim Sims)
  looking for homebrew stores in s. NH (Dan `Hefe' Wiesen)
  DMS production (Bill Szymczak)
  Wheat Beer, is it just the yeast?  I don't think so! (dmorey)
  pH and water chemistry HELP (William A Kuhn)
  Cat's Meow on Macintosh 800K disk/ (8-293-5810 or (914))" <huckfinn at vnet.IBM.COM>
  institutional exclusionism ("JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR")
  Coleman BTU (btalk)
  Rhinocerous Stout (Jack St Clair)
  Cookers etc. (rprice)
  CO2 Technique (Steve Scampini)
  re: cancel (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Bay Area BJCP Exam (Glenn Raudins)


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For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 16:37:22 EST
From: mrg at mrg.xyplex.com (Mark Garti mgarti at xyplex.com)
Subject: yeast washing

The yeast faq talks about washing yeast.  I thought that this procedure
was supposed to be done with some sort of acid to lower the pH and
kill the nasties???  Does any one know the procedure?
Mark

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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 15:56:28 -0500
From: rprice at cbmse.nrl.navy.mil
Subject:  Brewery Tours in UK


Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of smaller breweries in the
UK, where they welcome homebrewers and answer real questions.
We are going to the UK in June and would like to hit several of the
breweries for more information.  

In the past we have been stuck on the tourist list I guess and get really
less than knowledgible guides at many of the "big names" and come
away with little knowledge.  On a previous tour of Scottish breweries
and distillers the tiny places often had the brewmaster or owner take
you aroung and if you asked knowledgible questions they knocked
themselves out showing you the guts of their lifes work (not to mention
the private bottle of 40 year old single malt, or the "personal" batch of
heavy.

Cheers and thanks 1!




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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 14:04:23 PST
From: "George W. Gilchrist" <gilchgw at zoology.washington.edu>
Subject: Beer glasses and short pints

I've noticed several posts lately regarding short pints in various pubs. 
It has also been mentioned that, in civilized countries (i.e. England), 
there are laws against that sort of thing. Most pubs in the UK use 
glasses that are marked at the pint level (19.6 oz) with a line about a 
half inch or so below the rim. It's a great solution and I've been 
wondering if there is a source for such glasses in the US. If anyone 
knows of such, please post or email me the address. Cheers.

George W. Gilchrist
Dept. of Zoology, UW
Internet: gilchgw at zoology.washington.edu


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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 14:24:44 -0800 (PST)
From: malodah at pbgueuze.scrm2700.PacBell.COM (Martin Lodahl)
Subject: [Meta-Discussion]  Good Morning, HBD!

In HOMEBREW Digest #1349, James Clark opined:

[NB:  I'm not attacking you, James.  You just happened to raise the
perfect set of questions.]

> Phillip Seitz got mad at the entire digest because _one_ person made his
> belgian friend leave the digest [...]
> 		...  however, to criticize the whole digest
> is even more immature.  what do you expect, mr. seitz?

I can't speak for Phil Seitz, but what I expect is a mature and
responsible approach to the rare opportunity HBD represents.  We
haven't seen much of that lately, have we?

>  don't you think
> that with the amount of people on this digest it is inevitable that once in
> a while someone might write in something that offends someone else?  

Not necessarily.  There was a time when such things were rare, because
the participants in the discussion didn't take HBD for granted, and
understood that the responsibility for maintaining the quality
of the discussion was theirs.  That understanding has apparently
been lost.

>			... maybe
> if your belgian friend had felt that he would  be able to learn something
> from this digest and not just help out all us lowly novices he would have
> been more likely to overlook the offense, wade through the crap that gets
> posted here (including this post), and read the stuff that really counts. 

Just exactly so:  as long as the discussion is heavy in noise and light
on signal, the very people HBD needs most will have _no_ incentive
to participate.  Why on earth _should_ they?

It's as simple as this:  You don't piss in the well gives you water.
Many who have been some of the most valuable voices on HBD post
rarely or not at all now, because they don't need the noise.  If
your postings are mostly met with nitpicks and flames, you have to
conclude that your contribution isn't valued, right?  The same
applies for grossly inappropriate requests.

> as i stated before, i accept the flame, but i think mr. seitz owes the rest
> of the digest an apology.

And I disagree.  He gave us a wakeup call that we seriously needed.

> lastly, i just read through papazian's section on all grain brewing for the
> second time and i am still thoroughly confused.  does anyone know of some
> literature on this subject that covers the process step-by-step (i can't
> figure when to do what from charlie's book because he skips around so
> much).

I favor Dave Miller's "Complete Handbook of Homebrewing" (Garden
Way, Storey Publications, '88 or thereabouts).  For leading you
through the intricacies of all-grain brewing, I know of no better
text.

= Martin Lodahl		Systems Analyst, Capacity Planning, Pacific*Bell =
= malodah at pacbell.com      Sacramento, CA USA	            916.972.4821 =
=    If it's good for ancient Druids runnin' nekkid through the wuids,   =
=  Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  (Unk.)   =

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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 14:25:28 -0800
From: bobb at pacifier.rain.com (Bob Brewer) (by way of mfetzer at ucsd.edu (The Rider) (Michael Fetzer))
Subject: Grateful deaf Home Brew

On January 23, the Grateful Deaf (Hearing Impaired) Homebrewing Club held
their 2nd annual home brewing competition at Admiralty Beverage in
Portland Oregon.  Jim Kennedy the owner of Admiralty deserves all our
thanks for providing the facilities for an excellent event.

AHA judges, mostly from the Oregon Brew Crew, judged all beers in 10
categories.  Our thanks go out to the Oregon Brew Crew and all the volunteer
judges.

The awards ceremony was held during halftime of the Superbowl at KC's
Sports Center in Portland, OR.  The event was attended by approximately
_150 deaf/hearing impaired homebrewers and affectionados.  Grateful Deaf
homebrew was served as well as beer donated by Northwestern Brew Pub,
Nor'Wester (Willamette Valley Brewing), McMenamins, Star, Widmer, and
Portland Brewing.  Our thanks go to all these Breweries for their
contribution and support.

Best of Show award went to Scott Martin for his Brown Ale.  Best on Tap
award also went to Scott Martin for his IPA.  Ken Fisher received the Home
Brewer of the year award.  Ken is the president of the club and the
driving force behind the competition and the awards ceremony.

Any Deaf or hearing impaired homebrewers that would like participate in
next years competition can contact Bob Brewer  bobb at pacifier.rain.com, PO
Box 36, Yacolt, WA.  Any phone calls can be directed to Jennifer Blackburn
club secretary at (503)777-0165.

Information about the Oregon Brew Crew is available on the club BBS
(503)639-4135 or  voice message line (503)288-BREW or by contacting the
Brew Crew, _7260 SW 82nd, Portland, OR _97223.




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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 15:14:22 PST
From: art at art.md.interlink.com
Subject: New Masher

HELP! 

I've read everything there is to read, and now I'm ready to take the 
all-grain plunge. I'm pretty nervous, because I haven't even seen 
anybody perform a full mash before, and I'm more or less winging it. 

I'm attempting the "Trappist" recipe out of the Cat's Meow, and am 
unsure whether I should dough-in all grains simultaniously, including 
the malted wheat.  I'm planning on using the step-infusion called for 
in the recipe.

If anyone out there could give me some pointers (and encouragement), 
I would be very appreciative.  Be gentle...

Private mail is ok (in fact, preferred), unless you think it's 
beneficial to everyone else out there.

Thanks in advance.

Art Tumolo
art at leo.md.interlink.com

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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 18:28:17 -0500 (EST)
From: lawson at clcunix.msj.edu
Subject: Re: Why wait for 70 degrees?

 Andrey Shaw wrote:
> 2.  What is so special about the 70 degrees for pitching?  What I have been
> doing is letting the wort cool overnight and then pitching in the morning.
> Is there something serious wrong with this procedure?  I can't for the life
> of me see the problem, especially if I am using starter yeast.
> 
   You need to cool the wort to 70 degrees because hotter wort might kill
the yeast.  Yes, there is something seriously wrong with waiting until the
morning to pitch your yeast--you dramatically increase the chance that 
bacteria and wild yeast will infect your brew and contribute nasty flavors.
As a general rule, the sooner  you pitch the yeast, the better--immediately
pitching the yeast is the best route.  There is no need to let your wort
sit for ANY amount of time prior to pitching your yeast.  If you are   
brewing with malt extract, do this: keep the sterile water in your 
refrigerator until you are ready to brew (i.e., the 3 gallons of water
you will put in the fermenter to mix with the wort).  While brewing,
put the 3 gallons of water in your freezer for 45 minutes or until it
begins to show signs of freezing.  After boiling your 2-2.5 gallons of
wort, cover the pot and submerge it in very cold water for 10 minutes (I
use a laundry tub and fill it with cold water with some ice cubes). Next,
pour your 3 gallons of VERY cold water into the carboy and strain in the
2 gallons of partially cooled (though still hot) wort.  You should find
that the temperature of the mix is now at a good pitching temperature.
So, pitch your yeast immediately and you should notice that they start
fermenting immediately (i.e., you will see CO2 bubbles starting to form
in the airlock)--if not, you are not making your yeast starter properly.

Hope this helps!
Tim Lawson  

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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 16:40:57 TZ
From: Darryl Richman <darrylri at microsoft.com>
Subject: The Way We Were

I normally ignore the flames, off subject posts, and other irritations 
of net life to the best of my ability;  I know that the larger the HBD 
audience grows, the more it will resemble the rest of Usenet.  I used 
to encourage people to join the HBD because it was a high quality 
resource, where the discussion was focused and people could politely 
agree to disagree where objective science left off and art began.  
There was a certain respect for each other, because even if we were 
treading different paths, we had the same goals.  Now I'm not so sure.  
I certainly don't give the HBD the glowing recommendations that I used to.

jeclark at bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (James Clark) writes:
> Phillip Seitz got mad at the entire digest because _one_ person made his
> belgian friend leave the digest.

Guilt by association.  You may feel that it is unfair to the rest of 
the reading public -- and it is -- but if we want to make the digest 
return to its former high state of signal to noise, we must all work 
together to do it.  It only takes a few selfish people to ruin it for 
everyone else.

> don't you think
> that with the amount of people on this digest it is inevitable that once in
> a while someone might write in something that offends someone else?

Of course it is.  It has always been so.  The difference is whether 
there is enough mutual respect present to overcome problems like this.  
With that respect in place, an occasional bad posting is seen as an 
aberration;  without it, it looks to be the norm.  Until we return to a 
state where we accord some respect to what other people want out of 
this digest, we will not be able to attract and keep those sources we 
really treasure on the net.

> if your belgian friend had felt that he would  be able to learn something
> from this digest and not just help out all us lowly novices he would have
> been more likely to overlook the offense, wade through the crap that gets
> posted here (including this post), and read the stuff that really counts.

Consider what causes someone to give up their time for the digest;  why 
should a busy person read the HBD for the few nuggets that interest 
them, or take the time to answer a question when the only result from 
this investment is a lack of respect and a continuous show of 
selfishness?  One might read the digest for a while and grow to respect 
the other posters for their insight, resourcefulness, or knowledge in a 
variety of areas.  Only then would there be some real basis for putting 
up with a problem poster or two.  Only then could one be certain of 
getting a return in kind.  Respect is not given automatically, it is earned.

		--Darryl Richman

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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 17:55:00 -0700
From: WHEATON_JOHN/HPBOI1_03 at hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
Subject: Hoplet Problems?

Item Subject: e:\beer\hoplet.txt

I have been using the Hoplet plugs for the last several batches and have found
them to be quite good.   However, I have recently had  bad experience
with Styrian and Kent Goldings and Fuggles.  When I opened the package
they smelled very cheesy and were yellow.  I decided not to use them in
my dry hop and will be bringing them back to my supplier.

Anyone else have this experience?  I can't remember the brand but here is
the description of the package and contents:

 -packaged in a barrier/foil type of bag with professional lettering
 -they say they were packaged in the UK
 -there are ten 1/2oz hop plugs
 -sell for about $ 4 to 5 a package

The cascades and norther brewer have been very good.

Any clues here?

jw in boise


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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 17:03:22 PST
From: darin_jackson at rainbow.mentorg.com (Darin Jackson)
Subject: priming with DME

Hello,

I want to try priming with DME and corn sugar, one in each keg of the same batch
of beer. I use 3/4 of a cup of corn sugar, how much DME should I use? I won't
worry too much about what kind, just a basic amount will be sufficient.

Thanks,

Darin
darin_jackson at mentorg.com

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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 19:45:24 -0700 (MST)
From: tciccate at unm.edu (thomas ciccateri)
Subject: Beer Machine

  Great news !  For those who hate the hassles of cleaning up after
brewing or the excessive time it takes to actually boil your wort, there
is now a miracle soultion; The Beer Machine.  Yes, as advertised
 in the February DAMARK catalog, for only $89.99 you too can produce and
dispense 2.6 gallons of premium beer in just 7 to 10 days.  Choose your
style from Pilsner Light, American Lager, and American Ale (mixes are
$8.99).  Sorry, this Personal Micro Brewery is not available in OK, UT, or
AK.  Is it just me or are we finally starting to reap the rewards of
Defense Conversion and Dual-Use Technologies ?

Tom Ciccateri
University of New Mexico - Hitchhiker on the Information Superhighway
Training and Learning Technologies Div.
tciccate at carina.unm.edu


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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 18:43:45 PST
From: mikel at netlink.nix.com (Mike Lemons)
Subject: Useless Brewing Items

I would like to start a message thread listing worthless brewing items
that people have purchased or considered purchasing.  Here are my two
contributions to the list:

IODINE TEST STRIPS
These are used to test the strength of iodine sterilizer. 
Unfortunately, their color change is so slight that you are better off
using the color change of the iodine solution itself. In other words, it
is easier to observe the change from clear, to amber, to light brown
than it is to observe the change from gray, to light blue, to light blue.

OXYGEN ABSORBING BEER CAPS
Since live yeast is so good at absorbing oxygen (In fact, a lot of
these caps contain yeast as their active ingredient!), I can't see why
anyone would need these expensive bottle caps.  Unless, of course, they
filter out all of their yeast, force carbonate and then bottle.
- --                    
INTERNET:  mikel at netlink.nix.com (Mike Lemons)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!mikel
Network Information eXchange * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115

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Date: 15 Feb 94 00:33:34 EST
From: Steve Daniel <71161.2610 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Women Only Competition

I have a few questions/comments concerning this sensitive subject:
 
1. Is this merely an idea at present, or have preparations actually begun?
2. Did women brewers come up with this idea?
3. If the reasoning used to justify this type of contest is truly sound,
   then what are we to do about the other groups (e.g. blacks) who are
   even less represented in our ranks than this one?
 
Increasing the diversity of the home-brewing population is a noble cause.
If, however, the responses generated by the mere mention of a women-only
competition is any indication of the outcome, then I fear it will do more
harm than good. Furthermore, it is my sincere belief that polarization,
whether by the teaspoon or by the truckload, is wrong. Women can brew beer,
enter it in any contest, learn from their experiences, and eventually win -
just like any of God's reasoning creatures.  Everyone, regardless of race,
color, creed, national origin or gender, must compete on the same ground if
they are to gain the respect and equality they desire and deserve.
 
The less relaxed, more worried home-brewer,
Steve Daniel
 


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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 01:35:33 -0600 (CST)
From: "Thomas J. Ramsey" <tjram at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Maibock

Hi all,
   First thing's first, could anybody who has a good recipie for a good
Maibock please forward it to me?  I would prefer all-grain.  Posting is OK,
private E-mail even better (not to mention faster).

   To the person (sorry, I can't remember who) who was asking about Koelsch
yeasts, I can't recommend the new Koelsch yeast from Wyeast highly enough.

So Long
T.J. in Austin <tjram at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>

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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 07:57:59 -0500
From: Lessard_Michael/HP-Exeter_s2 at om2.ch.apollo.hp.com
Subject: unhopped extracts

Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
Recently I stepped into a store that had 55 gal drums
of unhopped malt extract - syrup form.  I've been using
the dried extract in my brews.  What I noticed was the
syrup form is about a dollar cheaper per pound.  Considering
there is more water in the syrup form, is there a conversion
formula to use to be able to brew the same beers with dry
or liquid extract?  What are the pros and cons using liquid
versus dried?  I'm fairly new to this so please be gentle
if I'm asking a stupid question.

thanks
mike

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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 09:37:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Philip Clayton Fare <farephil at student.msu.edu>
Subject: Brew Pubs: St. Lou-Memphis

I live in St. Louis and will be travelling to Memphis soon.  Can anyone suggest
any brew pubs or micro-breweries to visit along the way?  Thanks!
Phil
farephil at student.msu.edu


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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 09:50:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Doug Lukasik <LUKASIK_D at sunybroome.edu>
Subject: Doppelbock

Hi all, Anyone out there have any tried and true recipes for a doppelbock?
I have searched my limited brewing library (TCJOHB, Zymurgy styles issue and
the Cat's Meow 2) and have not come up with many recipies or for that matter
much agreement on what ingredients go into this brew.  I usually create my 
own recipes from a combination of others and what sounds tasty to me.  

I have never made a doppelbock (or for that matter a Bock) and would truely 
appreciate any advice as I am going to proceed one way or the other this 
coming weekend %^)

TIA.  Private replies to save bandwidth appreciated.

Doug.  <lukasik_d at sunybroome.edu>

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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 07:04:24 -0800 (PST)
From: gummitch at teleport.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: London Special Ale no more

WYeast 1968, which has been called Special London Ale, is getting a new
name.  Apparently, the old name caused a lot of confusion, since they
already had a "London Ale" strain -- people wanted to know what the
difference was.

Well, the difference is that they are too completely different strains,
from different breweries.  But, at any rate, 1968 will now have a new
name: "London ESB".  Which, personally, I don't think solves anything.

Whatever the name, it is an exceptionally fine ale strain.  The only
problem I've encountered with it is a mysterious tendency for finished
bottles of beer brewed with it to disappear from the house.

- --Jeff


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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 10:24:35 -0400 (EST)
From: BUKOFSKY <sjb8052 at minerva.cis.yale.edu>
Subject: Single stage v. Two stage fermentation


I have a question:

  I have been using a single stage fermentation forever, but after
following this digest for a while, it seems that the majority of people
are racking to a secondary.  I've always been told that if you are
bottling within a week or two, it doesn't make a difference which method
you use.  Is this incorrect?  Assuming you are not dry-hopping, and are
bottling within a reasonable period of time, is there an advantage to a
two stage fermentation?

Thanks,

Scott


No cute comment.



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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 8:39:10 MST
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: Raising pH/Partial Mashing/Thanks

Steve Boxer writes:

>What do I use to raise the ph in my mash tun?   Just by adding the grain
>and tap water I get a ph or 4.9-5.0.  I assume that I should be around 5.4.

Steve, to raise pH you need to add carbonates.  The most common source is
calcium carbonate:  chalk.  This is not always a good idea if you don't know
what's in your water already (maybe you already have lots of calcium ions,
and don't want to add more.  Get a water report from your city, and work from
there.  Miller's book has a pretty good chapter on water adjustments.  That
said, I'm not sure I'd bother with a pH around 5.0, but it will go lower with
dark grains (I'm assuming you are talking about a pale mash).

**

Todd Carlson writes:

>          .....................  I have found a partial mash to little
>          extra work and it allows me to experiment with some of the
>          ingredients that would otherwise be unavailable to the
>          extract brewer.

I agree completely.  I encourage everyone to at least try partial mashing,
because of the options it gives you.  You now have access to every type of
grain in the world, because you can mash what needs it, instead of just
dealing with the specialty "not-necessary-to-mash" grains.  Best of all, it
can be done with stuff around the house; a little extra equipment, and a
little extra ingenuity.

**

Thanks to Spencer for the excellent essay on wheat beers.

Cheers,
Norm

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Date:     Tue, 15 Feb 94 11:01 EST
From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:  The needless waste of space on HBD

Well it seems everyone is complaing about the waste of space on HBD.
Well, only being on since sometime in November, I can tell you what I
find as a waste of space:

1. Constant requests for brewpub locations.  Can't someone keep a
master list that we all can reference?  How about an E-Mail address
where we can send names of brewpubs.

2. Sign off messages longer than some posts.  Just give us your name
and address.  Makes the HBD more manageable

3.  Requests to subscribe, unsubscribe and cancel articles.  Don't
know how this can be avoided.

4. PICTURES OF BEAVIS AND BUTTHEAD.  What the hell are they doing on
the HBD?

And now to legitmize this article, I will ask a brewing related
question:  is there a FAQ of some sort or an issue of Zymurgy out
there that details the different mashing methods.  I'm an extract
brewer, and have often seen the terms infusion, decoction, double
decoction, etc.  Could anyone possibly the define these terms for the
confused like me.

My two cents
Andrew Pastuszak
Philadelphia, PA


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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 11:13:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Misc

> Subject: Sterility possible?
> 
> microbiologists out there, what are the pathways for these bugs? How about 
> some practical techniques for eliminating these bad bugs, if its possible. 
> It seems to me that it should be possible to pick up a single yeast colony 
> from a plate and build it up without bugs. I remember the Zymurgy article 
> where the author injected his starters via a septum and did all transfers in 
> a homemade glove box. Would this make a difference? I have a motive in all 
> this, I am giving another talk this year at the AHA conference on building 
> yeast up to proper pitching ratios. I would gladly pass along any new ideas 
> and techniques that really help reduce the bacteria when building yeast 
> starters.

I think you are stuck with pressure cooking and autoclaving as the practical
methods of sterilization.  As you know, sanitizing is not sterilizing, and
supposedly the cocci arent around long enough to spoil the beer. 


> Another note, and one that is probably critical:  I used a large portion of
> hot water (then heated it more with my propane cooker) for the mash and
> sparge water.  This means the water was coming out of my water tank, rather
> than straight from the tap.  

I have a dedicated water heater, but I wouldnt worry too much about the tank.
The  water pulls off the top of the tank, and presumably the sediment is on 
the bottom.  You might want to flush and drain the tank if your going to use
it a lot.


Good brewing,
Jim Busch

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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 11:19:17 EST
From: emeeks at tx.ncsu.edu
Subject: Sugar Krauesen/Hopback hose?


Hi folks--

One of my batches-in-progress is a cream ale, scaled down from a recipe
in a recent _New_Brewer_. The grain/adjunct bill worked out to 12 lbs. 2-row
Klages, and 3 lbs. rice syrup for a 10 gallon batch. The OG was 1.050 and I
pitched the Wyeast Kolsh strain (used a starter, naturally).

According to the
recipe, I should ferment down to 1.010-1.014, transfer to a conditioning
vessel (in my case, 5-gal cornelius kegs), and krausen with what the author
called a sugar krausen at a volume of 10% of the fermented beer. I'm a bit
confused about the use of sugar. My understanding is that a fermented sugar
solution would result in a harsh, cidery mess, which of course I wouldn't
want to mix with my cream ale. I would like to experiment with krausening,
and follow the published recipe as close as possible. The article the recipe
comes from references some older texts that go on about how sugar krausening
"adds lusciousness" to cream ales. Once again, I am dubious, but feel
compelled to work up a 1-gallon batch of "sugar wort" (not cane sugar, but
perhaps rice syrup or dextrose), adopt a devil-may-care attitude, and see
what happens. Anyone care to throw in some advice?

Also, I'm interested in building a hopback ala Norm Pyle's description, but
I need a source for heat-resistant, brewery-safe, flexible hose. Anyone have
a lead?

Email is welcome.
'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`''`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
Ed Meeks (emeeks at tx.ncsu.edu)  "Won't you please tell the man I didn't hurt
anyone, no I'm just tryin' to have me some fun." --John Prine
'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`~~


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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 11:40:05 EST
From: sims at scra.org (Jim Sims)
Subject: (from misc.jobs.offered) Looking for Brewmeister - Erie, PA

> 
> The Uniform Resource Locator for this document is:
> gopher://services.canberra.edu.au:4320/0nntp%20article%20misc.jobs.offered%
> 
> Organization: Penn State University
> Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 10:16:55 EST
> From: <JLW109 at psuvm.psu.edu>
> Message-ID: <94040.101655JLW109 at psuvm.psu.edu>
> Newsgroups: alt.beer,rec.crafts.brewing,misc.jobs.offered
> Subject: Brewmaster and Restauranteur for brewpub in Erie, PA
> Lines: 13
> 
>   We are opening a brewpub in Erie, PA and are looking to hire a brewmaster
> and restauranteur to handle the day to day operation of the brewpub.  This
> is a startup operation and we are currently planning on opening in the
> August/September time frame.  If you are interested or have questions, please
> e-mail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> Jason Williams
> 
> will22 at eetsg22.bd.psu.edu
> .



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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 12:07:42 EST
From: WIESEN at VAX2.DNET.ICD.Teradyne.COM (Dan `Hefe' Wiesen)
Subject: looking for homebrew stores in s. NH

As a new resident of southern New Hampshire (Raymond), I was wondering
where the local (~50 mi radius) homebrew shops were.  I would also 
appreciate sources for a Cajun Cooker style propane burner.  Thanks for 
the help.  Private email would be just spiffy.

dan

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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 12:19:28 EST
From: bszymcz%ulysses at relay.nswc.navy.mil (Bill Szymczak)
Subject: DMS production

In HBD1350 Al wrote:

>quickly: Dimethyl Sulfide (DMS).  When the wort is above 140F, DMS is being
>created.  While the wort is boiling, the DMS is boiled off.  Once you turn
>off the heat, the DMS still is being produced till the wort cools below 140F.
>If you're making an ale, the fermenation will probably be so vigorous that
>whatever DMS was created, will probably be scrubbed out by the CO2.  If you
>are making a lager, the fermentation will be quite a bit slower and this is
>why a small amount of DMS in a lager is part of the character of most lagers.

I remember hearing or reading somewhere that ales are less 
suseptible to DMS primarily due to the higher kilning
temperatures of pale ale malt which ``drives off'' some of the
sulphur compounds which are precursors to DMS. Pilsener or lager
malts are generally kilned at lower temperatures and DMS is more
of a problem.  

Bill Szymczak
bszymcz at ulysses.nswc.navy.mil


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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 11:36:06 -0600
From: dmorey at iastate.edu
Subject: Wheat Beer, is it just the yeast?  I don't think so!

Hi!

	I have just a couple data points to add to wheat beer
discussion.  The last beer my roomate brewed (sad that it was so long
ago) was an *American Wheat*.  The recipe looks as the following:

8 lbs pale 6-row
3 lbs wheat
1 oz N. Brewer (1 hour)
1/2 oz Hallertauer (1 hour)
1/2 oz Hallertauer (10 minutes)
Nottingham Dry Ale Yeast. ????

	In this recipe, wheat made 27% of total grist.  I would note
that this beer was fermented warm (77F).  The beer was very tart and
had hints of cloves in the nose.  I have also made an *American Wheat*
(about year and a half ago) with wheat making 43% of the grist,
fermented with Nottingham dry ale yeast at cooler temperatures (62F).
This beer had the very same characteristics, tart with a hint of
clove!  I still beleive that the yeast plays the greatest role in
producing this clove character, but I believe that the wheat plays a
large role in this flavor than generally accepted in homebrew
circles.  One final note, a group of brewer's in my homebrew club did
a not so scientific study of the affects of yeast.  One yeast, EDME
dry, produced a wheaty characteristic (though the beers brewed where
not wheat beers).  Any comments?

==========================================================================
 Dan A. Morey		|   Wine is proof that God loves us and wants to
 dmorey at iastate.edu	|   see us happy.  - B. Franklin
 Agricultural Process 	|
 Engineer		|   The same is true for BEER!  - Me
==========================================================================



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Date: 15 Feb 94 12:34:38 EST
From: William A Kuhn <73472.1664 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: pH and water chemistry HELP

I have a quick question concerning adjusting pH and ion content of our local 
water supply. Though we have successfully brewed many styles of ale 
(IPA-Stout) with our water (in its undoctored form - it seems that the 
buffering power of the malt has seen us through), I am still concerned that 
using our water in its "as is" form is far from the best course.  

Here is the profile of our water:

 Calcium:       91 ppm          Sulfate:        260 ppm
 Bicarbonate:   220 ppm         Sodium:         43 ppm
 Chloride:      13 ppm          Potasium:       24 ml/L
 Flouride:      0.5 ppm         Silicate:       20 ppm
 Magnesium:     41 ppm          Nitrite:        0.4 ppm
 Manganese      54 ppm          Nitrate:        0.4 ppm
        Chlorophorm 30 ppb (note parts per billion)
                        pH 7.2-7.5

(Levels of copper, Iron, Lead, Nickel, Tin, Zinc & Chlorophenols are trace)

How can we best treat our water for brewing pale ale?  The level of 
bicarbonate is quite high, and the level of calcium is not high enough to 
cause the bicarbonate and calcium to react and percipitate out during a pre 
brew boil. Can we use lactic acid to lower our bicarbonate level? (Gypsum is 
out because of our already high sulfate count)
Is the current level of sulfate problematic? 

How would this treatment change if we were brewing a brown ale or a pilsner 
(repectively)?


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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 12:32:41 EST
From: "Paul Austin (8-293-5810 or (914))" <huckfinn at vnet.IBM.COM>
Subject: Cat's Meow on Macintosh 800K disk/

I would like to get a copy of the Cat's Meow on a Macintosh 800K
disk.  Due to the way I get to the Internet, this is not possible.
I also lack the hardware to do it myself.

Is there someone out there willing to put the document (text only)
on a Mac 800K disk and send it to me?  I will even send you the
disk with return postage.  If you live in the Mid Hudson Valley
area (Kingston, specifically), or are an IBMer, that's even
better - less postage and I can send a thank-you gift.


Thanks,
Paul Austin
huckfinn at vnet.ibm.com

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Date: 15 Feb 1994 09:53:09 PST
From: "JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR" <JSDAWS1 at PB1.PacBell.COM>
Subject: institutional exclusionism

well... with all the 'intellectual discussion' :)  about a women-only homebrew
competition, I've reached the conclusion that the solution is to formalize
the concept by having exclusionist competitions for every possible minority.

How about a senior citizens only homebrew comp.   A competition open only
to the physically challenged, or a lesbian/gay only comp would create lots
of opportunities for brewers, and for PC flamers as well.  All of these
groups seem under-represented at homebrew competions I've attended.

The only real result I can see from such competitions is more people brewing
better beer.   hmmmm.... have I missed something ?

|    Don't anthropomorphize computers...  They don't like it.         |
| ------------------------------------------------------------------- |
| JACK DAWSON  -  JSDAWS1  -  415 545-0299  -  CUSTOMER BILLING  (BG) |

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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 13:30:50 EST
From: btalk at aol.com
Subject: Coleman BTU

Coleman stove output, FYI:
Powerhouse burners, set on 11 inch centers, 9k btu on main burner, 8k btu on
auxiliary. 2 hr burn time w/both on high.
Compact models have 7500 btu on main, 6500 on aux. spaced 9 5/16  inch
center. Also 2 hr burn w both full blast.
The Coleman Peak 1 stoves generally put out 8500 btu. These are the single
burner backpacking models that can boil 1 qt water in about 4.5 min.  I don't
know if this can be extrapolated into time for larger volume.
There are Dual Fuel versions of all these that burn Coleman fuel and car
gasoline. 
If you burn car gas in a single fuel stove , your generator life mileage will
vary(shorten).
Bob 'The Backpacking Tech Weenie' Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY

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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 10:48:01 PST
From: Jack St Clair <Jack_St_Clair at ccm.hf.intel.com>
Subject: Rhinocerous Stout


Text item: Text_1

     Some of you may remember my post awhile back regarding Rhinoceros 
     Stout that was (note, I said was) available at he Oakhills Brewpub 
     here in Portland.  They have stopped brewing it for now but have 
     assured me that it would be back.  Anyway, I was able to get the 
     recipe and want to give it a try.  The problem is that the recipe 
     is for a 220 gallon batch.  I was told that the yeast used is a 
     special yeast made up by Wyeast for McMenamins Pubs and that the 
     same yeast is used for all their beers. Although I find that hard 
     to believe.
     
     Here are the ingredients for a 220 gal. batch.
     
     Malts
     ----------------------------
     1.) 300 lbs. - 2-Row
     2.)  30 lbs. - Vienna
     3.)  25 lbs. - Victory
     4.)  25 lbs. - Black Barley
     5.)  25 lbs. - Hugh Baird Brown 
     
     Hops
     ----------------------------
     1.) 1.5 lbs. - Cent (?)
     2.)  .5 lbs. - Cent (Finishing)
     
     My questions are:
     1.   How do I extrapolate this for a five gallon batch?
     2.   Does anyone out there in brewland have a phone number/contact  
          at Wyeast?
     3.   What is the best way to gather yeast from the bottom of a      
          container? (Which is what I might have to do should phone call 
          fail.)
     4.   What is meant by Cent.?
     
     Any help from the HBD Brewmeisters will be greatly appreciated and 
     final results will be posted.  This stout is one of the finest I 
     have ever tasted.  It ranks right up there with (please God don't 
     strike this fine Irish head dead) Guinness Stout!
     
     TIA
     Jack St.Clair
     Portland, Oregon
     Jack_st_clair at ccm.hf.intel.com
     

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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 1994 13:42:59 -0500
From: rprice at cbmse.nrl.navy.mil
Subject:  Cookers etc.

1)  Following the trend on cookers,  if you check Sams Club (usual
disclaimer), you will often find not only the cajun cookes but another crab
cooker version about 35,000 btu.  They run around $75.00, and come
complete with a 7 gal pot (alum) for about $100.00.  Many propane
stores have 35,000 btu hobs for about $30.00 or so.  Simply connect to a
20#er and you are brewing cheap.

2)  By using a piece of 4" PVC pipe about two foot long, 40' of copper
tube 3/8" in diameter, some RTV-11 sealant and a couple of reducers
from a 4" down to PVC garden hose fittings you can make a chiller for
not too much.  On the output side go from the copper up to threaded
fittings and into a regular cartridge water filter.  You can easily remove
trub, excess yeast and hops.  Get the cheap wound filter to do this
cheap.  The PVC then necks down from 4" to 2" then 2" to 3/3" then to
the garden hose adapter.  I bought the stuff at a hardware center and
put it together in about a half hour.

3)  A comment:  I don't know what all the fuss is about women in
brewing etc.  In England in times past the women were expected to be
expert homebrew persons.  That was considered part of housekeeping. 
I really wish my wife would have picked up the interest or skills
necessary.  However, I do 99% of the cooking and the brewing.  Did I
miss somthing ?  I tried to get her interested in the womens contest
(answer)  <thats your job>  ......  Chill out and enjoy and lets get on to
more of the type of conversations that will make us all better brewers.
Like who believes that you can increase the sweetness and malt
character of an all grain brew by increasing the temp to about 70C and
shortening the mash time which would favor alpha enzymes?????


Cheers !!




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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 13:57:51 EST
From: Steve Scampini <scampini at hp-and.an.hp.com>
Subject: CO2 Technique

I have been thinking about the process of yeast-driven in-the-bottle
carbonation and wondering about the various techniques.  It seems
the common practice is to use corn sugar but that some use 
DME or even wort.  
I am surprised that otherwise fanatical brewers would "adulterate"
their beer in the final step with corn sugar - or do the benefits
outweigh the problems.  I though it might be interesting to bottle
a solution corresponding to the dilution of 3/4 cup corn sugar in
five gallons of water with a little yeast and let the water carbonate
and then taste it.  This might give an indication of the contribution
of any corn sugar based flavors to the beer.  Or am I all wet?

What do the commercial world class bottle conditioned beers do to
get their carbonation?  Thanks in advance.

Steve Scampini

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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 14:32:02 EST
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: re: cancel

You've got to send the 'cancel article nnnnnnnnnnn.nnnnnnnn' message
to the homebrew-request address, folks.  With most mailers, replying
to the confirmation message should do the right thing.

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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 94 08:15:33 -0800
From: raudins at elan2.coryphaeus.com (Glenn Raudins)
Subject: Bay Area BJCP Exam


  A couple of us are working on putting together enough people to have a
  BJCP exam in the SF Bay Area.  If anyone is interested in participating
  in the exam, please E-mail me at raudins at Elan2.coryphaeus.com  so as to
  not waste the bandwidth, since we don't seem to be doing any of that
  lately!!!

Glenn Raudins raudins at Elan2.coryphaeus.com  Los Gatos, CA


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1351, 02/17/94