HOMEBREW Digest #1357 Thu 24 February 1994

Digest #1356 Digest #1358


	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  sdf (korz)
  Unsmacked Wyeast (Domenick Venezia)
  bulk malt extract? (Russell Kofoed)
  Coolers (Jim King)
  BrewPubs in America - THE LIST ("DEREK J. SHEEHAN")
  Cream Stout Recipe? (Mike Slowik)
  ginger (Dick Dunn)
  Re: REcipe Newcastle Brown (Conn Copas)
  RECIPE: Milhous Irish Alt (Bill Nixon)
  RECIPE: Milhous Light Ale (Bill Nixon)
  RECIPE: Milhous Alt (Bill Nixon)
  beginner brewing ("Eric J. Wickham")
  Suggestion #4593949394858 (Jeff Frane)
  Adding Molasses (Cisco)
  Re: Grassy, hay-like flavor (Josh Grosse)
  homebrewery construction/homebrewing for the non-technical/THEM (npyle)
  Re: What makes Guinness Creamy? (Steven Tollefsrud)
  33 qt enamel on steel pots (Michael Inglis)
  Non Technical Brewing (Tim Anderson)
  Cooking vs Rocket Science (Jeff Benjamin)
  long-lived liquid yeast ("FRED WALTER : ASTRONOMY, SUNY STONY BROOK, 516-632-8232")
  Drilling of Stainless, Al Pots, Copper Ions ("Palmer.John")
  Re: Cajun Cookers (Drew Lynch)
  Brewing cabinets (8-293-5810 or (914))" <huckfinn at vnet.IBM.COM>
  hop aroma/flavor (btalk)
  Contamination? (David Killian)
  Bigfoot Barleywine Recipes (William Sampson)
  cheap carboys - where? (dan_fox)
  that scum on top..... (dan_fox)
  Thanks, one and all (dan_fox)
  Re: Advice Needed (Mike Mitten)
  Wyeast's Brettanomyces (Gary S. Kuyat)
  Re: Oxygen Absorbing Caps (Tim P McNerney)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Feb 94 18:33 CST From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: sdf Domenick writes: >My last all-grain batch, an ESB dry hopped 4 days with 1oz/5gal Kent >Goldings, has a grassy haylike flavor tone. One opinion is that I >scorched the wort, but there was no scorching on the bottom of the brew >kettle, and I don't perceive the flavor as burnt. Any ideas? 2 hour mash > at 157-153, no mashout, OG: 1.056, FG 1.010, 8.5lbs Maris Otter, 8oz each >of flaked maize, crystal, cara-pils. Sparged cloudy (Nurse! Nurse! More >patience, please), brew is cloudy too. The grassyness could be from stale grain, certain types of bacterial infections (which could also make the brew cloudy) or from stale hops. The cloudy sparge implies that perhaps you sparged too hot -- too hot a sparge (too much over 170F) will liberate unconverted starch from the grain. If indeed the cloudy sparge was from too hot a sparge water, then the beer too has a starch haze. ******** Mark writes: >In my book, I *will* have a fairly lengthy (but not >difficult) formula that I think does a better job of >getting a brewer in the ballpark. It is lengthy because >it attempts to account for more of the variables in the >brewing process. The simple formulas can be way off the >farther the beer and brewing conditions are from "median" >brewing styles. For a median beer style, the simple >formulas and my lengthy one are likely to have about the >same error percentages. But the more complicated formula >should more or less keep the same percentage error as >the beer moves away from median since the formula attempts >to correct for the shift. The simpler formulas don't, >so the errors will get larger. I fear that if your hop utilization formula will have a similar complexity to your hop freshness formulas, then nobody will use them. I agree with Dave Miller that the errors in the formulas can add up, but disagree that the result is a useless number. As you later wrote, you need to get into the ballpark and then adjust based upon your system. I've simply been using Ragers numbers, adding 10% if I use whole hops and 10% more if I use a hop bag (which is always) and the bitterness comes out just as I expect it to. All this with a variety of yeasts, hop varieties, and a few other variables. Constants were: the hop bags. the kettle geometry, the burner, the fermenter geometry, grain supplier and virtually all of my procedures. >Bottom line: Even complicated formulas are nothing more than guesses. Then why supply a complicated formula in this illusive book you keep ADVERTISING on the HBD? **** Drew writes: >Siphoning from carboys: I racked my alt from a plastic pail >to a glass carboy after 9 days. My problem came when I >tried to siphon from the carboy into the bottling bucket. >I could not use the Papazian method of a hose full of >water (can't fit the hose with thumb over end into the >carboy neck). Is the only option to gargle with Baccardi >151 and hope for the best or am I missing some relatively >easy solution for mouth-bacteria-free siphoning? You're missing a little physics, which is not particulary intuitive. You are putting your thumb over the wrong end. Actually, I don't recommend you use your thumb at all -- use a pinch-type hose clamp to shut off the "out" end of the sanitized hose, filled with water and then dip the other end (a racking cane helps keep the hose at the bottom without sucking up yeast) into the carboy. Keep the "out" end lower than the level of the beer in the "in" vessel and open the clamp. >Alt Lagering: At the moment, the alt is sitting quietly >in the dark in the basement at around 64F (in bottles). >Should this beer be in a fridge? What are the benefits >(I used Wyeast #1007 ale yeast)? Is it necessary to get >close to the style of beer I am trying to replicate? I've never quite understood the benefits of lagering until I finally did a bock. It had all kinds of off aromas and flavors for 3.5 months in the bottle (at 40F) and then finally at 4 months, everything came together into a wonderful beer. I don't know how lagering an ale will change it's flavor -- I've never tried making an Alt or a Koelsch, but I suggest you start lagering it and see how the flavor changes. Even if I knew how the flavor would change, I'll bet I could not put it into words. 1007 is actually a Koelsch yeast and will give you a much drier beer than a true Alt. I've long thought that 1007 (German Ale) was an Alt yeast until Roger Deschner pointed out that it is actually a Koelsch yeast quite recently. Alts are supposed to be much sweeter and maltier than the 1007 will allow -- Wyeast European Ale (#1338) is an Alt yeast. >AHA Competition: (I know, I know, pretty plucky for a >novice extract brewer, but...) If one enters such a >competition (by mail), does one get back the judges >scorecards and remarks? This is the only reason I >am considering entering -- I need some real homebrew >experts to give me some further guidance. My friends Oh yes. Feedback, I believe, is the best reason for entering a competition, not ribbons. You will always get your scoresheets back from a reputably run AHA Sanctioned competition and probably from 99.9% of the non-AHA Sanctioned ones too. ******* Bob writes: - I saw a 22-quart stainless steel pot in a store but am wondering if this will be large enough for boiling my final product? <snip> Also will a conventional electric stove do the trick as far as boiling my wort in a pot of this volume? If it won't are there any suggestions out there as to what I can buy to do this boiling without breaking me financially? An 8 gallon kettle is just about the minimum size for a 5 gallon batch. You will have to boil about 7 gallons of runnings down to 5 gallons of wort. An enameled pot can be used and I've seen 8 gallon ones reasonably priced, but don't use the handles to lift it when full!!!! You can use an electric stove, but your brew day will be much longer than if you had a hotter heat source. I used electric heat up until two years ago and it just takes much longer to get things up to temperature. - To perform my mashing I have read that some people use a picnic cooler. I intend to do the single temperature mashing since I have heard good things about this type of mashing. Is there any other type of container I could use for single-temp mashing besides the plastic pail mentioned previously? Any food-grade plastic container will work, but you want to insulate it somehow so it doesn't loose too much heat during the mash. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 16:48:15 -0800 (PST) From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at ZGI.COM> Subject: Unsmacked Wyeast Does anyone remember a post or short thread about using Wyeast "unsmacked"? Just cut the poach open and inoculate your starter. Does anyone do this? One of ZGI's resident yeast experts plated a smacked pack of 1028 a while back (couple months) and it came up with substantial contamination with some sort of chained coccus (unless it's E.Coli we're pretty weak in bacteria. Guesses are welcome). Chris is convinced the contamination is real and not a lab problem. I have high regard for his opinion and lab skills and believe him. Anyone else done/found/suspect the same? The question then arises, was it the Wyeast culture or the wort? And that is the reason for the opening question. Domenick Venezia ZymoGenetics, Inc. Seattle, WA venezia at zgi.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 17:16:42 -0800 (PST) From: Russell Kofoed <kofoedr at elwha.evergreen.edu> Subject: bulk malt extract? Howdy folks, my locol food cooperative has a dark malted barley syrup available in bulk. It costs about a dollar a pound. I was wondering how differerent this stuff is from the beermaking malts available at the homebrew store-for a lot more $. Has anybody made beer using this sort of malt syrup? Any suggestions? Thanks in advance. Russell Kofoed kofoedr at elwha.evergreen.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 94 08:25:00 -0800 From: jim.king at kandy.com (Jim King) Subject: Coolers H>I just got the 1994 catalog from Superior Products and there are a H>couple of items in there that I thought might be of interest: H> H>pg 30: 10 gal Coleman water coolers H> 1-C-310 Red $33.50 H> 1-C-312 Blue $33.50 You can usually get the 52 quart cooler at Target for under $20. Don't ask me why the 52 quart cost less than the 10 gallon. I don't know, but I'm not complaining. The other advantage is that 1/2 inch flexible tubing fits out the spout snugly and water tight. 02/21/94 08:20 Jim King jim.king at kandy.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 20:54:16 MST From: "DEREK J. SHEEHAN" <uchtlds at earth.oscs.montana.edu> Subject: BrewPubs in America - THE LIST Hey people! I have been reading this list for about a month now and I have some general comments to share: 1. I think that all of the talk about finding brewpubs to visit (or plan a trip arond) is SILLY. Most cyberspace people are from universities. This implies that there are LIBRARIES close at hand. Well, I did everyone's homework. Get over to the library and find the "The Brewer's Digest." This is the trade magazine for the brewing industry. Every year they publish a complete listing of breweries and brewpubs listed by state. They also list ALL BEERS brewed in the US and abroad. The October 1993 issue has a great article on hops that everyone will find interesting. 2. What is the crime for fermenting in plastic buckets? I do and I get excellent results. They are easy to store and clean. It seems that there are a lot of people who don't like plastic buckets. I would like to see some posting for this reason. Beware! I am a chemist and I firmly don't believe a plastic surface that is between 1 and 2 mm thick can transport any detectable amount of oxygen. In fact, I am planning to start brewing in 16 and 24 oz. plastic Coke bottles. Any feeling on either of these two plastic subjects? Thanks for the bandwidth! Derek Sheehan uchtlds at earth.oscs.montana.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 94 23:19:50 EST From: Mike Slowik <SLOWIK%UCONNVM.bitnet at YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu> Subject: Cream Stout Recipe? I am forever searching for a good Cream Stout recipe (the closer to Sam Adams cream stout the better). I checked the catsmeow2 already, no luck. I would greatly appreciate any help.... Mike Slowik SLOWIK at UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU Return to table of contents
Date: 22 Feb 94 21:32:16 MST (Tue) From: rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn) Subject: ginger Just to reassure folks who like ginger but might be timorous about adding too much to a beer... We experimented a lot in years gone by. For an amber ale, we did various batches in the range of a few up to 12 oz of fresh ginger root for a five- gallon batch, eventually settling on 8-10 oz depending on the strength of the ale. The higher end (12 oz) wasn't "too much" ginger; it just didn't balance with the body of the ale. We put a full pound in a mead (OG effectively just under 1.100) and we didn't feel it was too much. It did take a couple months to settle down from "startling" to "intriguing". It's a ginger-lover's drink, and an excellent companion to Hunan-style food. My only caution is that these quantities are for folks who *like* ginger. - --- Dick Dunn rcd at eklektix.com -or- raven!rcd Boulder, Colorado USA ...Mr Natural says, "Get the right tool for the job!" Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 11:44:18 GMT From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk> Subject: Re: REcipe Newcastle Brown My thoughts on replicating Newcy Brown: aim for sweetness (FG of 10-15) and moderate bitterness (ie, a non brown ale amount of Northern Brewer). Other essential ingredients: a high diacetyl yeast, at least 1 lb of brown sugar, and caramel to achieve the desired colour. Happy hangover :-) Conn V Copas C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 07:32:29 -0500 From: Bill Nixon <sxuwan at fnma.COM> Subject: RECIPE: Milhous Irish Alt Milhous Irish Alt Ingredients (for 5 gallons) 8 pounds, Mountmellick Irish unhopped amber malt extract 1 oz, Bullion hop pellets (7.6 alpha) 2 oz, Mount Hood pellets (3.9 alpha) (1 oz boil, 1 oz finish) 1/3 cup, chocolate malt (cracked) 1/8 cup, bulk patent malt (cracked) 3/4 cup, crystal malt (cracked) 2 pkgs, Muton and Fison ale yeast (7g each) 3/4 cup, corn sugar (to bottle) Procedure Add cracked grains to 3 gallons of cold water and heat. Once boiling, remove grains. Add extract and all but 1 oz of Mount Hood hops and boil for 1 hour. Add 1 oz Mount Hood hops during the last 10 minutes of the boil. Combine with cold water to make 5 gallons, cool and pitch yeast at 75 degrees. Ferment until completion and bottle with corn sugar. Comments This was modeled after my Milhous Alt, but I couldn't find any Ireks extract. It turned out with a thicker taste due to the higher volume of extract and with an unique taste. Besides, I wanted to blend the german alt style with the irish to match my own ethnic background. - --- bnixon at fnma.com or uunet!fnma.com!bnixon (NeXT Mail Okay) Bill Nixon, SIS, Systems & Operations Management Development FannieMae, 3900 Wisconsin Ave NW, Washington, DC 22016 (202) 752-5468 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 07:32:39 -0500 From: Bill Nixon <sxuwan at fnma.COM> Subject: RECIPE: Milhous Light Ale Milhous Light Ale Ingredients (for 5 gallons) 3.5 pounds, Laaglander extra light DME 12 oz, clover honey 1 oz, Fuggle hop pellets (2.6 alpha) 1/2 oz, Centennial hop pellets 1 oz, Hallertau hop pellets (3.8 alpha) (finish) 1/3 cup, chocolate malt (cracked) 1/3 cup, bulk patent malt (cracked) 1 pkg, #1056 Wyeast 3/4 cup, corn sugar (to bottle) Procedure Add cracked grains and honey to 3 gallons of cold water and heat. Once boiling, remove grains. Add extract and all but 1 oz of Hallertau hops and boil for 1 hour. Add 1 oz Hallertau hops during the last 10 minutes of the boil. Combine with cold water to make 5 gallons, cool and pitch yeast at 75 degrees. Ferment until completion and bottle with corn sugar. Comments This was modeled after a Goldenflower Ale recipe from "The Cat's Meow". It turned out to be a great light summer ale with a taste better than most commercial American beers. Low alcohol, low cost, less filling, and tastes great. - --- bnixon at fnma.com or uunet!fnma.com!bnixon (NeXT Mail Okay) Bill Nixon, SIS, Systems & Operations Management Development FannieMae, 3900 Wisconsin Ave NW, Washington, DC 22016 (202) 752-5468 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 07:32:19 -0500 From: Bill Nixon <sxuwan at fnma.COM> Subject: RECIPE: Milhous Alt Milhous Alt Ingredients (for 5 gallons) 6.6 pounds, Ireks Amber malt extract 1 oz, Northern Brewer hop pellets (7.4 alpha) 2 oz, Hallertau hop pellets (3.8 alpha) 1/3 cup, chocolate malt (cracked) 1/8 cup, bulk patent malt (cracked) 3/4 cup, crystal malt (cracked) 2 pkgs, Muton and Fison ale yeast (7g each) 3/4 cup, corn sugar (to bottle) Procedure Add cracked grains to 3 gallons of cold water and heat. Once boiling, remove grains. Add extract and hops and boil for 1 hour. Comments This was my second batch of homebrew and really turned out well. It had a very hoppy flavor with just the right bitterness for my taste. The cracked grains led to a nice copper color. Some drinkers compared it to Washington DC's Old Heurich. For my next batch, I plan to reserve some of the hops and add them during the last 5 minutes of the boil or dry hopping. Combine with cold water to make 5 gallons, cool and pitch yeast at 75 degrees. Ferment until completion and bottle with corn sugar. Specifics O.G., 1.038 F.G., 1.014 - --- bnixon at fnma.com or uunet!fnma.com!bnixon (NeXT Mail Okay) Bill Nixon, SIS, Systems & Operations Management Development FannieMae, 3900 Wisconsin Ave NW, Washington, DC 22016 (202) 752-5468 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 09:38:34 EST From: "Eric J. Wickham" <34R7ENG at CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> Subject: beginner brewing What would be required for someone to brew beer. Is there a kit that can be purchased? Reading some of the postings it seems that it is quite technical. Is there a simple way of brewing. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 07:11:02 -0800 (PST) From: gummitch at teleport.com (Jeff Frane) Subject: Suggestion #4593949394858 Please note the name of this thingie you get in the e-mail. It is the "Homebrew" Digest. I realize that a previous suggestion that pub lists and requests for pub lists go elsewhere got negative responses but the digest is a lot busier, and a lot more crowded these days. So again: take it elsewhere. Requests, yes. But let's keep the answers to e-mail or send the person (as someone did, correctly) to the right place for the existing list. - --Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 08:11:44 -0700 (MST) From: Cisco <FRANCISCO at osmo.CCIT.Arizona.EDU> Subject: Adding Molasses > From: David Killian <dkillian at memh.ti.com> > I'm pretty new to the world of brewing, only a handful of > batches under my belt, but I was wondering about the affect > that molasses would have (say 1-2cups) when introduced at the > same time the malt extract is added to the wort (soon to be). > If using a amber malt, would it darken it, make it more bitter > or more sweet? Pappazian mentions it adds a buttery flavor, > but makes no further mention of it. > I usually add 1/4 cup of molasses to my English style ales and it adds a very distinct yet suttle flavor. I would not recommend adding a larger amount since the flavor would be overwhelming and I doubt very much that you would enjoy it. You can even detect 1/4 cup in a strong stout if you know what residual flavors molasses leaves in a fermented ale. So if you want to play with molasses I'ld recommend trying it in 1/4 cup increments in several batches. John 'Cisco' Francisco Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 07:46 PST From: jdg00 at juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Josh Grosse) Subject: Re: Grassy, hay-like flavor In HBD 1355, Domenick Venezia asked: >My last all-grain batch, an ESB dry hopped 4 days with 1oz/5gal Kent >Goldings, has a grassy haylike flavor tone.... I recall from a recent judging study session that this is mowed-lawn flavor is one of the Higher Molecular Alcohols (HMAs). Yeah, it could be one of the many weird hop produced compounds. Excessive or incorrect HMAs are typically caused by too high a fermentation temperature. Yes, ales have HMAs in them normally, because they combine with fatty acids to produce esters. But too high a temp will cause this sort of thing. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Josh Grosse jdg00 at juts.ccc.amdahl.com Amdahl Corp. joshua.grosse at amail.amdahl.com Southfield, Michigan 810-348-4440 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 9:00:07 MST From: npyle at n33.stortek.com Subject: homebrewery construction/homebrewing for the non-technical/THEM Joel Teague - all I can say is quit rubbing it in! OK, I can say more. A while ago someone posted and received replies on building the ultimate brewery in his basement. Of course, he's probably down there brewing now instead of reading the HBD. Good luck on this venture. This could be more fun than...eating chocolate. ** Laura Conrad makes some good points about brewing books being too technical, but I'd like to discuss some of her arguments. First of all, there are loads of people out there who can't seem to manage understanding a cookbook. So the cookbook writers have chosen to assume a level of technical knowledge above this group of people. You have to draw the line somewhere. Many of the writers of brewing books have built nice, complex, interesting breweries and they therefore probably qualify as techno-weenies (I fit in here somewhere, on the low end of this group). Anyway, techno-weenies aren't likely to be very good at writing for the masses; its just they way they are. Also, I believe that brewing beer is a more complex process than baking bread (sourdough excepted), therefore requires a more difficult procedure. I'm talking about making all-grain beer vs. bread from scratch. Baking bread requires you to grind grain, mix with water (at a very rough temperature range - i.e. warm) and yeast (the yeast type and bacteria count/type are not critical because of the short time the yeast is allowed to work - less than 2 hours), let it rise, punch it down, let it rise, and bake. Brewing beer requires you to grind grain, mix with water (at a much more precise temperature +- about 10F), let it sit, rinse with water, boil, add hops, cool, add yeast (the yeast type and bacteria count/type are crucial because the yeast will work for weeks), let it ferment, move it to a serving container, and carbonate it. Now I'm sure I've insulted some bread lovers out there but I think it is clear that brewing beer is not a simple process. The steps I describe are the most basic steps for making a simple beer. Better beer requires more attention to detail and a more complex procedure. My point is that brewing beer requires a certain level of technical knowledge, and to do it right, which is what the homebrew book writers intend, you either need to have this knowledge or gain this knowledge through some reading. One more thing, measuring SG via the boiling point of the liquid is impractical from a time standpoint and would make an interesting chart when you include elevation, as the cookbooks usually do. Please don't take this as a diatribe; it is meant as a polite disagreement.. ** JJ asks: >I understand that legally we're limited to 200 gallons per household. >Who keeps track of this? What do they do to you if you exceed your >allotment? >How do they *know*? (whoever 'they' is; I don't mean to sound paranoid...) >These are all hypothetical questions; my husband and I couldn't possibly >drink >200 gallons of anything in a year. Why, They keep track of it, of course. If you exceed your allotment? You don't want to know what They'll do. They have ways of knowing. Don't even think about it! Paranoiacly yours, Norm Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 16:54:27 +0100 From: vlsisj!fleurie!steve_t at uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com (Steven Tollefsrud) Subject: Re: What makes Guinness Creamy? David Berman writes: >I've had several homebrewed stouts and porters and none are creamy and >rich tasting the way Guinness is...what makes Guinness creamy? Draft Guinness is usually dispensed using a Nitrogen/CO2 mixture. This is what gives you that beautiful dense creamy "mousse". Steve Tollefsrud VLSI Technology, Sophia Antipolis, France e-mail: steve_t at fleurie.compass.fr Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 08:20:30 PST From: mri10 at mfg.amdahl.com (Michael Inglis) Subject: 33 qt enamel on steel pots <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 94 22:28:02 GMT From: mcb at mcdpxs.phx.mcd.mot.com (Mark Bellefeuille) Subject: 33 qt enamel on steel pots I was in an outlet store yesterday. It had 2nd's of enamel on steel pots all sizes. I bought a 33qt for $17.99. It had a obvious run in the enamel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just a follow-up on this post in case anyone is interested... I also got my all-grain pots at a Chicago Cutlery outlet store. For anyone in the Bay Area, the outlet is in the Gilroy outlet center off of 101. Mike Inglis mri10 at mfg.amdahl.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 08:57:14 PST From: tima at wv.MENTORG.COM (Tim Anderson) Subject: Non Technical Brewing Laura Conrad suggests a cookbook-style brewing book. Laura, I have a comment on that, "YES!!!" Actually, I would guess that a large segment of the brewing population takes a decidedly non-technical approach to making good beer. I would also guess that the segment represented by HBD is badly skewed toward AR techno- nerds who routinely worry about insignificant digits. Personally, the last time I used my hydrometer was about three years ago and I don't miss it a bit. My approach to beer is similar to my approach to spaghetti sauce (I recommend omitting the tomatoes for the beer, though). Write the book, Laura. I'll buy it. tim Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 10:13:39 MST From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com> Subject: Cooking vs Rocket Science Laura Conrad suggests a "how to brew" book that sticks to well-known cooking terminology. Overall, it's a good idea. I try to treat my own brewing more like cooking than biochemistry, and people have brewed for hundreds of years without any scientific schooling, hydrometers, or even decent thermometers. However, a good cookbook will provide all the tips and tricks it can to increase the beginner's (and the pro's) chances of success. I, for one, would not encourage a beginner to brew without a hydrometer. It's no more difficult to use than a thermometer, and can help avoid mistakes with serious consequences ("Case of homebrew explodes, destroying half of downtown Newbyville. Film at eleven."). Much of the technical info on the digest, and in books, could be skipped for the first-time brewer (water chemistry, etc.). Procedures could be simplified (like my first all-grain batch!). In fact, how many times have you seen people post "I've read Papazian, Miller, et al and am still confused"? I'd say there's room in the market for another "how to brew" book :-). But I wouldn't avoid the "scientific" techniques entirely, intimidating as they may be. The scientific mindset was probably fostered by the growth of mega-breweries in the last century and by a certain Danish biologist. This led to the high-quality, consistent products that most of us are used to drinking and want to duplicate; a little science can go a long way to helping the homebrewer achieve that same quality. - -- Jeff Benjamin benji at hpfcla.fc.hp.com Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado "Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium." - T.S. Eliot P.S. I think there are some other non-technical factors that make brewing intimidating. One is batch size -- 5 gal is a lot of anything to make at once, unless you have a family of 20. Another is expense -- an all-malt extract batch can cost $30, a not insignificant sum if it's undrinkable. No wonder people worry about getting it right! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 12:14:49 -0500 (EST) From: "FRED WALTER : ASTRONOMY, SUNY STONY BROOK, 516-632-8232" <FWALTER at astro.sunysb.edu> Subject: long-lived liquid yeast Last winter (1993) I purchased a package of WYeast American Lager Yeast (dated 1 January). I never got around to using it before the basement warmed up to ale temperatures, so it remained at the back of the fridge. Last month I decided to see if it was still viable. Recalling past posts that refrigerated yeast could last a few months, I had low expectations. Nevertheless, within a week of popping the package, it had swollen to full size. The solution is now bubbling away in a starter. Moral: some liquid yeast can survive 13 months under refrigerated conditions. Return to table of contents
Date: 23 Feb 1994 09:30:26 U From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com> Subject: Drilling of Stainless, Al Pots, Copper Ions Heres the thread, >>I also bought 1/2" and 1/8" cobalt bit$ do drill my half inch hole. Good thing I went with epoxy cuz the hole I drill didn't look to pretty. It took HOURS and I went through almost 4 fully charged packs on my 12V Makita. Stainless is definitely TOUGH SHIT to drill.... >I have heard this before, but I have found SS to be as easy to drill as anything. I have gone right through it with standard cheap drill bits. What's the story here? Metallurgists speak! (please). Mr. Metallurgist says: :^) I really don't know why it was so hard for Rick to drill his keg. 300 series stainless should be easy to drill unless its galling (sticking/gumming up). I have a feeling that the problem was the Mikita Drill speed. It may have been too slow or the (new) bit was dull. If it was too slow, it may not have been able to bite in and lift a chip. If the speed was too fast, without enough pressure to bite in, the stainless would heat up and start galling, coating end of the bit with metal that would prevent it from cutting. *** I can't find the post, but someone mentioned using a big aluminum pot without cleaning off the inside oxidised layer. If you were making stew, I would say go ahead, because that "seasoned layer" as its called prevents food from sticking. However, I would wonder what old food flavors might leach out of it when boiling wort in it. Maybe if you do a couple of dark beers first, it would cover it up. If you want to use Aluminum, I suggest you get the pot Anodized. Anyone living in a Metro area is probably not far from a Metal Finishing house. Check the Yellow Pages. They can probably anodize it to MIL-A-8625, Type 3 - Sulfuric Acid Hard Anodize, for 50 dollars. Hmm when you add that cost to the cost of the pot, aluminum is no longer so economical. Oh well, maybe the pot was given to you by your aunt or something. Using plain aluminum would not seem to be a problem health-wise anymore, but may still give a metallic aftertaste. I don't know, I have not used one to make beer. *** Copper will also give off ions to the acidic wort as noted by shiny copper wort chillers. It is a needed trace mineral used by the body, but there is always to much of a good thing. Note how Conn experienced nausea from his copper tea kettle. However, most brewerys use copper kettles, if we are not getting sick from those copper kettles, then we should not get sick from wort chillers. It does not matter if the copper is from the a green oxide or clean surface, it is still a copper ion once it gets in solution. The oxygen ions do what oxygen does best, oxidize. In fact, now that I think about it, these oxygen ions are not the same as oxygen dissolved into the wort during aeration, but are in fact more reactive. But, I do not know whether they will preferentially combine with other oxygen ions to form O2 or will combine with the wort. We Need a Chemist to tackle this question. It could make a good arguement for precleaning our copper. John Palmer MDA-SSD M&P palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 09:25:54 -0800 From: Drew Lynch <drew at chronologic.com> Subject: Re: Cajun Cookers >>>>> On Fri, 18 Feb 1994 10:13:54 -0600 (MDT), COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu> said: COYOTE> There's a place in my little happy valley selling a COYOTE> "Cache Cooker" two burner propane stove, the cask Two burners would be great! I get by nicely with one, but two would be luxury. COYOTE> the line. Question is: Will it (60k btu)get my 15 gal COYOTE> pot to a rolling boil in a reasonalbe amount of time COYOTE> (30min?) My guess is yes. I have a King Cooker, rated at ~150k btu, and I don't run it at full throttle. I get 15 gallon boils in reasonable time periods. Another hint is to start your boil as soon as you've collected a few gallons of runoff. This can easily hack an hour out of your brew schedule. My record is 12 gallons all grain pale ale in 4.5 hours, from clean kitchen to clean kitchen. COYOTE> in the meantime I'd like to run it in the basement COYOTE> next to a window with a fan blowing out. That should COYOTE> be ok- ventilation wise??? Shudn't it? As I understand it the problem is also that these big burners suck up all the oxygen in an enclosed area in short order. I certainly would not run mine indoors. Happy brewing, Drew Even on the Information Superhighway, there are idiots doing 40 in the fast lane, with their left blinkers on..... Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 12:42:20 EST From: "Paul Austin (8-293-5810 or (914))" <huckfinn at vnet.IBM.COM> Subject: Brewing cabinets Does anyone sell or have plans for a cabinet to keep all my brewing stuff in? I want a large hutch-like device in which I could store fermenting worts, equipment, and ingredients. It should have holes through which I could lead power for heaters, and it should fit comfortably in an apartment (the main reason I want one). Does such an item exist? Paul Austin Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 12:49:28 EST From: btalk at aol.com Subject: hop aroma/flavor In the interest of self and club education, I want to put together a hop aroma and flavor identification program. If I make a regular type tea with a variety of hop, will this work? What proportions, hot? Cold? etc... I'd like to be able to smell and tasste the hop by itself so as no tto confuse it with anything else. Any ideas? Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 12:32:41 -0600 From: David Killian <dkillian at memh.ti.com> Subject: Contamination? Hello again fellow brewers! And thanks for your suggestions on using molasses. I have a question concerning contamination. My first couple of batches, when bottled for a period of week _seemed_ to develop a very small amount of flakey-like substance at the surface level inside the bottle. I can almost be certain that it was not hops that collected there. And I was very thorough when sanitizing my equipment, soaking everything in hot water and bleach. Andrew Winner wrote about siphoning problems he had: >My problem came when I >tried to siphon from the carboy into the bottling bucket. >I could not use the Papazian method of a hose full of >water (can't fit the hose with thumb over end into the >carboy neck). Is the only option to gargle with Baccardi >151 and hope for the best or am I missing some relatively >easy solution for mouth-bacteria-free siphoning? I thought that maybe this is my problem or else what I'm seeing is normal. I have noticed a very mild, funky aftertaste which does not lend itself to any know brewing ingredients. Any ideas? Your comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. David Killian (dkillian at memh.ti.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 13:40:35 +0500 (EST) From: William Sampson <sampson at gibbs.oit.unc.edu> Subject: Bigfoot Barleywine Recipes Greetings homebrewers, My brew partner and I are ready to try a barleywine (batch #10 for us) and are looking for an extract/adjunct grain recipe that emulates Sierra Nevada's Bigfoot or another Cascade-hoppy barleywine. E-mail replies, please; I'll post the results. TIA :) Chip sampson at unc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 13:57:19 EST From: dan_fox at ccmail.GSFC.NASA.GOV Subject: cheap carboys - where? I have it in my fuzzy brain that somebody posted a source of cheap 6.8 or 7 gallon glass carboys ($11-13 + shipping) in the past couple of months. I can't find the reference in looking through my (incomplete) collection. Can somebody refresh my memory, or is this just wishful thinking? Obviously, sources other than the one cited will be gladly accepted. Send to me. If this turns out to be a useful exercise, I will summarize and post results. Thanks. --Dan Fox "I brew, therefore I am." dan_fox at ccmail.gsfc.nasa.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 14:02:11 EST From: dan_fox at ccmail.GSFC.NASA.GOV Subject: that scum on top..... My partner and I brewed a porter from the sytles-series book weekind before last. First attempt at a controlled mash, also our first to go into secondary fermentation. Fun stuff. During the boil, the usual stuff formed on top, with an interesting difference. Within the caramel-colored pools of froth were chocolate brown, shiny spots of oily stuff that had the ability to remain together unless attacked fairly vigorously with the stirspoon. They were not fazed in the least by riding the boil action. Since they tasted good, I took to skimming them off, but they never disappeared completely. Is this the mythical hot break? Did I eat all the good hop oils out of my porter and if so, why did they coagulate? Am I supposed to be skimming the espresso-colored stuff off as well? thanks in advance. --Dan Fox "I like what I brew, but then again I'll drink _anything_." dan_fox at ccmail.gsfc.nasa.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 14:13:52 EST From: dan_fox at ccmail.GSFC.NASA.GOV Subject: Thanks, one and all Thanks to all who wrote to request or discuss my review of the strong beer tasting at the Brick. I had over 40 requests for copies. I am getting fan mail from alt.beer, for Pete's sake! While we're on the subject, does anybody know how to/if it's possible to recieve a.b or r.c.b via email in digest form. My site has no true I-net connectivity, and I have to do it _all_ via email. Responses off line, please - this is not about beer. I will summarize and post. TIA. --Dan Fox "Short, single subject postings are very in this month." dan_fox at ccmail.gsfc.nasa.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 14:50:19 -0500 From: Mike Mitten <gnome at noel.pd.org> Subject: Re: Advice Needed >From: "Andrew C. Winner" <acwinner at wam.umd.edu> >My problem came when I tried to siphon from the carboy >into the bottling bucket. I could not use the Papazian >method of a hose full of water (can't fit the hose with >thumb over end into the carboy neck). If you put the end of the water-filled hose into the beer before you put the other end in the carboy, it will flow forth with a joyous enthusiasm. Works with racking canes, too. -Mike Mike Mitten - gnome at pd.org - DoD#522 - AMA, ACLU Straight but not narrow. '90 Bianchi Backstreet '82 Suzuki GS850GL Irony is the spice of life. "The revolution will not be televised." Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 16:03:59 EST From: Gary S. Kuyat <gsk at sagan.bellcore.com> Subject: Wyeast's Brettanomyces Full-Name: Gary S. Kuyat Joel Birkeland asked again about Wyeast's Brettanomyces culture. I have used it to make a framboise! (raspberry lambic) It is slow, but seems quite attenuative. The first pouch I put in a starter seemed to do almost NOTHING for a week! I thought it was dead! There was some slight sourness in the starter, but MILD... After pitching it (anyway) into a beer going into secondary, and waiting two months it definately ate most of the sugar. The sourness that resulted was a good complement to the raspberry flavor (from Hoptech) that went in just before bottling. My brother thinks the final beer is _too_ sour, but I don't think so. He adds a little sugar syrup to his glass just before pouring the beer. - -- -Gary Kuyat Nobody cares what you think... except about BREWING! gsk at sagan.bellcore.com Beer not politics! (908)699-8422 Please shut up. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 14:14:56 PST From: tpm at wdl.loral.com (Tim P McNerney) Subject: Re: Oxygen Absorbing Caps One thing I have noticed about the caps is that after I have used them, the gray sealing has small bumps. I always assumed that this was an indication of their activation. I would guess that if you look at the inside of the cap and the plastic lining was smooth, then the cap is still good. - --Tim Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1357, 02/24/94

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