HOMEBREW Digest #1467 Tue 05 July 1994

Digest #1466 Digest #1468

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Metal Fusion Burners (Don Put)
  Scrounging for parts in NJ (Art Steinmetz)
  Misc. (PNEUMAND)
  It's been a BAD day. (David Draper)
  honey peach recipe (Victor Franklin)
  MARKETING RESEARC (douglas.kerfoot)
  Re: Coors "Weizen" (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist))
  My King Kooker has a solid stand! (03-Jul-1994 1501 -0400)
  Headspace and carbonation. (Erik Speckman)
  CO2 inhibition of fermentation (Erik Speckman)
  Re:  St. Patricks Kegs (David)" <mbarber at hsv23.pcmail.ingr.com>
  rental of kegs (Sean MacLennan)
  Carbonation (Robert H. Reed)
  Loose Caps - CO2 purge? (Domenick Venezia)
  Keg Crimes #5 -- the neverending story (Louis K. Bonham)
  hqx files/beer labels ("Corey W. Janecky")
  Re: Filters and sub-micron filtering (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Membership in ASBC (Jim Javenkoski)
  Trivial reply to question.. (m.bryson2)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 2 Jul 1994 08:44:48 -0700 From: Don Put <dput at csulb.edu> Subject: Metal Fusion Burners >From: Sean.Rooney at uic.edu (Sean Rooney) >Subject: King Kooker - which one? >I just received a catalog from Metal Fusion, the King Kooker manufacturer, >and I'm overwhelmed by all the different models. Does anyone have insight >as to which is the ideal brewing stove? Basically, there are 170,000 btu >"cast burner" models and 200,000 btu "jet burner" models, and each comes on >3 or 4 different stands. I've read on HBD of problems with adjustability, >efficiency, and stability, and I remember somebody saying that a keg fit >perfectly on their stove. Please help. I recently bought one of the cast burner models as a result of seeing it mentioned on the digest. When I called Metal Fusion, the guy was very, how shall I say, disturbed because of all the calls he got regarding a $15.00 burner (the price mentioned in the HBD post). He said that only included the burner casting with propane orfice with NO stand. He asked what I wanted it for and I told him, and he described what was available. When I questioned him as to the strengh of the stand the cast burner was mounted in, he said: "Man, I weigh 260lbs and I can jump up and down on it all day without breaking it." Not being one to argue with a 260lb man, I ordered one (they call it a ring burner, but it's really not as ring-like as most of the ring burners I've seen). However, it works very well and is sturdy enough to support my keg/boiler without any problems. It also has a adjustable regulator that controls the flame along with an adjustable air baffle. I find that once I get the wort boiling (I usually do 10 gallon batches) I have to turn the flame WAY down to keep it there, and it provides for a nice, roiling boil. My three-tiered brewery now contains a modified hot water heater burner for sparge water, a very nice 3-ring burner for mashing (all three burners are independantly adjustable which is very nice for mashing), and the Metal Fusion cast burner/monster burner for the boiler. I'm very happy with the setup. If I was to redesign and build another 3-tiered setup, I would get three cast burner assemblies from Metal Fusion (just the casting and propane orfice) and build my own stands. But, hey, I'm not looking that hard for projects at the moment :-) Besides, I have to beat js to the market with my motor/paddle assembly ;-) don dput at csulb.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 1994 12:13:45 -0400 From: Art Steinmetz <asteinm at pipeline.com> Subject: Scrounging for parts in NJ I live in the northern, NJ Morristown area. I see a lot of ATT/Bellcore types posting here and I'm hoping to get some local tips from you folks. Any recommendations on where to scavange "cool stuff." Scrapyards, surplus auctions, etc. Thanks! Private or public replies welcome. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 1994 19:02:29 -0400 (EDT) From: PNEUMAND at delphi.com Subject: Misc. Here's my 2 cents n some recent threads; RE: Contamination. Here in Forida (Bacteria Central) RE: Contamination. Here in Florida (Bacteria Central) I have never had a problem. I use a mild bleach solution to soak everything that contacts the beer. RE: Isinglass and Irish Moss. Why? Why add these bizarre thingsto your beer? Just to make it clear? Like Bud? I know my beer is better than Bud's and it is a little cloudy. So what? Better than adding fish guts or seaweed to it. I've never had anyone turn down a 2nd. mug of slightly cloudy homebrew :) RE: German Stein Lids. After consultation with Germans in our company, the consensus is that it is for head retention. By keeping the air off the beer, the head stays longer. RE: Heineken Skunkiness. Heinekin irradiates their beer to destroy bacteria in their water supply. That is why the beer has that flavor. (Plus a little from the water itself) RE: Flame(pissing) contests. Go to town. This type of thing really gets down to the truth. I've seen a lot of BS go across this digest and appreciate someone addressing it. The flame approach makes people think before the post. RE: Stuck fermentations. Warm that beer up (Brrrrrrrrrrr.) Dave Pneuman Siemens Nixdorf Boca Raton, FL Too busy fishin' to all grain..... Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 09:24:15 +1000 (EST) From: David Draper <David.Draper at mq.edu.au> Subject: It's been a BAD day. Dear Friends, today I had my worst-ever brewing experience. I publicly describe this humiliating ordeal only in the hope that it might befall no one else. The executive summary is: NEVER walk away from a boiling brewkettle with a lid even PARTIALLY on it. I was brewing an extract IPA. I do partial boils in my 12-litre (or so) brewpot. After dissolving my extract, adding the juice of my steeped specialty grains, restoring the boil, and popping in my first dose of hops (some Pride o'Ringwood flowers) in a hop bag, it emerged that, because of the particular geometry of the way the hops were in the bag, a persistent blurping bubble near one rim of the pot was sending small spatters of wort onto the stovetop (a glasstop, 4-burner affair mounted into a rectangle cut into the countertop). Not wanting to deal with this inconvenient mess, I placed the lid to my kettle on the pot in an askew fashion, leaving about 1/4 of the area of the pot's opening uncovered in order to avoid what we all know befalls a covered pot of boiling wort--boilover. For the next 30 minutes or so I went about my usual business of putting away my grains, getting my finishing hops bagged up for the T-minus-10-minute addition, etc. No problems. What I usually do is close my kitchen door, leaving the fan in the adjoining laundry room on to help draw out the steam, and have the window open, all to minimize the aroma effect for the benefit of the neighbors and, especially, my long- suffering wife. I have never before today left a lid on the pot; my burner is sufficiently robust that a full rolling boil is easily maintained. For the last half of my boiling, things always (except--guess when) have quieted down so that very little attention is required. I very often vacate the kitchen by this time, leaving the door shut, and go do other things. Today when I re-entered the kitchen at T-minus-10, I was greeted by a most horrific sight. Seems that the jiggling of the pot while it boiled had shimmied the lid over so that it ended up covering the entire pot. This apparently happened not too long after I had left the room, judging by how little wort was left in the pot. The Mother of All Boilovers had sent wort over the top of the pot, onto the glasstop stove, which, being mounted in a rectangle cut in the countertop, provided a nifty access to the cupboard below the stove. What remained on the stove top was baked to a wonderful brownish black color and had the consistency of Super Glue (tm). There was a huge puddle of wort (which, being a partial-boil IPA-in-waiting, probably had a gravity of 1.2 or even higher-- I'm too despondent to calculate what it would have been) dripping off the countertop onto the floor. I had that mostly sopped up when I opened the cupboard door to wipe it off--only to discover that both shelves of the cupboard were awash as well--including every pot and pan we own, less about two. This from the nifty access provided along the edges of the rectangle in which the stovetop is mounted. Needless to say the batch was a writeoff. For the next three hours I cleaned and cleaned and cleaned--I had to literally disassemble the cupboard in order to get to all the wort-soaked parts. Then I had to wash every pot and pan we own, less about two, in addition to my usual brew gear. And I don't even have the consolation-prize of knowing that yeast are busily procreating in my fermenter. So friends, take it from me. DON'T leave a lid on your pot. Even partially. If you have to leave the room to take a leak, take the lid off. If you have to leave the room to answer the phone, take the lid off. You get the idea. Cheers, Dave in Sydney - -- ****************************************************************************** David S. Draper School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University ddraper at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au NSW 2109 Sydney, Australia Fax: +61-2-805-8428 Voice: +61-2-805-8347 Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 1994 18:32:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Victor Franklin <biker at eskimo.com> Subject: honey peach recipe i would like to make a honey peach recipe w/lots of honey and peach flavor. a good summer beer. i was thinking of the following. any suggestions? 1 can sun country wheat extract 7 1\2 lbs light clover honey 1 - 1 1\2 oz cascade in 60 min boil 1\2 oz cascade to finish brewtek cl-32 belgian ale #2 10 lbs of fresh peach puree in the secondary i would like it at a good 7% alch. very lightly hopped. any suggestions on any of the ingredients? especially the yeast and hops. just as a note i do a full boil. (if it matters) any help on refining/revamping this would be much appreciated. Victor Franklin biker at eskimo.com ** in search of a better beer ** Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 03 Jul 94 11:13:59 -0400 From: douglas.kerfoot at sbaonline.gov Subject: MARKETING RESEARC I am doing a graduate level marketing project on the homebrew industry. If anyone has done any similar projects and would be willing to share their work I would greatly appreciate it! Please send me private e-mail. Thanks to all who helped me answer the mystery of the stuck fermentation on my helles bock. CAUTION: Laaglander extra light spray malt has a very high percentage of unfermentables. Unless you like the taste of mildly alcoholic wort, do not waste $30.00 of the stuff like I did! I finally received my three kegs from St. Patricks'. They arrived two-weeks later than promised and one is missing the cover-bail and had a broken peice inside of the inlet fitting. I will post a follow on how well they resolve the issue. As far as I'm concerned, I have only received two kegs right now for a cost of $46.00 including shipping. 3/$33.00, too good to be true? Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 09:52:17 -0600 (MDT) From: walter at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist)) Subject: Re: Coors "Weizen" > picoreview: it's not. > > microreview: I don't know why they bothered. Tastes like an american > lager. No real wheat flavor, definitely no Weizen yeast flavor. > > It's also got the word "stout" on the bottle. But I think it's part > of the size designation: "stout 12 oz" That is, it's a wider than > normal (longneck) bottle. But I could be wrong. Well, have you tried the local weizen, or hefe weizen? Some of these are true German weizens, or approximations thereof; but often what a micro calls a weizen is just an American wheat. A very pale ale, using wheat, lacking a lot of hops. If you are going to jump all over Coors for calling an American wheat a weizen, then you better get on the micros too! Now, their Eisbock, that is another story ... As far as the beer goes, it definitely is an ALE. Yes, it was bland, as any American wheat is. But that IS the style. It is a much better attempt than the "eisbock", IMHO. I too would have loved a good German weizen, and thus you will not find much Coors weizenbeer in my refrigerator. But then I don't think I am the audience that Coors is aiming at with this beer anyway. But that's a whole different thread ... Brian Brian J Walter walter at lamar.colostate.edu GO Pack! Chem Grad Student Homebrewer/Beer Geek RUSH Fanatic (music) Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 94 15:03:31 EDT From: 03-Jul-1994 1501 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com> Subject: My King Kooker has a solid stand! >Date: 30 Jun 1994 09:26:12 U >From: "Rich Scotty" <rscotty at denitqm.ecte.uswc.uswest.com> >Subject: Cookers > > Subject: Time: 9:17 AM > OFFICE MEMO Cookers Date: 6/30/94 >David Hippe writes: > >>I have seen the King Kooker for $50 with 170,000 btu but I am >>concerned with the stability of the tripod. I found a Cache Cooker for >>$70 rated at about 100,000 btu which looks more sturdy. What btu >rating >>should I look for? >Does anyone have a distinct preference? >I have a King Cooker and you are correct in your assessment of the tripod. I >never trusted the thing. It is poorly designed and doesn't fit well enough to >be useful. I solved this problem with my trusty Black & Decker Workmate (tm). On the contrary, my king kooker's stand is very solid and stable. I do boils of 10+ gals in a 15.5 SS boiler. never had a problem. the height is nearly perfect. jc Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 15:50:29 -0800 From: especkma at reed.edu (Erik Speckman) Subject: Headspace and carbonation. About a week ago I explained how the amount of headspace should not have a large effect on carbonation. Since then I have been trying to reconcile my explanation with peoples observations that larger headspace gives higher carbonation. My first impulse was do dimiss them as "old brewers tales" but now I have a hypothesis. If the yeast can utilise the O2 in the headspace in aerobic respiration then, instead of producing 2 molecules of CO2 and two molecules of ethanol, the yeast will produce 6 molecules of CO2. This has the potential for 3x as much CO2. However, in practice, this increace is unlikely to be reached. Let's say we have a headspace of 2 oz with 12 oz. of beer. The headspce is rougly 20% the voulme of liquid. That headspace is approx 20% O2. This O2 is converted to CO2 in a 1:1 ratio. At completion we have an "extra" 20% of CO2 in the headspace. This will increace the dissolved volume of CO2 by only 0.04 liquid volumes. (20%x20%). That is about 2% more carbonation in a typically carbonated ale (2 volumes of dissolved CO2) Not enough to notice. Back to the drawing board. Erik PS. Thanks to the people who pointed out that the headspace will generally hold less CO2 per volume than the liquid. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 15:55:36 -0800 From: especkma at reed.edu (Erik Speckman) Subject: CO2 inhibition of fermentation >Date: Sat, 25 Jun 94 9:44:24 EDT >From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu> >Subject: bottle conditioning > [CO2 pressure limits fermentation, and therefor carbonation durring bottle conditioning] > >Is this actually a known fact? I was assured by a microbiology professor >who works on the sucrose metabolism pathway in S. cerevisiae that there >is NO feedback inhibition by CO2 pressure on the fermentation enzymes. Even if their is not a separate pathway for feedback inhibition there is allways thermodynamics. Every reaction has an equilibrium constant that is dependant on the concentrations of the reactants and reactant products. In the case of fermentation the equation would look like: [EtOH]x[CO2] Keq = ------------ [Glucose] Unfortunatly I do not know the Keq for the fermentation of glucose to ethanol. I should be able to come up with a decent approximation if I can find or figure out an equation to find Keq given the change in free energy between reactants and products. When I have the numbers I need, I suspect we will find CO2 pressure does not play a meaningful roll in determining the endpoint of carbonation. Until then, it is a possibility to consider. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 01 Jul 94 16:50:00 CDT From: "Barber, Marshall (David)" <mbarber at hsv23.pcmail.ingr.com> Subject: Re: St. Patricks Kegs >Date: Wed, 29 Jun 94 10:11:32 CDT >From: unisql!jonh at cs.utexas.edu (Jon Higby) >Subject: Re: St. Pats >I've been watching the posting about St. Pats kegs. Being local to St. Pats >and a regular customer, I would like to provide some insight. >There were two bulk shipments of kegs to St. Pats. The number of orders from >their advertisements and posting to the HBD & rcb, way outpaced their >inventory. They had a line on another 1,000+ and bought them. By the time >they had finally got their second shipment, they were greatly back ordered >and have been swamped ever since. No one held a gun to Lynne's head and forced her to accept more orders than she was able to fulfill in a timely manner. If the kegs are back-ordered, the customer should be advised of this up-front. >Points to keep in mind: >1.) They have wholesale orders for the kegs too (other homebrew shops for the >SAME price as you are paying). They place all customers ahead of their >wholesale orders! Huh? If "wholesale" orders impose no delays on the orders from the rest of us, then why should we keep this point in mind? >2.) The price is/was more than good - in hindsight, it was too good. Consider >the price to be offset by the shipping delay (now, it wasn't planned that >way). If you need your kegs now, cancel your order and go to your local >homebrew supply store for them. St. Patricks set the pricing themselves, just like with any of their other supplies, so I don't see where this excuses unreasonable delays. If I had known in advance it would take two and a half months to get the kegs, I never would have placed the order. I never cancelled the order because they kept stringing me along with promises that the kegs would be shipped "today". >3.) There is a good bit of physical labor involved in shipping the kegs. This >includes pressure testing and packaging (taping the kegs together). It >definitly takes longer to prepare kegs to be shipped than it does an >equivalent dollar amount of malt, yeast, hops, etc. So? Again, a common complaint is that St. Patricks promises that the kegs will be sent "today" or "tommorrow", and then doesn't fulfill that promise. If they don't know when they'll be able to ship, then I expect to be told that. >4.) Kegs are not their primary business. They do a huge mail-order volume of >supplies and equipment (both wholesale and retail). This part of the business >has to have priority over the shipment of the kegs. This makes no sense to me. Are kegs not "supplies and equipment"? Why should a keg customer expect to be discriminated against? Has St. Patricks stated up-front that kegs are a secondary business, and handled as a lower priority issue? >5.) They do not (as someone implied) charge your creditcard before they ship >the kegs. > >6.) Complaints in general: >You are buying used kegs. Complaints about syrup still being inside, the >outside having scratches, small dents, being taped together when shipped, etc >are ridiculious. If you want a perfect keg, go buy a new one for $100 plus >instead of $11! In most homebrew shops, you can't buy a 5 gallon glass >carboy for $11! Complaints about the lack of an 800 toll-free number - >how do you think homebrew shops pay for that service (hint - they don't >just pay it out of their own pocket!)?? Most of the complaints I have seen about St. Patricks kegs have been pretty major - leaks in the keg body, leaks in the fittings, New O-rings being shipped inside kegs with syrup in them, the rubber bottom distorted such that the keg will not stand up. Though my replacement O-rings were taped to the outside of the kegs, they still reek of syrup - I have no idea why, if these really are new rings. >Given the overwhelming response, the complaints, the general hassle - I >don't expect they will ever offer this kind of deal again. I can't blame >them. I visited and talked with them this past Saturday (6/25). At that >time they said they were close to being caught-up in the keg shipments. >I have absolutely no ties (financial or other) to St. Patricks. I have just >come to be good friends with the owners and have had long, open discussions >with them on everything (including the kegs). They are fine, honest people >attempting to deal (as best they can) with the overwhelming response to the >kegs. Honest? Points to keep in mind: 1) I was first sent (and charged for) pin-lock kegs instead of the ball-locks I ordered. I would have accepted this as an honest mistake had she handled it differently. She immediately implied that I really had asked for pin-locks, and tried to pressure me into accepting them anyway. Interestingly enough, I have since learned that others have been shipped pin-locks instead of the ball-locks they ordered. Having only circumstantial evidence, I will certainly not make any accusations here, but I think the implications speak for themselves. 2) I still have not received reimbursement for the price difference between the pin-lock and ball lock kegs nor for my shipping expenses in returning the pin-lock kegs. Lynne promised me these reimbursements back in April. 3) I was promised, at two different times, that kegs would be shipped to me "today" and "by tomorrow", respectively, and in fact they were not. 4) Lynne claimed that I had not returned the pin-lock kegs to her when she had, in fact, received and signed for them three weeks earlier! 5) There have simply been too many mishaps with no excuses for this one simple order! >Send any flames to /dev/null, I don't care to see them. I see you share St. Patricks' attitude toward complaints - it's no wonder you get along so well with them! >Jon Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 1994 01:00:00 -0400 From: sam at gobi.toolsmiths.on.ca (Sean MacLennan) Subject: rental of kegs On the kegging issue... In Canada, Labatts or Molsons is coming out with a key that contains about the same amount of beer as a 24. It is already pressurized, and needs no tap. There are marketing it to the party/cottage crowd as being more convenient than a 24. The kicker is, the deposit will be applied to your credit card. If you bring it back within x weeks (hey, it's monday morning, can't remember the detailzzzzz), it costs you nothing. For every week after x weeks, they deduct $4 rental charge. If you don't return it within y weeks, they charge you $40? for the key. I believe this last charge is 1/3 its wholesale value. Sean MacLennan sam at toolsmiths.on.ca There is no bad beer, only better! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 1994 10:09:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert H. Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com> Subject: Carbonation Kelly writes: > > Back to the subject of overcarbonation: Frankly, I have never > experienced this phenomena, and feel it might simply exist only in > peoples' minds. (That should earn me a few flames.) On the basis of > the physical science of carbonation, there is just no reasonable > explanation for this phenomena. But since so many people have claimed > to have witnessed it, perhaps we should keep looking for a reasonable > explanation. A very well known homebrew author in his recent book claims that overcarbonation problems can be explained as "The simple explanation is that you have added too much corn sugar". Perhaps, but considering the other fairly detailed aspects of homebrewing, I can't see that many homebrewers adding two or three cups of dextrose in a fit of confusion. Several plausible reasons for overcarbonation - assuming no contamination - are: 1) Bottling too early - especially lagers which tend to ferment more slowly. If you endpoint your fermentation visually w/o a hydrometer, you may not always recognize the end of fermentation. 2) CO2 dissolved in your beer - I see this with ales fermented in the low 60s and with lager fermentations. At colder temperatures, CO2 is more soluble and this CO2 can throw off your carbonation levels if the beer is not brought to room temp a couple of days before bottling (unless you are able to measure your beer's CO2 content) 3) Complex sugars - I have had high-dextrin beers that become marginally overcarbonated of a period of months (6-9). I have attributed (no data) this phenomenon to the very slow fermentation of complex sugars during the storage period. -Rob Reed Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 1994 07:58:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com> Subject: Loose Caps - CO2 purge? >From: Jonathan G Knight <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU> >question that may be related. Some while back in the HBD it was opined >that, when bottling, if you leave the bottle cap on top of the bottle >without sealing it for a few minutes, the CO2 from the yeast will purge >the headspace of unwanted O2. >I can't really believe that the yeast is kicking out all that much >CO2 at this stage. This is something I have practiced for quite a while. I must agree that it seems unlikely that the yeast is producing much CO2 so soon after priming, but I don't think that that is the source of the purging CO2. When I rack from the secondary into the bottling container there is a lot of outgassing of dissolved CO2 and as I bottle this outgassing continues - if you use clear hoses you can see it. Also that sputtering you hear out of the bottling cane (if you have one of the spring loaded ones) are the outgassed CO2 bubbles passing through the cane. So as the bottles sit with the caps only laid on the outgassing CO2 displaces the ambient air. >(2) If it's true that O2 can migrate back and forth across the cap seal >anyway, then doesn't that negate the intended effect of the "natural" CO2 >purge described above? Over time perhaps, but if something as simple as not crimping for 15-30 minutes can increase your shelf life by even a couple months, it's worth it in my book. In fact this 15-30 minute wait is not a wait at all if you fill all the bottles, then go back and crimp in the same order. Cheers! Domenick Venezia ZymoGenetics, Inc. Seattle, WA venezia at zgi.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 04 Jul 1994 10:52:28 From: lkbonham at beerlaw.win.net (Louis K. Bonham) Subject: Keg Crimes #5 -- the neverending story I can't resist continuing an intelligent debate. Todd Jennings makes the following thoughtful observations: >Property law dictates that unless by written or oral contract (and a few other particulars like adverse possession), title can only pass when there is a bona fide purchaser. Absolutely correct, although I'd note that abandonment is an especially applicable "particular" in the case of kegs. The key question, however, is *what* are the terms retail beer contract? If it's a sale, title passes. If it's a rental, no title passes. My critique of your logic (explained below) is that you leap to the conclusion that the contract is automatically a rental (and therefore there is no possibility of a BFP [lawyerese for "bona fide purchaser", as I suspect Todd knows] when in fact there may be nothing manifested in the parties' contract to support this conclusion. >In the scenario of the jeweler and the watch, the third party who the jeweler sold the watch to would be a bona fide purchaser because the sale of jewelry items is customarily transacted in the jeweler's shop. This situation is entirely different from the consumer buying a keg of beer from the distributer. The consumer would not be considered a bona fide purchaser, mainly because it is not the distributor's customary business to sell the keg with the beer. Wait. Stop. Time-out. The primary question is whether the retailer's sale of a keg of beer includes passing title to the keg. By arguing that it's "not the distributor's customary business to sell the keg," you're asserting your conclusion as a supporting argument -- a/k/a circular logic. IOW, your argument presumes that there can't be a BFP because the transaction isn't a sale. If the transaction *is* established to a sale, however, then the retailer *is* in the business and therefore there *can* be a BFP. >The deposit given is customarily for purposes of insuring that the keg will be returned (After all, he has an obligation to the brewery). As I've noted before, how is this intent manifested in the typical retailer/customer transaction? The fact that the retailer may have an obligation to the brewery is irrelevant if his intent is not in some way manifested in the contract with the consumer. If the retailer *says* the transaction is a rental (orally, in a form contract, or even with a highly visible sign at his place of business), then the transaction is a rental and your logic is unassailable: in such case, there is no BFP, for the simple reason that there has been no purchase. Typically, however, there is *no* outward manifestation of such an intent. >Some vendors even go as far as saying to the customer that their deposit will be refunded upon return of the keg. This IMPLIES that the keg is to be returned. No bona fide purchaser, therefore no title passes. Agreed that the parties are covenanting for the return of the keg. This does not, however, lead inexorably to the conclusion that the transaction necessarily is a rental and therefore there can be no BFP. My point is that this transaction bears far more hallmarks of a sale/repurchase transaction (which also includes an understanding that the res will eventually be returned to the seller, yet it involves a passing of title) than a rental transaction. Further, unless there are some manifestations of the parties' intent that a contract be a rental, the general default is that the transaction is a sale. See UCC article 2. [For those of you watching from the sidelines, we're now into the realm of fairly esoteric and academic issues that are far more likely to appear on law school exams and law review colloquies than in courtrooms <g>.] Returning to a more practical level, everything I've seen and heard over the past weeks on this thread (on and off HBD) leaves me convinced that, at the very least, the assertion in the last issue of BT that possession / conversion of a keg is *always* a crime is utter and complete hogwash. Whether by abandonment, the inherent nature of the retail transaction, or other means, breweries can and do lose legal title to their kegs, and accordingly possession is not, ipso facto, a crime. Having said that, SABCO's deal on converted kegs (stainless fittings expertly heliarced with a sanitary weld) should not be overlooked. You'll probably wind up with a superior product in the long run, for only slightly more than the cost of buying a surplus keg and SS fittings, and paying a competent welder to do the job. >From a beer lover's standpoint, I would never use kegs from Sierra Nevada, Celis, St. Arnolds, or similar smaller establishments even if I was completely sure of legal title, simply because I appreciate their product and business methods and don't want to do anything that might even marginally impact their ability to continue producing. For the same reasons, it might be interesting if hundreds of legally obtained kegs from the Boston Beer Company were decapitated, with their sawed-out tops sent to Jim Koch as a silent gesture of disgust. Happy fourth of July! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 94 11:27:41 CST From: "Corey W. Janecky" <cjanecky at facstaff.wisc.edu> Subject: hqx files/beer labels Thanks to all of you that replied to my recent post about *.hqx files (they are Mac files in case you wanted to know) and beer label shareware. Though I didn't reply to y'all personally, I do appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. Thanks, Corey Janecky xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Beer, its not just for breakfast anymore! xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 94 11:07:08 PDT From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: Re: Filters and sub-micron filtering >>>>> "Steve" == STROUD <STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com> writes: Steve> George put up a chart, showing the effect of different size filters. Steve> The bottom line is that a *true* 0.5 micron filter will take out _all_ Steve> yeast and probably all bacteria... I just recently talked to the people who make the Katadyn water filters and they have a true .2 micron ceramic filter. Most bacteria will be removed by a .4 micron, all but one will be removed by a .2 micron. The one which won't be removed is .2 micron in diameter but much longer. That fact coupled with the fact that it is quite rare, being found only one place in the world, they don't worry about not getting it out completely. dion Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814 Email: hollen at megatek.com Staff Software Engineer Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 1994 20:56:17 -0500 From: pastaman at uiuc.edu (Jim Javenkoski) Subject: Membership in ASBC I'm not a list subscriber, but I would like to provide some information which may be of interest to a few of you: membership in the American Society of Brewing Chemists (ASBC). Individual memberships are available for $85.00 per year, while student memberships are $25.00 per year. If you would like a brochure and membership form to join ASBC, please send a request for more information and your complete snail mail address to Mary Courteau, ASBC Membership Services Supervisor at: maryc at scisoc.org For those of you who wish to read further, I've taken the liberty of transcribing part of the ASBC brochure which describes the organization. "ABOUT THE SOCIETY AND ITS WORK The American Society of Brewing Chemists was founded in 1934 to improve and bring uniformity to the brewing industry on a technical level. Today, ASBC is represented on nearly every continent, by over 700 individual members and over 50 corporate members. The Society is not a trade association or a lobying arm, nor is it influenced by any specific company. To this day, ASBC's primary objectives are to resolve technical problems on an industry-wide basis, keep current on the technical needs of the brewing industry, and anticipate the industry's future concerns. ASBC members are primarily employed directly by the brewing industry at firms thoughout the world. The second largest contingent are employed by allied industries. Approximately 12 percent of the ASBC membership work as consultants to the industry, and smaller percentages work in government and academia... ...PUBLICATIONS *ASBC Journal* Included in your ASBC membership, this quarterly refereed journal concentrates on original research findings, new applications, and symposium topics, as well as review papers. It also includes subcommittee reports presented at the annual meeting. *ASBC Newsletter* A subscription to the Newsletter is also included with your ASBC membership. The Newsletter focuses on administrative activities and changes, section activities, committee appointments, and technical news. It also includes the annual directory of ASBC members and their company affiliations... ...PROFESSIONAL MEETINGS The ASBC usually holds its annual meeting in the spring of each year. This meeting consists of the presentation of technical papers, the submission of technical subcommittee reports, and the transacting of Society business. Members are encouraged to present papers at the annual meeting; these papers are also published in the ASBC Journal. During the meeting there are technical exhibits, a members luncheon, President's reception and banquet, subcommittee meetings, and hospitality breaks for relaxing and visiting with old friends and new acquaintances. There are also a number of sections across the U.S. which meet on a monthly or bimonthly basis for the purpose of hearing scientific presentations, discussing technical matters related to brewing, and exchanging views with other professionals. You may want to plan ahead for these upcoming ASBC annual meetings: 1995 - April 8-12 San Diego, CA 1996 - May 12-15 Chicago, IL" Hopefully this information has been enlightening for some of you. Please contact Mary Courteau <maryc at scisoc.org> for further details and membership forms. Disclaimer: I do not financially benefit in any way from new memberships in ASBC. I am the first student member and, quite simply, I don't care to be the only one! Thanks for your consideration. James S. Javenkoski "...Try and engage some conversation, Graduate Research Assistant but people's teeth grind and hackles rise, University of Illinois and they get that Department of Food Science glazed look in their eyes..." 399B Bevier Hall 905 South Goodwin Avenue MOONSHAKE Urbana, IL 61801-3852 "Right To Fly" Phone: 217.244.0786 from the LP, *The Sound Your Eyes Can Follow* Fax: 217.333.9368 1994 Too Pure, Ltd. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 94 22:02:35 -0500 From: WIRESULTS at WINET.mste.org Subject: I know I've read it somewhere, but I can't find it again.... Can anyone tell me about a Bodolet (sp?) cooler. I found a reference to one in a very strange room in an *old* brewery around here. rjl wiresults at winet.mst.org Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 94 05:36:00 UTC From: m.bryson2 at genie.geis.com Subject: Trivial reply to question.. Someone may correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that it's pronounced WHY-yeast... Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1467, 07/05/94