FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Secondary fermentation (ccooper)
  Hose Job (BSHECK)
  Does Fritz Maytag Possess Jim Koch-like Traits? (michael j dix)
  burst-to-activate/citrus taste/LOOONG mashes/Lager malt modification (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Celis White (Steve Peters)
  Help with water analysis (allison shorten)
  Odd occurences (Phil Miller)
  Jap. Beetles, etc. (John McCauley)
  Japanese beetles/Citrus flavor/Wort chillers (Philip Gravel)
  Help me find beer in Albany NY (Tom Baier)
  Wyeast 2007 (Don Put)
  Re: Skunks & Heineken (Paul Murray)
  Hop table (Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)
  Up a Kriek! (Bill Rust)
  Durham, NC competition 9/17/94 (MIKE LELIVELT)
  Aluminium-Alzheimers/Hydrometers (braddw)
  Re: Sam Adams (John Hartman)
  coolers, gott, rectangular, etc. (21-Jul-1994 0920 -0400)
  San Diego BrewPubs (Guy Mason)
  Home Winemaking Digest?? (WSPEIGHTS)
  Japanese Beettles (BILL O'NEILL)
  THREAD program (Sam Shank)
  Re: Stirring the lauter (Jim Busch)


Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from 
  sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via 
  mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu.  Send HELP as the body of a 
  message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) 
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: July 20, 1994 5:05 EDT
From: ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com
Subject: Secondary fermentation

     Greetings All!

     I'm a new brewer (did batch number 8, a classic english ale,
     last night) and want to thank all the digest contributors
     for there sage advice, wit, and good humor.  Now my
     question, My 7th batch is an extract wheat beer made with
     6.6lbs of Northwestern Wheat extract , 1.5lbs of clover
     honey and Wyeast London Ale .  All is going well with one
     strange note, the wort started out at O.G.  1.047 was very
     active for 5 days in the primary (1" blow-off tube) was
     transfered to the secondary (S.G.  1.019) and has been in
     the secondary for 18 days and is still producing a glug
     through the airlock every 10-12 seconds!  My first 6 batches
     have all turned out well but all were done in the secondary
     within 2 weeks of the brew date.  The color and clarity
     seems to be good and there are no off-odors coming from the
     airlock so I think the beer is fine but when should I bottle
     this batch?  I don't want to over-carb by bottling too soon.
     Am I concerned for nothing?  (I almost said worried but
     decided to relax and have a HB instead)

     TIA!

     Chris Cooper , Commerce Michigan --> Where ever you go <--
     ccooper at a2607.cc.msr.hp.com      --> There you are     <--



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 16:45:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: BSHECK at nimue.hood.edu
Subject: Hose Job

In answer to Dave Rogers' (drogers at access.digex.net) question on 
discoloration of plastic hose: this is my alternative to 
leaving it soak in water/bleach/whatever until the next time;

I have a piece of flexible hose (about 2 or 2.5' lonf) attached to
my stiff siphoning cane.  Before I use it, I douche it in a clorine
bleach solution (standard diluted strength) for about ten minutes.
Then, I jam the flexible end up the spout of my utility sink (yours
may not fit, but this is what _I_ do...) and run hot tap water
through it to rinse for about 5 minutes - while I get my carboys
and/or bottling bucket "adjusted" to receive the hose.
Then I remove the hose from the faucet, steamin' hot, and keeping
both open ends down so nasties won't fall into the openings, I
deploy the siphon in the usual manner - 

Because I keg, I have access to a CO2 bottle. In my opinion, even
if you don't keg, this little 10 pound (or 5pound-whatever you can
afford) unit is a valuable adjunct to the whole process of quality
home beer production. 

Rather than a plain rubber stopper and the air-lock in the top of
my carboy, I use an orange plastic cap with 2 - well, I'm not sure
how to describe them - "Spouts?" - one is straight out, the other
at about a 60 deg. angle.  Stick the stiff racking siphon into the
smaller one that sticks straight up. There is friction - use water
to lubricate - and adjust the siphon to just above the trub/yeast.
Flood the container you're transfering to with CO2. Use a lit match
to check the level in the bucket, or wait till it overflows the
opening on a carboy (I guess you could flood the siphoning hose
with CO2 too, before deploying it).

Then I apply the CO2 hose to the other spout of my carboy and crank
in about 5 lbs or whatever to get the beer flowing. keep a small
positive pressure on the beer to keep it gently flowing.

NOW, the important part: When you are done with the hose, replace
it into the sink and flush it really well. shake excess water out
of it (I grab it in the middle where the flexible hose mates with
the stiff siphoning cane, and spin it around, letting centrifigle
force remove most of the water) and plug the open end of the
flexible hose over the open end of the racking cane! This is how I
store it until the next time.  

I have been doing this for over a year now, with no bad batches due
to a grody siphoning hose (i.e.: unwanted infections). 

I would've replied directly to you, Dave, but my Postm*ster kept 
bouncing your address....

Contact me on the internet: BSHECK at hood.nimue.edu or Compu$erve:
Bob Sheck, 72617,1271. I live in Germantown MD, and work in
Frederick, MD, so if I'm geographically close to you [or anyone else, 
FTM], I will be glad to demonstrate....

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 20 Jul 94 14:23:38 PDT"
From: michael j dix <mdix at dcssc.sj.hp.com>
Subject: Does Fritz Maytag Possess Jim Koch-like Traits?

The recap of Jim Koch's sins includes his unjust desire to claim the word
Boston as his trademark.  But I have often wondered if Fritz Maytag is
similarly guilty when it comes to the words "Anchor" and "Steam".  I would
appreciate learning the facts from readers of the HBD.

1) Apparently Anchor claims that "Steam" is its exclusive descriptor for
beer.  Yet, as I understand it, there were several steam breweries in
California, Anchor merely being the last survivor.  Years ago, as in Fred
Eckhardt's "Treatise on Lager Beers," there were several recipes for
"steam beer."  Nowadays that type of recipe is for "California Common
Beer."  Is this the long arm of Mr. Maytag reaching into the homebrewing
literature?

2) For a long time a beer named Anchor has been brewed in Singapore and
Malaysia.  (Read "Time for a Tiger" by the fellow who wrote "A Clockwork
Orange."  You'll find yourself reaching for a warm one.)  Some ten years
ago I could buy Anchor and Tiger beer, as well as ABC Stout, imported
either from Singapore or Malaysia by the Old Captain Import Co.  of
Portland, Oregon (if I remember the name correctly.)  Later they
disappeared from stores, and when they came back there was no more Anchor.
Was this because of Mr. Maytag? 

The two beers are quite different, Malayan Anchor being a basic
pilsener-type.  In the US, where Lowenbrau from Miller (licensed by
Lowenbrau Munich) co-exists with Lowenbrau Zurich, it would seem possible
to have both Anchors.

If it is true that Mr.  Maytag has been vigorously and unfairly
suppressing the competitive use of "Anchor" and "Steam" (what about
"Beer"), demonstrating he has some Kochian attributes (no whiny
beer-spilling commercials however), what then?  Boycott?  Hanging in
effigy?  Switching to Miller products to show support for peaceful
co-existence?  (Although naming your draft beer "Miller Genuine Draft" is
a heinous crime in its own right.)

Your thoughts on these matters are welcome.

Best regards,

Mike Dix (mdix at dcssc.sj.hp.com)

Return to table of contents


Date: 20 Jul 94 22:06:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: burst-to-activate/citrus taste/LOOONG mashes/Lager malt modification

Chris writes:
>I don't know about other parts, but here in Australia the "latest" WYeast
>strains come in foil packs without the burst-to-activate pouch (ie #3068
>Weinstephan Wheat beer yeast).  The Australian distributor claims they've
>told him that soon that's the way they will all be.  IF this is the case,

No.  All the strains I just received (including the Weihenstephan Wheat,
Belgian White, London ESB (formerly Special London), Koelsch and Scottish)
have the burst-to-activate pouches.  For several months the "Advanced Strains"
came without pouches, but now it appears that all will be *with* pouches.

>what are they trying to achieve?  Following a similar thread on
>rec.crafts.brewing, do you think it is better one way or the other?

I would say I prefer the pouches.  I always make a starter, but with the
pouch, I can tell how the yeast is doing (judging from how fast it puffs up)
and I theorize that I'm pitching more yeast into my starter than just pitching
the non-pouch yeast.

>Given that an "activated" pack is still not really enough to do the job
>efficiently on it's own (and yet some people are pitching the activated
>pack straight into the wort), is WYeast just forcing people to do starters
>for their own good?  OR are they tired of getting returns of accidentally
>activated packs?

I don't know why they did the advanced series and now made them all with
pouches, but when I used to not use starters I made some very tasty beers
(including one Bock) without using a starter.  Starters are highly recommended
to minimize chances of infection and to get the full attenuation from higher
gravity beers, but I feel that for low- to medium-gravity beers (<1060) you
can get by just fine with good sanitation and just a Wyeast package without
a starter.

*******
Bruce writes:
>Over the past year every batch of beer I make as a citrus taste to it.  Some
>batches are stronger than others.  How or what causes this and how do you
>remove it.

I suspect either overdoing Cascade or Centennial hops or a citrobacter
infection are your problems.  If you are using lots of Cascades of Centennials
and don't like the citrusy flavor, then switch to a different hop.  If you
suspect infection, then reassess your sanitation techniques, perhaps wait till
fall to brew again (when the air ls less microbiologically active) or replace
plastic equipment that touches your wort.

*********
Bill writes:
>A friend that has been brewing for about 5 years suggested a single 
>step infusion mash that takes 10 - 20 hours (he also uses 
>alpha-amylase religiously) He clams to get 90-95% conversions. His 
>explanation is that the mash will pass through all good temperature 
>ranges (starting at 155 deg. and dropping to 120 deg.) during the 
>process, thus giving the benefits of multi stage mash procedures as 
>well as longer exposure to enzymes for starch conversation . Is there 
>any one out there that has the same experience? I have not seen this 
>method in books or in this forum. Is my friend all wet?

Your friend seems to be happy with it, and it wlll work, but it is unnecessary
to mash so long.  It is sort-of incorrect to say that since the mash starts
out at 155F and works its way down to 120F that it passes through all the
proper rest temperatures.  Most (all?) of the enzymes that are associated
with brewing are thermophilic, meaning that they are denatured by heat.
Let's take alpha- and beta-amylase for example.  The reason that you can
control how dextrinous your wort becomes is because beta-amylase is more
thermophilic than alpha-amylase.  After several hours at 158F, both will be
denatured, but beta-amylase will be denatured after only a few minutes at
this temp, whereas the alpha will last a couple of hours.  Note that the
proteolytic enzymes (protein rest) are even more thermophilic than the
amylase enzymes.  I don't have all the figures here at work, but I'm pretty
sure that the proteolytic enzymes would be long "dead" by the time that
your friend's mash got down to the protein rest range.  This is why when
you do a program temperature mash you always go UPWARD.  You begin with
acid rest, then you go up to protein rest, then liquifaction/saccharification.

Also, I have some reason to believe that overly-long mashes tend to increase
the likelihood of getting a set mash when subsequently lautering, but I have
no concrete data to back this up at this time.  Just a theory for now...

******
Rich writes:
>But I was under the impression that Pils or Pilsner malt was by
>definition (well, "poorly" modified sounds like an ethical
>judgement. I'll call it) less well modified, and that was why
>one needed to use what Dr. Lewis called a program temperature
>mash, as opposed to the well modified pale ale type malt, which can
>use the single step temperature infusion mash. I do know that the
>Great Western malting house does modify to "well done", and that
>those smarties at A-B use that type of malt almost exclusively. I
>thought that all barley could be 2- or 6-row (OK, there's a 4-row,
>but I've never seen it...), and that the degree of modification made
>the malt Pale (well) or Pils (not so well).
>
>That's my working definition
>anyway. I assume that if I by "Lager malt", be it 2 or 6 row, I must
>use a step mash, or I will be overwhelmed by haze and confusion, while
>if I have "Pale Ale malt", be it 2 or 6 row, I can get away with
>infusion mashing. If this meets with general agreement, I will change
>my document accordingly...

Again, it may have been true ten years ago that Pilsener malt was undermodified
and indeed the malt that Pilsenski Prazdroj (sp? -- the brewers of Pilsner
Urquell) uses is undermodified, but consider DeWolf-Cosyns Pils malt.  It is
most definately well modified and can be used in a single-temperature
infusion mash.  No, virtually all barley malt you buy at a homebrew supplier
these days will be fully modified and you will be able to get good results
using a simple single-step mash.  There are other reasons for using decoction
mashes or step-infusions or temperature-controlled mashes (such as high-protein
barley malts or lots of wheat or raw grains or high-kilned base malts (which
are inherently low in diastatic power) or particular flavor characteristics),
but level of modification is not one of them.

Al.

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 17:56:13 -0700
From: Steve Peters <stevep at pcx.ncd.com>
Subject: Celis White


Believe it or not I have access to actual Celis White yeast strain. (thru
the Oregon Brew Crew, truly a wonderful group of people)  That's the actual
yeast they ferment with, not cultured out of the bottle.  With this in mind:

1) Does any one have (and can send me) a recepie for 
Celis White, or taste-a-like?

2) The tempature in my apartment is probably reaching 95+ F during our recent 
heat wave.  Is this hot, too hot, or WAY too hot to ferment a belgian wheat
beer like Celis White?

In other news the last batch of all-grain I made is the cloudiest stuff ever, 
even after the primary fermentation is over.  I'm thinking of racking it to
a secondary and adding a teaspoon of rehydrated gelitin (geletin?  geletine?
am I really a college grad?) Is this the right amount for 5 gallons of beer?  
Awaiting your wisdom, oh great network...


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 10:57:44 +1000 (EST)
From: allison shorten <shorten at zeus.usq.edu.au>
Subject: Help with water analysis

 I recently obtained a water analysis from the local council. It seems
that my local water is not too bad for brewing, but there are several
aspects of the analysis that I am a little confused about, so I thought I
would get some help from the HBD.
  The analysis first has a section called "General Analysis", as follows:
Total dissolved salts 306.28
pH value 7.81
Total hardness as CACO3 132.00
Temporary hardness 87.40
Permanent hardness 44.60
Total alkalinity as CACO3 87.40
Carbonate alk as CACO3 0.00
Bicarbonate alk as CACO3 87.40
Silica as SIO2 12.29
Total iron as FE 0.01
Total manganese 0.00
Total phosphate as PO4 0.03
Free carbon dioxide 2.75

The next section is entitled "detailed analysis" as follows:
Calcium as CA++ 23.25 mg/l
magnesium as MG++ 17.93
sodium as NA+ 47.02
potassium as K+ 2.45
carbonate as CO3-- 0.00
bicarbonate as HCO3- 71.67
sulphate as SO4-- 11.37
chloride as CL- 97.8
nitrate as NO3- 0.00
phosphate as PO4--- 0.03

Finally, there is a long list of "Hypothetical combinations", most of
which are given as 0.00. The others are:
calcium bicarbonate 94.15 ppm
magnesium bicarbonate 42.75
magnesium sulphate 14.19
magnesium chloride 31.14
sodium chloride 119.38
potassium chloride 4.60
potassium phosphate 0.07

My reading of this info, in conjunction with Miller's chapter on water in
TCHOHB is that the water is not to bad, but I need to add gypsum for most
beer styles, as both calcium and sulphate are very low. On the other hand,
I should never add salt or eprom salts. Also, I should get rid of some
carbonates by boiling, but this could be difficult due to the low level of
calcium. Perhaps I should add gypsum before boiling?
  I would appreciate all comments on this water supply , as I am a little
confused about some info, such as carbonates/bicarbonates, temporary
versus permanent hardness and so on. Thanks in advance for all info
Brett Shorten
Toowoomba, Qld, Australia

Return to table of contents


Date:         Wed, 20 Jul 94 20:15:36 CDT
From: Phil Miller <C616063 at MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Subject:      Odd occurences

Two things:
1) Why, when my friends and I were solving the world's problems over some
homebrew, did we get two different tastes from the same batch of homebrew,
one taste being more alcohol-bitter, and one being more hoppy-bitter. Both
tasted fine,  but I thought I would have the same taste in different bottles
of brew from the same batch. Another clue for you homebrew-Colombos: one
bottle (alcohol-bitter) was decidedly less-carbonated than the other (hoppy-
bitter).
2) I tried my first malt-powder brew; I admit, I got a little impatient
and opened a bottle after bottle-agingf for only 6 days. I thought it would
be less-carbonated than my other brews, but would have a good taste. I was
wrong on both parts. It was flat and tasted like liquid oak-tree.
Here is the recipe for my amber beer (basic):

6# Laaglander Amber Malt powder steeped for 60 min.
1 oz fuggles boiled for 60 min
1 0z fuggles boiled for 2 min
1t irish moss for 15 min.
1 wyeast London Ale Liquid yeast
3/4 cup malto-dextrin

Beginning sp. gr. 1.054
ending sp. gr. 1.022

Other than boil-over, i had little trouble with the brew. Why the oak flavor?
(I used 1 - stage fermentation in a plastic bucket for 6 days).
private email is preferred by me (nice passive voice!)

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
PHIL MILLER                  $  WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RUSH
DEPARTMENT OF ECONOMICS      $  LIMBAUGH AND THE HINDENBURG?
MIZZOU                       $  ONE'S A FLAMING NAZI GASBAG, THE OTHER'S
14-0 BIG 8 CHAMPS            $  A DIRIGIBLE. (DOONESBURY)
c616063 at mizzou1.missouri.edu $  GO CUBS! NEVER ENDING QUEST FOR .500!
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
"I'M NOT HERE TO TALK POLITICS. I'M JUST HERE FOR THE DRUGS." NANCY
                                                              REAGAN

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 23:20:51
From: john.mccauley at his.com (John McCauley)
Subject: Jap. Beetles, etc.

Regarding japanese beetles and other leaf eating pests, recently the New York
Times ran an article about a new 'wonder' botanical pesticide derived from the
seed of the Indian(?) Neem tree. It is reportedly effective against 200 leaf
eating pests including Japanese beetles and potato beetles. It works by
disrupting the insect's reproductive cycle. Plus is is somehow benign to
'good' insects. It is marketed under the Bioneem label in the Safer brand line
(though this version is not federally approved for food crops) and it is also
supposedly available under the Neemix brand for food crops. I say supposedly
becaus I have yet to find it in Virginia. The article says that many state
environmental agencies have not gotten around to testing it yet (New York
included). All in all it sounds like it beats the hell out of Sevin for safety
and effectiveness. And better than beetle bags since I swear all they do is
attract the bugs from miles around.

Not cheap though. A pint of Bioneem concentrate goes for $20 here. I am
anxious to try it as I am overrun with beetles on my basil and raspberries.

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 20 Jul 94 22:25 CDT
From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Japanese beetles/Citrus flavor/Wort chillers

===> About Japanese beetles, Lance Stronk writes:

>I too have problems with Jap beetles.  Last year the beetles were so bad that
>they stripped all the leaves off my cascade plants.  I attempted to kill them
>passively with the pheromone (sp?) traps before the plants were stripped but
>it was in vain.  I also planted marigolds about 6 feet away from the plants
>but that seemed useless -- I guess the marigolds need to be about the same
>height as the hops - 10-12 feet.  Anyway, when I saw my hop plants being
>eaten right in front of me it made me sick.  I didn't use any poisons on them.

[snip, snip, snip...]


>              The roots were everywhere).  This year they came up and started
>climbing and just as they got to the top of the 10 foot poles, the Jap beetles
>started munching.  I also planted trees (sweet cherry) and they went to town
>on those as well.  I did the pheromone thing, the marigold thing, and they
>still chomped.  Then I got mad.  I usually use the Sevin dust on the my egg-
>plant since that is a preferred bug meal.  I decided to dust the trees and the
>hops with the dust because I couldnt take it any longer.  It has been 2 weeks
>since I dusted them and the Jap beetles have not been back.  In fact, I don't
>see any of them on the trees or the hops.  I don't normally like to use poison
>for bugs since it gets rid of the good ones as well but, this time the beetles
>pushed me too far.

 ...Which should serve as a warning to all about the dangers of coming between
a man and his homebrew!!!  :-)  :-)

===> Bruce asks about a citrus taste in homebrew:

>Over the past year every batch of beer I make as a citrus taste to it.  Some
>batches are stronger than others.  How or what causes this and how do you
>remove it.

Is the beer you brewed highly hopped?  I had a friend who tried Sierra Nevada
Pale Ale for the first time at a beer tasting.  He commented that it had a
grapefruit-like taste.  When I tasted the SNPA after trying some less hopped
beer, I see how he felt it had a grapefruit like taste.  To the extent that
this is the reason for the citrus taste, aging may mitigate it.

===> Regarding chilling wort, Brian Ellsworth says:

>I just saw a thread in a previous digest about wort cooling. I
>suppose i'll have to dig into this a little, but in one of the
>books i was reading prescribed simply pouring/straining the hot
>wort into a carboy containing 2 or 3 gallons of cold water. Ahhh,
>somehow i'm getting the idea this is, (pardon me) not kool?

That's right.  Exposing hot wort to air results in cardboard-like
flavors due to hot side aeration (HSA).  You want to avoid this.

>Any suggestions? I don't mind filling the sink or a cooler with
>ice water and setting the brew pot into that, but building/buying
>and then cleaning some contraption doesn't sound appealing.

Putting the brewpot in ice water will certainly work.  A wort chiller
is a more efficient and faster way to cool wort.  An immersion chiller
isn't particularily hard to build (took me about an hour).  Cleaning it
isn't that difficult either.  I rinse it and then put it into the boiling
wort for the last 15 minutes to sterilize it.  When I'm done, I simply
rinse it off again, cover it (too keep dust off), and store it.

- -- 
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel                                 pgravel at mcs.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 20:37:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Baier <BAIER_T at SALT.PLU.EDU>
Subject: Help me find beer in Albany NY

I am grateful to Rich Lenihan, Bob Talkiewics and Rick Stark
for their kind responses to my query about beering in NE
Mass.  A summary follows.

I would like to expand this request to include Albany/Troy NY.

Will ANYONE with info about the availability of good beer in
Albany PLEASE e-mail me soon?  Many thanks in advance.

Tom Baier - Tacoma, WA  -  BAIER_T at .SALT.PLU.EDU

- --------------------------------------------------------

Beer near NE Mass.

Brattleboro, VT -  The Windham Brewery at the Latchis Hotel
(or is it the Latchis Brewery at the Windham
Hotel) which is good and McNeils Brewpub which is perhaps the
best brewpub in New England.

Other VT - Catamount, Saranac and Long Trail breweries were
mentioned, without specific locations.  Bennington VT was
also mentioned.

Northampton, MA - there is the Northampton Brewery.  The beer there
ranges from mediocre to OK, depending on when you go.

Hoosic Falls, NY - Man of Kent. Smaller size place with good beers
on tap and an extensive selection of bottles. Simple menu, but good.

Any help in expanding or adding detail to this list is 
greatly appreciated.

Tom Baier - Tacoma, WA - BAIER_T at SALT.PLU.EDU


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 20:47:50 -0700
From: Don Put <dput at csulb.edu>
Subject: Wyeast 2007

>From: David Draper <David.Draper at mq.edu.au>
>Subject: Phenols in Wyeast 2007?

<paragraph of technique/recipe snipped>

>is 2007 known to be phenolic at these stages of fermentation?  

As I'm writing this I'm drinking a lager that I made with the 2007 yeast
about 4 months ago.  In looking over my notes for the batch, I do not see
any comments about phenolics during any stage of the fermentation.  
However, I have learned that lagers go through some really nasty stages so
I don't really taste them until they age a bit.  I did taste this one when
I racked to the keg and was disappointed to say the least; it had a strong
grassy-like taste (I used a TON of Saaz in this batch), but no phenolics 
that I could smell/taste.  

How the beer finished:  In a word, it's a fine brew for what it is (I call
it a "Lawn Mower Lager," an all-malt American Premium type).  Actually, it's
quite refreshing and the off-smells/flavors I perceived at racking are 
gone.  The only thing I'll second about this yeast, which is purported to be
"used in St. Louis," is that it really does contribute those green-apple
notes that are a distinct characteristic of Bud.  However, I hopped mine
quite a bit differently than Bud does :-).  

One other thing:  the beer took a LONG time to clear, and I never have had
haze problems in my beer.  I'm wondering if this an extremely poor 
flocculator; my experience seems to indicate this.  I resorted to fining it
to clear it up, and I've never done that to a batch before as I prefer the
clarity that comes from patience and natural aging.  

BTW, I fermented this at the recommended temperatures and lagered it at 
~35F for quite a while.  

don
dput at csulb.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 14:27:52 +1000 (EST)
From: Paul Murray <pmurray at lingua.cltr.uq.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Skunks & Heineken

Thanks to all the people who responded to my question about the "skunk" 
aroma in imported beers.  I said I would post a summary, but the replies
from Pierre Jelenc HBD 1474, and Philip Gravel HBD 1476 (which was mostly
a forwarded posting by Pierre again) covered it, except for one suggestion
that fluctuations in temperature may have something to do with it, and a
suggestion that the problem might be oxidation (I admitted to not knowing
what a skunk smells like).  I would agree that beer which is skunky could
also be oxidised - one of the things that makes it difficult to recognise
flaws in beer is that they don't always appear one at a time - though I'm
not sure that fluctuations in temperature would have much effect on a
filtered, pasteurized beer.  Somebody also pointed out that kegged
Heineken was fault free, but this wasn't necessarliy real Heineken. 
Castlemain XXXX is the local beer here, but is also brewed in the UK under
licence where it has a different strength (3.7ish compared to 4.9) and is
completely lacking in the hop flavour and aroma which make the real thing
worth drinking.  Coors also brew XXXX under licence, and who knows maybe
their's tastes different again?  Most "imported" beers in the UK are now
"fakes" (Becks being a notable exception - which is perhaps why S & N have
been pushing UK made Coors as an alternative "premium" lager in their tied
houses?), and with the increasing deal making between international
brewing megacorps the practice of brewing each other's beers (or more
accurately - using each other's reputations for marketing purposes) seems
to be a growing trend.  Of course, if you don't like the local Budmilloors
interpretation of their latest trendy "import" you can always do it 
better yourself.  Which is what it's all about :-)





Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 17:37:28 EST
From: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen <aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Hop table
Full-Name: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen

Hiya

A few HBD's back Rich Webb wrote:

| I have created this table of hop characteristics for my own use.  
| I tried to send it in a tabular format, but the list scanner for 
| the HBD won't let in anything over 80 characters by.  It's hard 
| to do this table in 80 characters!  My original version also has 
| the values of acid for the hop flowers and pellets (where 
| available) at my local homebrew supply shop.  
| 
| I suggest that if you want to keep this info, reformat it into 
| tabular format, and place it in your brewing notebook.  
| 
| Good luck!
| Rich Webb

Well guess who was anal enough to do it .... 
  
Variety		Source	AARange	Aroma	Style		Comments	
_______________________________________________________________________________

Saaz 		Czech 	3-6 	V good 	Pilsner		Unique spicy
 							Czech/Bavarian 
 							Noble style aroma
 
Liberty		German	3-5 				German type aroma
 
Hallertauer	German	3.5-5.5	Good	Vienna		German type aroma 
					Weizen		Very mild 
					Municher	Slightly spicy
 					Dortmunder
 
Tettnanger	German	3-5	V good	Alt		Mild Noble German 
					Lager		Fine, sightly spicy
 					Wheat 		aroma
 
Willamette	US 	4.4-7	Good	Stout		Quality aroma
 					Porter 		Mildly fragrant
 					Pale Ale	Grassy
 					Mild Ale
Fuggles		British	2.7-6	Good	Stout 		Traditional aroma hop
 					Porter 		Spicy, mild, grassy
 					Pale Ale
 					Mild Ale
 
Mt. Hood	US	4.3-8	Good			Clean German type aroma
 
Kent Golding	British	4.5-6	Good	Stout		Mild, traditional hop
 					Porter
 					Export
 					Pale Ale
 
Cascade		US	4-7.6	Mod	Ale		Citrusy, spicy, flowery
 					Lager	 	fruity, fragrant 
 					All purpose	Northwest hop
 
Northern Brewer	British	6.5-10	Mod	German Pils	Strongly fragrant high 
							alpha hop
 							German aroma
 
Perle		German	7.6-11	Good	Stout		German aroma hop with
					Alt 	 	bittering potential
 					Wheat
 
Cluster		US	5.5-8.3	Mod	Lager		Mild, pleasant
 
Bullion/	British	8-9.2	Poor	Stout		Strong, pungent 
Brewers Gold				Porter 		bittering hop
 							Unpleasant taste
 
Centennial	US	9-11.5	Good			Very floral with 
 							citrus tones
 
Eroica		US 	10-14	Mod			Pleasant aroma 
							Bittering hop
 
Chinook		US	11.8-14 Mod	Stout		Pungent, heavy and spicy
 					Porter
 
Galena		US	12-15				Strongly fragrant
 
Nugget		US	10.9-16	Good			Bittering hop
 							Nice aroma
 

Does anyone else have any other varieties they want to add?

How about someone with a little more knowledge than me from 
Aussie (or NZ ...  do we have any NZers apart from me on the 
HBD?) making similar summaries for some of our hops e.g.  Styrian 
Goldings, Pride Of Ringwood, Green Bullet, Sticklebrack, Super 
Alpha etc etc ..  

I wasn't sure if this was of universal interest (seeing as it had 
been posted before), but I figured it took me a while to do so I 
would save everyone else the time. If you think was inappropriate
get back to me.

Later

Aidan

- --
Aidan Heerdegen				

e-mail: aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 20 Jul 94 20:08:00 -0640
From: bill.rust at travel.com (Bill Rust)
Subject: Up a Kriek!

Greetings Brewer's!

Just a few questions regarding Kriek beers.  My sister (bless her heart) sent
me a can of Brewferm Kriek extract for my birthday.  Well, I would like to try
to do it justice with a partial mash recipe.  While I was devising a recipe, I
came up with a couple of questions:

  1)  I've heard that Kriek is a Belgian (Lambic?) style ale made with wheat.
      Does the Brewferm kit have any wheat malt in it??

  2)  I want to have the equivalent of 10 lbs. of cherries in the recipe, and
      I read that the Berwferm kit already has approximately 6 lbs. worth of
      cherry flavoring/extract.  How can that be?  It's only a 3 lb can.  Do
      they skimp on the malt extract, and should I adjust by adding more malt?

  3)  Any tips on yeast?  I am entertaining the idea of trying a Lambic
      culture, but I have never tried one before.

So far, I have come up with...

        KRIEK #1

        3 lbs pale 2-row malt
        1 lb wheat malt
        1 can Brewferm Kriek (hopped)
        .75 to 1 additional AAU Hallertau pellets (45 min.)
        4 lbs. cherries (in secondary)
        WYeast #1007 (or a Lambic culture I can get locally)

        METHOD (ala Dave Miller):
        Single step infusion mash, 153 deg.
        Ferment 1 week, 65 deg.
        Rack, add washed and crushed cherries.  Ferment 4 weeks
        Rack to secondary (tertiary?, at least 3 weeks)
        Prime with 1/2 cup brown sugar and keg
        Age 6 weeks before tapping, 45 deg.

I have many extract brews under my belt and #2 partial is coming soon.  Any
comments would be appreciated!

  +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
  | I can't say whether we had more wit amongst us |      BILL RUST       |
  | than usual, but I am certain we had more       |   Systems Analyst    |
  | laughing, which answered the end just as well. |                      |
  |                                                |     Shiloh, IL       |
  | OLIVER GOLDSMITH (1728-1774)                   | bill.rust at travel.com |
  +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
- ---
 ~ SPEED 1.40 #1651 ~

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 08:18:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: MIKE LELIVELT <MJL at UNCVX1.OIT.UNC.EDU>
Subject: Durham, NC competition 9/17/94

The TRiangle's Unabashed homeBrewers is hosting its sixth annual competition on
Saturday September 17th at Halby's Deli in  Durham, NC.

We will be adhering to standard AHA guidelines and use the AHA 1994 National
competition style descriptions.  We will not judge sake or cider.  Only 2
bottles are required.  $5 per entry.

PRIZES!!!!

Boston Beer Company (TM) has kindly donated a CASE of consistently decent beer
for the first place winner in EACH catagory.  Yes, we will be giving away up to
15 cases of the stuff.

One member is currently in Germany collecting genuine German beer glasses to be
given away as the second prize in each catagory.

Weeping Radish Brewery in Durham and Manteo, NC will donate a 22 oz bottle of
their VERY fine and to style German lagers.  (Their Munich Dark is oh so nice.) 
This is the third place prize.

As usual, ribbons for all places will also be awarded.  A yet-to-be described
Best-of-show trophy and ribbon combination will also be award.

One may request an entry form to be mailed via US mail by contacting Mike
Lelivelt at mjl at uncvx1.oit.unc.edu.

CALL FOR JUDGES:

Obivously every competition needs judges & stewarts.  I would like to make a
special request to the numerous qualified judges in the Washington DC area. 
You are 5 hours away and we have not had a large pull from that area in the
past.  We think that this is an under-exploted area with regards to our
contest.  Of coarse, we need judges from all over as well.

We will also host the BJCP exam on the Friday evening before the competition.
Prior reservation is required.  Contact Mike

Thanks for your time and band width.

Mike Lelivelt
mjl at uncvx1.oit.unc.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu Jul 21 08:55:56 1994
From: braddw at rounder.rounder.com
Subject: Aluminium-Alzheimers/Hydrometers

On Thu 7/21 Ash Baker wrote:

>Some time ago in HBD there was a post from a fellow who found an old
coffee percolator, and wanted to mash in it.  But, o! it was aluminium, 
so that plan was banjaxed.  Why, exactly?  It sounded perfect -- it would
hold a full mash at an appropriate temperature for a single infusion
mash, and there is even a little spigot at the bottom.  So what's the
problem with aluminium?  I thought the Alzheimer's issue had been largely
resolved.  And even so, two hours (max) in contact, at sub-boiling
temperatures shouldn't do much, should it?  Or does the acidity of the
fresh wort have something to do with it?
        ------------------------------------------------
That fellow was indeed me, and my worries were in fact about the acidity
of the mash rather than the temperature itself.  I have heard a little
about how the aluminium-alzheimers connection has been refuted but it all
seemed to be conjecture.  Is there anybody out there that can give us the
real poop on this?

And on another note, what's with these hydrometers that they sell us with
the gradations printed on paper and placed in the glass tube?  I can't
see how these things can be manufactured accurately. Am I missing
something here? Can you by them with the gradations printed on the tube? 
Food for thought.....until next time......

   **** ---- "There's always time for a Homebrew!" ----  ****
  C|~~| ----------------------------------------------- C|~~|
   `--'  --------------braddw at rounder.com-------------   `--'
          -------------------------------------------



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 08:12:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: John Hartman <jhartman at VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Re: Sam Adams

Excerpts from mail: 21-Jul-94 Homebrew Digest #1481 (July.. Request No
Articles at hpfc (45699)

> First, contraray to advertising, the beer is not from a recipe of a
> dead relative of Koch.  It also wasn't designed by Koch in his kitchen
> as a homebrewer.  It was designed by Joseph Owades, who is a well-known
> and highly-respected brewing consultant.  Owades also designed the
> original New Amsterdam Amber which was brewed at FX Matt, which I thought
> was delicious.  In the late sixties, Owades designed Gablinger, which
> was maybe the first low-calorie beer.

> Second, contrary to advertising, the beer is not made in a microbrewery
> which makes less beer than megabreweries spill.  It is made in two
> megabreweries.  The west coast bottles come from Blitz-Weinhard in
> Portland, and the east coast bottles come from some big brewery in
> Pennsylvania.  Check the label.

Until rather recently Sam Adams in part was also brewed at the F.X.
Matts Brewery in Utica, NY.  Last October, I took a tour and at the time
they were bottling SA Stout.  However, this past May when I last
visited, the tour guide said they no longer contract brew SA.  She
didn't give a reason when asked, however did point out that only about
5% (if memory serves) was actually brewed near Boston and that most by
far was brewed in Pennsylvania.

And as a plug, F.X. Matts Saranac line is pretty darn good in my
opinion.  Usual disclaimers apply, just a satisfied customer.

 -jh

John Hartman                  AFS: jhartman+
Dept 54T/020-3 J221           VM: jhartman at rchland (if you must :)
AIX/AFS Technical Team        internet: jhartman at vnet.ibm.com
IBM Rochester, MN             (507)253-8037 tl. 553-8037


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 09:22:58 EDT
From: 21-Jul-1994 0920 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: coolers, gott, rectangular, etc.

>Date: Wed, 20 Jul 94 10:45:38 edt
>From: Greg_Habel at DGC.ceo.dg.com
>Subject: Gott Coolers for Mashing.
>
>Message:
>A question for all of you who use the Gott coolers for mashing:  What 
>size do you use?  They make them in 5, 6.5, 7, and 10 gallon sizes.  
>Currently I am using a rectangular 10 gallon cooler but it seems to 
>loose alot of heat.  In 30 minutes I drop from 155F to 145F and am 
>forced to add more water.  Is this typical for those mashing in a 

i currently mash in a rectangular coleman cooler (60 qt cooler?  10 lbs
of gran with 10 qt h20 makes a grain bed of about 5-6").  i exeperience
maybe a 1-2F drop in 1 hours time.  i was amazed when i first started using
this cooler. 

as for the gott, go for the 10 gallon.  plenty of room for future expansion
should you need it.  my b-day is in 8 days... here's to hoping that i'll
get a gott for brewing!

jc

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 09:28:54 +22305931 (EDT)
From: gam at beluga.must.com (Guy Mason)
Subject: San Diego BrewPubs

Greetings Fellow Beer Nuts,

I'll be visiting the San Diego area in August and October and would appreciate
any info on area brewpubs.  Private E-Mail is fine.

TIA
                                _ _ 
                                O O
/---------------------------uuu--U--uuu---------------------------\
|   Guy Mason                                   When Brewing is   |
|   MUST Software International                 Outlawed only     |
|   E-mail : gam at must.com                       Outlaws will Brew |
\-----------------------------------------------------------------/

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 09:31:16 -0400
From: WSPEIGHTS at ntia.doc.gov
Subject:  Home Winemaking Digest??

OK, Flame away immediately if you wish.....but the Brew is still my first
love, since I spent most of my formative years living and drinking beer in
Germany.  In addition to brewing,  I have recently made a committment to
home winemaking, with a small vinyard in my back yard.  My wife is not
pleased with this "hobby" either.  My question is:  Is there a similar forum
to HBD for winemakers?  If anyone knows of one, Please send me a
private email.  Sorry for wasting  BREWSPACE on wine-o matters.

Don Speights  WSPEIGHTS at NTIA.DOC.GOV
NTIA
Annapolis, MD



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 09:27:36 EST
From: BILL O'NEILL <billo at smtplink.copley.com>
Subject: Japanese Beettles

Just a quick note on John DeCarlo's suggestion on BT to fight off the
Nippon Beetles, (I think that may be more politically and culturally 
correct). BT stands for Bacillus Thuringiensis, which attacks the stomach 
of caterpillars only and causes them to stop eating and starve. The product
that John may be referring to would havee milky spore disease in it. You 
spread it on your lawn, (works much better if your neighbors do it, too).
The result is that it kills the beetle grubs underground while they munch
your lawn roots. The same basic result, but I believe they are two different
products.  

  


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 08:03:55 -0600
From: sammy at biochemistry.BIOC.CWRU.Edu (Sam Shank)
Subject: THREAD program

>For those of you unfamiliar with THREAD, it is a program for MS-DOS
>computers that searches back issues of the Homebrew Digest using multiple

Is there something similar for the Mac? My mail program will do it (Eudora)
but it is painfully slow.

Sam Shank   sammy at biochemitry.cwru.edu



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 10:21:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Stirring the lauter

Al wrote some good comments that included:

>>Should I stir more?  I don't stir much now, as it seems to cause the 
>>heat to disappear faster and I'm also concerned about HSA.
 
> No, don't stir during the lauter.  You're right about the HSA and
> heat,but also it will unset the grain bed.

Stirring the lauter is not great but it is also not bad.  What 
you want to do to increase efficiency/yield is to "knife" the
lauter beginning about halfway through the lautering.  Dont 
knife too deep, but by "rakeing" the grains you will help to 
eliminate channeling that can occur. 

OB Koch info:
SA Lager : Pittsburgh Brewing (aka Iron City) & Blitz-Weih.
SA Stock Ale: FX Matt (exclusively???)
SA Honey Porter: Strohs Plant, Lehigh Valley, PA. 

Good brewing,
Jim Busch


Return to table of contents

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1482, 07/22/94