FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Noise in the HBD...aaaargh! (pittock)
  Testing your capper (JEFF GUILLET)
  Anchor Steam beer recipe request. (Gerald_Wirtz)
  Wine Barrels (CCAC-LAD) <pwyluda at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  Grant's Scottish (HEWITT)
  IBU's (Douglas R. Jones)
  Re: Hold the Citrobacter (brewing chemist Mitch)
  Mashing FAQ update ("Palmer.John")
   (Powers)
  Re: Nitwits (Jeff Frane)
  Re: Using Licorce Sticks (Dion Hollenbeck)
   (Powers)
  Your favorite brewpubs in Seattle & Vancouver? (Jeff Sargent)
  Re: Fridges as heaters (John Taylor)
  Re: sanitizing/cleaning carboys & coffee stains (Kelvin Kapteyn)
  Thanks, Rakings, Pilsners, Pathogens (Jay Weissler)
  Hop Util and Garetz's book (Glenn Tinseth)
  Thermal Siphon (Terry Terfinko)
  Citrobacter/Agar/Yeast Propagation (Andrew Patrick)
   (Jim Curran)
  Dryhopping Alts?/citrobacter/Pete's/vacations (David Draper)
  answers -- get 'em while they're hot (Jeremy Ballard Bergsman)
  Airpumps and airstones? (Stephen Hudson)
  Anchor vs. Anchor Steam (Todd Wallinger)
  Bottle Carbonation Problems ("Lee A. Kirkpatrick"                       )
  re: yeast propigation (Eric Miller)
  Infusion Mash Outline (part I) (Kelvin Kapteyn)



******************************************************************
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**  through August 7. PLEASE be patient when requesting changes
**  or cancellations.
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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 19:06:50 +1000
From: pittock at rsbs8.anu.edu.au
Subject: Noise in the HBD...aaaargh!

Is it not possible for someone in the USA to do us all a favour & contact
this person, asking them to knock the infamous "vacation program" on the
head?  Am I right in predicting a copy of this message every day 'till Sept
6?! Whilst on that note, it would also be nice if it were possible to
screen out duplicate messages (especially bits of old HBDs!) **before**
they get to us.  Now, back to the brewing info...

>From: giraffe at ayla.Eng.Sun.COM (via the vacation program)
>I am out of the office Wednesday, July 28th to September 6th,
>on SunSoft business.  I am available by pager at 1-800-254-9607
>(direct) or 1-800-759-7243 w/ pin # 2549607.
>Jennifer Levy will be in contact with me often, so please call her
>if you have an urgent need.  Her extention is x64966.



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Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 22:42:00 GMT
From: jeff.guillet at lcabin.com (JEFF GUILLET)
Subject: Testing your capper

Paul writes about consistent bottle carbonation problems:

> Now...onto brewing itself. I appear to have a consistent problem with
> under-carbonation in my bottled finished product. Actually, under
> carbonation is probably the wrong term here....NO carbonation is more
> appropriate.

And Rob Reed suggested:

> ... maybe your capper or capping process does not give you a good seal?

I started thinking about this (dangerous) and came up with a test
for this.

How bout filling and capping a beer bottle with cold cola and capping it.
Let it warm up to room temp and shake the hell out of it.  The significant
amount of CO2 in the warm cola would hiss from under the cap if you've
got a loose seal.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Jeff Guillet    -    San Francisco, CA    -    <j.guillet at lcabin.com>
           Official Beer Taster for the 1996 Olympic Games
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

 -- SPEED 1.40 [NR]: Evaluation day 84...

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Date:           Thu, 28 Jul 94 8:30 EDT
From: Gerald_Wirtz at vos.stratus.com
Subject:        Anchor Steam beer recipe request.

     Anyone out there have any good extract recipes for Anchor Steam beer?

     Thanks in advance.

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Date:     Thu, 28 Jul 94 8:31:16 EDT
From: Paul Wyluda (CCAC-LAD) <pwyluda at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  Wine Barrels

I would like to query the community out there concerning wine barrels, or
containers.

In my locality (i.e., New Jersey), I've been unable to locate  reasonably
priced charred oak barrels.  I've been told that old wiskey barrels are 
acceptable, however they have to be scrubbed.  Not being a cooper, I'm not
knowledgeable enough to disassemble the barrel, scrub it, then reassemble
it.  In addition, virgin oak barrels that I have found were of the order 
of $175.00 each. I have located new 55 gallon steel drums, lined with
polyethylene, for $56.00 each. 

Either way, I've to make a decision soon on the purchase of a barrel since 
September is very near.  If any one out there in the community has any 
experience with either barrels (i.e., steel or oak), I would be interested 
in hearing from you.

Paul Wyluda

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Date:     Thu, 28 Jul 1994 08:55 EDT
From: HEWITT at arcges.arceng.com
Subject:  Grant's Scottish

    As luck would have it, I tried my first Grant's Scottish Ale
last night and was thoroughly impressed.  I recently departed on
a scottish ale impersonation homebrew quest, starting with Traquair
House Ale (Micah Millspaw recipe, OG was 1.125), and noticed the
posting by Chuck Webb for extract Grant's recepies.  I'll second
the request, but can we include all-grain suggestions in the responses?

Pat Hewitt:   hewitt at arceng.com

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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 08:18:35 -0600
From: djones at iex.com (Douglas R. Jones)
Subject: IBU's

OK. Maybe a silly question maybe not. But what exactly is an IBU besides
some measure of the hoppiness of beer. My second batch came out at 22.5 and
my 3rd batch at 13. What do these numbers mean?

The second batch used 1.75 ounces of Saaz (2.5% AU) at the beginning of a
60 minute boil, and 1 ounce of Hallertau Hersbrucker (1.5% AU) at boil + 40
minutes.

The third batch was 0.25 ounces of Saaz (2.5% AU) and 1 ounce of Hallertau
Hersbrucker (1.5% AU) at boil + 10 minutes, and 1 ounce of Saaz (4.6% AU)
at boil + 50. This was also a 60 minute boil.

Thanks,
Doug
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
'I am a traveler of                |    Douglas R. Jones
     both Time and Space'          |    IEX Corporation
       Led Zeppelin                |    (214)301-1307
                                   |    djones at iex.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 09:12:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: gellym at aviion.persoft.com (brewing chemist Mitch)
Subject: Re: Hold the Citrobacter

In HBD 1487, Tom Williams writes:

> Jeff Michalski wrote:
>
> *Citrobacter is a gram negative rod-shaped bacteria of the Enterobacteriaceae
> *family.  Its name is derived from the fact that can use citrate as its sole
> *carbon source.  It is not known to give "citrus" flavors in beer.  It is an
> *opportunistic human pathogen and its presence in food or drink can give a
> *(susceptible) individual diarrhea and rarely sepsis, a fatal blood infection.
>
> Whoa!  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it cited through various HB sources
> that nothing (bacteria, fungi, etc.) dangerous (read "pathogenic") can survive
> in beer?  Sure, you may end up with really lousy tasting brew, but running to
> the crapper or being buried following a fatal blood infection are far removed
> from the *safe* aspects of this hobby.  I appreciate the attempts to shed some
> light on the subject, but taking the extreme position "watch out, your mistake
> may kill you," does nothing to promote this exciting, and IMHO *SAFE*, hobby.
>    (BTW: I'm I the only one who noticed this?)


Tom, I believe what Jeff was pointing out was that Al was mistaken, and the
citrus problem was *not* citrobacter, and further went on to explain a little
about the properties of citrobacter.

At no time was it ever mentioned that citrobacter could live in your beer.

Just wanted to set your mind at ease.

Brew on,

Mitch

- -- 
|                       - Mitch Gelly -                        | Zack Norman |
|  software QA specialist, systems administrator, zymurgist,   |     is      |
| AHA/HWBTA beer judge, & president of the Madison Homebrewers |  Sammy in   |
|      - gellym at aviion.persoft.com - gelly at persoft.com -       | Chief Zabu  |

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Date: 28 Jul 1994 08:33:20 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Mashing FAQ update

For everyone who didn't know or may have forgotten, a Mashing FAQ is in the
works and has been since January? but the scheduled release date keeps
slipping. I have received good inputs from several regulars in the Digest: Jim
Busch,  Dion Hollenbeck, Kelvin Kapteyn, Al Korzonas, Norm Pyle, John Wyllie,
et al.
The Malted Grains list published recently by Jim Busch is a component of the
FAQ, so believe me, we haven't spaced on it, its coming.
 For explanation of the delay, I offer the following.

Top 10 Reasons the Mash FAQ has been Delayed:
10. The computer ate the file.
9. We Moved, and the home computer is still boxed up.
8. Can't find the Disk its stored on, although I know which box its in.
7. The backup disk is 1 of 300 in that box.
6. Work has gotten busier.
5. Without seasons, you can only mark time via earthquakes and brushfires.
4. I took some time to do Rev D of How to Brew Your First Beer.
3. Space Station subcontractors are whining about cost impacts.
2. Its Norm's fault.    (just kidding, needed one more)
and 
1. Its become a FAQ tradition around here.

Right now I would say the FAQ is at the 75% stage with an intended release date
of mid September. It WILL get done. Thanks for your patience,
John Palmer 
MDA-SSD M&P

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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 11:33:53 -0400
From: Powers <powersb at dso035.sch.ge.com>
Subject: 


homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.comomebr

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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 08:48:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Frane <gummitch at teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Nitwits

Can we assume that the same nitwit that managed to send his plaint about
mail-order mistreatment to the digest six times is also responsible for
sending the digest to the digest four or five times?  Hey, Martin! this
guy seems to work for PacBell.  Can't you do something??????

- --Jeff


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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 09:45:02 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Using Licorce Sticks

>>>>> "Chris" == Chris Strickland <stricklandc at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov> writes:

Chris> I'm going to make a porter using a licorce stick.  When should
Chris> I put the licorce stick in?

Put it in a plastic baggie and smash it thoroughly and dump it in at
the beginning of the boil.  This will ensure it dissolves by the end
of the boil.  Just use one stick per 5 gals.  Licorice taste will be
more pronounced while beer is "green" but mellow off to almost
undetectable as licorice after aging.  There is an additional flavor,
but it does not jump out and sya "I am licorice".

While I have no scientific evidence to back up my methods, I did
receive a first place in an AHA competition with my Black Bottom Ale.
This is basically a very high gravity porter with some magic
ingredients and licorice.  Recipe is available if you desire.

dion

Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 13:09:13 -0400
From: Powers <powersb at dso035.sch.ge.com>
Subject: 


Hi,

 I'm a relatively new brewer, and have been reading the digest 
for about a month and find it fascinating. I brew with extracts 
now in a small SS pot. I need to buy a larger pot and in anticipation
of going to grain, I would like to find a 33 quart like I've seen
mentioned numerous times in the HBD. Any suggestions? 
Private e-mail will be fine.

Bob Powers
powersb at dso035.sch.ge.com

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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 12:15:43 -0500
From: jeff_sargent at il.us.swissbank.com (Jeff Sargent)
Subject: Your favorite brewpubs in Seattle & Vancouver?

I'm going to be vacationing up in Seattle & Vancouver later this  
summer and am looking for brewpub recommendations.  I'd also be  
interested in non-brewing bars w/lots o' microbrewed beer on tap.
Let me know of your favorites!  Send replies to  
sargent at il.us.swissbank.com   


Thanks!
 - Jeff

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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 13:36:47 EDT
From: jt at harris.mlb.semi.harris.com (John Taylor)
Subject: Re: Fridges as heaters

In HBD 1486, ANDY WALSH <awalsh at ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> 
> Has anyone considered using a fridge to keep your fermenting 
> beer warm in winter?
> 
At Auburn U. (War Eagle!) we used an old fridge with a 60 W light bulb
inside to keep welding electrodes dry. It got quite toasty inside.
Obviously you could control the temperature with one of the many
thermostat designs/ideas that have been posted here, although most of
the designs have concentrated on keeping things cold. Or, you could use
this design found on page 18 of _Oscilloscopes: Selecting and Restoring
a Classic_, by Stan Griffiths (ISBN 0-9633071-5-0):

    You will also need a drying oven to put the instrument in after
    washing it to completely drive the water out of it.  These are
    available commercially for several thousand dollars, but you can
    build one like I did for about $20.  I started with an old
    refrigerator (free) and removed the ice box and all of the parts
    used to make it cold inside.  At this point, I had a well insulated
    box that would hold one scope and several plug-ins.  To heat it, I
    wired an outlet box inside it at the very bottom and plugged two
    hot plates (which I bought at a thrift store for a few dollars)
    into it.  The temperature needs to be regulated in the 120 to 130
    degree F region, and this is easily accomplished by using a hot
    water heater thermostat wired to shut off the hot plates when the
    temperature gets too high.  This thermostat is the expensive part
    and costs about $10 at a plumbing supply store.

The "several thousand dollar" oven he mentions above is known in the
food service industry as a "proofing cabinet" or "proofing oven".  They
are used to keep fermenting bread dough at its optimal temperature.
They are available from Superior Products (800 number has been posted
before, and I can't find it right now), but you can probably find a
used one for significantly less at a used restaurant equipment supplier
or at an auction.  They have a small heater and a fan to circulate the
warm air, and a thermostat.  Often there is a glass panel in the door
so you can watch the dough rise without opening the door and disrupting
the temperature.

Hope this helps!

jt

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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 13:46:44 -0400
From: Kelvin Kapteyn <kelvink at mtu.edu>
Subject: Re: sanitizing/cleaning carboys & coffee stains

Mark talks about using "sodium bisulfate" for sanitization.  I think you
mean sodium bisulfite or meta-bisulfite.  It should be the equivalent of 
potassium meta-bisulfite.  These are generally considered to be ineffective as
a sanitizer for beer, although they are commonly used for wine.  The difference
is in the ph of beer compared to wine.  The much lower ph of wine results
in the release of sulfur dioxide, which is what controls the bacteria and
wild yeast.  The amount of sulfur dioxide that is released depends heavily
on the ph.  The critical ph for this discussion is around 3.4.  At a ph that
is substantially above this (typical of most beers, unless you are making
a Flanders brown, I suppose), it would require a LARGE amount of potassium or 
sodium meta-bisulfite to release enough free sulfur dioxide to do the job.  
Unfortunately, I have not seen any authors directly address exactly what
is a "large" amount, or how much is needed at what ph above 3.4.  I believe
Papazian (and probably others) mention that sulfite is ineffective in beer
brewing.  For the sake of bandwidth, I won't go into more detail here.  

The bottom line is, I don't recommend using sulfite as a sanitizer when
brewing beer.  I currently use a moderate bleach solution, followed by
a tap water rinse, followed by a weak water and iododine (iodophor) rinse
for my carboys, racking canes, etc.  A strong iodine (or whatever strong
sanitizer) rinse followed by tap water followed by weak iodine rinse should 
also work.  The directions on some bottles (not mine) recommend rinsing or
drying after the weak iodine rinse (or so I've been told)  I don't currently
rinse the weak solution out. 

I use only a soak in moderate bleach water followed by tap water rinse for my 
beer bottles.  I have had only two gushers out of several hundred bottles so 
far, and one of those was a swing top (Grolsh) bottle that I probably was 
careless with.  The other was with a very young weizen beer that might be over 
carbonated (it's too early to tell for sure).  I don't like baking my bottles 
since I have heard that it will weaken them.  


Continuing the thread on cleaning carboys, I have also found a stong bleach
solution to do the trick.  Make sure you only use warm (not hot) water, 
because that's how two of our brewers have ended up depositing a bleach based 
deposit on their carboys that was REALLY hard to get off!  I might try the
B-brite or automatic dishwasher soap sometime in the future, but the strong
bleach is working so far.  

A small note, not related to brewing:  When I worked in the restaurant 
business, we used water or ice with a liberal sprinkle of regular table salt 
to take off coffee stains.  It works incredibly well, no scratching, not much 
scrubbing!  I think this is pretty specific to coffee (and perhaps tea) stains.
I would be surprised if it worked on the usual carboy crud.

 -Kelvin     (kelvink at mtu.edu)

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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 12:58:16 -0500
From: jay_weissler at il.us.swissbank.com (Jay Weissler)
Subject: Thanks, Rakings, Pilsners, Pathogens

First thanks to all who pointed me to the listserv, especially all of  
those who DIDN'T flame me for not being able to read.

Cat's Meow is short on grain only Pilsner recipes. Can anyone provide  
any?

I'm interested in this raking the lauter issue. Is it possible that  
raking extracts something other than sugar, raising the specific  
gravity (and apparent efficiency) without actually doing the end  
product any good? BTW does tannin add to or subtract from SG? Is  
there any resonable (read: accurate and affordable) test for sugar  
content other than SG?

Like Tom William's I've always heard that pathogens can't survive in  
beer. I also believe our hobby is safe, however, after thinking about  
it, I'm now willing to concede that if my old college roomates could  
live in beer other dangerous nasties can as well.
Thanks
jayw

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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 12:05:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glenn Tinseth <gtinseth at willamette.edu>
Subject: Hop Util and Garetz's book

CMorris at orv.mitre.org raises some interesting issues re: the 
alpha acid utilization information in Mark Garetz's new 
book, _Using_Hops_.  Let me start with a disclaimer. Mark 
and I are friendly competitors in the homebrew hop trade. I 
*do* recommend his book and think it makes a good addition 
to my library. Look for my review of the book in the next 
issue of Brewing Techniques.

In the most simple model, two things have to happen before 
your beer is bitter:

1.  Hop alpha acids must dissolve in your wort and,
2.  the alpha acids (AA) must be isomerized to iso-alpha
    acids (IAA).

The isomerization reaction is, in general, first order. This 
means that the rate of production of IAAs is directly 
proportional to the concentration of AAs. 

	rate of IAA production = k*[AA]

another way of writing this is,

	[IAA]  = 1 - [AAo]*exp(-k*t)

where k is the rate constant, [AA] is the AA concentration 
in the wort, [IAA] is the IAA concentration in the wort, 
[AAo] is the initial AA concentration in the wort, exp is 
the exponential function,  and t is time. These equations 
don't model the overall utilization, only the isomerization 
reaction in the boil. The shape of the curve of [IAA] vs. 
time is roughly,

| [IAA]                              
|                     ___________---------
|             __------                     
|           -                               
|         /                                 
|       /                                   
|     /                                     
|    |                                   
|   |                                       
|  |                                        
| |                                       
||                                    time 
|__________________________________________ 

However, if the AAs are slow to dissolve in the wort, the AA 
concentration is lower and the rate of production of IAAs is 
lower. This could result in the curve looking more like,

| [IAA]                              
|                              __________
|                      __------                     
|                   --                               
|                 /                                 
|               /                                   
|              |                                     
|             |                                   
|            |                                       
|           /                                        
|          /                                       
|        /                               
|___----                             time
|__________________________________________ 

As you can see, the first curve puts more IAAs in the wort 
quicker, and the second curve has a time lag while the AAs 
are dissolving. While Mark claims that AAs dissolve very 
quickly in the wort, his numbers look more like the second 
curve. I'm not sure what gives, or even where to look to 
find the references since Mark decided not to reference his 
book (a major nit, IMO).

All of Mark's util claims are based on the literature and 
industry numbers. He didn't do test brews to see if the 
numbers and data meshed with homebrewing results. I'm, 
holding off using the new Garetz numbers until they have 
been proven to be useful to homebrewers. 

Hopefully the research the Martin Manning, Jim Liddil, 
Domenick Venezia, and I are working on will answer some of 
these questions. Due to the generosity of a certain HBD 
personality, Al Korzonas of Sheaf and Vine HB Supply, the 
test brews should begin in the next couple weeks and results 
should start trickling in sometime this fall. We're 
investigating the hop util issue in excrutiating detail and 
hope to come up with a model based on real life homebrewers 
and their methods. No more speculation, assertion, or 
conjecture.

Glenn

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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 15:22:59 EDT
From: terfintt at ttown.apci.com (Terry Terfinko)
Subject: Thermal Siphon

     I plan to make some improvements to my hot liquor tank.  Currently the
tank consists of a SS 1/2 barrel with a water heater element mounted near
the bottom.  This method of heating causes the water temp to be stratified and
needs to be stirred to blend to a consistent temperature.  
     I am considering mounting the water heater element in a two inch 
piece of copper pipe.  This pipe would have an elbow on one end connected to
the bottom of the tank and a tee on the other.  The tee would have a 2 inch
to 1 inch reducer in one end to accept the element.  The top of the tee would
be used for the water outlet.  My question is whether the heated water in the
pipe will naturally rise and flow out and up to the top of the tank.  I know
that gravity heating systems work this way, but my design will not be a 
closed system.  Is there a way to calculate how much rise I could expect?
I was advised that the outlet should be larger than the inlet.  Any advice
would be appreciated.

Terry Terfinko - terfintt at ttown.apci.com


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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 13:41:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: Andrew Patrick <andnator at mcs.com>
Subject: Citrobacter/Agar/Yeast Propagation

TJWILLIA%OCC.bitnet at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Writes

>Jeff Michalski wrote:
>
>>Citrobacter is a gram negative rod-shaped bacteria of the Enterobacteriaceae
   <-snip->
>>It is an opportunistic human pathogen and its presence in food or drink can
>>give a (susceptible) individual diarrhea and rarely sepsis
   <-snip->

>Whoa!  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it cited through various HB sources
>that nothing (bacteria, fungi, etc.) dangerous (read "pathogenic") can survive
>in beer?
   <-snip->
>(BTW: I'm I the only one who noticed this?)

You are correct, pathogens cannot grow in beer.  Neither do Gram Negative
bacterial species.  You noticed incorrectly, however.  Jeff made no mention
of this bacteria growing in beer.  An oversite on Jeff's description perhaps.
This is quite a bonus for brewers and probably a very good thing as well.
If nature had made the process differently, I doubt beer would exist in its
present form.

*****

GONTAREK at FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV  Writes :

>Regarding yeast culturing for the home brewer: I
>have made some malt/agar plates for growing some yeast, but they
>tend to run. <-snip-> What's the trick?

Try obtaining YM agar.  This fortified agar is designed to grow yeast
and molds while inhibiting bacteria.

*****

aa3625 at freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu (Jason Sloan) Writes :

>I am aware that some microbreweries use cylindroconical vessels to
>propagate their yeasts.  I have an idea but the question of autolysis
>comes directly to mind. What other ways can a brewery propagate their
>yeast?

The cones of the vessels are cooled to prevent autolysis.  Most breweries
simply "harvest" the yeast from the main fermentation.  If things start
getting weird, a new culture is grown up from either an isolated colony,
or from the yeast bank, similar to the way we HBers make starters.

With proper controlled additions of glucose and oxygen and agitation over
time, yeast can be built up to hugh quantities.  This is how the bread yeast
companys grow their products.  Properly controlled conditions must be
stressed to prevent Anerobic fermentation from occuring.  This is probably
uneccesary for most HBers.  Once the volume of yeast is built up, it can then
be used for wort fermentation.

=> Rich Larsen (708)388-3514  Home Brew University-BBS (708)705-7263

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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 17:08:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Curran <curran at wfu.edu>
Subject: 

Can someone help me with a recipe for an excellent beer that I had the
pleasure of sampling in Ireland?  It's called "Smithwick's Ale", and I
can't quite identify the style.  It tastes like a very malty, but not at
all sweet, brown ale.  The hops are completely undetectable (by me), but
they aren't missed.  It's very common in Ireland, I found it all over the
island (over there, they probably view it the way I view "Millers"). 

I've tried to duplicate it with variations on recipes for Alt beers and
brown ales, but nothing I've tried comes close.  I'd greatly appreciate
any help. 

Jim Curran.   "Give a man a beer and he wastes an hour...
               Teach him to brew and he wastes a lifetime."


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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 08:19:40 +1000 (EST)
From: David Draper <David.Draper at mq.edu.au>
Subject: Dryhopping Alts?/citrobacter/Pete's/vacations

Dear Friends, several topics today.  I am curious whether alt.bier should
be dry-hopped.  My info sources (MJ's Beer Companion and Millers World's
Great Beers) give varying info; MJ notes lots of hops in the finish but
it's unclear about dry-hopping.  What do you experienced alt.brewers say?

Tom Williams suspects (HBD 1487) that J Michalski's comments on
citrobacter were intended to suggest that lethal bugs could end up in our
beer.  I didn't read it that way at all; sounded to me like Dr. M. was
simply pointing out what he knows (which is a lot) about what citrobacter
*is*, in response to Al's suggestion, with which he obviously disagrees. 

Someone (sorry) asked about making a Pete's Wicked clone--I'd say 1056 is
a good choice, from my recollections of it (been awhile though), struck me
as being a little drier than you might get with, say, 1084.  There has
been a thread on r.c.b. recently suggesting that Pete's uses Chinook in
the kettle, so you might want to try that.

Finally, HBD 1487 was about one-third taken up with long automagical
responses and resend requests from those who are either vacationing or
away on business.  As much as I appreciate knowing that a fellow Digestive
is coming through Sydney soon, I would respectfully suggest that
Digestives who are going to be away simply unsubscribe before leaving and
resubscribe upon their return.  Doing this takes all of what, 30 seconds? 
We will all thank you for it.

Cheers, Dave in Sydney

- -- 
******************************************************************************
David S. Draper			School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University
david.draper at mq.edu.au		NSW 2109 Sydney, Australia
Fax: +61-2-805-8428		Voice: +61-2-805-8347

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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 15:48:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeremy Ballard Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: answers -- get 'em while they're hot

cmorris at orv.mitre.org writes about Mark Garetz' new book's hop 
utilization numbers:
- ---------Start quote---------------------
                    Fix      Rager      Garetz    Garetz w/CF =1

Total Hops [g]     63.80     70.9       209.7      182.7
Total Hops [oz]     2.25      2.5         7.4        6.4

The question I must raise here is that while the Rager and Fix
utilization rates might not have been optimal  - is it possible that
they were off by a factor of 200% to 220% ???

Observation:  Where Mark's boil time numbers have a significant impact
on hop weight calculations are in the additions with 0-15 min. boil
times. 
- --------End quote-------------------------------
I haven't read Mark's book so I can't comment on that but it seems
to me that what you have done is to keep the amount of bitterness
contributed by each addition constant.  If so this is the reason for
the big differences.  What you really want to do is keep the late
additions the same (in weight), but use the "correct" formula,
whatever that is, to calculate the bitterness contributed by
those late additions.  You then need to use the "correct" formula
to figure out how big of an early addition you need to achieve your
desired bitterness level.  

The metric of "Total Hops" is not good here since a small change in
the utilization factor of the late addition (which is poor) will make
a big change in the amount of hops needed to contribute the same
bitterness.  We shouldn't be figuring out the amount of late hops to
use based on their %AA, just using the %AA and the utilization to
figure out how much early hops to use.

FWIW the table in Mark's catalog is very close to the numbers I
worked out empirically for my system.
- ----------------------------------------------
GONTAREK at FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV writes for help improving his yield
and on making agar plates:

IMHO there are three keys to getting good all-grain yield:

1) Do not overheat any part of the mash (stir, stir, stir 
while adding heat).
2) Have sufficient Ca in the mash (>50ppm)
3) Do not try to lauter too fast.  I do 5 min/gal.

My water has a good pH and low CO3 so I have no opinion there.  Others seem
to think it important.

If you measure the s.g. of the mash (strain out the grain)
you can determine whether the problem is with mashing or
with lautering.
- ----------Start quote----------------------------   
Regarding yeast culturing for the home brewer: I
have made some malt/agar plates for growing some yeast, but they
tend to run.  Adding more agar didn't help.  I am a biologist
with accesss to lots of LB plates, so I was wondering if anyone
has cultured yeast on these plates.  I tried it once on an
LB plate, but was surprised when it took three days at 30 degreesC
for any colonies to show up.  What's the trick?
- ----------End quote----------------------------------
What do you mean by run?  Plates need to dry, but you probably
know that.  I use YPD plates: 1% Yeast extract, 2% peptone, 2%
dextrose, 2% agar, all from Difco.  Yeast grow a lot more slowly than
bacteria.  I grow mine at RT and 3 days is typical for nice 1.5 mm colonies.
Note: LB has little simple sugar.  
- ------------------------------------------
Thanks to cg0scs <G.A.Cooper at greenwich.ac.uk> for the Durden Park
amber/brown malt info.  Is that 25 color of carapils an EBC rating?
- -----------------------------------------------------------
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu

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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 09:08:47 EDT
From: mop3 at midas.HO.BOM.GOV.AU (Stephen Hudson)
Subject: Airpumps and airstones?

Any suggestions for type/size for an (aquarium) airpump to aerate 23 litres
(6 US gallons) of wort? Should the air in-line have some sort of filter
attached to it? Also would sort and size airstone should I use? Are there
any special sanitation precautions to take with airstones?

TIA

Stephen Hudson
Finance & Supply Section                              phone: +61 3 669-4563
Bureau of Meteorology                                   fax: +61 3 669-4254
Melbourne Victoria AUSTRALIA                    e-mail: s.hudson at bom.gov.au

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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 17:27:12 MDT
From: wall at simtek.com (Todd Wallinger)
Subject: Anchor vs. Anchor Steam

Regarding the current discussion about Singapore's Anchor Beer:
 
> 2) For a long time a beer named Anchor has been brewed in Singapore and
> Malaysia...[saga deleted]...beers disappeared...
> ...and when they came back there was no more Anchor.
> Was this because of Mr. Maytag? 

Anchor Beer (without the "Steam") is still being produced in Singapore.
I was in Singapore last month and had some of it while I was there. It
was a truly forgettable beer (definitely not worth the trip!). 

I doubt there was ever a trademark issue with Anchor Steam Beer. A 
trademark must be obtained for each country on an individual basis, 
and since Anchor Steam is not exported to Singapore it would not 
be worth Mr. Maytag's time or money to get a trademark there.

                                            Todd 

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Date:    Thu, 28 Jul 94 22:51 EDT
From: "Lee A. Kirkpatrick" <WPSSLAK%WMMVS.BITNET at VTBIT.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: Bottle Carbonation Problems

   I'm a relatively new subscriber and have been lurking, with
nothing much useful to contribute, until the thread on
carbonation problems developed.  I learned a surprisingly
easy way to prevent carbonation in bottles and thought I'd
share it:  Boil your bottle caps for too long.  I was losing
up to a half-dozen bottles per batch before I happened to look
at a cap from a non-carbonated bottle, and noticed that the
inner seal was clearly distorted out of round.  I had been
boiling the caps for ten to fifteen minutes, rather than the
five recommended by Papazian.  I suppose by coincidence I
might just have had bad caps then and have good ones now, but
I haven't had the problem with a single bottle since cutting
my cap-boiling time to five minutes.
   I'll be back out lurking in the shadows if you need me.
- --Lee Kirkpatrick (wpsslak at wmmvs.cc.wm.edu)

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Date:        Thu, 28 Jul 94 21:49:04 CDT
From: Eric Miller <GHMILLER at MUSIC.LOYNO.EDU>
Subject: re: yeast propigation

yesterday Jason asks:
>I am aware that some microbreweries use cylindroconical vessels to
propagate their yeasts.  I have seen one only once and that was
through plate glass.  I was wondering how the yeast was propagated.
I have an idea but the question of autolysis comes directly to mind.
Will someone who knows please tell me?  What other ways can a
brewery propagate their yeast?

Well, I dunno about other micros, but at the brewpub I work at
(which shall remain nameless) we just rack off the beer after lagering,
leaving the yeast slurry in the bottom part of the cone (the racking
valve is about 18 inches from the bottom). It sits there until we
need the tank, at which point we drain the slurry into a plastic pail
for storage until the next batch needs to be pitched. We don't do
nuttin to that yeast (hence the namelessness of the brewpub)
Eric Miller
ghmiller at music.loyno.edu
>>>insert your own personally offensive sig line here<<<

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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 23:37:01 -0400
From: Kelvin Kapteyn <kelvink at mtu.edu>
Subject: Infusion Mash Outline (part I)

   I didn't want to post this due to its length, but Aidan tells me he got 15
requests for it.  I guess that is enough to merit posting the thing.  

Enjoy,

 -Kelvin        (kelvink at mtu.edu)

p.s.  Those of you who got a copy from Aidan might notice a few small (and
basically insignificant) changes.  I proof-read it again and added a couple
of comments before posting.

- ----------------------- snip here ----------------------------------

I have borrowed from Papazian; TNCJOHB, and others, and tried to boil it
down (sorry) into one outline.  I expect that people will have to make small
adjustments to their equipment, etc.  The references to Houghton refer to
the town I live in.  I originally wrote this for fellow club members who were
thinking about mashing, but hadn't yet.  It is meant to be a quick reference
to help somebody get started.  It is also something you can keep out when
brewing, because you can always print out another copy if you mess it up! (Did
somebody say "boilover"!  :-(  )


Outline on Single and Multi-Step Infusion Mashing


Single Step Infusion Mash:

Mash in with 1 quart water (166 deg. F) per pound of grain. (Just pour the
grain into the water or water into grain and stir.) Expect a 16 deg. F drop in
temperature when you add the grain. (If your grain is at 50 to 55 degrees,
try using 168 deg. water.)

 -stabilize at 149-158 deg. F** and rest for 1 to 1 1/2 hour. If you can do an
iodine test, conversion should be complete. If you don't want to worry
about it, you can let it rest for 1 1/2 to 2 hours. by that time further conver-
sion is unlikely. This is the starch conversion rest.

Optional: add heat, or 1 cup water per pound of boiling water per pound of
grain to bring temperature to 170 (to 175) deg. F for 10 min.

Sparge with 2 quarts of water (165-175 deg. F) per pound of grain.

 -Sparging refers to "rinsing" the sugars out of the grains and into your wort.
sparging should take 1 1/2 to 2 hours for maximum extraction. Less time
won't hurt anything, but you will leave some sugars in the grain. try to
keep a small amount of water above the grain when sparging. It's best not
to let the surface drop below the top of the grains.

**note: if your recipe calls for a lower or higher starch conversion temper-
ature, take the recipe's conversion temperature and add 16 deg. F to get the
starting temperature of your water. Lower temperatures are for "thinner",
but more alcoholic beers, higher temperatures for more body and sweeter,
but less alcoholic beers, 151 to 153 deg. F is a good compromise. Also, a
rest at a higher temperature such as 158 deg. F will finish much quicker,
and could be done in 15 to 20 minutes.

* If your mash drops in temperature 5 deg. F or even a little more during
the conversion rest, don't worry about it. The most important thing is the
temperature at the start and the first 10 or 15 minutes after that.

* Conversion temperatures of 151-152 deg. F are typical for British beers,
and for other pale ales. A starting conversion temperature of 148-149 will
result in a dryer, thinner beer. A starting temperature of 158 deg. F will
result in a thicker, more dextrinous (sweeter) beer. In addition, conversions
at 158 deg. F should be done in 15 to 20 minutes, and further conversion is
unlikely much beyond 1/2 hr.

* If you can check ph, ideal mash ph is 5.2 - 5.3, anything between 5.0 and
5.5 is OK. Lower ph with Gypsum, raise ph with baking soda, and if you
can't check ph, don't worry about it, it's usually OK by itself anyway!

* Don't worry! come as close as you can to the starting temperatures, an
things should work out fine.


Two Step Infusion Mash:

Mash in with 1 quart of water (131 deg. F) per pound of grain. Expect a 9
deg. F drop in temperature from adding the grain.

 -stabilize at 122 deg. F mix and let rest for 10 to 20 minutes (protein rest to
develop yeast nutrients and to reduce proteins that might contribute to chill
haze in your beer.)

Add 1/2 quart of water (200 deg F) per pound of grain. (could try 1 1/2 cup
boiling water)

 -stabilize at 149-152 deg. F* and hold for 1 to 1 1/2 hour. If doing an iodine
test, start checking at 45 or 60 min. Conversion should be done by one
hour. If not done in 1 1/2 hour, can continue to rest, but further conversion
is unlikely. (starch conversion rest. 149 deg. F will result in a large amount
of fermentable sugars and a relatively small amount of dextrins.)


- --------------------------(end part I)---------------------------

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1488, 07/29/94