HOMEBREW Digest #1539 Thu 29 September 1994

Digest #1538 Digest #1540

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Re: Pumpkin Brew--"Monster Mash" (00bkpickeril)
  Old Malt? ("KFONS Q/T INV CNTRL .. 7814")
  Aphid Ale ("Joseph A. Lenzini")
  Top ten (Ed Westemeier)
  Longer Sparge Times (Terry Terfinko)
  broken carboys (Raymond J. Deininger)
  Brahma/Antarctica ("Houseman, David L [TR]")
  Re: Sam's Triple Bock ("Eichler, David")
  Demerara Sugar - Practical Advice (Art Steinmetz)
  Lost Brewbud\Lactic Acid (Frank J. Leers)
  CO2 life (Bob Jones)
  Re: Beer Chiller? (Cooling plate) (djt2)
  Softened water, chlorine, yeasts (Nancy.Renner)
  Dispense equipment? (Tony Urban)
  starter timing (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  50/60 Hz Motors ("Tomlinson, James")
  Process for Removing Lead From Brass. ("Palmer.John")
  Brewpubs in Chicago area (Ted Benning)
  cold break and protein rests (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Duvel & Triples (Patrick Casey)
  IBU post correction! (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Removing Labels from Bottles ("Geiser, Chris        [RB-4851]")
  Hops rhizomes (Carolyne Kincy)
  eisbock recipe request (Greg Fisk)
  Re: Help with carbonation and head retention (David Elm)
  hard cider book??? (APPLIED METAPHYSICIST)
  Demerera ("Michael Scroggie")

****************************************************************** * NEW POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail, * I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list * that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox * is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced * mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days. * * If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only * sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get * more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list. ****************************************************************** Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:48:16 -0500 (EST) From: 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu Subject: Re: Pumpkin Brew--"Monster Mash" > If I were to throw some pumpkin in the secondary with the intent of > coming up with a seasonal twist, how would I go about preparing the > pumpkin and how much do you suppose I should put in? > > -Tom > tpratt at sun.com Since it's only 4 days till October, and there is still time to brew this before halloween, I'll post this to the digest... There is a "Last Drop" column on this in the back of the Fall 1994 Zymurgy, page 108. The author, Alan Barnes, made it sound pretty difficult to get a decent run off with pumpkin in the mash. Thinking that "the pulp would clog the sparge bed and prevent a good runoff," he chopped up some large pieces of raw pumpkin, cooked them slightly to soften them, grated those, and added the grated pumpkin to the mash. He later says that the mash was "like tapioca pudding" in his Zapap lauter tun, and that with "lifting and droping" was only able to get 6 of 9 gallons to sparge. He says it had a pretty color, terrible aroma and a harsh flavor that went away in about a year of aging. He also had too much nutmeg and/or mace flavor that did not go away in what he called the "beer from hell." >From reading this article, perhaps you should not cut up the pumpkin pieces too much, say in 1 inch squares. Maybe you could add some pureed (sp?) pumpkin to the boil and avoid the mash altogether. He started by saying that he saw the recipe in Zymurgy. I looked but did not see the recipe in the summer issue. Overall the article was well written and timely, but it didn't leave me with an overpowering urge to try this "Monster Mash." - --Brian Pickerill <00bkpickeril at leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu> Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 22:55:48 -0500 (CDT) From: "KFONS Q/T INV CNTRL .. 7814" <KFONS at china.qgraph.com> Subject: Old Malt? I have some bag in a box type malt which is about 18 months old. I was wondering if it was still OK to use? It is from Northwestern, and is a gold malt in a 3.3 lb bag. I have 10 boxes which I basically got free. The problem is I brew dark beers most of the time. If it is good, I would love to trade it for some dark malt. Kevin Fons Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 07:03:40 -0500 (CDT) From: "Joseph A. Lenzini" <jlenzini at mail.more.net> Subject: Aphid Ale In HBD #1529 KenB. talks of aphids on his hops. He also reports finding lady bug larvae. I read an article in Runner's World (TM) a year or two ago concerning the effects of swallowing bugs while running. I've been searching my back issues so I could quote the article, but I couldn't find it. The gist of the article was that bugs (they didn't mention aphids explicitly) are pretty nutritious (full of protein), so it's probably alright to bottle the aphids (you may want to consult an entomologist first to be on the safe side). The article did however state that you shouldn't be eating lady bugs because they are toxic. One lady bug probably wouldn't make you too sick, but two or more would be pretty bad. So, ixnay on the Lady Bug Lager. While I'm on the subject, I would like to pass on a recipe for a snack you can serve along with your Aphid Ale. This was served at the San Francisco Zoo's Insect Zoo open house. I was not there, I just have the recipe. SIX LEG SURPRISE 8 hard-cooked eggs 3 tbsp. onion juice 2 tbsp. dairy sour cream 1/4 cup mealworms, chopped vegetable oil minced garlic, to taste Peel eggs; cut in half lengthwise. Remove yolks from eggs; set whites aside. Mash yolks with onion juice and sour cream. Saute mealworms with garlic in a little hot vegetable oil. Add mealworm mixture to yolk mixture. Use to fill reserved egg whites. Yield: 16 stuffed eggs. Joe L. - St. Mary's Brewery jlenzini at mail.more.net Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 08:18:14 +0500 From: ed.westemeier at sdrc.com (Ed Westemeier) Subject: Top ten Dan McConnell asks: > Has anyone tried Brahma Chopp, Cerveja Antarctica or Polar? > Please don't tell me that they are similar to the first 4 on > the list. Sorry, Dan! I don't know about Polar, but I lived in Brazil for several years in the late 80s, and I'm VERY familiar with Brahma and Antarctica. The word Chopp (also spelled Chope) is Brazilian Portuguese for "Draft." It's pronounced "Show-pee." Brahma (one of the biggest breweries in the world, sort of a South American A-B) uses it just as Miller uses the word "Draft" on their beer in this country. Both Brahma and Antarctica are standard, German-style pilseners, and both are now available in the US. I feel that both have more flavor than the typical products of the US megabreweries, and are very well made beers. I personally prefer Antarctica over Brahma. Both are very good when fresh. Although Brazilians generally prefer their beer ice cold, some real flavor comes through if you let it warm up for a bit. Unfortunately, neither beer travels well. All samples I have had in this country have been stale. I highly recommend a visit to Brazil, not especially for the chance to enjoy these, (there isn't much in the way of really worldl-class beer in South America), but it's a wonderful country. Ed Westemeier (just passed the magic point total for National judge!) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 8:32:44 EDT From: terfintt at ttown.apci.com (Terry Terfinko) Subject: Longer Sparge Times After reading several articles on sparge times, I have increased the sparge time on my 5 gallon batches from 20 minutes to 45. This resulted in a significant improvement in my extraction rates which went from 27- 29 to 31-34. I would like to extend this time to at least 60 minutes. I would be interested in any tips from the HBD on how to control the flow at a very slow rate. I use a Phil's sparge arm which will spin at my current rate of flow, but will stop if I slow down the flow any further. I try to maintain a half inch liquid level over the grains. This usually requires adjusting the outflow valve several times to maintain this level. The process could be automated if the infow valve could be automatically closed when the half inch level above the grain is reached. This would avoid the need to keep readjusting the outflow valve. Has anyone designed an automatic shutoff? I am toying with building some kind of simple float system. Any suggestion would be appreciated. Terry Terfinko - terfintt at ttown.apci.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 08:20:00 EDT From: ray at mita.com (Raymond J. Deininger) Subject: broken carboys Hello all, The broken carboy issue got me to thinkin... Since there are some inherent problems with plastics, why not coat the outside of the glass carboy with a plastic so if the thing does drop the glass remains inside the plastic shell. That will maintain all the usefulness of glass and make it safer to handle in the event of accidents. ============================================================================== Ray Deininger, MITA, Inc. | The image | voice: (215) 513-0440 29 Main Street P.O. Box 197| translation | fax : (215) 513-0442 Mainland PA. 19451 | specialists | e-mail: ray at mita.com ============================================================================== Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 09:08:00 PDT From: "Houseman, David L [TR]" <DLH1 at trpo3.Tredydev.Unisys.com> Subject: Brahma/Antarctica Dan McConnell asks if anyone has tried several of the beers on the Top Ten (by volume) list? While visiting in San Paulo, Brazil I did have the opportunity to drink many of the local beers (cerveja - Portugese for beer) including Brahma and Antarctica. The chopp (draft) was much better than bottled, but that true of most beers anyway. Both are lighter lagers but I would say the Antarctica was my favorite, more like a helles in flavor profile. More body and flavor, malt and hops, than their far distant cousins on the top of the Top Ten list. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 09:32:00 PDT From: "Eichler, David" <DAVID at usva2.dyncorp.com> Subject: Re: Sam's Triple Bock Gregg Carrier writes: Is Sam Adams outrageously expensive Triple Bock out yet? Anyone tried it? Worth the money?... Yes, got a chance to try Sam Adams new Triple Bock (on draught) at the International Beer and Wine Festival here in Washington DC this past weekend. You probably already know a little about the beer...it uses triple the normal amount of malt and was fermented for 6 months (if I remember right). The alcohol content is an astounding 17 percent (though not quite as astounding as the $110.00 price tag for a case). It will be availble only in limited quantities (DC is getting 250 cases). Now for what you've been waiting for...the taste. Well the best I can say is that it certainly is DIFFERENT!!! I have tried many bock and double bock beers (including an AMAZING blonde double bock brewed by the Chapter House Brewpub where I worked in college) and they all taste like water compared to the Triple. It is ceratinly stronger than any of the Belgian Trappist Ales I tried during my year in Europe. This beer is intensely sweet and alcoholic...even Sam Adams compares it to drinking a fine cognac or sherry. They also call it a sipping beer to be consumed in 4 oz servings (much like Britain's Tom Hardy Ale). My advice...unless you are really into barley wine or strong ales don't waste your money. I personally don't enjoy drinking very strong bock beers b/c I drink beer for bitterness not sweetness, and because I don't like to drink beer slowly ; - ) But then again...beauty is in the eye of the beer holder. Cheers, Dave. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 09:43:21 -0400 From: Art Steinmetz <asteinm at pipeline.com> Subject: Demerara Sugar - Practical Advice While the discussion on this topic has been very interesting to me I would not comb Heaven and Earth to locate the stuff if a recipe called for it. It remains, after all, sucrose and will have the customary effects on your beer. The flavoring elements that Demerara adds sound, by all accounts here, close enough to molassass, tubinado, et. al. that substitution ought to work fine. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 07:28:54 -0700 From: fjl at dpci.sannet.gov (Frank J. Leers) Subject: Lost Brewbud\Lactic Acid -Ray Ownby- writes -->>>>> >Upon trying to obtain >some, I ran into a bit of trouble. The local pharmacist can get it for me, >but at outrageous prices. I called every pharmacy in my local calling area >and probably 5 long distance before I found one that had Lactic Acid in >stock. Anyone know a good source for this stuff? I can't be the only one >who has had this much trouble finding it. I guess the moral is: If you need >Lactic Acid for your beer, better expect to look long and hard. (There was >suggestions to maybe try a chemical supply house for it; none available in my >area and mail order is VERY expensive for chemicals, at least in my neck of >the woods). So, just wondering if anyone else has had this experience and if >so where they finally found it. Ray, I have been successful in producing lactic acid for 2 batches of stout I have brewed. The technique is outlined in a Zymurgy - 3 or so issues back, the article is by Greg Noonan, I believe. In a nutshell, the procedure is as follows: mash in 10%-15% of total grist 48 hours before brew day to normal sacch. temp. (~152-156). Rest for 2 hours or so until conversion. Cool mash to 122 F. Inocculate mash with 5% of total grain bill and cover tightly w/saran wrap. Hold at 122 F for 24-48 hours. You will need to scrape off any mold or darkish tainted grain from the top before adding to your main mash. I do this in a lunch-size Coleman cooler, and keep it in my oven - toggling the oven on and off every few hours on the lowest setting. The result is a sweetish/cornish/malty/vinegar aroma and very lactic flavor. I know of at least one person who just drains the sour wort off of the mash and stores it until needed. If you can't get your hands on the article, email me and I might be persuaded to fax it to you.. good luck... -Frank - -- Frank J. Leers San Diego Data Processing Corp. fjl at dpci.sannet.gov Engineering Applications Group Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 07:40:33 +0900 From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones) Subject: CO2 life >Lee Bollard asks "CO2 empty already?" > >How long should I expect a 5lb cylinder of CO2 to last? > When I first started using CO2 on a routine bases, I used a 20# cylinder in 5 months. I then got in the habit of turning on the CO2 when I needed it and shuting off the CO2 when not in use. My 20# cylinder lasted about 14 months. There are always slow leaks somewhere. Get in the habit of turning off the CO2 when not in use, and you will greatly extend the life of your supply. Oh and get that cylinder out of the frig. The cold will lower the pressure of the CO2 and the moisture in the frig. will damage your regulator over time, IMHO. Bob Jones bjones at novax.llnl.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 11:26:39 -0400 From: djt2 at po.cwru.edu Subject: Re: Beer Chiller? (Cooling plate) Terry asks about in-line cooling for HB; Many of us use aluminum "cooling plates" for this purpose. They range from $30 to $60 depending on mass, and are available from Superior products Their catalog is free, they take MC & Visa, no minimum order. Their phone numbers are: Product Info & Ordering: 1.800.328.9800 Customer Service: 1.800.328.9400 I am pretty happy with mine (a 19#'er) and use if for parties as well as for home. I tucked the plate into the back of my fridge and ran a tube from a keg in the basement through the back of the frige into it. That way I have cold beer on tap all the time, and it takes up only as much space as a phone book in the fridge. The mass of the plate is enough to chill 2-3 mugs at a time, though, so an ice bucket is needed for parties. have fun, Dennis Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 11:30:58 EDT From: Nancy.Renner at um.cc.umich.edu Subject: Softened water, chlorine, yeasts From *Jeff* Renner Eric Thompson has several questions about procedure wrt his well water treatment. Eric, DON'T USE WATER FROM THE WATER SOFTENER! Sorry to shout, but what you'll get is two sodium ions substituted for every calcium ion. For brewing, you want calcium and don't want sodium. The carbonates, sulfates, etc. will remain untouched, although the iron may likely be reduced. I think your filtering setup plus boiling sounds great. You may want to add back Ca++ in the form of CaCl2 for lagers and CaSO4 (gypsum) for ales. While I'm not sure about putting boiling water into your plastic fermenter, I think the SS sounds better. Keep it covered and contamination shouldn't be a problem. Then you'll aerate it when you pour it into the plastic the next day. Good for yeasts. Speaking of boiling brewing water, there have been off again, on again postings about boiling to remove chlorine. More and more municipal water systems are switching from bubbling free chlorine to adding mono chloro-amine (NH2Cl), which provides more stable chlorine levels throughout the delivery system. Boiling and/or standing does not destroy this. Whether or not this is a problem is up for argument, but the occasional suggestion for using an activated charcoal filter is a good one. Once a population of nitriting bacteria establishes itself in a new filter, it will also remove the free ammonia that is inevitably present from NH2Cl addition. I'm glad I'm on a well. Mike (mkropp at BIX.com) has a question about various yeasts - bakers, brewer's and brewing. Mike, they are all strains of the same species which have been selected for their ability to do a job best. It's a little like dogs. They are all the same species, but beagles have been selectively bred to chase rabbits, border collies to herd sheep, Dobermans to remove large pieces of meat from people, etc. (Oh-oh, flames from dobie lovers!). Just as you get arguments among hunters about the respective merits of Labrador retrievers vs. Chesapeake Bay retrievers, brewers will argue endlessly over London vs. British ale yeast. As you really don't want to go pheasant hunting with a Yorkshire terrier, similarly, you won't get best results from bread yeast for your beer. Old prohibition-era recipes did call for that, but it was mostly a matter of availability. It really doesn't settle well at all. However, it is cheap, and is closely related to ale yeasts. I heard of a brewer who bought one pound blocks from his local baker, sliced off the outer inch to remove surface contaminants, and pitched the balance. He got great results - quick, clean ferments, but had to use gelatin and patience to settle. I have baked bread with ale yeast (for an Elizabethan feast). It rose slowly, but tasted great, probably _because_ of the slow rise. Bread yeast has been selected for rapid activity and gas production. Brewer's yeast is just dead, dried yeast from mega-breweries that is sold as a vitamin B complex source. Your settled yeast would work just fine for this. Jeff in Ann Arbor Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 11:44:00 -0500 From: turban at interaccess.com (Tony Urban) Subject: Dispense equipment? Greetings all, Since I'm planning my annual fall camping trip, I must consider my beer needs. Does anybody have any suggestions on dispensing equipment, such as kegs (CO2 or hand pump) or other such dispensing equipment? I could bring bottles but would rather not. I guess it's just an inconvenience thing of lugging 24 or so bottles for the weekend. I'd rather just have 2-3 gallons and some kind of pumping mechanism for homebrew-on-draft-by-the-campfire. Any thoughts on where to get such equipment or modify existing keg setups? thanks, Tony. - -------------------------------------------------------------- turban at interaccess.com homebrewer extraordinaire Return to table of contents
Date: 27 Sep 94 16:41:00 GMT From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: starter timing I wrote: >it ferments out. Yes, that's right, ferments out. Pitching at high-kraeusen >as is written in many books is NOT the best time to pitch. You can then >pour off the spent wort if you wish and pitch the yeast. Don't wait too many >days after the yeast has fallen out of solution in the starter or they will >begin to autolyse. Well, Jim Busch and I talked a bit about this offline and now I feel that I may be furthering the unwarranted fears of autolysis. Thinking about this further, I suspect (although I have not read this anywhere yet) that the yeast would use it's glycogen stores first before resorting to "eating their cousins." Therefore, I suspect that the reasoning for not waiting too long (let's say more than a week <just a guess>) after the yeast begin to fall out of solution is not so much a fear of autolysis, but rather because they will be expending those precious glycogen stores that we want the yeast to have at high levels at pitching time. Comments? Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 13:07:00 PDT From: "Tomlinson, James" <TomlinJa at ctls.sch.ge.com> Subject: 50/60 Hz Motors In HB1526, A. Anderson wrote: "I plan on sending a brewing fridge over since I've been assured it will work on the big, hefty transformer." <snip> I received your message late. I would be far more concerned with the frequency situation than the voltage. 1/2 the design of a motor is the frequency it will be operating with. If it is a standard induction motor (I'm not getting too EE for you am I ? To tell the truth, I'm an ME with lots of other goodies thrown in...). They work by lagging (going more slowly than) the frequency. The more lag, the more power it draws and the more work it does. So instead of lagging behind 3600 rpm (60 hz) it will be lagging behind 3000 rpm (50 hz). Now, the motor itself MAY not be hurt by this, BUT, the compressor was not designed to operate at this speed. Now I'm not saying that it will not work, but it may not work as well, or be able to cool as much. The analog clock situation you describe is due to this phenomenom. (Some cheap "Digital" clocks count the pulses in the local grid for thier timing). As far as the controller is concerned, it depends on how it works. If it converts AC to DC and then uses DC to operate, probally, no problem. However, the transformer and rectifier (the AC to DC part) again were designed to work with 60 HZ, and the filter capacitors may not be set correctly. Jim Tomlinson (TomlinJa at sch.ge.com) Return to table of contents
Date: 27 Sep 1994 10:16:49 U From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com> Subject: Process for Removing Lead From Brass. Hello Group, Never let it be said that the Space Program never yields technology applicable to the home. Yesterday I brought several common brass parts to the Chem Lab. The chemists determined that a 1-to-1 volume ratio of Glacial Acetic Acid to Hydrogen Peroxide would dissolve the surface lead from the brass. We performed this procedure (30 second dunk/swirl/rinse) and were successful in removing the lead, as determined by a Lead Home Test Kit (swabs). In addition, the procedure had the effect of turning the brass into Pure Gold. (Okay, the color of, anyway) Because 98% Acetic Acid and 30% Hydrogen Peroxide are not available to the average brewer, I repeated the experiment using the concentrations available in the supermarket. These are 5% Acetic Acid (White Distilled Vinegar) and 3% Hydrogen Peroxide. Due to the difference in concentration, I expected the process to take longer and so left the brass part in solution for 10 minutes, only to return to find the part had turned black and was bubbling. I repeated the experiment with another part, this time using a shorter time of about 2 minutes. I obtained much the same gold color and the Lead Test swab indicated a very diminished amount of lead compared to before. Talking with my friends in the Chem Lab today, they said that the blackening I observed was due to the Hydrogen Peroxide generating black oxides. They observed that using the 1-to-1 volume ratio of the common dilute chemicals, I had changed the relative concentration ratio. For the household variety concentrations, a 2-to-1 volume ratio of Acetic Acid to H2O2 is needed. This accounted for the decreased performance of the process. So there you have it. An easy procedure for removing surface lead from brass. A one minute dunk, swirl, and rinse in a 2/1 volume ratio of 5% Acetic Acid and 3% Hydrogen Peroxide at room temperature. By the way, the solution is irritating to the skin so either were gloves or use tongs. John Palmer- Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P, Space Station palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 11:39:02 -0600 (MDT) From: Ted Benning <tedben at csn.org> Subject: Brewpubs in Chicago area I have heard that there are more than one brewpub in the Chicago area. Has anyone come across any good pubs and if so, any good brews??? Thanks! Ted Benning Solution Systems Technologies, Inc. 303-442-3686 2955 Valmont Rd., Suite 120 Boulder, CO 80301 tedben at solusys.com Return to table of contents
Date: 27 Sep 94 17:37:00 GMT From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: cold break and protein rests Guy writes: >Four batches ago I switched my mash temperature program from single-step >to two-step. I start at 140F for 30 minutes and then attempt to get up >to 158F for another 60 minutes, but have only been able to get to 156F. >Anyway, in all of the last four batches I have not had any cold break >appearing in my fermenters. I use a counterflow wort chiller. Can >anyone suggest a reason for this and whether it is good or bad that I'm >not getting any cold break. I had a very similar experience. I recently made an allgrain batch using 100% DeWolf-Cosysns Pale Ale malt in a single-step infusion mash at 155F. The amount of cold break was excessive, I felt, so the following week I made the same recipe, but this time with a 30 minute rest at 135F. Just as you reported, there was virtually no cold break. First, what is cold break? It is made of big proteins complexing with tannins from the grain and from the hops. Secondly, what does a 140F rest do? It is at the high-end of the protein rest range, the end that favors the proteolytic enzyme protease (which converts big proteins to small, head-retaining and mouthfeel proteins) over the proteolytic enzyme peptidase (which converts big proteins to amino acids). Doing a long protein rest at the low end of the protein rest range (around 122F), which is what most recipes call for, will break down most of the proteins into amino acids which will give your yeast lots of nutrients, but will also tend to make for poorer head retention and thinner, more watery mouthfeel, than an equivalent rest at 135-140F. The rest you did, broke down the large proteins into smaller ones, which should result in better head retention and heavier mouthfeel than the single-step beers you made previously. The reason that you did not get a cold break as you expected, is because your protein rest broke down the proteins that would have made up this break. Now, is this good or bad? It seems that it would be good, but now recall that the tannins that would have been removed from the beer as cold break may now still be in solution. You should taste the final beer very critically and note if there is any excessive astringency (like chewing on a grape skin or red apple peel) in the beer. If so, you may want to: 1. watch the mash pH more carefully, adding lactic or phosphoric acid, acid blend or gypsum to keep the pH of the mash (not the sparge water) below 5.5, 2. reduce the time of the 140F rest next time, or 3. you may want to fine your beer with Polyclar which will take some of those tannins out of the beer. Please report back what you (and perhaps some judges) think of your beer expecially WRT head retention, body and astringency. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 14:02:26 EDT From: pacasey at lexmark.com (Patrick Casey) Subject: Duvel & Triples What's the difference between Duvel and a Triple? Just curious, since I've never had a Triple, but the descriptions I've heard make it sound somewhat like Duvel... - Patrick Return to table of contents
Date: 27 Sep 94 17:45:00 GMT From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: IBU post correction! Duh! I wrote: >I believe that Ragers formulas were based upon pellets. I've tested beers >at Siebel that were made based upon Rager's formulas and this is what I >can say for MY setup: >pellets, 5-gallon, high-gravity boil, hop bag, a 40IBU target, using Rager's >formulas PLUS 10% (for the grain bag), non-blowoff, resulted in a beer >measured at 41.5 IBUs. That should have been "PLUS 10% (for the HOP bag)." ^^^ Sorry. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 12:16:00 PDT From: "Geiser, Chris [RB-4851]" <Geiser at po1.rb.unisys.com> Subject: Removing Labels from Bottles Is there an easy (or difficult !) way to remove labels from bottles without destroying the labels ? Private e-mail is preferred, TIA. Chris Geiser geiser at rb.unisys.com 619-451-4851 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 14:19:50 CDT From: Carolyne Kincy <cek at engr.uark.edu> Subject: Hops rhizomes I signed on to this list about two weeks ago, and it is just great. :) I hope someone can help me find a source for hop rhizomes. My husband (Rob) has been homebrewing for about 15 years and I have been gardening about that long. When we married an moved to Arkansas about 6 years ago it seemed like an ideal opportunity to expand our homebrewing to growing our own hops. We obtained rhizomes for Willamette, Perle, and Fuggles hops from Marysville Oast in Oregon. Unfortunately, the Marysville Oast folks went on vacation to Hawaii 5 years ago, and we have been unable to find a source for rhizomes since. Although Fuggles is a cool-weather hop and the others are not, all three kinds are doing well here. We would like to try some other kinds of hops. We have found two mail-order nurseries offering hops, but they did not know what kind they were. Another nursrey sells non-specific hops seeds, but I am concerned that would be a problem, since other plants that reproduce from rhizomes (irises, lillies, etc.) do not also reproduce from seeds. I would also appreciate any information concering growing hops. We got a good book from Marysville Oast, which has been my sole source of information to date. Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom. Carolyne cek at engr.uark.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 14:42:53 CDT From: "MICHAEL L. TEED" <MS08653 at MSBG.med.ge.com> Subject: WEISEN SUMMARY .int homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Thanks to all who responded to my question regarding heavy clove phenolics in my latest weisen. High brewing temps over 68 degrees was mentioned as the number 1 culprit. Although I have already used this yeast at even higher temperatures than the 70-71 that I used for this batch, I have not had the emphasis go so heavily to the clove side. I had one respondent who had almost identical results with a batch that was fermented the same temp as mine and similar gravity. I would tie these 2 items together, higher gravity, higher temperature = higher clove phenolics. In a batch done earlier this summer, I fermented a 1.045 or so gravity at 73-75 degrees and pitched a double batch of yeast and got a heavily banana phenolic flavor, which is more to my liking. Another comment came through in the HBD about the Wyeast strain not being very 'repeatable'. In the initial heavily banana phenolic batch I used the original Wyeast packet, in the heavily cloved batch I used Brewtek slants which I have been told is the same Weihanstephan 3068as the Wyeast. I feel there may have been a substantial difference between the two based onhow the phenolics of the two batches are so contrary. So this may support the comment on irregularities. I brewed the lower gravity at a higher temp than the higher gravity, is it possible that the 3068 goes clovey at 70-71 and banana at 73-74? Well, looks like I have to try another experiment, brew a low gravity and a high gravity at the same temp, blend them and get the clove from one batch and the banana from the other.... Hmmmm. A couple people asked why I brewed such a high gravity, basically it was an experiment to see how to get more beer from a batch worth of labor, also to see how phenolics change at higher gravities. There surely appears to be a log scale increase. Mike Teed Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 14:55:00 -0600 (MDT) From: Greg Fisk <gregf at corona.med.utah.edu> Subject: eisbock recipe request I'm looking for a recipe for a real ice beer (eisbock). If anyone has a recipe, please email me directly. Greg Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 14:46:24 -0700 From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com> Subject: extension to beer guides Being the anal retentive type that I am, I've long been unhappy with the standard beer style guides that are available. After combing through the available literature, I've compiled this list of beer styles and their characteristics. I've considered the malty-ness, the hoppiness, and the body of a style, as well as a smattering of information of a general nature to the style. I left off the things that are in every guide: specificly, the bitterness, gravity, color and percent alcohol. I'm looking for more information. I seek to form a consensus as to the characteristics of the styles. In the way of responses, I would appreciate the statements to be in the following form: I think that the (CHARACTERISTIC) of (STYLE) is (LEVEL) for the following reason: Reason.............. or: You forgot the (FOLLOWING INFORMATION) on (BEER STYLE). informaton............. Doesn't this sound like fun? I can keep better track of information sent directly to me, however I do read this forum, and will be able to follow cross-continent flame wars that may break out. Hopefully this can be of some use and further service in the brewing literature: Rich Webb TABLE FOLLOWS: Type of Beverage Malty Hop Body Other Berliner Weisse low Fruity-Estery, sour German-style Weizen hi low Fruity-Estery, sour, phenolic / Weissbier German-style hi low med-hi Fruity-Estery Dunkelweizen German-style hi low Fruity-Estery Weizenbock American Wheat Fruity-Estery, no clove or phenolics Classic English low-med Hoppy med Fruity-Estery, gypsum Pale Ale India Pale Ale med V.Hoppy med Fruity-Estery, gypsum English Old Ale med Fruity-Estery, gypsum / Strong Ale Strong "Scotch" Ale V. hi low hi American Style low-med med Fruity-Estery, dry hop, gypsum Pale Ale Cream Ale low low low similar to std lager English Ordinary low-med V.Hoppy low-med Fruity-Estery, some Diace, low Bitter carbonation, dry hop, gypsum English Special med V.Hoppy med Fruity-Estery, some Diace, low Bitter carbonation, dry hop, gypsum English Extra V.Hoppy hi Fruity-Estery, some Diace, low Special Bitter carbonation, dry hop, gypsum Scottish Light very low diace, sulph, roast barley, low carb Scottish Heavy very low med diace, sulph, roast barley, low carb Scottish Export med med diace, sulph, roast barley Barley Wine V. hi low hi Kolsch low-med low German / Duss med-hi hi low-med eldorf-style Altbier English Brown hi low hi Fruity, butter, toffee, vanilla, low carbonation, chalk English Mild hi low Fruity-Estery, diace, low carbonation, black malts for dryness, chalk American Brown med-hi med Low Fruity-Estery, dry palate Robust Porter med med med black malts, chalk, dry hop Brown Porter med Choc malt, low black malt, dry hop Dry Stout med-hi low-med Roast barley, chalk Foreign Style Stout hi low-med Roast barley, Sweet Stout hi low-med Choc malt, lactose, chalk Imperial Stout hi hi Roast, choc, black malt, chalk Flanders Brown sour, vienna malt, corn grits, Trappist Ales low-med sugar, citric & hop aroma Double Malt Triple Malt Saison hi med-hi Fruity-Estery, hard water, hi carbonation, spiced, dry hop Lambic none Fruity-Estery, horsey, sour, aged hops, no carbonation Faro White soft water, corriander German Pilsener low med-hi low dry, no esters, diace Bohemian Pilsener med-hi med-hi hint diace, soft water American Standard low low low no esters, no diace Diet / Lite low low low hi carbonation American Premium low low-med low Dry low low low American Dark low low low Munich Helles hi med med minimal diace Dortmund / Export low gypsum European Dark Munich Dunkel hi Schwarzbier hi low Vienna hi low-med hi chalk Marzen Oktoberfest hi Trad Dark Bock hi low hi Helles (light) Bock hi low hi Doppelbock hi low hi Eisbock hi low hi END OF TABLE Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 20:47:24 -0400 (EDT) From: David Elm <delm at hookup.net> Subject: Re: Help with carbonation and head retention Stan White writes: >What is the difference between undercarbonation and poor head retention?? >What else might cause poor head retention?? I have heard of adding .5-1 lb >wheat malt to help. Also the freshness of the hops ?? In making an all grain stout over the past year I have come to the following conclusions: - "The Complete Handbook of Home Brewing" by Dave Miller is most helpfull. - beer needs medium length proteins for a head and head retention - after the following 3 protein rests starch conversion was done at 156F 1) a protein rest at 121F for 30 min resulted in no head 2) a protein rest at 131F for 30 min resulted in good head and retention. OG=1.052, FG=1.016 3) a protein rest at 136F for 30 min resulted in slightly better head and retention than 2). OG=1.052, FG=1.014 (some starch conversion to sugars at this temperature ?) - wheat malt has a higher protein content than other grains and is often added - but should not be neccessary - good carbonation is required for a head (I have not tried beer gas dispensing of an undercarbonated beer to alter this). If your beer is undercarbonated try bottle priming with various quantities of corn starch to quickly determine the carbonation level that you like at a time that you can wait for it. If you have already bottled remove some beer from a number of bottles and reprime. I like the carbonation to be good 2 weeks after priming and high after 4 weeks (1/2" head) - that's double the usual priming for my stout. - glasses must not have any traces of soap. My dish washer works fine. - other references to head retention that I have found in HBD are: 1) trace elements, #492 2) don't over sparge, #500 3) don't use Irish moss, #534 4) use fresh hops, #645 5) hops as source of protein for head retention, #1295 - the next step for me with the stout is to adjust pH according to Dave Miller's suggestions. - -- David Elm delm at hookup.net (416)-293-1568 47 Chartland Blvd S, Scarborough, Ontario, Canada, M1S 2R5 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 22:35:47 -0400 (EDT) From: APPLIED METAPHYSICIST <CK0949 at ALBNYVMS.BITNET> Subject: hard cider book??? hi... i am looking to find a book that has any info on making hard cider... i have read a lot of the posts, but to be honest i have never brewed anything in my life... i do enjoy hard cider very much and i think it would be a great place to start... i went to the best bookstore i know of and looked around to no avail, a lot of beer books though... so could someone recommend a book to a brewing newbie, or possibly send me some info... thanx... christian kiely SUNY ALBANY ck0949 at albnyvms.bitnet Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 94 17:19:21 +1000 From: "Michael Scroggie" <michael_scroggie.zoology at muwaye.unimelb.EDU.AU> Subject: Demerera Fellow brewers, There's a great supply of Demerera sugar at my local supermarket in Errol Street, North Melbourne, Australia if any of you are in the area and need some! Happy brewing, The Scrogster Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1539, 09/29/94