HOMEBREW Digest #1573 Tue 08 November 1994

Digest #1572 Digest #1574

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Talk the talk/infection?/SNPA "Culturing" (00bkpickeril)
  Keg boiler/tun mods? (Timothy Sixberry)
  Immersion versus Counterflow chillers/Copyrights, sort of... (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Official Disclaimer ("Craig A. Janson")
  Copyright Discussion (CAVEMAN -- San Bernardino, Calif. USA)
  Yet Another DMS post! ("Steven W. Smith")
  In Search Of......... (VALGENTIF)
  Re: Propane cooking indoors (Philip Gravel)
  Re: RE: Vent Pipes (Harry Covert)
  Efficiency & volume (1st allgrain) (Lee Bollard)
  Acronyms (Gary Bell)
  Re:Killians Recipe (Dale A Duvall)
  Keg Conversion FAQ/UNIX brewing software/Pizza Beer (Teddy Winstead)
  Bottle Durability (Ward Weathers)
  Malting - my mistake (Tel +44 784 443167)
  Motor a mill (Jay Weissler)
  Hop vendors? ("J. Pat Martinez" )
  Weiss yeast (Wolfe)
  SN Celebration Ale recipe / partial mash question (ESMPD)" <gcunning at Census.GOV>
  partial mash (was Re: Liberty Ale) (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Low gravity brewing:  English Mild (darrylri)
  TSP ("Anton Verhulst")
  Gassy kegged beer and gassy brewer (fwd) (Martin Lodahl)
  are bulk extracts the same? (Bob Tattershall)
  Priming with green beer (revisited) (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Cheap kegs ("DEV::SJK")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 04 Nov 1994 16:30:53 -0500 (EST) From: 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu Subject: Talk the talk/infection?/SNPA "Culturing" Dear Homebrewers, First, a couple of questions, then I'll share some recent experiences. I have to admit that as a brewer of only just over 1 year, I still have a lot of trouble understanding what tastes like, for example, diacetyl. I know the standard answers, such as that diacetyl tastes like "butterscotch" but that doesn't seem to help me much. I guess what I really need to do is attend a beer festival, but I'm a long way from most all of them and I doubt that I will get the opportunity to attend one anytime soon. I have definitely noticed the "skunky" taste that I wasn't as aware of before I started homebrewing. I was buying Grolsch for the bottles for awhile, but I can't get over the skunky taste of it here and I don't like it nearly as much as I used to. I have been trying commercial beers that I've heard good things about in the HBD. Sierra Nevada IPA is fantastic! Pilsner Urquel is really unique, but I don't really know how to talk about it, if you know what I mean. How would you describe it? Sierra Nevada stout is good, but I like Guiness better, I think. How would you describe the difference? Sorry I have not really researched this that much, about the only thing I have read on this is the small section at the end of CP's TNCJOHB. I guess there is no substitute for experience, but I have no homebrew club or friends locally that homebrew, so it's been a source of frustration learning how to describe and evaluate my own brews. Second problem. I have a batch now that appears infected, since most of the bottles have a white fill ring. Also, there are some black spots in some of the necks, under the fill line, that are only visible when the bottle is held up to a strong light. Those spots are irregular shaped, and kinda look like small ground pepper, stuck to the glass. I think it's weird that not all the bottles have the white ring. Besides being over hopped, the batch is really quite drinkable, and it is getting better over time, not worse as you might expect with an infection. Right? They don't look as horrible as this sounds. I have some suspicions about it, of course. This batch was over pitched. I used 2 packets of Doric ale yeast. About 40 hours later I panicked and tossed in 1 pack of munton and fison dry yeast, because it had not started at that point. It then started a couple of hours later, so the M&F yeast was probably a mistake. Prior to this batch, I had only ever pitched one pack--always dry yeast to that point. Could the white stuff be related to the overpitching? Also, our water quality is not the best. On past batches, I have used 3 gal of RO (reverse osmosis) water chilled, for topping up the boiled wort. This water is great stuff, I can get it for 25 cents a gallon, and chilling it in the freezer works great to cool the wort for pitching. I really think the water helps a lot. The tap water has some scale in it typically, and is chemically fairly close to "burton on trent" according to the table in TNCJOHB. Of course, the main source of the problem is very likely just that the bottles were not clean enough. I have not used a bottle brush before but I certainly plan on it before bottling my next batch. It beats drinking a case of swill, at least. ;-) I'm not very scientific about my brewing. I change a lot of variables from batch to batch, but I am learning nonetheless. It's more fun this way! I am very excited about my batch that's currently in the secondary. I made it from my first 2 box/bags of NorthWest Gold malt extract. (Apparently the AMBER is lighter than the GOLD? I guessed the opposite.) What's more, I "cultured" the yeast from SNPA. This too, was not what I'd call scientific. I decided I could NOT wait 'till I had a starter solution ready to try it, so I popped a top and just immediately resealed the last inch or so in the bottle with foil and a rubber band. Then, I did that with another. ;-) I kept these bottles in the fridge for a few days till I had time to do the starter. I made about 2 cups from 6 tbs of DME, and a few hop pellets. I was very careful with sanitation, but not to the extremes I have read about. I used CP's technique of pouring the boiling starter wort into a heated bottle. When it came time to pitch, I added the yeast from the 2 bottles I had drank from days before, and drank another one and pitched it's yeast for good measure. ;-) Since I paid $7 for the SNPA 6 pack, I was still in for only the price of a pack of liquid yeast, but had the pleasure of 3 SNPAs to boot. I know this was not a very high rate of pitching, and that the yeast faq, for example, suggests pitching into only a cup to starter, then adding more wort later. Well, it took several days, and I had given up on it, but not tossed it out. Good thing. About 5 or so days after pitching, I noticed a high krausen! Wow. So, I brewed up 6.6 lbs of NW Gold, some odd hop pellets, and pitched it, along with the yeast from the 4th bottle of SNPA. All the while I was careful of temperature to avoid shocking the yeast. Well, the yeast really took off in the primary. At racking to secondary about a week later, this stuff tasted great flat! As an extra experiment, I bottled about 10oz of wort that didn't make it thru the siphon to the secondary. I just added a tsp of corn sugar. It hasn't exploded yet, and I'm planning to have it on bottling night. I haven't decided yet if I will call this batch "Golden Mountain Ale," or "Ina-Godda Nevada Not So Pale Ale." Probably GMA, since it's not really hopped like an IPA. I hope this one is really good because I want to give away some for Christmas. Drink the yeast! - --Brian Pickerill <00bkpickeril at leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu> Ball State University Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 04 Nov 94 14:13:00 PST From: Timothy Sixberry <tsixber at mswisard.kla.com> Subject: Keg boiler/tun mods? Hi Brewers, I would be very greatful if someone out there could tell me the best way to install 1/4 turn s.steel ball valves on my kegs ie. sparge,mashtun, and boiler. As a matter of fact, if someone could direct me to a source for the valves themselves that would be great too. I can only find brass ones at the hardware store,and I would like to use stainless if I could. I'm trying to get this wicked 10 gallon brew system going and this is my last hang-up. It will be just like the brew magic, but at a magic cost. So if anyone has some experience modifying kegs (and I know you do) please write and fill me in. P.S. please respond to my private e-mail address as I don't get the digest any more. Return to table of contents
Date: 4 Nov 94 19:52:00 GMT From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: Immersion versus Counterflow chillers/Copyrights, sort of... Before we re-hash the Immersion versus Counterflow chiller debate again, I'd like to urge interested parties to check the archives first. There's probably a megabyte of info on this topic in back issues. ****** Regarding the very boring topic of hardcopy and CDROM Homebrew Digests, I'd just like to say that the whole concept of someone trying to make a profit from the HBD goes against the free exchange of ideas. Sure, if someone is going to go through the trouble of putting something like that together, then they deserve to make a small profit to compensate for the work they put into the assembly of the information. However, if someone is making a profit on the information itself, then it just doesn't feel right to me. I have spent a considerable amount of my time helping people solve their homebrewing problems. I never expected to get anything out of it other than the knowledge that I helped foster the hobby and possibly help a couple of people make better beer. If indeed the people who are redistributing HBD are doing it to further spread our combined homebrewing help, then great. On the other hand, they may not be -- I don't know. Since I don't know, I just feel very uneasy now about posting anything particularly novel. This incident didn't really cause me to start rethinking my participation in the HBD, rather it just reinforced what I've been thinking about for a while. I believe it started when Mark Garetz (self) published his book _Using_Hops_. In it, he said something like "some brewers use 10% more hops to compensate for using a hop bag." To the very best of my knowledge (and I've read each and every HBD since I subscribed in 1987) I'm the one who first posted this method and I believe that nobody other than me has posted about it since. This is a minor point, but it was a rude awakening. Ulick probably thinks that I'm being pompous... "Who would want this rambling crap that Al writes each day?" Well, there are books being published on homebrewing every day and I've seen many items from the HBD making their way into these books without any credit. I'll bet that this explains why there are so many errors in the homebrewing books that have been coming out lately. Author's who *think* they know enough to write about homebrewing, snagging material from the HBD (and misinformed HB shop owners), which is commonly littered with errors. For example, I found at least a half-dozen errors in today's HBD, but I'm just too tired and disheartened to bother to correct them. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 94 17:32 EST From: "Craig A. Janson" <0003522158 at mcimail.com> Subject: Official Disclaimer OK. From now on, put the following at the end of each post. It will use the bandwidth you would ordinarily use for flaming people and allow all of us to get back to the business of relax.have.homebrew. Disclaimer: This post does not reflect the thoughts or opinions of either myself, my company, my friends, or my cat; don't quote me on that; don't quote me on anything; you may distribute this posting and all its associated parts freely but you may not make a profit from it or include the posting in commercial publications without written permission me at the e-mail address below; further redistributions of this document or its parts are allowed; posts are subject to change without notice; posts are slightly enlarged to show detail; any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, is unintentional and purely coincidental; hand wash only, tumble dry on low heat; do not bend, fold, mutilate, or spindle; your mileage may vary; no substitutions allowed; for a limited time only; this offer is void where prohibited, taxed, or otherwise restricted; posts is provided "as is" without any warranties expressed or implied; user assumes full liabilities; not liable for damages due to use or misuse; an equal opportunity post employer; no shoes, no shirt, no posts; quantities are limited while supplies last; if defects are discovered, do not attempt to fix them yourself, but return to an authorized post service center; caveat emptor; read at your own risk; parental advisory - explicit lyrics; text may contain material some readers may find objectionable, parental guidance is advised; keep away from sunlight, pets, and small children; limit one-per-family please; no money down; no purchase necessary; you need not be present to win; some assembly required; batteries are not included; action figures sold separately; no preservatives added; safety goggles may be required during use; sealed for your protection, do not use if the safety seal is broken; call before you dig; for external use only; if a rash, redness, irritation, or swelling develops, discontinue use; use only with proper ventilation; avoid extreme temperatures and store in a cool dry place; keep away from open flames and avoid inhaling fumes; avoid contact with mucous membranes; do not puncture, incinerate, or store above 120 degrees Fahrenheit; do not place near flammable or magnetic source; smoking these posts may be hazardous to your health; the best safeguard, second only to abstinence, is the use of a good post; text used in these posts is made from 100% recycled electrons and magnetic particles; no animals were used to test the hilarity of these posts; no salt, MSG, artificial color or flavor added; if ingested, do not induce vomiting, if symptoms persist, consult a postologist; posts are ribbed for your pleasure; slippery when wet; must be 18 to enter; possible penalties for early withdrawal; post offer valid only at participating post sites; slightly higher west of the Rockies; allow four to six weeks for delivery; disclaimer does not cover hurricane, lightning, tornado, tsunami, volcanic eruption, earthquake, flood, and other Acts of God, misuse, neglect, unauthorized repair, damage from improper installation, typos, misspelled words, incorrect line voltage, missing or altered serial numbers, sonic boom vibrations, electromagnetic radiation from nuclear blasts, customer adjustments that are not covered in the post list, and incidents owing to motor vehicle accidents, airplane crash, ship sinking, leaky roof, falling rocks, mud slides, forest fire, broken glass, flying projectiles, or dropping the item; other restrictions may apply. If something offends you, lighten up, get a life, and move on!!! Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 1994 01:07:03 -0800 From: cjcoker at csupomona.edu (CAVEMAN -- San Bernardino, Calif. USA) Subject: Copyright Discussion > Subj: Homebrew Digest #1571 (November 05, 1994) [snip] > Date: 03 Nov 94 07:34:49 GMT > From: Gregg_Weir#123#Notes#c#_Gregg_Weir#064#DCI#125# at mail.discovery.com > Subject: Copyright Discussion [snip] > But until you know excactly what you're talking about, stick to home > brew discussion. Greg, What makes you think they know anything about home brew? Maybe they're wannabe lawyers . . . Chuck Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 1994 08:09:38 -0700 (MST) From: "Steven W. Smith" <SYSSWS at gc.maricopa.edu> Subject: Yet Another DMS post! We've all been told time and again (and again) "DMS is driven out of your wort by boiling". I "discovered" (doh) something that should have been obvious. Last weekend when I got involved with something else during brewing and had a 1 1/2 hour boil: The Steam Smells Different When The DMS Is Gone!!! Stunning, isn't it? *<:-O Yes, it now seems likely that DMS is what drove my daughter and S.O. to buy me a King Kooker and banish me to the yard (so it's not _all_ bad). Thanks to this amazing revelation I've now become painfully aware of DMS in some of my lovelies... I now eagerly await what may be my first bock++ sans DMS. Live and learn and brew better. Thanks to y'all who beat me over the head with this information until it stuck! _,_/| \o.O; Steven W. Smith - Systems Programmer, but not a Licensed Therapist =(___)= Glendale Community College, Glendale Az. USA U syssws at gc.maricopa.edu P.S. Feel free to share this pearl of wisdom with the net-challenged population at large :-) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 05 Nov 1994 21:43:30 -0500 (EST) From: VALGENTIF at delphi.com Subject: In Search Of......... I am currently in search of a recipe fora batch of truly unique homebrew for the upcoming holiday season. If anyone out there has a recipe they are willing to share it would be most appreciated. Any recipes can be sent to me at VALGENTIF at DELPHI.COM I am sure there are others out there considering a holiday batch so I will be sure to post any recipes received to the HB Digest. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 94 23:22 CST From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel) Subject: Re: Propane cooking indoors ===> Tom Cannon says in his last word on propane cooking indoors... > 1.) Propane sucks in large amounts of oxygen, on the order > of depleting an enclosed house of its total supply within an > hour. I find this hard to believe. > 2.) Carbon Monoxide build-up after combustion is also life > threatening requiring serious ventilation (again, more than > a few open windows). True, but is it any more of a problme than an ordinary gas stove assuming that the propane burner is properly adjusted. > 3.) Big burners are a fire hazard. Sounds true to me. > 4.) Occasionally, you have propane leaks. Being a truly > orderless and colorless gas, this can lead to situtations > resulting in death. Most fuels that are normally odorless (natural gas, propane) have methyl mercaptan added to them. This gives them an order so they can be detected by smell. The hazard of death from a propane leak seems exaggerated. Since propane is basically inert, any death would be due to asphyxiation - -- lack of oxygen due to excessive amount of propane. Actually, the greatest hazard of a propane leak would be explosion and fire should the leaked propane ignite. > 5.) Propane is not the cleanest burning gas in the world > and could result in large soot stains on ceilings. This would only be a problem if the burner were badly out of adjustment. You would know that by the yellow, sooty flame. > 6.) Do you really want to risk a 15.5 gallon boilover > inside a house? Point well taken.. - -- Phil _____________________________________________________________ Philip Gravel pgravel at mcs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 94 09:03 EST From: Harry Covert <0007059940 at mcimail.com> Subject: Re: RE: Vent Pipes Harry Covert Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 94 11:12:43 PST From: Lee Bollard <bollard at spk.hp.com> Subject: Efficiency & volume (1st allgrain) My first all-grain brew went pretty well. Just like everyone said, it's time consuming, but not difficult. Now I need to know what to change for next time... Malt bill: ---------- 8 lbs Pale .5 lb Crystal 40L .5 lb Cara-Pils I shot for 6 gallons volume before boiling, and did get that by the time the runoff gravity was down to 1.010 :-) The gravity of the 6 gallons was 1.045. :-) After boiling for an hour I ended up with just over 4 gallons. :-( The gravity of this 4 gallons was 1.055 :-) This is higher than the 1.048 I shot for. So I added some distilled water to top up the carboy (mistake?). How did I do, efficiency-wise? Next time, should I: Use more water? (YES) Use more grain? Use hotter sparge water (172F this time) RDWHAHB? Regards, Lee Bollard bollard at spk.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 1994 11:47:06 -0800 From: gbell at ix.netcom.com (Gary Bell) Subject: Acronyms I recently posted a note asking for the definition of a couple of (IMHO) fairly obscure acronyms. The result was a flame that quite frankly startled me. The flamer claimed, in an exchange of private messages, that the reason behind the flame was not the question but the attitude behind the question. Well, if Al Korzonas thought there was an attitude problem he didn't say so and I apologize for any misunderstanding. And thanks to Al and to Sean O'Keefe for providing straightforward responses to my question. But it's true that I don't like the over-use of acronyms. I run into this problem everywhere I go, not just on the net. We get so used to using acronyms, at work, in sports, with friends, that we forget that they can be alienating to those who aren't "insiders". This is especially true for something like the HBD which should endeavour to be as *inclusive* as possible. As a step in the *right direction* (again IMHO) I've made a list of acronyms, commonly used, uncommonly used, and even some that might be used. My thanks to Ed Quier (elq1 at pge.com) for actually making a stab at this a few weeks back (sorry Ed, you didn't copyright it!). Does anyone have any proposed additions or corrections? Maybe we should add something like this to the HBD FAQ. A final note before the list: think about others, newbies and non-newbies alike, when throwing out an acronym. Is is commonly used or are you making it up. And does it really save that much time and space that's it's worth slowing down, or preventing, the comprehension of your audience. And now, without further ado: A Concise Lexicon of Commonly-Used Internet Homebrew Acronyms A-B Anheiser-Busch AA% Percent Isomerized Alpha Acid AAE Alpha-Amylase Enzyme AAU Alpha Acid Units ABC Anchor Brewing Company ABV Alcohol By Volume AHA American Homebrewers Association BAE Beta-Amylase Enzyme BBC Boston Brewing Company BTW By the way CHHB The Complete Handbook of Home Brewing CP Charlie Papazian DE Diastatic Enzyme DME Dry Malt Extract (*not* Diastatic Malt Extract) DMS Dimethylsulfide DMSO Dimethylsulfoxide EE Extraction Efficiency EKG East Kent Goldings hops ESB Extra Special Bitter FAQ Frequently asked questions FG Final Gravity FTP File Transfer Protocol FWIW For whats its worth GABF Great American Beer Festival HBD Homebrew Digest HBU Homebrew Bitterness Units HSA Hot-side aeration IBU International bittering units IMHO In my humble opinion IPA India Pale Ale M-D MaltoDextrin NBJCP National Beer Judge Certification Program OG Original Gravity PNW Pacific Northwest RCB rec.crafts.brewing RDWHAHB Relax, don't worry have a home brew! RIMS Ricirculating infusion mash system SG Specific Gravity SM Sodium metabisulfate SMM S-Methylmethionine SNPA Sierra Nevada Pale Ale SRM Standard Reference Method (color units) SWBN Southwest Brewing News TCJOHB The Complete Joy of Home Brewing (1984) TG Terminal Gravity (see FG) TIA Thanks in advance TNCJOHB The New Complete Joy of Home Brewing (1991) WWW World Wide Web YMMV Your mileage may vary ZLT Zapap lauter-tun - -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gary Bell "Quis dolor cui dolium?" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 1994 12:29:38 -0800 (PST) From: Dale A Duvall <duvall at efn.org> Subject: Re:Killians Recipe Date: Wed, 02 Nov 94 15:38:05 CST From: LBRISTOL at SYSUBMC.BMC.COM Subject: Request for Recipe I'm looking for a recipe to make a red ale, or some other beer similar to "Killian's Red", either the original version or the Coors version. Either extract based or all-grain recipe. Please submit either here, or e-mail to "bplummer at sysubmc.bmc.com". TIA! I haven't tried this but It caught my attention. Subj: Re:Killian's Red Anyone??? 94-10-27 11:42:50 EST From: TFRock I recently brewed a brew that tastes fairly close to that of Killian's Red, only slightly maltier. I dont' remember the exact finishing hops that was used, but the rest of the recipe was very simple. 1 3lb can of John Bull hopped light extract 3 lbs unhopped amber malt 1/2 lb crystal malt 1 1/2 oz Fuggles Hops (I think) 1/2 teaspoon Irish Moss (What else for Killian's - although not really Irish) Crush the crystal malt and boil in 2 gallons of water for about 15 minutes - remove the spent grains from the wort. Add the John Bull hopped light and the powdered amber malt to the wort. Boil for 45 minutes then add the Irish moss. At 50 minutes add the Fuggles hops and boil for an additional 10 minutes. Cool, pitch the yeast, and bottle in 7-9 days. It develops a nice head and is remarkably good within 3-4 weeks. TFRock (From AOL) Dale DuVall duvall at efn.org Low Beemer at aol.com Eugene, Oregon Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 1994 17:15:53 -0600 (CST) From: winstead%brauerei at cs.tulane.edu (Teddy Winstead) Subject: Keg Conversion FAQ/UNIX brewing software/Pizza Beer Hey folks, haven't posted here in a while, so I thought that I might as well ramble for a few minutes -- I have three beer-related projects that I'm working on right now -- 1. I continue to work on the "1/2 Barrel Keg Conversion FAQ". If you have a question that you think should be in the FAQ, please mail it to me, if you have answers that you think belong in the FAQ, mail those to me, too. If you'd like a copy of the FAQ, send me mail, and I'll send you a copy. My address is -- 'winstead at cs.tulane.edu'... Also, it will shortly be availible on my WWW page -- 'http://cs.tulane.edu/www/Winstead'... I've sent out preliminary copies to some people, and feedback has been fairly positive... 2. I have completed most of the work on a curses-based beer recipe formulator called 'BrewCalc' for UNIX. I'd like some other people to check it out to see if it works OK for you also. I have to ask that only people with programming experience evaluate this software. If you'd like to get a copy of the sources, you can mail me -- 'winstead at cs.tulane.edu'... I should be ready to get a copy to you in a week or two. 3. I originally entered the hobby of homebrewing in order to create the ideal beer for drinking with pizza. Evaluating many beers with pizza is an arduous task, but I wanted to share some of my thoughts about the perfect pizza beer's characteristics, and hopefully solicit some advice from more experienced pizza lovers/homebrewers. Here are the characteristics that I think are needed in a pizza beer: A. Should be a Lager, since Lagers are generally cleaner, and esters/fusel alcohols don't seem to agree with pizza the flavors and aromas of pizza (I think that this may have something to do with the delicate blend of sweet, somewhat fruity tomato sauce and saltiness of the cheese and meats of a properly made pizza pie. I think that an ale which is too fruity throws off that balance.) I'm not dead-set against ales here, I just think that lagers come closer to the RIGHT THING. B. Should utilize between 5%-10% of some light caramel malts. These caramel malts should lend minimal roasted flavor to the beer (i.e. these flavors should be secondary). These toasty/roasty flavors seem appropriate in a pizza beer, but I don't think that they should dominate. C. Should utilize Saaz and/or Hallertauer hops, as both of these varieties seem to give the right blend of spicy/floral aroma to the beer. This aroma, unlike fusels/esters, seems to complement the pizza very nicely. So, in short I like a light amber lager with good maltiness, complementary hoppiness, and a nice hop nose. Here's an example grain bill -- 90% DWC Belgian Pils Malt 5% DWC Cara Vienne 5% DWC Cara Pils - -------------------------- 20-25 IBUs and ample late- hop additions of Saaz or Hallertauer. OG of about 1.050 Wyeast Munich (I know this yeast gets ragged on alot, but it works really well for me.) or Bavarian Lager So, please report your pizza beer results! I'm excited to hear them. So far, I've come really close to the RIGHT THING, but not yet. (Yes, this is serious... And it beats all the I'll sue you and him and everyone else threads that predominate here lately.) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 00:59:41 -0800 (PST) From: Ward Weathers <psu01739 at odin.cc.pdx.edu> Subject: Bottle Durability I have been brewing with the same 200 bottles for the last year and half. When bottling today, I lost three bottles during capping due to chipping/breaking glass! I am using the two handled type of capper (which I understand break more than their share of bottles), but these were my first breakages. I am wondering if the bottles are wearing out, or was there just too much lateral action on the bottle? Does anyone have any comment on the durability of standard longneck bottles? Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 09:54:14 +0000 From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167) Subject: Malting - my mistake Thanks to those who pointed out the mistake in my recent posting about malting. The starch in a grain of barley is, of course, produced with the grain itself and not during the malting process. In fact, I'm not sure why I'd assumed this - I'll check my reference again to see if this was, in any way, implied or if (more likely) I just made it up. :) Cheers, Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 94 08:18:46 -0600 From: jay_weissler at il.us.swissbank.com (Jay Weissler) Subject: Motor a mill I did it, broke down and bought one of Jack's maltmill(tm). Now I'd like to motorize it. Can anyone help me with suggestions or with their experience? (Will this post pull Jack out of hibernation and back onto the net?). I was thinking of either using an electric drill or a circular saw (bolted down) to drive a pully. Does this sound feasible? Is there a suggested rpm for the mill? TIA jayw Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 09:20:20 -0600 From: "J. Pat Martinez" <martinez at puccini.crl.umn.edu> Subject: Hop vendors? I'm anxious to buy some hops from the 1994 harvest. I was going to purchase my hops either from HopTech or the Hop Source or both. Any opinion about either company? I'm assuming they are both excellent hop vendors. Pat M. % J. Pat Martinez % martinez at puccini.CRL.umn.edu % Univ. of Minnesota % Phone: (612) 625-2221 % Dept. of Plant Pathology % Fax: (612) 625-9728 Return to table of contents
Date: 7 Nov 94 09:00 CST From: Wolfe at act-12-po.act.org Subject: Weiss yeast Last week I posted a question about the yeast in a bottle of Kindl Weiss. Here is a summary of the responses I received. It seems that the yeast in Kindl Weiss is the same as the fermentation yeast (although it may be filtered and reinnoculated). The problem, however, is that the acidity in the beer may kill off the lactobacillus, which gives Kindl its sourness. So it seems that a culture from a bottle of Kindl Weiss, if it could be propogated, would probably not produce sourness in the finished beer. Someone reported that his friend tried to culture Kindl Weiss yeast from the bottle and was "spectacularly unsuccessful." Fortunately, two commercial strains of weiss yeast are available. Both are from Head Start Brewing Cultures run by Brian Nummer (BAN584 at TnTech.edu) who brought the cultures from Berlin last year. Both are rather expensive. The first is from Kindl and contains an ale yeast and lactobacillus ($6.95). The second is from Schultheiss and contains an ale yeast, lactobacillus, and brettanomyces ($9.95). I've also read that someone won a competition in the past few years with a Berliner Weiss using yeast they cultured from a bottle of Stoudt's Weizen (in Adamsville, PA). I've also heard of a few acceptable attempts at a Berliner Weiss using lambic mixtures. Ed Wolfe wolfe at act-12-po.act.org Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 11:01:33 -0500 (EST) From: "Jerry Cunningham (ESMPD)" <gcunning at Census.GOV> Subject: SN Celebration Ale recipe / partial mash question A few beer-related questions! 1. I am trying to get better at recognizing and describing flavors in beer. Last night I tried the 1994 Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale, and I really have no clue as to how to describe it! Does anybody know the 1994 recipe? It reminded me of Bigfoot (what a description - look out Michael Jackson ;>). Also, what does a vinegar-like taste mean? I tried a Pilsner-Urquell recently (on draft) and it had a vinegar-like aftertaste. I've tried P-U in the bottle and really enjoyed it, but this was a real bummer. 2. I'm slowly moving towards going all grain. I'm planning on using a cooler with copper manifold , since I have an old 32 quart igloo lying around ( previously used to hold massive quantities of Budmilloors, I must confess ). My question is, can I use this with partial mashes? Say 2 or 3 pounds of grain? Or do I need a smaller lauter tun? I'd like to try a few partial mashes first, to get my feet wet. Also, regarding the copyright situation: (Just kidding...!) (I hope the Coyote doesn't make me stay for detention) Thanks, Jerry Cunningham Annapolis, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 94 11:06:48 EST From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu Subject: partial mash (was Re: Liberty Ale) To my mind, the reasons for doing partial mash batches are: 1. (Primary reason) Come to understand that mashing is NOT magic. 2. Don't have a pot big enough to boil runnings for a full batch. =Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Mon Nov 7 08:29:40 1994 From: darrylri at microsoft.com Subject: Low gravity brewing: English Mild Jim Bush asks me about my technique for making Milds, in regards to the current discussion of low gravity beers. I like low gravity, so-called "session beers" because they are great for social occasions where it feels comfortable to have a glass in your hand, but nobody really wants to get out of control. The British have made this a longstanding social tradition, and low gravity beers in general have been the norm for their styles throughout this century. (This is in part why they have become so restive with recent price rises that make their pints about $2-$2.50, and why they are so upset at short pours, where the government has basically said they won't prosecute publicans who shave 5% from each pint.) But even lower gravity beers than the 1.035-1.040 bitters come from the industrial revolution and the large coal mining industry that was needed to feed it in the last century. These beers, called Mild Ale, usually have gravities in the low 30s, and even down into the high 20s. (There are a few examples of milds into the 1.045 range, but they are the exception that proves the rule.) What really distinguishes Mild from bitter is that Mild has low hop bitterness. Mild is usually darker than bitter, but there can be substantial overlap in the amber range. Some Milds have distinctive hop character in the nose and flavor, but usually the bitterness they have -- when they have it -- is derived from roasted malt. This can give Milds a nutty character, which can be pleasing with a distinctive and fruity yeast. Brains' Dark (1.035 OG) from Cardiff is a fine example of this type of Mild. I made a large batch of Mild last year -- almost 25 gallons -- easily, on my half barrel system. I brewed 12 gallons of 1.073 wort and then added 13 gallons of boiled, cooled, aerated water to my primary fermenter. (BTW, this was a 32 gallon food grade plastic "trash can" open fermenter.) In order to keep the body and flavor of the beer up, I boiled for almost 2 hours, and my mash went for saccharification at about 158F. I also chose to use Wyeast 1028, which has a very distinctive, woody character, so that the beer wouldn't turn out bland and uninteresting. The Mild One Soft Seattle Water 8.75 gal for mash in with 4.5 gm CaCO3, 4 gm CaCl2, 2 gm MgSO4 8 lbs. US 2 row 17 lbs. Dewolf-Coysins Pale Ale 3.5 lbs. Scottish Crystal (~35 L) 2 lbs. Crystal 70L 1.25lbs. Chocolate Sparge with 8 gal. untreated soft water. Boil off 3.75 gal. during two hours, adding ~24 IBUs of Kent Goldings hops (based on the final volume of the beer, in this case it was 170 gm of 6% alpha acid pellets). The yeast starter was stepped up twice, with a quart and then a half gallon of wort starter. The primary finished in 4 days at 60F, and I racked into carboys for a week of clarification before kegging. The FG was 1.010, for a batch of beer that was about 3.2% by volume, or about 2/3rds the strength of a standard beer. It was a dark brown in color, with a sweet initial palate and a (relatively) full body and a dryish finish. The yeast character showed through in the middle, although there wasn't a lot of fruitiness, probably due to the low fermentation temperatures. Because there is so much variety in the various beers sold in the UK under the name Mild (and for that matter, in Scotland as 60/'), this is hardly definitive of the style. I've only tasted about half a dozen Milds over there, and I know that I will be more thorough about it eventually. The best time to go, if that is your inclination, is during May, when CAMRA has their "May is Mild Month" campaign, and many brewers release special Milds just to take advantage of it. --Darryl Richman Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 94 11:42:59 -0500 From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst at zk3.dec.com> Subject: TSP Re: cleaning bottles with TSP: >I purchased was TSP-F phosphate-free.... Left behind was a layer of white film >inside and outside the bottle. >>I have been using TSP for each of the 8 batches I have done to clean >>bottles. I have had nothing but excellent success of course YMMV! I buy my >>TSP from _The Home Brewery_ in Missouri (800)321-BREW. I have never had a >>residue problem. It could be the type of TSP perhaps? TSP is Tri Sodium Phosphate and, due to a Federal ban, will soon be unavailable in the US. Some manufacturers are producing a "TSP Substitute" (that's the actual label on the boxes at the Home Depot) and maybe this is what the TSP-F is. I suspect that the substitutes are not as good as the real thing and my recommendation is to stock up on the real stuff while you can. It's about US$6 for a 5 pound box at a paint store or your life savings at a home brew store :-). The Federal ban was confirmed by several paint store owners (TSP is used as a wall cleaner) but I would appreciate a post on the details. Tony V. - --Tony Verhulst Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 08:44:58 -0800 (PST) From: malodah at pbgueuze.scrm2700.PacBell.COM (Martin Lodahl) Subject: Gassy kegged beer and gassy brewer (fwd) As I have no direct experience with this question, I'll pass this message on to the HBD community. Please reply to Kevin, not to me. Thanks! Forwarded message: > From: kane at ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu > > From: Kevin Kane Dept: Chemistry > KANE Tel No: 593-1746 > > Subject: Gassy kegged beer and gassy brewer > > I don't know if you're into kegging your brew, but I seem to have > trouble with intestinal activity after I drink my force-carbonated beer. I > don't really care, but my friends are being rather creative in their name > suggestions for my beers. The word is getting around that a beer-tasting > soiree at my place is a gas. > Any experience with this phenomemon? I thought about posting this to > HBD but the control program doesn't like my mailer program. Pass it on > if you think it's worthy of public discussion. > > Thanks, > > Kevin Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 94 09:40:34 PST From: Bob Tattershall <TATTERSH at WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU> Subject: are bulk extracts the same? Someone else asked this question in reference to Alexanders and M&F, etc. In other words are these malts different? I anticipate the answer will be that, yes, they are different due to the differences in malting processes, thus the purpose of malting your own barley. My question is a little different. I'm an extract brewer who buys "bulk" extracts from Williams, Brewers Resource, The Beverage People, etc. Are all of these various companies malting their own extracts themselves, and thus differentiating their product from other's products? Or are they all buying someone else's bulk malt and simply repackaging the same product under their own label? Anyone with a definitive answer? Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 94 13:22:02 EST From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu Subject: Priming with green beer (revisited) A while ago I posted some formulas for calculating the amount of gyle you need to prime, based on the actual attenuation you got in your fermentation. However, I made a conceptual error in one assumption upon which the formulas were based. Here's a correction: My original formula was based on the assumption that you want to get a certain rise in the SG for priming. This assumption was faulty. Now that I realized this, it's obvious. What you really want to do is to add a certain amount of fermentable sugar to the wort. Thus, the final gravity of the beer is used ONLY to compute the attenuation factor. Here are the revised equations. V(b) = Volume of beer in fermenter V(w) = Volume of saved wort E(b) = "Extract" (1000 * (SG - 1)) of beer E(w) = "Extract" of saved wort E(m) = "Extract" of added sugar in volume (beer + wort) RA = Real attenuation of wort VC = Desired volume CO2 Attenuation is easily calculated as (1) RA = 0.82 * (1 - E(b)/E(w)) thus, the desired sugar level can be expressed (recalling that 1.6 "SG points" gives 1 volume of CO2) (2) E(m) = VC * 1.6 / RA = VC / (.51 * (1 - E(b)/E(w))) Taking into account the dilution of the added wort into the beer, we also have V(w) * E(w) (3) E(m) = ------------- V(w) + V(b) Combining (2) and (3) and rearranging gives VC * V(b) (4) V(w) = ---------------------------------- 0.51 * [1-E(b)/E(w)] * E(w) - VC Or, if you have a fixed quantity of initial wort, and save some to add later, you get VC * V(b) (5) V(w) = ----------------------------- 0.51 * [1-E(b)/E(w)] * E(w) Now, let's take the example. 1.050 wort, 5 gallons beer, FG 1.008, desired carbonation 1.5 volumes. By (4), we have V(w) = 0.38 gallons = 1.5 quarts gyle RA = 69% This is the equivalent of adding 4.25 ounces of sugar to 5.38 gallons of beer, or 4 ounces to 5 gallons. It's also the same as adding 6.7 ounces of DME (of 69% fermentability) to 5 gallons. =Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI Return to table of contents
Date: 7 Nov 94 12:52:00 CST From: "DEV::SJK" <SJK%DEV.decnet at mdcgwy.mdc.com> Subject: Cheap kegs There have been a LOT of requests for a cheap source of Cornelius kegs lately. I've responded to more than a couple privately, but this is obviously of general interest. How to Get Really Cheap Soda Kegs: Virtually every scrapyard I've ever been to has piles of these things. Sometimes hundreds, both ball and pin, and very often (but not always) for a mere $5 apiece. You'll need to clean the kegs out as there will still be some syrup/soda in them, and you'll need to replace all five gaskets (~$3). I don't replace the poppets and instead I simply boil them in a little baking soda and water for 1-3 minutes. Get out your yellow pages and start calling scrapyards. Ask them for "soda kegs". I've found Sankeys and Golden Gate kegs to be almost as prevalent, usually at about $10 apiece. If you're in SoCal near Fairview and the 22, post me for the address of one of the better yards I've been to. Go get 'em! Scott Kaczorowski sjk at rc3a.mdc.com Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1573, 11/08/94