HOMEBREW Digest #1689 Sat 25 March 1995

Digest #1688 Digest #1690

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Recipe needed for Maibock ("Rick Gontarek, Ph.D.")
  Re: Pressure brewing ("Joseph E. Santos")
  DeWolf-Cosyns Pale Ale Malt and Clarity (Steve Zabarnick)
  Re: Orange Peel (Sean C. Cox)
  Racking problems ("Lee C. Bussy")
  Beer and Biotechnology (TPuskar)
  RE: Reno Brewpubs (Jim Dipalma)
  Homegrown Hops and AA (Russell Mast)
  Hydroponic Hops? (Russell Mast)
  Wit, phenols and other goodies (Jim Busch)
  Easy Method for Purging O2 (Philip Hofstrand)
  Why rack inverted carboy? (Eric Peters (919) 405-3675)
  Pre-cooking ingredients (MHANSEN)
  A few words on gelatin (Jeff Guillet)
  Mead inquiry ("Christopher D. Dudley")
  Racking (berkun at decwet.enet.dec.com)
  counterflow chillers (Ronald Moucka)
  Pseudo-beer engine (Geoff Scott)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 7:35:55 -0500 (EST) From: "Rick Gontarek, Ph.D." <GONTAREK at FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV> Subject: Recipe needed for Maibock Hello everyone! I was hoping that someone could help me out with a recipe for a (tried and true) Maibock. I can't seem to find a good recipe in any of the usual books. TIA. By the way, with all of this talk about milling wheat, does anyone know if I can use my PhillMill to crush wheat? Will it screw up the rollers? Rick Gontarek Owner/Brewmaster of the Major Groove Picobrewery Baltimore, MD gontarek at fcrfv1.ncifcrf.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 08:20:49 -0500 (EST) From: "Joseph E. Santos" <jesantos at WPI.EDU> Subject: Re: Pressure brewing MnMGuy at aol.com asks: >...something about submerging beer in water to carbonate....Anybody know >how many psi one atmosphere is? What psi is carbonated beer? I think the difficulty here is with the word 'carbonation'. If you placed the beer at a depth of ninety feet(3 atmospheres) the air would go into solution at a higher concentration but the beer would *NOT* be carbonated. That is, unless you sealed it and brought it to the surface. It would then be carbonated to 2 atmospheres. 3 atm at depth - 1 atm at surface = 2 atm air in solution 1 atmosphere = 14.696 psia (absolute pressure) = 101.325 kPa (kilopascals absolute) The carbonation level in beverages is measured in psig that is pounds per square inch guage. This is a measurement of pressure in relationship to a reference pressure. At 1 atm a container of liquid will absorb as much as the 14.7 psi of atm allows but if you measured the guage pressure the reading would be 0 because there is no differential pressure. side note: As a student of Mechanical Engineering I am fairly confident these facts hold true, but in my previous life I had the opportunity to have not only a job but an adventure. I was a qualified Navy Diver. As such I did some pretty interesting things which included a research project to expand the decompression limits for divers. I had to spend 6 hours in a dry dive chamber pressurized to an equivalent of 40 feet of sea pressure. 6 hours of alternately riding an exercise bike and sitting makes one hungry so we had some fast food brought in through an air lock the burgers were great but without thinking I ordered a large coke. I soon realized my error with the first sip *completely FLAT*. This experience proves the above theories. The actual pressure of my beers can't be determined through the caps or in a glass so I can't help you there. DR J (Just another happy homebrewer!) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:43:23 -0500 From: steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil (Steve Zabarnick) Subject: DeWolf-Cosyns Pale Ale Malt and Clarity If noticed that my beers made from DeWolf-Cosyns Pale Ale Malt tend to have clarity problems. Other malts I've used with the same process have not shown this problem (Klages and M&F Pale Ale). I use a single-step infusion mash at 150-155 F. The initial runnings from the sparge appear quite cloudy despite significant recirculation. George Fix does not mention clarity issues for this malt in his BT article on Belgian grains. Have others encountered this clarity problem? Also, an Oktoberfest made with D-C Pilsner and Munich malts came out brilliantly clear. What is strange about the Pale Ale? Steve Zabarnick steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil Dayton, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 09:17:43 EST From: scox at factset.com (Sean C. Cox) Subject: Re: Orange Peel Aaron Shaw wrote about Orange Peel: > do not use oranges that are "orange", because they > have been dyed for appearance. =Spencer Thomas replied: =As far as I know, this is not true. Do you have real evidence to back =up this statement? My in-laws (just outside Orlando) have a couple orange trees in their backyard which demonstrate that both of you are right :-) Their Valencia (juicing orange) has generally yellow, lightly orange fruits, whereas their Navel (eating orange) is pretty orange. The only thing they put on their trees is water. :-) Having seen (& picked) them for a couple years, it seems to me that it's a varietal trait. However, I wouldn't put it past someone with lots of Valencias to dye them orange and sell them as eating oranges (just look what some people call beer!). --Sean =-=-= Sean Cox =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= FactSet Data Systems =-=-= =-=-= scox at factset.com =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 1 Greenwich Plaza =-=-= =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Greenwich, CT 06830 =-=-= Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:00:59 +0000 From: "Lee C. Bussy" <leeb at southwind.net> Subject: Racking problems Gregory J Egle in what I guess was a reply to another post that I didn't read posts this: Whenever I rack beer from one carboy to another I run into the same problem.Right where the hose meets the racking cane, I get a diminished flow rate. Sometimes just a trickle. It seems like reason for this is the difference in inside diameter between I have found that the pressure drop created during racking forces dissolved CO2 out of suspension and it will collect right there where the tube meets the cane. This sometimes gets bad enough to break the syphon. I just pinch the tube where it meets the cane and it disturbs the flow enough to wash the bubble downstream. Hope that helps some or at least I read the question right. - -- -Lee Bussy | The 4 Basic Foodgroups.... | leeb at southwind.net | Salt, Fat, Beer & Women! | Wichita, Kansas | http://www.southwind.net/~leeb | Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:14:34 -0500 From: TPuskar at aol.com Subject: Beer and Biotechnology This is for the heavy duty science types in the crowd. There's an interesting article in the March 1995 issue of Bio/Technology magazine entitled "What's Brewing in Barley Biotechnology." It has an interesting overview of the brewing process as it relates to the biochemistry of our favorite grain. The article claims the overall USA market for barley as a raw commodity is *$1 billion* a year and the brewing industry has 2.7 million employees! Wonder if they counted all of us homebrewers? <g> Apologies for the sort of non-beer related post. Thought some of the biotechies might be interested. Tom Puskar Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 10:33:09 EST From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma) Subject: RE: Reno Brewpubs Hi All, In HBD#1688, Jeff Nielsen writes about high FGs: >I'm having trouble attaining the appropriate final gravities since I switched >to using Cornelious kegs as fermenters. >I've read here in the past that the geometry of these kegs >aren't really optimum. Some time ago, George Fix wrote an article regarding the aspect ratio of fermenters (the ratio of height to diameter), and the effects of the aspect ratio on fermentation. I can't quite recall where I read this article, nor do I have it on hand. What I do recall is that the article said the "ideal situation" is when the aspect ratio is 1:1 or less, and that it should not exceed 2:1. The aspect ratio of Corny kegs is a little over 3:1, I think, the ball lock kegs I have are 9" in diameter and ~28" in height. As I recall, the article went on to state that elevated levels of diacetyl and higher than normal FGs were observed when using taller, narrower fermenters versus short, squat ones. A friend of mine who's a proficient lager brewer experienced those same two problems when he switched to fermenting in Cornys about a year ago. The problems disappeared when he went back to using 6.5 gallon carboys. Jeff, I'd suggest giving Fix's article a read, but FWIW I think the high FGs you are seeing are related to fermenter geometry. Cheers, Jim dipalma at sky.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 09:51:27 CST From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: Homegrown Hops and AA According to a book I have on homegrowing hops, there's virtually no practical way to determine your AA. If you know someone who grows hops professionally, you might be able to get a bulk rate on lab work. You could also expiriment with it. The book says that homegrown hops are probably best used for finishing hops if you're concerned about accuracy. I'd imagine that good lab work on hops would be too expensive to be worth it for a homebrewer, but if I'm wrong, that's great. -R Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 10:10:57 CST From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: Hydroponic Hops? I've missed about a year of HBD, so maybe this is an old discussion, but has anyone tried to grow hops indoors hydroponically? Does anyone have any information about whether or houw this could be done? Thanks, -R Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 11:22:51 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Wit, phenols and other goodies Spencer says: <* At the SOB, Celis said his beer has (for spices) bitter orange peel, <coriander, and sweet orange peel. Nothing else! This is apparently <the most definite he'd ever been on the topic. He refused to <elaborate on the souring, saying something like "that's the tricky <part." (I'm definitely paraphrasing here.) Ive been looking into this. I was shocked to hear Pierre say he used sweet orange in the Wit. Since I am brewing the AHA conference beer, and I am using sweet orange, I had a search to find it. I have this second-hand, but I have no reason to disbelieve it: Peter Camps said he only uses bitter orange. Can someone near Austin, or a Celis visitor confirm this? I did end up getting Sweet Orange from the Frozen Wort. It came in little pieces, like what you find at health food and spice shops. Ill be using it soon, so I dont have results yet. I have heard that it will (is?) for sale at the Wort. It tastes a bit orangey, then becomes more bitter as it dissolves. My original hand imported sweet peel was a different looking product, but they could be the same thing. I said: <.False bottoms are sold in many shops now. Be sure to get perf sheet SS. I should have said: false bottoms are sold at the Brewers Wharehouse in Seattle and at East Coast Brewing Supply, NYC. < Saturation for O2 in water at around room temperature is on the order <of 10 ppm. This is higher than the empirically determined values by Dr. Fix. It will be in his next book, from what I hear. <i have just begun fermenting 10-15 gallon batches and am wondering how often <i should rack the beer off of the sediment- so far i am just following <Dave Miller's rec. as if i had started with a large starter- ie when the <bubbling drops to at every 30 seconds i rack- should i rack again? or <earlier? < Do the same thing you would do in a 5 gal ferment. For ale, a single or two step ferment is fine. Lagers should be racked after primary. <Dave Draper's post not too long ago about making American <Wheat Beers (he doesn't like phenolics) and Jim Busch's <reply (yuk!) made me wonder where these preferences come <from. I'm in Dave's camp, can't stand the phenolics. < So - are the phenolic flavor lovers former paste eaters? I can assure you I have never been a paste eater! My love of Weizens is a direct consequence of drinking so many good German versions. About copper racking canes. I made one years ago and still use it. I took 1/2 " soft copper and bent it into a large version of a homebrew shop cane. Soldered a copper end cap to it, workd great for boil racking or fermenter racking. FWIW, hop shoots are up in Maryland. Jim Busch Colesville, Md busch at mews.gsfc.nasa.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 10:06:05 -0800 (PST) From: Philip Hofstrand <philiph at u.washington.edu> Subject: Easy Method for Purging O2 Greetings, Fellow Brewers: Having benefited from much that is posted here, I thought I'd try to repay the favor: Those of you without a CO2 tank (yet) may want to give this technique a try. I've used it for two batches with no problems. When racking to the secondary, I was concerned about potentially oxidizing my wort, and yet dropping a hose all the way into the carboy didn't appeal to me for sanitation reasons. My work-around for this is to get dry ice pellets from our lab, and drop a few into the empty secondary before racking. Dry ice can be found at grocery stores (meat or seafood counter), and is fairly cheap. However, most of them sell it as slabs, so you'll need to break it up with a hammer. Keep it in the wrapper while hammering to avoid contamination. Let the pellets dissolve (or sublimate, if you're picky about your science) completely, and you should have an O2-free carboy to rack into. A good way to verify this is to carefully lower a long kitchen match into the carboy: the flame will go out when the CO2 layer is reached. Simple. Well, hope that's useful to some of you. Until next time, Phil - -- Philip Hofstrand (philiph at u.washington.edu) "In taberna quando sumus, non curamus quid sit humus" "When we are in the tavern, we spare no thought for the grave" Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 14:36:16 EST From: epeters at edasich.rtp.semi.harris.com (Eric Peters (919) 405-3675) Subject: Why rack inverted carboy? In HBD 1688 Mark Prazer writes: > >In HBD 1680, Bob Christopher <oldfogy at svpal.org> wrote: >|> >|> As I mentioned before... With 2 "Fermentaps" you can transfer from primary >|> carboy to your secondary carboy in an oxygen-free atmosphere and lose very >|> little of your precious brew. >|> >Correct. But you do NOT need 2 Fermentaps to do this. > >Try this method. During active fermentation (in the primary w/ the >Fermentap), sanitize your secondary carboy. Then take the exhaust hose >(the one connected to the racking cane) and put it in the secondary >carboy "filling" it with CO2. When filled (an hour maybe?), pop an >air lock on it and keep it around for the next week when you rack to >it. Then remove the Fermentap from the primary, clean it, put it in >the secondary, invert, etc. I would guesstimate that this method is >over 95% O2 free and about $30 cheaper than buying 2 Fermentaps. > My brother and I have fermented two hundred gallons in inverted carboys and have *never* racked our beer. Instead of removing your beer from the break/trub/sediment, remove the sediment from your beer. That is the beauty of inverted carboy fermentation, primary and secondary ferments in one vessel, no racking, no siphoning, no worries. Fill your carboy as usual. Pitch your yeast, and invert. Every day or so, depending on how you feel, drain your sediment. When fermentation is complete, drain directly into your keg. If you bottle your beer, prime in the carboy, remove it from the stand to mix properly, return it to the stand, attach your filler, and go man go. We all know there's no free lunch. The inverted carboy does have a limitation. Sediment will collect on the shoulder without falling into the neck where it can be drained. This is when your carboy stand becomes critical. Our stand holds four carboys. Each carboy rests on a "Lazy Susan" bearing (this has been discussed at length recently by numerous people, including my brother, hope I'm not beating a dead horse.) When it comes time to drain your sediment, give the carboy a series of rapid twists on its bearing and matter resting on the shoulders will fall into the neck. The amount of twisting neccessary will depend on what yeast you use and when you last twisted it. Fermentap vs. Brewcap Before I say anything, let me state that I have not seen a Fermentap in person and am not fully qualified to be very critical of it. From what I've seen in its advertisements, the stand does not appear to facilitate this rotational twist movement that I speak of (I may be wrong and if so, I apologize for spreading misinformation,) and may not be worth the extra money paid for it. The Brewcap is less expensive, easy to assemble, and simple to use. However, the Brewcap requires you to build a stand, which may be a draw back or a good thing, depending on who you are. The drain tube and valve on the Brewcap are a small diameter and can clog, especially of you get hop pieces in the fermenter. We don't use pellet hops (thats a different can o'worms,) and don't get hop peices in our fermenters. Is inverted carboy fermentation *really* easier? I strongly think so, but I know some brewers who disagree. It only takes a couple seconds to drain sediment and just a little longer to twist it into the neck. We drain a few times during early fermentation to remove cold break (debatable if neccessary), then wait a few days until fermentation slows and yeast falls rapidly before removing sediment on a near daily basis until fermentation stops. Daily sounds like a lot but its a good opportunity to check for crickets in the bubblers and do a little bonding with your beer, quality time. A good trick is to ferment at your brother's house and make him do all the work :-) We have never dry-hopped in an inverted carboy. Can anyone share their experiences. I am not affiliated with the Fermentap or the Brewcap or any other brewing item in any way, shape, or form. Eric Peters Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 13:57:53 -0600 From: MHANSEN at ctdmc.pmeh.uiowa.edu Subject: Pre-cooking ingredients Hey CW (Collective Wisdom), The thread on Wit (NOT Wit!) bier and the subsequent responses of people precooking their unmalted wheat or flaked wheat (or any other grain, for that matter) brings up a question. At what temp and for how long do you cook them? After they are cooked do you just proceed with your usual mashing procedure (eg. protein rest, saccharification, mash-out) or would your mashing process change somewhat? FWIW, I am not a paste-eater and I love the phenolics in weizen :-) Thanks and brew on, Mike (michael-d-hansen at uiowa.edu) - Do not smoke grains. It makes you cough :-) - Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 09:21:00 GMT From: jeff.guillet at lcabin.com (Jeff Guillet) Subject: A few words on gelatin After over a year of brewing all sorts of different styles, I've decided to start brewing beers I really *like* . My latest batch is "Dad's Birthday Brown" and I may say it's probably the best beer I've ever made. It is also the first beer I've made where I used gelatin for clearing. It definitely will not be my last. I added one package of Knox unflavored gelatin to 1 cup of warm/hottish water, dissolved it thoroughly, and poured it into my secondary. Three days later I bottled. The gelatin cleared the beer beautifully and had the added benefit of making the sediment in the carboy "stick" to the bottom of it. I carried the carboy from the kitchen to the garage without disturbing the sediment at all. I haven't noticed *any* discernible off taste due to the gelatin. This leads me to the following conclusion: Irish Moss is dead, *GELATIN* is God. -=Jeff=- Internet: jeff.guillet at lcabin.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 16:41:46 -0500 (EST) From: "Christopher D. Dudley" <CNDUDLEYC at cscacs.csc.vsc.edu> Subject: Mead inquiry Hello all! I was wondering if anyone could give me ANY info on mead? I am very interested in it but have never tried it. It sounds quite yummy but I don't know where I can get it. I am also interested in brewing it once I find out if I like it. Thank you for your help!!! Christopher !*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*! Christopher Dudley----------------------------------------Assistant Vax Manager cndudleyc at cscacs.csc.vsc.edu----------------------------Castleton State College Where in a brook With a hook, Or a lake, Fish we take; There we sit, For a bit, Till we fish entangle. (from The Compleat Angler) !^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^!^! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 95 14:04:19 PST From: berkun at decwet.enet.dec.com <berkun at decwet.enet.dec.com> Subject: Racking There seem to be a number of siphon impaired people on the net lately. Personally I don't have this problem, having spent 15 years with tropical fish. 1. I dry hop in a 5 gallon carboy with whole hops. The hops float, the racking cane goes to the bottom, no hops in cane, no problem. Stay with whole hops. 2. I siphon right out of my boiling kettle into the carboy. I use a copper racking cane (to answer another recently asked question). I made this out of left over copper tubing from my immersion chiller. I sanitize it by dipping one end in iodophor or chlorine solution and then (after rinsing) sticking the other end in the boiling wort at the same time I stick in the immersion cooler. Chemical sanitize the one end, boil sanitize the other. Don't know if it's legit, but it works. I siphon through a copper scrubber and I've never had a problem with it stuffing up. It does sometimes fall off the end, but I just jab the tube back into it. I also siphon thru a short piece of copper with holes in it. This produces the famed Venturi effect, aerating my wort at the same time. No carboy dances. 3. I start the siphon by filling the hose with water. A little tap water never hurt anyone (well...rarely). 4. If your hose is bending where it meets the racking cane it will impede the flow. Just take care to keep that area straight and use a more gentle curve to reach whereever you're going to. Have fun. There is no gravity, the earth sucks. Ken Berkun Seattle Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 17:42:47 GMT From: rmoucka at omn.com (Ronald Moucka) Subject: counterflow chillers Brewers, A quick question about counterflow chillers. A few weeks ago someone asked about the copper coiled in a large diameter PVC type, rather than the garden hose type. I think the PVC style would fit my "Brew Magic" type brewing system I'm putting together better than the hose. Sorry I didn't write the poster's address down. Has anyone tried this version? Are they harder to make? Less/more efficient? I'm picturing the hot wort flowing from the kettle, through a hop back, through the chiller, and into the fermenter. Ideas? Warnings? Cautions? Many TIA Ron Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 23:45:08 -0500 From: gscott at io.org (Geoff Scott) Subject: Pseudo-beer engine Well all this beer engine / sparkler discussion got me thinking. The standard taps on my beer fridge don't do my UK styles justice. I liked Bob's article in Zymurgy because it combined elements of the traditional beer engine with current homebrew set-ups. I'm pretty well satisfied with "artificial" CO2 but I liked the idea of forcing the beer through small orifices to create smaller bubbles in the head. I considered adding a third tap to my fridge following Bob's design but my fridge only holds two kegs and I wanted to keep the existing (expensive) taps in service. As an experiment I drilled a 1/16th inch hole in a dime sized disk of stainless. I put the disk in the connection between the shank of the tap and the beer line from the keg. While this really slows down the pouring, it creates the small bubbles I was looking for. Give it a try! Since my first attempt worked, I didn't experiment with hole sizes or number of holes - of course YMMV. regards, Geoff Scott gscott at io.org Brewing page http://www.io.org/~gscott Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1689, 03/25/95