HOMEBREW Digest #1702 Mon 10 April 1995

Digest #1701 Digest #1703

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Posting Competition Results (Bryan Dawe)
  Spruce Beer? (Bill Arduser)
  The Secrets of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale ("Jim Fitzgerald")
  Kitchenaid Powered Grain Mill (dsanderson)
  Torque ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
  Ireks Observation (John McCauley)
  Bungs (CA2160)
  1995 Bluebonnet Brew-off Results (Chris Simon)
  Beer Stuff ("Harrington, Stephen J")
  Bananas! (MnMGuy)
  Bar Hand Towels (Robin Hanson)
  kegging/malt recipes ("Wallinger, W. A.")
  Yeast Questions/ (Rich Larsen)
  Atlas Pasta Mill Modifications (Curt Woodson)
  starters/yeast/secondaries/Laaglander/DWC Extract/old extract/adding salts/decoction (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Re: Schmidling, Commercialism & getting torqued-up (in ft-lbs or lb-ft)? (harry)
  CO2 Tank Quick Disconnect? ("Wuerstl, Matthew A.")
  bad beer, use of (DONBREW)
  weihenstephan liquid yeast and sulphory smells ("mike spinelli")
  broadside from you know who (Jay Hersh)
  Cleveland Brew Spots? (Greg O'Brien)
  posting competition results (Dan Pack)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 9:26:46 MDT From: Bryan Dawe <bryand at gr.hp.com> Subject: Posting Competition Results Mr. Hollenbeck wrote with respect to posting competition results in HBD: > While your suggestion of a one-liner is feasible, I think there are > people who actually read the posted results, who would not Email off > for them. I think it is worth it. At risk of "beating a dead horse," I just thought I might add a little data to support the above assertion. *I* am one of those people who read competition results who would not otherwise email to obtain a copy. I personally would be disappointed if those results were not posted to HBD. > Besides, there is a lot more useless stuff posted than the total > bandwidth of competition results. Without doubt. I skip those articles with which I am not interested. I do not mind a bit when those articles are beer related. Bryan P. Dawe bryand at hpgriy.gr.hp.com R&D Engineer, Hewlett-Packard Company Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 11:51:59 -0400 From: Bill Arduser <bill at dvcorp.com> Subject: Spruce Beer? Hi Folks, Time to brew a spruce beer. Do I want blue or white spruce? How much? For that matter, should I use the new growth, as I've seen recommended in several books? Someone has recommended that I scrape spruce gum off the sides of trees and use that. He said that beer made that way would take less time to mature. Please don't tell me to use extract, that's not what I had in mind. I bottled my first all-grain last night (A somewhat nondescript Belgain, light in color, sg 1.076). I think it will be really good after some aging. I want to thank all of you for the many hints on all grain brewing. I probably wouldn't have had the nerve to try it otherwise. Bill Arduser DataViews Corporation, 47 Pleasant St, Northampton, MA. 01060 Internet:bill at dvcorp.com voice:(413)586-8371, x284 fax:(413)586-3805 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 08:55:37 +0000 From: "Jim Fitzgerald" <jimfitz at netcom.com> Subject: The Secrets of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale I've spent a couple of years trying to perfect my Sierra Nevada Pale Ale home brew recipe and through the course of this time have come up with a lot of good questions about the "secrets" of this Chico brewery and have read about and heard a lot of conflicting stories about how this beer is actually created there at SN. The good thing here is that there is a happy ending to this story. I can make Pale Ale now that's pretty close to SNPA...but it did take a lot of experimenting and disappointing batches to make this beer come close to what I would call the best pale ale brewed in the US, and maybe the world. Now I realize that the methods that I use at home in my humble little 15 gallon brew pot don't necessarily have to be same as the SN brewery's methods, but at this point it would be interesting to get a couple of facts settled once and for all. So here are the burning questions about the Secerts of SNPA, with of course my $0.02 worth attached; Grain and mash: SN has published the malts that they use for all of their beers, for SNPA they list 2-row barley, Carmel and Dextrin malts. In a 5.5 gallon batch with 95% mash efficiency I use the following; 7.5 lbs. 2-row lager malt 1/2 lb Crystal Malt (60L) 1/2 lb Caripils I do a simple infusion mash with the following steps; 3 gallons mash water Protein Rest 122F for 30 minutes Conversion Rest 156F for 2 hours (I'm sure this is plenty of time...) Mash out at 168F Sparge with 7-8 gallons of pH 5.7 at 168F Now I'm not sure what SN really does in their mash. The question here is do they use a decoction mash for this beer? I have done a maibock (SNPB style, of course) with a docoction mash which I feel is needed for all bock style beers, but that's a different story that I'll use in another post. I guess it really doesn't matter too much because this mash seems to work well, but I would like to hear the facts...and anyone else's ideas on improving this mash. The starting gravity of this mash is around 1.054, I think this puts in the ball park of were we need to be. SN also publishes this information as 13 Plato which I believe translates into around 1.052. Now I also use Fred Echhardt's book "The Essentials of Beer Style" when trying to brew beer styles that I like and he lists the SG at 13.9 Plato or 1.057...so I think we are close here. Hops: OK, here's where it starts to get interesting. SN has also published this information by stating; Bittering Hops: Perle, Finishing Hops: Cascade (period)...They also state that they use whole hops (which I always use anyway) and that a large portion is added late in the boil so the volatile oils are retained...the key words here are in the boil...no mention of a hopback, and from Gary Bell's post about a recent trip to the brewery, they don't ever talk about one there either...the only place that I have ever heard about it is in magazines and from people that, as far as I know are only assuming they use one because of the nice cascade aroma of SNPA (I was one of these people, at first). So, needless to say this is where most of the experimentation comes in. Again, I used Eckhardt's book for some key pieces of information...thanks Fred (and no, he's not related...). The two other pieces of information that I used here are the color, which actually help a little in selecting the grain bill and the bitterness which is listed as 32 IBU. This is something that I have not seen SN publish. He also talks about hop character in this book which helped figure out the bitterness and how to calculate late drops of hops into the boil. Anyway, this is my current hop drop into the a 90 minute boil; 1 oz Perle (60 minutes) (5.5%AAU) 1/2 oz Perle (30 Minutes) (5.5% AAU) 1/2 oz Cascade (15 minutes) (5.7% AAU) 1/2 oz Cascade (Finishing) (5.7%AAU) I know, the Perle is a little bit weak this year, but this calculates out to around 32 IBU. I still play around with these drops, but this seems to work OK. Now the interesting part. I visited Los Gatos Brewing Company a few month back and had lunch there at a very quite time. I had a chance to try the Pale Ale that was on tap there and it was very close to SNPA, not quite...but the best micro brewery example of it that I have tasted. (To plug the LGBC which they well deserve, all of their beers, which are mostly lagers are wonderful...Good job Jeff!) Anyway I did get a chance to chat with Jeff Alexander there and he gave me the information that I needed to perfect my pale ale...he dry hoped in the secondary with cascade. This is something that the brewery does not talk about if they do it, but it made all of the difference in the world for my batches. I really never thought of doing this because they do list the beers that they dry hop which are Big Foot and Celebration. So the big question here is what exactly do they do with hops in a SNPA at the brewery? Yeast: I have always used Wyeast 1058 (American Ale) for my SNPA style pale ale...but, the question is, can I use the culture that I have from the bottle? SN does use the same yeast over and over by repitching what they have, but I'm not quite sure if it's really the same as the Chico American Ale yeast. I've gone through a lot of the yeast FAQ's and got really tired seeing this one go back and forth in one of the news groups (which it may just do here too) and the answer to this simple question has never really been settled. I do have this culture from the bottle but I have never used it because from what I have read in some places it is a different yeast that they use to bottle condition, which I don't really think I believe, but I'm not willing to blow a batch of good beer either. OK, I've used up enough bandwidth for one post. I hope this sparks up some good interest, and I also hope that some of these mysteries can be solved...and discussed... Cheers! Jim - ------------------------- Jim Fitzgerald Los Gatos, CA jimfitz at netcom.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 95 12:21:02 EST From: dsanderson at msgate.cv.com Subject: Kitchenaid Powered Grain Mill Can anyone provide a review of the Kitchenaid Grinding Mill for homebrew purposes? It's a plate variety that is highly adjustable and appears to be of very high quality. A dealer here in Massachusetts has them for $118. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 95 11:25:00 MST From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil> Subject: Torque RE: HBD 1699 Torque (Regrading foot-pounds vs pound feet) >> I think that x foot-pounds = 1/x pound-feet. Either that or x(fp) = x(pf)... >It's not that simple...one is not the inverse of the other It's even simpler, his "Either that or..." comment is the correct one. Force times displacement: ft-lb and lb-ft are exactly identical, no? I really think this is the associative property of multiplication applied to dimensional analysis: force*distance = distance*force. Meter*Newtons or Newton*meters, potatoes per firkin, etc... Kirk R Fleming / Colorado Springs / flemingk at usa.net Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:26:49 -0400 From: ctgnet at cais.cais.com (John McCauley) Subject: Ireks Observation I just recently noticed that cans of Ireks LME appear to be lined with a plastic-like film so that the product doesn't contact the metal. Is this unique to Ireks? I don't seem to recall the same thing with Alexander's or M&F. | John McCauley | Strange women, lying in ponds and | ctgnet at cais.com | distributing swords, is no basis | | for a system of government. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 12:28:11 CST From: CA2160 at siucvmb.siu.edu Subject: Bungs SENT BY: Jonas Hartzler (CA2160) Lab Tech III Ph: 453-6205 Y'all write back now, ya hear? I have searched my local homebrew supply stores and a couple mail order places but can't seem to find a good place to get bungs for my kegging system. I should be starting up kegging in a couple weeks and would appreciate info on where the best places to look/find bungs are. Private email please. Jonas *** Information Technology --- Lab Technician III *** *** CA2160 at SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU - Rehn Hall Room 17 *** *** Southern Illinois University - Carbondale, IL *** Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 14:56:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Simon <SIMON_C at Eisner.DECUS.Org> Subject: 1995 Bluebonnet Brew-off Results 9th Annual Bluebonnet Brew-off March 31 - April 1, 1995 Final Results: 1. Barleywine 1st - Russ Bee, NTHBA 2nd - Wayne Rodrigue, CCH 3rd - Jay Johnsrud, DFBS HM - Just Dave & New Phil, CC 2. Belgian & French Ale 1st - David Hensley, NTHBA 2nd - Rob Stenson, CC 3rd - Kevin Hardee, NTHBA HM - Dan Gill, CC 3. Belgian-Style Lambic 1st - Robert Carter, DFBS 2nd - Steve Roberts, FR 3rd - Charlie Gottenkieny, NTHBA 4. Brown Ale 1st - Ronald Raike, CFHB 2nd - Kevin Hardee, NTHBA 3rd - Russ Bee, NTHBA HM - David Routledge, DFBS 5. English-Style Pale Ale 1st - Jeff Worth, CC 2nd - Jack Sparks, independent from Dallas, TX 3rd - Mark Schoppe, independent from Leander, TX HM - William Dubas, CC 6. American-Style Ale 1st - Kevin Hardee, NTHBA 2nd - David Pappas & Carl "Moose" Minion, CFHB 3rd - Russ Bee, NTHBA HM - Paul Amellin, CFHB HM - Charlie Feder, NTHBA 7. English Bitter 1st - Amy Lachmanek, independent from Sierra Vista, AZ 2nd - Bob Haupert & Ernie Stephens, NTHBA 3rd - David Lloyd, DFBS HM - Robert Pope, CC HM - Paul Egan, NTHBA 8. Scottish Ale 1st - Dan Gill, CC 2nd - Patrick Rohrbacher, BCB 3rd - Robert Pope, CC 9. Porter 1st - Steve Vallancourt, CFHB 2nd - Alan Collins, NTHBA 3rd - Just Dave & New Phil, CC HM - Stephen Murphrey, DFBS HM - Tyler Weaver, NTHBA 10. English & Scottish Strong Ale 1st - Rob Stenson, CC 2nd - Steve Vallancourt, CFHB 3rd - Stephen Murphrey, DFBS 11. Stout 1st - Steve Vallancourt, CFHB 2nd - Mark Shelton, NTHBA 3rd - Jeff Raymond & David Yglesias, CC HM - Just Dave & New Phil, CC 12. Bock 1st - David Lloyd, DFBS 2nd - Bob Haupert & Ernie Stephens, NTHBA 3rd - Preston Merrick, CFHB 13. Bavarian Dark 1st - Bob Haupert & Ernie Stephens, NTHBA 2nd - Darrell Simon, NTHBA 3rd - Roger Jones, DFBS 14. German Light Lager 1st - Carl Saxer, CFHB 2nd - Michael Partlow, CC 3rd - Preston Merrick, CFHB 15. Classic Pilsener 1st - Kerry Hauptli, DFBS 2nd - Darrell Simon, NTHBA 3rd - John Morrison, DFBS HM - Bob Haupert & Ernie Stephens, NTHBA 16. American Lager 1st - Darrell Simon, NTHBA 2nd - John Morrison, DFBS 3rd - Tony Prado, CC 17. Vienna/Oktoberfest/Marzen 1st - Steven Zabarnick, independent from Dayton, OH 2nd - Kevin Hardee, NTHBA 3rd - Tom Henderson, NTHBA HM - Roger Jones, DFBS 18. German-Style Ale 1st - Todd Kellenbenz, FR 2nd - Michael Lentz, CSM 3rd - Peter Bellecy, BCB 19. Fruit Beer 1st - Ron Wilkinson, CFHB 2nd - Russ Bee, NTHBA 3rd - Chris Simon, NTHBA HM - Carl Saxer, CFHB 20. Herb Beer 1st - David Shore, Rick Smith & Jeanie Menti, CC 2nd - Gary Michel, CFHB 3rd - Robert Pope, CC HM - Ken Haycook, NTHBA 21. Specialty Beer 1st - Steve Vallancourt, CFHB 2nd - Randy Robertson, DFBS 3rd - Michael Lentz, CSM HM - Rick Calley, NTHBA 22. Smoked Beer 1st - Carlos Kelley, CC 2nd - Michael Lentz, CSM 3rd - Dan Gill, CC 23. California Common 1st - Rick Calley, NTHBA 2nd - Mark Shelton, NTHBA 3rd - John Manczuk, CC HM - Carlos Kelley, CC 24. Wheat Beer 1st - Mitchel Whitington, independent from Garland, TX 2nd - Tony Cox, independent from Flower Mound, TX 3rd - Ernie Stephens & Eric Maki, NTHBA 25. Traditional Mead 1st - Al Schneider, NTHBA 2nd - John Butler, NTHBA 3rd - David Pappas, CFHB HM - Leroy Gibbins, FR 26. Fruit Mead 1st - Leroy Gibbins, FR 2nd - New Phil & Just Dave, CC 3rd - Bruce Stevens, MALT 27. Herb Mead 1st - Jim Woll, NTHBA 2nd - David Lupin, FR 3rd - Darrell Simon, NTHBA 28. Cider 1st - Richard Denton, DFBS 2nd - Lucy Hassler, CC 3rd - Michael Wiley, BAM Best of Show Honorable Mentions Leroy Gibbins, Foam Rangers, for Fruit Mead Todd Kellenbenz, Foam Rangers, for German-Style Ale Best Extract Jeff Worth, Cowtown Cappers, for English-Style Pale Ale Best All-Grain Kevin Hardee, North Texas Homebrewers Assoc., for American-Style Ale Best of Show Kevin Hardee, NTHBA, for American-Style Ale Glen Mueller-Frank Browne Club Quality Award (given to one of the organizing clubs - Cowtown Cappers, Denton Fermented Brewers Society, Arlington Homebrewers, and North Texas Homebrewers Assoc. - with the highest average top ten first round scores) North Texas Homebrewers Association Each 1st Place scores 3 points Each 2nd Place scores 2 points Each 3rd Place scores 1 point Best of Show scores 2 points Bluebonnet Brewer of the Year (given to the individual brewer who scores the most points in this competition) Steve Vallancourt, Central Florida Homebrewers Bluebonnet Trophy (given to the club scoring the most points in this competition) North Texas Homebrewers Association Gulf Coast Homebrewer of the Year Qualifying points (The Gulf Coast Homebrewer of the Year is the brewer who scores the most points in four competitions during the year - the Bluebonnet Brew-off in Dallas in March, the Crescent City Competition in New Orleans in April, the Sunshine Challenge in Orlando in May, and the Dixie Cup in Houston in October.) 11 points - Steve Vallancourt, CFHB 10 points - Kevin Hardee, NTHBA 8 points - Darrell Simon, NTHBA 7 points - Russ Bee, NTHBA 7 points - Bob Haupert & Ernie Stephens, NTHBA 5 points - Michael Lentz, CSM 5 points - Rob Stenson, CC 4 points - David Lloyd, DFBS 4 points - Mark Shelton, NTHBA 4 points - Dan Gill, CC Key to club abbreviations: BAM - Bay Area Mashtronauts, Pasadena, TX BCB - Bluff City Brewers & Connoisseurs, Memphis, TN CC - Cowtown Cappers, Fort Worth, TX CCH - Crescent City Homebrewers, New Orleans, LA CFHB - Central Florida Homebrewers, Orlando, FL CSM - College Station Malthoppers, College Station, TX DFBS - Denton Fermented Brewers Society, Denton, TX FR - Foam Rangers, Houston, TX MALT - Maine Ale and Lager Tasters NTHBA - North Texas Homebrewers Association, Dallas, TX Scoresheets will be mailed the week of April 10. For club members, all sheets will be sent together to club president or other representative. For independents, sheets will be sent directly to you. Trophies and ribbons will be sent separately. Questions may be addressed to: simon_c at eisner.decus.org - Chris Simon - 1st lady of the North Texas Homebrewers Association and Chief of Stewards at 1995 Bluebonnet Brew-off or d_simon at dfwlug.decus.org - Darrell Simon - President of the North Texas Homebrewers Association and Chief of Judges at 1995 Bluebonnet Brew-off Return to table of contents
Date: 6 Apr 1995 11:27:31 -0800 From: "Harrington, Stephen J" <sharrington at msmail4.hac.com> Subject: Beer Stuff Hello from the land of OJ --- Just a few tidbits I came up with while I was bottling last night ---> ******** Is Sierra Nevada Bigfoot ('95) Barleywine a good example of this style? I bought a sixer and was stunned at the taste of alcohol. I felt like I was doing a 'shot' of beer. ******** In a similar thought, is Red Hook ESB a good example? I really liked it alot. Any recipes out there? Now that I have gone all-grain, I relish the thought that I can make any style of beer. ******** As I was bottling last night, I remembered someone poo-pooing the idea that leaving the caps on the bottles uncrimped for a while in order to put a layer of CO2 in the headspace could not possibly work because the yeast cannot ferment the priming sugar that fast. I think that the layer of CO2 comes from the CO2 coming out of solution as it warms (especially true for lagers). Now I do leave the caps on top uncrimped, but not for this reason, but simply because I fill all the bottles and then crimp them all. Well enough on this. I am probably the only person left who uses bottles instead of kegs anyway. ******** I made my first wheat beer last week and expected the worst during the sparge. It was the easiest sparge I ever had and I got a great extraction. Was I just lucky? ******** Cheers, Stephen Harrington Manhattan Beach, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:00:48 -0400 From: MnMGuy at aol.com Subject: Bananas! I'm not sure on the name or spelling, but I drank last night a Dunkelweiss Weizenbier Dunkel or something like that. It wasn't my first beer, which was an Anchor Liberty. It wasn't my second, that went to an Anchor Porter. It technically wasn't my third, which was a few sips of the Honey Wheat I was mini kegging. So maybe my judgement was a little off. Anyway, halfway through I noticed a quite prominent banana taste that I really enjoyed. I had read a few postings relating to "banana notes" of cetain yeasts but not paid much attention. Is this desirable. Regardless, I enjoyed it and wondered if any of you had any suggestions about trying to duplicate. TIA. Kevin Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 13:02:04 -0600 From: rhanson at nmsu.edu (Robin Hanson) Subject: Bar Hand Towels Kevin McEnhill asked about obtaining hand towels: You can usually get British bar towels from British (and sometimes Irish) stores. If you have one in the area give it a try. The other alternative is to try mail-order from a British (yet again sometimes Irish) store/supplier. From time to time I get a copy of "Brittania" magazine. They are available at good news agents in the US and Canada. The magazine is usually full of all sorts of advertisments for British stuff, including Pub supplies. You will problably only be able to get the big name brewers e.g Watneys, Worthingtons, Courage etc. They can also be pretty expensive, my favourite method of aquisition, however, is to swipe them from a pub when I am back in England. Robin Hanson Rhanson at nmsu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: 06 Apr 1995 12:06:12 PDT From: "Wallinger, W. A." <WAWA at chevron.com> Subject: kegging/malt recipes From: Wallinger, W. A. (Wade) To: OPEN ADDRESSING SERVI-OPENADDR Subject: kegging/malt recipes Date: 1995-04-06 09:56 Priority: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ in hbd1697 jim asks about kegging questions (i'm behind a few days, so bear with me if someone else has already answered - another reason why there may be few posters: in my case i struggle to keep current and fear that my contribution may be too late). the 'kegging chart' you are looking for was developed by burch and is reprinted in papazian's first book (without acknowledgement) and in miller's 'brewing the world's great beers' (with acknowledgement). in general, you need to keep the recommended pressure for the carbonation you desire, whether that is from the co2 bottle or from priming sugar. when you prime the keg probably reached 15+ psi, but the carbonation was 'lost' when the keg was 'let down' to less than 10psi. i keep my kegs at 12 to 15psi at 40 deg f (the temperature component is important). hope this helps. --- jay asks for extract recipes, and offers a compilation. i plan to send him a few of mine (i too am almost too busy to mess with all-grain - although i want to try my hand at it for the experience), and hope others do as well - let's encourage this exchange. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:34:42 -0500 From: rlarsen at squeaky.free.org (Rich Larsen) Subject: Yeast Questions/ In HBD1699 DICKERSONP at aol.com asks a few questions about yeast care: >1) What really is the need to make a starter? My fermentations always take >off within 12 hours and usually finish at or near the appropriate final >gravity. Is it really worth the trouble, with say a Wyeast product? It sounds like your fermentations are proceding normally, however, I gather from your final statement above that you are using dry yeast. Starters are not necessary with dry yeast, but it is recommended that you rehydrate it in some sterile water a minimum of 15 minutes before pitching. Get the yeast woke up before giving them a big breakfast. Yeast will tend to mutate and or burst if pitched dry. As far as Wyeast goes, some people have had good results without making a starter. You will insure, however, a good start, shorter lag time, and decreased risk of infection if you get the yeast going and growing well in advance of pitching. I always recommend a starter for liquid cultures, simply because they usually only contain about one tenth the active yeast that is in a dry pack. See the yeast FAQ for starter instructions. > >2) If I wanted to force them to ferment some more, could I rack to a >secondary and pitch more yeast? Right now, I'm doing an IPA that started at >1.057 and I'm worried that it might finish way too high. Chances are the above wort may not have been aerated enough, and the yeast simply pooped out. Racking to secondary may and some O2 and get the yeast going again. Adding more more dry yeast may help as dry yeast is dehydrated when it was active. I personally haven't had too much luck with restarting a stuck ferment. Again, wort aeration very important for healty yeast. Try using the "venturi" tube. A short piece of racking tube (about 2 inches) with two holes drilled at one end. Attach to the hose with the holes nearest the hose, and siphon into the fermenter. The holes will draw air into the wort as it passes through the tube. > >3) If I do encounter a stuck fermentation with a Wyeast, what would happen if >I re-pitch with dry yeast? Will the flavor profile be proportional to the >amount of fermentation that each yeast was able to accomplish? I suspect the most character you will get will be from the first yeast, unless it didn't ferment much at all. Also it depends on how strong of a characteristic flavor the second yeast has. For instance, if you pitch with a culture of Wyeast American Ale (a notorious clean fermenter) and follow up with a culture of Chimay yeast... well you get the picture. >4) Lastly, I'm really considering trying a secondary. Won't I run the risk >of oxidation when I rack into the secondary? It seems that you'd end up >with a headspace full of O2??? If you rack carefully without major splashing or "fanning" the beer down the side of the carboy you should be allright. Some beer will be exposed to the air initially, but may create a blanket of CO2 just above the surface. If the beer flows smoothly into the secondary without creating a lot of bubbles it will be cool. You can also dip the end of the siphon hose into the beer in the secondary, thus exposing the rest of the beer to the air. Of course for the advanced brewers that have access to CO2 tanks, you can purge the air from the secondary with pure CO2 and then rack. - ----------------- Speaking of yeast, perse' I thought I had the most incredible, attenutive, friendly yeast in the world. What's more, I had cultured it myself from a pack of Wyeast Scotch. This yeast, I thought, took a 1.085 beer down to 1.010 and a 1.042 down to 0.990! AND it still tasted fine. I was very proud. The issue turned out to be the hydrometer. The yeast was behaving normally, but somewhere along the line, my hydrometer slipped. God only knows what the starting gravities of these beers were! So, I ask. Where can I get a REAL hydometer. One that is graduated on the glass, not a little paper slip inside? - ------- BTW my Liberty hop plant started a shoot 4 days ago in the South side of Chicago. ahhhh... Spring... - ------ => Rich <rlarsen at squeaky.free.org> ________________________________________________________________________ Rich Larsen, Midlothian, IL. Also on HomeBrew University (708) 705-7263 Variety is the spice of life. ________________________________________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: 6 Apr 95 16:11:56 EDT From: Curt Woodson <cdwood at lexmark.com> Subject: Atlas Pasta Mill Modifications Well it has been a week since I asked for directions on how to modify an Atlas pasta mill in to a grain mill or pointers on where to find the information in the archives. The responces have just been pouring in...NOT!!! Nothing !! Zippo!! NOTA!! I have had 3 people respond that they would like a copy of the info I receive. Sorry guys I will forward you all the info IF and when I get some or I will let you know what I did and how it worked out. So how about it HBD'ers, where's the beef...er...information on how to do this? Or what about these questions: 1) What is the groove width on a MaltMill(tm)? 2) What is the space width between grooves on a MaltMill? 3) Will knurling the rollers pull the grain thru? 4) Anyone got a extra handle for an Atlas mill, that they are willing to part with? 34 batches and more to brew. Curt Woodson in sunny Kentucky cdwood at lexmark.com Return to table of contents
Date: 6 Apr 95 15:40:00 -0500 From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: starters/yeast/secondaries/Laaglander/DWC Extract/old extract/adding salts/decoction Phillip writes: >1) What really is the need to make a starter? My fermentations always take >off within 12 hours and usually finish at or near the appropriate final >gravity. Is it really worth the trouble, with say a Wyeast product? I find it hard to believe that you are getting active fermentation in 12 hours with Wyeast packages if you are not using a starter. You can have lag times shorter than 12 hours with dry yeast, but not with Wyeast or any of the other liquid yeasts. I assume then that you are asking: "Is using Wyeast and starters worth the trouble over dry yeast?" In my opinion, yes. There are now some very good dry yeasts available (Coopers, Nottingham, Windsor and maybe a few more, IMO) so Wyeast and the other liquid yeasts are not *required* to make good beer. However, the flavour of your beer is very much affected by the yeast that you use. Not better, necessarily, just different. Just as an experiment, split a single 5-gallon wort between two or three fermentors and pitch different yeasts. You'll be amazed. >2) If I wanted to force them to ferment some more, could I rack to a >secondary and pitch more yeast? Right now, I'm doing an IPA that started at >1.057 and I'm worried that it might finish way too high. If the issue is alcohol tolerance, which should not be an issue for a 1057 wort if you aerated well, then yes, pitching more fresh, healthy yeast will help bring down the FG. On the other hand, if there are a lot of unfermentable sugars in your wort, then only pitching a more attenuative yeast will lower the FG. Attenuation, incidentally, is what percentage of the sugars a particular yeast strain will consume: a more attenuative yeast will eat both small and bigger sugars -- a less attenuative yeast will only eat the smaller ones. >3) If I do encounter a stuck fermentation with a Wyeast, what would happen if >I re-pitch with dry yeast? Will the flavor profile be proportional to the >amount of fermentation that each yeast was able to accomplish? That's about right. >4) Lastly, I'm really considering trying a secondary. Won't I run the risk >of oxidation when I rack into the secondary? It seems that you'd end up with >a headspace full of O2??? I'm of the opinion that a secondary is not necessary (but will reduce the amount of yeast you have in the bottles) for an ale, but you need not worry about O2 in your headspace because the agitation of siphoning will release CO2 from the beer and that will purge the O2 out of the headspace. *** Eric writes: >Laaglander (Dutch) dry malt extract has been widely reported >to have a high content of unfermentables, but I would not >expect it to be as low as 48% fermentable. I've read (here) that Laaglander DME was found to be 55% fermentable, so the difference between that and the 48% could be attributed to poor aeration or weak yeast. *** Rob writes: >The owner of the local brewshop said there is a small outfit in >South Carolina?? who is making a full line of malt extracts made >exclusively from DeWolf-Cosyns malt. What I thought was interesting >was this company is apparently bypassing wholesalers and doing >direct sales. Does anyone have information on this development? This sounds a lot like Superbrau, made by Specialty Products International (not the DWC grain, but rather the direct sales to retailers and the location). If so, I would be very suspicious. SPI makes two kinds of extract: mixes and unhopped extract. They CLAIM that the unhopped is 100% barley malt. However, the kits (get this) contain "fresh hop pellets," and corn syrup. Yes, you heard right... hop pellets RIGHT IN THE SYRUP. In the booklet that you get with the Superbrau extracts, (among other completely wacked- out ideas) they claim that you can vary the style of beer you make by changing the boil time (ha!): "For a European-style beer, simply increase the boiling time for the Ingredient Mix. For a Heineken or Becks style beer, give the mix a high boil for 10 minutes... A fifteen minute boil produces a strong British ale, and a 20 to 40 minute boil with the Dark Mix makes a moderate or strong stout. for a richer stout, leave out a gallon of the cold water..." They may be using DWC grain for the extracts, but their lack of brewing knowledge really makes me suspicious of anything they sell. For a more detailed review of the book that I'm referring to, check out the thread I created for "beadle" in http://guraldi.itn.med.umich.edu/Threads/ or, if you cannot access the Web, get copies of HBD 1172, 1175 and 1177 and look for "Specialty Products." (Incidentally, looking through my posts, I noticed a rather important typo: "Chlorine Ions" should be "Chloride Ions.") *** David writes: >over time, but I've heard people bragging more than once that they are using >a can that's been in the garage since 1985 or so. What gives? Yes, you can make something that tastes like beer, especially if it is robust and dark, but you probably won't win any ribbons with it. *** Fredrik writes: >resemble the traditional water for some typical style. The problem is >_when_ to treat the water and _how_much_ water to treat. If you are doing an allgrain batch, I would measure the mash pH and then add the salts till your pH is around 5.3. Note that if you are planning to add Calcium Carbonate and your pH is 5.7, wait till the boil to add the CaCO3. Same is true if you are adding Gypsum and your mash is already down to 5.0. Once the mash is around 5.3, save the rest of the salts you had measured out till the boil. If you are doing extract, then I would just add the salts in the boil. *** Joe writes: > When one buys malt from your friendly neighborhood homebrew store >I presume you are getting fully modified grain. Is there any advantage >to doing a multiple decoction mash on such malt? Does it release other >compounds from the grain? Rumour has it that decoction mashed beers have a maltier flavour. I have not done side-by-side comparisons, but the BOS Scottish Strong Ale at the BOSS competition was a double decoction mashed beer. Not traditional, but a damn good beer. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 15:56:05 -0400 From: hbush at pppl.gov (harry) Subject: Re: Schmidling, Commercialism & getting torqued-up (in ft-lbs or lb-ft)? Sorry, a couple of topics I can't stay out of (now Harry, you know better). 1) The first regards Jack Schmidling and his products. He has been accused of using the HBD for advertisement of his products. I plan to purchase some equipment in the near future, including a grain mill, so I have been noting grain milling discussions on the HBD, some of which have come from Jack himself. Is that SO bad? I think it's great to be able to get info directly from the developer of a product. Of course, his opinions and advice will reflect his personal interest in his products, but jeez, we're all adults here. Lots of folks use public forums to further their own personal gain, and disclaimers notwithstanding, it seems EVERYONE has an axe to grind in one way or another. I've never owned a Schmidling product but immediately recognized his post as that of a manufacturer. He doesn't try to hide it. I have received useful info from his posts and do not see why we can't benefit from them, keeping in mind that he has commercial interest and regarding his opinions with a wary eye. I don't know Jack Schmidling (of course you don't know if I'm lying or not). If I end up buying his mill, I will because I have determined it to represent the best value to me. Jack, keep reading the HBD! I wish more product manufacturers kept as closely in touch with the concerns of their customers. And lets all lighten up. 2) TORQUE! When I was just another gear-head and was torqueing down the head bolts on my car engine, I read the torque on my Snap-On wrench in FOOTPOUNDS. Yes the wrench itself says footpounds. Then I cleaned the grease from under my nails and went to engineering school and they told me that torque is measured in POUND-FEET, work in foot-pounds. Thank God for the commutative law of multiplication because I think it reduces this argument to one of semantics. Torque is indeed calculated by multiplying a force by a distance, and it doesn't matter which comes first. Work is calculated by multplying a distance by a force . Torque and Work are not identical, they just unfortunately share the same units to confuse us! Of course the Metric boys solved this problem in the SI system of units. Torque is expressed in NEWTON-METERS (my torque wrench agrees with the engineering textbooks on this one) and work in JOULES, but dammit, you get the joules by multiplying newtons times meters! Anyway, for the practical-minded, I think its a case of you say potayto, I say potahto, Dan Quail says potatoe. Thatz my dollar three eighty. Harry .............................................. "A man's got to know his limitations" .............................................. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 17:11:04 EDT From: "Wuerstl, Matthew A." <WUERSTL at WMAVM7.VNET.IBM.COM> Subject: CO2 Tank Quick Disconnect? A question for the HB Keggers in the crowd... I have been kegging since Jan. with 3 pinlock kegs (a gift from an old roommate). Today I ordered 3 more ball lock kegs from St. Patrick's. I was wondering if anyone knows of a quick disconnect type connection for use on the tank side of the CO2 line. Something along the lines of an air compressor disconnect but smaller? I've got a tee to split the gas line, but since I use the tank in several locations (house, garage, crawlspace...) I'd prefer to not have to take two different lines with me every where I go. I can of course get out the screw driver and unscrew the hose clamp everytime, but this is a pain and causes unnecessary wear on the gas line. Any ideas or product info would be greatly appreciated! TIA Matt Wuerstl wuerstl at lfs.loral.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:18:38 -0400 From: DONBREW at aol.com Subject: bad beer, use of CURLEYS at carleton.edu sez: >So, my question is one that >I'm sure every homebrewer has to face once in a while: what to do with a >irrepairably bad batch of beer? My current solution to this problem is to pour the stinky beer into saucers placed around the hops plants and my SO's insignificant vegetation :-) so as to trap and kill slugs. brew onward, Don Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:53:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "mike spinelli" <paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil> Subject: weihenstephan liquid yeast and sulphory smells I'm brewin' a batch of hefeweizen using Wyeast #3068 weihenstephan and am getting a real stinky rotten-eggish kinda smell in the primary. Maybe sulphor-like? My local brew shop says it's normal for this strain. I've used the Wyeast wheat blend #3056 and didn't get this noxious smell. Any insights out there? Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 18:26:33 EDT From: Jay Hersh <hersh at x.org> Subject: broadside from you know who i have not been reading hbd of late but the following was brought to my attention..... From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) > Not only did Jay Hersh start a "Jack-Free Forum" but he blatantly and > regularly offered plans, on the HBD, to convert a pasta maker into a grain > mill. Nothing wrong with the idea but his motives and MO were rather > transparent. said forum is commercial free and invitation only, targeted at advanced homebrewers, sory if this annoys you but in America we are still allowed the freedom to choose who we associate with. Subscription requests acceptance is based on several things. Maintaining a manageable size, maintaining discussion of desired quality and maintaning a Private and commercial free discussion. Think of it as the PBS of homebrewing... as for the "pasta maker" the product in question is not now, nor was it ever a "pasta maker" it is a grain mill designed and marketed by Marcato, a company which also makes pasta makers. I personally have no apologies for making information available regarding a comparable product which with some adjustment performs comparably to others on the market for 1/2 the price. That is the nature of capitalism. unfortunately in your narrow conspiracy oriented universe competition comprises character assasination and freedom to associate with those we choose in a manner of our choosing (ie to hold content oriented discussions rather than commercials) a boycott. One need only to read your words some few lines from where you deny yourself a proponent of consipiracies against yourself to see these self same conspiracies proclaimed. While it is quite apparent that your ingenuity in designing and marketing a quality product can not be disputed it is your sore lack of interpersonal skills, your unfounded derision of a well founded knowledge base and the knowledgeable individuasls who advance, and your tiresome howls of conspiracy and victimization which make you most irksome and insure you a place aside Justus Barton von Liebig in the annals of brewing infamy. Jay Hersh - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts Return to table of contents
Date: 07 Apr 1995 00:49:18 GMT From: Greg_O'Brien at ortel.org (Greg O'Brien) Subject: Cleveland Brew Spots? Hi All, I'm visiting Cleveland at the end of April on a business trip, and am wondering if anybody could tell me about noteworthy brewpubs or taverns to check out. Private e-mail preferred. Thanks in advance! Greg Greg_O'Brien at ortel.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:23:24 -0700 From: danpack at grape-ape.che.caltech.edu (Dan Pack) Subject: posting competition results I for one support the posting of results on the HBD. Dion Hollenbeck and others have made the important point that it allows one to see what categories are "hot" and which are not. However, in addition to the names of the winners and the number of entries in a particular category, I think the scores of the winners should be included (they seem to be left out of most). This way not only do you know which categories are hot but you know what kind of competition you're up against. Just one man's opinion..... Dan Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1702, 04/10/95