HOMEBREW Digest #1734 Thu 18 May 1995
Digest #1733
Digest #1735
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
NA Beer (" Dave Silver ")
Pico system report & ??? ("Robert Waddell")
http://www.mindspring.com/~jlock/wwwbeer6.html (Alexandre Eidelman)
Fermenting in Corny Kegs/Geometry (Glenn Raudins)
Yet Another Localized Brew Pub Request (Robert Knowles)
Competition Results (WOLFF)
When to Pitch Starter ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
RE: Yeast Pitching (John DeCarlo )
Re: O2 caps, Mouth Feel Index (Draper Index), Plastic carboys (harry)
Stove clean up (Jeremy Ballard Bergsman)
mesh screen false bottoms/O2 caps/stove cleanup (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Big and Huge results--see JudgeNet (uswlsrap)
Your name here? (uswlsrap)
Aluminum, Stainless, Microwaves - Some of my favorite things (kpnadai)
RE: plastic carboy: using it? ("Troy Howard" )
High FG / Joining Copper ("Palmer.John")
Re: Gelatin ("Patrick E. Humphrey 708-937-3295")
Impaling Alers Claim Homebrew Record! (Richard B. Webb)
Rusty conv. Keg, old water (MrMike656)
Lautering gadgets (Bill Rucker)
Looking for German Homebrewers (Geoff Reeves)
Bells (TomF775202)
Re: High finishing gravitites (HBD#1731) (G. Garnett)
Yeast starters ("Thomas Lajoie")
Re: pasturization (TomF775202)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 12:10:17 EDT
From: " Dave Silver " <dave_silver at aep.e-mail.com>
Subject: NA Beer
In response to John Francis' question about private responses to the NA
Beer thread, below is a note I received from Matt Kelly outlining
procedures for a freeze distillation process that he says works very
well for him. I haven't tried it, yet, but it sounds very promising :-).
Before the note, tho, I've got a quick question for the HBD collective
consciousness. I've been wondering about carbonation. Matt mentions
below that after removing the alcohol, you can either force carbonate or
prime with corn sugar and a bit of yeast. Won't priming with sugar &
yeast cause more alcohol production? In a side communication with Cheryl
Feucht, she said she'd never had a problem with this, but it seems like
there should be some alcohol production. Perhaps the amount of alcohol
is very small. If the alcohol content of the final brew is below 0.5%,
I'd be very happy. :)
Dave
dave_silver at aep.e-mail.com
Here's the note:
- ---------------
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 12:57:24 CDT
From: kelly at els.cray.com (Matt Kelly)
To: dave_silver at aep.e-mail.com
Subject: Brewing NA Beer
Dave,
Saw your post on the Homebrew Digest....
My advice to you is: DO __NOT__ try to make NA beer using any kind of boiling
method. Boiling finished beer REALLY hurts the flavor. I know, I've done it.
It makes OK beer. The other problem is that it is REALLY hard to get all the
alcohol out. The best I have done is to get down to about 1.5%-2% and still
have a decent beer.
THE GOOD NEWS:
The last time I tried to make an NA beer, I found a way which really worked
GREAT. Virtually NO alcohol, great flavor!!
I used the "freeze" method. Here is a step-by-step procedure:
1. Brew the beer. Preferrably, do a 2-stage ferment, although not necessary.
2. When ferment is DONE, rack the beer into several 2-liter plastic pop
bottles. Make sure they are clean! Fill them up so that they have about
3 inches of head space.
3. Cap the bottles tightly, invert them, and put them into the freezer. MAKE
SURE THEY STAY UPSIDE DOWN.
4. Wait a day or 2.
5. Take the bottles out of the freezer. Crack the caps open just a bit, and
place them, upside down, in something that will catch the drippings. The
drippings are alcohol, some hop resins, and some heavy dextrins. This
stuff will be FOAMY, so be prepared. The pressure built up in the bottles
from the freezing process will push the alcohol out.
6. Let them ooze and drop for about an hour.
7. Put the bottles right side up, clean the caps, and re-cap.
8. Put the bottles somewhere, room temp, where they can thaw.
You now have NA beer (unprimed). Either force carbonate, or add a tad bit of
yeast back in, and prime with corn sugar just as in a regular brew.
The freshly thawed beer will separate somewhat; the watery-er part will be
near the top, and the darker part at the bottom.
Note that the de-alcohol-izing process strips out some of the beer's body and
quite a bit of the hop bitterness. You need to compensate for these in the
beer recipe. I'd say increase your hop levels by 50% to 100%.
This makes fantastic NA beer!!! I will be brewing another batch of this in
about a week. Can't wait! In comparison, the freeze method makes FAR
superior NA than the boiling method does. And, there is much less alcohol in
the finished product when the freeze method is used.
Hope this answers your questions!
Take care, and best of luck!!!
==============================================================================
| | I'm kinda tired. I was up all night trying to |
| Matt Kelly | round off infinity. |
| Software Engineer | |
| Cray Research, Inc. | I made instant coffee in a microwave and almost |
| kelly at els.cray.com. | went back in time! |
| | - Steven Wright |
==============================================================================
Dave
AEP Service Corp, WK/FAX: 614-223-2383/2352
dave_silver at aep.e-mail.com
Return to table of contents
Date: 16 May 95 10:06:00 MDT
From: "Robert Waddell" <V024971 at Tape.StorTek.Com>
Subject: Pico system report & ???
Hi, all:
Well, I finally took the plunge and moved up to the Pico System. I elected to
forgo the rocket engine burners and bought three of the Superb(tm) ring type.
Full rolling boil in 15-20 minutes with lots of flame control and very
minimal sooting, and the kegs fit the burners perfectly. I've made three 10
gallon batches with the system so far (wanted to go through the learning
curve before posting any kind of a report). On all three batches I've had
problems with the pumps. On the first batch the pump wouldn't move all of
the water from the first vessel to the mash tun (underletting) and I had to
move about half of it by hand. When it came time to sparge it pumped the
water up over the top just fine. I found later that I had over tightened the
fitting and had cut the washer. The pump on the mash tun worked fine and I
was able to recirculate for the entire mash controlling the temperature just
fine. On the second batch (after replacing washers) the pump transfered all
of the mash water just fine but wouldn't get the sparge water up over the rim
of the mash tun. The copper screens worked just fine on the first two batches
but on the third a lot of hops got through in the boiler and clogged up the
pump several times. I tried to shoot a quick blast from the garden hose
through it and it worked twice but immediatly clogged again so I couldn't
airate with the shower head like I did in the first two so I just let it drain
without power in to the carboys and did "the jig".
Has anyone else out there had similar problems with these "March(tm)" pumps
with the Pico Systems? If so, what resolution did you come up with? I know
that I will probably put a wire screen on the pickup tube in the boiler to
strain out any hops or just start using a bag. But what's up with them being
able to pump a three foot distance one time and not an hour later? When I had
the sparge problem the water would come out fine if I lowered the spray head
so I don't thing it's an airlock.
All three beers have come out beautiful in spite of the pumps and I am still
glad that I bought the system.
I'm looking forward to any help the collecive might be able to profer.
TIA
Robert
V024971 at tape.stortek.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 95 17:09:52 -2400
From: Alexandre Eidelman <Alexandre.Eidelman at inria.fr>
Subject: http://www.mindspring.com/~jlock/wwwbeer6.html
For many years I heve been collecting beer labels from any country.
I have more 60,000 of them, and I am looking for collectors
who wich to exchange such labels with me.
Alexandre.Eidelman at inria.fr
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 09:34:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: raudins at lightscape.com (Glenn Raudins)
Subject: Fermenting in Corny Kegs/Geometry
A recent thread has discussed fermenting in Corny kegs and the geometry of
the fermentation tank. When I originally converted to using a closed system
of Corny kegs for my brewing system, it was stated that one should lay the
keg on its side for the fermentation to provide for the greater surface area.
As I have done both, I believe that it doesn't hurt to lay them down. I have
only done a few that fermented standing up. In fact my house ale, brewed to
similar specs of a brew formerly made by Columbus Brewing called Black Forest
Porter, is quite tasty either way. Anyone know the ratios of the
cylindroconical tanks that have grown quite popular in the MicroBrewery
industry. (I know we have gone through this one in older issues. Time to
search the back issues.)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -
Glenn Raudins Phone: (408) 246-1155 Ext. 113
Lightscape Technologies FAX: (408) 246-0255
raudins at lightscape.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 12:10:11 -0400
From: Robert Knowles <bobk at mv.MV.COM>
Subject: Yet Another Localized Brew Pub Request
Hi,
I'll be in the Glen Falls, NY area for a couple days on June 6, 1995
and would appreciate hearing about local or semi-local brew-pubs,
good beer bars, etc. in the area...
Please reply by private e-mail to:
bobk at mv.mv.com
Thanks
Bob Knowles
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 12:51:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: WOLFF at eclus.bwi.wec.com
Subject: Competition Results
Anybody receive results for:
1. Apr 29 US Open Comp at Charlotte, NC
2. May 7 6th Annual Central Fla Sunshine Challenge, Orlando, Fla
3. May 13 9th Annual Big and Huge, Madison, Wi
If the sponsors of the events have the results would you please post
them on the Digest.
Thanks.
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 95 11:01:00 MST
From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil>
Subject: When to Pitch Starter
James Blue asked how to handle a starter that's past peak opportunity.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Your scenario is common for me...I just pitch the yeast. In fact, I now
routinely pitch after the yeast has started to settle out of suspension. I
can then decant a great deal of spent wort, balancing the amount of yeast
wasted against the amount of unwanted wort decanted. I know the glycogen
reserves are probably on their way to depletion, but the end product has
been very good.
I ask the lab-oriented HBD cognoscenti again: can you devise a simple
procedure to determine *relative* glycogen content? Some method wherein a
yeast sample can be tested with iodine, say, and compared visually with
previous identical tests. No chromatographs, microscopes,
spectrophotometers, particle accelerators, etc., but a kitchen test using
iodophor or tincture of iodine, producing a subjective "GOOD, FAIR, POOR"
rating based on glycogen reserves.
Russ Brodeur wonders about high FGs with dWC malts:
--------------------------------------------------
My only comment re: his Scottish ale, the FG is exactly 'correct' according
to Noonan--about 1/3 of OG. No help here with your actual question.
Ruth Helgeson talks about the "extract brewer complex":
------------------------------------------------------
>..I often see submission to the HBD where people are apologizing for being
>"only an extract brewer"! I see this same phenomenon at our
local...meetings
WARNING: Big Bandwidth Philosophical Soapbox Coming Up...
I hate that. Folks know I've built a big all grain system, I keg, do cask
conditioning, culture my own yeast, etc., etc. So during introductions
these facts come out and I immediately get some kind of aura about me that
induces other brewers to do the "I'm only a simple extract brewer" thing.
It's embarassing--I must quickly clarify that my doing these things does
not make me an expert, and set them at ease with what they've chosen to do
or not do.
Fact is, I started out by brewing 3 all-extract batches, then 2 all-extract
w/grain batches, then went all-grain. I then got back into kitchen brewing
with partial-mash, and went all-grain again when I was able to tune the
process for adequate extraction. I have no problem adding an extract batch
or two to the program every now and then.
The error is to assume skill and expertise come with the materials or tools
used. This is like assuming a person is a skilled cabinetmaker because
he/she uses only custom-made hand tools or fine hardwoods. This error comes
from the fact that most folks start brewing with extract, when skills are at
the lowest level. But it does NOT follow that either a) they go all-grain
when their skills improve, OR b) their skills improve when they go
all-grain. We can achieve great skill and never use grain; we may use grain
and never achieve great skill.
It's also a mistake to assume a brewer has great knowledge and skill by
virtue
of how long they've been brewing or by how many batches they've done. There
is
only a correlation [hopefully] if the brewer continually seeks improvement
and knowledge. No value in wearing our Batch Counts on our sleeves--that's
NOT the metric, man.
Kirk R Fleming / Colorado Springs / flemingk at usa.net
Opinions expressed are mine...and there's plenty more where they came from.
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 95 13:52:33 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: RE: Yeast Pitching
Robert_Ser at ceo.sts-systems.ca wrote:
>During the tour, we were told that they use approximately 22
>POUNDS(!) of Yorkshire stone yeast in every 500 gallon batch. My
>rather loud 'gasp!' drew a smirk from the tour guide who then said
>'Oh, I see we have homebrewers visiting us today!'... [Sigh]...
OK, so that is .22 lbs in 5 gallons, which is 3.52 ounce, which is 100 grams.
So, for you dry yeast packet users, use 14 7 gram packets or 7 14 gram packets
to be optimum! Hmmm.
Now, how do we measure when you have a starter?
In fact, how does Hart's Brewery measure? Is it really dry weight? I hear
from many about a volume measurement, or else the *real scientific* measure of
yeast cells per milliliter of wort.
Anyone have a table comparing dry weight, volume, cells/ml? Within an order
of magnitude?
Thanks, Rob, for the data point.
John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 13:54:34 -0400
From: hbush at pppl.gov (harry)
Subject: Re: O2 caps, Mouth Feel Index (Draper Index), Plastic carboys
1) I actually got a small fact sheet along with the Pure-seal
oyxgen-absorbing caps I bought. I don't have it with me not but from what I
remember it said NOT to boil them, soak them for (15?) minutes in a bleach
solution to sanitize, and sanitize just prior to use because getting them
wet starts the O2 absorbing process. Hope this helps those with questions.
2) Dave Draper has finally broken the ice and given us a data point for
the Mouth Feel Index!!!!!! He puts milk stout at 2.34354233432. Thanks for
your courage, Dave. I now feel obligated to add a few data points of my
own:
Distilled Water MFI= 0.0
Sam Adams Triple Bock MFI= 7.5
Harvey's Bristol Cream MFI= 7.0
The Oil dripping from a good slice of N.Y. pizza MFI= 20.0
Coors Light MFI= -2.5
3) Mark Evans asks about plastic carboys. The word I've always gotten was
that they shouldn't be used as fermentation vessels because of the
plastic's porosity to oxygen. I don't know how to judge the validity of
that statement, but I only use mine for storing brewing water.
Harry
..............................................
"If it bleeds, we can kill it!"- Arnold S.
..............................................
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 10:59:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeremy Ballard Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Stove clean up
Someone (sorry) asked how to clean up spilled, burnt-on wort from a stovetop.
Many people seem to like the elbow grease method and will tell you it's
the only way. Here is my no-work solution: I brush off whatever loose
stuff is on top and spray on a good dose of Easy-off, which I believe is
mostly lye (NaOH) with some foaming agent to keep it in place. I have
tried the new non-caustic Easy-off in the blue can, but it doesn't work
nearly as well. I let this sit for at least an hour, and sponge off.
The black stuff is usually completely solubilized with the exception of
a thin, spotty layer which responds easily to a repeat treatment.
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb
Return to table of contents
Date: 16 May 95 13:23:00 -0500
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: mesh screen false bottoms/O2 caps/stove cleanup
Mike writes:
>Al K. states that using a mesh screen as a false bottom probably won't
>work and if it did it would require gallons and gallons of recirculation to
>form a filter bed. I must disagree with you Al. I use a mesh screen
>(actually it's a SS inverted flour sifter) for my false bottom and it works
>very well. I usually recirculate about a half gallon or at most a gallon for
>_very_ turbid mashes to get clear runoff.
Mike-- please recall what I was replying to: the poster was suggesting using
window screen for the mesh. Consider sifting flour through window screen...
Your flour sifter is a much finer mesh than standard window screen, right?
I use an EasyMasher (tm) (which, incidentally, is made with a screen) and
usually only need to recirculate about 16 to 24 ounces.
***
Chris writes, quoting me:
>>> Your local HB shop owner has it backwards: boiling O2-absorbing caps ruins
>them. The humidity in the headspace of the bottle is enough to activate the
>O2 absorption. <<
>
>if this is the case, it seems to me that their absorption capability would
>decrease the longer they sit around before being used. is this a problem, and
>if so, is there a way to purge the absorbed 02 prior to using?
You're right. The key is not letting them sit around in humid air for any
length of time. I buy the caps by the case (70 gross) and package them
as quickly as I can into 6-mil vapor barrier bags. If at all possible, I
try to buy all the caps I need for the store (a year's worth) during the
winter when the air in the house (and therefore the air in the bags) is dry.
I'm afraid there's no way to reverse the process. The absorption is a chemical
process not mechanical.
***
Jack writes:
>what is the Right Way to get that black, baked-on, carbonized
>sugar off of the stove *without* destroying the finish?
There are many ways, but this is what I do: Spray on some "Fantastic"
or "Formula 409" and let it sit for an hour; then take a single-sided
razor blade and scrape off the crud. Sometimes you need to repeat it
once or twice. If you are really, really worried about the finish, you
can use one of those "non-stick surface safe" plastic scouring pads in
stead of the razor blade.
Al.
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 14:37:01 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: Big and Huge results--see JudgeNet
*** Resending note of 05/16/95 13:11
I was going to post results from the Ninth Annual Big and Huge, despite my
reservations about using the bw, because people seem to _like_ seeing
that sort of thing posted.
But the post bounced, supposedly for being >8k. I sent edited versions,
all of which bounced. Then I transferred the file to take a look at it.
1) The _original_ was 6512 characters, according to the file transfer
utility (VM/CMS IBM3270). Presumably, the edited versions were much shorter.
2) Looking at the file in MSW (um, that's Microsoft Word, not Municipal
Solid Waste...even if the two aren't that much different) revealed that it
did _not_ have the trailing spaces that caused the HBD program to bounce
posts on a couple recent occasions for linelength>80 characters.
I don't know what the problem is, but if you want to read it, see
JudgeNet. If you don't subscribe, check Spencer Thomas' JudgeNet
archives, available by anonymous FTP.
Sorry, but I'm not going to waste my time figuring out why even edited
versions of a file that was never >8k keep bouncing. I don't know if
these file length and line length features are new and need to be debugged,
or if they've been there all along and something has inexplicably changed
at my end, but it's not worth the hassle. Homebrew clubs on our newsletter
exchange will get results in the mail anyway, and entrants will get them
with their score sheets and prizes.
Now go have a beer,
Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace / uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
"People who drink light "beer" don't like the taste of beer;
they just like to pee a lot"
--quote stolen from Capital Brewery, Middleton (Madison), WI
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 15:04:42 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: Your name here?
Since I couldn't post results from the Big and Huge (see preceding post),
here are the names of people who won awards. Expect your scoresheets and
prizes in the mail by the end of next week. Thanks to all who entered!
In alphabetical order: Bob Drousth, Dan Feeney et al, George Fix,
Tom Fuller, Chuck Gollay, Fred Hardy, Robb Harris, Bob Kapusinski,
Chris Kaufman, Al Korzonas, Mark Lovejoy, Donald McCreath, Steve Olson,
Bob Paolino, Dennis Schuh, Randy Thiel, and Spencer Thomas.
Now go have a beer,
Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace / uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
"People who drink light "beer" don't like the taste of beer;
they just like to pee a lot"
--quote stolen from Capital Brewery, Middleton (Madison), WI
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 95 13:25:35 PDT
From: kpnadai at adsnet.com
Subject: Aluminum, Stainless, Microwaves - Some of my favorite things
>From: Steve Robinson <Steve.Robinson at analog.com>
>
>Oh no, the Alzheimer's thread is back. Shall we rehash all the
>old threads while we're at it? Do I hear FOOP, anyone? One
>more time:
>
>Alzheimer's disease is not caused by aluminum (aka aluminium),
>it is caused by CORIANDER.
>
>Steve Robinson
Oh, yeah. I forgot. So is my beer ruined?
>From: kwhitney at ix.netcom.com (Kenneth Whitney)
>Subject: What to do with a SS keg?
>
>I recently acquired a non-Sankey stainless steel keg (15 gal.)
>Is there anything an aspiring all-grainer can make (or have
>made)from this keg? TIA.
Yes. You should recycle it into stainless steel airstones ASAP.
Also, regarding the recent thread on using microwaves to
sanitize:
The microwave oven is an excellent way to sanitize bottles. The
big boys do this, which is why they are called MICRObrewerys.
The problem arises when you turn off the oven. Microwaves
continue to bounce around for a while inside the bottles. With
clear bottles,they dissipate rather quickly. With brown bottles,
however, they continue to bounce around inside. You can't see
them because they are MICROwaves, silly. Which means you need a
MICROscope to see them (duh). Left in the bottle they will
eventually cause overcarbonation and a slight coriander taste.
You must make sure you invert each bottle as the microwaves,
slightly heavier than air, will flow out. A standard bottle tree
is perfectly suited for this, but make sure you wear shoes or you
could burn the tops of your feet.
So now you are thinking, "Is my beer ruined?" Well, relax.
Don't worry. Have a -- ack! choke! help leggo NO0ooo...
- ------------> S/N Ratio Exceeded. Message Terminated <--------
This is not an advertisement. Had this been an advertisement,
you would have been instructed to send your business card to
somebody.
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 95 11:57:51 PDT
From: "Troy Howard" <troy at oculus.jsei.ucla.edu>
Subject: RE: plastic carboy: using it?
mark evans<evanms at lcac1.loras.edu> asks:
>I received a plastic carboy from a friend. It says it was used to hold
>water. Aside from the scratching problem, are these okay for say..secondary
>use?
I have heard people express concerns over the oxygen permeability of the
plastic. If this is true, it would render it unfit as a secondary fermenter,
IMO.
However, I wonder, has this concern ever been authoritatively confirmed by one
of our material science people? Can anyone cite oxygen permeabilty (with refs,
of course) values to back up this claim?
-Troy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Troy Howard | Live fast, die young, and leave a good
troy at oculus.jsei.ucla.edu | looking corpse.
Jules Stein Eye Institue, UCLA |
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Return to table of contents
Date: 16 May 1995 13:07:34 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: High FG / Joining Copper
Russ Brodeur wondered about his High FGs and speculated that it was due to his
Base Malts (DWC vs Schreiers)
I dont think this is the whole story. Looking at his recipes, there is quite a
bit of Special B malt in the first two, Some toasted malt and Carapils in the
next, different batches use different yeasts, etc. There are a lot of variables
at work here.
First, let's look at the base malts. DWC Pale Ale malt is more highly kilned
than Schreier 2 Row Lager. Therefore it will be slightly less fermentable,
about 1-2 ppg or so at the most, but a difference. Hmmm on double checking, it
looks like he was using both Pale Ale and Pils malts by DWC. Anyway...
The five pounds of Special B is a LOT. No wonder there was a high FG there.
There would be tons of complex sugars left over. Then there was the lager yeast
split batch with 2 lbs of Special B. Similar results but entirely different
fermentation environment. Apples and Oranges.
Then the Wheat Batch, again different mash, different environment.
Then the1.010 batch, but this is easily explained by the longer Beta rest and
lack of specialty grains in the recipe (about 6%).
The next batch with the DWC Pale Ale instead of Pils, plus specialtys (20%)
came up high again and we were back to an ale yeast.
I will come to my point by saying that I could make a better case by looking at
yeasts and % lower fermentability specialty grains than trying to draw the line
between between Malting companies. I think your conclusion is overrided by the
differences between your recipes.
**
If you are planning on only joining copper to copper, I would recommend Silver
Soldering with a common propane torch. It works very well. Silver Soldering
Copper onto Stainless (like I did on my system) is difficult. If the joint is
not going to get hot then I would recommend an epoxy or brazing for that
situation. But copper to copper is very easy with silver solder.
John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P
johnj at primenet.com Huntington Beach, California
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy - www.primenet.com/~johnj/
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 15:10:00 -0600 (CST)
From: "Patrick E. Humphrey 708-937-3295" <HUMPHREY.PATRICK at igate.abbott.com>
Subject: Re: Gelatin
In HBD 1731, Bill Fishburn mentioned that he forgot to add the Irish Moss
to his latest brew and then stated:
>I read TNJHB that gelatin can be used at bottling time. I'm wondering if
>anyone has tried gelatin. Papazian indicated that it works better in
>kegs because of the longer settling distance, but I use bottles.
I also forgot to use Irish Moss in my latest Honey-Wheat brew and asked
Bill to forward his responses to me. Most respondents suggested that the
gelatin acts to bring the yeast out of solution and gel at the bottom of
the bottle. If this is true, then will we still get the chill haze from
the suspended proteins which the Irish moss would have taken out?
Also, if the gelatin serves to sediment the yeast, will they have a chance
to carbonate the beer before becoming doomed to death by gelatin?
Thanks,
Pat
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Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 13:38:52 -0700
From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: Impaling Alers Claim Homebrew Record!
Back in January, I was wondering what our club could do for National Homebrew
day, scheduled for May 6, 1995. I hit upon the idea of trying to establish
a record for most beer made by a single homebrew club in a single day. I
broached the subject with the club's Overlord, and he gave the green light.
Due to my own circumstance, I had to drop out of the planning for this
mega-brew-a-thon, but the club was enthusiastic enough to continue with the
plans without my assistance. I have to report that the event was a great
success!
The earliest brewers got to the site at Larry's Brewing Supply at a coffee
demanding 4 am, and fired up the pre-positioned kettles. By the time that
I got down there, the party was in full swing. There were perhaps 15 kettles
of various sizes in varying stages of use. Three of these kettles were
made from converted food grade 55 gallon drums! The next larger kettles
tended to be about 25-35 gallons in size. Then came the converted keg sized
kettles. During my time there, there was even a 3.5 gallon stock pot used by
one member for an extract and dilute brew! It was quite a party... It was
very interesting to see the different equipment types in use by the members.
There were several interesting designs for sparging and wort cooling gadgets,
and a lot of different stand designs. For the newer, less experienced members,
there was a lot of stuff to see, and a lot of stuff to learn.
Some of the local micro-breweries, including Big-Time ales, Pacific Maritime,
the Levenworth Brewery, Pike Place, and others, were kind enough to donate
a rather large quantity of yeast slurry, so having enough starter wasn't a
problem. A 'fridge was set up to hold individual pitching packets of the
slurry for use throughout the day. A water station was set up with a water
filter on one line, and perhaps 5 output lines. The ground got very wet
indeed with one or more of these hoses running more or less constantly for
various reasons. A sanitizing station was set up, with an Idophor solution
made available for cascading from one fermenter to another. Members of the
informed public, as well as members of other clubs came by with their
fermenters, queing up to buy ready to ferment wort. Homebrew flowed freely
(don't tell the Washington State Liquor Control Board, please!) as members
shared high points and low points of their brewing history. A barbeque
grill was fired up in the afternoon for obvious purposes, and a spontaneous
potluck early dinner erupted. At a peak, there were over 40 people in a
mad scramble for kettle space, wort transfer, water hose time, sanitizing
solution, hop bags, yeast starter, and grill space. It was quite a party!
And the record? The Impaling Alers of Kent Washington is proud to claim the
one day homebrewing record of an amazing 781.5 gallons of beer and mead!
The breakdown of this amazing achievement is as follows:
433 gallons of all extract only beer
80 gallons of extract and grain beer
263.5 gallons of all grain beer
5 gallons of mead
About 40 members signed up on an advance list of brewers (although no count
of actual attendees and participants was ever made)
There were 3 50 gallon kettles, each was used twice, for 6 50 gallon batches
The effort consumed the following quantities of supplies:
668 lbs of malt extract and honey
317.5 lbs of 2-row and pale malt
88 lbs of munich and vienna malt
53 lbs of various crystal malts
18 lbs of wheat malt
12.5 lbs of chocolate, roast, and black malt
224.5 oz of hops, both leaf and pellet
7.5 oz of hop extract
116 thai peppers (there were several batches of chili beer made!)
2 lbs of spruce tips
The Impaling Alers now challenge the WORLD to meet and beat our record. It
was a hellofa lotta fun, and we encourage you to try it at your club!
Rich Webb
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Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 17:22:25 -0400
From: MrMike656 at aol.com
Subject: Rusty conv. Keg, old water
Two questions for the collected wisdom:
1) I recently joined the ranks of bigger batch brewers by purchasing an
outdoor (of course..) cooker and converted keg-brewpot. I just had the top
cut off at a local welder. The keg had been sitting around for quite some
time, as the inside had a coating of rust. An hour or two with my favorite
electric drill and a wire wheel should take the rust out, but I am wondering
- does a converted keg-pot require "breaking in"? Especially since I have to
remove so much rust. And I thought stainless steel was not supposed to rust.
Can oxidizing beer (whatever little bit was left in the keg) do that to
stainless?
2) I've had these two 2 1/2 gallon jugs of a popular spring water sitting in
my basement for many months. The wife stopped buying said brand because she
said she tasted plastic, but then she's got very accute senses. Can this
water be safely used for brewing? If a plastic taste is suspected, a pre
boiling would remove this, yes? I'd
mention the brand, but I don't want to get into the "commercial flap...
Post or private e-mail is fine. TIA!
Mike Maimone
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Date: Tue, 16 May 95 17:51:40 EDT
From: brewzer at peanut.mv.com (Bill Rucker)
Subject: Lautering gadgets
A question to those who may have tried to create a gadget to make
their lautering easier or more efficient.
I am designing my all-grain brewing system and am looking for ideas to
incorporate into it. With several mentions about the inadvisability of
disturbing the grain bed and given the fact sparging can take so long
I would like to get some kind of input on sparging devices. I have
seen Phils sparger and am not totally sold on it, also I have, like
some of you, a desire to build my own creation and try to continually
improve on it.
Any form of response is cool, private email or here on the Digest.
Homebrew, beer in its purest form!!!
Bill Rucker
brewzer at peanut.mv.com ruckewg at naesco.com
Life isn't bad, it just sucks once in awhile!!!
BREW ON!
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Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 16:30:05 -0700
From: reeves at lanl.gov (Geoff Reeves)
Subject: Looking for German Homebrewers
I have a friend in Katlenburg-Lindau, Germany who is looking into
homebrewing there. He would like to talk to other German brewers about
legal issues, where to get equipment, where to get supplies, when to drink
beer ;-) etc.
Please send mail to friedel at hydra.mpae.gwdg.de (Reiner Friedel) if you can help
Thanks
Geoff
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Geoff Reeves: NIS-2, Mail Stop D-436, Los Alamos National Laboratory |
| Los Alamos, New Mexico, 87545, USA |
| reeves at lanl.gov (internet) or essdp2::reeves (span) |
| --- __o http://leadbelly.lanl.gov/reeves.html (www) |
| ------ \<, Phone (505) 665-3877 |
|----- ( )/ ( ) Fax (505) 665-4414 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 18:36:37 -0400
From: TomF775202 at aol.com
Subject: Bells
>will Bells beers be available on the East coast?
We are currently working on that. State regulations are different state to
state and it costs money.
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 18:01:55 -0400
From: ggarnett at qrc.com (G. Garnett)
Subject: Re: High finishing gravitites (HBD#1731)
Hey, one I can answer! :-)
I'm an extract (or extract and specialty grain) brewer with about a year's
experience. So far, I haven't had one fail to ferment down pretty well ...
>I've brewed 7 batches of beer so far, all have ended at
>least 1.015 with most of them at 1.020.
1.015 is probably acceptable (at least for some styles, though if it was
supposed to go down to 1.005, then maybe not), but "final" gravities
of 1.030 sound like a serious problem.
>[Story of two failed fermentations deleted to save bandwidth and anguish]
>My feeling is that the ending gravities should be lower, at least closer to
>what the recipe calls for. Any ideas?
Right. Several ideas.
Most extract or extract plus specialty grain brews shouldn't need a yeast
nutrient, unless you're brewing with a high level of adjuncts (sugar, or
rice, corn, or wheat extracts) which doesn't seem to be the case here; so
I'm figuring that yeast nutrition isn't the answer.
Similarly, you're pitching one or two packs of dry yeast, which _should_ be
enough for a healthy ferment, so I'll assume that underpitching isn't the
problem, either. While more yeast probably wouldn't _hurt_, two should
do the trick for sure.
Also, I'm assuming that you've been tasting the hydrometer samples, and
that your tastebuds confirm that the hydrometer isn't lying to you: the
beer remains too sweet after the short fermentation, right?
Let's take a look at your brewing procedure - something, after all, is
killing or at least seriously crippling your yeast.
I assume you're dissolving your DME in a couple of gallons of watter, and
boiling this for somewhere around an hour, right? My brewing water is
all pre-boiled (or I buy bottled filtered water - at less than $1/gallon,
it's cheaper than my time). I chill 3 gallons of it, so that it's cold
when I dilute my boiling wort - this brings the temperature of the wort
down quickly. If I do it right, the end result is somewhere between 70-80F,
preferably on the cool side of that range.
While the concentrated wort is boiling, I prepare my fermentor. I
sanitize using one of the oxygen-based agents (B-Brite or something
similar) and rinse _thouroughly_ with very hot water. Particularly
if you're using bleach for your sanitizing agent, make sure that you
rinse completely - your sanitizing agent could be killing your yeast
if it remains in the fermentor.
Aeration of the cool wort is vital - yeast need oxygen in the beginning
phase of the fermentation. Aeration before the wort is cool isn't a
good idea, because that can cause off-flavors ("HSA" or Hot Side Aeration,
causes "cardboard-like" flavors) in your beer.
I aerate two ways: I aerate the cold water I use to dilute the hot
concentrated wort, by splashing it into the fermentor before I add
the hot wort (I use a plastic fermentor, so thermal stress on the
fermentation vessel isn't a problem - don't try this with a glass
carboy!). I feel that the potential for "HSA" (in _theory_, oxygen
from the cool water could react with the hot wort as it mixes) is
very small, and I've never detected the tell-tale "cardboard" flavor
in my beers.
Also, after pitching the yeast, I vigorously stir (splash) the cool
wort with my (sterilized in boiling wort) ladle. I try not to splash
so hard that it splashes out of the fermentor, but other than that, I'm
pretty vigorous with the thing.
I cool the wort down under 75F before pitching the yeast; perferably
closer to 70F. Pitching the yeast into too-hot wort can hurt or kill
them (particularly if the wort is over 90F).
When using dry yeast, I rehydrate the yeast in a cup of water, boiled
in the microwave and allowed to cool to about 95F. At this point, I
add the yeast, and stir (with the thermometer, because it's been sanitized
by the boiling water). I cover the yeast with plastic wrap, and wait 'till
it's cooled to the same temperature as the wort before I pitch. If you
pitch yeast at 90F into wort at 70F, they don't like the thermal
shock at all.
With this procedure and dry yeast the fermentation takes off in 12 to 24
hours, and continues for a total of about three days of really active
fermentation, during which the gravity drops most of the way to the final
gravity. After that, the gravity usually drops more slowly, and I'm
ready to bottle somewhere between a week and two weeks from brew-day (it's
not a good idea to leave beer in the primary fermentor - particularly a
plastic one - for more than two or three weeks).
I'm guessing that your problem lies in one of these areas: sanitizing agent
residue in the fermentor, aeration of the wort, or thermal shock to the
yeast (though this last one usually won't kill them, it _could_ cause the
yeast to fail to ferment all of the fermentable sugar).
Good luck with your next batch!
Guy Garnett - ggarnett at qrc.com
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hakuna Matata and Have a Homebrew!
Standard disclaimers apply
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Date: Tue, 16 May 95 15:16:37 EST
From: "Thomas Lajoie" <lajoiet at CC.IMS.DISA.MIL>
Subject: Yeast starters
To the collective brewers,
I just read John Keane's reply about under-pitching yeast into
under-aerated wort, and I guess I fit in this same catagory of high FG
brews. It dosn't seem like too much more work, but my first question
is what will more complete fermentation change? (color, taste,
alcohol, etc) If the change is significant enough for me to be
concerned I have a couple of questions. When boiling the DME: how
long? what type of DME? why the hops? <<- do you just make a
mini-batch of the recipe to be pitched in? And when you are ready to
pitch, does the whole mess go into the primary?
Thanx as always,
Tom
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Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 20:08:21 -0400
From: TomF775202 at aol.com
Subject: Re: pasturization
<Commercial beer is generally pasturized.
We do not pasturize our beer. it is conditioned for 12 hours and botled with
a corn sugar prime.
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1734, 05/18/95