HOMEBREW Digest #1734 Thu 18 May 1995

Digest #1733 Digest #1735

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  NA Beer ("  Dave Silver                                                             ")
  Pico system report & ??? ("Robert Waddell")
  http://www.mindspring.com/~jlock/wwwbeer6.html (Alexandre Eidelman)
  Fermenting in Corny Kegs/Geometry (Glenn Raudins)
  Yet Another Localized Brew Pub Request (Robert Knowles)
  Competition Results (WOLFF)
  When to Pitch Starter ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
  RE: Yeast Pitching (John DeCarlo              )
  Re: O2 caps, Mouth Feel Index (Draper Index), Plastic carboys (harry)
  Stove clean up (Jeremy Ballard Bergsman)
  mesh screen false bottoms/O2 caps/stove cleanup (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Big and Huge results--see JudgeNet (uswlsrap)
  Your name here? (uswlsrap)
  Aluminum, Stainless, Microwaves - Some of my favorite things (kpnadai)
  RE: plastic carboy: using it? ("Troy Howard" )
  High FG  / Joining Copper ("Palmer.John")
  Re: Gelatin ("Patrick E. Humphrey 708-937-3295")
  Impaling Alers Claim Homebrew Record! (Richard B. Webb)
  Rusty conv. Keg, old water (MrMike656)
  Lautering gadgets (Bill Rucker)
  Looking for German Homebrewers (Geoff Reeves)
  Bells (TomF775202)
  Re: High finishing gravitites (HBD#1731) (G. Garnett)
  Yeast starters ("Thomas Lajoie")
  Re: pasturization (TomF775202)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 12:10:17 EDT From: " Dave Silver " <dave_silver at aep.e-mail.com> Subject: NA Beer In response to John Francis' question about private responses to the NA Beer thread, below is a note I received from Matt Kelly outlining procedures for a freeze distillation process that he says works very well for him. I haven't tried it, yet, but it sounds very promising :-). Before the note, tho, I've got a quick question for the HBD collective consciousness. I've been wondering about carbonation. Matt mentions below that after removing the alcohol, you can either force carbonate or prime with corn sugar and a bit of yeast. Won't priming with sugar & yeast cause more alcohol production? In a side communication with Cheryl Feucht, she said she'd never had a problem with this, but it seems like there should be some alcohol production. Perhaps the amount of alcohol is very small. If the alcohol content of the final brew is below 0.5%, I'd be very happy. :) Dave dave_silver at aep.e-mail.com Here's the note: - --------------- Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 12:57:24 CDT From: kelly at els.cray.com (Matt Kelly) To: dave_silver at aep.e-mail.com Subject: Brewing NA Beer Dave, Saw your post on the Homebrew Digest.... My advice to you is: DO __NOT__ try to make NA beer using any kind of boiling method. Boiling finished beer REALLY hurts the flavor. I know, I've done it. It makes OK beer. The other problem is that it is REALLY hard to get all the alcohol out. The best I have done is to get down to about 1.5%-2% and still have a decent beer. THE GOOD NEWS: The last time I tried to make an NA beer, I found a way which really worked GREAT. Virtually NO alcohol, great flavor!! I used the "freeze" method. Here is a step-by-step procedure: 1. Brew the beer. Preferrably, do a 2-stage ferment, although not necessary. 2. When ferment is DONE, rack the beer into several 2-liter plastic pop bottles. Make sure they are clean! Fill them up so that they have about 3 inches of head space. 3. Cap the bottles tightly, invert them, and put them into the freezer. MAKE SURE THEY STAY UPSIDE DOWN. 4. Wait a day or 2. 5. Take the bottles out of the freezer. Crack the caps open just a bit, and place them, upside down, in something that will catch the drippings. The drippings are alcohol, some hop resins, and some heavy dextrins. This stuff will be FOAMY, so be prepared. The pressure built up in the bottles from the freezing process will push the alcohol out. 6. Let them ooze and drop for about an hour. 7. Put the bottles right side up, clean the caps, and re-cap. 8. Put the bottles somewhere, room temp, where they can thaw. You now have NA beer (unprimed). Either force carbonate, or add a tad bit of yeast back in, and prime with corn sugar just as in a regular brew. The freshly thawed beer will separate somewhat; the watery-er part will be near the top, and the darker part at the bottom. Note that the de-alcohol-izing process strips out some of the beer's body and quite a bit of the hop bitterness. You need to compensate for these in the beer recipe. I'd say increase your hop levels by 50% to 100%. This makes fantastic NA beer!!! I will be brewing another batch of this in about a week. Can't wait! In comparison, the freeze method makes FAR superior NA than the boiling method does. And, there is much less alcohol in the finished product when the freeze method is used. Hope this answers your questions! Take care, and best of luck!!! ============================================================================== | | I'm kinda tired. I was up all night trying to | | Matt Kelly | round off infinity. | | Software Engineer | | | Cray Research, Inc. | I made instant coffee in a microwave and almost | | kelly at els.cray.com. | went back in time! | | | - Steven Wright | ============================================================================== Dave AEP Service Corp, WK/FAX: 614-223-2383/2352 dave_silver at aep.e-mail.com Return to table of contents
Date: 16 May 95 10:06:00 MDT From: "Robert Waddell" <V024971 at Tape.StorTek.Com> Subject: Pico system report & ??? Hi, all: Well, I finally took the plunge and moved up to the Pico System. I elected to forgo the rocket engine burners and bought three of the Superb(tm) ring type. Full rolling boil in 15-20 minutes with lots of flame control and very minimal sooting, and the kegs fit the burners perfectly. I've made three 10 gallon batches with the system so far (wanted to go through the learning curve before posting any kind of a report). On all three batches I've had problems with the pumps. On the first batch the pump wouldn't move all of the water from the first vessel to the mash tun (underletting) and I had to move about half of it by hand. When it came time to sparge it pumped the water up over the top just fine. I found later that I had over tightened the fitting and had cut the washer. The pump on the mash tun worked fine and I was able to recirculate for the entire mash controlling the temperature just fine. On the second batch (after replacing washers) the pump transfered all of the mash water just fine but wouldn't get the sparge water up over the rim of the mash tun. The copper screens worked just fine on the first two batches but on the third a lot of hops got through in the boiler and clogged up the pump several times. I tried to shoot a quick blast from the garden hose through it and it worked twice but immediatly clogged again so I couldn't airate with the shower head like I did in the first two so I just let it drain without power in to the carboys and did "the jig". Has anyone else out there had similar problems with these "March(tm)" pumps with the Pico Systems? If so, what resolution did you come up with? I know that I will probably put a wire screen on the pickup tube in the boiler to strain out any hops or just start using a bag. But what's up with them being able to pump a three foot distance one time and not an hour later? When I had the sparge problem the water would come out fine if I lowered the spray head so I don't thing it's an airlock. All three beers have come out beautiful in spite of the pumps and I am still glad that I bought the system. I'm looking forward to any help the collecive might be able to profer. TIA Robert V024971 at tape.stortek.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 95 17:09:52 -2400 From: Alexandre Eidelman <Alexandre.Eidelman at inria.fr> Subject: http://www.mindspring.com/~jlock/wwwbeer6.html For many years I heve been collecting beer labels from any country. I have more 60,000 of them, and I am looking for collectors who wich to exchange such labels with me. Alexandre.Eidelman at inria.fr Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 09:34:00 -0700 (PDT) From: raudins at lightscape.com (Glenn Raudins) Subject: Fermenting in Corny Kegs/Geometry A recent thread has discussed fermenting in Corny kegs and the geometry of the fermentation tank. When I originally converted to using a closed system of Corny kegs for my brewing system, it was stated that one should lay the keg on its side for the fermentation to provide for the greater surface area. As I have done both, I believe that it doesn't hurt to lay them down. I have only done a few that fermented standing up. In fact my house ale, brewed to similar specs of a brew formerly made by Columbus Brewing called Black Forest Porter, is quite tasty either way. Anyone know the ratios of the cylindroconical tanks that have grown quite popular in the MicroBrewery industry. (I know we have gone through this one in older issues. Time to search the back issues.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Glenn Raudins Phone: (408) 246-1155 Ext. 113 Lightscape Technologies FAX: (408) 246-0255 raudins at lightscape.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 12:10:11 -0400 From: Robert Knowles <bobk at mv.MV.COM> Subject: Yet Another Localized Brew Pub Request Hi, I'll be in the Glen Falls, NY area for a couple days on June 6, 1995 and would appreciate hearing about local or semi-local brew-pubs, good beer bars, etc. in the area... Please reply by private e-mail to: bobk at mv.mv.com Thanks Bob Knowles Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 12:51:49 -0400 (EDT) From: WOLFF at eclus.bwi.wec.com Subject: Competition Results Anybody receive results for: 1. Apr 29 US Open Comp at Charlotte, NC 2. May 7 6th Annual Central Fla Sunshine Challenge, Orlando, Fla 3. May 13 9th Annual Big and Huge, Madison, Wi If the sponsors of the events have the results would you please post them on the Digest. Thanks. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 95 11:01:00 MST From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil> Subject: When to Pitch Starter James Blue asked how to handle a starter that's past peak opportunity. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Your scenario is common for me...I just pitch the yeast. In fact, I now routinely pitch after the yeast has started to settle out of suspension. I can then decant a great deal of spent wort, balancing the amount of yeast wasted against the amount of unwanted wort decanted. I know the glycogen reserves are probably on their way to depletion, but the end product has been very good. I ask the lab-oriented HBD cognoscenti again: can you devise a simple procedure to determine *relative* glycogen content? Some method wherein a yeast sample can be tested with iodine, say, and compared visually with previous identical tests. No chromatographs, microscopes, spectrophotometers, particle accelerators, etc., but a kitchen test using iodophor or tincture of iodine, producing a subjective "GOOD, FAIR, POOR" rating based on glycogen reserves. Russ Brodeur wonders about high FGs with dWC malts: -------------------------------------------------- My only comment re: his Scottish ale, the FG is exactly 'correct' according to Noonan--about 1/3 of OG. No help here with your actual question. Ruth Helgeson talks about the "extract brewer complex": ------------------------------------------------------ >..I often see submission to the HBD where people are apologizing for being >"only an extract brewer"! I see this same phenomenon at our local...meetings WARNING: Big Bandwidth Philosophical Soapbox Coming Up... I hate that. Folks know I've built a big all grain system, I keg, do cask conditioning, culture my own yeast, etc., etc. So during introductions these facts come out and I immediately get some kind of aura about me that induces other brewers to do the "I'm only a simple extract brewer" thing. It's embarassing--I must quickly clarify that my doing these things does not make me an expert, and set them at ease with what they've chosen to do or not do. Fact is, I started out by brewing 3 all-extract batches, then 2 all-extract w/grain batches, then went all-grain. I then got back into kitchen brewing with partial-mash, and went all-grain again when I was able to tune the process for adequate extraction. I have no problem adding an extract batch or two to the program every now and then. The error is to assume skill and expertise come with the materials or tools used. This is like assuming a person is a skilled cabinetmaker because he/she uses only custom-made hand tools or fine hardwoods. This error comes from the fact that most folks start brewing with extract, when skills are at the lowest level. But it does NOT follow that either a) they go all-grain when their skills improve, OR b) their skills improve when they go all-grain. We can achieve great skill and never use grain; we may use grain and never achieve great skill. It's also a mistake to assume a brewer has great knowledge and skill by virtue of how long they've been brewing or by how many batches they've done. There is only a correlation [hopefully] if the brewer continually seeks improvement and knowledge. No value in wearing our Batch Counts on our sleeves--that's NOT the metric, man. Kirk R Fleming / Colorado Springs / flemingk at usa.net Opinions expressed are mine...and there's plenty more where they came from. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 95 13:52:33 EST From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org> Subject: RE: Yeast Pitching Robert_Ser at ceo.sts-systems.ca wrote: >During the tour, we were told that they use approximately 22 >POUNDS(!) of Yorkshire stone yeast in every 500 gallon batch. My >rather loud 'gasp!' drew a smirk from the tour guide who then said >'Oh, I see we have homebrewers visiting us today!'... [Sigh]... OK, so that is .22 lbs in 5 gallons, which is 3.52 ounce, which is 100 grams. So, for you dry yeast packet users, use 14 7 gram packets or 7 14 gram packets to be optimum! Hmmm. Now, how do we measure when you have a starter? In fact, how does Hart's Brewery measure? Is it really dry weight? I hear from many about a volume measurement, or else the *real scientific* measure of yeast cells per milliliter of wort. Anyone have a table comparing dry weight, volume, cells/ml? Within an order of magnitude? Thanks, Rob, for the data point. John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 13:54:34 -0400 From: hbush at pppl.gov (harry) Subject: Re: O2 caps, Mouth Feel Index (Draper Index), Plastic carboys 1) I actually got a small fact sheet along with the Pure-seal oyxgen-absorbing caps I bought. I don't have it with me not but from what I remember it said NOT to boil them, soak them for (15?) minutes in a bleach solution to sanitize, and sanitize just prior to use because getting them wet starts the O2 absorbing process. Hope this helps those with questions. 2) Dave Draper has finally broken the ice and given us a data point for the Mouth Feel Index!!!!!! He puts milk stout at 2.34354233432. Thanks for your courage, Dave. I now feel obligated to add a few data points of my own: Distilled Water MFI= 0.0 Sam Adams Triple Bock MFI= 7.5 Harvey's Bristol Cream MFI= 7.0 The Oil dripping from a good slice of N.Y. pizza MFI= 20.0 Coors Light MFI= -2.5 3) Mark Evans asks about plastic carboys. The word I've always gotten was that they shouldn't be used as fermentation vessels because of the plastic's porosity to oxygen. I don't know how to judge the validity of that statement, but I only use mine for storing brewing water. Harry .............................................. "If it bleeds, we can kill it!"- Arnold S. .............................................. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 10:59:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeremy Ballard Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU> Subject: Stove clean up Someone (sorry) asked how to clean up spilled, burnt-on wort from a stovetop. Many people seem to like the elbow grease method and will tell you it's the only way. Here is my no-work solution: I brush off whatever loose stuff is on top and spray on a good dose of Easy-off, which I believe is mostly lye (NaOH) with some foaming agent to keep it in place. I have tried the new non-caustic Easy-off in the blue can, but it doesn't work nearly as well. I let this sit for at least an hour, and sponge off. The black stuff is usually completely solubilized with the exception of a thin, spotty layer which responds easily to a repeat treatment. Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb Return to table of contents
Date: 16 May 95 13:23:00 -0500 From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: mesh screen false bottoms/O2 caps/stove cleanup Mike writes: >Al K. states that using a mesh screen as a false bottom probably won't >work and if it did it would require gallons and gallons of recirculation to >form a filter bed. I must disagree with you Al. I use a mesh screen >(actually it's a SS inverted flour sifter) for my false bottom and it works >very well. I usually recirculate about a half gallon or at most a gallon for >_very_ turbid mashes to get clear runoff. Mike-- please recall what I was replying to: the poster was suggesting using window screen for the mesh. Consider sifting flour through window screen... Your flour sifter is a much finer mesh than standard window screen, right? I use an EasyMasher (tm) (which, incidentally, is made with a screen) and usually only need to recirculate about 16 to 24 ounces. *** Chris writes, quoting me: >>> Your local HB shop owner has it backwards: boiling O2-absorbing caps ruins >them. The humidity in the headspace of the bottle is enough to activate the >O2 absorption. << > >if this is the case, it seems to me that their absorption capability would >decrease the longer they sit around before being used. is this a problem, and >if so, is there a way to purge the absorbed 02 prior to using? You're right. The key is not letting them sit around in humid air for any length of time. I buy the caps by the case (70 gross) and package them as quickly as I can into 6-mil vapor barrier bags. If at all possible, I try to buy all the caps I need for the store (a year's worth) during the winter when the air in the house (and therefore the air in the bags) is dry. I'm afraid there's no way to reverse the process. The absorption is a chemical process not mechanical. *** Jack writes: >what is the Right Way to get that black, baked-on, carbonized >sugar off of the stove *without* destroying the finish? There are many ways, but this is what I do: Spray on some "Fantastic" or "Formula 409" and let it sit for an hour; then take a single-sided razor blade and scrape off the crud. Sometimes you need to repeat it once or twice. If you are really, really worried about the finish, you can use one of those "non-stick surface safe" plastic scouring pads in stead of the razor blade. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 14:37:01 EDT From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com Subject: Big and Huge results--see JudgeNet *** Resending note of 05/16/95 13:11 I was going to post results from the Ninth Annual Big and Huge, despite my reservations about using the bw, because people seem to _like_ seeing that sort of thing posted. But the post bounced, supposedly for being >8k. I sent edited versions, all of which bounced. Then I transferred the file to take a look at it. 1) The _original_ was 6512 characters, according to the file transfer utility (VM/CMS IBM3270). Presumably, the edited versions were much shorter. 2) Looking at the file in MSW (um, that's Microsoft Word, not Municipal Solid Waste...even if the two aren't that much different) revealed that it did _not_ have the trailing spaces that caused the HBD program to bounce posts on a couple recent occasions for linelength>80 characters. I don't know what the problem is, but if you want to read it, see JudgeNet. If you don't subscribe, check Spencer Thomas' JudgeNet archives, available by anonymous FTP. Sorry, but I'm not going to waste my time figuring out why even edited versions of a file that was never >8k keep bouncing. I don't know if these file length and line length features are new and need to be debugged, or if they've been there all along and something has inexplicably changed at my end, but it's not worth the hassle. Homebrew clubs on our newsletter exchange will get results in the mail anyway, and entrants will get them with their score sheets and prizes. Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace / uswlsrap at ibmmail.com "People who drink light "beer" don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot" --quote stolen from Capital Brewery, Middleton (Madison), WI Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 15:04:42 EDT From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com Subject: Your name here? Since I couldn't post results from the Big and Huge (see preceding post), here are the names of people who won awards. Expect your scoresheets and prizes in the mail by the end of next week. Thanks to all who entered! In alphabetical order: Bob Drousth, Dan Feeney et al, George Fix, Tom Fuller, Chuck Gollay, Fred Hardy, Robb Harris, Bob Kapusinski, Chris Kaufman, Al Korzonas, Mark Lovejoy, Donald McCreath, Steve Olson, Bob Paolino, Dennis Schuh, Randy Thiel, and Spencer Thomas. Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace / uswlsrap at ibmmail.com "People who drink light "beer" don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot" --quote stolen from Capital Brewery, Middleton (Madison), WI Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 95 13:25:35 PDT From: kpnadai at adsnet.com Subject: Aluminum, Stainless, Microwaves - Some of my favorite things >From: Steve Robinson <Steve.Robinson at analog.com> > >Oh no, the Alzheimer's thread is back. Shall we rehash all the >old threads while we're at it? Do I hear FOOP, anyone? One >more time: > >Alzheimer's disease is not caused by aluminum (aka aluminium), >it is caused by CORIANDER. > >Steve Robinson Oh, yeah. I forgot. So is my beer ruined? >From: kwhitney at ix.netcom.com (Kenneth Whitney) >Subject: What to do with a SS keg? > >I recently acquired a non-Sankey stainless steel keg (15 gal.) >Is there anything an aspiring all-grainer can make (or have >made)from this keg? TIA. Yes. You should recycle it into stainless steel airstones ASAP. Also, regarding the recent thread on using microwaves to sanitize: The microwave oven is an excellent way to sanitize bottles. The big boys do this, which is why they are called MICRObrewerys. The problem arises when you turn off the oven. Microwaves continue to bounce around for a while inside the bottles. With clear bottles,they dissipate rather quickly. With brown bottles, however, they continue to bounce around inside. You can't see them because they are MICROwaves, silly. Which means you need a MICROscope to see them (duh). Left in the bottle they will eventually cause overcarbonation and a slight coriander taste. You must make sure you invert each bottle as the microwaves, slightly heavier than air, will flow out. A standard bottle tree is perfectly suited for this, but make sure you wear shoes or you could burn the tops of your feet. So now you are thinking, "Is my beer ruined?" Well, relax. Don't worry. Have a -- ack! choke! help leggo NO0ooo... - ------------> S/N Ratio Exceeded. Message Terminated <-------- This is not an advertisement. Had this been an advertisement, you would have been instructed to send your business card to somebody. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 95 11:57:51 PDT From: "Troy Howard" <troy at oculus.jsei.ucla.edu> Subject: RE: plastic carboy: using it? mark evans<evanms at lcac1.loras.edu> asks: >I received a plastic carboy from a friend. It says it was used to hold >water. Aside from the scratching problem, are these okay for say..secondary >use? I have heard people express concerns over the oxygen permeability of the plastic. If this is true, it would render it unfit as a secondary fermenter, IMO. However, I wonder, has this concern ever been authoritatively confirmed by one of our material science people? Can anyone cite oxygen permeabilty (with refs, of course) values to back up this claim? -Troy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Troy Howard | Live fast, die young, and leave a good troy at oculus.jsei.ucla.edu | looking corpse. Jules Stein Eye Institue, UCLA | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Return to table of contents
Date: 16 May 1995 13:07:34 U From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com> Subject: High FG / Joining Copper Russ Brodeur wondered about his High FGs and speculated that it was due to his Base Malts (DWC vs Schreiers) I dont think this is the whole story. Looking at his recipes, there is quite a bit of Special B malt in the first two, Some toasted malt and Carapils in the next, different batches use different yeasts, etc. There are a lot of variables at work here. First, let's look at the base malts. DWC Pale Ale malt is more highly kilned than Schreier 2 Row Lager. Therefore it will be slightly less fermentable, about 1-2 ppg or so at the most, but a difference. Hmmm on double checking, it looks like he was using both Pale Ale and Pils malts by DWC. Anyway... The five pounds of Special B is a LOT. No wonder there was a high FG there. There would be tons of complex sugars left over. Then there was the lager yeast split batch with 2 lbs of Special B. Similar results but entirely different fermentation environment. Apples and Oranges. Then the Wheat Batch, again different mash, different environment. Then the1.010 batch, but this is easily explained by the longer Beta rest and lack of specialty grains in the recipe (about 6%). The next batch with the DWC Pale Ale instead of Pils, plus specialtys (20%) came up high again and we were back to an ale yeast. I will come to my point by saying that I could make a better case by looking at yeasts and % lower fermentability specialty grains than trying to draw the line between between Malting companies. I think your conclusion is overrided by the differences between your recipes. ** If you are planning on only joining copper to copper, I would recommend Silver Soldering with a common propane torch. It works very well. Silver Soldering Copper onto Stainless (like I did on my system) is difficult. If the joint is not going to get hot then I would recommend an epoxy or brazing for that situation. But copper to copper is very easy with silver solder. John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P johnj at primenet.com Huntington Beach, California Palmer House Brewery and Smithy - www.primenet.com/~johnj/ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 15:10:00 -0600 (CST) From: "Patrick E. Humphrey 708-937-3295" <HUMPHREY.PATRICK at igate.abbott.com> Subject: Re: Gelatin In HBD 1731, Bill Fishburn mentioned that he forgot to add the Irish Moss to his latest brew and then stated: >I read TNJHB that gelatin can be used at bottling time. I'm wondering if >anyone has tried gelatin. Papazian indicated that it works better in >kegs because of the longer settling distance, but I use bottles. I also forgot to use Irish Moss in my latest Honey-Wheat brew and asked Bill to forward his responses to me. Most respondents suggested that the gelatin acts to bring the yeast out of solution and gel at the bottom of the bottle. If this is true, then will we still get the chill haze from the suspended proteins which the Irish moss would have taken out? Also, if the gelatin serves to sediment the yeast, will they have a chance to carbonate the beer before becoming doomed to death by gelatin? Thanks, Pat Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 13:38:52 -0700 From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com> Subject: Impaling Alers Claim Homebrew Record! Back in January, I was wondering what our club could do for National Homebrew day, scheduled for May 6, 1995. I hit upon the idea of trying to establish a record for most beer made by a single homebrew club in a single day. I broached the subject with the club's Overlord, and he gave the green light. Due to my own circumstance, I had to drop out of the planning for this mega-brew-a-thon, but the club was enthusiastic enough to continue with the plans without my assistance. I have to report that the event was a great success! The earliest brewers got to the site at Larry's Brewing Supply at a coffee demanding 4 am, and fired up the pre-positioned kettles. By the time that I got down there, the party was in full swing. There were perhaps 15 kettles of various sizes in varying stages of use. Three of these kettles were made from converted food grade 55 gallon drums! The next larger kettles tended to be about 25-35 gallons in size. Then came the converted keg sized kettles. During my time there, there was even a 3.5 gallon stock pot used by one member for an extract and dilute brew! It was quite a party... It was very interesting to see the different equipment types in use by the members. There were several interesting designs for sparging and wort cooling gadgets, and a lot of different stand designs. For the newer, less experienced members, there was a lot of stuff to see, and a lot of stuff to learn. Some of the local micro-breweries, including Big-Time ales, Pacific Maritime, the Levenworth Brewery, Pike Place, and others, were kind enough to donate a rather large quantity of yeast slurry, so having enough starter wasn't a problem. A 'fridge was set up to hold individual pitching packets of the slurry for use throughout the day. A water station was set up with a water filter on one line, and perhaps 5 output lines. The ground got very wet indeed with one or more of these hoses running more or less constantly for various reasons. A sanitizing station was set up, with an Idophor solution made available for cascading from one fermenter to another. Members of the informed public, as well as members of other clubs came by with their fermenters, queing up to buy ready to ferment wort. Homebrew flowed freely (don't tell the Washington State Liquor Control Board, please!) as members shared high points and low points of their brewing history. A barbeque grill was fired up in the afternoon for obvious purposes, and a spontaneous potluck early dinner erupted. At a peak, there were over 40 people in a mad scramble for kettle space, wort transfer, water hose time, sanitizing solution, hop bags, yeast starter, and grill space. It was quite a party! And the record? The Impaling Alers of Kent Washington is proud to claim the one day homebrewing record of an amazing 781.5 gallons of beer and mead! The breakdown of this amazing achievement is as follows: 433 gallons of all extract only beer 80 gallons of extract and grain beer 263.5 gallons of all grain beer 5 gallons of mead About 40 members signed up on an advance list of brewers (although no count of actual attendees and participants was ever made) There were 3 50 gallon kettles, each was used twice, for 6 50 gallon batches The effort consumed the following quantities of supplies: 668 lbs of malt extract and honey 317.5 lbs of 2-row and pale malt 88 lbs of munich and vienna malt 53 lbs of various crystal malts 18 lbs of wheat malt 12.5 lbs of chocolate, roast, and black malt 224.5 oz of hops, both leaf and pellet 7.5 oz of hop extract 116 thai peppers (there were several batches of chili beer made!) 2 lbs of spruce tips The Impaling Alers now challenge the WORLD to meet and beat our record. It was a hellofa lotta fun, and we encourage you to try it at your club! Rich Webb Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 17:22:25 -0400 From: MrMike656 at aol.com Subject: Rusty conv. Keg, old water Two questions for the collected wisdom: 1) I recently joined the ranks of bigger batch brewers by purchasing an outdoor (of course..) cooker and converted keg-brewpot. I just had the top cut off at a local welder. The keg had been sitting around for quite some time, as the inside had a coating of rust. An hour or two with my favorite electric drill and a wire wheel should take the rust out, but I am wondering - does a converted keg-pot require "breaking in"? Especially since I have to remove so much rust. And I thought stainless steel was not supposed to rust. Can oxidizing beer (whatever little bit was left in the keg) do that to stainless? 2) I've had these two 2 1/2 gallon jugs of a popular spring water sitting in my basement for many months. The wife stopped buying said brand because she said she tasted plastic, but then she's got very accute senses. Can this water be safely used for brewing? If a plastic taste is suspected, a pre boiling would remove this, yes? I'd mention the brand, but I don't want to get into the "commercial flap... Post or private e-mail is fine. TIA! Mike Maimone Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 95 17:51:40 EDT From: brewzer at peanut.mv.com (Bill Rucker) Subject: Lautering gadgets A question to those who may have tried to create a gadget to make their lautering easier or more efficient. I am designing my all-grain brewing system and am looking for ideas to incorporate into it. With several mentions about the inadvisability of disturbing the grain bed and given the fact sparging can take so long I would like to get some kind of input on sparging devices. I have seen Phils sparger and am not totally sold on it, also I have, like some of you, a desire to build my own creation and try to continually improve on it. Any form of response is cool, private email or here on the Digest. Homebrew, beer in its purest form!!! Bill Rucker brewzer at peanut.mv.com ruckewg at naesco.com Life isn't bad, it just sucks once in awhile!!! BREW ON! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 16:30:05 -0700 From: reeves at lanl.gov (Geoff Reeves) Subject: Looking for German Homebrewers I have a friend in Katlenburg-Lindau, Germany who is looking into homebrewing there. He would like to talk to other German brewers about legal issues, where to get equipment, where to get supplies, when to drink beer ;-) etc. Please send mail to friedel at hydra.mpae.gwdg.de (Reiner Friedel) if you can help Thanks Geoff +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Geoff Reeves: NIS-2, Mail Stop D-436, Los Alamos National Laboratory | | Los Alamos, New Mexico, 87545, USA | | reeves at lanl.gov (internet) or essdp2::reeves (span) | | --- __o http://leadbelly.lanl.gov/reeves.html (www) | | ------ \<, Phone (505) 665-3877 | |----- ( )/ ( ) Fax (505) 665-4414 | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 18:36:37 -0400 From: TomF775202 at aol.com Subject: Bells >will Bells beers be available on the East coast? We are currently working on that. State regulations are different state to state and it costs money. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 18:01:55 -0400 From: ggarnett at qrc.com (G. Garnett) Subject: Re: High finishing gravitites (HBD#1731) Hey, one I can answer! :-) I'm an extract (or extract and specialty grain) brewer with about a year's experience. So far, I haven't had one fail to ferment down pretty well ... >I've brewed 7 batches of beer so far, all have ended at >least 1.015 with most of them at 1.020. 1.015 is probably acceptable (at least for some styles, though if it was supposed to go down to 1.005, then maybe not), but "final" gravities of 1.030 sound like a serious problem. >[Story of two failed fermentations deleted to save bandwidth and anguish] >My feeling is that the ending gravities should be lower, at least closer to >what the recipe calls for. Any ideas? Right. Several ideas. Most extract or extract plus specialty grain brews shouldn't need a yeast nutrient, unless you're brewing with a high level of adjuncts (sugar, or rice, corn, or wheat extracts) which doesn't seem to be the case here; so I'm figuring that yeast nutrition isn't the answer. Similarly, you're pitching one or two packs of dry yeast, which _should_ be enough for a healthy ferment, so I'll assume that underpitching isn't the problem, either. While more yeast probably wouldn't _hurt_, two should do the trick for sure. Also, I'm assuming that you've been tasting the hydrometer samples, and that your tastebuds confirm that the hydrometer isn't lying to you: the beer remains too sweet after the short fermentation, right? Let's take a look at your brewing procedure - something, after all, is killing or at least seriously crippling your yeast. I assume you're dissolving your DME in a couple of gallons of watter, and boiling this for somewhere around an hour, right? My brewing water is all pre-boiled (or I buy bottled filtered water - at less than $1/gallon, it's cheaper than my time). I chill 3 gallons of it, so that it's cold when I dilute my boiling wort - this brings the temperature of the wort down quickly. If I do it right, the end result is somewhere between 70-80F, preferably on the cool side of that range. While the concentrated wort is boiling, I prepare my fermentor. I sanitize using one of the oxygen-based agents (B-Brite or something similar) and rinse _thouroughly_ with very hot water. Particularly if you're using bleach for your sanitizing agent, make sure that you rinse completely - your sanitizing agent could be killing your yeast if it remains in the fermentor. Aeration of the cool wort is vital - yeast need oxygen in the beginning phase of the fermentation. Aeration before the wort is cool isn't a good idea, because that can cause off-flavors ("HSA" or Hot Side Aeration, causes "cardboard-like" flavors) in your beer. I aerate two ways: I aerate the cold water I use to dilute the hot concentrated wort, by splashing it into the fermentor before I add the hot wort (I use a plastic fermentor, so thermal stress on the fermentation vessel isn't a problem - don't try this with a glass carboy!). I feel that the potential for "HSA" (in _theory_, oxygen from the cool water could react with the hot wort as it mixes) is very small, and I've never detected the tell-tale "cardboard" flavor in my beers. Also, after pitching the yeast, I vigorously stir (splash) the cool wort with my (sterilized in boiling wort) ladle. I try not to splash so hard that it splashes out of the fermentor, but other than that, I'm pretty vigorous with the thing. I cool the wort down under 75F before pitching the yeast; perferably closer to 70F. Pitching the yeast into too-hot wort can hurt or kill them (particularly if the wort is over 90F). When using dry yeast, I rehydrate the yeast in a cup of water, boiled in the microwave and allowed to cool to about 95F. At this point, I add the yeast, and stir (with the thermometer, because it's been sanitized by the boiling water). I cover the yeast with plastic wrap, and wait 'till it's cooled to the same temperature as the wort before I pitch. If you pitch yeast at 90F into wort at 70F, they don't like the thermal shock at all. With this procedure and dry yeast the fermentation takes off in 12 to 24 hours, and continues for a total of about three days of really active fermentation, during which the gravity drops most of the way to the final gravity. After that, the gravity usually drops more slowly, and I'm ready to bottle somewhere between a week and two weeks from brew-day (it's not a good idea to leave beer in the primary fermentor - particularly a plastic one - for more than two or three weeks). I'm guessing that your problem lies in one of these areas: sanitizing agent residue in the fermentor, aeration of the wort, or thermal shock to the yeast (though this last one usually won't kill them, it _could_ cause the yeast to fail to ferment all of the fermentable sugar). Good luck with your next batch! Guy Garnett - ggarnett at qrc.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hakuna Matata and Have a Homebrew! Standard disclaimers apply Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 95 15:16:37 EST From: "Thomas Lajoie" <lajoiet at CC.IMS.DISA.MIL> Subject: Yeast starters To the collective brewers, I just read John Keane's reply about under-pitching yeast into under-aerated wort, and I guess I fit in this same catagory of high FG brews. It dosn't seem like too much more work, but my first question is what will more complete fermentation change? (color, taste, alcohol, etc) If the change is significant enough for me to be concerned I have a couple of questions. When boiling the DME: how long? what type of DME? why the hops? <<- do you just make a mini-batch of the recipe to be pitched in? And when you are ready to pitch, does the whole mess go into the primary? Thanx as always, Tom Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 20:08:21 -0400 From: TomF775202 at aol.com Subject: Re: pasturization <Commercial beer is generally pasturized. We do not pasturize our beer. it is conditioned for 12 hours and botled with a corn sugar prime. Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1734, 05/18/95