FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Re: iodine (Jeff Renner)
  Iodine and alcohol (Pierre Jelenc)
  Pumpkin Ale ("Thomas Aylesworth")
  Long Lager Lags (Mark Thompson)
  N2o (kit.anderson)
  Beer Glasses & Memorabilia (Michael K. Cinibulk)
  kids/pumpkin/yeast (uswlsrap)
  SS Keg and welding ("Reynolds, Jeffrey S.")
  How do the big boys carbonate? ("P. Michael Virga")
  2 standard drinks a day (Eric Rouse)
  Maltose rests/Saazer hops (Jim Busch)
  RE>Stuck Fermentation (KevCallahan)



!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!! October 3 thru October 13: The digest
!!! will be unmanned! Please be patient if
!!! you make any requests during this time
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

******************************************************************
* POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
* 
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.
******************************************************************
 
#################################################################
#
# YET ANOTHER NEW FEDERAL REGULATION: if you are UNSUBSCRIBING from the
# digest, please make sure you send your request to the same service
# provider that you sent your subscription request!!! I am now receiving
# many unsubscribe requests that do not match any address on my mailing
# list, and effective immediately I will be silently deleting such
# requests.
#
#################################################################
NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS hpfcmgw!

Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org
ARCHIVES:
  An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer
  related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at
  ftp.stanford.edu.  Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full
  e-mail address as the password, look under the directory
  /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory.  AFS users can find it under
  /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer.  If you do not have
  ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail
  service at gatekeeper.dec.com.  For information about this service,
  send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with the word
  "help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 6 Oct 95 09:12:24 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: iodine

Mike M : M.Marshburn/D202 at cgsmtp.uscg.mil asks:

>    Question about idoine: I live in a rural area with a
>   lot of dairies. The local hardware store has an iodine
>   solution for wounds that is 7% iodine, 5%(iodine
>   something) and 88% alcohol. Can I use this mixture to
>   sanitize my kegs and associated hardware as long as I
>   rinse well with hot water. If so how would I determine
>   what the ratio would be if I'm shooting for 12-14PPM. I
>   used a heavy bleach solution for the first two, which I
>   understand is not recommended for SS, with only a 10 min
>   contact time and lots of hot water rinse.

I don't actually know about your product, but you want iodofor, not
actual iodine.  It requires no rinsing.  If you are in a dairy area,
then you should be able to get bulk milk tank sanitizer, which is a
detergent and iodofor no rinse sanitizer.  The brand I bought doesn't
actually have the word "iodofor" on the label; it contains 18.05%
"a-(P-Nonyphenyl)-omega-hydroxypoly(oxyethylene)-iodine complex
(providing 1.75% titratable iodine),"  16% phosphoric acid, and 65.95%
inert ingredients, which includes detergents.

According to the label, it is "accepted for use on food processing
equipment and utensils without rinsing when used as directed in
accordance with Federal Regulation No. 121.2547,"  (although I often do
rinse just because I'm leery about even that small amount of iodine and
detergent in my beer).  "As directed" is one ounce in 5 gallons for 25
ppm titratable iodine.  It has directions for other dilutions for other
uses.  I paid about ten dollars for a gallon.  Don't get udder wash
(cheaper and right next to tank sanitizer on the shelf), which has been
recommended here - it contains lanolin.  But you can use bleach.  I did
for years and still often do.  Just not too strong or too long.  Check
out the recent article in Zymurgy by John Palmer on sanitizing.

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 6 Oct 95 10:02:35 EDT
From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu>
Subject: Iodine and alcohol


In Homebrew Digest #1850 M.Marshburn/D202 at cgsmtp.uscg.mil asks:

>      I just got started kegging (two in the fridge). Question about idoine: I
> live in a rural area with a lot of dairies. The local hardware store has an
> iodine solution for wounds that is 7% iodine, 5%(iodine something) and 88%
> alcohol. Can I use this mixture to sanitize my kegs and associated hardware
> as long as I rinse well with hot water. 

This is tincture of iodine, the stuff that iodophors have replaced. 
Tincture of iodine is not recommended for several reasons: First, the
iodine is not held tightly in solution and evaporates readily. Second, it
stains strongly anything it touches. Third, the high "free iodine"
concentration in the stock solution is highly irritating and can cause
dermatitis or allergic autoimmune reactions. 

Get an iodophor (chose one designed for cleaning equipment, not udders)
instead. And do not rinse. 

Then Ken Willing <kwilling at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au> announces:

> If you had "up to 2" standard drinks a day ("one standard drink" = approx.
> 10 ounces of beer, or the alcohol equivalent in wine or spirits), you were
> 10% more likely to be alive at the end of the period than if you had none.
> 
> If you had "2 to 3" standard drinks a day, you were 30% more likely to be
> alive at the end of the period than if you had none.
> 
> If you had "3 or more" standard drinks a day, you were 60% more likely to
> be alive at the end of the period than if you had none.

As such this information says nothing about the effect of alcohol on
mortality. A correlation is merely that, not a demonstration of cause and
effect. These results are very likely saying that happy, well adjusted
people are more likely to drink and to live longer than morose <sacred
book of choice>-thumping curmudgeons. Not an earth-shattering revelation. 

Pierre

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 10:22:31 -0500
From: "Thomas Aylesworth" <t_aylesworth at lfs.loral.com>
Subject: Pumpkin Ale

Craig Agnor asks:

>A friend of mine was recently raving about the Pumpkin Ale at Capitol City
>Brewing in DC and I said to myself...."self, I should brew a pumpkin ale for
>the holidays."  Unfortunately I quickly realized that I didn't know how to brew
>such a beer.  Can anyone help me out here?

Well, I'm afraid I can't help you out with making a pumpkin ale, but
I can tell you some things about Capitol City's Pumpkin Ale.  It's
actually brewed by Old Dominion (Capitol City goes to OD for a few
of their beers) and, get this, contains NO pumpkin.  At least, that's
what one of the Old Dominion brewers told me at the recent Mid-Atlantic
Beer And Food Festival.  It's just a spiced ale, and the spice is
pumpkin pie spice.  The main flavor that comes through is cinnamon.

- --
Thomas H. Aylesworth                 Loral Federal Systems - Manassas
hyworth at mnsinc.com                         t_aylesworth at lfs.loral.com
http://www.mnsinc.com/hyworth/tom

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 6 Oct 95 7:33:41 PDT
From: Mark Thompson <markt at hpdocp3.cup.hp.com>
Subject: Long Lager Lags

I have been working on my lager brewing for the past  9
months (10 batches or so), and still can't get over the 
long lags that i experience.  It typically takes about
two to four days to see very active uptake.  Right now 
i am doing an experiment to see of conditioning the starter
to lower temps will help.  I purchased a wyeast 2007 pack
on tuesday and punched it at the store.  By that evening
the pack was very fat.  I took 500ml of the wort that 
i had boiled for a batch of ale cooled it an pitched the
packet.  I put a fermentation lock on it and stored it in
the frig at 48F degrees.  By the next morning very little
activity could be seen, although a little bit of gas was in
solution.  Only after 48 hours could I see
any foam, and not a high krausen even after 3 days.  
What i'm wondering is if others experience these sort of
results with lager yeast cultures?  The starter wort was well 
oxygenated and a SG of about 1035.  

Mark

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 10:34:41 -0500
From: kit.anderson at acornbbs.com
Subject: N2o


                              

As a dentist, I have access to nitrous oxide. And being a brewer with 
an experimental bent, I would like to try force carbonating with 
laughing gas. Is this possible? Would decreased solubility require 
higher pressure? Would the beer lose its carbonation quickly? 

I figure it would be a hit if there are any more Grateful Dead shows.

Kit Anderson
Bath, Maine
<kit.anderson at acornbbs.com>
*

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 6 Oct 95 10:55:49 -0400
From: Michael K. Cinibulk <cinibumk at ml.wpafb.af.mil>
Subject: Beer Glasses & Memorabilia


I'm looking for mail-order companies that specialize in beer glasses (with 
brewery/brand logos and such, especially German and British) and other 
beer-related items.  Anyone know of any catalogs out there?

Mike Cinibulk...........cinibumk at ml.wpafb.af.mil
Bellbrook, Ohio

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 13:10:05 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: kids/pumpkin/yeast


Spencer Thomas writes about brewing and kids (that's "kids," not "kits"):

> Perhaps the law has changed since I was a kid, but when I was growing
> up (New York state), it was ok for parents to give alcoholic beverages
> to their kids at home.

I, too, grew up in New York State.  It was also okay in restaurants in
New York/New England as long as the parents ordered it.  At some point
during my childhood I had this bizarre taste for Creme de Menthe parfaits
for dessert when we ate out.  (Kids can have some strange tastes, eh?)
Some places used syrup and others used the real thing, and on at least
a couple occasions I remember the server asking my parents for the OK--
the restaurant did _not_ say, 'no, we can't serve it to a minor' (at that
time, the age of majority and the drinking age were both 18).

In many states it is legal for minors (and adults aged 18-20) to consume
beverages in the presence of their parents.  In Wisconsin, the law
requires that an "underage" person be accompanied by a parent, guardian,
or spouse of legal drinking age to possess or consume.  (In some states,
it's quite possible that it may be confined to home consumption, though.)

I think it's perfectly healthy for parents to supervise the drinking
habits of their offspring rather than to treat beverages as verboten,
and parents should set a good example with their own consumption as well.
My parents were quite comfortable with my drinking with their knowledge
(whether they were present or not) because they knew that they had
raised me to be responsible about it.  They preferred to know about
such things rather than to have me think I had to sneak around about it.
When I went to university, I lived in a freshman dorm the first year,
and it was evident which people had grown up with alcohol and which ones
had been "forbidden"--the ones having their first taste of freedom were
the ones getting drunk and stupid (and sick).  Let kids learn responsible
habits when parents have a chance to influence their young and impressionable
minds.
- -----
Craig Agnor (agnorcb at muohio.edu) asks about pumpkin ale:

>Can a pumpkin beer be made with extracts and pumpkin pie filling or is it
>necessary to mash bits of pumpkin with the grain?

Yes :-).  It's your choice.  I'd hate to think about the sparge with mashing
the pumpkin, though.  YMMV.  I've used canned 100% pumpkin late in the boil
and had a BOS with it.  Even then, it's a big pain.  You lose a lot of volume
when racking.  Some people put the canned pumpkin in the secondary; I haven't
tried it, and I'm not sure of the reason for it.  Pumpkin doesn't have a lot
of _flavour_ by itself.

>How should the pumpkin be prepared prior to mashing?

I think I've seen something in ZYMURGY in the last couple years.
Maybe it was that "special ingregients" issue???  If you use canned pumpkin,
I'm not sure you need to mash--wouldn't the cooking of the pumpkin in
processing for canning take care of conversion, at least if pumpkin contains
the enzymes?  <<<DISCLAIMER: No special expertise claimed here>>>  Even if it






doesn't, I'm not relying on the pumpkin for fermentables.  For me, the main
contribution of the pumpkin is for mouthfeel and colour, and _maybe_ a little
sweetness.  (On the question of sweetness, I've heard two views on hopping:
lower hopping levels so the sweetness comes through v.  and a little extra
hopping to compensate for the extra sweetness.  Clearly, you don't want
60IBUs, but you shouldn't be _too_ timid, either.  Do it to your own tastes,
such that you don't overwhelm the spices you'll no doubt be using.  BALANCE!)

I know that some homebrewers (probably some commercial craft brewers, too)
who are just looking for that "pumpkin pie" taste will just skip the
pumpkin altogether and just make a spiced beer. It's not as good as the
real thing, IMHO, but it sure is easier.
- -----
Derrick Pohl  (pohl at unixg.ubc.ca) asks about reusing yeast:

> For reusing yeast, all I do is pour the sediment from the previous
> batch  into a sanitised jar, then stick it into the fridge for up to 2
> weeks.  Come pitching time, I just dump it into the next brew as is (I let
> it come to room temp. first).  I've only done this a few times, and haven't
> noticed any obvious problems.  Is this a *bad* technique in the opinion of

I don't do anything terribly exotic with mine either, and I keep it a lot
longer than two weeks in the 'fridge.  I've had yeasts that are still good
several months later.  I do, however, make a starter before pitching and
recommend that you do the same.  A starter gives you a chance to be sure
that the yeast is still healthy.  I'd rather waste a half-litre of wort
than 19 litres.  You don't need to do the same advance planning that you
need for starting from a YeastLab<tm> vial or Wyeast<tm> pack (12-24 hours
should be plenty of time.)  You've got a pretty decent volume of yeast
already, so it starts pretty quickly.

Yeastmaster Dan McConnell should be able to give you the techinical
details :-); I'm just saying what I do and why.
(And, Dan, feel free to critique my technique....)

> Also, which is better for such repitching:  the sediment from the primary
> or the secondary?

I've used both successfully.  The hbd-wisdom on this has been that the
yeast from the secondary is cleaner (i.e., more trub-free), but if you
use the oft-cited yeast washing techniques, the yeast from the primary
should be just fine.  Again, I'd use a starter.  I'm just speculating,
but it's possible that if you _are_ going to repitch into your next batch
without making a starter that the yeast from the primary would work better.
What say you, Dan or Al?

Now go have a beer,

Bob Paolino    uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Madison

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 14:05:00 EST
From: "Reynolds, Jeffrey S." <jsr0 at NIORDS1.EM.CDC.GOV>
Subject: SS Keg and welding


Hi everyone,
     I've recently purchased a Firestone stainless steel keg to convert into 
a boiler/kettle and have a few questions.  I've read the keg faq and it 
states that oxy-acetylene cannot be used for welding stainless steel.  I 
talked to someone at a machine shop that confirmed this and said it was 
impossible to weld ss with oxy-acetylene.  I know a retired man who used to 
weld for a living and said that he has welded ss with a torch many times 
(but not using Tig or Mig).  What's the deal with oxy-acetylene?  If my 
acquaintance can weld the keg with a torch using ss wire, will it be safe? 

     The keg I have has a bung hole in a piece of steel with a seam around 
it.  Also the keg itself has two seams running completely around it 
horizontally.  Can I assume that these welds will be safe even under the 
heat of a propane burner (i.e. that these welds are Tig or Mig and are safe) 
?  Or should I look for a seamless keg?
     I'm preparing to do my first all-grain brewing and appreciate any help 
or suggestions you might have.

Thanks,

Jeff Reynolds
jsr0 at niords1.em.cdc.gov
jsr0 at delphi.com

       

Return to table of contents


Date: 06 Oct 1995 13:12:13 PST
From: "P. Michael Virga" <HW1.MVIRGA at HW1.CAHWNET.GOV>
Subject: How do the big boys carbonate?


      744 P Street Rm 340
      Sacramento, Ca 95814           HW1.MVIRGA at HW1.CAHWNET.GOV

   I have a question regarding how the big boys carbonate vs how
   we carbonate using priming sugar.  But first let me digress with
   why I ask this question.

   My brother lives in Colorado. I live in California. There is
   obviously a significant difference in altitude.  When I have
   taken my beer bottled in CA to CO, after popping the top and
   letting it sit, a column of foam will build.  Conversly, his
   beers go flat rather quickly after opening them here. Now this
   isn't a problem since his excellent beer never sits long!
   Being the modest person he is, he thinks it is his fault for
   not putting in enough priming sugar prior to bottling.

   So... Does Coors, choke, use CO2 to carbonate? How is carbonation
   controlled when produced and distributed through out the US?

   P. Michael Virga

 Iron rusts from disuse, stagnant water loses its purity, and
 in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the
 vigors of the mind  -- Leonardo da Vinci

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 15:58 CST
From: ASFA.DAUPO04A at daubgw1.itg.ti.com (Eric Rouse)
Subject: 2 standard drinks a day

Ken Willing Wrote:
- --------------------------------------------------
If you had "up to 2" standard drinks a day ("one standard drink" = approx. 10 
ounces of beer, or the alcohol equivalent in wine or spirits), you were 10% 
more likely to be alive at the end of the period than if you had none.

If you had "2 to 3" standard drinks a day, you were 30% more likely to be alive 
at the end of the period than if you had none.

If you had "3 or more" standard drinks a day, you were 60% more likely to be 
alive at the end of the period than if you had none.
- --------------------------------------------------

Ken,  Did they say anything regarding the cause of death in those that didn't 
make it?  I was just wondering if there were any percentages relating to 
alcohol related problems in the group.

- ---
Eric Rouse - ASFA at msg.ti.com
Personal Productivity Products - Sales Force Automation Software Development
"I am Pentium of Borg, Resistance is Futile, You will be Approximated"


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 17:49:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Maltose rests/Saazer hops

Al says:

<No.  The rest at 60C (140F) is at the very low end of the active range
<of beta amylase and is at the high end of protease range.  Since the
<rate of enzymatic action is temperature-dependent, the rest at 60C
<does very little saccharification (unless we are talking hours) and thus 
<is primarily for the action of protease.  Protease breaks big proteins
<into medium-sized proteins.  So the 60C rest is a protein rest and
<is not really much of a factor in the fermentability of the beer.

I wonder.  I bet a lot more conversion takes place at 60/62C than 
you might guess.  The thing is one rarely only rests at 60C, but it
is widely stated that the time spent in 60-65C is the prime controlling
factor in real degree of fermentation ie: maltose production.

Regarding saazer hops:

<In a malicious adolescent tantrum, 
<A-B has canceled all purchases of the Saaz hops from the budding 
<democracy, presumable indefinitely. Although you'll be hard pressed 
<to find hops in any single A-B beer, their products represent 4 of 
<every 10 beers consumed in America, and therefore employ an enormous 
<amount of hops overall. The move will deeply hurt the poorest people 
<in the Czech Hops food chain - peasants, small farmers, dock workers, 
<etc

I wonder how long lived this impact could last.  Saazer is one of the
most expensive and prized hops in the world.  Location of growth is 
limited, demand high and therefore price is high.  If this action caused
the price of saazer to drop, then more brewers (micros and big ones)
could use this hop.  It might be a hardship to the small folks but
it could be helpful to the availability of good saazers.  

Good brewing,

Jim Busch
busch at mews.gsfc.nasa.gov

"DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLONDE HOPPEBIER!"

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:49:46 -0700
From: KevCallahan at eworld.com
Subject: RE>Stuck Fermentation

>From: NParker at Lockheed.on.ca (Neal Parker)
>
>A number of beers I've brewed in the last while start off quickly (6 hours
>from pitching), foam up well and then stop short at 1.025, 1.022, etc. and
never
>really move from these S.G.s (or take 2 weeks to do it).
>
>I brew extracts with dry or liquid yeast, boil everything, cool the wort,
>let sit, rack off the trub, shake the bejesus out of the carboy (for 5 min)
>and then pitch.  The thing is - this problem is new to me
>and might coincide with me doing full boils.  I'm tired of having to 
>worry about it - how do I prevent these incomplete ferments?  Aerate more?
>Could there be a problem with leaving too much trub behind?  I allready 
>pitch from a 750ml starter - go to a 1.5l starter?  Go back to open ferments
>(I use a carboy for the primary now)?

I read the reply from Douglas O'Brien and just wanted to add that the
aeration should be done after the wort cools (John Palmer's article at
"ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer/docs/brewing_your_first_beer"
is a great source for more on this).  I had similar problems until I figured
this out.

Kevin Callahan
kevcallahan at eworld.com
Boston, MA

Return to table of contents

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1851, 10/07/95