FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Beta-amylase at 140F (60C) (Geoff Scott)
  Aluminum Pots (WALZENBREW)
  Spaghettibrau ("Pat Babcock")
  Slovakia (Craig Amundsen)
  Brewing Software (IHomeBrew)
  Road Dog Ale / Broadway Brewing (John Adams)
  Re: Australian yeast (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Rootbeer warning (Jeffrey Quick)
  Homemade Malt Mill (C.D. Pritchard)
  Copper pipe epoxy (PatrickM50)
  Wyeast 1056 ("Richard J. Smith")
  wort aeration via air pump (LEE_BOLLARD)
  Brewing Software (LEE_BOLLARD)
  Re: Paddle Finish (hollen)
  John Roberts?? (hollen)
  Re:  Paddle Finish ("Ray Cooper")
  Re: Paddle Finish (Tim Fields)
  Germany/UK Trip (FSAC) <pburke at fsac3.pica.army.mil>
  Oak barrels (Kris Thomas Messenger)
  1995 Capitol District Open is Open (Fred Hardy)
  Correction (Jim Busch)
  re: brewing school ("Robert Marshall")
  Re: RIMS process questions (hollen)
  Philly Homebrew competition (Joe Uknalis)
  Removing labels (gravels)
  NEED ASSISTANCE (CLOVIS001)
  Sassafras (Russell Mast)
  Uncl: Bayerisches Bier (staerker als...) ("Calvin Perilloux")



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 10:23:21 -0500
From: gscott at io.org (Geoff Scott)
Subject: Beta-amylase at 140F (60C)

Steve is looking for a discussion of lower temperature saccharification
rests.  It seems clear to me that although slow at 60 degrees,
saccharification is going on.  As Steve points out, maximum fermentability
is achieved somewhere around 60.  But that's as far as we agree.
Steve:
>I'm not overly enamoured of the higher amylase activity at 65C as a
>homebrewer.  A-B may be in a hurry when they brew; I can afford the
>extra 30 minutes.  A homebrewer's greater difficulty is in controlling
>the process. I suspect that by timing a primarily beta-amylase rest
>and a primarily alpha-amylase rest that I can achieve tighter control
>and greater reproducability of recipes. The alternative is to choose an
>intermediate temperature which results in the correct balance of alpha
>& beta amylase activities (like your 65C).  Controlling mash results by
>this fine temperature control is relatively difficult.

It's interesting to note that although a mash at 60 gives max
fermentability, a mash at 65 gives max extraction.  I know, craft brewers
are not mainly concerned with extraction but it illustrates that beta and
alpha amylases do not work in isolation.  For this reason I don't think it
can be as neat as separate rests for beta and alpha at their respective
optimum temperatures.  In a mash around 65 where both are active, I can
think of two ways alpha helps beta do its job.  Alpha amylase is the more
important liquefaction enzyme, it facilitates water uptake in the starch
granules so that beta can get to work.  Secondly, alpha can break 1-6 links
connecting the side chains of starch to make more ends available to beta.
So Steve, I'm afraid you'll have to stop mashing so low and come up to
around 65 like some of the rest of us. (Just kidding)  To be honest, my
main objection to low saccharification rests is the resulting  beer - too
dry for my tastes.

regards,

Geoff Scott
gscott at io.org
Brewing page    http://www.io.org/~gscott



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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 11:59:48 -0400
From: WALZENBREW at aol.com
Subject: Aluminum Pots

In HBD #1854 Randy Barnes, San Diego, writes:

>In the latest Zymurgy special issue the author of one of the
> articles commented that there was still some debate in homebrewing
>circles over whether aluminum pots were acceptable for use in brewing.
>My understanding was that the aluminum would undesirable affect the 
>beer. Anyone out there using aluminum? It's sure cheaper than 
>stainless.

I used a 15 gallon aluminum lobster pot that I bought for $25 at a
closeout store for about four years.  I had no trouble with it and made
excellent beer.  Only problem with it was that it was impossible to find
anyone willing or able to weld a drain pipe and valve on it, which is
why I sold it and bought a Vollrath stainless 15 gallon pot.  I wanted
the convenience of no more damned hot wort siphons, and the advantage of
a false bottom for sparging all-grain batches and separating leaf hops
(and hot break) from the boiling wort at boil's end.

The only difference I noted was in the fermentation.  Certain ale yeasts
took 50% to 100% longer to ferment out completely when the wort was
boiled in aluminum.  In other words, instead of a 7-10 day primary
ferment, it always took about 2 1/2-3 weeks.  Of course, the beer tasted
excellent, so I never felt this to be a problem.  And re-pitches of the
yeast remained viable and continued to make good beer.  I won about
eight ribbons at various competitions with the beer brewed in this pot.

Alzheimers from aluminum pots?  Paranoid bullshit.  Autopsies performed
on Alzheimer's patients show elevated levels of aluminum, granted, but
nobody's been able to prove that aluminum is the cause rather than a
symptom.  Probably because aluminum is so common in so much of the food
we eat - it's almost impossible to keep from ingesting _some_ aluminum
in your diet.  An article in the New York Times cooking section a few
years ago demonstrated that even with low-pH foods (like beer wort) the
increase in ingested aluminum from aluminum cooking pots is negligible.

So if you have an aluminum pot, and don't mind not having a drain valve
and spigot, don't be afraid to use it.  You'll make great beer with it.

Prosit!
Greg Walz
Pittsburgh PA

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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 11:45:15 +0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
Subject: Spaghettibrau

 In HBD #1857, John DeCarlo sez:

<SNIP>
 
> If you have *any* worries, I would simmer spaghetti sauce in there for a 
> couple of hours--if any aluminum is capable of leaching in there, you will 
> definitely taste it.  If the sauce tastes non-metallic, you can use it for 
> your wort without worries.  

Interesting. I had never considered using spaghetti sauce in my wort; 
with, or without worries. This a new style?

(Sorry, John! Couldn't resist)         ;-)
Pat Babcock                 | "Beer is my obsession, and I'm late for
President, Brew-Master      |  therapy..." -PGB
and Chief Taste-Tester      | "Let a good beer be the exclamation point 
Drinkur Purdee pico Brewery |  at the end of your day as every sentence 
pbabcock at oeonline.com       |  requires proper punctuation." -PGB
SYSOP on The HomeBrew University - Motor City Campus BBS (313)397-9758
Visit the Homebrew Flea Market via http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock 

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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 11:08:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: Craig Amundsen <amundsen at biosci.cbs.umn.edu>
Subject: Slovakia

> From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
> Subject: news from Slovak Republic
> 
> Warning: Beer-related, but not homebrewing-related|  Just trying to
> spread a little information....
> 
> A tiny item in the bottom corner of the front of the business section
> (Milwaukee Journalsentinel) notes that Dutch giant Heineken has acquired
> a 66% stake in Zlaty Bazant, a brewery in the Slovak Republic.
> 
> As a matter of international concern, this may not be anything on the
> scale of Anheuser-Busch's attempt to swallow up Budvar, but I'm wondering
> if any of you knows anything about the brewery and its beer.  How about
> some of you folks who had the luxury of making beer trips to Central/Eastern
> Europe this summer?  (And, more importantly, does Roger Baylor know
> about this? :-) )

I didn't get to go to Eastern Europe this summer, but I did spend about an
hour in the Bratislava airport a couple summers ago. While waiting, a bunch
of people in my party had something that translates to Red Pheasant (or
maybe Rooster or maybe Bird or maybe Big Ol' Feathered Thing). It was a
strong yummy beer. I don't remember the name of the brewery, but it was
a Slovak beer and it was good. That's not much help I realize, but hey
I just wanted to contribute my $1/50.

 - Craig
- -- 
+-----------------------------+------------------------------------------------+
| Craig Amundsen              | DILBERT - Sometimes I wonder if it's ethical   |
| amundsen at biosci.cbs.umn.edu |           to do these genetic experiments. But |
| (612) 624-2704              |           I rationalize it because it will     |
| 250 Biological Sciences     |           improve the quality of life.         |
| 1445 Gortner Avenue         | DOGBERT - What are you making?                 |
| Saint Paul, MN 55108        | DILBERT - Skunkopotamus.                       |
+-----------------------------+------------------------------------------------+

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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 12:53:25 -0400
From: IHomeBrew at aol.com
Subject: Brewing Software

Charlie,

I too, don't really like the brewing software that I've come across so far.
 Currently, I use a hodgepodge of Excel spreadsheets that are getting my by
until I can take the time to sit down and write my own program (I am a senior
CS major at The University of Puget Sound, Tacoma, WA).  Right now, I am
tossing around the far fetched idea of proposing to write a homebrew recipe
formulator next semester for my independent study class (I think I can pull
the wool over their eyes by proposing it as a software engineering project --
boy I hope none of my profs are reading this!  :-{ ).  Will make sure I post
the BB location of it if and when I ever get around to coding the
application.

Prost!
Clark Ritchie

PS - I will make sure to poll HBD readers about what features, etc. to
include with the application sometime in the future.

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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 12:13:31 -0600
From: John Adams <j_adams at hpfcjca.sde.hp.com>
Subject: Road Dog Ale / Broadway Brewing

For those of your you have not seen Broadway Brewing's Road Dog Ale
I have faithfully transcribed both the front and back labels and the
very rare flyer that hangs around the neck.

John Adams


(from the label on the front)


                        Road Dog Ale

			Scottish Ale
		<illustration by Ralph Steadman>
                     Good beer  No Shit
                "Good People drink good beer."

      Brewed and bottled by Broadway Brewing LLC, Denver, Colorado
	 exclusively for Flying Dog Brew Pub, Aspen, Colorado


(from the back label)

This label represents one of many (some unmentionable) collaborations
between infamous road dogs Ralph Steadman and Hunter S. Thompson, and to
our knowledge, it is the first label to grace a bottle of ale that was
created by renowned international artist and gonzo a journalist (who by
the way net in their youth at a racetrack).  Although this art will only
last through the months of Fall, look for the new year to bring yet
another outrageous effort.

"There is an ancient Celtic axiom that says 'Good people drink good
beer.'  Which is true, then as now.  Just look around you in any public
barroom and you will quickly see: Bad people drink bad beer.  Think
about it." -- Hunter S. Thompson


(from attached flyer)

                   Ale According to Hunter

Ale has long been the drink of thugs, convicts, rowdies, rakes and other
depraved outlaws who thrive on the quick bursts of night energy that ale
brings.  In the 17th century England gangs of ale-crazed fops would
often fight to the death in all-night brawls on public greenswards,
which terrified the citizenry and left many of the infamous "youngblood
horsemen" chopped up with grievous sword and dagger wounds...  These
were the Wild Boys of Olde English story and song, rich sots on
horseback who amused themselves in London by riding out at night, ripped
to the tits on strong ale, and "pooped old ladies into empty
booze-barrels and rolled them down steep, cobblestone hills with crazy
screams and shouts"*

"If you must roll ladies down hills and you don't want to pay the bills
Try to be, and clean off their lice with powerful Road Dog Ale." --
Hunter J. Thompson

*Hell-Fire Francis, by R. Fuller, 1939

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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 95 14:18:07 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Australian yeast

In HBD 1857, Bryan (bgros at mindseye.berkeley.edu) comments on the
difficulty of deciding which part of his mash he should take the
temperature of, and then says:

>   My second question is whether anyone has experience with
>   the Austrailian ale yeast from Yeast labs (I think).
>   Some members of my club professed great results with
>   this yeast, and remarked that it seemed to ferment out
>   in three days.  I've been using it the last few batches,
>   the last two of which I pitched on the dregs of the
>   secondary.  While fermentation did seem to be complete
>   in about three days, SG measurements indicated that
>   fermentation continued slowly over the next week or so.
>   I bottled when the FG got to about 12.  I notice now
>   that most of my bottles are overcarbonated.  Seems like
>   this yeast keeps going slowly for quite a while.  I'm
>   going back to Wyeast.  Any  comments?

First of all, let me offer this disclaimer, which other HBDers have
heard before: Dan McConnell, PhD, owner of YeastLab, is a good friend of
mine, and gives me starters as part of his Quality Assurance program.
So I never buy yeast.  However, as I have stated before, and as Dave
("I'm not from here, I just live here") Draper gleefully quoted me, I
can't be bought for a mere $3.50.  Furthermore, I have a bit of a
paternal feeling for this particular yeast (A01), since Dan cultured it
up (before he started YeastLab) from a bottle of Cooper's Sparkling Ale
hand carried from Oz by Aussie friends of mine, back before it was
available here.  At the time, we didn't know anything about the yeast,
but I was intrigued by the ale by Jackson's description of it and the
brewery (the brewery that time forgot, so to speak) in his original
World Guide to Beer.

It became and remains a favorite yeast of mine and of others in the Ann
Arbor Brewers Guild.  It is a good, general purpose ale yeast that
delivers a nice, complex fruitiness, especially when fermented in the
upper 60s to low 70s.  It also seems to me to emphasize the hops, as
opposed to other yeasts which seem to emphasize the malt (which I also
like in some styles). Right now, I have on tap two ales fermented with
this yeast: a best bitter (a bit darkish with dark medium crystal and
some special B; and a nice "cascadey" American pale ale (I called it
Sierra Foothills - at OG 1.040, it doesn't quite reach the summit of
Sierra Nevada).  The yeast makes a nice contribution to each of these
somewhat different ales.  Interestingly, the bitter, which was pitched
from a culture, keeps on ticking over, providing a continual source of
keg pressure.  The American Ale, which was repitched from the bitter,
fermented out and quit.  I kegged it, and a week later tapped it and was
surprised to find it had virtually no pressure.  Actually, this is a bit
of a bother, since I like to have the continual evolution of just enough
CO2 to keep the beer conditioned without a CO2 tank.

So, with all of that said, let me suggest that the source of your and my
continuing fermentation (more bothersome for you, since you have
bottled), is variation in the grain bill and mash schedule.  As you have
pointed out, different parts of the mash are likely to be different
temperatures, making it hard to say just what the oeprative temperature
actually is.  Dave Line recommends a higher mash temp for "ales from the
wood," so that the wort will have more dextrins, which provide that very
slow fermention that continually provides conditioning.  (Dextrins are
nominally unfermentable, but it seems to me that some of them, perhaps
the shortest, do so very slowly, ultimately producing a thinner, drier,
more carbonated beer over time).  I think that crystal malts may provide
some of this as well.  Perhaps a slightly lower mash temperature would
produce a better fermenting out wort.

The other possible explanation of continuing fermentations is
underpitching and/or under aeration.  I assume that since you repitched,
this is not your problem.  Anyhow, I don't think this is due to the
yeast strain.  I've used it dozens of times and have not seen it any
more or less than with any other yeast.

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu


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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 20:19:11 -0400
From: jaquick at en.com (Jeffrey Quick)
Subject: Re: Rootbeer warning


>
>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 19:21:33 -0500
>From: blacksab at siu.edu
>Subject: re: Rootbeer warning!
>
>I can't put my finger on it right now, but I read very recently that
>Sassafras root is not only mildly poisonous, but that the FDA has also made
>it illegal to sell (I'm talking about the root here, and not the bark).
>Anyone know anyhing more on this subject?
Sassafras contains safrole, which is a carcinogen, hence the ban. Nutmeg is
a hallucinogen which will trash your liver, but it's legal, because nobody
uses those amounts (unless they're in prison.) Has to do I believe with
something called the Delaney Amendment.  If it's proven to cause cancer in
lab rats, they have to ban it.

>I for one would be REAL curious to know the level of danger present
Probably not much, unless you're exposed to lots of other
carcinogens/mutagens at work.  This might be a question for
alt.folklore.herbs.  I would guess that the result of these rootbeer
recipes would be no more carcinogenic than your typical American commercial
beer. But then, I'm not drinking it.  Anybody got some hard science on
this?

Jeffrey Quick.
"Windows '84- Cupertino's gift to mankind."



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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 95 08:27 EDT
From: cdp at chattanooga.net (C.D. Pritchard)
Subject: Homemade Malt Mill

I've just completed a single roller malt mill.  It crushes the malt against
an adjustable tangential steel plate. I puzzled for a long time over what to
use for the roller since I wanted to avoid spending alot of $$$ at a machine
shop on a metal one.  I decided to use concrete.  Got a 4" diameter PVC pipe
cap, drilled a 5/8" hole in it's center, inserted a 5/8" steel rod which had
a 5/16" rod inserted into a hole (serves as torque reinforcement and
enhances the bond of the concrete to the shaft). The thing looks like this:

        +========= <----------4" pipe cap form
        |   ++
        |   ||<---------------5/16" rod
        |   ||
    +-------||-----------+<---5/8" rod shaft
    +-------||-----------+
        |   ||
        |   ||
        |   ++
        +=========
I used fast setting "quickcrete" to fill the pipe cap.  It's available in 10
pound yellow plastic buckets and has no gravel in it.  After the concrete
set (24 hours), I removed the pipe cap by cutting slots along it's periphery
with a table saw and then pried off the plastic in chunks. The roller was
then mounted into a wood frame with ball bearings.  It was a tad out of
round  and had a slight taper along it's axis so I used a right angle
grinder with a masonary disk to true it up. Did it by rotating the roller
while applying the grinder.  

The mill works great and cost less than $20.  I'd worried it might produce
too much flour, however, in a pound of grain, there's only about a
tablespoon or so of flour.  I'm doing my first partial mash today.
Wish me luck...

c.d. pritchard     cdp at chattanooga.net 
C.D. Pritchard    cdp at chattanooga.net


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Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:39:50 -0400
From: PatrickM50 at aol.com
Subject: Copper pipe epoxy

Tim Laatsch asked about using epoxy for his copper pipe assembly instead of
soldering.  

This past weekend I replaced my hot water heater (Sooo much more fun than
brewing.)  Instead of sweating on a new copper pressure release drain tube I
used some "Copper-Bond" by The Noble Company at my local hardware store.
<$8.00.  It's an epoxy that they say is specifically formulated for copper
pipe, is intended for hot and cold water service, contains no lead, and "is
made from food grade safe resins".  It seems to work fine - so far, but it's
not being used under pressure.  Of course I'm not associated with this
company, etc, etc.  You can get more info from them via their fax-back number
at 1-800-272-1519 or via phone at 616-842-7844.

Also, many thanks to Rolland for info on how to conceal ones address on the
listserver!

Pat Maloney, Rohnert Park, CA  (patrickm50 at aol.com)

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Date: 15 Oct 95 13:40:47 EDT
From: "Richard J. Smith" <72154.516 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Wyeast 1056

I recently had a batch go bad during primary fermentation.  I was using Wyeast
1056, no starter, just pitched the swollen pack into the cooled wort.
Fermentation caught on after 24 hours and went for a week.  After fermentation
ended I racked to the secondary; I was confounded by the nasty, green apple
smell during the racking and almost puked when I stuck my head in the plastc
primary.  My initial conclusion was, hey, I lost it in my sanitation procedures
even though I cut no corners and had no problems before.
Well, I tried a little experiment with yeast propagation following  Dave Ebert's
technique outlined in a recent HBD posting as follows:

>
>I smack a fresh pack of Wyeast and prepare about 1 gallon of 1.030 
>wort that has been highly aerated and supplemented with a good dose 
>of yeast nutrient.  When the yeast pack has swollen properly I pitch 
>the yeast.  Ferment lock in place, I let 'er go for about 10 days.  I 
>carefully rouse the slurry back into solution and siphon the fluid 
>into 11 12oz bottles.  I cap them, label them, and place them in the 
>fridge.
>

I tried this using Wyeast 1056; I obtained this from a different retailer than
my bad batch yeast.  As I was transferring to the bottles after fermenting,
there it was again, the green apple, sick smell, a little less putrid  but quite
noticeable.

Both packets of yeast were stamped with a September '95 date, and, in between
these two run-ins with Wyeast 1056 I brewed a great batch of beer using a
different yeast!  Fermentation temperatures were in the proper range each time.

I have given a fellow brewer another packet of the same yeast to try propagation
at his home completely away from any house bacteria loitering around my brewery.
Before the results from this experiment come in, my question for the collective
is, Has anyone else had this problem with the September crop of Wyeast 1056?
Any other possible explanations out there?  Is there a WYeast Labs hot line?

Like all my other brewing adventures, I am looking forward to better brewing
from this run in.  If I can nail down the problem I'll post the solution.  Thanx

Jack from West Point


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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 95 16:52:26 -0600
From: LEE_BOLLARD at HP-Spokane-om2.om.hp.com
Subject: wort aeration via air pump

Item Subject: cc:Mail Text

Bob Talkiewicz writes:

:One of my beer geek buddies and I were talking about wort aeration. 
:I've used an aquarium air pump with a couple different types of air stone
:diffusers. My experience is that the foaming is so great that it becomes a
:humongous PITA, even with 5 gal of wort in a 6.5 gal carboy.
:I can run the air pump for about 10 min, then have to shut it off and wait
:20-30 min for the foam to subside before I can turn the pump on again. 3 
:or 4 of these cycles is the limit of my patience.
     
     That has been my experience exactly.  What I do is just let the foam 
     exit out the top of the carboy.  You really don't lose all that much 
     wort doing this.  Messy? It can be, but I bought a plastic tray like 
     you see bus-persons in restaurants use to carry around dirty dishes.  
     I place the carboy in the tray and the tray catches all the mess.  
     
:I typically use the 'holes drilled in the tube aerator and shake carboy 
:when half full' aeration technique. There was no noticeable difference in 
:the terminal gravity between this technique and using the air pump, with a
:standard beer recipe and same yeast.

     I found that the biggest difference the aquarium pump made was in 
     making the starters.  Aerating the starters solved my stuck 
     fermentation problems.  I had good luck with the "venturi tube" you 
     describe, got lots of foam, but still had stuck ferments until I began 
     aerating my starters.

:Any thoughts on this? WIll using 02 make much difference?

O2 is probably quicker, but I've heard it is possible to OVER aerate using 
O2.  Over aeration isn't really possible using an aquarium pump.  Don't 
know how O2 would affect foaming.  

Cheers!

Lee Bollard
bollard at spk.hp.com

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 95 17:21:59 -0600
From: LEE_BOLLARD at HP-Spokane-om2.om.hp.com
Subject: Brewing Software

Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
Charlie  (Brisbane, Australia) wrote:

>Three were on SUDS, one of those talked the authors into modifications, one 
>is writing something else because of perceived limitations, the third likes 
>it but wants decoction mashing and fermentation features.
>The other reply was on Brewer's Workshop, he was very positive.

I rely on a couple brewing programs.  I use "Brewbe" to calculate infusion 
mash temps and water quantities.  I use "Bewers Calculator" for recipes and 
really like the way it PRINTS an entire recipe, including ingredients, mash 
details, water additions, boil, fermention and tasting information, along with 
NOTES for each of these on ONE PAGE.  NICE!

Lee Bollard
bollard at spk.hp.com

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 16:30:40 -0700
From: hollen at vigra.com
Subject: Re: Paddle Finish

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Fields <74247.551 at compuserve.com> writes:

Tim> In #1856, flp2m at galen.med.virginia.edu> asks:
>> I've just made a paddle for stirring my mash and brew out of
>> maple. Should I put a finish on it like polyurathane or clear
>> epoxy, or leave it unfinished?
Tim> I vote for unfinished.  If you are bent on finishing it, there are clear 
Tim> wood finishes that are ffood-grade (used for salad bowls and such).  You 
Tim> could also use vegtable oil (might sour?) or lemon oil (might flavor the 
Tim> wort?) or any food-grade oil.

EGADS, oil?  Oil will kill the head on beer if it makes it into the
finished product.  I would imagine this is not such a good idea.

dion

- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x119       Email: hollen at vigra.com
Senior Software Engineer     Vigra, Inc.  San Diego, California

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 18:28:55 -0700
From: hollen at vigra.com
Subject: John Roberts??

Sorry for the use of bandwidth, but does anyone have an Email address
for John Roberts, an author in the latest Zymurgy?

thanks,
dion

Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x119       Email: hollen at vigra.com
Senior Software Engineer     Vigra, Inc.  San Diego, California


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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 06:56:56 UT
From: "Ray Cooper" <Ray_Cooper at msn.com>
Subject: Re:  Paddle Finish

In #1856, flp2m at galen.med.virginia.edu> asks:
>>I've just made a paddle for 
stirring my mash and brew out of
>>maple. Should I put a finish on it like 
polyurathane or clear
>>epoxy, or leave it unfinished?

timf at relay.com 
(non-brewing time) replied:
>I vote for unfinished.  If you are bent on 
finishing it, there are clear 
>wood finishes that are ffood-grade (used for 
salad bowls and such).  You 
>could also use vegtable oil (might sour?) or 
lemon oil (might flavor the 
>wort?) or any food-grade oil.

If you're 
going to use oil, I recommend mineral oil since it's colorless,
odorless, 
doesn't have flavor and won't go rancid. The food grade variety 
goes for 
less than $3/pint at your local drug store. The drawback is that 
it's sold 
as a oral lubricant (perhaps a good thing), and laxative:^) From 
what I 
remember of steam distillations, most, if not all of any oil that
gets to 
the wort for the first couple of batches should get boiled off, as
long as 
it doesn't complex with anything. Remeber that lipids (oils) in 
your 
finished brew will be detrimental to head retention. You should 
probably 
apply any finish you decide on to preheated wood to open 
the pores for 
maximum penetration making it less likely to come out 
in your mash.

Good 
Luck
Ray Cooper (San Leandro, CA)

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Date: 16 Oct 95 07:57:23 EDT
From: Tim Fields <74247.551 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Paddle Finish

Dion Hollenbeck(hollen at vigra.com) reacts to my comments about oil finishing:

>EGADS, oil?  Oil will kill the head on beer if it makes it into the
>finished product.  I would imagine this is not such a good idea.
Well, I wouldn't use enough for that to happen - but you have a point I 
suppose. The idea is to use just enough finish so it is absorbed into the 
wood.  Just a little dab will do yah.  Anyway, my preference is for the 
unfinished approach. I'd just try and get a spoon (or paddle if my tun 
was large enough) made of dense-grained wood).

The concern I have with non-penetrating finishes (like poly or varnish) 
is that they could flake off eventually.


"Reeb!"
      - Tim
           Tim Fields...Fairfax, VA
           74247.551 at compuserve.com _or_ timfields at aol.com (weekends)
           timf at relay.com (non-brewing time)



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Date:     Mon, 16 Oct 95 9:05:14 EDT
From: "Peter J. Burke" (FSAC) <pburke at fsac3.pica.army.mil>
Subject:  Germany/UK Trip

Greetings,

I will be visiting Germany and the UK in mid November. Having gotten
great info via the net on a trip to Sweden a few years ago, I thought
to give it another whirl. I will be in;
Germany:
8 - 11 Nov	Koblez
11- 15 Nov	Neurenberg
15- 18 Nov	Hamburg/Meldorf

United Kingdom
18- 20 Nov	London 
20     Nov	Lostock
21- 22 Nov	London

Has anyone had any especially brewery or brew-type good experiences at
the above locations ?

Please send direct replys to:	pburke at pica.army.mil

Thanks in advance !!


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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 08:00:05 -0700
From: Kris Thomas Messenger <kmesseng at slonet.org>
Subject: Oak barrels

There have been several postings on oak lately.  I was curious too, so did a
search.  I found an article on the internet on cask conditioned ales and
wrote the author with questions about IPA's, etc.  The author is Dr. Gillian
Grafton and here is her reply:




From: "Dr. Gillian Grafton" <GRAFTONG at novell2.bham.ac.uk>
Organization:  The University of Birmingham
To: Kris Thomas Messenger <kmesseng at slonet.org>
Date:          Fri, 6 Oct 1995 08:48:01 +0000
Subject:       Re: Cask conditioned beer
Priority: normal

Hi Tom

> I under stand
> IPA's were shipped to India in barrels; were these oak? lined?
> unlined?

In the UK cask conditioned beers are mainly dispensed from metal 
casks, these are either stainless steel or aluminium. The reason is 
simply cost, they are cheaper than wood casks and it doesn't seem to 
affect the flavour. That said there are still a large number of 
brewers and homebrewers who use wood casks, me included. The casks 
are made from European oak and are unlined. From conversations I've had 
with other American brewers it seems that the only casks you get in the US are 
made from American oak.  European oak doesn't impart any flavour to 
the beer which is why the casks are used unlined. American oak 
however gives the beer a strong oak flavour - I've never tried it 
but have been told that the flavour can be overpowering. Therefore if 
you can't get hold of casks made from European oak I would definitely 
recommend that you  use a lined cask. IPA brewers used to ship their 
beer to India in unlined European oak casks (I don't know where the 
story arose that they used pitch lined casks - it isn't true!).

Hope this helps.
Gillian
//=\   Dr. Gillian Grafton
\=//   Department of Immunology
 //=\  University of Birmingham
 \=//  Birmingham, UK
  //=\ Email:  GraftonG at novell2.bham.ac.uk
  \=// www:  http://sun1.bham.ac.uk/GraftonG/

* - * - * - * - * - *

And thanks to all who sent comments on "Zymurgy" vs "Brewing Techniques"
magazines.  Something like 12 out of 12 said Zymurgy is oriented towards
beginners and hobbyists while BT has articles of a more technical nature.
Most respondents said they subscribe to both. 
Tom Messenger, Los Osos, California, USA *** kmesseng at slonet.org


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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 11:16:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Fred Hardy <fcmbh at access.digex.net>
Subject: 1995 Capitol District Open is Open


   1995 CAPITOL DISTRICT OPEN HOMEBREWING COMPETITION
                   WASHINGTON, DC
                  NOVEMBER 4, 1995

Last call for entries, stewards and BJCP judges! The entry window
is open, and stays open to 6 PM on Halloween <;{>. Interested
judges and potential stewards should contact Wayne Gisiger, Judge
Coordinator at his office (202) 501-2100 x2798, or at home (703)
256-8838. The HC is sanctioned by the American Homebrewers
Association (AHA) and recognized by the Beer Judge Competition
Program (BJCP). Points for judges and stewards will be reported
to both organizations. The judging is closed to the public and
only judges, stewards and the agonizing committee will be
admitted to the competition site.

Once again, the competition will take place at the Hyatt Regency
Washington on Capitol Hill in Washington, DC. The ice-breaker
beer is planned to be served at 10:00 AM, BoS judging is expected
around 2:30 PM. Winners will be announced and ribbons presented
immediately after the BoS is over. BTW, the ice-breaker brew this
year is an IPA.

Stewards should plan on arriving at 9:00 AM, and judges by 9:30
AM. Judges bringing pre-registered entries should arrive at 9:00
to give us time to get the brews into the correct flight.

The Hotel is at 400 New Jersey Avenue, NW, just a few blocks from
the Union Station Metro. For those driving, 1st St., NW (behind
the hotel) has free on-street parking on Saturday.

This year, the Dulles Regional Brewing Society has commissioned a
well known (to us) artist to create a unique and distinctive
design for a commemorative T-shirt. The white Ts have 3-color art
work, and feature the capitol (top tilted open with suds spilling
out) on the back.

Although these are being produced at great expense, they are
available for $12.00 apiece in L and XL sizes. If you are not
going to be with us in DC, but would like a shirt anyway, send us
your size(s), how many and your personal check made out to DReBS
to:
              CDO-HC/T
              c/o Fred Hardy
              13215 Poplar Tree Road
              Fairfax, VA  22033
We will mail it (them?) postage paid. Note: we can not accept
Postal Money Orders - also true for entries.

For those who will be participating on the 4th, just bring your
cash or check to the event. It would help if you gave me a heads
up so we can adjust our order with the supplier.

Enter early and often!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers, Fred


==============================================================================
We must invent the future, else it will  |          <Fred Hardy>
happen to us and we will not like it.    |
[Stafford Beer, "Platform for Change"]   |    email: fcmbh at access.digex.net


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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 11:25:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Correction

Oops.

RE: DMS/SMM

<Malts that are kilned more have more precursors,
<which is one of the reasons that Pale ale malt is near impossible to 
<generate DMS beer.

Malts that kilned more have *less* precursors.  Doooh.

Jim Busch

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Date:          Sun, 15 Oct 1995 09:12:20 +0000
From: "Robert Marshall" <robertjm at hooked.net>
Subject:       re: brewing school

Someone wrote:

>Aloha everbody,
>    Eventhough i'm not in hawaii, i still like to use the word.  Anyway, i was
>wondering if anybody out there could point me in the direction of a brew
>school.   I know there are some in Cali, and Chi town, but i have no names or
>leads.  Please e-mail me privately or post it,  i don't care.

I am currently in the middle of the California State 
University-Stanislaus program (in the wonderful midwest town of 
Turlock!!!)

Its a "practical" course. By that I mean it is not an all inclusive 
course such as at Davis or Seibel or American Brewer's Guild. It also 
is only $1500, not $5000+, which all the others I mentioned are.

Their phone number is: 1-209-667-3111. Ask for Liz Graham. When you 
reach her, mention that you with to get the PRACTICAL BREWING AND 
APPLICATIONS course information.

This last weekend we spent a couple hours on a brewery tour of the 
St. Stan's Brewery, in Modesto, CA. The instructor of the course is 
Gareth Helm, CEO of St. Stans.

The final part of the course is a five day stint in the brewery, 
doing the stuff that they actually do (under tight supervision, I 
presume).

Good luck and best wishes,


Later,

Robert Marshall
robertjm at hooked.net

homepage: http://www.hooked.net/users/robertjm
- ----------------------------------------------
"In Belgium, the magistrate has the dignity
of a prince, but by Bacchus, it is true
that the brewer is king."

          Emile Verhaeren (1855-1916)
          Flemish writer
- ------------------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 09:25:01 -0700
From: hollen at vigra.com
Subject: Re: RIMS process questions

>>>>> "Steve" == DragonSC  <DragonSC at aol.com> writes:

[ ... description of temp probe placement and diff between outflow and
grainbed temps... ]

Steve> How critical are these temperature points? I made an alt last
Steve> weekend with temp. rests at 125, 144 and 158 with mashout at
Steve> 169, and got 93% efficiency according to SUDS. But while I was
Steve> at the 158 rest I measured the temp. of the outflow. It
Steve> measured 165.

Steve> Over a period of 20-30 minutes the temps equalize. This
Steve> probably isn't a problem for single mash temps, but what about
Steve> when I have all these rests?  Should I move the temp probe to
Steve> the top of the mash, rather than the middle?  I would assume
Steve> that the mash would take even longer to reach temp. if I did
Steve> that.

Steve> What does the RIMS experienced collaborative have to say?

I think you may be a little too paranoid.  I just completed a test to
prove/disprove the theory that RIMS detractors put forth that you
cannot get a beer with body from only pale malt because the temp boost
from protein rest to sacchrification rest is so slow all starch will
be converted at temps favoring Beta amylase and complete
fermentability.  First batch mashed at 150F second batch at 158F.
First batch was dead dry (1.010 after 5 days primary ferment, FG
1.006).  Second batch just went to secondary after 8 days and it is
only down to 1.023 with tons of residual sweetness and body.  FG will
not be able to be tested for another 2 weeks, but I doubt if it will
get below 1.018.

I put my temp controller probe in the wort stream before the heater
and the digital temperature readout in the outflow stream from the
heater.  I have no temp measurement actually in the mash (soon I will
have my BruProbeand can take actual mash temps, but not now).  I base
my system calibration on the fact that if the outflow of the wort from
the heater is 158F, the mash will eventually come up to 158F and
cannot ever exceed that.  As proven by the results of my recent tests,
I have complete control over the results without any knowledge of the
actual temperature of the mash.

I would have to say that more accurate monitoring of the mash temps
may aid accuracy, but it does not seem necessary to me.  If you adjust
your setpoint based on the mash temp, you will *always* get returning
wort several degrees hotter than your mash setpoint until equilibrium
is reached and I feel that this is not a good plan, especially if you
are trying to mash at the upper limits of an enzyme's range.  I think
limiting the wort outflow temp is much safer, but you do have to deal
with the mash lagging behind.

Given your results of monitoring temperatures, I will be very
interested in monitoring my actual mash temps when I get my BruProbe
working and be able to see exactly how far behind the mash lags.

dion

- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x119       Email: hollen at vigra.com
Senior Software Engineer     Vigra, Inc.  San Diego, California

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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 12:34:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Joe Uknalis <juknalis at arserrc.gov>
Subject: Philly Homebrew competition


Entries are now being accepted for the 12th annual HOPS Best of Philly &
Suburbs
competition.  Mailed entries must be recieved by November 4, 1995.
The competition will be on November 12, 1995 at Independence Brweing in
northeast Philadelphia.  An awards banquet held that evening is open to all. 

For info & entry forms:

http://www.netaxs.com/~ktoast/hops.html

or email me & I'll forward you the entry info.

juknalis at arserrc.gov



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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 13:31:07 EST
From: gravels at TRISMTP.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
Subject: Removing labels

RE: Bottle labels

     Steven Lefebvre asks about removing the labels from bottles in
HBD #1858.  This question seems to pop up every four or five months,
the general consensus is to use ammonia, about 1 1/2 cups in a warm
water, overnight, soak in the bathtub will do the trick.  The labels
will fall off.  Beware of the shiny labels.  Some labels are shiny
and are impervious to water, so the outer layer must be peeled off
before soaking.  Good luck!

             Steve Gravel          Newport, Rhode Island
                  gravels at TRISMTP.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
         "Homebrew, it's not just a hobby it's an adventure!"


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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 14:17:53 -0400
From: CLOVIS001 at aol.com
Subject: NEED ASSISTANCE

I AM NEW TO THIS LIST AND I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE CORRECT PROCEDURE FOR
REQUESTION INFORMATION LISTED IN HOMBREW DIGEST.

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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 13:56:54 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Sassafras


> From: blacksab at siu.edu

> I can't put my finger on it right now, but I read very recently that
> Sassafras root is not only mildly poisonous, but that the FDA has also made
> it illegal to sell (I'm talking about the root here, and not the bark).

Last I read, about 4 years ago, it was not illegal to sell, but it had to be
marked as "not edible" or something like that.  A few years before that, it 
was quite popular as an herbal tea.  It turned out to be highly carcinogenic,
if memory serves correctly.  I used to buy it at a health food store, and one
time the jar was marked "not fit for human consumption".  (Several other jars
were also thusly marked, mostly stuff they geared towards people who were 
making potpourri, as far as I could tell.)  Later, when I went back there, the
jar was no longer marked "Not fit..." and I asked, and the guy there said that
it was specially processed to remove the toxins.  

So, it's probably not a great idea to dig up your own sassafras roots unless
you can d that processing.  I recall it having been something simple, but I
really don't remember what that was.  I suggest you ask at a health food store.

 -R

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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 15:08:41 EDT
From: "Calvin Perilloux" <dehtpkn9 at ibmmail.com>
Subject: Uncl: Bayerisches Bier (staerker als...)


A.J. deLange asks...
> Calvin Perilloux signs with "Bayerisches Bier, Staerker als Heimweh."
> I'd love to see how he would explain this to non-Germans.

OK, I might as well, since EVERYONE seems to ask about it.  (Apologies
if this is misuse of bandwidth.)  Literally, that means "Bavarian Beer,
More Powerful than Homesickness".  No, it's not original from me.  I got
that on a post card showing a woozy beer swiller, still in the Gasthaus,
sipping his (German) suds well past closing time.  The beer is so good
than it overpowers his need to get home.  Likewise, perhaps it's also
stronger than my own desire to perhaps one day get back to the States
and my much missed weekly brewing, instead of being "stuck here in
Bavaria", where difficulty  getting supplies and equipment (really!),
lots of paperwork, and cheap & good commercial beer all "conspire" to
discourage the hobby.  Hmmm...  But we're working on that over here.

Calvin Perilloux                                  "Bayerisches Bier,
(A homebrewer in exile, but oh, what an exile!)    Staerker als Heimweh"
dehtpkn9 at ibmmail.com
Erding, Germany


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1859, 10/17/95