HOMEBREW Digest #1861 Thu 19 October 1995

Digest #1860 Digest #1862


	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Re: wort aeration via air pump (hollen)
  Two-litre Pop Chiller? (Douglas Painter)
  9/95 1056 questions (Joseph.Fleming)
  Styles (Rob Lauriston)
  N2O (John DeCarlo              )
  Re: Root Beer (Scott E. Bratlie)
  Using O2 in wort aeration. (John DeCarlo              )
  Betas (Algis R Korzonas)
  Egad! There's something growing in my beer! (Bill Whittaker)
  Washing mead yeast (smtplink!guym)
  enzymes, temperature and time (Algis R Korzonas)
  Easymasher - an alternative to welding? (Paul Sovcik)
  Re:   Pump Aeration Foam (C.D. Pritchard)
  wort coolers necessary? (Rolland Everitt)
  Balance & SS cleaner (Kyle R Roberson)
  [Q] Priming with unfermented wort (Woodstok)
  hop oils, vegemite beer, hop hazes, beer judging glasses (Andy Walsh)
  Bottle Conditioning Vs Filtering + Forced carbonation. (CHARLIE SCANDRETT)
  Sassafras (Mark Thompson)
  Grain Mills, Secret Ingredients, and Wort Chiller Construction (Michael G. Zentner)
  Oxygen injection (Eric Bender)
  CABERNET SAUVIGNON ALE (Mike Morgan)
  frig vs freezer ("Wallinger, W. A.")
  ALUMINUM SUMMARY (rbarnes)
  CABERNET SAUVIGNON ALE (Mike Morgan)
  CABERNET SAUVIGNON ALE (Mike Morgan)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!! October 3 thru October 13: The digest !!! will be unmanned! Please be patient if !!! you make any requests during this time !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ****************************************************************** * POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail, * I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list * that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox * is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced * mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days. * * If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only * sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get * more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list. ****************************************************************** ################################################################# # # YET ANOTHER NEW FEDERAL REGULATION: if you are UNSUBSCRIBING from the # digest, please make sure you send your request to the same service # provider that you sent your subscription request!!! I am now receiving # many unsubscribe requests that do not match any address on my mailing # list, and effective immediately I will be silently deleting such # requests. # ################################################################# NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS hpfcmgw! Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org ARCHIVES: An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at ftp.stanford.edu. Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full e-mail address as the password, look under the directory /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory. AFS users can find it under /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer. If you do not have ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail service at gatekeeper.dec.com. For information about this service, send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with the word "help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 07:45:52 -0700 From: hollen at vigra.com Subject: Re: wort aeration via air pump >>>>> "Lee" == LEE BOLLARD <LEE_BOLLARD at HP-Spokane-om2.om.hp.com> writes: Lee> O2 is probably quicker, but I've heard it is possible to OVER Lee> aerate using O2. Over aeration isn't really possible using an Lee> aquarium pump. Don't know how O2 would affect foaming. I hate to disagree here, but according to George Fix (I heard this from his lips directly) research he has done for an upcoming book definitively proves that it is *impossible* to oversaturate wort with O2 at atmospheric pressure. He went on to say that if you measure the O2 content right after injection, it may be too high, but that within a couple of minutes, it will drop to exactly the right level for maximum effectiveness for yeast growth. Regarding O2 and foaming, I use a SS 2 micron stone for O2 injection and it foams a good bit, but not too badly. However, I do my injection in a closed corny keg so foaming (no matter how much) is not a problem for me. dion - -- Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x119 Email: hollen at vigra.com Senior Software Engineer Vigra, Inc. San Diego, California Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 11:19:25 -0400 From: Douglas Painter <painter at CAM.ORG> Subject: Two-litre Pop Chiller? Let me first say that I am no longer a lurker from Montreal! But am now confident enough to post and ask questions from all you experienced HBD people. Mark Moylan, in the latest Zymurgy (p.89), states that frozen 2 litre pop bottles can be effective wort chillers; is this true? Wouldn't the plastic melt and/or effect the flavour of the brew? Has anyone tried this method? Could someone post me personally <painter at cam.org> and advise me on what to buy, or convert, for my mash and lauter tun. I guess what I am asking is what do you guys and gals have in your brew-cupboard. I only have experience with intermediate brewing and would like to mash. This is what I already have: 2 x 23lt and 1 x 19lt glass carboys; 2 x 25lt plastic bins with lids (standard food grade)one with a tap 1 1/2" above the base; and I have 2 x 19lt, and one 9lt, s.s. brew pots; and given my brew pots should I split my wort in two, make a smaller batch, or make a stronger smaller batch and add water to 5 gallons? (our Canadian gallons are bigger eh! :-} )... what shall I do? With a raised glass, Douglas Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 11:09:40 est From: Joseph.Fleming at gsa.gov Subject: 9/95 1056 questions Jack relates problems with Wyeast 1056 purchased with a 9/95 stamped date. I had a quart starter of 1056 of the same date ready to toss into my IPA when I smelled the starter: whew! Very citrusy, but it was 1AM and my first all grain brew session and I was in no mood; I pitched the starter. The beer was dry hopped so the final product smells great and fermented fine, but the yeast in the bottles is, well "chunkily floculant", not a fine layer at the bottom. The beer was unfined (save IM). Since the primary smelled allright, I pitched a brown on top of the dregs. Now I'm mad; this delicious beer is still uncarbonated almost four weeks in the bottle, though it fermented out. All fermentation at 68-70F. I of course suspected my sanitation techniques, which aren't the best, but have not failed me yet. But now Jack's post makes we wonder if the September 1056's somehow mutated enough to affect the yeast's functionality. Naw, must be me right? But I have an apple ale and oatmeal stout that fermented like mad and now smell divine in the secondary... Joe - joseph.fleming at gsa.gov Cripple Creek Brewing Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 09:55 PDT From: robtrish at mindlink.bc.ca (Rob Lauriston) Subject: Styles In case I haven't caused enough mischief... I agree with Ken Schroeder's contribution to the styles discussion. To set the record straight as to where I stand in the debate, I think that beer 'styles' are made up of three threads (like porter!), namely, history, commercial examples and arbitrary definition. When you get to a homebrew competition, only the last should matter. The 'irritation' I feel (to use Ken's word) stems from the fact that the idea of style is often 'reified' -- the lovely little word (just about as good as hegemony) that means that 'style' is treated as if it is something real and tangible out there that we can discover by exploration and examination, including historical research. "Style' is instead an invention of our imaginations, something that can be changed as easily as we change our minds about it. While the words used to name styles have a history, the point I was trying to make in the last post was that it's especially imaginitive to think that present examples of a style taste the same as they would have in the past. (But until we have time-machines, no one will really know.) Some people try a beer and then want to pigeonhole it into one style or another. There is absolutely no reason to think that a beer does or should fit into any recognized style at all, and it is certainly not a shortcoming of a beer if it doesn't. You like a beer or you don't. As for homebrew competitions OTOH, I feel that beers are best judged against a set of sensory characteristics which are defined before hand; the idea is that it is better to try to establish a goal and measure how well a brewer achieves it than to see how well a brewer pleases the preferences of the judges of a particular competition. Since things like "overall impression" are still part of judging, there remains lots of room for discretion on the part of judges. My personal feeling is that it is also of great practical benefit to have the judging criteria (aka 'styles') generally standardized from one competition to another, or at least from year to year. That way you can brew an entry to a competition before it is even organized and announced -- you just 'brew-to-style'. If the criteria for judging were different from competition to competition and weren't known until the competition was announced, would you have time to brew a qualifying entry? Individual competitions can always have extra categories, as Ken mentioned. When it comes to defining the style criteria for competitions, history and commercial examples should probably be taken into account, but at the competition after the categories have been defined, I think judges should be guided solely by the defined guidelines and that everyone should understand that they are essentially arbitrary. Breweries have no obligation to follow style guidelines in naming their beers, and so it is particularly dangerous to judge against a commercial example unless the commercial example happens to fit the defined category. Judges have lots of discretion, but I don't think they should be trying to re-define the categories at the judging table. So I generally agree with the way competitions are judged, but I disagree with the way some people seem to conceptualize 'style'. In the end, variety is my credo: variety in beers, variety in people, variety in ideas and variety in beer-related activities. Anyone who doesn't like competitions as they are can either not participate, work towards improving them or organize their own competition. This should probably be on the Judgenet, but I don't seem to be able to reach synchro.com from here! I don't dare touch the subject of oak in IPAs. Rob Lauriston <robtrish at mindlink.bc.ca> The Low Overhead Brewery Vernon, B. C. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 13:22:46 EST From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at mitre.org> Subject: N2O >I had 2 private e-mails about the N2O comments in #1856 both of which >mentioned that the gas has a sweet taste. I don't know if those gentlemen >will post something themselves but this is certainly worth mentioning. Though my experience is not related to beer, I use N2O cartridges to automatically make whipped cream in a special dispenser. A couple of times in the past I accidentally used a CO2 cartridge, and the bitterness that resulted made me think the cream had gone bad. There is definitely a *huge* taste difference between using CO2 in whipped cream and N20. You do *not* want to taste the CO2-whipped cream. How this applies to beer carbonation I do not know. John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 12:44:45 -0600 From: bratlie at selway.umt.edu (Scott E. Bratlie) Subject: Re: Root Beer > > > I am interested in your root beer recipe. > > 1) What is shilling extract and where can I get it? > 2) Taste: Does it have a true root beer taste or does it have an ale taste >to it? > 3) What is the exact procedure for making it? > > > > Michael Maurice > michael_maurice at aidt.edu > > > > -Shilling is a brand name that I picked up at the local grocery store -My father says it reminds him of the root beer that he had when he was a boy, he's 67. -mix all the ingredients including water and boil for 15 or 20 min. top up to make five gallons when cool add yeast and bottle. I bottled from my bottling bucket. Scott Bratlie Missoula, Montana Bratlie at selway.umt.edu "A nation may lose its liberties in a day and not miss them in a century." Montesquieu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 15:24:46 EST From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at mitre.org> Subject: Using O2 in wort aeration. Lee Bollard brings up an old issue: >O2 is probably quicker, but I've heard it is possible to OVER aerate using >O2. George Fix, in HBD 1446, June 19, 1994 (Yow!), gave us some preliminary results from experiments with using pure O2 to oxygenate: >Dissolved O2 can be hazardous to yeast once DO levels approaches the high >teens (in mg/l). Our results indicate that there is no way such levels >can be reached with beer wort no matter how much O2 is injected. Has anyone heard any more? Dr. Fix's post in HBD 1446 was in anticipation of getting his next book to the publisher by December 1994 (Principles of Brewing Science II. Practical Considerations). Presumably a detailed explanation of what happens when you aerate with O2 would be in there. Did it get published when I wasn't looking (easy to do)? John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 14:27:39 CDT From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) Subject: Betas Jim writes: >The first one was 14.9P and finished at 3.3P, had about 5% Munich and >a lot of CaraMunich and a touch of CaraPils. Mash at 150-148F for one >hour, mash off at 170F, lauter 170. ADA=78%, American Ale yeast. > >Batch 2: same specialties, used Hugh Baird as base instead of DeWolf. >Doughed in at 149F and quickly adjusted with cold water to 145F. This >dropped to 140F over 35 minutes and then was boosted with direct fire to >148F for 20 min, then 170F, lauter. Same yeast. OG=15.9P, FG=3.1P. >ADA=80.5%. > >This shows that the beta amylase rest will have some impact on real degree >of fermentability, but the overall percentage in this example is only >2.5%... Shame on you Jim... you call yourself a scientist ;^). Since you used two different malts, how can you compare the results and blame them on beta-amylase. You may be right, but then you can't really be sure, right? Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 16:45:35 -0400 From: wpw104 at psu.edu (Bill Whittaker) Subject: Egad! There's something growing in my beer! I've been brewing extract beers for about a year now, with varying degrees of success, but this is the first time Iv'e ever encountered what appears to be a white, puffy, cloudlike mold growing on top of my beer in the carboy. What is it? Has anyone ever had this problem? The beer I am making is a simple pale ale. The mold started right after I racked the beer into my secondary. What kind of off flavors should I expect? Could this be due to poor yeast, poor sanitation (I may have gotten a little lax lately) or both? This is my first post, although I've been reading the group for some time now, and I appreceate any suggestions from the more experienced folks in the homebrew world. Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 15:43:47 MDT From: exabyte!smtplink!guym at uunet.uu.net Subject: Washing mead yeast Hello all, I have "washed", saved, and repitched beer yeast for some time now with great results. My question is, can the same safely be done with mead yeast? I see no reason why not other than the generally higher alcohol content of mead versus beer. Would it be better to save it from the primary as well, assuming that the answer to question one is "yes"? One more to make it an even three; how long should the yeast keep if it is refrigerated? I'm almost ashamed to say how long I've kept (and successfully reused) beer yeast. -- Guy McConnell - Huntersville, NC - guym at exabyte.com "I've got this Bank of Bad Habits in the corner of my soul..." Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 13:18:05 CDT From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) Subject: enzymes, temperature and time Steve writes: >Al - I brought out texts to support my point - I don't have your reputation >at HBD. It was also my intent to expand the discussion. I hope you >can find it interesting and enjoyable. Sorry about the overreaction. Your pulling out the big guns kind of walloped me. I do think that it is an interesting discussion and I'll bet that the "truth" is some mix of what we've both posted. I was rather sloppy in my wording and, in fact, the way I wrote it, I was wrong. It's good that you caught it and took the time to check it all out. >>a very active temperature for protease. If not for the action of protease, >>then why mash at 140F/60C? Why not mash at 149F/65C? At this temperature, >>beta amylase activity is higher AND gelatinization is occurring too. > >The tables from Malting and Brewing Science mentioned in my original >post indicate a drop in fermentabilty from around (sorry - I don't >have the text in front of me today) 76% to around 67% as the mash >temperature rises from 60C to 68C. This is a substantial drop and is >of practical concern. The amounts of the various sugars as well as >nitrogen (soluable protein and amino acids) is also substantially >effected over this temperature range. Probably little in terms of amino acids, but indeed medium-sized soluble proteins (head retention and body) are increased in this range. I was aware of this drop in fermentability, but the other part you quoted I had not yet read in MBS: >amylase as a function of temperature. This graph indicates a roughly >three-fold decrease in fermentable product as the temperature rises >from 60C to 63C !! Thankfully mashing an all-grain wort is a much >more forgiving process than this. One problem in reaching an Wow! This is quite a bit more than I had thought. You see, while it seems that your goal is to produce a very fermentable wort, much of my brewing is just the opposite: I'm trying to make a full-bodied, malty bitter that's not too dry from a 1.040 wort. This is why I keep the time at 140F very short (15 min) (actually, I think that I'll drop that to 135F to minimize beta-amylase action even more) and then shoot up to 158F with infusions of boiling water. >I agree that 60C is near the lower end of the practical saccharification >range, but I might consider using an even lower temperature if I had a >large adjunct load and wanted to insure maximum effectiveness of the >beta-amylase available. I'm not so sure that you would want to change your beta-amylase rest temperature based upon adjuncts. You may want to add a beta-glucanase rest if the adjunct is high in beta-glucans and even a 122F rest if you are using something very very high in protein and don't want to make a beer that drinks like wallpaper paste. >So why not mash at 65C ? Quicker denaturing of enzymes and production >of less fermentable wort are the issues. When a highly fermentable >wort is desired or adjuncts dilute the available beta-amylase, then >the lower temperature is certainly called for. Step mashing for the >two amylases may offer better process control as well. Given your quote from MBS on that flour experiment, I think that indeed if you are trying to make a very fermentable wort, 65F is significantly different from 60F. >50-55C for maximal soluble protein AND amino acid production >55-60C for maximal production of non-amino acid soluble protein. Actually (but it's off the top of my head), I believe it's: 45-50C (113F-122F) for maximal amino acid production and 50-60C (122F-140F) for maximal medium-sized soluble proteins (head ret & body). This is why I stay as far from 45-50C as I can when I'm making my Ordinary and Special Bitters: there's only so much protein to go around and if you let the peptidase munch it all down into amino acids, you'll have happy yeast, but watery beer especially with the well-modified British malts I prefer. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at pubs.att.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 16:28:07 CDT From: Paul Sovcik <U18183 at UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU> Subject: Easymasher - an alternative to welding? I have been considering getting a Sanke keg and fitting it with a spigot on the bottom by means of welding as per many brewing articles. However, I was looking at the Easymasher system and noticed that it fits onto a brewpot or keg without requiring a weld - just a washer and a tight fitting. Now I'm thinking - why weld? I'll save some $$ and hassle if I dont. So what is the advantage of welding a spigot on a keg? Why not have a setup like an easymasher? Does the easymasher leak after long use? -Paul PJS at uic.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 18:54 EDT From: cdp at chattanooga.net (C.D. Pritchard) Subject: Re: Pump Aeration Foam Tim Fields <74247.551 at compuserve.com> writes in #1857 about aerating with an aquarium pump: >As the foam comes out of the carboy, it collects in the funnel and I can >periodically scoop it up with my "cleaned and sanitized" hands. Seems to >be no problem with infecting the wort because the foam doesn't "fall back" >into the wort. You're losing wort and aeration by drawing off the foam. The surfaces of the bubbles are where the O2 is absorbed (adsorbed?). I'd stop the pump when the wort started to foam over. Personally, I just shake the hell out of the carboy 2 or 3 times. Haven't had any problems except with underpitched lagers. c.d. pritchard cdp at chattanooga.net C.D. Pritchard cdp at chattanooga.net Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 18:37:32 -0400 From: af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt) Subject: wort coolers necessary? I do not presently use a wort cooler, and I am wondering just how important they are. After cooking, I remove my hops (bagged), cover the pot (cover is reasonably sterile), and let is sit until cool (usually overnight). The trub settles nicely, and I am able to siphon the wort off it easily. No doubt purists will sniff at this procedure (you guys should see how I sparge - but that is another story). In addition to the expense and hassle of using a wort chiller, it occurs to me that bits of trub that will inevitably find their way into the chiller may adhere to the inside of the tubing and be hard to remove (and impossible to see inside copper coils). Trub can adhere to the inside of tubing even at room temperature - I have seen it in my plastic siphon tube - and once it dries, it is tough to remove. What is the common wisdom - am I missing an important step? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 15:53:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Kyle R Roberson <roberson at beta.tricity.wsu.edu> Subject: Balance & SS cleaner I build a balance scale for measuring my grain and malt thus: Hook on the ceiling, chain, 1 inch dowel, hooks on each end (pointing the same direction), two plastic HDPE buckets. Put the hooks on each end of the dowel and mark each end R and L. Put an R and L on the bottom of each bucket. Put the R-bucket on the R-end and L-bucket on the L-end. Find the balance point with a straight edge. Mark and drill a hole to attach the chain. Hang from ceiling. To measure out 3 kilograms of malt, put 3 liters of water in the bucket on the end where the open end of the hook points in. That way it won't slip off as that end drops. Pour malt in the other bucket till it balances. To add 0.5 Kg of munchen malt, add .5 l of water to the water bucket and then add malt to the malt bucket until it balances. In practice, start with the smallest amounts first: crystal, munchener, pils. That way you get big angle changes on small amounts. You can put a bubble level indicator if you want. I just eye-ball it. Consitancy is what's important from batch to batch. I have found that Shower Power will clean beer stone off of stainless steel like magic. It contains phosphoric acid, which is the working agent for beer stone. I clean it very well with B-Brite or other cleaner after rinsing the Shower Power off (very well). Don't leave the SP in there more than a few minutes. It works instantly anyway on stuff that scrubbing with steel wool won't remove. Kyle Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 18:15:10 -0600 (MDT) From: Woodstok <woodstok at rupert.oscs.montana.edu> Subject: [Q] Priming with unfermented wort I've read both Dave Miller's book and Papazian's books. They both mention priming with 'gyle' or unfermented wort. Papazian gives no warnings, Miller cautions against priming by this method with high OG beers. I'm a little confused... I don't know of anyone who has ever tried this, so i'm looking for a little advice from an experienced brewer. I hope this isn't an old, hashed out thread that i missed, if so, just e-mail me in private. Thanks in advance for any advice anyone can give! David !!!!THIS LIFE IS A TEST!!!! This life is only a test, if this had been an actual life you would have received official instructions on where to go and what to do... Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 11:25:59 +-1000 From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au> Subject: hop oils, vegemite beer, hop hazes, beer judging glasses Hello. Hop Oils Can anyone tell me which of linalool and geraniol is the rose-smelling = one? What does the other smell of? ********* Vegemite Beer A very common fault I notice in beer is that it tastes of vegemite. I = taste this character *only* in dark beers. Our scoresheet defines this = as "yeast autolysis" (remember from the vegemite thread that vegemite is = autolyzed yeast guts that some perverts like to spread on their toast = for breakfast) and it is definitely exactly the same flavour (I love = vegemite but cannot stand it in my beer). The trouble is, I don't think = it is due to autolyzed yeast, as - I only ever taste it in dark beers - recently I counter-pressure bottled a bock from my keg. The beer was = crystal clear on bottling and tasted great. 1 month later - vegemite! = There is no yeast that I can see in the bottle. Does anybody know what I am talking about, and if so, do you know what = causes this fault? ********** Hop Hazes I recently made 10 gallons of pilsener which I split into two 5 gallon = batches. Half was dry-hopped with 1oz Saaz pellets, the other with 1oz = Saaz flowers. I have since kegged the beers and both have received = identical treatment and are under refigeration. Both have received = gelatine fining treatment.=20 The flower beer is crystal clear. The pellet beer is hazy, even though I = have almost finished the keg! (I might have expected it to clear a bit = near the end). It looks very much like a chill haze but does not = disappear on warming. So I'll dry hop with flowers only from now on. = Anyone else noticed this effect? *********** Beer Judging Glasses I have been entrusted with buying judging glasses for our club comp this = weekend. As I wanted to get the best type, I sat down the other day with = about 1 dozen glasses to test each type. I used 3 different styles of = beer in each (1 straw lager, 1 dark lager and 1 stout). It was a tough = job, but somebody had to do it! Summaries of each (less than 1 dozen as I tried some slight variations = of each) 7 oz. "middie" beer glass=20 Appearance/colour of beer difficult to tell due to "fat" bottom Easy to "swirl" beer due to largish size Nose was OK Taste was OK 6 oz. red wine glass=20 Appearance/colour of beer difficult to tell due to glass width Swirling beer caused it to slop over sides Nose was OK Taste was OK 6 oz champagne flute Appearance/colour of beer good due to narrow bottom (obvious with = stout) Easy to "swirl" beer due to tall, thin shape and stem on glass Nose was excellent due to shape (mouth of glass just big enough for my = hooter) Taste was OK 5 oz pilsener flute=20 Appearance/colour of beer excellent due to narrow bottom (obvious with = stout) Easy to "swirl" beer due to tall shape and stem on glass Nose was poor due to big, wide neck. Taste was OK So I bought 300 odd champagne flutes! This result quite surprised me as = I have never heard of champagne flutes being used to judge beer before. = What glasses are favoured by HBD readers for judging? Andy Walsh. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 12:42:38 +1000 From: CHARLIE SCANDRETT <merino at ozemail.com.au> Subject: Bottle Conditioning Vs Filtering + Forced carbonation. I don't think any homebrewers pasteurize and filter, so this question is academic to homebrewers. This is a call for information on micro practices and brewing theory. My home brewery is at the workshops going through a series of major gadget refits, so I'm back to partial grain at the moment. The aim of the modifications is that I'm chasing clean beer flavour stability for a micro model. I have to build at least one micro soon for a friend in Russia with a new hotel. The few essential changes I'm making to "normal" micro brewing. 1/ Winowing out most of the malt husks ( 75-85%) at crushing. Including them in a bag at mash, but excluding them at sparge. I'm looking for a massive reduction in phenols. 2/ Steam injection mashing, PID contolled. I'm looking to avoid any possibility of scorching and want rapid movement between accurate repeatable steps. 3/ Sparging with deoxygenated (reverse osmosis) water in a CO2 evacuated environment. Grain bed random stirrers. I am looking to avoid *all* hot side aeration. 4/ Boiling at elevated temperatures (140C) for 2 minutes, boiling at reduced temperatures (80C) for 90 minutes.(by pressure control) A lip on the kettle cone to catch condensation. I am looking to kill all bacteria spores and reduce Maillard and caramelization reactions. 5/Hop back, then fast plate heat exchanger cooling.(8-10 minutes) No air contact. (Hops sanitized) 6/Flotation tank coldbreak separation over ~16 hours at 0C while aerating. Remove some wort for starter. I am looking for complete cold break removal in a hermetically sealed environment Skim cake automatically. 7/ Centrifuge before transfer to fermenter at pitching temperature.. 8/ 6:1 pitching ratio (volume wort) and further aeration for 2 hours. Fermenter cone is colder to preserve floculated yeast. (Yes warming home fermenters from the bottom *is* a problem.) The temperature/fermentatuion profile is microprocessor controlled. Diacetyl rest at higher temperature for 12 hours. 9/ Other modifications are controlled environment hop and malt storage. Hop, water and bottle air analysis lab. YEAST is a powerful reducer (i.e. prevents oxidation and therefore staling), but over time floculated yeast autolysizes and produces off flavours. Now the less floculant strains ferment easier and more completely but are more difficult to seperate. Because of routine thermal abuse in transport almost all megabreweries thoroughly filter out all yeast and pastuerize. Modern "Ice" beer is simply a filtering improvement that eliminates the need for heat pastuerization. Water is added back to replace the icicle surounded particles of protein haze and yeast that are removed. I propose to use whatever yeast/yeasts needed in primary and secondary. a/ At a set SG, close the fermenter to naturally carbonate with the back pressure. (This is normal practice.) b/ The chosen SG wll only partially reach the desired carbonation level. (about 80%) This is to minimize the addition of Krausen priming and the resulting sediment which might autolysize. Bottle carbonating only a small proportion reduces the possibility of gross errors in carbonation from this process. c/ At the end of secondary, the beer will be gently filtered to a bright beer tank. A Krausen priming is added after it has finished respiration. This is to avoid the contact of oxygen and beer. d/ The Krausening will use a highly floculant, warm-fermenting yeast like Wyeast 2112 (lagers), or Wyeast 1338 (ales). This is to produce a thin compact sediment, tolerant of thermal abuse. e/ Counter pressure bottle filling at 0C into CO2 pre-evacuated, sanitized, cold bottles. f/ The six packs of packaged beer may be centifuged on a continous carosell after conditioning, to further compact the sediment if necessary. Transportation to store in cold truck. I think the stable sediment would be a marketing plus, clearly differentiating "real beer" from filtered and pastuerized beer. If this preserves hop aroma and flavour for months, the consistant fresh flavour is also a marketing advantage. THE BIG QUESTION IS; Will the reducing power of the presence of yeast be a greater plus in flavour freshness preservation than the possible production of off flavours by autolysis or shock excretion from thermal abuse? I don't want to spend a year brewing experiments to find out, if expert advice can solve this now. What are European bottle conditioning practices? Coopers in Australia produces several bottle conditioned ales with Adelaide Ale yeast. This doesn't floculate very highly and often doesn't travel all the way to Queensland very well. All their carbonation (which is high) comes from bottle conditioning. One more question; Why use oxygen scavenging tops if you have oxygen scavenging yeast? It seems to me that yeast during respiration can practically deoxygenate water saturated with O2 at 8mg/litre. Don't sugar primed bottles start respiration again or does the yeast just sleepily continue secondary fermentation? How efective are these caps? This must seem heavy metal gadgetry for homebrewing. I am trying to take a homebrewer's attitude towards absolute quality into commercial craft brewing. Any other design suggestions? Charlie (Brisbane, Queensland, Australia) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 22:03:19 -0500 From: Mark Thompson <mthompso at mail.utexas.edu> Subject: Sassafras Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> writes: >Last I read, about 4 years ago, it was not illegal to sell, but it had to be >marked as "not edible" or something like that. A few years before that, it >was quite popular as an herbal tea. It turned out to be highly carcinogenic, >if memory serves correctly. I used to buy it at a health food store, and one >time the jar was marked "not fit for human consumption". (Several other jars >were also thusly marked, mostly stuff they geared towards people who were >making potpourri, as far as I could tell.) Later, when I went back there, the >jar was no longer marked "Not fit..." and I asked, and the guy there said that >it was specially processed to remove the toxins. I can verify that is not illegal to sell sassafras. Having lived a good portion of my life in Louisiana I have had my fair share of file' gumbo. The file' is actually nothing more than ground sassafras leaves. On the jar I have in front of me right now, there is no warning whatsoever nor is there any mention of any processing done to the sassafras. On a beer related note, file' has an aroma very similar to hops. I used some in a Pale Ale and it came out very good. I couldn't discern the file', but it didn't detract from the beer at all. Mark Thompson, Austin Texas, <mthompso at mail.utexas.edu> Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 06:39:15 -0500 From: zentner at combination.com (Michael G. Zentner) Subject: Grain Mills, Secret Ingredients, and Wort Chiller Construction It has been a long time since I've posted here. I have a question which undoubtedly has been touched upon several times but for which I missed the answers in the digest, and two anciently posted ideas in exchange for answers to my question. 1. Roller Mills. I see now that there is something called the "Valley Mill" in the commercial fray with other malt mills. Can someone provide me with a summary, either via regular email, or a digest post, as to experiences with individual or multiple mills? I want to buy one, but don't know what to choose. I will admit that the recent posting of the cement roller mill is intrigueing and appealing from an artistic standpoint (maybe I could power it by hitching up my dog and making him run in circles!). Thanks if anyone can help. 2. "Secret" ingredients. For those who haven't been for more than 3 years or so, my wife had an incredible Apple Ale by adding a certain quantity of "Red Hot" candies. It really turned out well and matured nicely over 1.5-2 years, at which point it was sadly gone. 3. Wort Chillers. As always in my posts, my plans for counterflow wort chiller construction are available online simply by mailing me a request. Thanks, Mike Zentner Advanced Process Combinatorics, Inc. zentner at combination.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 08:28:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Bender <benderec at ttown.apci.com> Subject: Oxygen injection Todd A Darroch writes: >While touring a micro brewery, I saw a large tank of oxygen...The >brewmasters reply was that the wort is injected with it after its chilled >and "prior" to pitching. Do we all need to go to our local gas supplier? Todd, The latest issue of "Brewing Techniques" has a excellent article for homebrewers on wort aeration, indicating that most homebrewers do not get an adequate amount of disolved O2 into their wort. The article describes several ways to improve upon this and also list numbers on the recomended amount (ppm) of O2 that should be in wort. I have purchased a gadget called the Oxynater, which comes with a small cylinder of pure oxygen, some tubing, and a S.S. areation stone. I have yet to use it as my first batch of the year is scheduled for early Nov. But I expect good results and improved H-brew. If you need further information on either B.T. Or the Oxynater, E-mail me privately. Now a question of my own if I could. I was planning on pitching first and then aerating with the Oxynater several times over the next 1-3 Hrs? as I also like to let the trub settle out before I rack to the primary fermenter. Must pitching come "after" areation? I always thought to pitch as soon as cooldown was complete and then areate at the same time. TIA, Eric (benderec at ttown.apci.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 08:42:04 -0400 From: Mike Morgan <morgan at aavid.com> Subject: CABERNET SAUVIGNON ALE In an attempt to make a "Sweet Blueberry Ale" I formulated a recipe to include a can of "Blueberry Wine Base" to take advantage of what I had available. In the bed of my pickup truck I preserved (a.k.a you just might be a redneck) a can of Blueberry Wine Base & a can of Cabernet Sauvignon Wine Base. These cans kicked around for over 2 years. The labels were gone, surface rust on the cans, they looked REALLY bad. There was NO WAY to tell which was the Blueberry. Being a statistical type of guy, i realized that I had a 50 / 50 chance of picking the Blueberry but....... being a PRACTICAL type of guy, I tried to get the wife to pick. If she was wrong at least I had someone to blame. She did'nt fall for that one. It was MY choice. I picked the one I thought was the Blueberry. When opening it seemed to SMELL like Blueberry...it seemed to TASTE like Blueberry. I fermented it in my recipe. A week later.....I racked it into the secondary and added 2 lbs of frozen Blueberries. Well it did'nt TASTE like Blueberry. You guessed it CABERNET SAUVIGNON ALE. Now its kegged... taste pretty good....kinda like that KRIEK BEER only with a taste of the world's finest wine grapes. I think I'll send this one to the SAM ADAMS WORLD BEER CONTEST. I know it will be original. morgan at aavid.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ m O R G A N m O R G A N m O R G A N m O R G A N ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Return to table of contents
Date: 18 Oct 1995 06:06:06 PDT From: "Wallinger, W. A." <WAWA at chevron.com> Subject: frig vs freezer From: Wallinger, W. A. (Wade) To: OPEN ADDRESSING SERVI-OPENADDR Subject: frig vs freezer Date: 1995-10-18 07:56 Priority: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jay writes: >I'm ready to invest in a brewing fridge. I've seen some of you mention >that you use a chest-type frezzer - others use an upright refridgerator. >What are the pros/cons of each? I intended to use my beer frig for kegs, but I was only able to get two kegs in the frig, and they displaced all my bottles. I was fortunate enough to find someone who was disposing of their old chest freezer at no charge (other than transportation, ;-)), and now use this for kegs, lagering, even bottle storage. The main advantage I find is the number of kegs or carboys it can hold (6) for about the same volume of cooler space. The downside is that you must invest in a temperature controller, and the chest freezer has a larger footprint. I had one incident with my Hunter Airstat where it went kaput in the 'on' position. Fortunately, I discovered the problem before I ended up with 5 gallon popsicles, but the risk is always there. My frig has a freezer, too, so that may provide some advantages as well. The bottom line for me is that, although I find having both to be beneficial, I would give up the frig if I had to choose between them. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 95 06:17:50 pst From: rbarnes at sdccd.cc.ca.us Subject: ALUMINUM SUMMARY I received numerous responses to my aluminum pot and overnight mashing questions last week. Thanks to all. In summary: 1. Several indicated that the overnight mash might lead to bacterial infections that would not be eliminated during the boil. One suggested that I should mash and sparge at night, then boil the next morning. Any other experiences? 2. Aluminum and Alzheimers is probably a non-issue. Several frequent posters to the HBD boil and/or mash in aluminum pots with no problems. Also, two people mentioned that the Jan/Feb issue of Brewing Techniques had an article on using aluminum pots in brewing and found that the amounts of aluminum leached into the wort were negligible. Greg Walz in HB 1859 tells of problems with having a drain welded to his aluminum pot. Since I would like to weld (heliarc) or otherwise affix a drain to aluminum, anyone have recommendations on doing this? 3. Regarding the attachment of a drain to an enamel on steel pot, one person said "don't do it," another said he'd done it and sealed the chipped edges with food-grade aquarium silicone sealer. Works in a boiling pot with no problems. I seem to remember seeing a special paint for fixing chipped washing machine or dryer tubs, but I'm not sure it would work in a boiling kettle. Thanks to all who replied publicly and privately. Randy Barnes, San Diego Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 09:34:07 -0400 From: Mike Morgan <morgan at aavid.com> Subject: CABERNET SAUVIGNON ALE In an attempt to make a "Sweet Blueberry Ale" I formulated a recipe to include a can of "Blueberry Wine Base" to take advantage of what I had available. In the bed of my pickup truck I preserved (a.k.a you just might be a redneck) a can of Blueberry Wine Base & a can of Cabernet Sauvignon Wine Base. These cans kicked around for over 2 years. The labels were gone, surface rust on the cans, they looked REALLY bad. There was NO WAY to tell which was the Blueberry. Being a statistical type of guy, i realized that I had a 50 / 50 chance of picking the Blueberry but....... being a PRACTICAL type of guy, I tried to get the wife to pick. If she was wrong at least I had someone to blame. She did'nt fall for that one. It was MY choice. I picked the one I thought was the Blueberry. When opening it seemed to SMELL like Blueberry...it seemed to TASTE like Blueberry. I fermented it in my recipe. A week later.....I racked it into the secondary and added 2 lbs of frozen Blueberries. Well it did'nt TASTE like Blueberry. You guessed it CABERNET SAUVIGNON ALE. Now its kegged... taste pretty good....kinda like that KRIEK BEER only with a taste of the world's finest wine grapes. I think I'll send this one to the SAM ADAMS WORLD BEER CONTEST. I know it will be original. morgan at aavid.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ m O R G A N m O R G A N m O R G A N m O R G A N ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 09:36:15 -0400 From: Mike Morgan <morgan at aavid.com> Subject: CABERNET SAUVIGNON ALE In an attempt to make a "Sweet Blueberry Ale" I formulated a recipe to include a can of "Blueberry Wine Base" to take advantage of what I had available. In the bed of my pickup truck I preserved (a.k.a you just might be a redneck) a can of Blueberry Wine Base & a can of Cabernet Sauvignon Wine Base. These cans kicked around for over 2 years. The labels were gone, surface rust on the cans, they looked REALLY bad. There was NO WAY to tell which was the Blueberry. Being a statistical type of guy, i realized that I had a 50 / 50 chance of picking the Blueberry but....... being a PRACTICAL type of guy, I tried to get the wife to pick. If she was wrong at least I had someone to blame. She did'nt fall for that one. It was MY choice. I picked the one I thought was the Blueberry. When opening it seemed to SMELL like Blueberry...it seemed to TASTE like Blueberry. I fermented it in my recipe. A week later.....I racked it into the secondary and added 2 lbs of frozen Blueberries. Well it did'nt TASTE like Blueberry. You guessed it CABERNET SAUVIGNON ALE. Now its kegged... taste pretty good....kinda like that KRIEK BEER only with a taste of the world's finest wine grapes. I think I'll send this one to the SAM ADAMS WORLD BEER CONTEST. I know it will be original. morgan at aavid.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ m O R G A N m O R G A N m O R G A N m O R G A N ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1861, 10/19/95