HOMEBREW Digest #1878 Wed 08 November 1995

Digest #1877 Digest #1879

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  propane and carbon monoxide (Rob Lauriston)
  Ooops! I'm sorry. (Harlan Bauer)
  Convert an IPA to Christmas ale (Anthony Migliore)
  Re;   Burnt Crud ("David W. Parkin")
  Mashing Overnight... ("Bessette, Bob")
  temperature calculations ("Dulisse, Brian")
  Wyeast ("Tracy Aquilla")
  Bad Pumps/How to Oxygenate a 6 bbl Run (Kirk R Fleming)
  Corn starch in the mash (Delano Dugarm 36478)
  Calling Mr. (Vanilla) Bean (TrubRacker)
  Corn Starch (Peter Thomford)
  RE: Gravity of Bottled Beer (Neal Christensen)
  Samuel Adams/mega-microbrewer ("Michael R. Swan")
  San Diego (Todd Kirby)
  Mash Agitation ("Richard Scotty")
  Re: Wyeast and perceived problems (Jeff Frane)
  adelscott beer (HOMEBRE973)
  Thanks to ALL HBD'ers (kdschida)
  Additional CDO HC Winners (Fred Hardy)
  Hung over (Stephbrown)
  Lead in Glass Carboys (Douglas A. McCullough)
  1996 Bay Area Brewoff (Bob Jones)
  Home Roasted Malt (Wyss1364)
  Homebrew Digest #1877 (November 07, 1995) -Reply (Alan Deaton)
  Avoiding stuck sparge suggestions? (Mike Dowd)
  Sparge pH/the big three (Algis R Korzonas)
  pumps and wort (LARSEN_JIM)
  Re: "Fine Beer" (Al Stevens)
  re: Trappists (Algis R Korzonas)
  Iodophor Summary (Tim Fields)
  Grain Mills ("Tracy Aquilla")
  re: Wheat beer question (Eric W. Miller)
  re: Irish Moss (Eric W. Miller)
  wheat beer and tannins ("Bob Hall" )
  Re: Bathing (Pierre Jelenc)
  Uncl: Airlock Fluid and Suck Back ("Calvin Perilloux")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 04:00 PST From: robtrish at mindlink.bc.ca (Rob Lauriston) Subject: propane and carbon monoxide While I voted 'yes' to proposition propane earlier, I am having second thoughts and I'd like to echo Frank Dobner. >Honestly, the subject of propane use indoors is one that I am glad >remember to treat propane with a lot of respect. I also use propane >indoors and I think I do all the right things. If you get sick of these >propane posts, think of them as a "wake-up call." >"It takes a very careful brewer to be extremely dangerous." I don't think I paid nearly enough attention to the danger of carbon monoxide poisoning. Perhaps that's because the guy who turned me on to propane said he had never had any problems. But at the time he said that, we were brewing in his basement with the window only open a crack and I was getting dizzy and nauseous. You never know with the "I've never had any problems" posts. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 06:42:33 -0600 From: blacksab at siu.edu (Harlan Bauer) Subject: Ooops! I'm sorry. Ooops! Well, guess I was wrong, methane is NOT also heavier than air. I'm terribly sorry for posting false information, and thanks to all who corrected me. For some reason, I thought there were more carbon molecules in Methane than there are. Feeling kind of stupid, Harlan ***************************************************************************** * * * Harlan Bauer ...malt does more than Milton can * * <blacksab at siu.edu> To justify God's ways to man. * * Carbondale, IL --A.E. Houseman * * * **************************************************************************** * Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 08:37:24 -0500 From: Anthony Migliore <MIGLIORE at novell.nadn.navy.miL> Subject: Convert an IPA to Christmas ale I have a five gallon corny keg of an IPA which is just starting to get good. Before I drink it all, is it possible to convert this patch to a Christmas Ale? Can I just dump in (ala dry hop) some clove, nutmeg, cinnamon, etc? If I can do this, how much and what kind of spice should I try? Anthony Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 08:17:52 -0600 From: "David W. Parkin" <dwparkin at mmm.com> Subject: Re; Burnt Crud >After fifty or so batches (extract based) I had a strange experience on >my last batch. A nice black ring of burnt crud (sugars) on the bottom of >my 15 gal keg boiler. >Question: How do I get rid of this stuff? I have had the same question/experiance on my brew pot using the stove. I use to go after the burnt crud with chemical and mechanical weapons but found that to be a lot of work. Then one time I left a brew pot out over night (forgot to clean - too late and too much homebrew while cooking) and in the morning, the burnt crud had pealed away and could be flicked off the pot. Now if I have any scourching, I clean the pot (rinse) and leave it for the next day to clean. I must note that all of the crud doesn't come off but most will. DWP Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 95 06:31:00 PST From: "Bessette, Bob" <bob.bessette at lamrc.com> Subject: Mashing Overnight... Fellow HBDers, I've been reading a lot lately about mashing overnight and then sparging, etc in the AM. This would make some sense for me in that I could, after the kids go to bed, set up and start the mash, and then go to bed myself. I would then get up early and complete the mashout, sparging, boiling, chilling, pitching, etc. As a result it would only take me approximately 3 hours in the AM rather than 5 hours all at once. Obviously after a few hours my mash temperatures will no doubt be below 150F. What adverse effects could this have on my brew? The more I read about it the more attractive the idea sounds. I may try this this weekend. I would welcome your comments, warnings, etc. TIA... Bob Bessette bob.bessette at lamrc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 95 10:14:00 EST From: "Dulisse, Brian" <bbd4 at CIPCOD1.EM.CDC.GOV> Subject: temperature calculations is there a formula for calculating the volume/temperature of infusions? for example, if i have x pounds of malt at temperature w, and add y gallons of water at temperature z, what is the temperature at which the mixture will stabilize? or, if i have x pounds of malt and y gallons of water mixed together at temperature z, how much boiling water is necessary to move the mass to a temperature z+a? i'd guess this is simply a problem of knowing the specific heat of malt . . . ? tia bd Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 10:27:09 CST From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu> Subject: Wyeast In digest # 1796: Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 20:00:52 -0600 From: blacksab at siu.edu (Harlan Bauer) Subject: WYEAST Harlan says: >There's been a bit of talk lately about Wyeast, and I suppose readers should >be reminded that Wyeast was caught selling Brettanomyces yeast (that's how >the package was labeled) when in fact the package contained mostly Ale >yeast. The homebrewer who pointed this out and posted on Lambic Digest was >threatened with law suit and forced to publically recant. Wyeast has since >changed the package, basically admitting that said homebrewer was correct. >So don't expect Wyeast to be forthcoming about any real or percieved >problems with their products. [snip] There's always more than one side to every story. Without getting into a raging debate over this issue, I'd like to make some suggestions for those having "perceived problems" with their yeast. First of all, considering the issue of liability/defamation, I doubt if it's wise (or responsible) to post unsubstantiated claims like this to r.c.b or the digest (or to spread rumors by repeating hearsay). Publicly questioning the quality of their products and/or their sense of business ethics probably won't solve your problem, but it is likely to land you in court! Secondly, if you question the quality of your yeast package, you should probably try to return it to the supplier from whom you purchased it. They should replace it and take up the issue of quality control with the manufacturer, thereby making you a happy customer. If you found a rat carcass in your Cheerios, would you return the offending box of parts to the grocery store for a replacement, or call General Mills? Why should yeast be any different than any of the thousands of other products we consume every day? Tracy in Vermont aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 07:34:08 -0700 From: flemingk at usa.net (Kirk R Fleming) Subject: Bad Pumps/How to Oxygenate a 6 bbl Run Wort Pumps: In #1876 James Hojel <JTroy at msn.com> said he talked to a Belgian brewmaster who claimed > using gravity is much more gentle on wort/beer and will produce better > tasting and more stable beer (less damage on compounds, etc.??) than a > centrifugal pump. I mentioned that I use a pump for wort recirculation > and to pump between kegs (Pico System). He warned me against it; > especially at the home-brew level. I know the pumps we use (March, Teel, etc) are primitive paddle-wheel type centrifugal pumps, but all the brewhouse pumps I've seen are just centrifugal units too, although I assume they have the more sophisticated laminar flow fins in them. Cavitation in the paddle wheel pumps is common (at least in mine). Before I jump thru a bunghole to redesign my system I wonder if anyone has any experience to corroborate the claim, or can speculate as to what effect beating the crap out of the wort thru a pump has on the final product. For a continuously recirculating system this could be a big deal, and if it really is a big deal, do you think a peristaltic (sp?) pump would be a candidate solution. Oxygenating Large Volumes of Wort: I would greatly appreciate any tips you may have for oxygenation of 6 bbls of wort in a Grundy (wort has a 1:1 aspect ratio). Info on airstone products, oxygen pressure and duration of the process is needed. I plan to fit three or four of the sintered ss airstones to a manifold and increase oxygen pressure until I can see the airstones producing bubbles over a maximum of their surface areas. Since I can't see this in the actual system, I'd do it in shallow wort then compensate for the depth-of-tank head. Any ideas? KRF Colorado Springs - ------------------------------------------------------------------ "Frig is not an appliance, it is an activity." Rolland Everitt - ------------------------------------------------------------------ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 15:10:47 +0000 (GMT) From: Delano Dugarm 36478 <ADUGARM at worldbank.org> Subject: Corn starch in the mash David Seldon asks about using corn starch in an all-grain pale ale. I've mashed both corn starch and tapioca starch with no significant problems. In both cases the starch was about 20% of the mash. The best way I've found to avoid large starch globules is to mix the starch well with the crushed malt *before* doughing in. I always add liquid to solid, and this might be more important with starch than with regular malt. 6-row malt converts the starch very quickly, but 2-row does fine as well. The only difficulty I've found in using starch is that the starch will tend to scorch if I use direct heat to boost the mash from protein rest to saccharification rest. This being said, I do not think that starch is a very good adjunct to use in a pale ale. It leaves a very neutral taste, and I much prefer the grainy sweetness that flaked maize gives to pale ales. Starch does make a nice, dry cream ale, though. The best discussions of adjuncts are an article by George Fix in the 1985 _zymurgy_ All-Grain Issue and Wahl and Henius _American Handy Book of the Brewing, Malting and Auxiliary Trades_, Chicago, 1908. I've been experimenting with all sorts of adjuncts, and will eventually post some results. Delano "Adjunct Boy" DuGarm Arlington, VA adugarm at worldbank.org Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 11:07:47 -0500 From: TrubRacker at aol.com Subject: Calling Mr. (Vanilla) Bean Greetings to the Collective from a longtime lurker and first time poster ! Ques: Have any of you had experience w/vanilla bean? Specifically, yesterday I brewed a Russian Imperial Oatmeal Stout and would like to add Vanilla to the already lengthy nom de plume. ( OG 1090) I did not add the vanilla to the boil fearful that the aromatics would be driven off. My options now, as I see them, are to "dry bean" or to add some vanilla " tea" to either the primary or secondary. ( Secondary seems a better bet). Also, would the bean need to be ground or minced or added whole? How much is too much? Etc., etc., etc. ..... Any suggestions, hopefully based on experience, would be greatly appreciated. Andy Udalovas TrubRacker at aol.com "Anything worth doing is worth overdoing" Since hemmoroids occur on your ass, Why aren't they called Assteroids? Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 12:09 EST From: Peter Thomford <PThomfor_+a_HAZTRXMA_+lPeter_Thomford+r%Hazleton_Wisconsin at mcimail.com> Subject: Corn Starch Text item: Text_1 In #1876 David Selden writes: <I have a recipe - from Papazian's book that calls for a ton of corn starch, <12 -16 oz? Is this a typo or do I need to dump this liquid thickening <stuff in my allgrain batch. What is its effect on the brew? Should <I be using this pale ale recipe for my first allgrain batch? I assume that you are referring to the Amaizing Pale Ale recipe. I have used this several times with up to 2 lb. of corn starch. This has worked for me quite well. OG and FG has been about as expected, (i.e. not gravy) -Peter Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 10:49:22 -0700 From: nealc at selway.umt.edu (Neal Christensen) Subject: RE: Gravity of Bottled Beer Derrick Pohl asked about measuring gravity of carbonated beer. A brewer friend told me that carbonation does affect the reading. I took his word on it, but have not experimented. When he tests his carbonated beer, he lets it perculate through a paper lab filter first to remove the CO2. It needs to be a slow perc to do the job. Three coffee filters together will work about like a lab paper filter - maybe run through twice. Neal Christensen Missoula - A Place Sort Of Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 13:43:20 GMT (Original EST) From: "Michael R. Swan" <mswan at fdic.gov> Subject: Samuel Adams/mega-microbrewer * In HBD #1876, Ken Schroeder (kens at lan.nsc.com) writes about megabreweries: >Bill tells the story of how Jim Kock and Sam Adams son medals art GABF. Good >story I might add. To me SA is a big brewer, maybe the biggest of the craft >brew companies. Siera Nevada is also big. Both these companies produce good "Maybe the biggest" is a bit of an understatement when applied to Samuel Adams. I just got my Prospectus for The Boston Beer Company initial public stock offering. In the Prospectus, the Company states, "Boston Beer is the largest craft brewer by volume in the United States. . . In 1994, the Company sold 714,000 barrels of beer, which it believes to be more than the next six largest craft brewers combined." ^^^^^^^^ Mike Swan Dallas, Texas Standard disclaimers apply ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "I broke their code, but I fell into the trap they intended, the trap of a code devised to be broken. I took no pride in my rebellion, I took it as guilt, I did not damn them, I damned myself, I did not damn their code, I damned existence - and I hid my happiness as a shameful secret." Ayn Rand ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 14:06:30 -0500 (EST) From: Todd Kirby <mkirby at isnet.is.wfu.edu> Subject: San Diego Hello Collective, I'm going to a Neuroscience conference in San Diego next week and was wondering if there are some brewpubs, etc. that I just HAVE to visit. Anyone have any recommendations? Thanks, Todd Kirby Return to table of contents
Date: 6 Nov 1995 14:29:34 -0700 From: "Richard Scotty" <richard_scotty at msmgate.mrg.uswest.com> Subject: Mash Agitation I've recently aquired a new mash tun made from a converted keg. This past weekend, I ran it through its paces with an ESB and while there was no scorching of the mash as a result of adding heat, the mash required virtually constant stirring to maintain uniform temperature and avoid scorching. So now, I've embarked on a small engineering exercise to add mechanical stirring to this system. I have access to a variety of gear motors with various rpm and torque ratings, but I'm having difficulty finding an appropriate device for this motor to turn. I've seen several paint stirrers, but they are of the painted steel variety and unsuitable for use in the mash. I've also found a mixer designed for use with wallboard coumpound. This unit is zinc plated (not galvanized - it has a soft goldish color to it). Does anyone know what the result of using this device might be? Short of custom fabrication, has anyone else approached and hopefully solved this problem? I have read the various RIMS threads, but I believe that stirring will still be necessary with re-circulation. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Private email is fine - I'll summarize and post if there is sufficient interest. Richard Scotty - Chief Mash Mucker - The Crapshoot Brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 15:05:53 -0800 From: jfrane at teleport.com (Jeff Frane) Subject: Re: Wyeast and perceived problems >From: blacksab at siu.edu (Harlan Bauer) >Subject: WYEAST > >There's been a bit of talk lately about Wyeast, and I suppose readers should >be reminded that Wyeast was caught selling Brettanomyces yeast (that's how >the package was labeled) when in fact the package contained mostly Ale >yeast. The homebrewer who pointed this out and posted on Lambic Digest was >threatened with law suit and forced to publically recant. Wyeast has since >changed the package, basically admitting that said homebrewer was correct. >So don't expect Wyeast to be forthcoming about any real or percieved >problems with their products. I'm not saying there ARE any problems with >1056, I'm simply suggesting that if there are any problems with it, you're >probably not going to hear about it from Wyeast. > The situation concerning Wyeast and "the homebrewer" (let's call him "X") was considerably more complicated than you probably know, or than X was willing to mention on the net. Let us just say that before you shoot off your virtual mouth, try speaking directly with Dave Logsdon on the issue. The informational literature available from Wyeast to all retailers has always, as I recall, been pretty clear that the Brett. package was a blend of several yeast strains, a blend that had been put together by Wyeast, not to defraud anyone (and why would they?), but to ensure better performance than initial single strains. If you believe the last sentence, it's clear that you've never had any direct dealings with Wyeast, and that you're not associated with any retailer. In the past, whenever there have been any problems with their yeasts, Wyeast has not only replaced them for customers, but recalled them from retailers. In the past, Wyeast was notified by homebrewers that there were some problems with slow performances by 1056, they traced the problem down to a mutation, and the problem was corrected. If anyone is having a problem with any Wyeast strain, they should contact their retailer, or even call Wyeast directly. Contrary to some people's opinions, Wyeast didn't get to be the leader in the field by being huge, they got there by hard work, quality merchandise, and by responding to customer requests. And, please, before you malign *any* producer, wholesaler, retailer, whatever in the homebrewing field, get your facts straight first, folks. - --Jeff Frane Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 17:27:16 -0500 From: HOMEBRE973 at aol.com Subject: adelscott beer I recently tasted a beer called Adel Scott Malt Liquor. It was quite alcohol, slightly smoked, and quite nice as a sipping beer. It was brewed by Fischer D'Alsace. Anyone know anything more about this beer. Andy Kligerman Hillsborough, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 13:31:02 PST From: kdschida at vines.dsd.litton.com Subject: Thanks to ALL HBD'ers Some of you might have known about, and participated in the Virtual Village Homebrew Society's "NetWort I" competition this past Saturday, Nov. 4th, on CompuServe. Well, I've been a homebrewer now for about a year and a half with only 11 batches under my belt (literally, just ask my wife); the last one just bottled two weeks ago which was my first all-grainer, and when Ralph Colaizzi mentioned this competition in HBD #1849, I thought... what the heck? To make a long story short, I sent in my first try at a stout, and WON 1ST PLACE in the combined category "Porters and Stouts". I knew it tasted good to me, but I was AMAZED at my placing, not expecting to even get a ribbon at all, much less 1ST PLACE!! I basically just wanted to say thanks to EVERYBODY here on the HBD for all the knowledge I gain being a 95 percent lurker, 5 percent participant. Special thanks to Dr. Dave Harsh for his personal help on this particular brew that I sent in to the competition (Can Ya' believe it Dave, that "Colorado Crankcase Stout" WON!). I've been getting HBD for the majority of time I've been brewing, and it's paid off. Maybe I'll get off my duff & join in discussions more often, and perhaps I'll learn even more. Kurt Dschida 76132.733 at compuserve.com or kdschida at vines.dsd.litton.com I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 21:00:06 -0500 (EST) From: Fred Hardy <fcmbh at access.digex.net> Subject: Additional CDO HC Winners Ooops! ADDITIONAL CAPITOL DISTRICT OPEN AWARDS Because of the large number of entries in the American Ale Category (30) and the even distribution among the three subcategories - 10 each in American Pale Ale, American-style IPA and American Brown, the organizing committee decided to award 3 second place ribbons in this category. First place overall went to an American Brown. Omitted from the original announcement was the top American Pale Ale (George Fix) and the top American-style IPA (Delano DuGarm). Both will receive a second place ribbon. The organizing committee is also considering making each a separate category for the 1996 CDO HC. My apologies and congratulations to George and Delano. Fred ============================================================================== We must invent the future, else it will | <Fred Hardy> happen to us and we will not like it. | [Stafford Beer, "Platform for Change"] | email: fcmbh at access.digex.net Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 21:47:01 -0500 From: Stephbrown at aol.com Subject: Hung over I have noticed the tendency to sometimes get violently ill on half the beer that I can other times drink without any problems. I have also noted two factors that seem to be tied to it. Factor #1: If I am under-hydrated before I start drinking, I get sick. I try to always drink a lot of water throughout the day BEFORE I start drinking. It helps to drink water afterwards too, but it is more important to drink it before. Factor #2: The kinds and qualities of beer that I am drinking. I am not very tolorant of Bud (sorry to the big three supporters out there) and the like. On the other hand, I can drink homebrew until I fall down, and when I wake up I'm ready to drink some more - after a few glasses of water, of course. I would also like to hear other people's theories on the reasons for this strange phenomenon. Cheers, Stephen Brown "Ich kann besseres Bier trinken, wenn ich schon 5 Bier getrunken habe." Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 23:23:39 -0600 From: dmccull at alabama.com (Douglas A. McCullough) Subject: Lead in Glass Carboys A fellow at Alabama Scientific Supply recently expressed concern about lead in the glass carboys some local brewers use. The carboys, manufactured in Mexico and offered for sale for about $12 at locally at Waccamaw, have a pronounced blue-green tint. He suggests that the tint indictes a lead content so high that beer, leaching it out, would contain unacceptable lead levels. He feels that those carboys were made for filling with pennies, not foodstuffs. Didn't lead poisoning cause Nero to burn Rome? Any comments? (On lead, not my knowledge of history. What do you expect from an engineer?) Doug McCullough Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 1995 21:41:25 +0800 From: Bob Jones <bjones at bdt.com> Subject: 1996 Bay Area Brewoff The Tenth Annual Bay Area Brewoff is scheduled for January 20, 1996 at Lyon's Brewery Depot in Dublin, Ca. and is hosted by the Draught Board Homebrew club. The catagories are as follows : India Pale Ale Pale Ale Bock Porter Dry Stout Barley Wine/Wheat wine Holiday Beer Mead For additional entry information please send me an email. Thanks, Bob Jones in Alamo, Calif. bjones at bdt.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 00:54:29 -0500 From: Wyss1364 at aol.com Subject: Home Roasted Malt I've followed the roasted malt thread and I don't think anyone has mentioned the very concise instructions by Geoff Cooper for making it which are available from two sources: An Introduction to Old British Beers and How to Make Them By Dr. John Harrison or on the web Beer Technical Library at http://alpha.rollanet.org/library/roastmaltGC.html I've used this technique 4 times with great results. Twice to make amber malt and twice to make brown malt. The best results have been from the brown malt. The porters are(were) smooth and creamy after 3 weeks in the keg, with no harsh bitterness as mentioned by some posters. Brown malt accounted for 20% of the grist. My best guess is that the drying period used in this procedure helps to to reduce over carmelazation of the malt sugars and any nasty bitterness. Many of the recipes in Harrison's book call for long aging times which I think are due to high SG rather than use of roasted malt or high hopping rates. Don't give up on home roasted malt. It's just one more element of control over your finished beer that allows you to give it your mark. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 02:38:57 -0600 From: Alan Deaton <amdeaton at gw.hyatt.com> Subject: Homebrew Digest #1877 (November 07, 1995) -Reply I will be out of the office from Monday, 11/6 thru Tuesday 11/7. If your problem is an urgent one, please contact Mark Herman. /Alan Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 03:39:45 -0500 From: mdost3+ at pitt.edu (Mike Dowd) Subject: Avoiding stuck sparge suggestions? This weekend, I brewed a Weizenbock, using the recipe in Eric Warner's _German Wheat Beer_. The decoction mash (my first) was no problem, I actually enjoyed it, but the sparge stuck like crazy and generally made my life hell for far too long. I was wondering if anyone had any advice for avoiding this sort of thing in the future, since I would like to try making more wheat beers someday. Some details: I use an EasyMasher in my 5 gallon mashtun for lautering, I crush the grain with a (non-adjustable) Malt Mill, the recipe had 6 pounds of German wheat, 4 pounds of Munich, and 5 ounces of Special B (since I couldn't find dark Munich). Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mike p.s. In honor of the nightmarish aspects of making this beer, I'm calling it Franz Kafka Weizenbock. Michael Dowd "I could be mistaken. Maybe it was another Slippery Slope Research bald-headed jigsaw-puzzle tattooed naked University of Pittsburgh guy I saw." mdost3+ at pitt.edu -Fox Mulder Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 13:25:12 CST From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) Subject: Sparge pH/the big three Russ writes (quoting me): >> DO NOT USE GYPSUM TO TRY TO ACIDIFY SPARGE >> WATER. ... If you want to use gypsum to keep the >> pH of the runnings low, you can do that... > >Okay. Will adding gypsum to the sparge water help keep tannin extraction >down? That's my main concern with sparge pH. Yes, but don't measure sparge water pH -- measure the pH of the runnings. You're using the same Chicago water I am and even with an all DeWolf-Cosyns Pale Ale malt mash, the runnings pH never got above 5.7 or so even after 8 gallons of runnings from 7 pounds of DWC Pale Ale malt. If you use the Pils malt (which has less acidity and therefore the pH ends up higher) then you may want to add a gram per gallon of gypsum to your sparge water if the style will allow for the added sulphate dry bitterness. If you're making a Pilsner, then, well, you may want to use Phosphoric or Lactic acid or Calcium Chloride if you can find it in food grade for a reasonable price (i.e. DON'T use road salt! ;^). If you do use acids for your sparge water adjustment, then you do want to measure the sparge water pH -- I would adjust it to only about 6.5 pH since the mash will have *some* buffering and if you get the pH too low you will affect the yeast performance and break formation. *** Bill writes: >Have the big three single handedly spoiled the tastes of American beer >drinkers? I doubt that. They sell what sells best. Beer tastes are not >static, they have been changing for hundreds of years. I think that they have been leading the tastes. Before prohibition there was a lot more diversity in beer and after, not only did diversity disappear but also the pale beer got paler, blander and *cheaper* to make. WW II also was a big step function in terms of beer blandness -- after the war beer was again quite lamer than before. and: >I myself can't seem to get rid of the mindset that the big three just don't >get it. But they get it: they please a huge crowd - one that has never heard >of HBD! No, they get it alright, but their goal is not better beer, just better profits. They own beer *factories* and if they can save $0.0001 per can of Bud by reducing the bitterness a little, they'll do it. Look at Eckhardt's book, The Essentials of Beer Style. Compare the bitterness of Budweiser in (I believe) 1980 and (I believe) 1987. It dropped something like 5 IBUs. While you may be right that tastes change, I think that advertising and marketing affect the masses a lot more than flavour and that the big three simply dictate what the masses will drink. Not only do they understand the mass market, they also appreciate the micro revolution -- consider the purchases of Red Hook and Celis. I think that good beer is here to stay, but that we're going to keep having to open new small breweries because the big three are going to keep buying them as they get big enough to be worth their while. Finally, you mentioned Bavaria and their big breweries. Yes, but it's *their* big breweries not ours that have blandified their tastes. Look at the big six in England while you're at it and Interbrew in Belgium. Taste a bottle of Verboden Vrucht before and after the Interbrew takeover of DeKluis. I may sound like I'm saying BIG BREWERIES == AN INCREASE IN BLANDNESS... ... I am. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at pubs.att.com Return to table of contents
Date: 6 Nov 95 12:44:00 -0800 From: LARSEN_JIM at Tandem.COM Subject: pumps and wort In HBD1867, James Hojel <JTroy at msn.com> passed on some comments by a Belgian brewmaster regarding damage to wort by centrifugal pumps, especially at the homebrew (presumably small volume) level. The brewmaster preferred the use of gravity systems whenever possible. Does this concern for gentle treatment of the wort extend to whirlpools (to collect trub and hops in the center of the kettle) and aeration by agitation? Jim Return to table of contents
Date: 07 Nov 95 05:12:09 EST From: Al Stevens <72704.743 at compuserve.com> Subject: Re: "Fine Beer" > how we know many people who easily shell out $20 for a bottle of wine >but look at us like we have three heads when we talk of buying a $4 or $5 >bottle of beer. Are these not the same people who will go out at night and spend the same on cheap commercial swill ???? Al Stevens Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 95 17:47:56 CST From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) Subject: re: Trappists Curt-- Perhaps I'm a little picky, but I was trying to correct a misconception. Some people don't quite understand Belgian beers in general let alone the Trappists. As recently as maybe five or six years ago, I was very confused about Belgian beers also. I was under the impression that all Trappists had lactic components (actually, only Orval has an acidic note and I believe that this may be from an acid-producing yeast). My cousin and I had created the term "Belgian Character" to try to give a name to the aromatic qualities we found common in many Belgian beers. I now know that this is that spicy/phenolic aroma is the character imparted by the yeast and is found in many (but not all) Belgian Ales. I understand what Russ was trying to say, but I could not let it pass because I felt it important to curb the spread of this misconception. True, most Trappist Ales tend to be on the stronger side, but so do most Belgian Ales. Frankly, I would have been less apt to comment if he had said that Biere de Garde had a "Belgian Character." I think that the strength and the prevalence of that spicy/phenolic nose among Belgian Ales is much more widespread than any similarity between various Trappists. Consider what a British or German (lager) brewmaster would say if he/she had a test batch with a new yeast smell like Tres Monts, Delerium Tremens or Stoudt's Tripel... They would probably seal up the windows and fill the brewery with sanitizing solution! Do you see what I mean? IMO, there is more variety in flavour and aroma among Belgian beers than in the rest of the world combined. As they become increasingly available in the US and as more progressive micros and brewpubs join the ranks of Stoudt's, Joe's Brewery in Champaign-Urbana (they made a pKriek there) and New Belgium, the less of a mystery Belgian beers will be. So get out there and taste those beers -- seek them out -- talk to your beer store owners -- get them to carry more Belgian beers -- urge your local micro or brewpub to try a Belgian style -- convince your fellow club members to share the beers they bring back from Belgium! In retrospect, I think that maybe this is of general interest, so I'll Cc the digest. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: 07 Nov 95 07:01:38 EST From: Tim Fields <74247.551 at compuserve.com> Subject: Iodophor Summary Here is a summary from my recent question: to rinse or not to rinse iodophor: All responders said rinsing is not necessary. One uses 30ppm and rinsed and 15ppm and not rinsed. Other than this comment, nobody rinsed after using iodophor, and I don't believe any let the vessel air-dry. They just let it drip for a minute or so. One responder specifically mentioned yeast culturing flasks (no rinsing), others referred to bottles and carboys. I think Domenick Venezia best summed up the question of whether to rinse or not: "So save some time and don't worry about iodophor--it's one of its advantages that you've been missing". "Reeb!" Tim Fields ... Fairfax, VA timf at relay.com (non-brewing time) 74247.551 at compuserve.com (weekends) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 08:41:31 CST From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu> Subject: Grain Mills In Digest #1877: Date: Sat, 4 Nov 1995 19:51:30 +0500 ET From: "Keith Royster" <N1EA471 at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us> Subject: MW of nat.gas, propane, & air / Web pages / Glatt mill Keith sez: >And one last question. I was planning on asking for a Glatt Grain Mill >for my birthday, but am now obviously concerned since they are going out >of business that the warrently wouldn't be worth much. It was my >understanding that this was *the* mill to have. So what would the >experienced all-grainers recommend? Buy the Glatt and cross the fingers, >or is there a close second placer? You're lucky. You don't even have to settle for second best if you get a MaltMill (JSP). Before buying mine I actually tested the three 'most popular' brands at the time: Glatt, Phills, and the MaltMill. I think the others are basically junk compared to the MaltMill. Maybe there's a reason Glatt went belly-up? I have the $100 MM with fixed spacing and have used it to crush all kinds of grains, including unmalted hard wheat, with no problems. It's all you need and bullet-proof to boot. No gears to strip either! Nothing I've seen even comes close to the MaltMill. (No affiliation with JSP, just a happy customer.) Tracy in Vermont aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:40:18 -0500 From: ac051 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Eric W. Miller) Subject: re: Wheat beer question jdickins at baste.magibox.net says: >they all turned out tasting like tea does when you steep the >teabag too long, BITTER The nasty taste you describe as "BITTER" is probably astringency. That's the tea-like flavor/feeling-in-my-mouth I get at the end of a sparge. >My gut feeling is this decoction crap Let's not get emotional, Jim, this is supposed to be a *fun* hobby! >If anyone has any suggestions, I am open to them. OK, I'll bite. I've read a lot about how pH is very important in decoction mashing. I'm not a pH checker and my decoctions have come out wonderful, but that could just be a sign that I'm lucky enough to have good brewing water and you're not. If you're so inclined, you might want to check the pH of your decoction. If I remember correctly it's supposed to be somewhere in the 5.6 to 5.8 range, but check those numbers first. Another thing to watch is the consistency of the decoction. I went overboard with keeping it thick at first and ended up with something I couldn't stir. I was trying to heat it too quickly and scorched the bottom. Still, it made fine beer, but cleanup sucked. You may be leaning the other way, with decoctions that are too thin. I think that'll have a tendency to leach tannins from the husks. What I do is draw off the grains using a strainer and then add water until it's just thin enough to stir (a bit thicker than oatmeal). Give it another shot. I'd recommend trying to make an altbier first (since barley malt is a little easier to work with than wheat malt) to get the technique down. >As it stands now my wheat >beer efforts will be put on hold, though I may try a non-decoction wheat >beer, such as a belgain wit. I did a wit as a triple decoction. Came out fantastic (took best of show runner-up in a contest last weekend). Good luck, Eric Miller Newport, RI Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 08:42:44 -0500 From: ac051 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Eric W. Miller) Subject: re: Irish Moss Brian asks, >Should I be worried that re-hydrated Irish Moss always smells like >fish to me? I've noticed the same smell. I wouldn't (and don't) worry about it, though. After all, I have to stick my nose into the cup that I'm rehydrating in to smell any sea-smell at all, whereas the beautiful aroma of malt and hops fills the house. You should *definitely* become a professional beer taster if you're able to detect fish taste in the finished product! Eric Miller Newport, RI Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 09:28:38 -0500 From: "Bob Hall" <bhall at sparc.ecology.uga.edu> Subject: wheat beer and tannins Regarding an astringent wheat beer: >I have brewed several all grain wheat beers following eric warners directions >to the tee and they all turned out tasting like tea does when you steep the >teabag too long, BITTER. I am wondering why this might be. I've double >checked everything I can think of and can come up with nothing. None of my >other all grains turn out like this. The ONLY way I deviate from e.w. is my >use of 1# more grain. My gut feeling is this decoction crap, I just knew the >grains were never meant to be boiled. Check the pH of the mash - it should be lower than 5.5. If not adjust with calcium or acid. Assuming it is low, there should be no extraction of tannins when boiled in a decoction. I have done lots of decoctions and never had a tannic beer. My guess is that the temperature or pH of the sparge water is too high, and you are leaching out tannins late in the sparge. Tannins are more subject to leaching at high pH. Adjust pH of sparge water with acid (lactic/phosphoric) to 5.7 or so, and quit sparging when the the gravity of the runoff is 1.010. Wheat beers do not have any of the acidic compounds found in dark malts , and may be more suceptible to leaching tannins in the sparge. Bob Hall Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 95 10:02:03 EST From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu> Subject: Re: Bathing In HOMEBREW Digest #1877 flemingk at usa.net (Kirk R Fleming) says: > > David Hill in #1875 asks for opinions regarding his idea of an oil > bath "buffer" for heating a kettle. I think the idea is not too > bad, but I'd recommend against using oil as the "working fluid". Indeed. Chemists solved that question long, long ago with the use of a sand bath. It works like a charm both as a buffer and as a diffuser, and is non-toxic as well as non-inflammable. Pierre Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 10:29:51 EST From: "Calvin Perilloux" <dehtpkn9 at ibmmail.com> Subject: Uncl: Airlock Fluid and Suck Back >From HDB 1877: >I strongly recommend against putting bleach in the airlock... >...and a touch of vodka in your beer isn't going to hurt anything. Vodka is the way to go. It's food grade stuff, it kills bacteria and yeast given enough contact time (no problem with contact time in this application), and it's cheap when you use only a half ounce of it at a time. >I've seen this suckback problem mentioned before in the digest but have >never experienced it myself. In fact I never see the levels in the airlo >indicate anything other than zero to positive differential pressure. Wha >causes this? Here's one example: When using a plastic fermentor, I sometimes got air sucked back through the lock if I picked up the fermenter to move it to a colder/warmer location. The bottom bulges out just a bit, pulling in a few cubic centimeters of air. It probably sucked drops of vodka in, too, but that's no problem. I'm glad I didn't use bleach! Another time that I would expect it might happen, but I haven't seen it in my experience over 60 batches, is that if there is a lot of headspace, the yeast is almost completely done fermenting, and the beer is then moved into a lagering phase where the temperature is dropped relatively quickly from the 50's to the low 30's. The contraction of the CO2 gas with the colder temperature could reduce the pressure inside to < 1 ATM. (A spurious thought: What about a batch lagering with a lot of head space during a hurricane, followed the next day by a a strong high pressure system? Would the increase in outside pressure cause suck back? But then your seals probably aren't THAT tight for such a slow pressure change, not to mention that I doubt you'd be worrying about suck back at the time.) > ...In my opinion, any suck back > problem draws contaminated outside air into the fermenter and should be > avoided completely. I would not put it so strongly unless you are running a closed system where you never allow outside air to touch your wort or beer at all. If you are the kind of homebrewer who sanitizes like absolute mad, aerates only with pure O2, always purges the fermenters with sterile gas of some sort, who bottles and kegs in a CO2 atmosphere (basically runs a closed system the whole way from wort to bottle), and never repitches yeast without analyzing for the few random wild yeasts or bacteria, then worry about suck back. If you're like the rest of us who tend to have less sterile systems, then modest suck back is not a major source of problems. Calvin Perilloux "Bayerisches Bier, dehtpkn9 at ibmmail.com Staerker als Heimweh" Erding, Germany Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1878, 11/08/95