HOMEBREW Digest #1880 Fri 10 November 1995

Digest #1879 Digest #1881

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Temperature calculations (John Girard)
  Big Three ("William D. Knudson")
  Another source of Scientific Equipement (Stephen_W._Snyder)
  Opnions - lead - questions (claytonj)
  infusion calcs/ ("Wallinger, W. A.")
  Scotch Ale recipe (ALEJANDRO MIDENCE)
  Yeast question (Brian Yankee)
  Sanitary Regulators and CAMARA ("James Hojel")
  RE: Corny keg problem (too much foam) (Brian Pickerill)
  archive admin info needed (chris campanelli)
  Re: Home Brew Technique... (John DeCarlo              )
  Soda recipes ("Harralson, Kirk")
  Electric Stove Performance ("Harralson, Kirk")
  Chlorine in America (Rob Reed)
  Re: Home Brew Technique... (Jeff Benjamin)
  hardness test strips, dioxin ("Tracy Aquilla")
  Mashout Procedure in a Picnic Cooler Mash Tun (hadleyse)
  Micro- brewery Term Misuse (wyatt)
  hops in trub ("Goodale, Daniel CPT 2AD DISCOM")
  kegging, bottling and foaming (Neal Christensen)
  Beer Carpentry 101 (cdevrie)
  test strips for hardness (Steve Alexander)
  Re:  Binford ToxiTherm 4000 (GREGORY KING)
  sugars (Jay Weissler)
  Re: Bleach (Tim Lacy)
  Re: Blue Green Carboys (Richard Gardner)
  Re: bleach (GREGORY KING)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!! November 5 thru November 11: The digest !!! will be unmanned! Please be patient if !!! you make any requests during this time !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ****************************************************************** * POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail, * I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list * that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox * is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced * mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days. * * If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only * sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get * more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list. ****************************************************************** ################################################################# # # YET ANOTHER NEW FEDERAL REGULATION: if you are UNSUBSCRIBING from the # digest, please make sure you send your request to the same service # provider that you sent your subscription request!!! I am now receiving # many unsubscribe requests that do not match any address on my mailing # list, and effective immediately I will be silently deleting such # requests. # ################################################################# NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS hpfcmgw! Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org ARCHIVES: An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at ftp.stanford.edu. Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full e-mail address as the password, look under the directory /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory. AFS users can find it under /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer. If you do not have ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail service at gatekeeper.dec.com. For information about this service, send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with the word "help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 09:25:09 -0800 (PST) From: John Girard <jungle at hollywood.cinenet.net> Subject: Temperature calculations Brian Dulisse asks about temperature calculations for strike water temps and additional infusions. Well, a couple of weeks ago, my homebrew buddy and I sought out to figure out (approximately) what equations SUDS uses so that we could set up a spreadsheet or program that allowed for multiple infusions (which SUDS currently doesn't, but may soon). Since we had good results with SUDS, it seemed like the equations from it would be a good place to start. Here's what we came up with, which seemed to match SUDS predicitons exactly: Strike temperature: - ------------------- Ts = (Tf - Tg) (((4M/P)+.19) P/V) + Tf Ts = Stike water temperature Tf = Final desired temperature Tg = Starting temperature of grain M = Thermal mass of the vessel (depends on the mash tun. Start with .15 and adjust according to experimental results) P = Pounds of grain V = volume of strike water (so that P/V = pounds per quart, or the inverse of the standard water to grain ratio of qts/pound) Additional infusions: - --------------------- (((4M/P)+.19)P + Vm) (Tf - Tm) Vi = ------------------------------ (Ti - Tf) Same as above, with the addition of: Vi = Volume of infusion water to add Vm = Volume of H2O already in the mash Ti = Temperature of infusion water (212, if boiling at sea level) Tm = Temperature of mash before infusion~ Didn't spend the time to come up with units, but these seem to work as long as the units are consistent and might work in metric (only tested with qts, pounds and F, not liters, grams, and C -- the .19 constant might be different). Maybe someone could check these (my notes are a little hard to read). Also, now I can get around to asking a question I meant to pose a while ago. Anyone have any idea how to write an algorithm that would do the following: Calculate the volume and temperature of strike water such that the next infusion of boiling water would raise the temperature and water/grain ratio to a desired level? e.g., I want to determine the strike water to add to 10 #s grain to raise the temp to 105, such that on raising it to 140 with an infusion of boiling water, I achieve 1.0 qts/pound. I assume it would have to be an iterative approach, but may be wrong... Thanks, John Girard (new address, BTW: jungle at hollywood.cinenet.net) Return to table of contents
Date: 08 Nov 95 13:17:37 EST From: "William D. Knudson" <71764.203 at compuserve.com> Subject: Big Three Al K says "...you mentioned Bavaria and their big Breweries, Yes but it's *their* big breweries not ours that have blandified....." My point exactly this is a world wide phonemon. The post Prohibition changes to American beer is a little more compicated than, 'the biggies suddenly got cost concious'. Have you noticed that American tastes are bland? Examples: Coffee, Beer, Cigarettes, etc. Did the coffee companies of the US somehow force us to prefer (at least historically) watered down coffee, while the rest of the world had the real thing. Couldn't that have been remedied right there in the kitchen? Al also states that "I think they have been leading our tastes." Typically American, Al, blame it on someone else. Our vote is when you and I open the door and grab a beer, and fork over the sheckles at the counter for the selection. Isn't that it? (or say screw it, I'll have a homebrew instead) AB's dismal attempt at marketing a Bavarian style Weissbier was a total flop! But the beer really was an honest attempt IMHO. I think that helps support my assertion that the American beer drinking public is not dupped, they drink what they choose: watered down swill. There's an inference here that 'concerns over money' are *unique* to the biggies. Let me suggest this is a luxury unique only to us homebrewers. Ingredient costs are just not a great concern with my homebrew operation. However, *all* comercial brewerys had better be concerned about costs, or perish. If a cost cutting measure by a brewery impacts the beer in an adverse way, don't buy it. Anyone out there notice that Sam Adams has been dicking around with the Boston Lager since inception? I used to drink Lowenbrau when it was imported in the mid-70's. I'm still pissed off at Miller for what they did! I don't buy it! By the way the AB saaz order cancellation and screwing Pete's advertising relationship: this is the essense of corporate scuz. Sole justification for a boycott. One of the biggies, biggest impediments to producing fine micobrews is that they try to do it in the big brewhouse with all the others. Not only are they multi yeast intolerant, but the mega minds that walk the halls just aren't that flexable. Their only chance to succeed at 'microbrew' is to do it as autonymous from the big operation as possible. My prediction for the beer for the US is as follows: 1. Biggies will continue to sell more swill than anything else (I could care less) 2. Biggies will continue to buy out successful micros. 3. Some Micros will fail :-( 4. New micros will start up with new ideas (yes there is life after 1056 and fruit!) 5. In spite of the the biggies cost controlling zeal, I'll still homebrew. Bill Ja ja, hore jezt zu, glaube mir spateren, aber ich muss noch ein hausgebrautes Bier trinken. Return to table of contents
Date: 08 Nov 95 12:13:06 EST From: <Stephen_W._Snyder at metcapw1.ccmail.compuserve.com> Subject: Another source of Scientific Equipement FWIW, I thought I'd pass along a good source of scientific equipment for the homebrewer. The company is called Fungi Perfecti, (206) 426-9292 in Olympia, WA. This is a large operation that supplies mushroom growers around the world. Since culturing yeast is very similar to culturing fungi, the equipment selection is ideally suited to the homebrewer. They have everything from Petri dishes, Agar, scales, laminar hoods, and even Walk-In Autoclaves!!! They claim to have some of the lowest prices on autoclaves in the country. Just looking through the catalog I'd say that most prices are in line with what I've seen elsewhere. Check them out... (Standard disclaimers, no affiliation) Steve Snyder Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 1995 13:44:08 -0500 From: claytonj at cc.tacom.army.mil Subject: Opnions - lead - questions Howdy folks, "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu> in one article says: > ... I doubt if it's wise (or responsible) to post unsubstantiated >claims like this to r.c.b or the digest (or to spread rumors >by repeating hearsay). Publicly questioning the quality of their >products and/or their sense of business ethics probably won't solve >your problem, but it is likely to land you in court! Then in another article says: >... I actually tested the three 'most popular' brands at the time: >Glatt, Phills, and the MaltMill. I think the others are basically >junk compared to the MaltMill. Maybe there's a reason Glatt went >belly-up? Isn't that a contradiction in the same digest? ;-) If I remember correctly (must be the lead in my carboys... see next question) the Wyeast thread started by someone saying he had unexpected results from a batch using 1056. Others said they also had unexpected results as well but I don't recall anyone saying Wyeast was knowingly selling bad 1056 yeast. I had a similar problem using said yeast in August, darker than expected and some off flavors from a known recipe, but I attributed it to unusually high ferment temp, upper 70's, and two boilovers, DOH! Maybe it was the yeast :-). I appreciate the information, opinions, etc. of the other brewers in the digest and would hate to see anyone feel inhibited from posting problems they are having for fear of retribution by the various vendors of brewing products (not that it would actually happen). Its a kinder and gentler HBD from a few years ago so don't be afraid to stick your neck out and share your opnions and findings. I won't tell anyone. <<>> dmccull at alabama.com (Douglas A. McCullough) writes: > The carboys, manufactured in Mexico and offered for sale for about >$12 at locally at Waccamaw, have a pronounced blue-green tint. He >suggests that the tint indictes a lead content so high that beer, >leaching it out, would contain unacceptable lead levels. I have some Mexican carboys purchased a couple years ago and was wondering if anyone knows how I can test for lead? <<>> I use Irish moss in my beers to coagulate the proteins and help in break formation. I then have been using the shake the carboy method of aeration I still have a chill haze, not really a problem but, an issue with my beers. Does this shaking method of aeration decoagulate (is that even a word?) the proteins thus leading to chill haze or is it caused by my usual practice of steeping specialty grains for 20 - 30 min in 150 degF water? I'm almost ready to go all grain in my new Gott mash tun with a slotted copper manifold. I was wondering if the Gott mashers out there add the grain to the hot water or add the water to the grain? Please send any private responses to ak753 at detroit.freenet.org. Cheers, Joe Clayton Farmington Hills, Michigan USA (ak753 at detroit.freenet.org claytonj at cc.tacom.army.mil) Return to table of contents
Date: 08 Nov 1995 10:45:10 PST From: "Wallinger, W. A." <WAWA at chevron.com> Subject: infusion calcs/ From: Wallinger, W. A. (Wade) To: OPEN ADDRESSING SERVI-OPENADDR Subject: infusion calcs/ Date: 1995-11-08 12:33 Priority: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ brian asks: > is there a formula for calculating the volume/temperature of infusions? I just devised these recently for including in a record-keeping spreadsheet. The equation is: (Vw1*8.34*Cw)(Tw - Tf) = (Wg*Cg + Vw2*8.34*Cw)*(Tf - Ti) where: Vw1 is gallons of water used to raise the mash temperature Cw is the heat capacity of water, which equals 1 Btu/lb/degF Tw is temp in degF of water used to raise the mash temp Tf is temp in degF that you are shooting for Wg is lbs of grain in the mash Cg is heat capacity of grain, which I assume to be 0.65 Btu/lb/degF Vw2 is gallons of water that has already been added to the mash Ti is temp in degF of the mash tun contents Given the volume of water you intend to add, calculate the temp you need: Tw = Tf + [(Wg*0.65 + Vw2*8.34)/(Vw1*8.34) * (Tf - Ti)! Given the temp of water you intend to use, calculate the volume you need: Vw1 = (Wg*0.65 + Vw2*8.34)/8.34 * (Tf - Ti)/(Tw - Tf) I hope this helps! Calvin surmises: > What about a batch lagering with a lot of head > space during a hurricane, followed the next day by a a strong high > pressure system? I had to worry about hurricanes twice this year. You are right - suck back was the least of my worries. The biggest worry I had was how I could convince my wife to make room for three kegs of beer in the van if we had to evacuate. Finally, we have a new Legislature in Mississippi today. Perhaps THIS bunch will see their way clear to legalizing my leisure activities. Cheers, Wade Wallinger, brewing contraband on the Mississippi Gulf Coast Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 04 Nov 95 18:14:00 -0600 From: alejandro.midence at ssanctum.com (ALEJANDRO MIDENCE) Subject: Scotch Ale recipe Hi, all, I've got something of a prob. You see, I was reading greg's book on Scottish Ales and I found a recipe which I found kinda doubtful. IF any've got the book, have a llook see at pages 115, 116. I'm wondering if anyone has brewed a similar recipe to this: Ibu = 25-30 og: 1.075 fg: 1.016-1.020 Inggredients for five gal: 10.3 lbs amber malt extract syrup 1/2 lb carapils 1-1/3 *oz.* roasted barley (?) your choice of hops at 7.5 hbu Scottish Ale yeast (1 qt starter) rec2 wee heavy Ibu = 30 og: 1.090-1.100 fg: 1.020-1.025 Ingredients for five gal: 13.3 lbs malt extract syrup (?) (wow!!!!) 1 lb carapils 1 1/3 ox. roast barley (?) your choice of hopps at 8 hbu scottish ale yeast at (1 qt starter My questin is: Shouldn't there be more hops? Lord, that's a sweet brew, both of them. For those that have stuck with me, here's a (proven) rec for the winter months. Alex's scottish ale 8 lbs munton's amber malt extract syrup 2/3 lb crystal 1/3 lb roasted barley 2 oz. east Kent Goldings (10.6 hbu) 1 oz. goldings ten minutes Scottish Ale Yeast 3/4 c dextros priming og: forgot to check Fg: they drank it too fast to check Enjoy!! Alex Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:33:08 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Yankee <byankee at husc.harvard.edu> Subject: Yeast question Has anybody tried Yeastlab #09 English Ale yeast? I just bought some, but I can't find any info on this strain (i.e. attenuation, flavor profile, origin, etc.). Any comments would be appreciated. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 13:50:50 UT From: "James Hojel" <JTroy at msn.com> Subject: Sanitary Regulators and CAMARA I have a very simple question: how do I sanitize my CO2 regulator? I use Star-San as a sanitizer. I inherited a regulator that looks very old and used. What's growing inside? I also don't want to spray any liquid into it in fear of messing something up!! When it comes to trying to be sanitary, I'm one of those people who belongs to the anal club (at times I've lost sleep over fears of contamination). I also heard that there are some organisims that thrive in a CO2 environment. Any suggestions? In addition, does anyone have a list of web pages that deal with CAMARA or REAL ALE ? Return to table of contents
Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by BSUVC.bsu.edu From: 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill) Subject: RE: Corny keg problem (too much foam) Will Hale (WILLHALE at delphi.com) said: > As a brand new kegger, I have found a problem with pouring, that is all I >pour is >foam. Try this. Press down on the gas-in poppet with a screwdriver and let out all the pressure. Let off and pick up the keg. Shake it up, which should let the co2 out of solution and create pressure in the keg, just like shaking a pop bottle. Try pouring a bit more. If it comes out too fast, try letting off some more pressure and pour again. If it's still too foamy, repeat. It's difficult to get your kegging procedures down, but it sounds like you just overpressurized for your system. It's true that different diameters and lengths of hose affect the ideal pressure for delivery--in fact there are so many variables that you IMHO are best off experimenting 'till you find something that works. I usually force carb at about 35 psi, but often get too much pressure/foam. It's easy to let off a bit. Of course, you can shake the keg under c02 pressure to shake c02 INTO solution as well. - --Brian Pickerill, Muncie, IN Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 08:32 CST From: akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli) Subject: archive admin info needed I need the name and email address of the person responsible for the hbd archives. TIA chris campanelli akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 10:05:08 EST From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at mitre.org> Subject: Re: Home Brew Technique... aesoph%ncemt.ctc.com at ctcga.ctc.com (Aesoph, Michael) writes: >Throughout my short career, I have NEVER taken a >temperature, specific gravity reading or virtually any other measurement >imaginable. Every batch turns out just as well as any homebrew I've ever >had. ... >"Why bother with all those measurements, if they aren't absolutely >necessary?" Any comments???? Well, here are a few comments <g>: 1) People have made good beer long before there were thermometers or hydrometers. There were approximations (an egg floats at a certain level, or it is warmer than body temperature or boiling hot, etc.) that were used. 2) Why bother, then? a) It can improve your consistency. You are more able to reproduce a brew if you write down what you do and make all the measurements you can (weigh ingredients, measure volumes, etc.) b) It can detect problems. If your S.G. is 1.035 when you bottle, something went wrong. You may not ever encounter such a problem, or it may happen to you next week. Hard to tell in advance. This is sort of like covering your speedometer with tape. You may never speed, and when you do speed, you might not get caught. OTOH, you don't have the information you might need. c) It can improve your beer. "Just as good" is fine for many people, but others, probably way over-represented on this list, like the "just a little better" approach. Often times, this requires measurements. Pitching your yeast at 70F instead of 90F *does* (in my experience) improve the taste of your beer. In conclusion, everyone should do what they feel like. If you are happy with what you are doing, fine. Some people don't need to sanitize anything and manage to get by without nasty contaminations. Results matter. However, most of the advice *I* give people is intended to make them do a little more work, but have better, more consistent results. Some of what they do may be unnecessary and they can skip some steps after awhile (their well water doesn't need boiling, for example. Others with tap water may need to boil only during the summer when there is *lots* more chlorine, etc.). But in my experience, people who brew *bad* batches are more discouraged than people who spend extra time doing things that *may* be unnecessary *today*. John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 95 11:01:32 EST From: "Harralson, Kirk" <kwh at roadnet.ups.com> Subject: Soda recipes I know this has been asked a bazillion times, but does anyone have any truly outstanding recipes for making soda? I have seen references to a "Root Beef Faq", but can't seem to find it. I just got the last part of my kegging setup, and want to practice on something other than my homebrew. I know I've seen recipes in past digests, but I didn't save them, and I couldn't locate them with searches. Thanks in Advance, Kirk Harralson Bel Air, Maryland Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 95 11:15:03 EST From: "Harralson, Kirk" <kwh at roadnet.ups.com> Subject: Electric Stove Performance Bringing 6+ gallons to boil on an electric stove is a true exercise in patience. I was told that I could generate much more heat if I covered the bowl under the burner with aluminum foil, shiny side up. This makes some sense to me, but I wonder how much it would help. Has anybody tried this? The same person told me I should be very careful not to overheat thin metal pots containing liquid on an electric stove. According to him, people have been boiling crabs hard enough to create holes in the bottom of the pot, leak water down to the connection and short out the 220 element, and spray boiling hot water over the kitchen. I can't see this happening to stainless, but it sure made me wonder about my 33qt EOS kettle. Has anybody heard of this before? Kirk Harralson Bel Air, Maryland Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:38:00 -0500 (EST) From: Rob Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com> Subject: Chlorine in America Jay LaBonte - email through beernut at xmission.com writes: > If my Environmental Conservation courses and my memory serve me > correctly chlorine reacts with organic compounds in nature to form > organochlorines like Dioxin - you know Dioxin? That nasty cancer > causing stuff that has been the scourge of EPA Superfund sites for > years now. <snip> > How do you think the > environment got to the point where it is now? Years and years of > dumping things down the drain, that's how! If you have any scientific data on this, I'd be very interested. As you're aware, chlorine is in widespread use in the United States and I'm sure anyone who uses chlorine - that includes all of us who drink chlorinated water - would be interested in potential problems surrounding the use of chlorine. I don't understand if the use of chlorine results in the formation of hazardous chemicals as you say, why hasn't the mainstream media brought it to our attention and why aren't swimming pool chemicals containing chlorine, sodium hypochlorite, and chlorine containing drinking water under investigation by the EPA? Can you elucidate us? Cheers, Rob Reed Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 10:35:47 MST From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com> Subject: Re: Home Brew Technique... > Throughout my short career, I have NEVER taken a temperature, specific > gravity reading or virtually any other measurement imaginable. Every > batch turns out just as well as any homebrew I've ever had. My question > is then, "Why bother with all those measurements, if they aren't > absolutely necessary?" Any comments???? In a word: consistency. Do you at least write down the ingredients you use? That's a start, but to make sure you can duplicate that extra-good batch again, it's imperative to know all the variables. Small variables can change a beer greatly. Perhaps the batch of malt gave you a lower extraction, or the mineral content or pH of your water changes seasonally, or your yeast isn't being quite as attenuative... you won't know unless you measure gravity or pH. Unless you measure temperature, you won't be able to duplicate that mash schedule that gave you just the right body, and a few degrees difference in fermentation temp can make a big difference in ester production. Sure, you can make a great batch of homebrew without taking any measurements, but it won't be as easy to make that great beer a second time. - -- Jeff Benjamin benji at fc.hp.com Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado "Think! It ain't illegal yet." -- George Clinton Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 12:45:34 CST From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu> Subject: hardness test strips, dioxin In Digest #1879: Robert Marshall <robertjm at hooked.net> says: >In the Williams' Brewing Catalog they have a test strip advertised >for testing water hardness. I have never seen this before and was >wondering if anyone out there has ever used this themselves?? I've never used the product you mention, but I have tried something similar. I have AquaCheck-5, which is a 5-in-1 test strip that measures total chlorine, free chlorine, total hardness, total alkalinity, and pH. These strips work quite well and I've been able to confirm some of these tests using other means. They aren't reusable and I paid about $8 for 100 strips. I occasionally use them to monitor the water I use for brewing. Since my tap water comes from a natural spring, the quality frequently changes. I generally use deionized water for brewing, but the strips are handy for those times when I need them. I expect the bottle to last me for a few years. I think they're great for homebrewers; they provide most of the relevant water quality tests within a few seconds. I have the information on where to get them at home; if anyone is interested, email me and I'll post the info. and Mark B. Alston <mark at beernut.com> says: >In respones to Tim Fields query in HBD # 1876 re: "bleaching mother >nature" >I'm not a chemist and I don't have a source for this but.... >If my Environmental Conservation courses and my memory serve me >correctly chlorine reacts with organic compounds in nature to form >organochlorines like Dioxin - you know Dioxin? That nasty cancer >causing stuff that has been the scourge of EPA Superfund sites for >years now. As far as I know this is generally accepted as the truth >by everyone except G. Gordon Liddy and some of his listeners. >Whomever it was who suggested that bleach can't be bad because people >have been using it for years is silly. How do you think the >environment got to the point where it is now? Years and years of >dumping things down the drain, that's how! The environmental/health effects of dioxin itself are still being debated by scientists. That it causes cancer in humans is definitely not "generally accepted as the truth". Fairly recently, many other chlorine-containing organic compounds (including PCBs) have been lumped together into a group called "dioxin-like" compounds, often referred to as dioxins, causing mass confusion about what dioxin really is. Recent estimates of the world-wide production of dioxin are about 35 pounds per year. Many of the ill effects attributed to dioxin may actually be due to other compounds, which may or may not be related structurally. The rate of formation of dioxin is relatively low at ambient temperatures, and in any case, hypochlorite (i.e. bleach) is volatile, so I don't think household bleach is a major environmental problem. If it were proven to be so bad, it probably wouldn't be available in the stores. If anyone wants more details, I have some information I can send via email. Tracy in Vermont aquilla at salus.med.uvm.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 12:50:28 EST From: hadleyse at pweh.com Subject: Mashout Procedure in a Picnic Cooler Mash Tun I recently built a combination mash/lauter tun out of a 48 qt rectangular picnic cooler with a slotted copper manifold as part of my 10 gal set up. I've done 2 pale ales in it so far and have performed the mash out by adding boiling water to the mash prior to recirculation and draining/sparging. This technique reduces the amount of sparge water I can run over the grain bed and reduces my extract efficiency. I had some other ideas for how to perform the mashout that may help raise my extract efficiency: 1.) Drain some amount of sweet wort from the mash, bring it up to a boil and return to the mash tun. 2.) Drain the mash and add some amount of boiling water to the mash prior to sparging. Any comments or suggestions for alternate procedures would be much appreciated. Scott Hadley Hartford, CT Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 95 10:12:00 pst From: wyatt at Latitude.COM Subject: Micro- brewery Term Misuse As a number of people have alluded in recent HBD issues, it seems apparent that the term Microbrewery is often misused. Samual Adams still uses the term even though they don't even make their own beer anymore. I just want to point out that there are many so called microbreweries that use the same practices. Pete of Pete's Wicked has admitted that they have been using contract breweries almost since the begining and have gone through several. All that really exists of these companies is a marketing, accounting, executive and possibly distrubution staff although some of these are contracted out. I suppose they monitor the quality of what they market but I wonder about even that. It is a shame that the craft brewing market waters have to be muddied by such deliberate marketing misinformation, however this seems to be the case with all giant businesses. Advertising seems to contain way too many blatent lies and truth in advertising is a joke. As far as I know there is no legal definition of the term "microbrewery" and anyone can use it. I think it would be silly for A/B or Miller to use the term but I wouldn't be suprised if they did. I think the real crime happens when organizations like S/A use their success to stomp on the real craft brewers though legal channels. Even though the action is not usually sucessful, the real objective is achieved by draining these craft brewers of critical capital needed to keep their businesses going. I don't know about you but I consider this unethical. I think we have to realize that the only way to combat these actions is not to give them our money. I never buy or drink S/A partly because of the previously mentioned reasons and because I don't consider it that good anyway. I was tempted to try the Triple Bock (even though it isn't a real bock, brewed with ale yeast and I really don't think maple syrup passes the German purity laws) but didn't. Personally I don't think just misusing the term microbrewery justifies a boycott, but the deception makes me take another look at what else they are doing. I just don't like it when big business (or ex-micro's turned Megabreweries) uses a grassroots back to basics movement like craft brewing to deceptivly market the same old crap for maximum profit. Still, the fact that they are trying to create the perception that they are craft brewers suggests that they even realize that some change in that direction is inevitible, definitly a good thing. By the way, I don't mean to slam Pete's Wicked. They have a right to market their beer even though I don't consider them to be a brewer much less a microbrewery. I have met Pete and found him to be a basicly honest guy, I just used them as an example. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 95 10:11:00 PST From: "Goodale, Daniel CPT 2AD DISCOM" <GoodaleD at hood-03.army.mil> Subject: hops in trub dear collective, While at my local homebrew shop, I was talking to the owner (the fat guy with the bad teeth; you know the type). He said that some of his customers complain about their beer being too bitter. He attributes this to hops in the trub continuing to bitter the beer if they are allowed in the primary fermenter. I am way too lazy to filter that stuff out, so all the break goes into my primary. My finished beer dosn't taste too bitter (perhaps i've just grown accustomed to it or my taste buds have been burned out?). Anywho, is this true or a homebrew legend??????? Daniel W. Goodale goodaled at hood-03.army.mil Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 11:50:40 -0700 From: nealc at selway.umt.edu (Neal Christensen) Subject: kegging, bottling and foaming Nigel Townsend responded to Dan Fitzgerald regarding filling bottles and kegs. I do use your suggested method Nigel, but I don't prime my beer. I use corny kegs as fermentors and close them off for the secondary - thereby carbonating them (But even if I did prime, I could carbonate all of the beer in the keg and then bottle). After transfer into serving kegs, I chill them and monitor and adjust the pressure until I get a stable concentration where I like it. If I want bottled beer, I either poor directly into chilled bottles for short-term use (I loose a little carbonation) or counter-pressure fill for other than immediate use. I think that a cp bottler is the way to go. I built mine following a Zymurgy how-to article for less than $30. You have good control over carbonation level, very little chance for oxygenation, no bottle sediment and no bottle conditioning time. It takes a little more time to do the cp bottling, but if all you do is bottle some of your beer and serve most in the keg, its great. Many commercial breweries use this method over bottle conditioning. Will Hale asked about a foaming problem with his kegged beer. It seems to me that the factors affecting foaming are temperature and pressure. Specifically the factors include: amount of CO2 in solution, temperature of the beer at the point of dispensing verses temperature of the beer at equilibrium in the keg, diameter of the serving line, length of the serving line and the serving pressure from the regulator. To control foaming you need to find the happy medium of all these factors. If the beer warms or has a change in atmospheric pressure during dispensing, then CO2 will come out of solution and cause foaming. The more CO2 in solution, the more potential for it to come out of solution at a given pressure; the warmer the beer, the less CO2 can be held in solution at a given pressure; the larger the inside diameter of the serving line, the more pressure is necessary to push out the beer; the longer the line, the more pressure required to push out the beer. If you cannot solve the problem by varying the diameter and length of the hose to adjust dispensing pressure, then consider the temperature factor. I have found temperature to be a big factor for me. A properly carbonated bock is more carbonated than an ale, and so should be served at a colder temperature. Will, you mentioned that you serve at 50 degrees. Try the low to mid 40s for serving a lager and make sure that the beer is not being warmed between the keg and the spigot. Alternately, try reducing the level of carbonation in the beer. Neal Christensen Missoula - A Place Sort Of Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 95 11:09:07 pst From: rbarnes at sdccd.cc.ca.us Subject: AB KEGS WITH PLASTIC ENDS I have access to a 15.5 gal. keg (Sanke?) that I believe once contained an Anheuser-Busch product. The keg is stainless, and has what appears to be plastic or rubber on the end rings on the top and bottom. Before I drive some distance to pick this up, is this rubber a coating over stainless end rings? Can the rubber be removed? I want to use the keg as a boiling kettle, and obviously the coating will not withstand the heat from the burner. Has anyone converted a keg of this type? Thanks, Randy Barnes, San Diego Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 15:35:04 EST From: cdevrie at bmgmusic.com Subject: Beer Carpentry 101 First, I'd like to thank all of you who responded to my e-mail regarding secondary fermentation. I'm in the middle of that batch right now, so hopefully it will be good (of course it will :-) ). I was wondering if there are any books out there which give you steps and guidlines to building brewing equipment (ie. wort chillers, sparging systems, mashing systems, etc.) that anybody can do from their own home. If anybody knows of any such book, please let me know. Thanks in advance. Later, Chris Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:43:13 -0500 From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com> Subject: test strips for hardness In Homebrew Digest #1879 (November 09, 1995) Robert Marshall writes: >In the Williams' Brewing Catalog they have a test strip advertised >for testing water hardness. I have never seen this before and was >wondering if anyone out there has ever used this themselves?? > ... I can't speak to the Williams catalog item, but pet shops that carry supplies for tropical aquarium fish will also carry test strips and test kits for water hardness, pH and alkalinity. The big 'chain' pet stores have a wide selection of these. Stevea Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 15:58:15 -0400 (EDT) From: GREGORY KING <GKING at ARSERRC.Gov> Subject: Re: Binford ToxiTherm 4000 >Date: Tue, 07 Nov 95 16:56:00 CST >From: "Merchant, Thomas E" <temercha at hsv23.pcmail.ingr.com> >Subject: Binford ToxiTherm 4000 > > >Kirk Fleming mentioned the Binford ToxiTherm 4000 mercury bath boiler in HBD >1877. I'm having a problem with mine and am wondering if anyone else is... > It just doesn't seem to be working as well as when it was new. It now >takes about 5 minutes to bring 5 gallons or wort to a boil. When it was new >it could do the same in just over 2 minutes. I'm thinking "more power". > Has anyone been successful at modifying it for better performance? If so, >what did you do? Thanks. When you guys start to get serious about bringing your worts to a boil quickly, you can do what I did. I got myself a few nuclear fuel rods (these may be obtained cheaply at your local army surplus store). The rods are inserted directly into the wort and then brought into close proximity to achieve the critical mass that initiates the desired nuclear chain reaction. 5 gallons of wort comes to a boil in about 23 seconds. I have a question of my own: is there any correlation between drinking homebrew and sudden (and rather complete) loss of teeth and hair? - --Greg ==================================================================== Gregory King Internet: gking at arserrc.gov Eastern Rgnl. Rsrch. Cntr., ARS, USDA Voice: (1) 215 233 6675 600 East Mermaid Lane Fax: (1) 215 233 6559 Philadelphia, PA 19118-2551 Disclaimer: Any opinions expressed in this message are mine. ==================================================================== Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 14:55:35 -0600 From: jay_weissler at il.us.swissbank.com (Jay Weissler) Subject: sugars Please, forgive me. I know that this has been covered but I failed to pay attention and now I can't seem to find the info. Are there any common equivalents to invert sugar or maltose syrup? I'm looking for another name that I might find this stuff under in the grocery store. Are there other names that I might find them under in the brew shop? How about substitutes? Are there good replacements? (I'm planning on trying some of Wheeler's recipes) Are any of these available in Chicago brew stores? How about the target, challenger, etc. hops that Wheeler uses? TIA jayw Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 13:04:27 TZ From: Tim Lacy <timla at microsoft.com> Subject: Re: Bleach In HBD #1879, mark at beernut.com (Mark B. Alston) said: >In respones to Tim Fields query in HBD # 1876 re: "bleaching mother >nature" >I'm not a chemist and I don't have a source for this but.... >If my Environmental Conservation courses and my memory serve me >correctly chlorine reacts with organic compounds in nature to form >organochlorines like Dioxin - you know Dioxin? That nasty cancer >causing stuff that has been the scourge of EPA Superfund sites for >years now. As far as I know this is generally accepted as the truth <<snip>> There are some serious problems with your statement: Chlorine is the 20th most common element in our environment. Chlorine bleach decomposes to give off chlorine gas, leaving salt water behind, according to the label. I'll get the chemical formula if you really need it. Dioxin isn't an 'it', it's a 'them' - a class of compounds, and none of them can be formed by exposing organics to chlorine unless you intend to manufacture a dioxin. In addition, you'll find in modern references that dioxins (technically, polychlorinated dibenzo-para-dioxins) while carcinogenic, has not been proven to be so in humans. On the other hand, I'd rather not eat one. Regardless, saying chlorine + organics = dioxins is (outside of the manufacture of certain compounds) false. It's like saying that nitrogen + toulene = TNT. Chlorine is used to sanitize drinking water. (my father-in-law is a water commissioner who'd be happy to fill us in on the details). It's also used in the production of many common materials that are no more toxic than gravel - from PVC pipe to Saran(tm) wrap. Call the EPA, or any good organic chemist, and ask them what the consequences of pouring chlorine bleach down the drain is. Dioxin isn't one of them. I apologize for the bandwidth, but I'd really like to see this kind of urban legend stuff get nipped in the bud before it's accepted as fact. I am very environmentally conscious, and I buy bleach in bulk! -Tim <timla at microsoft.com> My employer has nothing to do with this. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:49:54 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Gardner <rgardner at Papillion> Subject: Re: Blue Green Carboys Lead in small amounts makes the glass clear. In large amounts, it gives a yellow hue to the glass. In a prior life I worked as a nuclear engineer where we had plenty of yellow glass viewports, the yellow coming from the lead. I don't know what makes the carboys blue-green, but I wouldn't worry about it being Pb (I have 3 of these, and I am not worrying). Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 1995 17:11:42 -0400 (EDT) From: GREGORY KING <GKING at ARSERRC.Gov> Subject: Re: bleach >Date: Tue, 07 Nov 95 18:29:34 MST >From: mark at beernut.com (Mark B. Alston) >Subject: RE: Bleach > >In respones to Tim Fields query in HBD # 1876 re: "bleaching mother >nature" >I'm not a chemist and I don't have a source for this but.... >If my Environmental Conservation courses and my memory serve me >correctly chlorine reacts with organic compounds in nature to form >organochlorines like Dioxin - you know Dioxin? That nasty cancer >causing stuff that has been the scourge of EPA Superfund sites for >years now. As far as I know this is generally accepted as the truth >by everyone except G. Gordon Liddy and some of his listeners. >Whomever it was who suggested that bleach can't be bad because people >have been using it for years is silly. How do you think the >environment got to the point where it is now? Years and years of >dumping things down the drain, that's how! > >- --- Jay LaBonte > email through beernut at xmission.com Chlorine - like most other elements - may exist in various forms. Some are benign, others are poisonous. In the form of chlorine gas it is deadly, as well as being very reactive chemically. In the form of sodium chloride (the stuff in your salt shaker, which contains nearly 61% chlorine by weight) it is harmless. I don't know the complete chemistry of the hypochlorite ion (the active ingredient in bleach), but I think it has a negligible environmental impact when it's sufficiently diluted before being dumped down the drain. Our regulatory agencies may not be perfect, but does anyone think that they would allow chlorine bleach to be sold by the gallon in supermarkets if this were not the case? - --Greg ==================================================================== Gregory King Internet: gking at arserrc.gov Eastern Rgnl. Rsrch. Cntr., ARS, USDA Voice: (1) 215 233 6675 600 East Mermaid Lane Fax: (1) 215 233 6559 Philadelphia, PA 19118-2551 Disclaimer: Any opinions expressed in this message are mine. ==================================================================== Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1880, 11/10/95