---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Re:Valley Mill (Michael Cullen)
  ss secondary? (Robert Rogers)
  (no subject) (adamw)
  Zymurgy's articles about African beer and Toddy request ("Richard Okambawa")
  Re: More on carbonation ... experimenal result (J.D. Baldwin)
  corking bottle-condiitioned saison (John Jaser)
  Good Times hoax (m.bryson2)
  First lager (Mike Kidulich)
  *Very* Slow Start with Dry Yeast (John W. Braue, III)
  Stupid sink tricks - (was cleaning carboys), Zinc (Bob McCowan)
  Brew Cap? (Mike Adams)
  Warning:  Lacto Virus!!! (John DeCarlo                       )
  Hot/Cold Break, Pickle Buckets (Marty Tippin)
  HBD for 2/2,2/3,2/4 (Waverly)" <kbooth at isd.ingham.k12.mi.us>
  RE: galvanized pipes safe?  Give me a break... ("Keith Royster")
  Pickles and Fermentation (J. Matthew Saunders)
  Separating Hot Trub ("Kelsey, Timothy W.")
  Aeration & lipids again (Charlie Scandrett)
  Bruheat (the real thing) (Bob Noonan)
  Carbonation and Fill Level Data Point (John DeCarlo                       )
  Weihensteifen (sp?)-compatible recipes? (elpeters)
  Step Mash Question (RUSt1d?)
  Pickle buckets, etc. (Tom Messenger)
  re:  Bottle/Carboy washer problem (Neal Parker)
  high temp hoses (Bill Pemberton)
  Slow/no start with Scottish Ale Yeast (David Mercer)
  Bruheats, Blow-Off, and Yeast Rehydration (Kinney Baughman)
  New England Brewing Goldstock IPA (hadleyse)
  Attenmunster (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Hose storage (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Ice to cool wort (Tracy Thomason)
  mailing list (waltzb02)
  Nobody knows the trub I've seen (Kit Anderson)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 14:14:45 -0800 (PST)
From: mcullen at netcom.com (Michael Cullen)
Subject: Re:Valley Mill


John Parker quoted in HBD1953:

>In answer to your query, the rollers are made of steel tubing (the wall 
>thickness is approx. 1/8"). After the rollers are knurled (patterned), they 
>are nickel plated. This is not to be confused with chrome plating which is 
>not nearly as hard.
 
  huh?  Something is wrong here.  Usually chrome is harder than nickel.
  Even if a hard nickel bath was used the end product would only be
  (approx.) 43c Rockwell, while hard chrome is 64-70c Rockwell. 
  (decorative nickel is less than 20c Rockwell, I dont know how hard
  decorative chrome is.)(1)
  Nickel is actually the bright silver you see on car bumpers, and
  chrome is put on top of that to protect the nickel.
  Does anyone have this mill?  If the rollers are yellow, like tarnished
  silver they are nickel, if they are still bright - chrome.

  On cylinder walls and rollers, usually hard chrome is used.

>The nickel plated steel is sufficiently hard because first off, the knurling 
>process is done at high speed which gets the steel (which is high in nickel 
>content) very hot, then of course the nickel plating ensures a clean, 
>extremely hard coating. The plating also ensures the rollers will never 
>rust or become pitted from oxidization.

  this also is confusing.  more info please.  how does the knurling harden
  the steel?  I can't imagine it getting hotter than when it is formed or
  welded?  what kind of steel alloy has a significant amount of nickel?

  I dont mean to pick nits, but this is a topic that is close to home
  and kinda bugs me with misinformation.  Of course hard nickel may
  be harder than decorative chrome, and i'll have to eat my foot, if
  this is the case.
  I made my own mill, and i had the rollers nickel/chrome plated and 
  its holding up fine.  The main concern is the base metal.  You cant
  make steel softer by plating on it.  The plater could also be telling
  the manufacturer what he wants to hear.

  Jeez, this is getting off berwing.  
  
  mike
  mcullen at netcom.com
  long beach, ca
  (1) _Metal_Finishing_Guidebook_ Vol#57

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Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 19:47:15 -0500
From: bob at carol.net (Robert Rogers)
Subject: ss secondary?

i am having trouble locating a suitable container to use for a secondary
fermenter. i was thinking of a 5 gal stainless steel stock pot, and using
either hot glue or silicon caulk to seal the lid on (after making a hole for
an airlock). does anyone know of a better sealer, or should i hold out for
glass?

p.s. i need to move the beer out of the primary real soon now.

thanks for any help
bob rogers
bob at carol.net
"Why, Fritz, alcohol is a gift from God..."
   --young Fritz Maytag's Mom


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Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 11:15:07 -0800
From: adamw at cin.au.gov
Subject: (no subject)

boo



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Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 20:31:36 +0000
From: "Richard Okambawa" <okambawa at UQTR.UQuebec.ca>
Subject: Zymurgy's articles about African beer and Toddy request

Hi all
I need these articles in back issues of Zymurgy:

Spring 84 , vol 7, no 1
The African beer gardens of Bulawayo (Harry F. Walcott)
Brewing in the city of Bulawayo

Fall 86, vol 9, no 3
Tropical Toddy ( Mickael Jackson)
The coconut brew of Sri Lanka
Tuak-Toddy of the rice farmer (Melissa Ballard)

If you have these issues and can send me copies of the articles
by ordinary mail, please let me know it by private e-mail.

**************************************************
*   Richard Okambawa            |   President and brewmaster    * *   
   860 Ste Ursule                     |   Zymopolis Nanobrewery      * *  
   Trois-Rivieres, Quebec        |                                        
      * *   Canada  G9A 1P1               |   Home: (819) 693 6445    
   * *             Work: (819) 3765170 ext 3591                       
        * *   e-mail: richard_okambawa at uqtr.uquebec.ca                
 * **************************************************
 

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Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 21:55:17 -0500
From: baldwin at netcom.com (J.D. Baldwin)
Subject: Re: More on carbonation ... experimenal result

Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com> writes:
>I realize that there could be many other factors involved besides
>carbonation level, but the prima facia case is that the underfilled
>bottle appears to be very slightly more carbonated !!  This, I can't
>explain.

I can't offer a certain explanation, but I can offer what Papazian
describes as his "educated" guess: yeast perform better at lower
pressures.  The beer in the normally filled bottle built up pressure
more rapidly (with less headspace, an equal amount of gas released
will obviously cause more pressure sooner), thus the yeast in that
bottle stopped "working" that much sooner.  The fact that the
difference is not particularly dramatic would even account for the
fact that the effect you noticed is "slight."
- --
 From the catapult of J.D. Baldwin  |+| "If anyone disagrees with anything I
   _,_    Finger baldwin at netcom.com |+| say, I am quite prepared not only to
 _|70|___:::)=}-  for PGP public    |+| retract it, but also to deny under
 \      /         key information.  |+| oath that I ever said it." --T. Lehrer
***~~~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 22:25:18 -0500
From: John Jaser <jjaser at iconn.net>
Subject: corking bottle-condiitioned saison

A humble question for the mighty collective:

i've been trying to duplicate a nectar-like Belgian saison, namely =
Saison de Pipaix. (Brasserie Vapeur.)  Since i'll be doing a healthy =
Belgian-style bottle-priming, i'd like to also cork and cap the 750 ml =
champagne bottles, similar to the original product.  These bottles would =
then be laid down for six months to 6 years or so.  so i'm getting a bit =
paranoid about oxidation and infections and such.  Most of my anxiety is =
coming from the corks.  i understand that corks are "sulphured" or =
"sulphited" in manufacture.  i guess vinists soak the corks in a =
sulphite solution before corking.  my worry (make that "concern") is =
that sulphite kills yeast; the last thing i want to do to a bottle =
conditioned ale!  my inclination is to boil or steam the corks for 15 =
minutes.  but i heard cork can not be sterilized in such a way.

So...  how do i sterilize the darn corks?  ..and ... Are off-the-shelf =
corks sulfited in such a way that would be bad for bottle-condidtioned =
beer?

much thanks in advance!

John Jaser
jjaser at iconn.net

ps:  saison recipes and tips always welcome!

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Date: Tue,  6 Feb 96 03:34:00 UTC 0000
From: m.bryson2 at genie.com
Subject: Good Times hoax

   I'm going to waste a little more bandwidth. This virus keeps reanimating
like zombies in "Night of the Living Dead". We actually had our network
administrator- who should know better- post an email warning to everyone on
the system. Sigh. Maybe we coul drive a stake through its heart after sewing
rock salt in its mouth to finish it off.

   Now a brewing question:
 I recently bottled an ESB using WYeast's London Ale yeast. Being out of town
a lot, I left the beer sitting in the secondary for about 3 months before
bottling. After 3 weeks the beer has a somewhat off-taste that I cannot
place. If appropriate care is taken regarding temperature stability, light
protection and sanitation, should there be any problem leaving beer in the
secondary for such an extended length of time? Does anyone think that the
beer might mellow with age? It tastes pretty good anyway.

   TIA,

        Matthew W. Bryson

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Date: Mon, 05 Feb 96 23:38:50 -0500
From: Mike Kidulich <mjkid at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: First lager

- -- [ From: Mike Kidulich * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Greetings,

I am preparing to do my first lager (this is my third batch). I just
obtained a California Common kit, that includes hops, grains, malt extract,
and Wyeast California #2112 yeast. What temperature do I pitch at, and how
long will I need to wait before moving it to my basement? My basement has
been maintaining a relatively steady 58dF to 60dF. How long will the beer
need to ferment in the secondary? I also have an IPA kit, so I see a second
carboy in my future.

Also, what is a good method for removing pellet hops from the wort? I wound
up just dumping the whole mess into the primary when I did my last batch (a
very dark, dry stout), and racking the wort off the trub after one week.
Still had a lot of sediment in the secondary, and 24 hrs after bottling,
some of the bottles have a lot of sediment already.

TIA,

Mike Kidulich

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Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 07:29:27
From: braue at ratsnest.win.net (John W. Braue, III)
Subject: *Very* Slow Start with Dry Yeast

>"Susan M. Muzik" <sumuzik at teleport.com> writes:

>I am a novice homewbrewer and am puzzled by the fermentation differences 
>in dry vs. liquid yeast.
>
>Previously I have used a liquid yeast in a foil package #1028 London 
>English Ale which has a buldge inside that you pop and let sit 24 hrs 
>before adding to a starter of h20 and malt extract.  Fermentation has 
>always been completed in the 14 days as recommened.  No problem.
>
>Feeling brave, or just wanting to test my nerve, this time I used a dry 
>yeast which was simply disolved in 2 oz warm h20 15 minutes before pitching.
>
>For the first 8 days I saw nothing happening and was growing concerned 
>that either I missed the entire activity, or it was going to be a total 
>bust.  Finally on day 9 the bubbles were visible in the air lock device 
>and have continued with regularity since.  I am now on day 15 in the 
>fermeneter.  I use a single fermentation process and wonder when I might 
>expect the activity to subside.  Everything I've read indicates to wait 
>3-4 days after visible activity before bottling/proceeding.

Hmmm.  I have *never* heard of so slow a start to fermentation with
rehydrated ale yeast; 14 - 18 hours is typical in my experience.

The only question that I can think of off-hand (yeah, it's kind of
obvious, but ingoring the obvious can lead to overlooking facts
concealed in plain sight):  you did not rehydrate the yeast in
water so "warm" as to kill the yeast (and allow random chance knows
what to attack your wort)? 


- --
John W. Braue, III                      braue at ratsnest.win.net

"The water of England is not drinkable"
- -- Elizabeth of York in a letter to the Infanta Catalina of Aragon

I've decided that I must be the Messiah; people expect me to work 
miracles, and when I don't, I get crucified.

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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 07:49:29 -0500
From: Bob McCowan <bob.mccowan at cfrp.varian.com>
Subject: Stupid sink tricks - (was cleaning carboys), Zinc

Jay Reeves says to be careful about adding hot water to carboys.  I agree.  We
have kids and our hot water is set low enough so that 100% hot water still
won't burn you.  Maybe it's just "very warm".  We should all get Pyrex carboys.

As far a lifting full carboys onto the sink goes - don't do it.  Take the
carboy and set it on the counter next to the sink.  Take the handle off the
little sprayer used for rinsing dishes.  Stick the sprayer tubing into the
carboy and turn the water on.  Slower than a garden hose but it works.

As far as zinc goes, Noonan claims in "Brewing Lager Beers" that zinc  at .1
to .2 ppm is a yeast nutrient, but in excess of 1 ppm (~20 mg in a 5 gallon
batch) it is toxic to yeast. 

Bob

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob McCowan                            
                                      voice:  (508)-922-6000 x208
ATG/Receiver-Protector                fax:    (508)-922-8914
CPI BMD
Formerly Varian CF&RPP                e-mail: bob.mccowan at cfrp.varian.com
Beverly, MA  01915

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 08:28:32 -0500
From: mike at telesph.com (Mike Adams)
Subject: Brew Cap?

I'd like begin fermenting in carboys, but I don't really want to deal with
siphoning from one. I think siphoning is a pain, period. I'd like to get
some information from brew cap users. Thanks.

Mike.
___________________________________________________________________________
Mike Adams            mike at telesph.com           Telesphere Corporation
Manager,              xtalwind at interactive.net   1 State St. Plz., 22nd Flr
Tech. Documentation   (212) 487-2767             New York, NY 10004


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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 96 08:36:36 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at mitre.org>
Subject: Warning:  Lacto Virus!!!

Unscrupulous megabrewers and homebrewers hoping to eliminate competition 
have been sending the Lacto Virus around.

If you see the word "Lacto" or "Lactobacillus" in the subject of an e-mail 
message, DO NOT READ IT!!!!!!  It will immediately contaminate any beer in 
the fermenter or bottle with Lactobacillus, causing an overly sour beer. 
(If you are brewing a Wit or Berliner Weiss, you may wish to read it anyway,
but BE CAREFUL!!!!!!)

Many uninformed newbies have already been affected by this.  Spread the word
to all brewing clubs and homebrew shops.  Simply print out this message and 
post it on bulletin boards where appropriate.

Remember, sanitation is the most important part of brewing, whether in the 
kitchen or on the computer!

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo at mitre.org


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Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 07:38:43 -0600
From: Marty Tippin <martyt at sky.net>
Subject: Hot/Cold Break, Pickle Buckets

I just bottled my latest batch last night and was astonished at how clear it
was - usually, it takes several weeks in the bottle for my batches to get as
clear as this one was.  

I did a couple of things different on this batch and am trying to figure out
which one(s) contributed to this clear beer:

I made a manifold out of some 3/8" soft copper tubing with lots of small
holes drilled in the bottom, and attached it to the easy masher spigot
inside my kettle.  After the boil, I drained the kettle through the manifold
and into my newly constructed counterflow chiller and on to the fermenter.
(oh - I also left the hop plugs loose during the boil instead of in a bag).
After draining the kettle and having lots of trouble with the manifold
clogging, there was lots of gunk (hot break and the remains of 1 oz of
pellets I also used in the boil) and I didn't have nearly the amount of
break material in the fermenter as usual.

Normally, I use an immersion chiller in the kettle after the boil, have the
hops in a bag and just pour the whole thing into the fermenter after it's
cooled.  I usually wind up with a thick (like 4 to 6" deep) glob of break
material in the bottom of the fermenter which then floats to the top and
gets generally mixed around during the ferment, eventually settling back to
the bottom.  The result has been some less than sparkling beer, although
Polyclar and other agents used prior to bottling always seem to help.

*My* analysis is that the manifold helped strain out a lot of the hot break
material that normally goes into the fermenter and the absence of that hot
break is what helped make everything more clear.  The counterflow chiller
should have (and, in fact, may have) produced more cold break material than
the immersion chiller, but since I've been dumping the whole thing - hot and
cold break - into the fermenter, I never knew the difference.  

What do the rest of you think?  Did I do something right here or just get
lucky??  


On a totally unrelated note, Paul VanSlyke asks why one shouldn't use pickle
buckets for primary fermenters.

The general reasoning is that it's nearly impossible to get the pickle or
olive or whatever smell out of the buckets and you'll end up with
pickle-flavored beer.  Baloney.  I've been using several buckets for the
past year that were originally pickle containers and never was able to
notice any pickle aroma or flavor in my beer.  

It takes a little work, but ridding one of those buckets of most of the
pickle smell is no big deal.  Soak the bucket in a strong bleach solution
for several days, then rinse it and put in direct sunlight for a few more
days.  The UV from the sun does something to help get rid of the smell.  If
the smell is still there, wet the inside and sprinkle some baking soda on it
and wait another day or two.  By that point, most of the smell should be
gone - anything that remains certainly won't be enough to mess with the
flavor of your beer.  After fermenting a couple of batches in the bucket,
the pickle smell will be history.


 -Marty


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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 08:46:57 -0500 (EST)
From: "Kathy Booth (Waverly)" <kbooth at isd.ingham.k12.mi.us>
Subject: HBD for 2/2,2/3,2/4

	I failed to receive HBD transmissions for the above dates.  
Was my problem local or did others have that problem?  Respond Private
	Thanks  Jim Booth

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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 08:42:19 -0500
From: "Keith Royster" <keith.royster at ponyexpress.com>
Subject: RE: galvanized pipes safe?  Give me a break...

> I am not a medical doctor so what follows is strictly my opinion. 
> I will apologize right away for a waste of bandwidth. 

No bandwidth wasted.  Your opinion is as valid as mine =)

> However, I
> can't sit idle when I read stuff like this.  Keith thinks that zinc
> in his beer, leeched from galvanized pipes, might be good fo rhim.
> Well, after a nice treatise on zinc in a persons diet, and the
> warning about the effects of too much zinc, Keith concludes that
> galvanized pipes must be ok to use. 

Not 'must' be OK.  I beleive I said probably, or something to that 
effect.  I drew no definative conclusions, only informed opinions.

> Where do we learn how much zinc
> gets into the wort?  

We (I) didn't.  I even asked if someone else knew this information.
But I do know that it is safe to use copper or aluminum kettles, and
both of those elements are important in our diets at low levels and
also toxic at higher levels.  Now I know I can't just assume that
zinc dissolves at a similar rate as copper or aluminum, and I don't
know how their good VS toxic levels compare, but I'm willing to bet
that they are similar enough that, adding that zinc's toxic level is
a factor of AT LEAST ten times that of its RDA level, there is no
serious health risk.  And I had discussions with many other HBDers
who basically agreed that the risk was more of a ruined beer nature
(metallic taste) than a ruined health nature.  BTW, I have been using 
my boiling kettle with about 6 inches of galvanized pipe inside of it 
as a pickup/siphon for the spigot and noone's died yet ;)

> How do we know if some other compound in the
> galvanized pipes is unsafe? 

Galvanized pipes are zinc coated iron pipes.  What else is there?

> I don't know about this comment but I sure am
> suspicious: 'Whats good for us in small doses must be good for the
> yeast'. 

Again, I beleive I said 'probably' not 'must'.  I tried to be clear 
in my post when I was drawing conclusions and when I was expressing 
informed opinions. 

> Let me ask this, are there galvanized pipes in restaurant
> kitchens or in residential kitchens?

Galvanized piping does exist that delivers potable (drinkable) water
to you.  In fact, as I mentioned in my post, David Miller even 
mentions that these pipes are of no concern to brewers becuase they 
do not leach zinc into the drinking water.  Of course, wort is a 
different story becuase of its lower pH.

> I'll just bet there is a
> good reason for this and it isn't some over-reaction.

You make your bets and I'll make mine.  You obviously view me as
careless and I view you as overreactionary.  Everyone has different
tolerances of risk.  I did my research, and made some assumptions,
and have concluded that my risk is insignificant.  I would just like
to point out that, while I supported my *opinions* with facts and
information, you have not offered any new information, only fear of
the unknown.

> I sure am glad that Keith is not in my home-brew club. Adam Rich 

I'll not take that personally and assume that you mean that you 
wouldn't want to drink my beer, not that you wouldn't want to know me 
=)  

Keith Royster   - Keith.Royster at ponyexpress.com
 at your.service   - The Affordable Web Page Provider
Mooresville, NC - Specializing in small and medium sized businesses.
Check us out at - http://www.wp.com/ at your.service/
    Voice & Fax - (704) 663-1098

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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 09:06:04 +0100
From: saunderm at vt.edu (J. Matthew Saunders)
Subject: Pickles and Fermentation

Paul VanSlyke writes:

>I have read previously about using food grade plastic buckets for primary
>fermentation but just the other day J. Matthew Saunders stated that one
>should not use a bucket that contained pickles or olives - why?

There are two reasons not to use a food grade pail that contained pickles
or olives.

1)  They have a strong flavour that lingers in the bucket and can create
off flavours in your beer.

2)  (This may well be my own paranoia.....) You want to keep wort (beer)
and must (wine) away from vinegar.  Vinegar is basically the same thing as
wine (or beer I suppose, though I've never heard of beer vinegar) but the
beasties that convert it are different.  Those beasties will happily turn a
lovely batch of Bitter or Stout into vinegar rather than yummy home-brew.

I'm curious to hear from others in the collective as to whether my second
suspicion is valid.  Can a pail that held vinegar be trusted?

Cheers!
Matthew.

=====================================================================
          "Burn it, son, burn it.  Fire is a great refiner."

                          J. Matthew Saunders
                            saunderm at vt.edu

      http://fbox.vt.edu:10021/S/saunderm/index.html/page_1.html
======================================================================



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Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 09:03:00 -0800 (PST)
From: "Kelsey, Timothy W." <Kelsey at PO.AERS.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Separating Hot Trub


I need some advice on how best to separate hot trub
from wort.  I use an 8 gallon enamel canning kettle for a
brew pot, and an immersion wort cooler.  Is it better to:

1) install a spigot in the side of the kettle, whirl-pool the
wort, and then drain it into the carboy?

    BUT: how do I install such a spigot without it leaking?
    Where do I find such a spigot?  An easy-masher would
    be possible, but I don't need it for mashing- I have a
    slotted manifold in my Gott cooler and use steam
     injection for step-mashing.  Any cheaper alternatives?

2) forget installing the spigot, and simply whirlpool and
siphon the cooled wort into the carboy?

   BUT: how do I start such a siphon without contaminating
   the wort?  When siphoning from a carboy I usually use a
   carboy cap and sanitized milk jug (like suggested in
   Brewing Techniques several issues ago).  I had used
   Charlie Papazian's "water in the siphon hose" technique
   previously, but am leery of using it with unfermented
   wort.  Needless to say, sucking on the siphon hose is
   also out.

Which would you recommend?  Thanks for the help.

Tim

Timothy W. Kelsey                 Dept of Agricultural Economics
kelsey at po.aers.psu.edu                             & Rural Sociology
(814) 865-9542                                       Penn State University

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Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 00:32:03 +1100
From: merino at cynergy.com.au (Charlie Scandrett)
Subject: Aeration & lipids again

Jonathon Mohn posted
JM>On the other side of the coin, there are some who believe that aeration /
JM>oxygenation is not required at all, especially if you pitch adequate
levels JM>of yeast.  They argue that aeration results in longer lag times,
as the yeast
JM>metabolize the sugars aerobically.

Tracy Aquilla replies
TA>I agree with the first part of this statement, but not the last sentence.
TA>Aeration makes the yeast grow faster and thus decreases lag time.

I have found clear references in "Brewing" by Lewis and Young that aeration
is very necessary for the assimilation of *saturated* fatty acids. From
other references in Malting and Brewing Science I wouldn't want anything but
traces of those left in the beer.
I seem also to keep reading passing references to the negative effects of
*too fast* a ferment, caused by a combination of excess O2, excess Amino
acids, and excess lipids? Noone explains how but it apparently produces off
flavours at the expense of alcohol?

Jonathon also posts,
JM>I've recently read that worts with little trub require considerable
JM>aeration in order to saturate with the correct amounts of oxygen.  In fact,
JM>I've read that it is not possible to appropriately oxygenate such wort
JM>through aeration, and that pure oxygen should be introduced.

I'd like the reference for that, as I'm investigating lipids. I think that
yeast, like us, are basically lazy and use unsaturated lipids first. If they
can't assimilate enough unsaturated fatty acids and sterols, they sythesise
them with O2 from saturated ones. Cold break is another source of lipids (in
colloidal suspension), without it *in a wort with low soluble lipids* (very
important) yeast needs to use lots of O2 to assimilate saturated lipids to
synthesise unsaturated ones and sterols for cell building. (BTW yeast also
excrete both kinds) 
I'm coming to the opinion that low soluble lipids is a "good thing", because
cold break can be used as a secondary source. The advantage of cold break as
a source is that the unused lipids can be removed after lag by removing the
cold break, enhancing head and staling stability.

Charlie (Brisbane, Australia)


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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 09:44:40 -0500
From: Bob Noonan <bnoonan at acadia.net>
Subject: Bruheat (the real thing)

Hi Buds:

I'm new to this posting thing . But here goes.
In HB digest #1959 Rob Lawson in part writes:
(snip)
>My UK product was changed to 120V for the NA market.  I
>used it with the brewbag of solid sailcloth sides with a mesh bottom.  =
This
>maintained such a magnificent variety of different temperatures =
throughout
>the mash that I now use it only for collecting sparge water
(snip)
The real Bruheat manufactured by Ritchie in Burton on Trent and =
distrubuted by Brewco in the U.S. is a 220v Unit with a 2400 watt =
element. Using the formular Power(P) =3D Amps(I) x Volts(e):  at 220 volts  =
amp draw =3D 2400/220 =3D 10.9 Amps BUT at 110 Volts Amps =3D 2400/110 =
=3D 21.8 Amps. This amperage usually not availabe from the run of the =
mill 110 home circuit.
=20
I suspect that Rob either doesn't have a Bruheat or he's been robed.

I mash, Sparge, and Boil in my Bruheat and love it. During the mash I =
check the temp. every 15 to 20 min. and have found temp. regulation to =
be very good.

So to the person planing to get a Bruheat , go for it.

The usual disclaimers apply.

Bob Noonan

 -So many beers, so little time! -

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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 96 10:25:33 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at mitre.org>
Subject: Carbonation and Fill Level Data Point

I have only had two bottles crack/explode on me (I keep all in sturdy 
cardboard boxes with lids, and never saw/heard one actually explode, but saw
the results later).  Both were the last bottle filled, half full or less.

Up to then I never worried about it, but now I use that last half-full 
bottle to taste the beer early.

Two hypotheses come to mind, though.  This is the last bottle filled and 
occasionally (usually?) may have more sugar in it due to my batch-priming 
method that may leave some residue on the bottom of the bottling bucket.  Or
the fill-level may be significant.

I think it would be important to ensure that experiments eliminate the 
"too much sugar at end of bottling" possibility.

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo at mitre.org


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Date: Tue,  6 Feb 96 10:29:42 EST
From: elpeters at srel.edu
Subject: Weihensteifen (sp?)-compatible recipes?

Hi all,

I have a package of Wyeast Weihensteifen liquid yeast that I need to
use up. I have only used their Bavarian Wheat yeast before (probably
because I CAN spell 'Bavarian'). Anyone have any recipes that will
be enhanced by my using this yeast, or should I just try it with one of my
tried-and-true wheat beer recipes?  TIA

Eric elpeters at srel.edu

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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 10:39:47 -0500
From: RUSt1d? <rust1d at swamp.li.com>
Subject: Step Mash Question

In Charlies book, in the step mashing chart, for 8 lbs:

8 qts 130=B0F water - mash in to reach 122=B0F.
4 qts 200=B0F water - added to reach 150=B0F.

The 8 qts 130=B0F water and 8 lbs grains does settle  at  122=B0F, however
adding 4 qts 200=B0F water does not settle  at  150=B0F, but rather 140=B0F.

He mentions 18=B0F temp rise for 1/2 qt water per pound of grain.

Do I need to heat the mash up to 132=B0F and then add the 4 qts 200=B0F=
 water?

This has caused me a couple of headaches, but no bad beer.

T&A,

John Varady
Big Belly Homebrew - It'll grow on you.

(yes, T&A).

Big Belly Homebrew - It'll grow on you.

**************************
** rust1d at li.com        **=20
** John Nicholas Varady **
** Eve Courtney Hoyt    **
**************************=20

http://www.netaxs.com/people/vectorsys/index.html




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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 07:56:54 -0800
From: Tom Messenger <kmesseng at slonet.org>
Subject: Pickle buckets, etc.

Paul VanSlyke wrote: I have read previously about using food grade plastic
buckets for primary fermentation but just the other day J. Matthew Saunders
stated that one should not use a bucket that contained pickles or olives - why?

A friend gave me two buckets once: a pickle bucket and a pepperoncini
bucket. They had very strong odors of their former contents.  I bleached
'em, used TSP on 'em, put both bleach and TSP in 'em, left 'em in the
sunlight and still after two weeks of this treatment, they smelled strongly
of pickles and pepperoncinis. Then, I made beer in 'em.

The beer tasted fine. Absolutely no pickle or pepper flavors (damn!). After
bottling the beer, the buckets had that wonderful smell of a bucket just
used for brewing - sort of hoppy, malty, yeasty aroma.  Two weeks later, I
brewed another batch and got the pickle bucket out to use. It reeked of
pickles. I used it anyway and the beer was fine. 

Now after three years the smell is just about gone. If I had my choice of
free buckets, I would choose sweeter smelling ones but these two certainly
have worked out.  Under no means would I ever use buckets that had non food
items like detergent, chemicals, etc.

By the way, a local doughnut shop sells their buckets for a buck. And they
clean them first. They get them with fruit filling. I picked up four to
store grain in to keep the mice out. There's nothing quite like seeing a
mouse go through your malt mill.

Brew Early and Brew Often!




- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Messenger, Los Osos, California, USA *** kmesseng at slonet.org
- ----------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 96 11:56:50 EST
From: NParker at Lockheed.on.ca (Neal Parker)
Subject: re:  Bottle/Carboy washer problem

Dave Boccuti writes:
>I have had a problem with the "Jet carboy  bottle washer"  ever since I
>bought it. The product really does work well, HOWEVER every time I take a
>bottle off of the pin, I get a HUGE water hammer. I'm afraid that this will
>harm my copper plumbing. (It's also annoying to others in the same home). 
 
I solved this problem by attatching a "Y" fitting (used for garden hoses) to my
tap.  The Jet washer goes on one spigot.  On the other spigot I have a rubber
hose with a garden sprayer nozzle / gun.  

The combo gives me bottle washing and a way to fill carboys / 
spray clean things without having to undo anything.
AND there's no water hammer because the rubber hose absorbs the pressure wave.

Neal Parker
Lockheed Martin Canada
Kanata, Ontario, Canada

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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 11:34:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Pemberton <wfp5p at tigger.itc.virginia.edu>
Subject: high temp hoses

What type of hoses do folks use for high temperature stuff (like sparge
water, siphon after the boil, etc)?  I've looked around and I can't find
anything that looks very good that is both ok for drinking water and able to
deal with the temperatures.   Here's what I've found:

polyethylene - This is a milky white tubing that is listed as drinking water
               safe.  It works ok, but is brittle and cracks quickly if used
               at high temps.
	       
PVC - I found a braided tubing that works pretty well, but I'm not sure it's
      cool for drinking water.
      
vinyl - The standard tubing that all brew stores carry (right?  I think
        they're usually vinyl).  This stuff gets REAL soft at sparge
        temperatures.  Not sure it would work well at all at boiling
        temperatures....
	
Anyhow, what type of hoses do other folks use for these sorts of
applications?  Is the PVC safe to use for brewing?

- --
Bill


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Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 09:22:53 -0800
From: dmercer at path.org (David Mercer)
Subject: Slow/no start with Scottish Ale Yeast

I have a fermentation worry.  I brewed a sortofakindofa Scottish strong ale
over the weekend (or more correctly, I mashed the grains, boiled the wort,
and pitched the yeast). This is a first for me with this yeast (Wyeast
Scottish, I forget the number). I ended up with a fairly big starter (big
for me, at least - about 200ml of slurry in 700ml of wort with a subsiding
kreusen. The product of two step-ups from the slap pack, the second step-up
consisting of pouring new wort on the slurry of the first).  I found a nice
cool uninsulated closet in my basement to store it during primary
(maintaining a constant 58F, which I have been led to believe is the proper
temp for this yeast, although the starter was cultured between 65-68F).

Anyway, this ale is high gravity with a lot of fermentables (and
non-fermentables).  It should be going like gangbusters by now. But the
yeast has done nothing in 48 hours.  Nothing.  Might as well have been sand
I poured in there.  Should I move it back to my usual fermenting corner
(temp ~68F), should I wait, or should I rouse the critters, or what? 

Perplexed in cold, wet, Seattle.

Dave M.


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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 14:19:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Kinney Baughman <krb at porter.appstate.edu>
Subject: Bruheats, Blow-Off, and Yeast Rehydration

Jeff Hewit says:
>I plan to make a heavy duty (12 guage) extension
>cord with a dryer plug on one end, and whatever outlet is
>needed on the other.  Does this sound OK, so far? 

This is what I've done for my electric stove.  You can buy a 220 
receptacle (single or dual) that looks very much like a 110 receptacle 
except one and or both of the terminals are parallel to the floor 
instead of vertical to the floor as is the case with 110.  House the 
receptacle in a plastic utility box (the box you would nail to the 
side of a stud if you were installing a receptacle in a house).  For 
my purposes, this gives me a convenient outlet that sticks out from under 
the stove, making it easy to plug and unplug the Bruheat when needed
during the brewing process. 

>In previous
>discussion on electric boilers, someone (sorry, I forget who)
>sugggested including a ground fault interupter (GFI) in the
>circuit.  This sounds like a good idea, but I'm not sure how to
>do this.  

Probably a good idea.  At the same time, I've been using the 
arrangement described above for 15 years with no problems.

Then Rob Lariston says:

>Bruheat is such a catchy name, that spelling errors would catch a few
>different products.  My UK product was changed to 120V for the NA market.  I
>used it with the brewbag of solid sailcloth sides with a mesh bottom.  This
>maintained such a magnificent variety of different temperatures throughout
>the mash that I now use it only for collecting sparge water.  I took the
>trouble to clad it in wood.  But until I add acid to my sparge, this
>equipment is useless for me.  YMMV, of course.

You're talking about the Electrim Boiler, a Johnny Come Lately to the 
electric boiler market.  They have since removed the 110 version of 
this product from the market because of all the problems people were 
having with it.  Please don't confuse it with the Bruheat, a product 
that's been on the US market for 16 years and who knows how many years 
before that in England. 

Since I haven't posted in a while, a couple comments on previous 
threads: 

(1) To blow or not to blow:  I've always advised people to taste the 
brown scum on top of the kreusen head when deciding whether or not to 
use the blow-off method.  In short, I use the blow-off method!!

(2) From time to time at Cottonwood, we use dried yeast because of the 
peculiarities of our brewing system and the difficulty we have with 
harvesting yeast given our fermenters.  FWIW, Lallemand's Nottingham 
and Windsor are exceptionally good dried yeasts.

With the onset of winter, we noticed longer lag times and generally 
sluggish ferments.  Upon calling the labs, we discovered that the 
water we used to rehydrate our yeast had gotten too cold.  (We left 
our boiled rehydration water in capped bottles on a shelf in the 
brewing room which sometimes gets quite cold in the winter time.)  We 
were advised to rehydrate the yeast in 104 degree water! 

Now this went counter to my intuitions regarding how hot yeast should 
get and 104 degrees seemed awfully hot to me.  I was told that 
dehydrated yeast have a kind of "memory" for the last temperature they 
saw before going into dehydrated suspended animation and 104 degrees 
is the temperature they remember.  

When next we rehydrated, we went for 104 degrees and got a rocking 
start-off and very healthy fermentation.

I'd go so far as to say that rehydrating at 104 degrees is more 
important than using two packets of yeast given the kind of 
performance we've witnessed at Cottonwood labs!

Tracy Aquilla.  Not since George Fix joined our ranks has the HBD been 
graced with such informative posts.  Thanks.  We're overjoyed to have 
you on board. 

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Kinney Baughman                      |      Beer is my business and
  krb at porter.appstate.edu              |      I'm late for work.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 96 15:51:22 EST
From: hadleyse at pweh.com
Subject: New England Brewing Goldstock IPA

Does anyone have any information on the hops used in this brew.  Its
very tasty with a unique hop flavor and aroma.

Thanks,

Scott Hadley    Hartford, CT

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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 96 16:34:23 -0600
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: Attenmunster

Greetings:

        I am asking for any information on a beer that I like a lot. It's
name is Attenmunster. It comes in a brown flip-top style bottle. It is
brewed and bottled in Germany by a private brewer Franz Joseph Salier,
Marktoberdorf, Germany.

        My guess is a Munich Helles.  Why? It is light colored, with low hop
flavor and aroma and has a wonderful malt flavor.  I could drink 5 gals. of
this and still want more.  That's what I am getting at.  I would like to be
able to make something like this.  Maybee not exactly like this but close.
        
        This beer seems to be readily available, most good stores and
grocerys have it as a regular shelf item.  First chance I get I am going to
get the stocker and ask if he has any info on it.

        One thing that is very strange, I noticed some tiny dark specks in
the beer, the first time I thought it was something wrong.  I was drinking
it in a very clear small 200ml glass and I noticed the specks.  Since then I
have checked other bottles and they all have the specks.  I think it is part
of the flavoring, but what?  Anyone out there in hinterland have any info?
It would be greatly appreciated.

Ron


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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 96 16:52:52 -0600
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: Hose storage

Greetings:

        For a long time I stored my racking hose after shaking it dry.  But
it was really not dry.  No matter what I did, there were always drops of
water still there.  I thought they would evaporate but days would go by and
the water was still there. So I must admit I was --- er, oh well, --
WORRIED.  Sorry, but the truth hurts.  I thought that if days went by that
some infection would somehow appear.

        Then one day I was playing arround getting ready to rack, I filled
the hose and was going to connect to the racking cane and then proceed to
rack the beer from the carboy. At that moment I noticed that I could connect
the racking cane and rotate the whole thing and add more water and
completely fill the cane and hose up fully.  Then I could connect each end
of the cane to an end of the hose.

        Thats it! Now to store my hose, I fill it up with idophor, connect
the racking cane, rotate a little, fill completely, then connect both ends.
I leave the small cap off and this allows the tubing to connect at each end.
Now I have the neatest triangle loop completely filled with idophor that I
can store and good bye WORRY.
          

  Ronald J. La Borde       "If the only tool you have is a hammer,
  Metairie, LA              you tend to view every problem as a nail."
  
 


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Date: 06 Feb 96 17:56:35 EST
From: Tracy Thomason <102472.1404 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Ice to cool wort


I've heard & read that you should not pour your hot wort over ice to cool it
before pitching the yeast, but can anyone tell me WHY?  People have told me that
"you just don't" but that's not the answer I'm looking for.

I understand there can be problems with sterilization, but what if the water was
boiled before it was frozen?

I also read that the the faster you cool off the wort, the clearer the beer will
be due to the cold break effect.

Thanks,
Tracy Thomason
102472.1404 at compuserve.com


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Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 18:02:47 -0600 (CST)
From: waltzb02 at VAXA.CIS.UWOSH.EDU
Subject: mailing list





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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 19:06:07 -0500
From: Kit Anderson <kit at maine.com>
Subject: Nobody knows the trub I've seen

I have been reading all the messages on hot and cold break removal.
It seems as though it is more important to get the wort off the hot break
than the cold break. 

Is there any difference between the two break materials? 

I normally drain the chilled wort off the hot AND cold break. Does the hot
break go back into solution as the wort chills? 


- -------


Kit Anderson					  
Bath, Maine					 
<kit at maine.com>                                
The Maine Brew Page  http://www.maine.com/brew


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