HOMEBREW Digest #2335 Tue 04 February 1997

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]


	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@ brew.oeonline.com
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  AlK responds fully ("David R. Burley")
  Re: Priming (Jeff Renner)
  Easymasher quirks solved (Todd Bruce)
  Enter the Seventh Annual March MashFest (Scott Mills)
  Recipe Request ("Clifford A. Hicks")
  Final gravityfor IPA? (Bruce Silver)
  Gambrinus Honey Malt                                              . ("Raymond Estrella")
  CO2-purged carboys (Harlan Bauer)
  Sanitary Yeast Harvesting (Heiner Lieth)
  RE: creating a better environment (Heiner Lieth)
  Some yeast question and answer (Jeremy Bergsman)
  Wort Chilling and Recirc (RUSt1d?)
  Re: unknown pleasures (Dckdog)
  NEED to judge (hollen)
  Lactating mothers and stout! (Tony Owens)
  Al K ("Raymond Estrella")
  Dyeing to know, Clinit*st ("David R. Burley")
  Re:  Allergies, beer (Steve Alexander)
  Clear Beer from Kegs, and Skunkiness (Peter M Garofalo)
  Paulener Wheat ("The Romano's")
  Re: Freshman Digest (Ron Karwoski)
  Re: Freshman Digest (Ron Karwoski)
  Be careful ("Braam Greyling")
  Nicely Hopped in Kenya (Russ Kruska)
  Paddles (Zurekbrau)

NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS: brew.oeonline.com Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at brew.oeonline.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ brew.oeonline.com BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), you must unsubscribe by sending a one line e-mail to listserv at ua1vm.ua.edu that says: UNSUB BEER-L Thanks to Pete Soper, Rob Gardner and all others for making the Homebrew Digest what it is. Visit the HBD Hall of Fame at: http://brew.oeonline.com/ If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org ARCHIVES: An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at ftp.stanford.edu. Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full e-mail address as the password, look under the directory /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory. AFS users can find it under /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer. If you do not have ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail service at gatekeeper.dec.com. For information about this service, send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with the word "help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 01 Feb 97 14:50:28 EST From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM> Subject: AlK responds fully Brewsters: AlK responded to several issues in a Looong post, so I will break them out into topics so that you with PgDn keys can use them as desired. - -------------------------------------------------- Magnesium Bitterness discussion: AlK said: > Dave writes: > >>" Finally, let's do a reality check on our posts before we jump all over Al, Actually, Al, you said this about yourself when you finished presenting your Epsom Salts taste experiment on water - not beer.. I said: > >I didn't see any jumping going on by anyone, just commenting. As I recall > >though, you said that magnesium didn't contribute to the bitterness, just the > >sulfate. Al said: > Any homebrewing book will tell > you that it's the sulphate. I say: Apparently the sea salt industry disagrees with this as a recent HBDer commented that the industry tries to remove the magnesium since it gives the table salt a bitter taste. It is interesting that most books I read are silent on the subject but the ones who aren't say magnesium is bitter. A very recent book (1996, Storey) by Lee W. Janson called "Brew Chem 101" says on page 15 the following: "MAGNESIUM (Mg++) Essential for yeast metabolism. In small amounts increases beer flavor. In excess amounts, gives strong bitter flavor. SULFATE (SO4 ^ -2) Gives very sharp dry full flavor to beer. Coupled with sodium , gives a noticeable harshness." Dr. Janson holds a PhD in biological sciences and biochemistry, is a homebrewer and a certified beer judge. - ----------------------------- Skunkiness of European beers sold in the US in green glass: > Read the article in the second from last Zymurgy... the one with the > *skunk* on the cover. I did and Peter Ensminger did a good job on what he was talking about - Skunkiness ( or Cattiness in the UK) caused by light. I have no disagreement that beer can be skunked by light. That has been known for decades. My point, as has been made by others here, is that the packaging is virtually light-tight on some of these beers, yet these beers are subject to what some call skunkiness. This is the puzzle. Does anybody remember if Miller HIgh Life, when it was the "Champagne of Bottled Beers" and came in clear glass bottles, was skunked? I wasn't tuned into this fault at this time , so can't comment, but don't remember it being that way. I wonder if there are several faults with bad taste, related to different mercaptans and having different causes that people call skunky? > Oh, and contrary to what Bud ads imply, skunkiness has nothing to do > with age and Bud is no less susceptable to it than other brown-bottled > beers sitting under fluorescent lights in the store. Well, you may be right, but something is going on. A Pilsner Urquell six-pack that started out really good for the first few bottles, after sitting in the fridge for a couple of months, developed a bad taste that some might call skunky. Maybe this answers that age old question. The light IS on when the door to the fridge is closed!....... - -------------------------------------------- Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Voice e-mail OK Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 15:35:21 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Priming In Homebrew Digest #2331 Adam Rich <ar at crocus.medicine.rochester.edu> says: > Here is a simple question about priming that I have after reading >David Draper's Preferred PRiming Procedure (at the Brewery). Th etake-home >message is that my ale has CO2 dissolved in it before I add the priming >sugar, and this amount of CO2 will depend on the temperature. Now, I need >to subtract that amount from the amount of CO2 that I want in my finished >ale, at SERVING TEMPERATURE. > So, from his chart I get 0.93 volumes of CO2 dissolved in my ale at >20C. I want 2 volumes in my British Style Ale. BUT, do I want 2 volumes at >20C, or do I want 2 volumes at 16 degrees C? > From the euqation Priming Rate = (V - Vo)/0.27027 I calculate that I >will need to add 4.14 gm/l (or 78.35 grams./5 gallons or 2.764 ounces/5 >gallons). This is all at room temperature. Do I need to tak einto account >that this ale will eb refridgerated? > The colder temperature will allow more CO2 to dissolve into the ale, >and will it therefore make it less carbonated then I want? > I know, I have taken a very simple part of brewing and complicated >it! Sorry, I have a knack for this but it seems to be a reasonable question! >thanks, Sorry to have to repeat all of this, but I wanted to show how complicated it is when we use this antiquated English method of volumes and STP, etc. I repeat my suggestion that we just convert the whole matter to dissolved CO2 by percent, or grams CO2/100 g beer. It seems like prima facie evidence when Rich with his PhD (presumably in a science) and Spencer with his PhD in mathematics get confused. We just need a pressureXtemperature chart giving dissolved CO2, per cent CO2 for different styles, and remember that 1 g sugar gives 0.46 g CO2. Anybody want to make up these chart? Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 12:32:06 -0800 From: Todd Bruce <tbruce at webbert.sdc.cio.eds.com> Subject: Easymasher quirks solved I've been using JM Easymasher(tm) in my mash tun for some time now and I'm very happy with its performance. I have experienced clear running wort with only 8oz of recirculation and have never had a stuck sparge. But.. like many before me, I was frustrated with the air bubbles forming in the hose because of the "ridge" on the tap. Also, I had a hard time adjusting the outflow especially when the tap was hot from heating. I've solved these quirks by replacing the tap with a 1/4" ball valve and a hose barb for about $10. Following is the materials list if your interested: 1/4" threaded ball valve ($6) 1/4x1/4 hose barb ($1.50) 1/4x1/8 pipe reducing nipple ($1) 1 nylon or fiber washer (3/8 id) plumbing tape or compound Attach the nipple to the ball valve and insert the 1/8" nipple end into the hole you drilled into your kettle. Then attach the compression fitting, washer and screen assembly from Easymasher(tm) to the 1/8" nipple. On the other side of the ball valve attach the hose barb and your vinyl tubing. Voila! You have excellent flow control and and the hose barb provides a airtight fit. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 12:56:10 -0700 From: Scott Mills <smills at boris.WEBACCESS.NET> Subject: Enter the Seventh Annual March MashFest Seventh Annual March MashFest March 22, 1997 The Mash Tongues of Fort Collins, Colorado invite you to enter our Seventh Annual March Mashfest. We will accept all homebrewed beer and mead. This competition is sanctioned by the AHA. The number of Categories will be determined after all of the entries are received. Historically we have had around a dozen Categories. Medals will be awarded to 1st, 2nd, & 3rd place entries in each Category, as well as for Best of Show in Beer and Mead. Cool prizes will also be obtained from local microbreweries, brew stores, and micro-oriented taverns to accompany the medals. One first place winner will be selected to work with the Brewers at Dimmer's Brewpub in Fort Collins to scale up their recipe and brew it at Dimmers! You can get complete information about the MashFest and download an entry packet from the Mash Tongues club Web Page at; http://www.fortnet.org/~smills/masht.html Or, if you prefer you can contact us via US Mail, E-Mail, or Phone and we will mail you a packet. Hurry!! The deadline for entries is March 8, 1997. For more information check the Web Page or contact; Scott Mills 7512 Leslie Drive Loveland, CO 80537 970-669-6088 smills at fortnet.org Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 18:23:53 -0500 From: "Clifford A. Hicks" <74631.2471 at compuserve.com> Subject: Recipe Request Anyone got a good clone recipe for a Sam Adams Boston Lager? Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 19:17:42 -0600 From: Bruce Silver <preacher4031 at earthlink.net> Subject: Final gravityfor IPA? Hello fellow homebrewers. I've been "lurking" and have a question. Five days ago I brewed an IPA (Yippee IPA from 'The Homebrewer's Recipe Guide) Got it at a used book store for $4. My question has to do with final gravity. This is my first IPA and I am a little confused. I racked to seconday today and the SG was 1.005. It started at 1.069. It seems that the attenuation is really high. Why? Was it the liquid yeast I used for the first time (Wyeast 1056) or is my hydromiter messed up or am I just having a bad flashback? I hadn't even begun the Golden rule yet so that was not a factor. Thanks in advance for the advice. HBD is a great gift and everyone adds a lot, I have learned very much in the last two months. Bruce Silver "The homebrewin' beer drinkin' Presbyterian Minister" Isaiah 40:31 Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 97 02:01:05 UT From: "Raymond Estrella" <ray-estrella at msn.com> Subject: Gambrinus Honey Malt . Hello to all. I have been lurking, and reading the archives for over a year now, and have learned a lot from you guys. Thanks. But now a question. Looking at my comment sheets from contest entries, and observing fellow judges at competitions, a lot of emphasis is put on bottle fill. Even though it is not supposed to effect scoring many judges start looking for problems in a bottle that is not a 1/2 inch from the top. I keg 95% of my beer, and use a counter pressure filler for competition samples. I find it very difficult to fill the bottles up to that level. Does anyone have any suggestions. Also, Tom Galley asked about Gambrinus Honey malt. I bought 10 pounds of it this year and have used it in a couple of brews. It does give a lingering, very sweet taste to your beers. I got it from HopTech. (1-800-379-4677 ) Thanks in advance, Ray Estrella, Cottage Grove MN ray-estrella at msn.com ******* Never relax, constantly worry, have a better homebrew.******* Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 23:32:14 -0600 From: blacksab at midwest.net (Harlan Bauer) Subject: CO2-purged carboys Val asks: >For my question of the day-I always purge my 5 gallon carboy with CO2 >when I rack to secondary. I've always used 15 PSI for about a minute. >Is that enough?? Am I wasting my time and CO2? All input will be taken >with appreciation and maybe other "inquiring minds want to know"!! I think purging with CO2 is a good idea. Here's how I do it: 1. Fill carboy with Iodophor solution. 2. Attach a carboy cap (those two-holed orange thingys) with a racking cane pushed thru the bigger hole and CO2 to the other. 3. Push Iodophor out the one carboy with CO2 into another clean one. Then you end up with a CO2-filled carboy and an Iodophor-filled carboy. Sanitary transfers and no air. BTW, there was a good article on this method in BT some time last year. And DON'T tape the carboy cap down--if it pops off, you're using too much pressure. That's your safty release to keep the carboy from going kablooey! ttyl, Harlan ********************************************************************* * * * Harlan Bauer ...malt does more than Milton can * * Carbondale, IL To justify God's ways to man. * * <blacksab at midwest.net> --A.E. Houseman * * * ********************************************************************* Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 22:41:59 -0800 (PST) From: Heiner Lieth <lieth at telis.org> Subject: Sanitary Yeast Harvesting Tom Williams <brewman at wwnet.com> wrote: >Just a quick question ... is it necessary (or advised) to flame the mouth of >the secondary prior to transferring yeast to storage? I'm not sure if these >carboys are up to the heat stress or not. What do others do to cut down on >possibilities of infection, and is there a risk? > I wouldn't count on the lip to the fermenter being anything other than a bacteria culture (touched by sticky hands, drips of wort, etc). So if you're in glass and are going to pour (rather than siphon), then you should wipe with a vodka-soaked tissue and then flame. In my opinion (for what it's worth), if you're in plastic, then you should siphon. The way I get the yeast out is to have an empty sterilized champagne bottle on hand. As I rack the fermenter I stop siphoning by sticking my bottling wand on the end of the siphon tube (this is tricky, perhaps messy). Then I swirl the fermenter. Next, I tilt it and siphon as much of the slurry into the champagne bottle as I can siphon or fit in the bottle. Then I cap the bottle (I use champagne/sparkling cider bottles that take crown caps). If you want to do more work (washing the yeast), then that's up to you. I don't...but probably would if I was going to be holding the yeast for a long time. Heiner Lieth. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 23:50:48 -0800 (PST) From: Heiner Lieth <lieth at telis.org> Subject: RE: creating a better environment I have a suggestion which might solve the bit of non-hop-based bitterness that seems to occasionally creep into this forum. Whenever you finish a message that you are ready to post, let it sit for a few minutes. In that time ask yourself if the message you wrote would be suitable for your mother, father, daughter, son, grandparent, grandchild, friend, enemy,... to read (HBD subscribers are of all ages and in all walks of life). Also ask yourself whether the message would be appropriate for _you_ to read aloud in a room filled with over 1000 strangers (try not to get stage-fright). If the answer is no, then don't send it until you've fixed it so that you can say yes. While the HBD was at it's previous home I once asked the listserver to send me the list of subscribers. I seem to remember that the file was 50K in size; if the average e-mail address were 25 characters long, then that would translate to 2000 names. Most of these folks are sitting there silently watching you make a fool of yourself, if you choose to do so. Enough said. Pax. Heiner Lieth. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 00:37:44 -0800 From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu> Subject: Some yeast question and answer 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill) asks: > Does anyone know if a high temp starter ferment will cause any problems > later, in the actual ferment? I don't know, but I strongly suspect that it will. There are a few things that seem to have a multigenerational effect (but probably not a mutagenic one) on yeast: high temperatures, high gravities, and oxygen conditions. (The latter has been the subject of much recent discussion.) 100F is quite hot for yeast--I wouldn't use it myself. YMMV. > Also, I recently froze some wyeast 3068 Wheinstephen yeast from a starter > with about 50% glycerine/glycerol. [snip] The > freezer is at about 20F the last time I checked, and the yeast sample never > actually froze solid, which I suppose is the point of using the glycerine? There have been mixed reports, but I think most people find what I have found--a normal freezer (either the temperature or the cycling could be the problem) will not provide for long term yeast storage. The laboratory technique is freezing in 15% glycerol and storage at -80C. Check out the yeast FAQ and other stuff at The Brewery (http://alpha.rollanet.org/InfoBaseCont.html) for info on other methods. Slants will work for .5-1 year. If you use much it less often than this, maybe it is worth it just to buy it again? > Finally, is it OK to wash yeast with lactic acid? If so, what > concentration should I use? How much is that with 88% lactic acid in say a > quart of H2O? This should work as far as I can see. I believe the protocol is to lower the pH to 2.0-2.5 on ice, which should probably be done to the (sterile) water before adding the yeast. This is held for a couple of hours and then added to wort. Breweries will not use, or will blend, the first batch made this way as the yeast will not have the right fermentation characteristics (see my comment above about long term changes). For them it is worth it because in one batch they are back to pitching quantities of yeast, which would otherwise be a lot of work to get by stepping up, and they might not like the first batch of recultured yeast either. For home brewers this doesn't make sense, IMHO. I would suggest plating and picking a single colony, or repurchasing the yeast. By the way, I don't have the pKa of lactic acid handy, you should make sure it will drop the pH low enough. The standard protocol is to use phosphoric. It is impossible to say how much acid you will have to use since it depends on the buffering capacity of your water. You will have to titrate down to that level, measuring as you go. Tough to do in a sterile manner. - -- Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 09:16:56 -0500 (EST) From: RUSt1d? <rust1d at li.com> Subject: Wort Chilling and Recirc >Once the boil is over, the wort is pumped from the kettle, through a CF >chiller, passed a "T" fitting, into a magnetic impeller pump (March, Little >Giant, etc), and into waiting fermenting vessels. I run my wort into a cf chiller and use a pump to recirculate it thru the chiller and back to the kettle just at the surface. I run the water on very low flow and the wort on high flow. I get one 6.5 gallon carboy full of water at 140+F, one at 120+F and a third at 100+F (each carboy takes about 10 mins to fill at the water flow rate). This water with bleach sanitizes the carboys. By the time the second one is full, the first one is emptied and rinsed. By now the wort in the kettle is about 100F so I turn off the pump and put a small piece of ranking cane on the out hose. This piece of cane has 4 pin holes drilled in the side and is sealed at the bottom (by heating and squeezing). I stick the hose in a carboy and turn the pump on high. The wort is aerated as it sprays agianst the sides of the carboy chilled further to a cool 64F. This uses a total of 25 gallons of water to chill 12.5 gallons of wort in 30 mins. I use a piece of brass screen cut in a circle that fits the bottom of the kettle. This has a hole in the center and fits over a sloted copper pipe drain. This is a four inch square of pipe connected together and slotted on the bottom with the only exit in the middle of the square. With an 90 degree elbow and a length of pipe, this connects to the out valve of the kettle. With the drain in place and the screen placed over top the wort is sucked from the center of the bottom. I always use some whole hops in each batch. These cover the screen and make an even better filter then the screen itself. The recirculation of the wort back to the kettle has the some of the same benefits as mash recirc. The hops form a nice tight filter bed on top of the screen. The wort returning to the kettle causes a natural whirlpool effect without the need to stir. I get very clear, particulate free wort. I don't know if the cold break is formed in the kettle at 100F. John John Varady http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady/index.html Boneyard Brewing Co. "The HomeBrew Recipe Calculating Program" "Ale today, Gone tomorrow." Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 11:16:35 -0500 (EST) From: Dckdog at aol.com Subject: Re: unknown pleasures Oh man, I swear my recent brewing efforts are cursed. I brewed a light lager/steam beer using 3 lbs. of extra light DME and 13/4 lbs. of honey. The first yeast I pitched didn't work ( I probably killed it) so I repitched with two packets of Superior Aussie Lager yeast with good vigorous fermentation. I racked to a secondary after 6 days and left it in a 40 degree closet for the week. I took it out this morning into the house to bottle and now these weird particulate things are ascending to the top of the brew and then descending, perhaps brought on by the change in temperature. I will let it settle for a few hours and hopefully bottle this afternoon. What the heck is that stuff? Has my yeast reactivated? Should I call the exorcist? Thanks, Dean "......you betcha there, yah...." Margie Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 97 08:36:25 PST From: hollen at vigra.com Subject: NEED to judge Having just passed my BJCP exam with a score high enough for Certified, I need to get some points judging. Could anyone planning a competition in the next 6 months within four hours driving from San Diego, CA please contact me with info. I am already signed up for the Greater Arizona Beer Festival, but cannot find any others listed in Zymurgy before July. Come on Southern, California, put on some comps. thanks, dion QUAFF President Organizer America's Finest City Homebrew Competition Quality Ale and Fermentation Fraternity, Sponsor http://www.vigra.com/~hollen/AFCHBC.html - --- Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com http://www.vigra.com/~hollen Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:31:13 -0500 From: Tony Owens <ivy at fastlane.net> Subject: Lactating mothers and stout! Hello fellow brewers. I recently was discussing with another brewer the fact that doctors in the past would prescribe stout to lactating mothers. He also went on to say that in England during WWII (I believe is the war) all the stout in England was rationed for lactating mothers. Is there any of you out there that can confirm this for me? If it is true, what exactly assists in milk production of a lactating mother? Dextrins? Thanks Tony Owens Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 97 18:45:38 UT From: "Raymond Estrella" <ray-estrella at msn.com> Subject: Al K to the tune of "Dear God" Dear Al, sorry to disturb you but, you seem to have caused quite a ruckus down here. Some think that your dissing the newbies beer. And all the brewers that you made in your image, been flaming 'cross the web, 'cause they're not sure what was said, by Al.......don't believe in you...... Dear Al, sorry to be buggin' you, I will let you get your heavenly brews done. But where can I find the right map for my tongue? And since I slept through chemistry class, those posts just kick my ass, from Al.......don't believe in you...... Did you make the malt, and the yeasties too? Did you make beer geeks, or did we make you ? And the Jim Koch too.........? I don't believe in extract vs. grain, when they ferment, they're all the same. Open fermenters, better than closed, drink from either one and you'll still get hosed. Word comes down what we need to fear, is that we'll get diarrhea from our beer. All I know is when I need help, what to do, I go online line and search for a post...... from you........dear Al. Sorry, but this Al thing just lent itself so well. Honestly Al, I have been reading your posts (and everybody else's) for over a year, and they have helped considerably. Keep up the good work, and I'll try to keep up. Ray Estrella Cottage Grove MN ray-estrella at msn.com *******Never relax, constantly worry, have a better homebrew.******* Return to table of contents
Date: 02 Feb 97 15:01:13 EST From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202 at CompuServe.COM> Subject: Dyeing to know, Clinit*st Brewsters, Cuchulain asks a > Bonus Trivia Question: > How do they get dye to adhere to cloth? Or to ask it another way; How is > the color in ALL clothes applied? > OK one hint: It makes a hypocrite out of animal rights' freaks. There are lots of ways to get dye to adhere to cloth ( actually the fiber): 1) Direct or Substantive dyes - self induced adherance, divided into acid and basic dyes. These are used for dyeing animal fibers 2) Mordant or Adjective dyes need to have something like albumin ( an animal product) or aluminum salts applied first. Chrome dyes use chromium salts ( a potential environmental threat). 3) Azo dyes are chemically formed on the cloth by diazotization 4) Sulfur Dyes are applied in a chemically reduced state and oxidized to affix them. 5) Vat Dyes similar to sulfur dyes 6) Disperse Dyes applied as a colloidal suspension Do I get a good grade? What's the answer you wanted? I'm dyeing to know. - --------------------------------------------- That Malty Dog Bill Coleman asks for more information on Clinitest and AJ DeLange says: > Dave Burley suggested the use of diabetic products to determine residual > sugar content towards the end of the fermentation. This is workable but > also quite approximate. I obviously have done a lousy job of explaining what I mean. I definitely did not recommend "diabetic products" as a class, to be used indiscriminately. I only ever recommended the Clinitest kit, never anything else. Maybe I haven't explained it thorougly here, even though I have discussed this ad infinitum privately. Sorry for the long post, but I will be answering at least two questions at the same time. Hopefully, my recommendation will be thoroughly understood when I finish. Keep in mind throughout this discussion that the purpose of Clinitest here is to indicate the end of the fermentation - nothing more. No one would claim that a hydrometer reading near the end of the fementation directly gives an accurate reading of the sugar content or even the disssolved solids because of the alcohol content, just that a constant reading indicates the end of the end of the fermentation OR a stuck fermentation. This potential for a false end-point reading is what makes the hydrometer method so unreliable, in addition to the difficulty of getting any constant reading over any length of time in still fermenting beer. It just doesn't work, I don't care how many places you read it or how often it gets said to use hydrometers to indicate the end of the fermentation. Hydrometers are lousy, unreliable instruments for determining the end of a fermentation. And no, spinning the hydrometer to release any bubbles does not help get a better reading. In my experience by the time it stops spinning it has bubbles again. Clinitest will not give you a false reading in case of a stuck fermentation, hydrometers will. Clinitest doesn't care if you have a different alcohol content or different unfermentable carbohydrate profile than expected. If you are expecting a certain FG and don't get it what do you do? The hydrometer remains silent on the subject offering no potential solutions. Not so with Clinitest. If the reducible sugar is too high it needs to be fermented more or the priming sugar needs to be reduced, no if, ands or buts. a) I recommend using Clinitest solution test kits ( not strips of any kind) at the END of the fermentation. Clinitest is particularly useful when you don't know the expected FG. The kit consists of a plastic box which doubles as a testube holder during the test, a testube, an eyedropper , a bottle of reagent pills and a standard sheet for color comparison. They may need to be special ordered by your local pharmacist, as I had to do this recently. Don't let them sell you any kinds of test strips as they will not do the job, at least to my knowledge. b) I only recommend the Clinitest KITS which are Fehling's/ Benedict's based tests with a test tube and reagent pill. Ten drops of beer are added and ten drops of water are placed in the test tube. An alkaseltzer like pill is added. A fizzy reaction ensues and the color of the solution compared to a standard chart in the kit indicates the reducible sugar content of the beer. Concentration of reducible sugars are easily read, since the color ranges from orange through green to blue. The test takes about 1-2 minutes and no hydrometer and jar to clean and it uses a tiny amount of beer, unlike repeated hydrometer tests. My experience is that < 1/4% reducible sugar is the correct indicator for the end of the fermentation. At this <1/4 % reading I get FG's which, depending on the beer, typically range from 1.008 to 1.020, yet I know the fermentation is through and I can safely bottle. I don't usually do this, but under time pressure, I have bottled before the end of the secondary fermentation, correcting my priming sugar addition for the sugar content read by this test and it worked perfectly. I have absolutely no idea where Noonan gets such a ridiculous number as 2% to indicate the finish of the fermentation, unless he is going to keg straight away. People following this advice and then adding carbonation sugar will generate glass bombs when bottling. Probably another typo or insufficiently explained comment from Noonan. AJ, in my post I specifically said that the enzyme strips were not acceptable and they don't fall under the description of going after reducible sugars anyway. As far as which sugars are reducible and fermentable this includes all sugars of interest to us including maltose but excepting sucrose. This is, however, unimportant, since at the end of the fermentation there is no sucrose left anyway. By the end of the fermentation, sucrose has been converted by extracellular enzymes to fructose and glucose which the yeast can ferment directly. Your suggestion that some of the dextrins may have reducible ends and give a test when there is no fermentable sugars is correct theoretically, but is irrelevant practically as my experience over several decades shows. Any error generated by this type of problem must be less than 1/4%. If anything, it errs on the conservative side and will delay bottling. I have never had a broken bottle or variable carbonation caused by bottling too soon since using Clinitest, even when I made beers in which I had no prior knowledge of the FG. All-grain brewers benefit from this greatly, since a missed hold temperature or better or poorer extraction efficiency, can impact the FG substantially. Too low or changing fermentation temperature or overly flocculant yeast can result in stuck fermentations only to restart at some later time- hopefully not in the bottle. > The older guys will remember Fehling's solution and Benedict's reagent. I'm one of the older guys and not only do I remember these tests, but Clinitest Kits sold today are based on these reagents, so I still use them and suggest you try it. - ---------------------------------------------------------- Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Voice e-mail OK Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 15:10:00 -0300 From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com> Subject: Re: Allergies, beer > A co-worker of mine said that he cannot enjoy a beer because of a >allergic reaction (his lips swell then a tightness in the chest with >trouble breathing). He also has this same reaction when eating wheat >bread. However he can have bleached out white bread and the bleached out >malted beverage, Zima (Zomething awful). My first guess would be the >yeast but I'm not a doctor nor allergist, so does any one have any ideas >how I could help out this troubled soul to enjoy a real brew? Allergies apparantly aren't particularly well understood. An allergy is a hypersensitivity to an allergen, where the hypersensitivity may result in an immunological response. Allergens in food, pollen and insect bites are typically proteins, but some allergies, for examples allergies to many drugs, seem to be allergies to serum proteins modified by these secondary allergens. In the case above it seems probable that the person is allergic to some protein in the wheat germ, that is the embryo. From the comment above I'm assuming that the allergy is to 'whole wheat' bread, as opposed to white bread made primarily with flour from wheat endosperm. This is probably not a gluten allergy, since gluten is present in substantial quantities in wheat endosperm (white) flour. This person may also have an allergy to barley embryo protein, but this isn't clear - perhaps the beers that this person reacts to also have a portion of wheat. It also seems likely that some people react allergically to flavanoids and possible to other phenolic compounds whick may react with proteins, tho that doesn't appear to be the case here. Other than finding some means of separating the malted barley endosperm (which would probably remove a lot of alpha-amylase and FAN but might make an acceptable beer with the addition of fungal AA and yeast nutrients) or rectifying the beer to Zima-like insipidness, I can't suggest a definite solution. It might be useful to know if the person is really allergic to whole malted barley and if so then to all the various barley varieties. Beers made soley from alternate malted grains such as rye, corn, oats, quinoa or others might be a solution - tho' obtaining malted versions may be very difficult - and it's not clear that there would give the 'real beer' experience you seek. Steve Alexander Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 15:16:39 EST From: pgarofalo at juno.com (Peter M Garofalo) Subject: Clear Beer from Kegs, and Skunkiness I've noticed a couple of interesting threads lately, and thought I'd chime in with my (hopefully pertinent) personal experiences. First off, here's a suggestion that works well to improve the clarity of beer from Corny kegs: Allow the beer to settle, preferably cold, for as long as you can manage--a week, at least. Clean and sanitize a second keg along with a transfer hose (a short piece of beer hose with compression fittings on each end). Connect the hose to the LIQUID side of both kegs, and pressurize the beer-filled keg just enough to push the beer forward. Vent the receiver keg as nesessary. Be alert, and you can catch the end of the keg-to-keg transfer and avoid the transfer of sediment. I've used this method when I'm planning to transport beer, and in fact just did two kegs today. One hint: make sure both kegs are well chilled, and foaming will not be a problem. As for "skunkiness" in beer that has not been exposed to light: yes, it can happen. I've tasted skunked Pilsener Urquell on draft, and suspected something in the handling is to blame. I am not a chemist, but I have done more organic synthesis than most. My understanding of the formation of prenyl mercaptan is that it's a free radical reaction, with the absorption of the right amount of energy (from light or _heat_) required to form the free radical, which then initiates a chain reaction. Scott Bickham did some experiments along this line for a presentation he did at last year's AHA convention. I don't know the details, but he told me that he was able to "skunk" beer that had never been exposed to light. I believe that temperature cycling was the key, supporting the idea that poorly handled beer might become skunky, even in kegs. Any other ideas or experiences? Cheers, Peter Garofalo Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 15:52:25 -0800 From: "The Romano's" <PEDMJR at TTUHSC.EDU> Subject: Paulener Wheat I'm looking for a close approximation to Paulener weizen beer. Something light, crisp, well carbonated. I've advanced(?) to partial grain receipes. Thanks in advance. Great forum - -- Mike Romano PEDMJR at TTUHSC.EDU Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 22:30:51 -0900 From: Ron Karwoski <brewski at micronet.net> Subject: Re: Freshman Digest Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:25:33 -0800 >From: The Holders <<zymie at sprynet.com> >Subject: Freshman Digest > >In # 2325, Al K says: > >>I mean, as much as I like to help out and answer beginners' >questions, if not for the discussions of planispiral chillers, >beerstone removal,and anthocyanogens, I don't know if it could >keep my interest. > >I think the whole point, Al, is that some people want to talk on their >own level, and aren't concerned with your interest. > >Not everyone is a Ph.D., or Chemist, or Metallurgist. Some ordinary >people >want to have ordinary talk about ordinary things. > >I use the 'page down' extensively on many posts, and would probably >subscribe to both digests. I'm no expert, hell, I don't even play one >on TV, but I do like to brew, but not in the ethereal plane. > >Wayne Holder >Long Beach CA >"Home of the Toob(tm)" >- -- >"contrary to my own opinions, I'm NOT always correct.... >at least that's what I think..." When I was lurking on the Fidonet conference on Aquariums I witnessed the birth of a new conference dedicated to <italic>salt water </italic>aquariums. The idea was that the conference had grown too large to accommodate both fresh water and salt water enthusiasts. I think a similar metamorphosis is in order for HBD. Why not have an extract HBD and an all grain HBD. Currently I have trouble keeping up with all the HBD's I've collected in my mailbox. If I could pick one of those categories I believe my packets would be smaller. Nothing important, Just my $.02 worth Ron E-mail to: brewski at micronet.net Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 22:30:51 -0900 From: Ron Karwoski <brewski at micronet.net> Subject: Re: Freshman Digest Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:25:33 -0800 >From: The Holders <<zymie at sprynet.com> >Subject: Freshman Digest > >In # 2325, Al K says: > >>I mean, as much as I like to help out and answer beginners' >questions, if not for the discussions of planispiral chillers, >beerstone removal,and anthocyanogens, I don't know if it could >keep my interest. > >I think the whole point, Al, is that some people want to talk on their >own level, and aren't concerned with your interest. > >Not everyone is a Ph.D., or Chemist, or Metallurgist. Some ordinary >people >want to have ordinary talk about ordinary things. > >I use the 'page down' extensively on many posts, and would probably >subscribe to both digests. I'm no expert, hell, I don't even play one >on TV, but I do like to brew, but not in the ethereal plane. > >Wayne Holder >Long Beach CA >"Home of the Toob(tm)" >- -- >"contrary to my own opinions, I'm NOT always correct.... >at least that's what I think..." When I was lurking on the Fidonet conference on Aquariums I witnessed the birth of a new conference dedicated to <italic>salt water </italic>aquariums. The idea was that the conference had grown too large to accommodate both fresh water and salt water enthusiasts. I think a similar metamorphosis is in order for HBD. Why not have an extract HBD and an all grain HBD. Currently I have trouble keeping up with all the HBD's I've collected in my mailbox. If I could pick one of those categories I believe my packets would be smaller. Nothing important, Just my $.02 worth Ron E-mail to: brewski at micronet.net Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:44:59 +200 From: "Braam Greyling" <acg at knersus.nanoteq.co.za> Subject: Be careful Hi brewers, About a month ago I tried my hand at brewing an E.S.B. I knew this would be the last time I brew before my wedding(this coming Saturday) It seems like I did not aerate my wort enough because I had a very high F.G. Anyway, I bottled it not thinking that it may ferment in the bottle. Two weeks later I had three or four exploded bottles in the study. (Nobody was happy about this). I realised what I have done so I took all the bottles and relieved some pressure with a bottle opener and sealed it again. I did not had any problems after that. Saturday me and my wonderful wife-to-be, went to our house to fix the garden up a little(we are not living there yet). Since we would be working in the sun I packed a few beers as well. For one bottle I did not have enough room so I put it on the floor of my pick-up, just where my fiance`s feet are resting. We went to the house fixed everything up and a had a few beers. I forgot all about the one on the floor. We went back again as it was getting late. While we were driving back it happened. The bottle exploded. I never had such a big fright in my life. At first we thought everything was o.k. Then I looked at her leg just to see some blood streaming out. I stopped got out of the car and got her out of the car also. Luckily it was only a small cut,about 1cm. I gave her a paper towel to stop the blood and drove to the hospital. There they gave her one stitch and they cleaned all the scrapes on her leg. She doesnt feel good about this because it is a week before our wedding and now her leg will have a small mark. The doctor said the stitch will be out before the wedding. *relief* I feel very bad about this and I just want to warn my fellow-brewers to be careful. This could have been a terrible accident. I was sure the bottle was not over carbonated anymore. Maybe it was a bad bottle and the shaking of the driving caused it to explode. I dont know. What I do know is that it wont happen again. KEEP those bottles in a cooler or a box !!! Luckily she is not mad at me. Like I said, we are getting married Saturday. If you remember ,on Saturday, lift your full beer glass in South Africa`s direction and wish us luck. Cheers Braam Greyling I.C. Design Engineer Azona (Pty) Ltd tel. +27 (12) 665-1338 fax +27 (12) 665-1343 - ---- 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case ---- - ---- coincidence ????? ---- Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 10:41:00 -0800 (PST) From: Russ Kruska <R.KRUSKA at CGNET.COM> Subject: Nicely Hopped in Kenya Thanks to all who responded to my posting concerning the underhopped pale ale. There were two main concerns: that a simple hop tea steep would not give me the bitterness I needed and that boiling extra hops in water alone would lead to harsh flavors. I therefore figured out that I had to make up about 20 IBUs, which was 3/4 ounce of Northern Brewer pellets, which I boiled for 45 minutes in a gallon and a half of water that I adjusted to pH 5.7 with lactic acid. Racked off the sediment into my keg, added the fermented ale, and force carbonated it. I tried a pint the following day and it has a wonderful hop bitterness, so all is well. It is still very cloudy, but very tastey !!! Thanks again all !!! Russ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 08:18:08 -0500 (EST) From: Zurekbrau at aol.com Subject: Paddles I converted a Keg to a brew pot and found that it is very hard to stir the wort in this pot. I bought a paddle. It looks like it is sealed with urathane. My question is what should I do to this paddle to use it safely to stir wort? Rich Zurek Carpentersville IL Zurekbrau.aol.com Return to table of contents