HOMEBREW Digest #2426 Mon 26 May 1997
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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
Source for Silicone Tubing (Jeff Hewit)
Re: Ascorbic acid and HSA ("John Vaughn")
Bottle Headspace/Priming Rates ("Jeff Hailey")
I Guess it's Pffft! (David Johnson)
Help, ruined? ("John Penn")
Results of the SE NHC first round,Atlanta, GA (egross)
Inverted Carboy Fermenter: Progress Report ("Charles L. Ehlers")
Re: Carbonation in bottles (short!) (Greg.A.Kudlac)
Corny Keg Boots ("Kris Jacobs")
Active Transport Acrossed Membra (eric fouch)
Electric Stoves (Kent Tracy)
Bottle Headspace (Steve Waite)
Cooler as Mashtun Heating (Matt Harper)
Stuck Ferment (Brian S Kuhl)
Head Space/Carbonation. Ain't it the truth. ("Dr. Pivo")
summary post re: sanitizing a ball valve drain (Jeff)
mushroom question ("Raymond Estrella")
Kegging plus (PAUL W HAAF JR)
Yeast under pressure, carbonation ("Raymond Estrella")
SF Bay Area Questions (Jim Nasiatka)
Yeast Infection Thread Followup (Jim Liddil)
bla bla bla (AndrewsBru)
NHC Results for the Southeastern Area (CTERENZI)
Bodega Bay/Santa Rosa, California Brewpub Recommendations ("Mark Nelson")
use 1/4 NPT fittings (John_E_Schnupp)
Scaling down recipes (Keith Busby)
Pale Ale Decoction Success at Last (Charles Burns)
sedative effect of hops (Tom Lombardo)
re: soil preparation + carbonating and keg leaks ("C.D. Pritchard")
HBD policies (Bruce Baker)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 21:45:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Hewit <jhewit at erols.com>
Subject: Source for Silicone Tubing
For silicone tubing, call US Plastics, 1-800-537-9724 for a catalog. They
have a 10' minimum, but that's not to severe. The stuff's food grade, and
is rated to 500F. I've been using it for all my tubing needs, because I can
sanitize by boiling, and not worry about leaving behind traces of sanitizing
solution.
======================================
Jeff Hewit
Midlothian, Virginia
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Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 18:45:29 -0700
From: "John Vaughn" <j_vaughn at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Ascorbic acid and HSA
George De Piro mused about ascorbic acid's effect on aerated wort when
pitching. The question posed was, "Will the ascorbic acid use up all the
oxygen?"
Now I'm certainly no expert on ascorbic acid, but I believe that it
protects whatever it is on (or in) from the effects of oxidation rather
than using up the oxygen. My only point of reference would be that
1. A human being requires oxygen to live.
2. I take lots of ascorbic acid (Vitamin C).
3. I am still alive so I don't think the oxygen in my body has been taken
by it.
Just my thoughts. I could be totally wrong and I'm sure I will hear about
it if that is the case. (Flame Shield on Standby).
Hoppy trails!
John Vaughn
Castroville, California
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Date: Thu, 22 May 97 15:20:01 EDT
From: "Jeff Hailey" <jeff_hailey at ccmail.eo.ray.com>
Subject: Bottle Headspace/Priming Rates
I've been thinking about priming rates and bottle headspace and came
up with the following.
Let's look at the equations governing priming with dextrose. Dave
Draper tells us that we add 3.7g of Dex per liter of beer to increase
the number of volumes by CO2 by one. (See Dave's page
http://hbd.org/~ddraper/priming.html for his discussion on priming.)
As an example, lets use one liter of beer that we want to increase the
carbonation by one volume. We need to add 3.7 g of dex to prime.
3.7g (dex) / 180 (g/mole dex) = 20.56 milli-mole (mmole) of dex
For normal fermentation we have the reaction (from Dave Miller's
Homebrewing Guide)
Eq 1: c6h12o6 ==> 2 c2h5oh + 2 co2
Substituting molar values int Eq 1 gives:
(20.56 mmole) c6h12o6 ==> 41.11 mmole c2h5oh + 41.11 mmole co2
Therefore, 41.11 mmole of co2 equals one volume of co2 disolved in one
liter of beer.
Now, lets assume that we have some air in a headspace above the beer.
The molar volume of an ideal gas at Standard Temp and Pressure is
22.4141 liter/mole (From CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, 72nd
edition). If we have a 10% headspace this gives us (0.1 liter) /
(22.414 liter/mole) = 4.4615 mmole of air. Assuming that 20% of the
air molecules are o2 this gives us .8923 mmole of o2. Now, lets assume
that all of this oxygen is available to the yeast for respiration
(which will never be the case). The chemical reaction for yeast
respiration is (again, from Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide):
Eq 2: c6h12o6 + 6 o2 ==> 6 h2o + 6 co2
We can see that during respiration, the yeast will only use 1/6 the
ammount of dextrose as oxygen.
Substituting:
(.8923 mmole) o2 + (.1487 mmole) c6h12o6 ==> (.8923 mmole) co2 +
(.8923 mmole) h2o
This leaves us with 20.41 mmole Dextrose (20.56mmole - .1487mmole)for
normal fermentation. Substituting this value into Eq 1 gives us an
additional 40.82 mmole of co2 for a grand total of 41.715 mmole of
co2! This is only a 1.47% increase of co2 over strict fermentation!
Double the headspace, double the oxygen. Respiration gives 1.785
mmole co2. This leaves 20.26 mmole dex which fermentation will turn
into 40.52 mmole co2. Total is 41.31 mmole co2, an increase of 2.9%
over fermentation alone.
Give the beer a 50% headspace. 4.46 mmole oxygen + .743 mmole dex
gives 4.46 mmole co2. This leaves 19.81 mmole dex which will give
39.62 mmole co2. Total co2 is 44.08 mmole, an increase of 7.2%.
This discussion assumes that ALL of the oxygen in the headspace is
available to the yeast for fermentation. This is not true by any
stretch of the imagination, only a part of it will be there. There is
also an implied assumption that all of the co2 will be disolved in the
beer. In reality, however, you should loose some co2 to the
headspace. Given the ideal gas law: PV=nRT, if you double the volume,
you need double the number of molecules to achieve the same pressure.
It seems to me that having more headspace in a bottle of beer would
give a lower level of carbonation, even accounting for yeast
respiration. This goes against what some people report to happen in
practice. I think that there should be more discussion here.
Cheers!
Jeff Hailey
Brewing in Tulsa, OK
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 07:16:42 -0700
From: David Johnson <dmjalj at inwave.com>
Subject: I Guess it's Pffft!
Not having done any experiments or having any expertise in physics, I
would guess that the carbonation perception would probably due to the
pfft. Since, as we agree, water is incompressable and gas is not, when
there is more headspace there is more gas to be compressed there would be
more gas escaping (hence more pfft). If however there is more fizz, then
I would further want to know are we talking about CO2 in solution or
bubbling out of solution at opening (foaming). I think most of us have
observed that when opening an overcarbonated beverage you get less
foaming if you open it slowly. I seem to remember something in physics
about rapid depressurization causing more co2 to be released from
solution. Would some of our observations be due to more rapid pressure
change on opening a bottle with a greater headspace?
Dave
Return to table of contents
Date: 23 May 1997 09:36:24 -0400
From: "John Penn" <john_penn at spacemail.jhuapl.edu>
Subject: Help, ruined?
Subject: Time:9:16 AM
OFFICE MEMO Help, ruined? Date:5/23/97
I recently aerated my current stout after it was partially fermented because
it appeared to be stuck--FG 1.085, OG 1.040. For my stout I repitched some
more yeast after transferring it to the carboy, then I removed the water in
the airlock and shook it up some to aerate, but not as much as my first
pitching. It bubbled some, about 10-20 sec/bubble but that's pretty minimal.
Now I'm worried about what I've done to my stout with the extra air that I've
added.
I've brewed several strong beers--OG 1.080 to 1.090-- and I know that most
yeasts poop out at about 8% and that for strong beers you need to pitch a lot
of yeast. Previously, I used mostly M&F light extract in my strong beers and
got to 8-8.5% alcohol with the same yeasts as this batch. With my current
stout of 1.085 OG I kind of expected a similar OG, but it seems to be stuck at
1.040 which is only about 6% alc so the yeast shouldn't have pooped out.
Another difference with my other batches is that 65% of the malt extract was
Morgan's dark extract rather than M&F light. Dark should be a little less
fermentable than light but I wouldn't expect a 55% attenuation, I'd expect
65-70% instead of say 75%. I think I'll go ahead and bottle it whatever the
gravity and hope I didn't hurt it with my second aeration. Yeast are supposed
to be good anti-oxidants for the beer but I'm not sure what aerating a
partially fermented wort does to the beer. I've heard you can't overaerate an
unfermented wort. Can anyone explain what aerating a partially fermented wort
does to the beer, and how much is too much? TIA.
John Penn
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Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 10:27:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: egross at emory.edu
Subject: Results of the SE NHC first round,Atlanta, GA
To save bandwidth, the results of the southeastern portion of the national
homebrew competition can be viewed on the following web page:
www.coverthops.com/nhc97.htm
There were approximately 550 entries, 43 were stouts.On behalf of the
sponsoring homebrew club,the covert hops society, and the other
competition organizers, I would like to thank all the judges and stewards
from near and far that made our competition a success.Congratulations to
all the winners and thanx for entering. lee
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 09:45:20 -0500
From: "Charles L. Ehlers" <clehlers at flinthills.com>
Subject: Inverted Carboy Fermenter: Progress Report
<<<Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 08:06:06 -0700
From: "Kim Lux" <lux at cadvision.com>
Subject: Inverted Carboy Fermenter: Progress Report PT1
Part 1 of 2
With respect to my previous posts in HBD regarding an inverted carboy
fermentor; for those of you that were following my posts, I have the
following progress report:
1) I went shopping for a valve and fittings to attach to the neck of my
carboy. I spent some time in a warehouse style home supply store searching
for fittings, etc to attach to the neck of my carboy........>>>
As a new subscriber to HBD, I either missed or overlooked the previous
posts on this subject. However, Kim Lux needn't have gone through so much
trouble to do this when the same could have been accomplished using the
"FERMENTAP" (PO Box 30175, Stockton, CA 95213-0175, (209) 942-2750). It
accomplishes inverted carboy fermentation, and you don't have to drill a
hole in your carboy.
Having said that, I wouldn't recommend the FERMENTAP or inverting your
carboy to brew. I use the FERMENTAP and, while the principle sounds good
in theory, it doesn't work quite so cleanly in practice. The problem is
the neck of the carboy isn't conical, so removing trub and harvesting
yeast, although doable, is not efficient and you wind up wasting more beer
than you'd like.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 10:11:00 -0500
From: Greg.A.Kudlac at mcdermott.com
Subject: Re: Carbonation in bottles (short!)
Just a short statement on this topic...
Aaron Kelley states:
>First, let me try and dispel a myth. For all practical purposes,
>water is an incompressible fluid. This makes it impossible to kill
>yeast by overpressurizing a bottle. The yeast will only "feel"
>atmospheric pressure no matter what the pressure is in the headspace
>of the bottle.
Yes, water is essentially an incompressible fluid. This does NOT
mean, however, that the liquid will be at a different pressure than
the headspace above it, as you allude to above. The entire contents
are under the same pressure. In your syringe metaphor, if you put a T
at the end of the syringe and add a pressure gauge to one leg and
close the other, when you push on the plunger the water will not
compress but the pressure will increase.
Greg
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Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 11:17:12 +0000
From: "Kris Jacobs" <jtsnake at serv01.net-link.net>
Subject: Corny Keg Boots
I have just started kegging about two weeks ago, and was given 8
pin-lock kegs. In the process of cleaning one the other nite, the
rubber boot glued to the bottom came off.
Has anyone had this happen, and if so, how did you re-attach that
sucker?
Thanks,
Kris Jacobs
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Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 10:29:10 -0500 (EST)
From: eric fouch <S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021.efouch%Steelcase-Inc at mcimail.com>
Subject: Active Transport Acrossed Membra
- --Boundary (ID i.g+01I-J7PLYC.FBO9:5MMK=JDGI2IG)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
- -----------------------------
Application message id: STC010 970523112247033701
Posted date: FRI MAY 23, 1997 7:22 am GMT
Importance: Normal
Grade of Delivery: Normal
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Description: 7 BIT ASCII
Date: Friday, 23 May 1997 11:19am ET
To: STC012.HOMEBRE3 at STC010.SNADS
From: Eric.Fouch at STC001
Subject: Active Transport Acrossed Membranes
In-Reply-To: The letter of Friday, 23 May 1997 1:08am ET
HBD-
Arron Kelly says:
> Cells are able to control their osmotic pressure
differential.
Yes- it's called Active Transport. Yeast cells can use energy (ATP-Adenosine
Tri Phosphate) to counter the effects of osmosis.
At exactly what point (pressure) in a bottle of beer it can no longer keep up
I don't know.
Maybe Jim Layton should calculate the additional pressure created at the
bottom of a bottle of beer due to the G forces incurred by raising the bottle
through the air. Perhaps unnecessary lifting, lowering and rearranging of
full, capped beer bottles is unduly pressure stressing the yeast in the beer,
causing inconsistent carbonation. Perhaps if we flame them (the yeast) we can
alleviate their pressure stresses?
Eric Fouch
efouch at steelcase.com
Bent Dick YactoBrewery
"There are no answers- only cross references" Weiners Law of Libraries
"Cross references will inevitably lead you back to the question" My Corollary
- --Boundary (ID i.g+01I-J7PLYC.FBO9:5MMK=JDGI2IG)--
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Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 10:31:17 -0500
From: Kent Tracy <ktracy at sky.net>
Subject: Electric Stoves
There seems to be some diversity in the amount of heat electric
stoves will deliver. I have brewed for 4 years with a 33 qt
ceramic canner on my electric stove which can reliably boil 7
gallons in 20 minutes or so, and maintain the boil with one
burner on medium high. However, a friend has an identical
kettle and is unable to reach a rolling boil on his electric
stove. Ever.
My 33 qt canner mostly covers 2 burners, which helps. But what
I feel makes a significant difference, as was suggested before,
is to line the drip pans and cover the stove top with foil before
brewing. It has saved my enamel stovetop from permanent scars,
has stopped nearby formica from browning, speeds cleanup, and has
thereby spared me significant marital strife. I believe it also
aids heat transmission to the kettle. I have not heard of
dangers doing this; I assume if you ensure that your foil is
not going to short out the heating element you are OK...
Kent Tracy
ktracy at sky.net
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 09:58:33 -0800 (PDT)
From: Steve Waite <swaite at tiger.sr.hp.com>
Subject: Bottle Headspace
In HBD 2425 Aaron Kelley writes:
- -------------------------
I don't believe this theory. With all of the protein and other
components dissolved in the cytoplasm of the yeast ( the liquid inside
the yeast cell) the osmotic pressure is always going to be higher inside
the yeast. The other problem with this hypothesis is that osmotic
pressure favors the exact opposite reaction. Osmotic pressure forces
water toward an area of higher salt concentration. If anything,
disolving HCO3 in the beer would cause water to flow toward it, not
prevent it from flowing.
However, all of this is nil if you believe my first arguement that the
higher concentration of dissolved chemicals will always be within the
yeast cell. Cells are able to control their osmotic pressure
differential.
- -------------------------
First I will admit we are way out of my league in discussing cell biology
but, if osmotic pressure is not a factor why does yeast exhibit an
intolerance to increased alcohol levels. At some point the concentration
of "waste" products in the surrounding medium begins to play a role.
Does this happen for CO2 in the concentrations found in normally carbonated
bottles? If it does, evidence of exploding bottles would indicate it's not
lethal to the yeast.
My main objections to what Aaron originally posted was his statement that
yeast don't feel any pressure other than atmospheric. Greg nicely argued
that one earlier in HBD 2425. As for pressure effects not having any
physiological affects, I don't buy that based on my own experience as a
scuba diver. I don't have the background to say Aaron is incorrect in
what he states, just that it is rather simplistic and without supporting
data. Aaron, have you read Al Korzonas' experiment and data on carbonation
versus bottle fill level? Does it support your theories?
Regards,
Steve Waite
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 13:46:41 -0400
From: Matt Harper <matth at bedford.progress.com>
Subject: Cooler as Mashtun Heating
Hi all.
First, many thanks to all the replies I got regarding finings
to clarify my latest batch a few weeks back. Never meant to kick
off a thread over it! :-)
I've kept the articles, but haven't summarized because I haven't done
anything yet. I checked the gravity the night I sent the message
only to find it was nowhere near where I though it was, so I racked it
and I wait. It has cleared up some on it's own... not sure if I
want more. :-)
Anyway, back to the point...
I've got a Gott (get it) cooler set up with a nice false bottom to
mash in. It holds the heat real well and the sparge process goes
very nicely. I don't really want to stop using it.
However, the last 5 batches I've done have convinced me there must be a
better way to raise the temperatue of the mash than either a) adding
more hot water or b) doing a decoction. I know, I know, there are
most certainly other very good benefits to doing the Decot 'Thang, but
it's not always desired or right for the style. It can also be a royal
pain in the backside! lotsowork. Sometimes it's nice to have an easy
brew day.
So I'm looking for a way to be able to control the temperature in the
mash 'better', 'easier' and more efficiently. I', a tinkere (aren't we
all) so pretty much anything is up for grabs. I've considered wrapping
it all up in a RIMS system, which I think I may move to sometime down
the road. Right now I'm looking for something in between...
I've searched and searched old HBD's and other sources of info and
came across one article where someone (sorry to the originator, I saved
the info but it got erased and I cannot find it again. :-( ) of a system
where a pressure cooker was used to generate steam which was piped into
a slotted/drilled manifold at the bottom of the Tun.
This just sounds too cool to me!
Has anyone else tried this (and lived to tell about it)?
What about other sources, like pumping hot water through coils
laced through the grain bed? (An immersion heater I guess...)
I'm open to all sorts of ideas (and info on what you tried but bagged
'cause it didn't work out too well).
Thanks much in advance!
-Matth
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Date: Fri, 23 May 97 10:59:00 PDT
From: Brian S Kuhl <Brian_S_Kuhl at ccm.fm.intel.com>
Subject: Stuck Ferment
I just finished a batch of Porter using the same Swedish Porter ale
yeast as Arron. How strange. I even had his final gravity reading
(1.030). I started with an OG of 1.060. I have never had a high finished
gravity. Usually, I think they
are too low (1.007).
I took a chance and bottled this brew hoping that perhaps it was all
those (melinoidins??) from the 2 hour boil causing this high FG. Or
maybe it could be that the mash conversion was too short. My grain has a
lot of dark malt in relation to the pale malt resulting in little
diastic power. These are all guesses but I am beginning to think that
the yeast is at fault. The profile said it finished malty but this is
ridiculous! ;) My attenuation was 50% the profile said 69% - 73% is
normal. ????? and no solid answers.
Here is some info on my porter...
"Rogain Porter"
5 lb. Gambrinus 2-row pale malt
1/4 lb. Great Western wheat malt
3 lb. Gambrinus Honey malt
3 lb. Hugh Baird brown malt
1 lb. Hugh Baird 135deg. crystal
1 lb. Hugh Baird chocolate
2 oz. English Fuggle at 120 min.
0.5 oz. English Fuggle at 15 min.
1 oz. EK Golding at 2 min.
Mash at 154 degrees for 70 minutes.
Boil for 2 hours.
Pitch a twice stepped up starter of 1 liter.
Note: this yeast was three months past expiration. Took 3 days to get
any activity.
1.5 weeks in the primary and 2 weeks in the secondary. All initial
appearances were that this brew was bottle worthy.
CU
Brian
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Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 22:07:41 +0100
From: "Dr. Pivo" <irv at wireworks.se>
Subject: Head Space/Carbonation. Ain't it the truth.
I normally remain in the background, and just peek in here occasionally
without replying, as I am quite frankly shy of the argumentative tone
that often developes.
I was prompted to reply, however, when I poked my head in and
read David J. Burley's quite long and very nice use of deductive logic
in order to prove the unprovable.
It rather reminded me of the famous story of the aeronautical
engineer who calculated the wing span, weight, and speed of movement of
wings, and determined that a bumble bee couldn't fly.
I thought the relationship of head space to carbonation such an
established "-ism", that the main problem for me was understanding why
it took place.
As I recall, the first time I heard of it being referred to in
print, was in the 1970*s in a book by Dave Lines (The Big Book of
Brewing?) where he was suggesting filling volumes for kegs. I believe
his suggestion was something like "not too much or you'll get too little
carbonation, not too little because you want beer in your keg, not
gas!"...or some such. He attributed the phenomenon to "convection".
While that single word hardly made a crystal clear explanation for me,
I interpreted it as- the rapidly rising pressure inhibition of yeast in
a small head space, caused a slower carbonation, instead of the great
booming movements of yeast floating up and diving down, distributing a
fine convective movement of pearling bubbles.
While that explanation contains far from air-tight logic (at
least for me), I seem to recall even fiddling with full kegs, and
releasing the safety valve at regular intervals, in order to increase
carbonation. I certainly haven't done that in any controlled manner,
but I seem to recall that it had the effect desired. Someone might want
to explore that (perhaps a nearly full keg and an adjustable pressure
safety valve, with gradually increasing pressure over several days,
compared to a similarly filled keg that just sits there).
Whatever the explanation, I think the fact of the existance of
that phenomenon is pretty well established and apparent. I might add
that I've done a fair ammount of krauzening in my day and the same
effect exists, likewise have I racked "anaerobically" and observed the
same thing.
I really don't mean to be offensive with this missive to Dave or
anyone else who hasn't observed this effect yet, and doubts it, but I
think your obvious reasoning talents would be better spent analysing an
existing emperical truth, than denying its existance.
If you've not noticed the phenomenon yourself, you must know
somebody who doesn't have a volume of beer EXACTLY equal to an integral
number of bottles, who can open a "short fill" and serve you a gusher.
As for me, I see an imaginary bumble bee buzzing outside my window,
reminding me that it is indeed Spring, and my time is better spent
outdoors than in front of this glowing box.
Dr. Pivo
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Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 16:18:30 -0400
From: mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil (Jeff)
Subject: summary post re: sanitizing a ball valve drain
Hi All,
A couple of weeks ago I posted a question about how other people
sanitize the outlet side of a ball valve drain mounted to a converted
keg kettle.
I got back a total of 8 responses (6 via private email and 2 here
in the digest). In summary:
5 people said that they pass boiling liquid (water or wort) thru the
valve sometime before beginning to chill the wort.
2 people said that they swipe or soak the inside of the valve outlet
with either grain alcohol or vodka.
1 person flames the outlet with a grill lighter.
Almost everyone mentioned that they cover the outlet somehow after
sanitizing in order to keep it sanitary.
Thanks to all that responded.
Hoppy brewing,
Jeff
==============================================================================
Geoffrey A. McNally Phone: (401) 841-7210 x152
Mechanical Engineer Fax: (401) 841-7250
Launcher Technology & Analysis Branch email: mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
Naval Undersea Warfare Center
Code 8322; Bldg. 1246/2
Newport, RI 02841-1708
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Date: Fri, 23 May 97 03:02:11 UT
From: "Raymond Estrella" <ray-estrella at msn.com>
Subject: mushroom question
Hello to all,
I know that mushrooms like to live in the dark, but if I forget to turn
off the fluorescent lights after visiting the grow room, will my mushrooms
get skunked?.........What, this is not the Home 'Shroom Digest?....
Thanks to Tom Moench for the interesting mushroom/beer post. But
what I would like to know is, if someone takes best of show at a mushroom
contest with a kit grown specimen, do the all-manure growers get pissed?
Ray Estrella Cottage Grove MN
ray-estrella at msn.com
*******Never relax, constantly worry, have a better homebrew.*******
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Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 23:12:39 EDT
From: haafbrau1 at juno.com (PAUL W HAAF JR)
Subject: Kegging plus
Thanks to all who e-mailed me on my dilema. Most helpful and speedy were
the responses. Cheers to HBD and all it's contributors.
Sipping a homebrew now,
Paul Haaf
haafbrau1 at juno.com
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Date: Sat, 24 May 97 04:55:11 UT
From: "Raymond Estrella" <ray-estrella at msn.com>
Subject: Yeast under pressure, carbonation
Hello to all, Jeff Hailey responds to Aaron,
>>Aaron Kelley states:
>>First, let me try and dispel a myth. For all practical purposes,<snip>
>This is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE! Yes, water is basically incompressible.
> However, compressibility only deals with the change in volume versus
> the change in pressure. By pressing on the syringe's plunger, you
> are changeing the pressure of the water in the syringe, but not the
> volume -- hence the incompressablity of water.
> Ask anyone who has ever been diving about water pressure. Your ears
> start to feel the pressure in as little as a couple of feet. Divers
> get the bends from the solubility of nitrogen at increased pressures.
> Yeast under pressure will surely feel something -- and I guarantee
> that it won't be atmospheric pressure.
The case with diving is gravity at work. It is not incompressible water,
it is very compressible you, with a lot of weight being added for every foot
deeper you go. (And that is atmospheric pressure.) But I guess that if your
yeast is sitting on the bottom of a 200 foot tall carboy it will be affected
adversely.
Randy helps Eric with room temperature carbonation,
>for a typical carbonation level of 2.5 Volumes of CO2, you would
>apply 10 psi at 36 degrees F, but you would need 30 psi at 72 degrees
>for the same degree of carbonation.
>You don't _lose_ carbonation at any temperature, unless you have a leak
>in your system. Much more CO2 will dissolve in your beer at a lower
>temperature so I guess there is some economy (of gas) involved in
>carbonating at lower temperatures.
It is not that more dissolves into the beer, it does it at a lower pressure.
It is
still 2.5 volumes no matter the temp. The same amount of gas is flowing
through
the regulator.
Ray Estrella Cottage Grove MN
ray-estrella at msn.com
*******Never relax, constantly worry, have a better homebrew.*******
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Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 10:25:53 -0500
From: Jim Nasiatka <Jwylde at sirius.com>
Subject: SF Bay Area Questions
Greetings Collective!!
I know it's been quite a while since I popped my electronic head out
of the Ether, but I've been quite busy re-organizing my entire life,
leaving the Public Sector for a better paying gig in Private-Life, and
of course packing myself and my brewery up and hightailing outta Chicago,
and heading out to San Francisco.
Which, brings me to my little quandry....
I'm looking for ANY & ALL SF Bay area brewers who would like to
collaborate and share brewing space, since I currently just plain
ol' don't have the room for my system in my place right now.
I'm also looking for any decent HBrew supply stores in the bay area,
preferably in SF, but the north bay and Silicon valley work too.
Anyho, Thanx in Advance!!
Jamie
All the money in the world is no match for hard work and ingenuity...
____
\ / Nothing is so strong as Gentleness; JWylde at sirius.com
\/ nothing so gentle as real strength
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Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 15:47:06 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Yeast Infection Thread Followup
I saw this online. A little more complete explaination.
Jim
*********************
Post-baking hand-washing
recommended
copyright 1997 New Scientist
People who bake bread and fail to wash their hands afterward are
at risk of picking up a nasty yeast infection.
Thrush, an infection of the mouths of infants or of the vagina,
is usually caused by the fungus Candida albicans. But microbiologists in
Italy and the United States have now shown that commercial strains of
baker's yeast, Saccharomyces cerevisiae, can also cause the disease.
``Most people don't realize baker's yeast is a live organism
because it comes in a powder or a cake mix,'' says Karl Clemons of the
Santa Clara Valley Medical Center in San Jose, Calif.
Clemons and his team decided to investigate baker's yeast after seeing
isolated reports of it causing thrush. Claudio Farina of the United
Hospital in Bergamo, Italy, sent the Santa Clara team samples
from 16 women with thrush whose symptoms were not caused by Candida albicans.
All 16 samples contained Saccharomyces cerevisiae, and three
contained a strain that is sold in Italy for cooking.
The risk of infection could be eliminated by stricter hygiene,
Clemons says. ``If you've handled bread or dough, wash your hands
thoroughly afterward,'' is his advice.
The researchers will publish their results in the July issue of
the Journal of Clinical Microbiology.
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Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 04:47:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: AndrewsBru at aol.com
Subject: bla bla bla
I have always considered making beer with marijuana in it but never knew any
recipes or how I should go about it. If anyone knows any extract recipes or
how you would go about adding it to an already existing recipe. I would
appreciate any help you could give.
andrewsbru at aol.com
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Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 19:56:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: CTERENZI at aol.com
Subject: NHC Results for the Southeastern Area
The results of the Southeastern leg of the National Homebrew Competition can
be found at the Covert Hops Society Web page at :
www.coverthops.com
Has anyone posted the results from the other regions?
Results and scoresheets have been sent to the AHA for distribution so please
do
not e-mail requesting your personal score. Thanks
Chris Terenzi
NHC Co-Organizer
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Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:22:33 -0400
From: "Mark Nelson" <menelson at mindspring.com>
Subject: Bodega Bay/Santa Rosa, California Brewpub Recommendations
Here's another of those brewpub recommendation requests. Private e-mai is
preferred and thanks in advance:
I'm going to the Bodega Bay, Sebastapol, Santa Rosa area in June and would
like to visit local brewpubs. Pubcrawler had several listings to choose
from. Any personalized recommendation would be appreciated.
Mark in Atlanta
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Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 18:15:23 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: use 1/4 NPT fittings
Malta is a non alcoholic drink, it is basically a wort with sugar added and
I have followed the inverted carboy idea originally presented by
Kim Lux with much interest (being a somewhat self professed gadget
guy). This is an idea which I may try in the future. I would like
to post some other construction tips/techniques that I have stumbled
upon. Someone out there in the collective my find this useful.
IMHO, I use aluminum as my boiling vessel. I'm aware of the findings
concerning the use of this metal. I feel the concerns are limited.
I typically brew 10-12, 5 gal batches a year. I think I'm at
much more risk from the health effects of consuming alcohol, smoking
cigarettes and lack of exercise than the minor amount of aluminum
I am ingesting.
I use this metal because it is much easier to work with than SS.
Also, aluminum pots tend to be thicker than SS pots and converted
kegs. As a result, it is possible to drill a hole and tap it and
have an acceptable number of threads. Here are some tips:
1. Use 1/4 NPT fittings. A 7/16" hole is required for this tap;
this size bit is commonly available in a 3/8" cut-down shank. I have
found the best type bit is a pilot bit.
2. A short nipple threaded into a 1/4 NPT hole at the bottom
of the pot will make a water tight seal (especially if you do not run
the tap all the way thru). Enough of the treads will protrude thru
the inside of the vessel wall to all a 1/4 NPT fitting to be attached.
3. A 3/8" to 1/2" sweat bushing is of sufficient size to allow 1/4 NPT
thread to be tapped. It will not be liquid tight, however. I use
silver solder to secure the joint and make a liquid tight seal. The
bushing will need to be drilled to 1/2" as the end of the bushing is
typically flared. The flair could also be cut off.
There are many 1/4 NPT adapters in the plumbing section of local and
chain hardware stores. I use 3/8" compression fittings. The unfortunate
thing is that most of these fittings and adapters are brass. There is
also concern about brass. I try and limit my use of brass wherever
possible, but for the reasons mentioned earlier, I'm not overly worried
about the lead potential. I have constructed 2 brew pots using 1/4 NPT
fittings and have never had a leak (at least from the NPT fitting, poor
soldering, I could tell you how I flooded my basement, is another story).
I each of the two pots I use 3 brass fittings: 1/4 NPT close nipple,
1/2" shutoff valve and 1/4 NPT to 3/8 compression fitting. A final note,
it has been sugested that brass fittings could be tinned with silver
solder.
John Schnupp, N3CNL
Colchester, VT
john_e_schnupp at amat.com
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Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:55:41 -0500
From: Keith Busby <kbusby at ou.edu>
Subject: Scaling down recipes
I am passionately fond of beer, but find that even a 5-gallon batch is
large insofar as I have space limitations in the house. In essence, I would
rather brew more and smaller batches; this would also have the advantage of
greater variety and room for experiment. So: how easy is it to scale down a
recipe? It can't be as simple as just reducing all ingredients
proportionately, can it? Reply privately if you think this is not of
general interest.
Keith Busby
Keith Busby
George Lynn Cross Research Professor
University of Oklahoma
Center for Medieval and Rennaissance Studies
780 Van Vleet Oval, Room 202
Norman, OK 73019
Tel.: (405) 325-5088
Fax: (405) 325-0103
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Date: Sun, 25 May 97 09:39 PDT
From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: Pale Ale Decoction Success at Last
Decocted a Porter on 4/26. Grain bill:
2 lbs DWC Munich
.25 lb Black
1.25 lb Crystal 80
8 lbs Hugh Baird Pale Ale
.75 lb Wheat malt
.75 lb Belgian Special B
The Mash:
2.5 Gallons strike at 160F (ph 8.0) brought grain to 145F, added 1 tsp gypsum
for a mash ph of 5.3
Immediately pulled 1/3 of entire mash (liquid and grain), added 2 quarts of
water and another 1/2 tsp of gypsum. Decoction ph was then 5.0
Brought to 158F and held for 12 minutes, brought to boil and boiled 15 minutes
Returned to main mash which came up only to 150F (here it goes again...).
Immediately boiled another gallon of water, still not warm enough so took
about a gallon of mash back to the kettle, brought to boil and immediately
dumped back into main mash. Brought mash finally up to 160F. It took 45
minutes to get this far. Let it sit for 45 minutes.
Sparged with 6 gal at 180F, acidified with Lactic acid to ph 6.3
Boiled 65 minutes, OG 1.067 (SG at end of sparge still 1.017, too much grain)
Wyeast 1728 (scottish ale) for 1 week primary, 2 week secondary at 70F
FG 1.011
Yummy, you can munch on this porter, goes great with a snickers bar. FYI -
7gm Cluster 6.8AA 60 min, 28 gm Perles 8.2AA 60 min, 14gm Fuggles 4.5AA 10
min, 21gm Kent Goldings 4.9AA 3 min.
Now for a Vienna Lager attempt.
Charley
Charley
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Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 12:15:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tom Lombardo <favt3tl at rvcux1.RVC.CC.IL.US>
Subject: sedative effect of hops
I have a "365 Beers" calendar which mentioned that "hops slow the pulse
rate and promote a sense of euphoria."
That made me curious about whether an IPA would be better than a sweet
stout as an after-work relaxant.
Does anyone know if the sedative effect is related to the bittering or
aromatic components of the hops? Or is it something completely different?
Tom
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Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 15:05:18 +0700
From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at mail.chattanooga.net>
Subject: re: soil preparation + carbonating and keg leaks
DAVE_SAPSIS at fire.ca.gov (DAVE SAPSIS) provided some good advice:
>Your best bet at lightening up heavy clay soils is liberal use of organic
>matter and working the soil (i.e., digging and turning in).
Adding gypsum with the organic material really aids the organic stuff in
improving the tilth of the soil.
- ----------------
"Moyer, Douglas E" <moyer-de at salem.ge.com> posted:
>I kegged the beer on Sunday, and put 28 psi on the keg, and left the gas
>connected. After work on Monday, I hooked up the liquid disconnect and
tried >a sample. Unfortunately, I forgot to take off the liquid disconnect
or to >turn off the gas. When I went into the back room to draw a pint, I
got half >an inch of spitting foam. I opened the chest cooler, and saw the
entire five
>gallons on the outside of the keg.... the leak was between the quick
>disconnect and the shaft... I guess I should not have left the liquid
>disconnect connected during the high pressure of force carbonating.
I always leave the liquid disconnect in place but, I usually check for leaks
before I intially rack the brew into the keg. Here's the gory details:
Assemble the complete keg/disconnects and hoses (nothing on end of CO2 hose
and a cobra tap on the liquid hose) and sanitize the whole system. Drain
the sanitizer then hang the keg upside down (via a couple of holes in the
rubber keg base) with the hoses dangling below and the lid in place but not
latched (so the sanitizer drip out). Seal the lid, upright and pressurize
the keg via the CO2 line with CO2 and check for leaks with a dish soap/water
solution brushed on all joints. Bleed the CO2 via the relief valve and
repressurize- do this 2-3 times to dilute the O2 in the keg. Rack in the
brew by marrying the end of the a racking hose (with siphon started) to the
business end of the cobra tap (it'll latch fully open by tilting the
operating lever opposite the normal direction) and bleeding the keg gas via
the relief valve.
It's better if you use the liquid tube as the gas-in during purging as well
as during force carbonating *BUT* it's a bit of a hassle swapping
disconnects and remembering to cover the unconnected ones so they don't get
contaminated. Also, like me, you'll may eventually do something stupid like
the *last* time I used the liquid disconnect as a gas-in: while the keg
being force carbonated was at ~20-30 psig and it's CO2 manifold valve was
open, I opened the manifold valve to a conditioned keg at ~10 psig. Seeing
a lower pressure region, the brew from the high pressure keg rushed into the
gas hoses and manifold. DUH!
>1) How often should I change o-rings on the disconnect shafts?
I've never had to replace them but, I use silicone keg lube on the
disconnect o-rings. A very thin coating on the exposed outer surface of the
o-ring does the trick and doesn't seem to affect the heading properties of
the brew.
>2) Is it unreasonable to expect the o-ring to hold pressure at 28 psi?
I've had them up to ~30 psig w/o leakage, but I've noticed that the stiffer
lid o-rings will sometimes leak a bit when the pressure is reduced from
force carbonating to dispensing pressure. I like the softer (and more
expensive...) lid o-rings some of the brewing vendors sell for this reason.
>I'm beginning to like the idea of giving the keg a shot of CO2 only when
>needed...
That's what I do. If a leak develops, I don't wanta loose all the keg's or
the CO2 cylinder's contents. I valve in the CO2 while dispensing. When the
keg is pretty full, you'll need to do this each time a glass is drawn. As
the brew gets consummed and the vapor space increases, you won't have to
top-off with CO2 with each glass dispensed.
- ------------
AlK (the brewer, not the caustic compound <g>) added to the force
carbonation thread:
>Yes, but the fifth or sixth step implies that a keg of 33F beer gets
>sloshed around for 5 minutes with 25-30 psi *connected*, until you
>don't hear gas going in. This implies that you have dissolved more
>than 4 volumes of CO2 in the beer!
I've not found this to be the case. The violence of keg shaking, the vapor
space in the keg, whether you use the liquid line for carbonating and your
ability to hear when the gas stops flowing into the keg probably figures in
the picture also. Until I broke my gas rotameter, it greatly helped me
acutally see how much gas was going into the keg. (BTW, I broke while
cleaning brew from it's internals- see post above!)
c.d. pritchard cdp at mail.chattanooga.net
http://caladan.chattanooga.net/~cdp/index.html
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Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 14:52:21 +1200
From: Bruce Baker <Bruce.E.Baker at tsy.treasury.govt.nz>
Subject: HBD policies
G'day y'all,
In HBD 2425, the following policy was set forth:
1. Our guiding principle is that the HBD should not censor or
delete *any* message that deals with beer or brewing. The
only exception is where the message *itself* is *clearly*
against the law; for example, a post containing an illegal
solicitation of investors for a microbrewery would be
deleted, but posts discussing marijuana beer or home
distilling -- while not encouraged -- would not
Why is a message soliciting investors for a microbrewery illegal? It sounds
like
free speech to me. It might contravene some other HBD rule against commercial
solicitation, but it seems far less odious than a lot of stuff on the net.
Wondering in New Zealand,
Bruce Baker
"So many beers, so little time".
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