HOMEBREW Digest #2429 Thu 29 May 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  valve stems/diacetyl rest/banana & bubble gum/Phalse/carbonation & fill/invert candi sugar (korz)
  RE: Dry yeast / Weizen & starch haze (George De Piro)
  Various (John W. Braue, III)
  Cranberry Lambic (William H Plotner)
  NHC Results, Californi & Nevada (HARRY HOUCK)
  Way to regulate air temperature?? ("Robert Marshall")
  marijuana in beer ("Grant W. Knechtel")
  Using Gelatine Finings (John Sullivan)
  Hops Medicine (Aesoph, Michael)
  Ruined? continued. ("John Penn")
  Chi Pwi Gees (David Johnson)
  calculating strike water temp (Wes Clement)
  CO2 cylinders\; Safety (dcstanza)
  IBU estimates in high-grav worts ("Dave Draper")
  burners and BTU (Eric Palmer)
  Cherry Stout ("David W. Schoemaker")
  Summer Brewing (DGofus)
  tart berries in beer (Eugene Sonn)
  Must I prime again ? ("Braam Greyling")
  Corny/ss question ("Braam Greyling")
  Clear Weizen??? ("Paul A. Hausman")
  Fermentation temps (John Wilkinson)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 17:27:04 -0500 (CDT) From: korz at xnet.com Subject: valve stems/diacetyl rest/banana & bubble gum/Phalse/carbonation & fill/invert candi sugar John writes: >I'd like to suggest a humble solution: Sacrifice a lid and drill a hole in >the center large enough <snip> >bottle lids as a carbonation cap. An off-shoot of this idea was to install >valve stems on my kegs. I often have more kegs filled with beer awaiting >consumption than I have room in my fridge. In order to obtain the >"correct", or should I say desired, carbonation level I need to apply a >different CO2 pressure to the kegs that are not in the fridge that those >that are. A valve stem on the keg and an air chuck on the end of a CO2 >line make this task so much easier. With all due respect John, I must be missing something here... don't your kegs already have CO2-in fittings? Why does a valve stem and air chuck make this easier? Personally, I have never liked the idea of valve stems and beer containers because the rubber is guaranteed to *not* be food grade. *** Alex writes: >That is why many >commercially produced lagers go through one or more "diacetyl rests" >where they are allowed to warm up for a period of several hours at a >time to stimulate diacetyl reduction. Although I agree that diaceyl re-absorption is slower at colder temperatures (which was the main point of Alex's post), I'd like to point out that a diacetyl rest is not done more than once and is not for a few hours. The beer is gently warmed up to the high-50's or low-60's F, kept there for a day or two, and then gently cooled (over the course of a few days) to lagering temperatures. You can't cool the beer suddenly or the yeast will drop like a stone and you will have damaged yeast which won't lager your beer properly. Although I don't know of any brewers doing it, I suppose you could crash the yeast and the pitch more fresh yeast for the lagering. *** John writes: >3068 to often be too banana or bubblegum like. Banana and bubblegum are >desireable phenolics in a weizen but I do not think they should overwhelm >you. Whoops... sounds like a slip-up here... I can't believe that John meant to write that. He probably meant to say that "banana and bubblegum are desireable *esters*" not "phenolics." Of course we all know that aromas with phenolic sources are ones like "smoky," "clovey," "plastic," "medicinal," etc. *** Chas writes about his defective Carbonater(TM): >I'm considering using some marine goop or super-glue on the thing. But is >anyone else out there having similar troubles? If not I may simply return the >product and request a replacement. Return it. I've got a dozen or so (and have sold a few hundred) and none have this problem. Liquid Bread is a great company and really stands behind their products (no affiliation). >On the subject of HB products, how do folks who have Phil's Phase bottom like >the product? Any clogging/floating concerns? I am considering getting both >the sparge arm and bottom and wanted to hear some objective opinions from >those who have used these things. They work very well. One word of advice: use a rigid (copper, PE, or stainless steel) tube to go from the device to the cooler wall. It will solve both floating and "hose squishing" problems you get with flexible tubing. *** Scott writes: >I had my first batch of bottle bombs a couple of weeks ago. There >were many contributing factors, but I think the most critical were my >own sloppy and lazy procedures, and the fill level of the bottles. I >went back to the archives and looked at what's been discussed about >headspace in the past. Both Steve Alexander and AlK did experiments >that showed that an underfilled bottle would develop more carbonation, >while an overfilled bottle would develop less carbonation (both >compared to a "standard" fill). I agree with both of these >statements. It was theorized that the yeast would die off under >pressure, and that was the cause of the over-filled bottles being less >carbonated. I'm not sure I agree with this theory. Not exactly. What my expriments showed was that overfilled bottles had significantly less carbonation after a few weeks and also after a few months. "Standard" fill and several underfilled bottles (some severely underfilled) had the *SAME* level of carbonation. I don't have a plausable explanation for the physics (or biology) of what is happening, but the observed results are clear: a high fill in a bottle interferes with the carbonation process. My theory about why some brewers experience overcarbonation with underfilling, is that they are over-priming. If you prime too much AND overfill, I theorise that the two may be cancelling each other out. When you underfill, the carbonation is not inhibited and the beer overcarbonates. Note... this is just a theory... as yet untested. *** Eric writes: >I got no comments about my attempt at creating a Belgian Invert Candi Sugar- >boiling sucrose with honey and phosphoric acid to 150 C. Dave? Al? Alex? >Scott? Any observations? I've discussed this with a chemist (sorry, his name escapes me) and he said that unless you boil an incredibly long time, only a very small part of the sucrose gets inverted. The purpose of inverting the sugar was because pure sucrose syrup crystalises almost immediately. If you convert even a small portion of the sucrose into it's component glucose and fructose (that's the invert sugar part -- fructose defracts light the opposite (inverted) way relative to sucrose or glucose), the syrup does not crystalise. Inverting the sucrose was simly a way to store the sugar as a syrup. By the way... candi sugar is not invert sugar... it's simply sucrose. You're thinking of "Golden Syrup." They yeast will make invertase which will completely invert the sucrose (yeast can't eat sucrose without breaking it down into glucose and fructose), so you really gain little by inverting the sugar *partially* for the yeast. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:06:52 -0700 From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro) Subject: RE: Dry yeast / Weizen & starch haze Hi all, Tim Plummer asks why his fermentation has apparently stopped after just two days. He pitched dried yeast, and it took off right away. Well, without being there to take a hydrometer reading, I couldn't say for sure that your fermentation isn't stuck, but I'd bet a lot on it. When an adequate amount of yeast is pitched, fermentation of a "normal" gravity ale is quite fast. It could be done within 2 days. Take a hydrometer reading to know for sure. --------------------------- Dave Johnson asks about bottling his murky wheat beer, and wonders if it is murky because of starch or yeast. It's not really possible to know just by looking. My guess would be that the haze is from the yeast and proteins (wheat is very high in haze causing proteins). If you know that your procedures were likely to put starch in the final beer, then it could be a starch haze, too. Aside from being ugly, starch is bad to have in beer because of the microbiological instability it causes. Brewers yeast does not metabolize starch. Some other microbes can. No matter how careful you are, there will be some other bugs in your homebrew. The idea is to not give them an easy food source (i.e., starch). With no starch present, and a healthy pitching of yeast, the unwanted microbes won't fair very well. If they have access to food with no competition, they will flourish. Starchy beer will only get worse with age, because of the likelihood of a progressing infection. Drink it quickly! Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 10:22:41 From: braue at ratsnest.win.net (John W. Braue, III) Subject: Various This being one of the few days when I actually have time to respond to (as distinct from merely read) my mail, I have a couple of comments: "John Vaughn" <j_vaughn at ix.netcom.com> writes: >George De Piro mused about ascorbic acid's effect on aerated wort when >pitching. The question posed was, "Will the ascorbic acid use up all the >oxygen?" > >Now I'm certainly no expert on ascorbic acid, but I believe that it >protects whatever it is on (or in) from the effects of oxidation rather >than using up the oxygen. Close enough for government work. It should be noted that oxidation, although historically associated with the effects of free oxygen (hence the name), does not in fact require oxygen. Ascorbic acid does not affect oxygen metabolism in any case. Oxygen is poisonous to all higher organisms (what about that stuff you've been breathing, you ask? Well, we higher organisms have these cellular symbionts called "mitochondria", that actually make use of it...), but the actual harm done via oxidation is done by "free radicals". These are (over-simplifying somewhat) bits and pieces of molecules formed in the process of oxygen metabolism. Being only pieces of molecules, they are extremely aggressive in their attempts to become Compleat Molecules, and will react with anything in their paths, destroying DNA, producing all sorts of interesting (and harmful) compounds, cross-linking protein chains in the skin and arteries, etc. Ascrobic acid (and several other substances) appear to preferentially scavenge free radicals, preventing them from doing the deed. Bruce Baker <Bruce.E.Baker at tsy.treasury.govt.nz> asks: >Subject: HBD policies > >G'day y'all, > >In HBD 2425, the following policy was set forth: > >1. Our guiding principle is that the HBD should not censor or > delete *any* message that deals with beer or brewing. The > only exception is where the message *itself* is *clearly* > against the law; for example, a post containing an illegal > solicitation of investors for a microbrewery would be > deleted, but posts discussing marijuana beer or home > distilling -- while not encouraged -- would not > >Why is a message soliciting investors for a microbrewery illegal? It sounds >like >free speech to me. It might contravene some other HBD rule against commercial > solicitation, but it seems far less odious than a lot of stuff on the net. > Without launching on a tirade against the guvmint's peculiar interpretation of "free speech", let me note that it is held to be good U.S. law that solicitation of direct investment from the public can be done only through a MEGO-level document known as a "prospectus" (what the law is like in New Zealand, I have no idea). If you read the U.S. edition of the _Wall Street Journal_, you'll notice that the "tombstone" adverts invariably include the disclaimer like: "This advertisement is not an offer to sell or a solicitation of an offer to buy. That offer is made only through the prospectus." (The "tombstone", you see, is merely an advertisement that the prospectus is *available*; a subtle but legally efficacious distinction). No one is (I sincerely hope) going to dump a prospectus into the HBD, nor may prospectuses (prospecti?) be sent unsolicited, as to a mailing list. - -- John W. Braue, III braue at ratsnest.win.net akatsukami at aol.com I've decided that I must be the Messiah; people expect me to work miracles, and when I don't, I get crucified. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:18:40 EDT From: billp4 at juno.com (William H Plotner) Subject: Cranberry Lambic Fellow Brewers, Any body out there have an extract recipe for a close approximation of Sam Adams Cranberry Lambic? Thanks. Bill Plotner Colorado Springs, Co BillP4 at Juno.com In Search of the Eternal Brew Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 20:39:54 -0700 From: HARRY HOUCK <hhouck at ix.netcom.com> Subject: NHC Results, Californi & Nevada Finally, results from the NHC '97 judging in Fresno, CA. 536 entries. Sorry about the formatting! Barley Wine American-style Barley Wine Cam Ireland 38.00 First Barley Wine English-style Barley Wine Fred Waltman 32.50 Second Barley Wine English-style Barley Wine Joel Rosen 35.50 Third Belgian & French Ale Dubbel Ron Kline 36.00 First Belgian & French Ale Belgian Strong Ale Kelly Robinson 38.50 Second Belgian & French Ale White (Wit) Mike Smith 37.33 Third Belgian-style Lambic Fruit Lambic David Welch 38.00 First Belgian-style Lambic Belgian-style Lambic Bill Krouss 34.50 Second Mild & Brown Ale English Dark Mild Randy Norman 37.00 First Mild & Brown Ale American Brown Ale Rod Parsons 36.00 Second Mild & Brown Ale English Brown Ale Mike Riddle 36.50 Third English-style Pale Ale India Pale Ale David Welch 40.50 First English-style Pale Ale Classic English Pale Ale David Welch 41.50 Second English-style Pale Ale Classic English Pale Ale Ken Brown 41.00 Third American-style Ale American Pale Ale Ken Armstrong 39.00 First American-style Ale American-style Amber Ale Al Lemke 38.00 Second American-style Ale American Pale Ale Rod Parsons 40.00 Third English Bitter English Best Bitter Robert Drake 42.50 First English Bitter English Strong Bitter Jim Hilbing 42.50 Second English Bitter English Strong Bitter Ken Brown 42.50 Third Scottish Ale Scottish Export Ale David Parker 41.50 First Scottish Ale Scottish Heavy Ale Daniel Darnell 39.00 Second Scottish Ale Scottish Light Ale Kevin Knox 34.00 Third Porter Brown Porter Mike Riddle 32.00 First Porter Robust Porter Patrick Mc Kee 39.33 Second Porter Robust Porter James Weiner 36.67 Third English & Scottish Strong Strong Scotch Ale Daniel Darnell 37.50 First English & Scottish Strong Old Ale/english Strong Peter Zien 36.50 Second English & Scottish Strong Strong Scotch Ale Richard Wenzlik 35.00 Third Stout Classic Irish-style Dry Stout Mike Fitzgerald 41.00 First Stout Oatmeal Stout Wayne Baker 36.00 Second Stout Foreign-style Stout Charles Hessom 42.00 Third Bock Eisbock Mike Brenner 44.50 First Bock Doppelbock Tom Estudillo 39.00 Second Bock Traditional Bock Tom Gaworski 39.50 Third German Dark Lager Munich Dunkel Peter Johnson 39.00 First German Dark Lager Schwarzbier Tom Estudillo 39.50 Second German Dark Lager Munich Dunkel Robert Ethington 34.00 Third German Light Lager Munich Helles Harrison Gibbs 32.50 First German Light Lager Munich Helles Dan Taylor 31.50 Second Classic Pilsener German-style Pilsener Daniel Darnell 36.50 First Classic Pilsener German-style Pilsener Ken Armstrong 35.00 Third American Lager American-style Premium Chad Thistle 41.00 First American Lager American-style Light Lager George Proper 34.50 Second American Lager Lager/ale or Cream Ale Byron Burch 34.50 Third Vienna/marzen/oktober Marzen/oktoberfest Tom Gaworski 42.50 First Vienna/marzen/oktober Vienna David Streeter 40.00 Second Vienna/marzen/oktober Marzen/oktoberfest Wayne Burgstahler 38.50 Third German-style Ale Dusseldorf-style Altbier Mike Riddle 39.25 First German-style Ale Kolsch Jim Hilbing 37.75 Second German-style Ale Dusseldorf-style Altbier Jon Appleton 36.00 Third German-style Wheat Beer Weizen/weissbier Rod Parsons 42.00 First German-style Wheat Beer Weizenbock Mark Stuart 37.50 Second German-style Wheat Beer Weizenbock David Teesdale 42.00 Third Smoked Beer Bamberg-style Rauchbier Ron Kline 36.17 First Smoked Beer Bamberg-style Rauchbier Jeffrey Sternfeld 35.33 Second Smoked Beer Bamberg-style Rauchbier Tom Spaulding 31.00 Third Fruit & Vegetable Beer Fruit & Vegetable Beer Kevin Johnson 39.33 First Fruit & Vegetable Beer Classic-style Mike Riddle 36.50 Second Fruit & Vegetable Beer Fruit & Vegetable Beer J. Helmich 34.00 Third Herb & Spice Beer Classic-style Patrick Mc Kee 41.00 First Herb & Spice Beer Classic-style Ron Kline 34.50 Second Herb & Spice Beer Herb & Spice Beer Tim Johnston 40.50 Third Specialty Beer Specialty Beer Craig Azevedo 38.33 First Specialty Beer Specialty Beer Tim Dozier 36.83 Second Specialty Beer Specialty Beer Wayne Burgstahler 36.00 Third California Common Beer California Common Beer Carl Weyl 42.00 First California Common Beer California Common Beer Craig Toms 39.00 Second California Common Beer California Common Beer Bob Thompson 37.50 Third Fruit & Vegetable Mead Still Melomel Gunther Jensen 41.00 First Fruit & Vegetable Mead Still Melomel Byron Burch 41.50 Second Fruit & Vegetable Mead Sparkling Pyment Dan Taylor 41.33 Third Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:08:08 +0000 From: "Robert Marshall" <robertjm at hooked.net> Subject: Way to regulate air temperature?? Well, I got my scoring sheets back from yet another brewing contest. Yet again a judge, several infact, write, "...watch fermentation temperature." I ferment in a basement which fluctuates between 65-74 degrees generally. Can anyone make any suggestions on how I might be able to control this better and keep it in the low to mid 60s at most? Obviously I could buy a fridge, but I'm looking for a cheaper alternative. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Later, Robert Marshall robertjm at hooked.net http://www.hooked.net/users/robertjm/beerbook.htm - ------ "They who drink beer will think beer." Washington Irving - (1783-1859) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 21:04:24 -0700 From: "Grant W. Knechtel" <GWK at hartcrowser.com> Subject: marijuana in beer Forgive me as a newbie if this subject has been flogged to death, but I glanced at a small book in the bookstore by some "outlaw" brewers about using marijuana in beer. It was several months ago, and I can't remember the title or author. It was fairly comprehensive about such a limited subject. Scanned the recipes - basically they were for standard beers with 1 or 2 ounces dry-hopped (dry potted?) in the secondary. The point was, as was stated earlier, that THC is only slightly soluble in water and somewhat more so in alcohol. Normally I'm a sucker for any new brew book which comes out, but couldn't see much point in adding hundreds of dollars worth of adjunct for so little effect, especially since I never liked the stuff much even when it was cheaper and more socially acceptable. I guess one could make an extract with vodka, maybe even pressure cook in Everclear, but why bother? If someone wanted to pursue it further, the bookstore was Borders in Tacoma, WA. The book was about a hundred pages, paperback with (I think) a green cover. I have no affiliation with the store, etc., etc. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 06:03:02 -0700 From: John Sullivan <sullvan at anet-stl.com> Subject: Using Gelatine Finings Andy: Here is how I use gelatin to help drop the non-flocculant yeast in my beer. Take 1 or 2 of the packets of gelatin and mix with approximately a pint of clean tap water. Apply heat and stir. I stir with a dairy thermometer so I know exactly what the temperature is. When the temp hits 160F, I kill the heat and cover the pan with plastic wrap (or the lid will do also). Wait 5-10 minutes. The 160F temperatures will help to ensure that everything is sanitized and for all practical purposes pasteurized. Some will argue the time and temp is not sufficient, yada yada yada but I will stand by the procedure. There is probably nothing wild growing on the gelatin or in your water that will withstand 160F for any amount of time. Mind your temperatures because you do not want the gelatin to set on you. Add to your secondary and rack the yeasty beer directly into the gelatin solution. There should be enough mixing from the flow of the siphon but you can also stir gently with a sanitized tool when racking is complete to ensure that the gelatin solution is evenly dispersed. You should see dramatic results in 2 to 3 days. I would not recommend using this procedure unless I am sure that the haze is from yeast. If I am unsure, I would use the same procedure described above but also add two tablespoons of polyclar to the gelatin solution. Polyclar dissolves as well as the gelatin. This method works well for me. John Sullivan St. Louis, MO Return to table of contents
Date: 28 May 97 07:53:56 EDT From: aesoph at ncemt1.ctc.com (Aesoph, Michael) Subject: Hops Medicine Collective: Does anyone out there have the HBD from 2-3 days back? I am looking for the little article on the medicinal aspect of hops. Please send via private EMail. =============================================== Michael D. Aesoph, Mechanical Engineer Concurrent Technologies Corp. Phone: (814) 269-2758 211 Industrial Park Road FAX: (814) 269-4458 Johnstown, PA 15904 EMail: aesoph at ctc.com Return to table of contents
Date: 28 May 1997 09:10:56 -0400 From: "John Penn" <john_penn at spacemail.jhuapl.edu> Subject: Ruined? continued. Subject: Time:8:52 AM OFFICE MEMO Ruined? continued. Date:5/28/97 Well I bottled that stout with the high FG, it was based on AlK's Spread It On Toast Imperial Stout but with M&F in place of the Laaglander. I had aerated it when I racked to the secondary, possibly to the beers detriment, and repitched some more yeast. Anyway I was glad to see that it had dropped another 5 or 6 pts and was about 1.034-1.035 from a starting gravity of 1.085, about a 60% attenuation. I got mixed messages about whether I had ruined the beer or not so I'll wait and see. The batch sat in primary for a week with three extremely active fermentation days, then slowed dramatically. The SG was 1.040 after a week and after another two weeks in the secondary it was down to a more reasonable 1.034-1.035, there was virtually no bubbles the last few days. It tasted fairly sweet-about 60 IBUs (Rager)-but was very good so far. I only added 3oz of priming sugar, a little light on the carbonation. I got mixed reviews on wether it was ruined or not so I'll post a follow up in a couple of months when it has aged a little. John Penn Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 07:09:55 -0700 From: David Johnson <dmjalj at inwave.com> Subject: Chi Pwi Gees When looking over your friends recipe, I would suggest that this is probably the current incarnation of the recipe. I live in Wisconsin and we don't grow any of the grapefruit here. It must be substituting for something else. Also, what converts the starch in the potatoes? Can grapefruit do that? this might be one starchy brew(part of its charm?). I think it might be important to preserve this part of brewing heritage and ask your friend to find some older folk who might know how this was brewed long ago. Back to the grapefruit example, there is probably some kind of native fruit with a similar of flavor profile or just plain sour or bitter. If I was a guessing man, I would guess that the older recipe might use honey or maple sap or syrup as part of the recipe and might have been a form of mead. I would agree that using a more refined yeast might help the product, but would want to capture what it is that makes your friend prefer it before we change it too much (and make it too much like what we already are doing). I think that there is an opportunity here. Do you feel like Pierre Celis? Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 08:49:45 -0600 From: wesc at mails.imed.com (Wes Clement) Subject: calculating strike water temp I need to know how to calculate the temperature of strike water (and the amount) for single step infusions. Example: Given I have a 12 lbs of grain at 75F. How much and at what temperature should the strike water be in order to establish a mash temperature of 154F? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 11:26:22 -0500 From: dcstanza at OCC.PASEN.GOV Subject: CO2 cylinders\; Safety I have only been a subscriber (lurker) to the HBD for two months now, and am amazed at the collective thoughts, experiences and good advice from those who post here. Your input is much appreciated. I am a very newbie (only two extract batches, so far) and am in the process of setting up a corny system. I have been able to pick up great advice from those who have posted on this issue in particular. In HBD #2428, Mr. Charlie Scandrett posted the following: "I have posted in the past about keg bombs and the dangers of working with pressurised gas. Some have suggested that I lighten up?" I would agree that there is no such thing as "lighten up" when the issue is safety (and lives) as far as pressurized gas is concerned. The keg bomb would be instantaneous should someone be foolish enough to connect up a Co2 bottle WITHOUT the regulator! In no way should we assume that everyone is aware of these facts. He also added an interesting post from another forum pointing out first-hand experience with Co2 cylinders: ">One of the #20 bottles had a loss of structural integrity at a weld >near the bottom of the bottle." I am somewhat surprised by this sentence; a few years ago, my father had a fire extinguisher sales and service business that I helped with. I was trained and licensed to run the federally required hydro-testing procedure that these (co2) cylinders must go through (correctly stated in the post) at a maximum of 5 year intervals. What this means is that, legally, a cylinder with an expired hydro-test date cannot (and should not) be refilled - not that it cannot be used. Always check the date yourself before going to get your cylinder refilled and take it where it wi= ll be hydro-tested if it has been 5 years since undergoing its last test. If a cylinder has significant rust or evidence of possible damage, it may be tested PRIOR to the expiration of the hydro-test date. It may be an old and worn-out addage, but it's never been more true; "better safe than sorry". I am under the impression that under no circumstances were "repairs" or "welded seams" allowed to these cylinders. These are usually spun steel or aluminum cylinders with NO seams. It is quite possible that I am either mistaken by my recollection, or that the regulations have been changed, but I don't think so. One other point - the weakest part of the cylinder, and therefore the most dangerous, is the end of the neck - or more technically correct, the part where the valve assembly meets ( and sticks out of) the cylinder. Should the cylinder fall over, it's own weight could be enough to snap the valve assembly off - with exposive results - instantaneous Co2 rocket! Be sure to take steps that protect from this happening. Just wanted to add my $.02 worth on what is such an important safety issue. Thanks again for such a great brewing resource! Dave Costanza (Dcostanza at occ.pasen.gov) Harrisburg, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 10:54:54 -6 From: "Dave Draper" <ddraper at utdallas.edu> Subject: IBU estimates in high-grav worts Dear Friends, I had a private email from a fellow HBDer named Brad Manbeck asking about estimating IBUs when one is constrained to use a small-volume, and hence high-gravity, boil. This is the case for many homebrewers who dominantly use extracts and do "partial" boils in smaller kettles. I thought I would summarize my reply to him here and solicit input-- is this approach reasonable? I will be using the utilization data of Tinseth in this discussion, but it should be general to any formulation. Here's the situation. We all know that most of the well-known IBU formulations incorporate some kind of factor that accounts for the loss of utilization in high-gravity worts, and these are thought to have varying degrees of accuracy. One way in which this uncertainty could be greatest is in a highly concentrated wort. Now, because IBUs are defined in terms of weight of isomerized alpha-acids per unit volume of wort, the final wort volume is a crucial parameter. The larger the volume, the more diluted the dissolved weight of iso-alphas will be, and hence the less bitter will be the final beer. It could be that a low-volume, high-gravity boil topped up with water to the final volume is close to worst-case as far as getting the most reliable IBU estimate is concerned. Trouble is, most of the data available on utilization come from experiments that worked the other way: the initial volume of wort was a lot *greater* than the final volume, so that the final gravity was the most concentrated it ever gets, and gravities earlier in the boil are lower; more importantly, these earlier gravities are typically sufficiently low (in the 1040s or so, or lower) that there will be little effect on utilization from higher gravity. So here's my idea about estimating how big the effect might be. Calculate the IBUs twice: first using the smaller volume and whatever gravity you actually have *of that smaller volume*, and the second time with the final volume and gravity. In principle there will be a difference, and this difference should give you some idea how much utilization you are losing by boiling at the low volume. Here's an example. Consider a beer that will ultimately consist of 5 gal of 1.050 but for which the boil volume will be only 3 gal. Let's keep it simple and model a single hop addition of 1 oz of 8% AA hops boiling for 60 minutes, assuming the volume of wort stays constant (not realistic but an endmember case). Using the Tinseth data (and Pat Anderson's TINIBUW program to calculate with them), and putting in these values, the result is 27.2 IBU. Now let's calculate what the gravity of that very same liquid would be if it were concentrated down to 3 gallons. 5/3 * 50 grav points= 83, or 1.083. Now, put in 3 gal of 1.083 in TINIBUW with the same 1 oz of 8%AA hops for 60 min, with the same assumption of unchanging volume, and the result is 33.7 IBU. But hey wait, shouldn't it be *lower*, since the gravity is higher? Yes, but the effect of lower volume (greater concentration of iso-alphas) outperforms that of higher gravity, at least as reckoned in the Tinseth formulation. When you add that last 2 gal of water (which has zero IBUs) to that 3 gal of 1.083-gravity, 33.7-IBU wort, you have diluted both gravity and IBUs. The gravity we already know will end up at 1.050, and with a similar calculation we can get at the final IBUs. 3/5 * 33.7 =20.2 is the answer-- we have diluted the 33.7 IBUs down to about 20 by adding the 2 gal of water at the end. So, what we have done is reach the endpoint, 5 gallons of 1.050 beer, by two paths, one in which the wort was never concentrated, and one in which it was. You can see by comparing the value for the concentrated version, 20.2, with the 27.2 we got for the un-concentrated version that utilization will suffer to the extent that the IBU estimate will be about 25% to 30% too high, from having a higher gravity boil. That is, with no attempt to account for the decreased utilization due to high gravity, we'd estimate about 27 IBUs, but when this kind of approach is used, the new estimate comes out appreciably lower. I make no claim that this kind of back-of-the-envelope calculation is highly accurate, but it should at least serve as some kind of guide. As with everything else, one will have to experiment some to see what works best. I also intentionally ignore other complicating factors, such as whether one uses a hop bag, or whether one waits for hot break to form before adding hops, etc. etc, in order to isolate this one factor. I'd love to hear from anyone who is still awake about whether this approach seems sensible as a way for "partial boilers" to get more accurate IBU estimates. Cheers and sorry for being so long winded, Dave in Dallas - --- ***************************************************************************** Dave Draper, Dept Geosciences, U. Texas at Dallas, Richardson TX 75083 ddraper at utdallas.edu Home page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper Beer page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper/beer.html That's all very well in practice; but will it work in *theory*? ---Ken Willing Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 09:01:31 -0700 (PDT) From: palmer at San-Jose.ate.slb.com (Eric Palmer) Subject: burners and BTU If I were to look for a propane burner that can handle a 5 gal boil with ease, what kind of BTUs should I look for and what price should I expect to pay? TIA, Eric Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 11:05:35 -0500 From: "David W. Schoemaker" <dschoemaker at ameritech.net> Subject: Cherry Stout >Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 11:44:12 EDT >From: billp4 at juno.com (William H Plotner) >Subject: Cherries in my Stout >HBD'ers, >I've been reading the HBD for a while and finally have a question to >post. >I am fermenting a cherry stout. The question is, how long do I want to >keep the cherries in the primary? Normally, I wait until the vigorous >fermentation is done then rack into my secondary.Usually jest a few days. > Would I want to leave it in the primary longer? How much longer? >Thanks for any help. >Bill Plotner >Colorado Springs >Billp4 at Juno.com >In Search of the Eternal Brew Make sure you use sour cherries. I add mine to the secondary, and leave them there around a month. Freezing them or crushing them prior to adding them will make the process go smoother. You may want to have a slightly sweeter beer than normal, as they will add some sourness/acidity to your beer that needs to be balanced. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:36:42 -0400 (EDT) From: DGofus at aol.com Subject: Summer Brewing Since summer is right around the bend, what effects does this have on my brewing. I am a newbie and this is my first summer. I realize that temp. has a big effect on taste. My brewhouse (Basement) is about 64-66 degrees now. I have a batch on the stove today and one more in waiting...a Canadian ale. Should this be my last? Should I hope my reserve get me through the summer, or stock up on...... { : ^ ( egads, store bought refreshment? I could handle that, nut the cost of drinking good brew is outrageous. ( Why ? lower the price sell more volume to the average joe six pack.) Thanks for any help Bob Fesmire Madman Brewery Pottstown, PA Dgofus at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 14:25:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Eugene Sonn <eugene at dreamscape.com> Subject: tart berries in beer Hello HBDers, A friend of mine wants to make a fruit beer with a tart berry (I forget which kind of berry). I've already checked the archives and don't see recipes for fruit beers which don't use sweet berries. How should my friend balance the tart flavor, with honey? If so, how much for a 5 gallon batch? Please e-mail privately and I'll post results to the HBD. Eugene eugene at nova.dreamscape.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 09:32:35 +200 From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling at azona.co.za> Subject: Must I prime again ? Hello, I recently made a lager using a double decoction mashing and using wyeast munich lager yeast. My start gravity was 1050 and my end gravity was 1010. The beer fermented at the correct temperature specified for the yeast and I transferred it to a secondary and lagered it for two weeks just above freezing point. The result was a VERY clear beer. After the two weeks I bottled it and used my normal priming procedure ( adding sugar solution to each bottle before filling). I capped the bottles and left it to carbonate. On day three after bottling I tried the first one. I knew it would be flat but hell I couldnt wait no more. Well it was flat. On day seven it was still flat. On day 10 it was still flat. I am getting worried that it would be flat on day infinity. There were no bleach left in the bottles to kill the yeast. So this cant be the problem. I decided to wait 14 days and see if the carbonation is still a problem. Can it be that after the lagering procedure that almost no yeast ended up in the bottle ? It is difficult to believe this although this beer is the clearest I have ever made. What else could have gone wrong ? What should I do ? Thanks! Braam Greyling I.C. Design Engineer Azona(Pty)Ltd tel +27 12 6641910 fax +27 12 6641393 You can taste a good beer with one sip, but it is better to make thoroughly sure. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:14:10 +200 From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling at azona.co.za> Subject: Corny/ss question Yello, During July I am going on a hunting trip in Namibia. I hope I am not offending anyone. Anyway, I want to take few kegs of beer with me as we will live in the bush for a few days and will have no place to buy beer from. We have limited space in the vehicles so I will have to store some of the meat in the empty cornies when we are coming back. Traditionally we use vinegar and salt and spices to preserve the meat. What I want to know is will it be safe when a mix of vinegar and salt comes into contact with the corney`s stainless steel or rubber parts. What will the best method be to clean the cornies afterwards. Probably caustic soda ? Thanks very much in advance. Braam Greyling I.C. Design Engineer Azona(Pty)Ltd tel +27 12 6641910 fax +27 12 6641393 You can taste a good beer with one sip, but it is better to make thoroughly sure. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 18:07:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Paul A. Hausman" <paul at lion> Subject: Clear Weizen??? On Tue, 27 May 1997 08:23:17 -0400, MARK WOOD wrote: > > David Johnson <dmjalj at inwave.com> wrote . . . > > << I just made a bavarian style weizen. I used wyeast 3068 and it has > > finished fermenting and is now sitting there looking murkily at me. I > > know that this yeast doesn't floc well and that the style can be > > cloudy but should I go ahead and bottle "Big Muddy". >> > > > I'm currently brewing my second batch of Weizen, using Wyeast 3068. > The first batch is just 10 days in the bottle, but it's already > delicious !! I hate to rub it in, but my Weizen finished very clean > and clear. It can almost pass for a Pilsner <<<SNIP>>> > It's true the 3068 doesn't floculate particularly well. My bottles > aren't horribly yeasty, but it's much harder to pour without getting > some yeast in your glass. Still, this is style appropriate. If > you're in doubt, I suggest giving it plenty of time in the secondary. > This beer is great with minimal bottle conditioning and is a very > refreshing hot weather beer. > > Woody I'm going to be sampling my ninth or tenth weizen batch tonight. It's one of my favorites to brew or drink. Particularly in the summer. I just couldn't resist commenting on a few details here: 1. It's supposed to be cloudy. (Pick up a bottle of Hacker-Pshorr in the local booze supply.) I usually leave it in the secondary for about 2 weeks (after a 5-7 day primary). If it's not clear, bottle anyhow. Then gloat 'cause you've got the style right. A clear weizen may taste great, but it's not to style. (Sorry Woody, If you offer me a bottle, I won't turn it down.) ;-) 2. Bavarian Weisse is often called "Hefe Weisse". Hefe is german for yeast. The idea is that you drink that too. If you haven't tried, be bold, turn the bottle up hard and let all the yeast mix in. If you don't like it, go back to decanting; but you probably will. Then you can act the connoissuer at parties and tell everyone else how "it's supposed to be drunk", making a royal bore of yourself. 3. It's a great summer beer. It likes to ferment at 68-70 oF; It's quite refreshing on a summer day; and it can go from malt to perfect for drinking in only 5-6 weeks (I figure 1 week primary, 2 weeks secondary and 2-3 weeks in the bottle). - -- Paul A. Hausman <Paul at Lion.com> Lafayette, NJ, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 28 May 97 18:39:16 CDT From: jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson) Subject: Fermentation temps I have been having a little trouble keeping fermentation temps as low as I would like. I have a refrigerator I ferment in and set the controller to 62F for ales. I usually ferment in a 10 gallon SS soft drink keg with a thermometer strip stuck on it. I was fermenting a 9 gallon batch last weekend which I had chilled from the kettle to sanitized buckets which were placed in the fridge for about an hour before pouring to the fermenter, oxygenating, and pitching. The fridge was below 50F but I didn't check the temp of the wort as I did not have a sanitized thermometer handy. It should have been well below 70F, though. I pitched a healthy yeast slurry after oxygenating thoroughly and the airlock was bubbling steadily a few hours later. The next day foam was pushing out of the airlock and the strip thermometer on the side of the fermenter read 75F. The fridge was still set at 62F and had been since pitching. Could the ferment be generating that much heat or could the strip thermometer be that far off? I realize that the air in the fridge is not the most efficient way to remove heat but the fermenter is too large to set in a bucket of water and ultimately the problem of transfer of heat from liquid to air remains. I don't think I can afford a glycol jacket for my fermenter. Any ideas? Thanks, John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at imtn.dsccc.com Return to table of contents