HOMEBREW Digest #2438 Wed 11 June 1997

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  "Nut Brown" Ale ? ("RTALBOT")
  Flaked Barley/Extract ("David R. Burley")
  rootbeer questions/ honey/ software ("Rich Byrnes")
  Re: Archives ("Karl F. Lutzen")
  Hop Teas (eric fouch)
  Hop growing in low lattitudes. ("Graham Wheeler")
  San Antonio Beers?? (DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932)
  Sources for Gott coolers (Steven Lichtenberg)
  Refrigerator question (George De Piro)
  CO2 supersaturation? ("Dave Draper")
  Belgian water profiles now available ("Dave Draper")
  RE: Filtered beer taste / Really long mashing (George De Piro)
  Hop rhizomes and a missed opportunity (David Johnson)
  Alcohol and the Brain: Recent Findings ("Adam Rich")
  RIMS RFC ("Fritz, Kent")
  Re: tartness (korz)
  Practical aspects of microbrewing - workshop/ CO2 toxicity (hugh)
  Where can I find Weissen glassware (Jim Wallace)
  Aromatic versus Special B/pressed yeast/lagering (korz)
  Coopers Sparkling Ale/gallons/thin Pilsner/HBD protocols/pre-boil HSA (korz)
  Valley Mill Summary (Rob Kienle)
  Grow your own.... ("Stephen Jordan")

NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS: hbd.org Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hbd.org (Articles are published in the order they are received.) If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to homebrew-request@hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL **ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!! IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org Homebrew Digest Information on the Web: http://hbd.org Requests for back issues will be ignored. Back issues are available via: Anonymous ftp from... hbd.org /pub/hbd ftp.stanford.edu /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer E-mail... ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com (send a one-line e-mail message with the word help for instructions.) AFS users can find it under... /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Jun 97 07:19:45 est From: "RTALBOT" <rtalbot at casdemail.casde.com> Subject: "Nut Brown" Ale ? All, Newbie here. Ready to brew my 5th batch, so far so good. Can anybody help me with an extract recipe for a "Nut Brown"? All inputs appreciated ! Thanks ! Bob T Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:03:30 -0400 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Flaked Barley/Extract Brewsters: Matt ( wishing to brew a stout for his wife) gets offered this "improvement" in a suggested stout recipe: = >It will work fine just to steep the flaked barley and roasted barley at 150 F >for 30 min. I would up the flaked barley to 1 # though, also, it will >taste more like Guinness if you use Wyeast 1084 (Irish ale yeast). I ma= de >essentially this same receipe and it turned out great !! Several comments on the use of extracts in combo with adjuncts, recently,= remind me that many extract users do not fully appreciate that there are different kinds of extracts available. Diastatic and non-diastatic. EDME and the like which are diastatic malt extracts form a good base for your brews. This means they can reduce some *gelatinized* starch to maltose. If the extract container doesn't say diastatic it isn't and can= 't reduce starch. Use of things like flaked barley, cooked adjuncts, etc. = will only produce a starchy, cloudy beer at best ( perhaps hidden by the stout's color) if you use non-diastatic malt extracts. In this stout recipe, the main function of the barley is to increase the heading properties by providing albumin ( water soluble protein) and some= carbohydrate. 8 - 10 ounces is probably all right for most uses. Don't spoil the stout by adding chocolate malt as many brew-pubs do. I suspec= t the EDME "light" version (which is darker than the pale) is the correct base or you could use 8 ounces of dark crystal with the pale base in addition to the roast barley ( which gives taste and color) to the stout.= Don't overdo it with the caramel flavors. I haven't made extract brews f= or many years, but during my two year stint in Britain, nearly three decades= ago, I did a lot of extract brewing with EDME and found it to be of consistent high quality. I hope they have maintained that quality. I recently made a John Bull Stout for a brewing class I teach and in my opinion it is loaded with molasses and other stuff based on the taste and= its fermentation performance. The 1084 Irish Ale yeast never really fermented vigorously, even though it went in as a full size, active starter. (I have had excellent luck with this yeast in all-grain stouts o= f my own - but guess it is a bottom fermenter used for bottling). I can on= ly assume that the nitrogen content was too low to support yeast growth, as would be the case if this product contained a high percentage of sugar. I= assume it was non-diastatic, since I don't recall reading that on the container. I don't know if John Bull LME is diastatic or not, since I have never see= n a can of this product. My suggestion. Stick with 100% malt extracts as your base (approx 80%) which are diastatic and use the milled, steeped ( at 155 F) adjuncts procedure until you move on to all grain brews. You will make much better= beer and you know what is in your brew, unlike many of these "ready made"= extract blends of malt extract, coloring agents and sugar. - -------------------------------------------------- Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com = Voice e-mail OK = Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:06:50 EDT From: "Rich Byrnes" <rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com> Subject: rootbeer questions/ honey/ software Greetings Beerlings and lurkers alike... 1) Just brewed and kegged my first batch of rootbeer, YUM! Took the standard brown/yellow box of flavoring with 2oz of saspirilla, 2 lbs of sugar, 2.5lbs honey, 1 tbls vanilla and kegged it up (steeped and strained the saspirilla first) Has anyone experimented with different brands of rootbeer extracts? Any recommendations? Kegged it and threw 30lbs of CO2 on it on Saturday, getting a wee bit fizzy as of last night, should carbonate nicely soon. Do rootbeer keggers use a 8-10' hose to reduce the blast form a highly carbonated keg? ********************************************************************* 2) Another kegging question, has anyone experimented with adding honey directly to the dispensing keg for flavor/body? I'm not talking about priming sugars, would still use CO2 for priming. ********************************************************************* 3) Have used Brewers Workshop for a couple years now and love it. I had a couple e-mail conversations with Tom Nelson about some suggestions, I beefed up the databases with tons of grains & yeasts, and had some more suggestions, but he appeared to dissappear. Does anyone have a clue where he or TKO software is? How bout an e-mail address, thanks! Love the "new" HBD Pat/Karl & others, keep up the good work! (Pat, good luck finding a decent supplier near your summer home. Come home soon buddy, we miss you!) Regards,_Rich Byrnes: President/Founder Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen \\\|/// phone #(313)323-2613, fax #390-4520_______o000_(.) (.)_000o rbyrnes2.ford at e-mail.com (_) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 07:31:27 -0500 (CDT) From: "Karl F. Lutzen" <lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org> Subject: Re: Archives Ih HBD 2436 Rene' wrote: > I just wanted to remind all HBD users that there is an Archive where you > can search for old threads that potentialy deal with the question you > have in mind. If you have internet access you can go to > http://alpha.rollanet.org and find it under HBD. And also points out that users can go here and search before posting. This is all correct, however that the HTML version of the HBD and its search engine only cover from 1992 to present (haven't had time to finish the work started), so you are not searching the ENTIRE data repository. The more pressing issue, though, is that Monday night (June 9, 1997) I finished moving/converting the files to the hbd.org host. Truely ALL aspects of the HBD now are under one roof. The ftp archives, the digest software, the HBD Web info pages, and now the HTML-ized HBD themselves, plus search engine are now all on the same host. The link for the HTML-ized HBD is http://hbd.org/hbd/ (we haven't added to the front page yet). ================================================================== Karl Lutzen lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org System Administrator The Brewery http://alpha.rollanet.org/ HBD, HBD Janitor, and all around Mad Man. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 07:37:35 -0500 (EST) From: eric fouch <S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021.efouch%Steelcase-Inc at mcimail.com> Subject: Hop Teas Date: Tuesday, 10 June 1997 8:31am ET To: STC012.HOMEBRE3 at STC010.SNADS From: Eric.Fouch at STC001 Subject: Hop Teas In-Reply-To: The letter of Tuesday, 10 June 1997 4:53am ET HBD- Paul Haaf asks about hop teas. I have tried a few methods that worked out quite well: For a single cup, I put one large (about 1/2 inch long) pellet (Cascades) in the cup and nuke it to boiling. Sweeten with a tsp. sugar and either drink it off the dregs, or decant to another cup. Another method I've used is to use the "spent" hops used for dry-hopping. After fishing out the dry-hopping bag, I boiled it in two quarts of water for ten minutes. Then, I diluted it up to one gallon and sweetened with 1/2 cup corn sugar. It tastes lousy cold, but I kept it in the 'fridge, and nuked cups for hot tea. I also tried this with some ground coriander and curaco used to dry-spice a Belgian Ale, diluting it to a half gallon. I liked this one better than the hop tea. Of course, YMMV, depending on the acid content of hops used and personal taste. I get accused around my house of eating and drinking anything that's slower than I am. Funny thing is, the more I eat, the fewer items there are on my menu... Eric Fouch Efouch at steelcase.com Bent Dick Yactobrewery Kentwood, MI RED WINGS RULE]] McCarty is a skating GOD] Did you see him school Niinima and Hextall on the game (Cup) winning goal? Almost better than the L.L. boob shot....almost. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:05:43 +0100 From: "Graham Wheeler" <Graham.Wheeler at btinternet.com> Subject: Hop growing in low lattitudes. AL.K. questions whether a short distance of about 200 miles would be enough to make a difference to the same variety of hop grown in say, East Kent and Worcestershire. Perhaps I was pushing my luck a bit there, but, nevertheless, the same variety of hop grown in our (England's) two major hop growing regions can have different characteristics, and I was merely using daylength as a possible explanation. In fact, soil composition and climate are not much different between the two regions either (but husbandry may be). Nevertheless, from what I have read about the photoperiodic response of hops, I would not be at all surprised to learn that 20 minutes is enough to make a difference. However, Tim's problem is not the quality of his hops, but getting some in the first place. My money is still on daylength and the seasonal variations therein. There is a magical line of about 35 degrees north, below which hops do not grow naturally. Tim is below this magical line; all other correspondents that are successfully growing hops are, so far, above this line. Tom Pope is just above the line and he can successfully grow only some varieties of hop. Neve, in his book, mentions hop growing in Kashmir (actually at 35 deg north), and he says that they get two flushes of flowers. Flowering begins before the longest day, stops when the critical daylength for the plant is exceeded, and flowering resumes after the longest day when daylength drops below critical daylength. I don't know how to do the calculations, but I would bet that at 35 degrees N, the difference in daylength, say, 3 weeks before longest day, and 3 weeks after it, is only a matter of minutes. Australian experience gives more evidence. A number of early attempts at growing hops in New South Wales (34 deg S) failed, and it wasn't until someone tried growing hops in Tasmania (41 deg S.) that the first hops were grown in the southern hemisphere. They now grow hops in Victoria (37 deg S), but still seem to be limited to Pride of Ringwood. The Australians have an additional problem in that the hop is really a northern hemisphere plant, and the temperature/daylength profiles are probably all wrong for it. Tom Pope's mention of cooling the soil may have been a method of bringing some plants out of dormancy. The hop plant, for instance, needs at least six weeks below 40F to come fully out of dormancy (even the seeds). I don't know what winters in Texas are like, but if Tim is successful at growing hops, he may then have a problem with dormancy (an important part of the hop's life-cycle). The hops will not go into dormancy if the daylength isn't short enough to trigger it, and will not come out of dormancy again if the winter isn't cold enough to trigger that. Graham Wheeler High Wycombe England Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:16:01 +0000 (GMT) From: DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932 <BRADLEY_DAVID_A at LILLY.COM> Subject: San Antonio Beers?? If you could help me, I'd like to hear any recommendations for or against some of the brewpubs and microbreweries listed in the various web sites. I'll be there June 21st-26th, and I'll need good beer! The Frio? The Laboratory? Others? Others out there attending the N.O.S.? Dave in Indy Home of the 3-B Brewery, v. Ltd. Email Bradley_David_A at Lilly.Com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:20:22 -0400 From: Steven Lichtenberg <slichten at mnsinc.com> Subject: Sources for Gott coolers good morning all. Any of you looking for Gott coolers, I found a source for them pretty cheap. Price Club/Costco had them (as of last night at the local one here) for 19.99 (five gallon). They had both orange and white ones (not that there is a difference but some people think color matters). They also had 58 quart Coleman coolers for 18.99 and 70 quart ones for 38.99. The 58 quart is a perfect size for 1/2 barrel brewers like myself. Maybe not quite as flexible as a third keg but for the price it is hard to turn down, **** ---- "There's always time for a Homebrew!" ---- **** O| | -------------- Steven Lichtenberg ---------------- | |O \__/ ------------ slichten at mnsinc.com ------------- \__/ ----------- Programmer at Large ------------ ---------- Lichtenberg Consulting ---------- ----------- Gaithersburg, MD ------------- --------------------------------------------- ENJOY LIFE -- THIS IS NOT A REHEARSAL Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:53:11 -0700 From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro) Subject: Refrigerator question Hi all! A friend of mine remodeled her kitchen and gave me the old fridge (standard kitchen upright, freezer on top). When it left her house, it was working. It was driven by truck 0.5 miles to my house, where I tried to gently put it in my basement (but since I was working alone, it wasn't all that gentle an experience). I plugged it in, all excited about my new toy, only to be disappointed by the lack of any mechanical sounds coming from the unit! I did a check for loose wires, but found none. I know that it is getting power because the light works. Yes, I turned the thermostat to the coldest setting, so it is not simply an on/off problem. Is this something that happens commonly when moving old fridges? Is there an easy fix? Is it probably something obvious? Should I call a repair guy? HELP! Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:10:05 -6 From: "Dave Draper" <ddraper at utdallas.edu> Subject: CO2 supersaturation? Dear Friends, We've seen several posts lately discussing the possibility that fermenting beer might become supersaturated with CO2. I find this impossible to believe. Just about all our beers are in fermenters that have airlocks on them, right? CO2 evolved inside the fermenter is allowed to escape through the airlock, right? So how on Earth could the beer become supersaturated? Fermentation does not proceed so rapidly that CO2 evolved has no place to go but into the liquid-- it bubbles right up through the beer and out of the airlock. The beer could become supersaturated if the CO2 were kept in the system, for example in a sealed keg; but if there is an airlock this will not happen. No supersaturation = no excess CO2 to be toxic. Am I missing something here? Cheers, Dave in Dallas - --- ***************************************************************************** Dave Draper, Dept Geosciences, U. Texas at Dallas, Richardson TX 75083 ddraper at utdallas.edu Home page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper Beer page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper/beer.html Why am I typing when I could be brewing? ---Gary Bell Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:37:41 -6 From: "Dave Draper" <ddraper at utdallas.edu> Subject: Belgian water profiles now available Dear Friends, Several days ago I received email from Jacques Bertens, who is a Dutch-speaking brewer living in Belgium (I think!!). Jacques attended a course in professional beer sampling given by the Brewing Research Department of the university of Leuven (Belgium), and as part of the lesson on water, obtained a list of water profiles for ten Belgian brewing cities and towns. In his email to me, Jacques very kindly sent me these profiles to add to my list on my web pages. These are now in place, and interested readers should have a look (Beer page URL below, follow your nose to the section on water). Anyone out there who has links to this on their own page(s) should also check it out-- the format is the same but you may wish to modify the link's description somewhat. In the meantime, here is the new information, for you instant-gratification and non-webbed types out there. I hope this stuff comes through with formatting intact... Belgian towns: Ca++ CO3-- Cl- Mg++ Na+ SO4-- Antwerp 90 76 57 11 37 84 Poperinge 8 528 206 2 380 124 Eeklo 138 255 65 28 115 8 Luik 98 134 142 14 110 14 Brugge 132 326 38 13 20 99 Gent 114 301 38 17 18 84 Willebroek/Rumst 68 143 60 8 33 70 Mechelen 116 330 36 14 16 62 Beerse 41 91 26 8 16 62 Brussels region 100 250 41 11 18 70 Here's some info on the breweries located in these towns: Antwerp De Koninck Popering St. Sixtus, Van Eecke; Belgian hopgrowing region Eeklo Bios (western Belgium) Luik (Eastern Belgium) Willebroek/Rumst Moortgat, makers of Duvel; Palm Mechelen Het Anker, makers of Gouden Carolus Beerse Westmalle All others are from western, northwestern, or central Belgium. Note the large variations in water composition over this comparatively small region. Surely this is one part of the ways that Belgian beers are so distinctive. I hope you will all join me in thanking Jacques for this excellent contribution to online beer knowledge. Brewers of Belgian styles rejoice! Cheers, Dave in Dallas - --- ***************************************************************************** Dave Draper, Dept Geosciences, U. Texas at Dallas, Richardson TX 75083 ddraper at utdallas.edu Home page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper Beer page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper/beer.html ...we are usually at the mercy of gravity. ---A.J. deLange Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:48:39 -0700 From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro) Subject: RE: Filtered beer taste / Really long mashing Hi all, Ian Smith asks about filtering beer to achieve a cleaner, more commercial taste. Depending on what is "unclean" tasting about your beers, filtering may or may not help, and there is always a way to achieve the same effect without filtration. If your beers taste yeasty, filtration can help by removing suspended yeast. If the yeast has autolyzed, the flavor will remain. In fact, I can't think of any other off-flavors that would be removed by filtration. Brewers of clean-tasting beers don't filter out bad flavors; they avoid them in the first place by tightly controlling parameters that affect flavor (yeast quality, pitching and fermentation temperatures, wort aeration, etc.). What is it about your beers that is off? More detail might provide the collective with enough info to help you solve your problem without resorting to the expense and added process of filtration. ----------------------------- Someone whose name was unclear (they didn't sign the post, I think, or I just missed it) asked about the consequences of letting the mash sit for days. In a word: SOUR. Even at refrigerator temps, the mash will sour. I once brewed a rye beer over several days, storing the unboiled wort in the fridge for 3 days. It soured, but I finished the batch anyway. It did become a great beer, actually! The sourness wasn't overwhelming, and really added depth to the palate. It may be salvageable, but your mileage may vary radically from mine! Good luck! Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:24:24 -0700 From: David Johnson <dmjalj at inwave.com> Subject: Hop rhizomes and a missed opportunity Ken Schwartz has missed an opportunity that doesn't come along every day. Here in Wisconsin, any soil left unattended for even a few hours is almost immediately covered with weeds. This leeds me to suspect that there may be something wrong with the El Paso soil. I think there is some Mutagenic agent that supresses weeds and caused the hop rhizomes to mutate into this apparent bullfrog. Instead of tossing the mutated hop rhizome over the wall, it should have gone into his wort. This could have made a really "hoppy" ale or a "Bad Frog" clone.(pause for groans) no self control or self respect Dave Johnson Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:37:02 -0400 From: "Adam Rich" <ar at crocus.medicine.rochester.edu> Subject: Alcohol and the Brain: Recent Findings HBD Readers: Here is a short article posted by the NY Times on June 10, 1997. Science Watch: Alcohol and the Brain It is a known scientific fact -- or so the public has been led to believe - -- that alcohol kills brain cells. And presumably, those who would suffer this damage the most would be drinkers in their 70s and 80s who had been at it for decades. But a new Australian study of 209 elderly men, 178 of whom used alcohol, revealed not a single sign of intellectual impairment or brain atrophy that could be related to the amount of alcohol they regularly consumed. The findings are described in the current issue of The British Medical Journal by a sociologist at the Australian National University at Canberra and his collaborators in Sydney. The men, all of whom had fought in World War II with the Australian army, represented a broad range of alcohol intake: from none to an amount that would warrant the label of alcoholism. In fact, 40 percent of the men consumed alcohol in amounts deemed hazardous or downright harmful, a much higher percentage than has been found among the Australian population as a whole. Nine years after their usual alcohol intake was recorded in 1982, the men submitted to 18 neuropsychological tests that measured a range of intellectual functions, including basic intelligence, memory and the ability to retain verbal and visual information. The participants also underwent a computerized X-ray scan of their brains. The researchers found no evidence to link heavy alcohol intake with any form of cognitive decline or with atrophy of the brain regions involved in cognitive functions. Adam's New Address: Lab: Department of Physiology and Biophysics Mayo Foundation 200 First St. SW Rochester, MN 55905 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:46:43 -0700 From: "Fritz, Kent" <Kent.Fritz at Aspect.com> Subject: RIMS RFC Dear Fellow Brewheads: In my quest to upgrade my brewing system from 5 to 15+ gallons, I just picked up a big pot at the flea market. New condition, approximately 27.5 gallon capacity, 4435 (if I recall correctly, 44 something) stainless, no seams, with a lid that seals with a locking band (possible fermenter?) for $100. Was this a good deal or did I get ripped? On to my proposed RIMS. Most of these ideas were stolen by reading all the wonderful RIMS web pages, but I don't recall seeing anyone use a chest style cooler for the mash tun. I intend to use a 70 qt chest cooler with a slotted copper pipe manifold. On the output, I will put a T with a clear tube sticking straight up to the top of the chest and open to the air (explanation in next paragraph.) After the T, a pump (model TBD) will push the wort through a copper coil immersed in the hot water tank and back to some sort of distribution manifold at the top of the chest. Temperature steps, mashout, etc., will be accomplished by controlling the temperature of the sparge water in the HWT. I will control the ouput of the pump with a ball valve so that the level of wort in the clear tube stays level. This assures that the wort is free-flowing through the manifold, not being sucked. I saw this somewhere, but I can't remember where! Questions: 1. Is the geometry of a chest cooler suitable for RIMS? 2. Is the T-Thingy a good idea? 3. Suggestions? Comments? Private e-mail OK. I'll post a summary if I receive some important feedback. Thanks. Kent Fritz Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:24:40 -0500 (CDT) From: korz at xnet.com Subject: Re: tartness Chas writes: >HONEY and FRUIT >Several (well informed) opinions on fruit beer seemed to warn against using >honey in a fruit style beer. From my experience, I would disagree with them. >First, honey does tend to dry a beer out a bit, but if you stick to orange >blossom or wildflower honey, I find there is a residual sweetness and "honey >flavor" that is an excellent complement to a fruit. Also, the drying effect >of the honey supports a stronger fruit flavor in the beer vis a vis malt, >which would tend to mask the fruit. I must disagree most strongly. Recall that we are making fruit *beer*, not wine. If you don't want malt flavour in there, then remove the malt and make fruit wine. I feel that one of the most misunderstood styles is fruit beers. Far too many are made by brewers who are trying to imitate terrible commercial beers that taste like seltzer with artificial fruit flavour in them or carbonated cough syrup. Yuck! Fruit beers should be balanced between beer and fruit flavours. There should still be some beer character behind the fruit. I feel that suggesting one lighten the malt flavour in a fruit beer is bad advice. >For similar reasons, I advocate the use >of flaked corn or rice in a fruit beer, as it will give a brilliant white >long-lasting head to your fruity-colored beer. The visual effect of a >strawberry colored or raspberry colored beer against a brilliant white head is >most pleasing (OK, lets keep the comments clear here guys!). I have not used flaked corn or rice, but judging from their relatively low protein content, I believe that they would only reduce the head retention and not improve it. Flaked barley, flaked oats, yes... these are high in beta-glucans which can make laeutering a pain, but do make for long-lasting foam stands. Do flaked corn and rice really aid in head retention? I'm planning a few experiments with them in the next few months, but I'd like some more comments on whether they really do or not... Again, there's no doubt that corn and rice lighten the beer and reduce malt character, so my previous comments about making the beverage taste too much like fruit wine (regardless of what Miller's ads are trying to sell us) apply similarly. I hope this doesn't sound too mean... I wrote it rather in a hurry and Chas certainly can prefer fruit beers with less malt character, no problem. In general, however, I think it's a common misunderstanding. Those of you in the Baltimore area are blessed with Brimstone Brewing Company, makers (in my opinion) of the finest fruit beer. It's a wheat beer (I believe) made with real blueberries and is the perfect blend of beer and fruit flavour. Few commercial beers come even close (in my opinion). Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:29:48 -0700 From: hugh at see.sig.net Subject: Practical aspects of microbrewing - workshop/ CO2 toxicity This is of more relevance to commercial brewers but as I haven't seen this mentioned here, I refer you to http://www.simhq.org/97workshops.html for info. on the above mentioned workshop organized by the Society for Industrial Microbiology (personal connection - member). It's in Reno, Nevada on August 3rd. ($350 for non-members). - -- re: CO2 'toxicity' If this exists as described here and in Brew. Techniques, here are some more thoughts. It's possible that CO2 toxicity (or inhibition of growth) may be more relevant at the homebrew scale than at larger scales, due to the lower level of fluid movement at the 5-10 gal scale. Fluid motion in large fermenters is significant and might be vigorous enough to keep dissolved CO2 levels down. Perhaps that's why none of us can find anything in our beer books about CO2 inhibition, it's not a problem for the big boys. OTOH, lager has been brewed under (CO2) pressure at industrial and homebrew scales and I note further that dissolved CO2 levels are higher at low lagering temperatures. Furthermore, bottle carbonation requires the yeast to grow at relatively high pressures/CO2 levels. Probably there's a strain dependent effect present. OT3H, CO2 production during fermentation can produce a pH change which could shock the yeast into growing slowly, especially underpitched, unhappy yeast. Perhaps that's the effect we need to avoid. Hugh in Ft. Collins, CO. - -- hugh at lamar dot colostate dot edu *(Pls. send brew name suggestions for an amber ale * * being brewed for a friend's post-pregnancy binge).* Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:05:49 -0500 From: Jim Wallace <jwallace at crocker.com> Subject: Where can I find Weissen glassware I am looking for a source of beer glassware. Especially Weissen and Belgian style glasses.I am down to my last weihenstephan glass and have a new batch in the fermenter. ___________________________________________ JIM WALLACE ... jwallace at crocker.com I travel to the wild places of this planet and would like to share what I see.... ...http://www.crocker.com/~jwallace ___________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:08:21 -0500 (CDT) From: korz at xnet.com Subject: Aromatic versus Special B/pressed yeast/lagering Since the HBD is not overwhelmed with posts, I'll take this opportunity to touch on a few subjects that I had held-off on posting (although I may have written to the actual poster directly). Charley writes: >I have a recipe that calls for Belgian Aromatic. I went to buy some and the >homebrew shop owner said that it's the same as Special-B and sold me some. > >Yesterday I talked with a guy that's got a Porter recipe that calls for >Belgian Aromatic and he says that maybe next time he's going to use >Special-B INSTEAD! They are most certainly NOT the same thing. Aromatic is a dark Munich-type malt and requires mashing (although it will convert itself, i.e. it doesn't need other malts for enzymes). Special B is a sort of blend of very dark crystal malts. I've seen some lots at 225 Lovibond! Usually, it's around 120L or so. It does not have to be mashed. It lends a nice raisiny flavour to your beer (can't make Chimay Grand Reserve without it!) and in excess (no more than 1/2# in a pale to amber beer and no more than 1# in even a big, dark beer) will be sickeningly sweet. The really dark lot also had a slight burnt flavour which got annoying when too much was used. >BTW - my recipe is for a marzen, does the Special-B make sense here? Its >only 3/4 pound most of the rest is Vienna. I would say no... 1/4# at the most and you'll get a rather fruity (raisiny) Maerzen at that. *** Alex writes: >sometimes. But as homebrewers, we often like to brew a variety of styles >with a variety of yeasts, and we haven't really solved the problem of >storing large quantities of pitchable yeast for extended periods for use >in future brews. In the spirit of George's post, I think this would be one >of the most useful solutions we could devise. > >In my readings so far, the only place I have seen this issue addressed is >in New Brewing Lager Beer, wherein Greg Noonan briefly describes a >procedure on page 98 which apparently allows a mass of pitchable yeast to >be stored in the freezer for several months in viable condition. I read >this with some interest, but it is unclear to me whether this technique >can feasibly be adapted to a homebrew environment, and exactly how it >could be accomplished. Noonan's technique of pressing most of the liquid out of a yeast slurry and storing it in the freezer is problematic, at best. Firstly, unless stored under glycerine (or I believe I've seen sucrose mentioned), much (most?) of the yeast would burst during freezing. Secondly, I can't imagine a sanitary way to squeeze most of the liquid from two liters of yeast slurry (hmmm... what's the biggest cardiac syringe you can get?). Finally, let's say you stored it in a half-filled Tupperware container. It seems to me that the cold would draw a great deal of moisture out of the slurry (until the liquid froze). Wouldn't this kill a lot of the yeast? What about storing the yeast under a solution of malto-dextrin in the fridge? It seems to me that would keep for a month... no? *** Tim writes: >I believe this question was recently asked, but I missed any responses if >they were posted to HBD. In the small batches involved in homebrewing (in >my case, 5 gallons), can secondary fermentation just take place in the >bottle? What is different about keeping the beer in a secondary fermenter >versus lagering in a bottle, besides the addition of priming sugar? >TIA for helping this newbie understand. I do some lagering in the fermenter and some in the bottle. Usually, I'll wait 2 months to bottle a lager, two or three weeks at 45-50F in a glass primary and then the rest at 40F in a glass or stainless secondary. After bottling, I let the bottles warm to cellar temperatures to carbonate, chill one, taste it, and decide if it needs more lagering. If it has excessive acetaldehyde, diacetyl, or sulphury aromas, I'll simply store them in the cellar for a few more weeks. I believe that the cold temperatures of lagering are more for precipitating polyphenol-protein complexes (chill haze) and the cold temps only slow the processes of getting rid of the unwanted compounds (acetaldehyde, diacetyl, etc.). I'll keep the secondary very cold, but I simply store the bottles (or "bottle lager") at cellar temperatures (55-60F). Comments? Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:12:10 -0500 (CDT) From: korz at xnet.com Subject: Coopers Sparkling Ale/gallons/thin Pilsner/HBD protocols/pre-boil HSA Here are a couple more... Dana writes: I just *love* the [Coopers] Sparkling Ale - it is cloudy and has a neat 'bite/tang' to the flavor, almost reminiscent of the uniqueness of the Weizen style. Can I assume (if this beer is normal and did not get funky during shipping) that this is mostly due to the yeast? Does anyone have any extract based recipes for a similar ale? I believe that the clovey character and cloudiness increases with age and fresh Coopers is less phenolic. Yes, this is due to the yeast. You need to use refined sugar to imitate Coopers Sparkling Ale... my guess would be about 15%. Use the palest extract you can find (something like Munton & Fison Extra Light Dried Malt Extract or very fresh Alexander's Pale Extract), hop to (oh, I would guess) about 25 IBUs with Pride of Ringwood, and for yeast, see below... Is Cooper's dry yeast available at US homebrew stores the same yeast? Can the yeast in the bottle be cultured and is it the fermentation yeast or a different strain just used for bottle conditioning? Cooper's dry yeast is a different beast than what's in the bottle. Yes, you can culture the yeast from the bottles. I've heard that the bottling yeast is the same as the fermentation yeast. *** Bruce writes: >2. Do US brewers use a US gallon for a "5 gallon batch" or are they talking >in Imperial gallons. Similarly, are Dave Millers gallons US or Imperial. >Something I learned only recently is that an Imperial pint is 20 ounces. Most of the HBD gallons are US. Posters from the UK and down under usually use either liters or specifically say "Imperial Gallons." A US gallon is 3.785 liters. Dave Miller's gallons are US. >3. I tasted my most recent batch of Pils against three Czech varieties. >Mine was hoppier, had a finer head, and was quite pale. The Czech beers were >a nice dark gold, but were also a bit skunky -- even the ones in brown bottles. >They also seemed to have more body. From what I've read about lack of body, >it results from sparge water with too high Ph or temperature. Since I've only >recently learned about Ph, I can only presume that my Ph was too high. But >how can that reduce body? If I've got extra tannins, shouldn't there be too >much body? How can addition lead to subtraction? Tannins will add a kind of drying, puckering, astringency to the palate of the beer and can make the beer "rough-tasting." This can interfere with the perception of body. Lack of body can come from a number of things: * not enough malt (typically, Bohemian Pilsners will be 1.048-1.052OG), * poor yield from malted barley (could be old, poorly crushed, etc.), * infection (many nasties will eat the dextrins and proteins that give beer body), * too much refined sugar (this adds no protein and thus takes away from body), and * using low-temp (122F/50C) protein rests on low-protein malts. Too hot a sparge temp or too high a pH will extract excessive tannins, but they will not directly decrease body... they may interfere with the perception of body, however. >4. As a newcomer to the HBD, I wonder about the protocols. There are lots >of questions asked with scarcely any replies. My earlier questions on yeast >received lots of private answers with even more private mailings requesting >the answers. Why don't answers go on the HBD? Is this because the questions >are deemed too elementary to answer? The other lists I'm familiar with (BBQ, >chile-heads) have a lot more answers. I tend to post most of my answers unless the HBD gets bogged-down. Then, I'll send the answers directly and post later (like now), when the HBD is less overloaded. If you ask for direct email answers (heck, even if you don't ask for them), you should summarise and post a followup. *** Graham writes: >Neil Kirk wrote re. HSA: >>So the questions are: what about HSA when running off from the mash >tun? > Does it cause oxidation? Does it matter? How do we avoid it? > >My understanding is that HSA is not a serious problem at run off >temperatures. However, I too had considered it might be and decided to >avoid the problem by attaching a long tube to the tap/spigot on the mash >tun. This tube was long enough to reach the bottom of my boiler and after >only a few seconds running off was below the level of wort now filling the >boiler. No chance of HSA now, right? But it did cause another problem. > After only a few minutes I notice that the rate of run off was slowing, >and then it stopped altogether. I had never had problems with stuck >sparges before. What had happened was that the syphon effect from the long >tube had caused the run off rate to be much higher than usual and had >resulted in the grain bed being well and truly packed (I needed a pick axe >to loosen it!!!). HSA can indeed be a serious problem at runnoff temps. According to what Charlie Scandrett posted several months ago, it can be worse than HSA post-boil. What you should have done was throttle the runoff with either a valve or a hoseclamp so it does not run so fast. >I've since abandoned this tactic and now trust that I don't get HSA. My >beer generally tastes OK but, and I ask the question seriously, if I were >getting some HSA, what would it taste like? I feel that you are trying to solve one problem by trading it for another one. A valve or hoseclamp is the way to solve both! HSA will lead to staling. It appears (from a few informal experiments I've done) to be more of a problem in amber beers than in pale or dark ones. I speculate that the amber beers suffer more than pale ones because of the higher melanoidin content and that in dark beers the dark grains tend to cover-up the damage. If you have HSA in your system, your dryhopped beers will lose their aroma after a few weeks. Your beer will also develop cardboardy/papery/sherry-like aromas after a few weeks. You can see the beer get noticeably darker when it's aerated hot. The melanoidins are said to oxidise and then later give up that oxygen to other compounds, like hop oils (there goes the hop aroma) or alcohols (cardboardy/papery aromas from certain aldehydes). I faintly recall someone suggesting that oxidation can increase diacetyl in the bottles, but I have to check my books to be sure. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:34:34 -0500 From: Rob Kienle <rkienle at interaccess.com> Subject: Valley Mill Summary Thanks to everyone who responded to my query regarding the Valley Mill. I thought I'd post a summary for those also planning such a purchase. The responses were unanimously positive. Everyone reported high mashing efficiences, good crushes without shredded husks, and ease of use. The large hopper was consistently cited as a big plus. The only negative mentioned was the use of click-stopped settings (non-infinite) for mill adjustment, although no one considered this feature to really interfere with the mill's practicality or usefulness (i.e., it works fine). I have subsequently also completed a browse through the archives and found additional information to further confirm what everyone else has reported. At about $70 less than the Malt Mill, and lacking any *quantitative* evidence to imply that its performance is equally discounted, the Valley Mill appears to be a great deal. Thanks again for all who contributed. - -- Cheers4beers, Rob Kienle Chicago, IL rkienle at interaccess.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:59:39 -0400 From: "Stephen Jordan" <komusubi at together.net> Subject: Grow your own.... Greetings all, I have been following the past few post about growing your own hops and what more info! I live in Vermont and would like to hear from fellow brewing Vermonters on their hop growing experiences. Or like type climate brewers. Thanks Stephen Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 06/11/97, by HBD2HTML version 1.2 by K.F.L.
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96