---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Still more frozen beer ("Richard Cuff")
  Adiabatic Expansions and the pop-top ("David R. Burley")
  Frozen beer: a personal account ("Moyer, Douglas E")
  Fruit Syrup - reply (Art Steinmetz)
  RE:  Phenols vs. infection / Iodophor and CP bottling (George De Piro)
  Brewing Lemonade (David Burki)
  stored yeast ("Dulisse, Brian K [PRI]")
  Dark Extract Substitution (KennyEddy)
  RE: Zima ("David Augsburger")
  Re: Real Beer Server/Service (silva)
  Malt Mills and crushing wheat (Mike Spinelli)
  first lager question/chilled bottles ("Robert DeNeefe")
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  regulator seals (CHADRECORE)
  Yeast Starters and Storage ("Capt. Marc Battreall")
  Brewbecued ribs (Jackie Gontarek)
  Re:Blue Moon Belgian Wit/Freezing Beer (Mark & Marya)


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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:12:01 -0400
From: "Richard Cuff" <rdcuff at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Still more frozen beer

In HBD #2458, Mike Uchima writes:

>In a fridge, a gas is compressed (which heats it);
>then it is circulated through the coils on the back of the fridge,
which
>cool it to near ambient (room) temperature; when the gas is
subsequently
>allowed to expand back to its original volume, it cools to
significantly
>*below* ambient temperature.

This is called the "Joule-Thompson" effect in thermodynamics and is
also why CO2 fire extinguishers blow out "snow" - the sudden cooling
upon depressurization sublimes the CO2 from gas to solid.

(working for an industrial gas company for 11 years taught me
something...)

Richard Cuff
Lutherville, MD


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:50:23 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Adiabatic Expansions and the pop-top

Brewsters:

Randy Lee and Paul Ward still insist that there are some high school
physics explanations to understand the crystallization of the water in be=
er
on opening the bottles.   I had forgotten all about adiabatic expansions
and Carnot Cycles.  Thanks for the memories but:  =


Two errors in the explanations exist

1) When the CO2 expands out of the can in an adiabatic expansion it is th=
e
GAS which is cooled ( ever so slightly) not the liquid in the can. Witnes=
s
the dry ice frost formed from opening a CO2 fire extinguisher.  The CO2
container does not cool off from the gas expansion, but rather the boilin=
g
off of the liquid in its transition from a liquid to a gas.  CO2 in the
beer is in the same phase (I.e. gas) and therefore does not have an
enthalpy of phase transition to cause cooling of the beer upon expansion =
of
the CO2 upon opening. =


2) The amount of heat loss generated by the expansion of a liter of gas
from two atmospheres to one atmosphere is vanishingly small when compared=

to the enthalpy of crystallization of water.

work done by the gas =3D  n Cv (Ta - Tb) =


n is about 0.05 moles for a liter of beer and  Cv is about 5 cal/mole*Tc.=
 =

If Ta - Tb is 1 degree then the work done is 0.025 calories per degree C
change.  The enthalpy of crystallization of water is 80 calories per gram=
=2E
So even if the temperature decrease in the gas ( don't ask me how) could
all be captured, opening a can of Bud would only produce 18( 0.025/80) =3D=
 =

or about 0.006 grams of ice if the beer was at exactly 0 degrees per degr=
ee
change in the expelled gas.  Hardly noticeable in a liter of beer!  =


It is still my opinion that the opening of the can releases the gas bubbl=
es
which triggers the supercooled (possible because of the clean bottle with=

no nucleation sites) beer or soda pop to crystallize.

Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  =

Voice e-mail OK =


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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 9:02:04 -0400
From: "Moyer, Douglas E" <moyer-de at salem.ge.com>
Subject: Frozen beer: a personal account

Folks,
	At about the time this entertaining thread began, I noticed that the 
contact on my converted chest freezer had stuck, causing three kegs to 
freeze. (Luckily, the compressor isn't damaged!) I unplugged the demonic 
device, and let the temperature rise at its own pace, with the lid 
closed. (Several days.) When it got up to about 45 degrees C, I hooked up 
all the hoses again (accidentally squirting brown ale on the carpet when 
I forgot to shut the picnic tap--oops!) I poured a pint and took a taste. 
Bleech! It was insanely sweet, syrupy, and heavily alcoholic. At first, I 
assumed that a majority of the keg was still frozen, and that I was 
drinking the non-water parts. I picked up the keg and sloshed it back & 
forth a bit and listened. It didn't sound like there was any substantial 
amount of ice (beer sounded like it was flowing freely and no "clunking" 
sounds). I assume that the beer had separated when frozen, and was still 
stratified after thawing, but I would've expected the alcohol to be 
lighter and float to the top, instead of settling to the bottom. I drew 
another pint after agitating, and it was back to "normal". Any opinions? 
IMBR? ;-)

Cheers!
Doug Moyer
Big Lick Brewing Collective
"Its in the mouth!"


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Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 19:36:32 -0400
From: Art Steinmetz <asteinm at pipeline.com>
Subject: Fruit Syrup - reply

Phil asks:

>Q3: I found a bottle of LLBean Raspberry Syrup in my pantry. Im considering
>drawing off a 2 liter of wheat and making some Raspberry Wheat.  How do I
>best accomplish this? Should I use it for Priming? If so how points would I
>need to properly prime 2 Liters? How do I figure out how to transfer SG. of
>the syrup to an amount of priming sugar? 

I recently made a Longshot Hazelnut for my wife (I detest the stuff).  The
5gal. recipe was quite vague on the quantity or source of the hazelnut
flavoring but did say to add at bottling time.  I got a 750ml bottle of
syrup used for coffee flavoring.  The nutrition info on the back gave me
the grams of sugar present which I converted to a priming sugar equivalent.
 It turned out that half the bottle provided about 230 grams of sugar which
is close (enough) to what 3/4 cup of sugar weighs (roughly and usually).
Note that I let the sugar content drive the amount of hazelnut extract I
put in.  If you keg that needn't be a concern since you can adjust CO2
content after the fact.

Now after two weeks the beer is undercarbonated and too sweet but othwise
pretty much on target for hazelnut flavor and a good approximation of the
store bought product.  The beer was in the secondary a long time which may
have let too much yeast floc out.  I did keg this so I may add some more
yeast and see if that gets things going to dry up and carbonate it.

- -- Art
asteinm at pipeline.com

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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:29:02 -0700
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Subject: RE:  Phenols vs. infection / Iodophor and CP bottling

     Hi all,
     
     Jeremy asks what the difference is between phenols and infection in 
     beer.  The two are actually closely related.  Phenols are usually 
     caused by infection.  Some yeast strains, including wild yeasts and 
     some desirable brewing strains, produce phenolic compounds.  These can 
     range from phenols that taste and smell pleasantly clove-like to ones 
     that taste/smell like band-aids.  Other phenols are smoky, medicinal, 
     etc.  They really are quite varied in how they are perceived in beer.
     
     They are not desired in most beer styles, and some, such as 
     medicinally band-aids, are not really ever desirable.  If you truly do 
     have phenol problems, it is best to review your sanitation practices.  
     Also, chlorine in your water supply can form chlorophenols in beer, 
     which I believe are usually perceived as being medicinal.
     ------------------------------------
     Rob asks about sanitation procedures for counter-pressure (CP) 
     bottling.  Let me start by saying that the practice of not allowing 
     iodophor to air dry is somewhat dubious.  Maybe some people can't 
     taste it, but the stuff is damn awful to me, and others, I'm sure.  It 
     is not meant to be consumed.  If you are paranoid about letting 
     equipment air-dry (like me), simply rinse with boiled water.  A triple 
     rinse using just a pint or two each time will take care of a 5 gallon 
     keg.
     
     As for sanitizing CP bottling equipment and bottles, I find that it is 
     usually unnecessary!  I often bottle only what will be consumed in the 
     immediate future, so I just make sure that everything is clean, but 
     not sanitized.  I've had beers keep well for over 2 weeks in this way 
     (refrigerated).
     
     I have had good experience heat sanitizing bottles in the oven (damn 
     those microfractures).  I don't find it necessary to chill the bottles 
     below room temperature, but it is good to have the beer be as cold as 
     possible.  Others may have different experience, depending on 
     equipment and carbonation levels, etc.
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:45:06 -0500
From: David Burki <davidb at pdainc.com>
Subject: Brewing Lemonade

Dave Whitman wrote:
>>
Wasn't there a recent thread about brewing lemon flavored beers? Folks
experimenting with this should probably watch out for premature
flocculation, and rousing the yeast if necessary to get complete
fermentation.  
<<
I am planning to try the Three Dogs recipe this weekend.  Why do I need to
watch out for premature flocculation?  Would I be smart to rouse the yeast
say on day 2 or 3 then again on day 5 or 6?  Anybody tried this before?

Here's the recipe repeated (converted to US measure).

Three Dogs Alcoholic Lemonade

Ingredients
2.25 pounds rough lemons
4.5 pounds Meyer lemons
2.25 pounds Dextrose
1 sachet ale dry yeast

Method

1 Grate zest (rind) off a few of the lemons. Do not grate the white pith.
2 Chop up all the lemons into chunks.
3 Cover the lemons and zest with dextrose and a few quarts of water.
4 Bring to the boil and simmer for 10 minutes.
5 Dilute to 5 gallons in your fermenter, and pitch yeast at below 85 deg. F.
6 Ferment out at 68-77 deg. F for 7-10 days or until fermentation is complete.
7 Bottle and prime as for beer.  Wait 14 days for carbonation and enjoy.

Note:
Meyer lemons are sweeter lemons. Use them if available but 61/2 pounds of 
whatever lemons you can find will work just as nicely.  Don't worry, 
relax and enjoy a Three Dogs!

David
davidb at pdainc.com


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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:20:47 -0400
From: "Dulisse, Brian K [PRI]" <BDulisse at prius.jnj.com>
Subject: stored yeast

a while back there was a bit of discussion on whether it is 
possible/practical/desirable to use yeast that had been stored for 
long periods in the refrigerator.  one data point i've waited to share 
until i had some taste impressions . . .

last september, i brewed a wheat beer (wyeast 3068) in order to build 
up a large quantity of yeast to pitch into a weizenbock.  got a late 
start on the wiezenbock, didn't brew until the end of october or so. 
 weizenbock was fine.

i skimmed yeast from the surface during the first 3 days of ferment in 
open plastic, racked to carboy, and collected the settled yeast after 
bottling.  all yeast went into mason jars, and into the door of our 
refrigerator, where it (they?) sat until around the end of april, when 
i finally got around to brewing another wheat beer.  i took the yeast 
out of the refrigerator and poured the liquid off the top the night 
before, to allow the yeast to warm up.  next day, took a cup or two of 
first runnings, boiled them, cooled and diluted to (very) 
approximately 1.040, dumped the wort and the yeast into a kitchenaid 
mixing bowl, aerated via aquarium pump.  by the time the boil finished 
and the wort was chilled, the starter was threatening to overflow onto 
the counter.  pitched starter, activity shortly thereafter, impressive 
fermentation.

from which i would conclude that long term storage does not 
necessarily doom the yeast.

making precise taste comparisons would be impossible, but the beer 
tastes fine.  it took this batch longer to round into shape than i 
recall the batch taking last fall, but i would guess the most likely 
reason for that is that the fall beer was stored at a lower 
temperature (the garage was much cooler then than the house is now); 
warner notes that wheat beers need a good period of cold conditioning. 
 as is the case with other wheat beers i've made, the taste is 
noticeably better after a bottle has spent two weeks in the fridge . . 
 .

other yeasts may behave differently.  i have stored the chico yeast 
for over four months with no problems as well . . .  ymmv.

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:38:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: KennyEddy at aol.com
Subject: Dark Extract Substitution

Richard Cuff asked about substituting light malt extract plus roasted grain
for dark malt extract.

To provide a quick direct answer, you can substitute 1 lb light extract plus
about 3 - 4 ounces of roasted malt for each pound of dark malt extract.  This
will match the color contribution pretty closely.

However, that's where the similarity will likely end.  Why is the dark
extract dark?  Was it brewed with roasted grains?  Which roasted grains?
 Chocloate?  Black patent?  Maybe some dark crystal malt?  Or is it just
colored with caramel coloring?  This is the "danger" in using "amber" and
"dark" extracts -- you really don't know what's in them, and if you're
looking for the roast character of a porter or stout, it's possible you won't
get any from dark extract.

Moral of the story -- use good-quality light extract and obtain color and
character from specialty grains whenever possible.  Remember that an
all-grain recipe typically uses a pale malt base and adds these specialty
grains, so why not emulate the process when extract brewing by using pale
extract plus specialty grains?

Of course, there are issues to contend with when using specialty grains,
since steeping certain kinds of grains will only result in starchy wort.
 Roasted and crystal malts can be simply steeped without worry.  Munich and
aromatic malt contain sufficient enzymes to convert themselves, but may not
convert additional grains.  Other malts like biscuit need other sources of
enzymes to break down the starch.  Yeast can't metabolize starch, but
bacteria can, so you're asking for trouble if you're not careful.  Adding a
quantity of wheat malt or six-row malt to the steeping grains in a fairly
thick mash (thick compared to steeping -- no more than 2 qt water per pound
of grain) adds enzymes which will break down any starches.  The thicker mix
will allow better enzyme access than a thinner ratio would.  Both of these
malt varieties are rich in enzymes and will convert themselves with plenty to
spare for additional grains.  Try an amount equal to the amount of the rest
of the grains (50% wheat, 50% other).  While this may be bordering on
partial-mashing, you can use your regular specialty-grain technique and
achieve adequate success.

Amylase enzyme powder is often available at HB shops; whether this offers a
usable alternate solution to adding extra enzymatic grain (wheat or six-row),
I don't know.  Follow whatever directions appear on the label if you want to
try it.

It's arguably better to heat your water to about 170F, then add the grains
and hold for 30 - 90 minutes, as opposed to adding the grain to cold water
and heating.  Most efficient enzyme activity will occur in a fairly narrow
temperature range; aim for 150F to 160F.

I have an article about converting all-grain recipes to extract on my web
page (see below).  It gives some specific ideas on making your extract beers
the best they can be by emulating the all-grain process as closely as
possible.

*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
KennyEddy at aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy


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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:53:00 -0400
From: "David Augsburger" <daugsbur at monroe.lib.mi.us>
Subject: RE: Zima

Even though Zima Is the ultimate in sacrificing a Homebrew, I have read an
article on how it is made a couple of years ago.

First brew up a simple beer, the way you normally would.  Formulate it to
the amount of alcohol you want.  Then filter the hell out of it.  Use the
smallest micron filter you can find and a carbon filter.  This sould give
you a tasteless clear "Malt Beverage".  You get the flavor by adding you
own lemon and lime flavors.  

This is how the article explained it.  It may not be completely accurate,
but I'd bet its close.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 -
Give a man a beer and he wastes an hour... 
Teach him to brew and he wastes a lifetime. 

David Augsburger
daugsbur at monroe.lib.mi.us


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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:43:00 -0700
From: silva <silva at realbeer.com>
Subject: Re: Real Beer Server/Service

>Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 08:08:18 -0700
>From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at .azcc.arizona.edu>
>Subject: realbeer server
>
>> From: "Robert Marshall"
>> Subject: The Brewery now at realbeer.com??
>>
>> Have I been in a time warp, or something? I went to
>> alpha.rollanet.org, got the form with all the link buttons, but
>> everytime I follow it, it tells me that page has moved to
>> realbeer.com/...
>>
>> When did this happen? It seems that only a couple of weeks ago the
>> links were there at alpa.rollanet.org. If it did change, why didn't
>> they change the map too?
>>
>And you noticed how bad the realbeer server and connection is?  I bet at
>least 3-4 times a month the thing is impossilbe to get to.  What gives?
>So now we move all our resources on to one overworked inaccesible
>server?  duh!
>
>Jim

Hi, Jim,

We saw your posting on the HBD and wanted to respond to you and all users
about your concern.

First, Real Beer offered to host The Brewery gratis as part of our
commitment to keeping great work live on the Web. We have our own full-time
techincal support, T-1 connection and a couple of servers with ample drive
space and are committed to making it available to quality beer information
for our fellow brewers and enthusiasts.

Karl and Mark have been handling the transition of The Brewery over to our
server in the after hours of their real jobs, so it's going to take some
time. They are responsible for all aspects of the transition, including
those areas that are currently linking over to Brewery content served at
Real Beer. Again, these guys are doing this as an avocation, so some slack
and understanding should be given.

In terms of the Real Beer server, we've enjoyed 99.9% uptime over the last
three years thanks to some pretty heroic efforts, including times when my
partner has pulled all-nighters and brought a cot in to sleep next to the
server and ensure its uptime. Each one of us take turns brining the pager
home that alerts us around the clock if the server goes down. We've moved
our mail service including RBPMail which goes out to 50,000+ subscribers
each month over to a new server to avoid slow-downs on our Web server. We
are only serving beer information from our server, so the server will not
be bogged down with unnecessary ISP-type traffic from junkmail, girlie pics
or mars visits. At peak usage we're only using about 1/5 of our T-1
bandwidth, 1/2 of our drive space and, as Karl mentioned in his response on
the subject, have CPU overhead available except in *very* rare moments to
address your AND our concerns about realbeer.com becoming "one overworked
inaccesible server." As our traffic and needs grow, we will add more
servers and bandwidth to continually evolve our service to address reliable
content service for our audience. And, we're providing 24/7 support to the
network so that when crashes (enevitably) occur, the reboot and trouble
shooting happen instantly and service loss is minimized. At Real Beer we
feel we're doing everything humanly (and computerly) possible to deliver
optimal uptime.

If you've worked with technology enough, you also understand that the
technology spirits will strike at the most critical time or need for
information (a case in point is that my original email to you on the
subject bounced back from your service provider due to difficulties with
your address). We've dealt with hackers in the past as have larger service
providers with ten-times the resources we have such as AOL, MSN, Panix,
etc. We've had some sporadic interruption in service in the last couple of
days due to server upgrades and we apologize for the inconvenience.
Ultimately, we feel the server and service will be vastly enhanced in the
long run thanks to these upgrades.

Feel free to call us or email us directly with any future or current
concerns. We would be happy to address them. Ultimately, we're interested
in building a service that serves us all as homebrewers and enthusiasts. We
also love to hear the good stuff that you like too.

Please bear with us when you run into service issues. If they are related
to our service and not just to internet traffic you can be assured that we
are pulling all the stops to fix it.

Sincerely,

Mark Silva
Publisher, CEO
Real Beer, Inc.

Publishers of:                                Real Beer Inc.
The Real Beer Page                        2339 Third Street, Suite 23
http://www.realbeer.com             S.F., CA 94107
The ProBrewer Page                      415.522.1516 - voice
http://www.probrewer.com          415.522.1535 - fax
BEERWeek                                      realbeer at realbeer.com
http://www.beerweek.com           Internet Publishers &
RBPMail                                                        Consultants
rbpmail-request@ realbeer.com



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Date: Wed, 09 Jul 97 16:37:09 est
From: paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)
Subject: Malt Mills and crushing wheat

HBDers,
Do those of you w/ adjustable MMs change the roller gap when crushing wheat
malt?

I've never changed the factory gap and am wondering if I SHOULD be adjusting it
when crushing wheat.

Also, has anyone found that a more ideal "all around" gap exists other than the
one set by the factory ?

Thanks
Mike Spinelli
Cherry Hill NJ


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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 18:12:26 -0500
From: "Robert DeNeefe" <rdeneefe at compassnet.com>
Subject: first lager question/chilled bottles

My first lager, a Vienna, is happily fermenting at about 48-50F as I write
this.  Unfortunately, it sat at about 58F for a few too many days as I was
unaware how far my temperature controller was off from its markings (I
checked it a couple months ago and it seemed fine *shrug*).  Anyway, I
suspect it'll survive the elevated temperatures, especially since I was
aiming for a Southwestern-style Vienna with lots of dark malts, but now I'm
not sure how to proceed.  The krausen has fallen completely but the airlock
is still bubbling away every 10-20 seconds.  It's been in the fermenter 9
days now. Do most of you lager brewers use a secondary, or do you transfer
directly to your lagering vessel (for me, a corny) after fermentation has
almost stopped?  I'd like to skip the secondary, but I don't want to end up
with a bunch of junk in my corny, which I will serve from after lagering. 
I plan to lager for about 2 months, which should bring me right up to the
birth of my daughter.  Any advice is appreciated.

Rob Kienle asked about chilling bottles when using a CPF.  I've only used
my CPF once, but since I was only bottling a few bottles I decided to go
all out and chill them.  After sanitizing them, I wrapped each mouth with a
small piece of sanitized aliminum foil.  This should have kept any nasties
out.  I don't know if chilling is really all that neccessary, but if you
want to chill, a bit of aluminum foil should curtail any fears about bugs.

 Robert
 Sugar Land, TX



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Date: Wed, 09 Jul 97 16:57:03 PDT
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at kansas.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report

		The Jethro Gump Report
>From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
> However,  I suggest we all use a little restraint and perhaps
> "in my opinion" or similar comment  when offering speculative
> explanations for  physio-chemical phenomena.
> Even though you are sure you are absolutely correct.
>My opinions and comments follow:

	Aw, Gee, Dave...........               ;-(

>Adam Dreyer's explanation of phase diagrams,   -SNIP-
>may have been a result of  spending too much time thinking and not >enough
time drinking.....

>Sorry, but Ken Shramm's explanation while =
> It is really very imaginative, shows he took Chemistry and Physics,
> but it is absolutely incorrect.

	Now, Dave, do I smell condescension? That's not like you! ;-)
No, I guess it's just the assistant brewer's socks!

>Remember these are my opinions.

	And these are mine.

>From: SCRIT at aol.com
>Subject: Removing Corona Painted labels
>I have a couple of cases of  Corona  7 oz bottles  I want to use for
bottling
>a Barley wine.    Does anyone know how to remove the painted Corona
>labels from the bottle. 

	I did like the "Corona B-W" suggestion, but the stuff is fired on, just
like the labels on my growler jugs. They are there to stay. Bead blasting
is probably the only way to remove them.

>Bill Marks <bill_marks at ids.net> said:
> I, like everybody else who has ever used the stuff, have had my plastic
> tubing stained by iodophor.

	I presume (remember, my opinion) that the iodophor stains would have some,
perhaps only marginal bacteriostatic activity. But to get rid of the
stains, try PBW. The gaskets used here are white silicone, and after being
soaked in Iodophor are similarly stained. Right after I pitch my yeast, I
prepare a PBW bath to soak everything in overnight, so they are ready to
rinse, and reuse the next day.  By that time they have returned to their
previous brilliant white color.

>From: RANDY ERICKSON <RANDYE at mid.org>
>Subject: Report on FiveStar Products Trial
>In summary, I was very impressed with these products and would buy
>them if they are ever made available to us at a reasonable price.  As
>was reported here before, that PBW is great stuff!

	Agreed, but don't forget the other features. It can be used on aluminum,
and other soft metals, as well as stainless and glass. Caustic, the most
widely used brewery cleaning agent, will eat aluminum for lunch. It is a
low foaming agent above 100 F, which works well in Clean in Place systems.
True CIP in a commercial setting takes the liquid agent from the bottom of
a vessel being cleaned, or from a dedicated CIP storage vessel and
recirculates it to the top of the vessel, through a CIP head, which then
blasts it to the interior walls, where it flows down to the bottom of the
tank,  and is recirculated again. Randy's usage is more of a soak in place
(new acronym ? SIP?) Try running , like I did, a high foamer like TEXO's
Acidisan through a CIP, and you will appreciate the low foaming feature.
	PBW rinses easily, and while it is only really active for an hour or so,
when it is exhausted it has a pH around 9, which is more eco-friendly to
municipal H2O plants.
	Causitc is often used at temps around 175, and PBW works well at 100 to
150, so there is a safety margin should a mishap occur.
	It will be the only cleaner of it's type ever used by myself, here or in
any other brewery I work in. It's R.G.S.!
	Oh, yes, 5 Star's customer service is outstanding. (Insert
disclaimer--Just a satisfied customer.)

>From: "Randy J. Lee"<rjlee at imation.com>
>Subject: Opening Frozen beer
>BTW: There is a common misconception that Ice beers are somehow >frozen to
make them more potent. To do that would be a distillation >process;
something the ATF seriously frowns on from a brewer (can't have >brewers
and distillers in the same building). Ice beers are indeed frozen >slightly
forming ice crystals at the available nucleation sites of some protein
>sets, thus precipitating them out. The beer is then warmed up and filtered,
>thus removing these other substances. This provides for a smoother brew,
>or so they say. That they are higher in alcohol content is purely a
marketing
>thing; they are brewed that high to start with.

	Interesting to note that the ATF requires that all 'water' removed by
freezing be relaced with an equivalent amount of water later in the
process.  I received a 'Circular' from the BATF some time ago that
'reminded' licensed brewers of this.  OTOH, most brewers of the macro-brew
orientation brew their beers to a high gravity, then water them down, as an
efficiency move. Brew one batch that will produce 4 or 5 times the finished
product, once blended with water, and the savings in tankage alone is
obvious. Blend with carbonated H2O to a greater degree, lower ETOH. Blend
to a lesser degree, higher ETOH.

>From: Rob Kienle <rkienle at interaccess.com>
>Subject: Sanitation Simplicity Pt 1: Kegs and Carboys
>1.) Is it acceptable to leave a fermenter sitting full of sanitizer
>between brewing/racking sessions, and thus simplify the brewing/racking
>by avoiding the need for a repeat sanitation procedure?

	Yes, iodophor in a sealed corny will last a long time, and for many years,
I relied on bleach in carboys. About 3 - 4 cups of bleach in a carboy of
H2O will self clean and be ready for use, post rinsing for the next batch.

>Hence, what is is the simplest way to handle bottle sanitation when
>using a CF filler? Do they need to be chilled? Or can I just do it the
>way I always have (when I used to prime instead of force-carbonate) and
>fill 'em even with a few drops of very dilute iodophor still present?

	The only CP filling I do is for comps, I sanitize with iodophor, drain by
inversion, while I shoot CO2 into the mouth of the inverted bottle from a
cobra head hooked up to a regulator, and then fill with a cobra head
filler. Any residual iodophor certainly hasn't been a problem here. I
haven't chilled my bottles, but this may be a better way to go.

Blackened Raspberry Beer-
	A lady customer recently asked for a "Black and Tan" made with raspberry
wheat beer instead of pale ale. The bartender asked if I thought it would
'float' like the regular B & T. No way, sez I, but go ahead and try it.
Well the damn thing floated! Seems the raspberry extract I use, from Cal.
Brands, is so viscous that it does provide enough 'body' to support it. Now
I really don't like the RW, but it sells so well that it provides
justification for production, but it really does a great job when paired up
with my stout.  Sort of like the well known combo of a rich chocolate
dessert served with a pint of stout, the RW/Stout combo displays flavours
previously unencountered. I'm running it as the Beer of the Day and it's
proving to be quite popular. I will even predict that it will serve as a
'training wheels'  beer that leads to more conversions of 'lighter' beer
drinkers to stout drinkers.

Weston Brewing Company Re-Opening-
	Missouri's 1st Brewery,  at Weston, right across the river from
Leavenworth, is having a re-opening party on Saturday, 7.12.97. Free
admission, tours, blues bands, food etc. starting at 3 pm. More info-
816-640-5245.

GABF Magic Bus-
	Steve Bradt, HB of Free State Brewing in Lawrence, Kansas, has organized a
bus trip to the GABF,  Travel, accomodations, entry to the fest, and a bus
trip to the mountains for 260 per person. More Info- 913-843-4555.

 .Paul -
>Of course, I don't have the faintest idea what I'm talking about.

	You and me both, brother! Maybe Dave knows?

Cheers and Beers and Never Bloody Fears!
Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"

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Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:46:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: CHADRECORE at aol.com
Subject: regulator seals

Building a kegerator, and I came upon a dual gauge set-up for oxygen.  A
friend of mine whom cleans keg systems in bars locally once said that
different types of regulator setups (for different gases) use different types
of seals.
I believe this set-up will do nicely for a Co2 setup.  I would appreciate any
comments.
thanks,
Chad

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Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 20:55:24 -0400
From: "Capt. Marc Battreall" <batman at reefnet.com>
Subject: Yeast Starters and Storage

I have a few questions regarding the handling of yeast starter cultures
and storing yeast cultures after use in a previous batch. I will try to
group them as best as I can so they make sense. FYI, I use the
procedures outlined in TNCJHB pages 275-281 for preparing yeast
starters.

First, I am step culturing a starter for a Bavarian lager using Wyeast
#2278 Czech Pilsner. I planned on stepping it as many times as necessary
to attain at least 250 ml of slurry because I plan on lagering/aging
this batch for at least 6 months after secondary fermentation is
completed.
Question #1; Is it a good idea to decant off the "spent" wort after each
step (each rise and fall of krausen) and replenish it with new sterile
wort? And if so, what is a good volume of new wort to use?
Question #2; I read somewhere that you should treat the starter culture
with the same procedures (ie ingredients, temperature, etc.) as you will
use for the actual brew itself. Is this a good procedure?

Second, I salvaged about 50 ml of healthy yeast slurry from the
secondary out of a batch of California Common I recently made in a
attempt to replicate Anchor Steam. I called it "California Steamin'".
(Catchy eh?). I used Wyeast #2112. The beer tasted great when I racked
it to a corny keg for lagering so I do not suspect any contamination.
According to Charlie Papazian, I know that collecting from the primary
is preferred, but I use the secondary because it seems that the slurry
does not have as much trub in it and it at least appears to be cleaner,
if you know what I mean. This slurry sample was still relatively active
and I added about 250 ml of fresh sterile wort to it in an Erlenmeyer
flask and topped it with an airlock. It is still active a week later. I
intend to store this in my bank at 45 F. I don't know when I will use
this yeast I know this subject has been addressed recently and at the
risk of beating a dead horse I will ask it anyway.
Question #1; What care and/or maintenance will this culture need and
should I continue to refresh the wort from time to time to keep it
healthy and propagating?
Question #2; Is it truly better to gather used yeast slurry from the
primary as opposed to the secondary and why?

I know this is lengthy but I hope it makes sense.
Thanks in advance for your help.

Marc Battreall

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Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 21:20:56 +0000
From: Jackie Gontarek <gontarek at voicenet.com>
Subject: Brewbecued ribs

Hi Everyone,

This is a re-post from last Summer...after you read it I'm sure you'll
see why I decided to repost!


 
The following is not *strictly* brewing related, but since it is 
Summertime and we are in the midst of grilling season, I thought 
that I would share with you all a fabulous recipe that I came up 
with for barbecued (excuse me, *Brew-becued) ribs. I made these last 
year at a brewbecue party, where everyone brought a sixpack of their 
favorite microbrew, and all of the food was prepared with beer as an 
essential ingredient. Let me know if you try these. 
 
BREWBECUED RIBS 
 
Purchase 4 lbs. of babyback ribs (a local butcher or a place like 
Sam's or Price Club will have these at a decent price). Prepare the 
following braising liquid: 
 
4 quarts of beer (or beefstock or a mixture of the two...I used up 
the last of a batch of light ale). 
3/4 cup cider vinegar 
1 TBSP paprika 
1 TBSP cayenne pepper 
1 1/2 TBSP ground cumin 
3 TBSP tabasco sauce 
several cloves of garlic 
1 TBSP ground ginger 
1 cup tomato paste 
1/4 cup honey 
1 TBSP salt 
several bay leaves 
 
Bring the braising liquid to a boil in a large pot. Reduce the heat 
to a simmer and add the ribs. Simmer the ribs until tender, but not 
falling apart (~1 hr 45 min). When they are done, carefully remove 
the ribs to a baking sheet. 
 
Rub the following paste all over the ribs (slather it on!!): 
1/4 cup garlic salt 
1 TBSP ground white pepper 
1/2 cup paprika 
1/4 cup dry mustard 
1/4 cup cider vinegar 
1/4 cup Worcestershire sauce 
1/2 cup beer (something nice n' hearty) 
 
Wrap the slathered ribs in foil and refrigerate (can prepare up to 3 
or 4 days in advance). 
 
When you are preparing for the feast (and oh, it will be a feast), 
get yer grill ready. NOTE: I have a Weber kettle grill, which I can 
clamp the lid on and allow the food to be cooked over indirect heat. 
Also, I have found that lump hardwood charcoal works the best. Give 
it a try if you can find it (a local hardware store or a lawn and 
garden shop will carry it), and I'm certain that you'll never go 
back to Kingsford Briquettes again! 
 
Anyway, while the coals are getting ready, soak several handfulls of 
hickory or mesquite chips in *beer* (again, something big and bold). 
**THIS IS A KEY STEP***You will be amazed at the flavor that beer 
soaked hickory chips will add. Let 'em soak for about a half hour. 
 
When the coals are ready, drain the beer-soaked hickory chips and 
place them on the fire. Put the ribs on the grill, slather them 
generously and frequently with the following brewbecue sauce, close 
down the lid, and let them go for 15-20 minutes or so, turning them 
and slathering them with sauce often until they get tender and a tad bit 
charred. Serve ribs with lots of napkins, and of course, plenty of
homebrew. 
 
BREWBECUE SAUCE 
3 TBSP canola oil 
1 med onion 
1 cup chili sauce 
1 cup ketchup 
1/4 cup steak sauce 
1 TBSP Worcestershire sauce 
several cloves freshly pressed garlic 
1/4 cup prepared horseradish 
3 TBSP dry mustard 
Cayenne pepper to taste 
2 TBSP tabasco sauce 
1 TBSP molasses 
1 TBSP cider vinegar 
2 16 oz. beers (something big again) 
Heat oil in a large pot and add garlic and chopped onion. Let 
cook for about 10 min or so, until onion becomes soft and transluscent. 
Add remaining ingredients in a saucepan over medium heat for 30 
minutes or so until it gets nice n' thick, stirring often. 
 
Sorry for the bandwidth, but I've been dying to share this recipe, 
and I know that there are a lot of you out there that will love to 
try this. 
 
Bon apetit!! 
 
Rick Gontarek 
Owner/Brewmaster of The Major Groove Picobrewery 
Trappe, PA 
Email: Richard_R_Gontarek at sbphrd.com 
 or gontarek at voicenet.com

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Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 19:06:46 -0700
From: Mark & Marya <mbolyana at slonet.org>
Subject: Re:Blue Moon Belgian Wit/Freezing Beer

I've tried Blue Moon Belgian Wheat and thought it was not true to form
for a Belgian White ale. Of course it was on tap and that might make a
difference.

On the subject of freezing beer:
Someone said it doesn't freeze in the unopened bottle because there are
no active sites to start crystallization. IMHO, this is not true because
it happens with a homebrew with sediment also. What about this: The
liquid is super-cooled because between 4C and 0C water expands. It can't
expand because of the fixed volume so the pressure rises. When the
bottle is opened, the pressure drops, causing the CO2 to cool (most
gases heat on compression, cool on expantion, al la air conditioning),
come out of solution, causing active sites for the ice to form. Just a
thought.

Don't flame me too bad, you might melt my beer!
Murdoc

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