---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Electrocardiograms (Jason Henning)
  Using Rice hulls as a filter when sparging. (Jon Bovard)
  Gravity of wort (crablesc)
  Cleaning fillers ("John Penn")
  arf, easymash, maltmill (Danny Breidenbach)
  Re: Cleaning (Eric  Tepe)
  Iodophor Stains ("Ian Wilson")
  Atom Masher Web Site Sponsorship Clarification (Michael L. Hall)
  CALMAX Apology!!! ("Hunts, Jeff")
  Ginger Beer (soda) (Aesoph, Michael)
  First/Second runnings in BW brewing; Second pitchings to BW (Dave Riedel)
  Repitching yeast from secondary (Mark Thomson)
  ATTENTION VINTERS (Brian S Kuhl)
  B & T vs H & H ("Rob Moline")
  UT/CO Travel (Wesley McDaniel)
  Hefe Weizen Question (Mark Rodziewicz)
  Corona Mill Tips ("John L. Heubel")
  re: water analysis: denied (Brian Cornelius)
  Barbeque (Rick Olivo)
  Re: Barbeque (Rick Olivo)
  Yeast Management ("Capt. Marc Battreall")
  Food for Thought ("Rob Moline")
  A brewing/beer poem... (Steve)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:21:00 -0700
From: Jason Henning <huskers at cco.net>
Subject: Electrocardiograms

Fellow brewers,

I was surfing for hb shops in my area. Found one I hadn't been to and
they have an e-mail address. Here's the e-conversation:

> >Hello-
> >
> >Do you carry whole leaf imported EKG?
> > 
[snip-my sig text]
> > 
> Sorry we do not have EKG in hops. What are they it sounds more like a
> medical question.
> 
> Good Luck Roger James 

Name was altered, I don't want to be accused of driving this dope out of
business. After visting his shop, I think he's doing that without me.

It took me about a month of reading hbd as a newbie to realize EKG was
East Kent Goldings. Shouldn't a hb shop owner know this abbrevation?
BTW, why aren't electrocardiograms called ECGs? Imported technology and
name is my guess.

Cheers,
Jason Henning (huskers at cco.net)
Big Red Alchemy and Brewing
Olympia, Washington - "It's the water"

Brew to live
Live to brew



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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:29:39 +1000
From: Jon Bovard <j.bovard at student.qut.edu.au>
Subject: Using Rice hulls as a filter when sparging.

Ive heard it whispered in the wind that when using a mash high in
proportions of raw flakes, or wheat you can use 500g (pound or so) of rice
hulls as a substitute for apparent lack of barley husks. In this way these
create a sparge filter whilst not imparting any flavour/colour or content to
the finished beer.
Has anyone used this technique and how effective is it. ie is it worth it?
effective?

Cheers
JB
"Beer more than just a breakfast drink!".. (Me)


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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:07:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: crablesc at email.uc.edu
Subject: Gravity of wort

    Is there a way to predict the post boil gravity (opening gravity)of 6.5 
gallons of preboiled wort? In other words, after your sparge and before you 
start the boil, can you take a hydrometer reading and come close to 
predicting the O.G.?
    I recently started all grain brewing and had a little problem with my 
third batch of an all grain kolsch.  I did my mash and the iodine test 
showed conversion, however, when I took the O.G. it was 32! It should have 
been around 50. If I had known before the boil, I could have supplemented 
the wort with some extract. Thank you.

Scott Crable
Cincinnati

"Too much of anything can be bad for you, but too much homebrew is just enough!"


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Date: 11 Jul 1997 09:12:04 -0400
From: "John Penn" <john_penn at spacemail.jhuapl.edu>
Subject: Cleaning fillers

                       Subject:                               Time:8:57 AM
  OFFICE MEMO          Cleaning fillers                       Date:7/11/97

  As for cleaning phils phillers or any other bottling filler...  I've also
noticed a clogging problem which I have so far been able to get rid of just by
pushing the plunger down and running hot water through the filler in the
reverse direction.  It works pretty well just to run water through the normal
way, then let go of the plunger, turn it upside down, push the plunger, and
just let the tubefull of water fall through backwards.  That used to do the
trick after a few repeats but I find holding the plunger down under the faucet
and running hot water through continuously in the reverse direction works
best.  Give it a try, hope it works for you.
   John Penn


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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:39:45 -0500
From: Danny Breidenbach <DBreidenbach at nctm.org>
Subject: arf, easymash, maltmill

With much trepidation, I ask, upon my return to reading HBD, is arf (aka
schmidling -- pardon the spelling) still around?  An old address bounced. 
I'm wanting to gather information on his products.  A simple e-mailed
reply would be appreciated.  Thanks.
- --Danny

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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:31:13 -0400
From: Eric Tepe <tepee0 at chmcc.org>
Subject: Re: Cleaning

Randy Ricchi asks about taking apart his Phil's Philler to clean it.

     I talked to Dan Listerman, who makes the philler(he runs a homebrew
shop and manufacturing plant in Cincinnati where I live), and he said that
you can't take the philler apart because it is soldered together.  If you do
have some hop trub stuck in it he said to try boiling it for 5 minutes or so
and then work the spring and rinse.  If there has always been a problem
with it sticking he stands behind his products and will either fix it or
replace it.  If you have a recent Brew Your Own magazine or Zymurgy
you can find his advertisements and call him (is local phone number is
(513-731-1130).  Of course I have no affiliation, just a satisfied
customer.

Eric R. Tepe

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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 97 08:51:13 PDT
From: "Ian Wilson" <iwilson at lightspeed.net>
Subject: Iodophor Stains

I, too, have suffered from the embarassment of iodophor stains in
my hoses and equipment. My friends were saying cruel things
about my brewery behind my back, until one day, Donn had the
courage to tell me. I didn't know what to do. I was so ashamed!

Then, while I was talking to my Daddy, he confided that he had
once had the same problem! Now, my Daddy's brewery is always
spotless. He even wears a white boiler suit when he brews, just like
some of the pros. He secret? Put the equipment outside in the
sunlight for a few days! The sunlight will magically make those
ugly iodine stains disappear. You'll be the talk of your brew
club with the cleanest looking hoses and whitest looking pails.
Everyone will like you again!

<Brought to you by the good folks at "Keep Nuclear Power
Stations in Space, Where the Damn Well Belong!">

To those of you who have not recognized the above as a
healthy dose of humor, the advice is sound, the situational
commedy is not. We now return you to the regularly
scheduled serious posts.......

Ian Wilson
iwilson at lightspeed.net


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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:45:02 -0600
From: hall at galt.c3.lanl.gov (Michael L. Hall)
Subject: Atom Masher Web Site Sponsorship Clarification

Our sponsorship statement should have read:

   Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of Livonia,
   Michigan (URL: http://www.oeonline.com) for sponsoring the Home
   Brew Digest (URL: http://hbd.org/) which is sponsoring our 
   homebrew club site.

 -Mike

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael L. Hall, Ph.D.               <hall at lanl.gov>                    |
| President, Los Alamos Atom Mashers   <http://hbd.org/users/atommash>    |
| Member, AHA Board of Advisors        <http://www.beertown.org/aha.html> |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+



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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:26:57 -0700
From: "Hunts, Jeff" <jhunts at CIWMB.ca.gov>
Subject: CALMAX Apology!!!

Fellow Brewers I beg your forgiveness.  In trying to show you the way to
new (used) equipment I have led you astray.

Two major SNAFUs yesterday.  After singing its praises, I screwed up and
left the .htm off the URL I posted for the California Materials Exchange
(CALMAX).  Thanks to all who politely pointed this out.  It should have
read:

http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov/mrt/calmax/calmax.htm

Then, after posting yesterday, I return to work this morning to the
following message:

============================
	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Web Master 
	Sent:	Friday, July 11, 1997 7:42 AM
	To:	"CIWMB" All Staff
	Subject:	CIWMB Web Site down for maintenance/upgrades

	The CIWMB's webserver (and FTP server) is down for maintenance
and upgrading.  Service should be resumed no later than 1:00pm. 
	=============================

	To all those who cleverly figured out my error and got shut out
anyway, sorry for this other inconvenience.  Please do check it out
again.  I hope you find this, and other exchanges like it, useful.

	Again, good luck and happy brewing. 
> ========
> Jeffery L. Hunts
> jhunts at ciwmb.ca.gov
> Donner Party Homebrewing
> "Goes Great With Finger-Food!"
> 
> 

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Date: 11 Jul 97 12:50:59 EDT
From: aesoph at ncemt1.ctc.com (Aesoph, Michael)
Subject: Ginger Beer (soda)

Dear Collective:



	I am looking for an "all natural ingredients," naturally carbonated, 
recipe for Ginger Beer or Ginger Ale (soda).  Thanks in advance.



===============================================

Michael D. Aesoph    	                          Mechanical Engineer

Concurrent Technologies Corp.       Phone:  (814) 269-2758

211 Industrial Park Road                    FAX:  (814) 269-4458

Johnstown, PA  15904                          EMail:  aesoph at ctc.com




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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:09:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dave Riedel <RIEDEL at ios.bc.ca>
Subject: First/Second runnings in BW brewing; Second pitchings to BW

I plan to do a barley wine next weekend.  As usual, I have some questions
about a couple of things:

1.  If I want to collect 3.5 gallons of wort at SG 1.099 using 12 lbs of
pale ale malt, what can I expect to get from the second runnings?  Note:
the mash water could provide the entire 3.5 gallons of wort w/o sparging
(4 gal less grain absorption).  That is, approximately what gravity and
volume can I get?  4 gallons of 1.035?

2.  I will be re-pitching onto the primary dregs from an IPA, so I'm
confident the initial yeast quantity will be good.  However, I plan to 
re-pitch prior to bottling (or sooner, if necessary).  Can I use a parallel
yeast harvest (say from the primary of the second runnings brew)?  Or should
I use a new package?  If the latter, with or without a starter?

thanks in advance,
Dave Riedel, Victoria, Canada 

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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:01:33 -0600
From: Mark Thomson <mthomson at mail.xula.edu>
Subject: Repitching yeast from secondary

In regards to messages concerning repitching yeast from the secondary
fermenter, I have been doing so for the past year with excellent
results.  I make dark ales and stouts and for the past year ( > 15
batches ) I have used the yeast from the previous secondary fermenter. 
This population has passed through several generations with no taste and
flavor problems.  I now need to start a new population because of a
contamination problem on my latest cream stout.  That can happen when
you do stupid things while transfering hot wort at 11:30 pm after a long
day of brewing and consuming.  I will continue to repitch from the
secondary because the trub and any spent hops have been removed with the
sediment from the primary, leaving relatively clean yeast.  Additionaly,
it works.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr. Mark Thomson        I was supposed to have been a Jesuit priest,
Department of Chemistry    or a naval academy grad.
Xavier University       That was the way that my parents perceived it,
New Orleans, Louisiana     Yes, those were the plans that they had.
mthomson at mail.xula.edu                --Jimmy Buffett
            _               _               _               _
  __   __   \\_   __   __   \\_   __   __   \\_   __   __   \\_   __
__\ \__\ \___\ \__\ \__\ \___\ \__\ \__\ \___\ \__\ \__\ \___\ \__\ \_
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 97 12:47:00 PDT
From: Brian S Kuhl <Brian_S_Kuhl at ccm.fm.intel.com>
Subject: ATTENTION VINTERS

Hello,
The blackberries are soon to be ripe again. I will be picking about 15 
pounds for some blackberry wine I plan on making. I have a couple of 
questions to you wine makers. I used blackberries in beer but never made 
wine (except that rot gut I made when I was 16). Any advice is 
appreciated for basic wine techniques, but I would like advice on 
blackberry wine if there are any particulars.
Questions:
       *Should I try the natural yeast on the berries to ferment or     
        would it be better to use, say Wyeast 1056?
       
       *If natural yeast are used, any special instructions?

       *Know any sources of small (5 gal) oak barrels?
TIA,
Brian

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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 97 14:48:53 PDT
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at kansas.net>
Subject: B & T vs H & H

Korz writes:
>I'd like to discourage everyone from using the expression "Black and Tan"
>and in stead use the term "Half and Half."  Although I'm a devout
>anglophile, I'm very much against what the "Black and Tans" did in
Ireland. 

	Wishing to remain apolitical on the HBD...nonetheless, it has been pointed
out to me that in addition to a B & T being representative of the color of
the uniforms, thence a slang term for one group of combatants, a B & T made
with Bass and Guinness is symbolic to another group of participants in the
Troubles as a indicator of dominance of the Guinness over the Bass, i.e.,
Irish over British. 
	Just another piece of breweriana related history. No offence intended.
Cheers!
Jethro
Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!" 

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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 20:03:01 -0500 (CDT)
From: Wesley McDaniel <wmcdanie at marlin.utmb.edu>
Subject: UT/CO Travel

Hello all!!  I am planning a trip to Utah and Colorada in the near 
future.  Can anyone in the group give me the lowdown on breweries in 
Moab, UT or Durango, CO?  Are there any others in the general area that 
are worth the trip?  TIA.

 JUST BREW IT, BABY!!!!!!!! 

- -----------------------------------------------------------------
   Wesley McDaniel              wesley.mcdaniel at utmb.edu
      University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston
- -----------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 21:56:56 -0500
From: Mark Rodziewicz <markrodz at wwa.com>
Subject: Hefe Weizen Question

I've just racked my current batch of brew (a traditional hefe weizen) to
the secondary after four days.  It went from a 1.053 to 1.023 in this
time.  However, upon tasting it, it doesn't seem to have any of the
characterisitics of a true hefe.  I used the Wyeast Weihenstephan (sp?)
# 3068.  It has fermented anywhere between 66 and 70 degrees F.  Can
anybody describe what it should taste, smell and look like at this
point.  I'm worried that this may be another "drainer".  Thanks.....

Mark R.

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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 10:24:17 -0500
From: "John L. Heubel" <jlheubel at wf.net>
Subject: Corona Mill Tips

Brewing Collective,

I confess, I still use the good old Corona mill for my crush.  It's
economical -- the price of a health club membership to get the workout you
get with a Corona would be hundreds more than a roller mill ;o), and I'm
too lazy to purchase a roller mill for now (though once I get the rest of
the 1/2 barrell system set up I'll probably splurge).  Anyway, past posts
about motorizing it with gears and pulleys, etc got me thinking I should
post what I have done with mine.

The Hopper:  While the one pound hopper supplied was probably good enough
for making corn flour, etc it's woefully small for beer brewing.  Go to
your local hardware store. In the furnace  section you can find flat panels
of galvanized steel ducting which, when rolled up and hooked together, make
a 9# hopper that fits right into the Corona hopper.  I use the 5" by 24"
size that has sort-of a serrated end.  I tried different expansion pieces
but they were the exact diameter of the Corona hopper and don't fit inside.
 This alone cut the normal grind time for 9# down to about 10 - 15 minutes
since I didn't have to stop every 2 minutes to refill the hopper.  Make
sure you use one hand to hold onto the hopper because it is a little top
heavy when filled.  

Motorizing:  While at the hardware store purchase a 5/16" x 3" bolt.  Use a
Dremel, hacksaw or die grinder to cut the head off and then grind some flat
surfaces on the shaft (this will help your drill hold on better).  Place
bolt into drill and then *drill* the screw into where the handle's normally
attached.  Adjust the speed of your drill so that it's a little faster than
you could hand crank.  You don't want to go too fast or you'll shred the
husks even more than the Corona  normally does.  

IMPORTANT:  this is more of a 2 person milling job because, if you fill the
above hopper with grain, the drill will have a hard time getting started
due to the torque required.  Nasty electrical smell.  Repurchase of
electric drill possible negating the lower cost of the Corona.  I didn't
want to chance it so, since I Mill Alone (think George T-good would write a
brewing song?) I gave up my motorizing quest in favor of exercise.

ALSO IMPORTANT:  make sure you have the deflecter plate or other covering
on the top of the grinding plates or this setup will spew grain everywhere!
 

Hope this helps the other Corona users out there. 

John Heubel
Wichita Falls, TX


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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 09:32:58 -0700
From: Brian Cornelius <corneliu at colfax.com>
Subject: re: water analysis: denied

>in preparation for the upcoming brew season, i've had my wife call the
local water >dept. to get a lab analysis sent to us.  the local water dept.
has no clue what i'm >talking about.  they mentioned that they test for
nitrates every once in a while, >but don't really know what i'm talking
about when i've asked for a >mineral/hardness/alkalinity analysis.  

The report you're looking for is called an "Inorganic Chemical Analysis".
The test includes results for Iron, Nitrate, Chloride, Hardness, Sodium,
Turbidity, etc.

>they told my wife that they can come out and take a sample from our tap, and
>do an analysis, but it will cost over a hundred dollars.

They probably could do that, although the last test that was done for my
Water District was more like $195 and that was in 1991.

>do i *not* have the right to know what's in my water, for free?

The answer is yes.  However, it took me 9 months of badgering to get a copy
of this same report.  I might add that the local Health Department probably
also has a copy of this report.  This is also a health issue.

Brian
Steptoe, Washington


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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:26:06 -0500
From: Rick Olivo <ashpress at win.bright.net>
Subject: Barbeque

Although this is not strictly on topic, I will add this fig leaf. I find
that when barbequing chicken and ribs, a good, liberal basting with a
nice bottle of homebrewed dark ale adds a lovely carmelized flavor to
the meat, and allows the barbeque sauce to stick much better. Plus the
aroma is heavenly.OK Having sead that, I feel that I must respond to a
comment made by Joe schmoe in Friday's issue.
"Rick Gontarek gave a recipe for barbecue.  The ribs prepared that way
may be
good but they wont be barbecue.  Barbecue is prepared in a barbecue pit
with a
separate firebox and cooked slowly for hours at about 275F.  Proper
barbecue
should have a red ring on the outer edge called a smoke ring.  I may be
picking
nits but I see a lot of reference to food cooked on a grill as barbecue
and
that is not what it is."
I beg to differ. I am as big a fan of Texas pit-barbeque as anyone but
it is by no means the only kind of barbeque available, any more than
American Standard Lager is the only kind of beer available. The American
Heritage Dictionary of The American Language defines barbequeas "1. A
grill, pit or outdoor fireplace for roasting meat. 2. meat roasted over
an open fire or on a spit. -cued, -cuing, to cook (meat) over live coals
or an open fire. The word has it's roots in the American Spanish word
"barbacoa" which describes a form of slow cooking meat with low heat and
smoke to preserve and cook the meat so it will survive a short storage
and still remain flavorful, as opposed to long-storage preperation by
brining, salting or hard-smoking. Barbacoa is especially associated with
the pirates of the Caribbean, who earned the name "buccaneer" (from the
French "boucanier" --"one who cures meat on a barbeque frame") from the
practice. To say that only the seperate smokebox method of barbeque is
"real" barbeque is to ignore the many methods that have been used to
prepare meat and other foodstuffs in a savory style made possible by
direct heat and flame. Whether it's a dug pit with a pig wrapped in
cloth or a Weber Kettle with burgers or just a rustic grill heated with
Mesquite on the range to cook some inch thick steaks, it's all barbeque.
In it's way it has as wide a range of regional characteristics as beer
does.

Strange Brewer aka Rick Olivo
Vitae sine Cervesae Sugat!!!
"Life without beer sucks!!!"
Originator of Texas Rick's Gourmet Barbeque Sauce. "It's so good, you
could grill a rock with it and people would come back for seconds."

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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 12:40:50 -0500
From: Rick Olivo <ashpress at win.bright.net>
Subject: Re: Barbeque

I owe John Wilkinson an apology for the below which I inadvertantly
included in my last post. 
"I feel that I must respond to a comment made by Joe schmoe in Friday's
issue." 
I did NOT mean to be insulting. I was using "Joe Schmoe" as a place
holder because I could not remember his name, I intended to go back to
his post, write down his name and change the name in my post to the
correct name. Like an idiot, I of course forgot, and thus the "Joe
Schmoe" appears. It is not my practice to be insulting. (At least not to
people who don't deserve it.) I am mortified at this really stupid
error. My humble apologies to a fellow Texan and homebrewer, and to the
rest of the collective who might have been offended by this breach of
civility and etiquette.

Rick Olivo/ aka Strange Brewer

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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 18:16:49 -0400
From: "Capt. Marc Battreall" <batman at reefnet.com>
Subject: Yeast Management

Greetings to all !

I have a question regarding the handling of pure yeast cultures and the
procedures used in propagating them into starter cultures. I recently
aquired all the fixin's to start preparing my own yeast bank and am
anxious to get started.

My wife is a Phamacologist and operates a home I.V. therapy company and
part of her equipment array includes a Class 100 Horizontal  Laminar Air
Flow Hood. Naturally she has given me permission to use it to work in
while handling my yeast cultures. 
My question is: Assuming all of my yeast containers (ie slants, vials,
tubes etc) were sterile to begin with, is it necessary to "flame" the
container openings and whatnot to maintain a sterile environment? After
all, this hood is used to work with medical I.V's that are eventually
going to end up in someone's body so it's pretty safe to assume that
this environment is absolutely sterile. I feel confident that this will
be a good workplace for yeast culturing, I am just curious about all the
"flaming & torching" of the media.

Thanks in advance for the help!

Marc Battreall

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Date: Sun, 13 Jul 97 12:57:59 PDT
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at kansas.net>
Subject: Food for Thought

Food for Thought-
	Just to indicate the need for beer education that is yet to be done:
	From The Des Moines Register, "2 Cents Worth Column," a collection of
statements by anonymous individuals that call into an answering machine-
	"Pitcher beer served from a CO2 delivery system will cause headaches if
any of the CO2 leaks into the beer."
	Seems we have a long way to go.
Cheers!
Jethro Gump

Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas

"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"

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Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:29:27 -0500
From: Steve <srockey at egyptian.net>
Subject: A brewing/beer poem...

A Brewing Poem by,
George Arnold
1834-1865

Beer
Here,
   With my beer
I sit
While golden moments flit:
   Alas!
   They pass
Unheeded by:
And, as they fly,
I,
Being dry,
   Sit, idly sipping here
   My beer
O, finer far
Than fame, or riches, are
The graceful smoke-wreaths of this free cigar!
   Why
   Should I
   Weep, wail, or sigh?
   What if luck has passed me by?
What if my hopes are dead,-
My pleasures fled?
   Have I not still
   My fill
Of right good cheer,-
Cigars and beer?
   Go, whining youth,
   Forsooth!
Go, weep and wail,
Sigh and grow pale,
   Weave melancholy rhymes
   On the old times,
Whose joys like shadowy ghosts appear,-
But leave to me my beer!
   Gold is dross,-
   Love is loss,-
So, if I gulp my sorrows down,
Or see them drown
In foamy draughts of old nut-brown,
Then do I wear the crown,
   Without the cross!



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---