HOMEBREW Digest #2491 Mon 25 August 1997

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Overnight mash (Jacques Bourdouxhe)
  hop ripeness "papery feel" (Ian Smith)
  Jethro and little apple ("Harold R. Wood")
  beer trivia (Andy Walsh)
  MLD, the end of the saga (hopefully) (haafbrau1)
  RE:  Natural Gas vs. Propane (dconger)
  Crystal (Stiv Stroud)
  Filtering/Paulaner 'Fest ("C&S Peterson")
  PNW Hoppiness; "americanized" styles ("C&S Peterson")
  More kudos for Jethro ("Dave Draper")
  hopback vs. strainer (James R. Layton 972.952.3718 JLAY)
  Jethro support/Hi (Andrew Ager)
  Commercial HB Competitions ("Houseman, David L")
  NOTE 08-21-97 11:00:51 AM (LNUSTRUK.CZLSSB)
  No corny keg pressure (Mike Spinelli)
  5th Annual Peach State Brewoff (egross)
  Lid on or off (Steve Scott)
  RE: Sankey fermenters (John_E_Schnupp)
  Re: Natural Gas vs. Propane (Jeff Renner)
  conversion to Belgian degrees (smurman)
  my lager solution (John_E_Schnupp)
  Wild Rice? ("Paavola, Patrick C.")
  RE:  Pub Draught Guiness (Hal Buttermore)
  Natural Gas vs. Propane (Steve Scott)
  CABA Annual General Meeting (Eamonn McKernan)
  stuck RIM (Hans Geittmann)
  methanol / fruit beer (Eamonn McKernan)
  re:berries (Charley Burns)
  Carbonic/Bicarbonate/Carbonate - Part 1 of 4 (A. J. deLange)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 16:10:51 -0400 From: bourdouj at ERE.UMontreal.CA (Jacques Bourdouxhe) Subject: Overnight mash Hi braumeisters John D. Elsworth asks about overnight mash, I can tell you that it works great. The last batch I brewed , a best bitter ( not a Foreign Stout !!!) used the overnight mash technique. It was the first time I used this process. I mashed in the electric oven, with the oven ON and the thermostat on the minimum setting. There was no drop in temperature during the 6 hours I was sleeping. The bitter turned out very good ( it is my standard bitter recipe ) ,there was no difference in O.G., F.G. or taste with the other batches mashed the " normal " way. Of course brewers with no oven or using a picnic cooler should insulate their mash-tun and brew high gravity beers so the thermal inertia is maximum ( Honey, I MUST brew a hoppy barley wine or an Imperial Stout ). Now I'm not a microbiologist ( I'm not even playing Dr. Quincy on TV ), but could it be possible for a mash in a poorly or uninsulated mas-tun to sour during the time it takes for an overnight mash? Anyone dare to answer? Next time with the correct oven setting I could even wake up with the mash at mash-out temperature. I hope this help Jacques in Montreal ************************************************* * Oh beer! O Hodgson, Guinness, Allsop, Bass! * * Names that should be on every infant's tongue * * ( Charles Stuart Calverley ) * ************************************************* Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 17:47:06 -0600 (MDT) From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs at netcom.com> Subject: hop ripeness "papery feel" A number of people have described ripe (ready to harvest) hops as having a "papery" feel. I am confused as to what this is like - they have always felt "papery" to me even when they were very green. Can anyone out there give me a better description of what to look for in ripe hops? Is there a more scientific method of determining the time to pick the hops such as humidity (water content) etc ? Cheers Ian Smith isrs at rela.uucp.netcom.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 15:41:03 +1000 From: "Harold R. Wood" <thewoods at netpci.com> Subject: Jethro and little apple I just read Andy's post regarding Rob and the little apple. I had wanted to submit a posting regarding my recent visit to Rob and the LABC but felt it was probably not HBD material. However... My family and I recently went on vacation to the US mainland (we live on Guam). My part of vacation was to consist of as many visits to Brewpubs that I could manage. I sent a message to Rob befor I left and he graciously invited me to visit. I had visited the LABC perhaps four years ago and I frankly was not impressed. Certainly not with the decoration of the brewpub, and not with the beer or food either. I did not expect I would ever return to the LABC. However, because of Rob's engaging personality on HBD and IBS Forum I decided a visit was a must. We traveled by car from LA to San Diego to Flagstaff to Kansas, back through Colarado and LA. We hit about 15 brewpubs during the trip. The visit to Rob was truly the highlight to my trip (and we stopped off at the Grand Canyon!). Rob was a gracious host to a drop in HBD'er. He forced me to try all of his beers, he showed me the brewery, and he talked beer to me long past the attention span of my wife and kids. In comparison to my visit 4 years previously: The character of the pub was much improved as Rob had decorated it with his personal "beer stuff". The food was improved, but still rather ordinary. The beer was magical. So much better that the previous trip and better than the other 15 brewpubs that I visited. Rob was the best part, a truly special person who obviously loves brewing. Thanks Jethro, you have given me one of my most treasured "beer experiences". I wish you all the best and I hope to be able to visit you again. Rick Wood HBD'er on Guam Island Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 15:33:21 -0700 From: Andy Walsh <awalsh at crl.com.au> Subject: beer trivia Does anybody possess (or know of) any beer trivia questions available on the web? Our club wants some for a trivia night soon. I know there is a book and a game available, but where is the downloadable stuff? Andy. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 07:27:04 -0400 From: haafbrau1 at juno.com Subject: MLD, the end of the saga (hopefully) Hopefully this will be my last comment pertaining to MLD. HBD has been experiencing a 2-3 day delay before posting. So much for those slow summer months. This has allowed time for me to send one post out of aggravation, have the situation fixed as good as possible (with at least one back-up plan), send another post thanking everyone (including Dick Dunn), and receive 2 MLDs, before the first note actually posted. Time warps can really tweek things but good. Even though I probably won't be able to personally post on MLD, I think I'll be able to relay any posts as needed. This will effectively free up my HBD posts to just the subjects intended; Botulism, Oldbudmillcoors, plambic bashing, how to use page down, and oh yeah, Homebrew :-)!!! Beer..."a high and mighty liquor" - Julius Caesar Paul Haaf haafbrau1 at juno.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 10:15:02 -0400 From: dconger at roadshow.com Subject: RE: Natural Gas vs. Propane TO: homebrew at hbd.org Darrell Garton writes in HBD 2489: "There is no difference in the 'fumes' of Propane vs. Natural Gas. Both are commonly used for indoors applications." But isn't it the case that Propane is heavier than air and therefore can "pool" in low lying areas (i.e., basements) and therefore presents more of a danger around furnaces and water heaters with pilot lights? -- David Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 10:29:06 -0500 From: Stiv Stroud <strouds at cliffy.polaroid.com> Subject: Crystal spencer> Speaking of the "real Budweiser", I was in Beers of the World in Rochester, NY spencer> recently, and spotted a beer called "Crystal." It was made in Ceske Budejovice spencer> (in German, "Budweis"). Inquiring minds want to know: Is this the real stuff, spencer> or is it yet another beer that happens to be made in the same town? Same town, but the other brewery (Samson if I recall from the label). Not the real Budvar, but a pretty tasty Czech pils anyway. Light and dark versions showed up in Beantown a year or so ago, though I haven't seen them recently (you might therefore wonder about the freshness of what you saw in NY). Cheers Steve Stroud Boston Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 97 11:29:39 UT From: "C&S Peterson" <CNS_PETERSON at classic.msn.com> Subject: Filtering/Paulaner 'Fest HBDers - Just a quick response to a post on Filtering and beer flavor. I have been using a filter (different micron ratings) for the past year, experimenting on about 12 batches of beer. The impact of the filter on beer flavor is minimal. However, a 1-2 micron will "clean-up" the flavor of some lighter styles (pils, kolsch, etc), and particularly if an assertive yeast is being used. Also, I noticed a significant (maybe 10%?) drop in bitterness in the filtered beer from the unfiltered beer. You may want to adjust your hopping rate if you plan to filter. Of course there is reduced sediment in the bottle (marginal benefit), and if you filter down to a micron or two, enhanced clarity (for my brewery, I find that I can reach, but not quite meet, the clarity of filtering with poly-clar and time). Filtering can also help if you're in a beer shortage, and want to filter/force carbonate in kegs for a party where guests would object to cloudy brew. Given my limited experience with filtering, next year I plan to "rough filter" (5 microns) my darker lagers and American style ales, and "tight filter" my lighter beers where I want a cleaner profile. I do not plan to filter my British ales. In general, using a filter adds several hours per batch to the brewing process, and depends greatly on what style filter you use. Some require little to no sanitation, while the reusable "Filter Store" cartridge filters require *a lot* of work. Take a look at articles in The Brewery and in the recent Zymurgy for more information. Also, give the Filter Store a call if you plan to go that route -- they can help you with some of the sanitizing procedures. One final note -- filtering (for clarity) is largely useless unless you can chill the beer to 40F or lower. You can't get at that chill haze (even with a 0.5 micron filter) unless its chilled........ In response to a post on Paulaner Ocktoberfest bier, I too am enamoured of that brew. In fact, if I had a single brew on which to live, this would probably be it. I have tried (sucessfully, IMHO) to get close to this brew. The results depend largely on not just the varieties of malt you use, but the maltster. I would suggest copious amounts of Munich malt (say 40% if it is Durst), some Vienna, and some American two-row. I would also strongly suggest some Aromatic, Special-B, and Biscuit malt. Keep in mind that Briess Munich is much different than imported german Munich (IMHO, you'll need less Briess to get that sweet nutty flavor). 24-26 IBUs and a starting gravity of 1.060+ have worked well for me, as has Wyeast Bavarian. Needless to say, this brew is screaming for a decoction mash -- a single will do, but a double is better. If you insist on an infusion, then perhaps boiling some of the first runnings and adding back to the mash for mash out might help. Watch your fermenation temps, and give plenty of cold lagering time. I would probably favor a rough filter (5 microns) if you are so inclined. Good Luck, Chas Peterson Laytonsville, Md Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 97 11:49:30 UT From: "C&S Peterson" <CNS_PETERSON at classic.msn.com> Subject: PNW Hoppiness; "americanized" styles HBDers - After reading George P's post, I was inclined to agree with him. I do a significant amount of travel in and out of the US, and constantly seek out local brewpubs and micros. Now, I do not object to a hoppy, assertive brew, but I guess I'm just getting a little bored with brewpub/micro that offer only this characteristic in their brews. The brewpubs and micros I enjoy the most are the ones that offer not just the hoppy IPA, Amber, whatever, but use unique malts/processes/yeasts/adjuncts to offer variety too. I mean, how many times have you seen the Blonde, Pale, Amber, Porter, Stout taster line-up in front of you, all screaming hops? Why not a "Big Wheat" like Front Street in Santa Clara? Or a real Dunkle like GB in San Jose? Or a Scotch Ale like Old Town Tavern In Gaithersburg? Or a Belgian Ale like Blue/Gold in Arlington? You get the idea. The best brewpubs and micros I feel are the ones that offer a balanced line up, which may included unbalance beers (both malty and hoppy) but balanced ones too. Why? I think this can lead to new styles of beer. We now have West Coast Amber recognized to go with American Wheat and APA. Can an American Porter or American Kolsch be far behind? As someone pointed out a few months ago, maybe an American Black Lager is in order? These styles are definately popular in craft-brewery line-ups today, which seems to be a pre-cursor for emerging beer syles. And just as an illustrative point, the American Kolsch seems hoppier and bigger than its German originator, but IMHO it still must be balanced. As Spencer said in his post, it is fun to visit the fringe -- it gives us the incentive to be creative. But I don't want to stay there exclusively. Chas Peterson Laytonsville, Md Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 09:45:27 -6 From: "Dave Draper" <ddraper at utdallas.edu> Subject: More kudos for Jethro Dear Friends, Let me add my voice to Andy's in support of our own Rob Moline's integrity and generosity as a craftbrewer and friend. Andy has already recounted the main points of the trouble that Rob is encountering so I won't rehash any of that. But I will add to the story of how Rob gave of his beers and money to allow my former clubmates in Sydney to taste his beers. Rob shipped beers to me at the California residence of my parents on two occasions to coincide with my visits from Australia. For one of these, he sent *six gallons* of beer-- six growlers filled right at the bar, sealed up and boxed, and UPS'd to California from Kansas. Anyone who's hefted a carboy full of beer (that is, all of us) knows how heavy that is-- you do the math for the shipping cost. But wait, there's more. Each time, he also sent stacks of beer coasters, magazines, mousepads, pint glasses, and more from the festivals he attended (notably the GABF where that truly sublime barleywine took the gold). I then hoisted these growlers of beer aboard as carry-on luggage (eyebrows of the airport security folks were sky-high but no one said anything) and eventually got them to the club tasting sessions that Andy wrote about. What Rob wanted for this was just for us to judge the beers and give him candid feedback-- nothing more. We were only too happy to oblige him. On a more personal note, late last year and early this year, as my fixed-term position in Sydney was drawing to a close with no prospects on the horizon (my current post popped up at the very last minute), Rob lent all kinds of advice and support as I was considering the frightening prospect of having to give up on my chosen field and start over (that may yet happen, of course...), and what I now know is that, at much the same time, he was going through all the crises that were mentioned in Andy's post. For him to have been as giving of his time and brainwaves during all that is pretty amazing, to say the least. I couldn't have done such a thing, that's for sure. So I too raise my glass (one of the dozen he gave me, I might add) to Rob and wish him every success in getting into a better situation than the one that LABCO imposed upon him. Here's to you, mate. Cheers, Dave in Dallas President, Rob Moline Appreciation Society, Dallas Division. - --- ***************************************************************************** Dave Draper, Dept Geosciences, U. Texas at Dallas, Richardson TX 75083 ddraper at utdallas.edu (commercial email unwelcome) WWW: hbd.org/~ddraper Beer page: http://hbd.org/~ddraper/beer.html I am speaking from a materials perspective... ---John Palmer Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 09:43:05 -0500 From: layton at sc45.dseg.ti.com (James R. Layton 972.952.3718 JLAY) Subject: hopback vs. strainer First, my thanks to those readers who responded to my request for better terminology to differentiate these devices. I offer these definitions in the hope that others may find them useful. My research did not include all of the well-known texts, but the sources listed at the end of this post support these definitions. None of the texts I examined during this research offered a conflicting definition for the hopback, though one used the terms "strainer" and "hopback" somewhat interchangeably for a device external to the boil kettle. Page numbers, chapter and verse are available on request. It seems that in commercial brewing, hops are normally transfered from the kettle along with the wort. I suspect this has to do with the difficulty of cleaning spent hops from the inside of the kettle. I found this effort rewarding in that it has caused me to modify my own understanding of the term "hopback". hopback (synonymous with hopjack): A barrel or drum-like container with a screen or false bottom which is used to strain hops from the boiled wort. In use, wort is piped from the boiler to the hopback, then to the settling and cooling apparatus of the brewery. The addition of fresh hops to the hopback prior running off the wort is optional. All sources referenced below reserved this term for a device outside of the boil kettle. hop strainer: A device (e.g. woven wire screen, perf. plate, "scrubby") used to retain hops in the kettle when transfering wort after the boil. References: Master Brewers Assoc. of America, "The Practical Brewer" (Thanks to William Stewart) Miller, "Continental Pilsner" Miller, "Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide" Noonan, "New Brewing Lager Beer" Wahl and Henius, "American Handy Book of the Brewing, Malting, and Auxiliary Trades" Jim Layton (Howe, TX) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 10:01:16 -0500 From: Andrew Ager <andrew-ager at nwu.edu> Subject: Jethro support/Hi Greetings, collective. I've been lurking about for almost a year now, mainly gleaning info. Hi there! Last winter, I posted some pleas for grain info (flaked barley vs. wheat) on rcb, and Rob discussed these in great detail with me, even sharing portions of his stout recipe over email with me. hearing about the kind of idiotic troubles he's in saddens me -- it's just the kind of crap the brewpub industry could really do without, aside from the just plain dumb screwing over of the guy that makes the BP what it is. I'm definitely a Jethro supporter! random brewing note: as my third brewing season begins, I'm a sparging device away from all-grain brewing (just have to get to the brewshop!). My first shot will likely be a dark mild, the recipe for which I'm tinkering with right now to see what I can come up with. Any experienced mild brewers, advice is appreciated. Cheers, Andy Ager Brewer, beer geek, free-lance historian. Chicago, IL http://www.devnull.net/~andy (will appear when I have free time again) *** Chicago Beer Society -- 1997 Runner-Up Homebrew Club Of The Year *** Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 11:19:21 -0400 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: Commercial HB Competitions >I do have some [limited] exprience with such a competition. A bar in >Reading, PA held a competition where the prizes were $500 for first, >$300 for second and $200 for third. There were only 7 entries and the >fee was $5/entry. The point of their competition (judged by patrons, >not brewers) was to obtain the most commercially viable beer (and >all-grain recipe) that they would have contract brewed as their house >beer by a local micro. Seems reasonable to me. Certainly they didn't >collect enough in entry fees to even cover the third place prize. >Perhaps Total Beverage is seeking a similar recipe in order to establish >a line of beers produced by Total Beverage contracted to a micro such as >Dominion? Or they will perhaps then own a number of quality recipes >that perhaps the breweries providing the judges will share in for some >fee. Now $25/entry is rather outrageous...but that does keep out all >but those that think they really have a beer good enough to win. And in >these sorts of competitions, I'd see no reason they should adhere to the >AHA or BJCP guidelines for styles. Enter if you have a shot at winning >but with the quality of homebrewers around, there may be some stiff >competition for the $1000 prize. > >Dave Houseman > Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 11:30:17 -0400 From: LNUSTRUK.CZLSSB at gmeds.com Subject: NOTE 08-21-97 11:00:51 AM 1). I am going to Frankfurt on Biz and will work in a little vacation time to journey northward and drink beer. Naturally, I'm going to do my best to get some yeast cultures, and max out my weight limit with other beer components. Are there any sugestions/precautions I should take for slant preparation, culturing media, dealing with inbound customs. Chuck Carman. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 97 11:35:56 est From: paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli) Subject: No corny keg pressure HBDers, My first experience with kegging is a bust. I bought a brand new 3 gallon Foxx corny to cask condition my brew. Sanitized it and primed w/ 2 oz. dextrose. Sealed it up and waited 10 days. Opened the pressure relief valve to check the pressure and NO HISS!. Talked to a couple HB shops and learned that these kegs are not built to seal themselves under slow natural carbonation. Was advised that the way to do it was to shoot a little C02 in just after priming to seal the lid, and then allow the dextrose time to finish the job of carbonation. Does this sound right? Do I now have to buy a C02 rig just to seal up my cask corny kegs? Luckily, I'll be running this keg over to the HB shop for some emergency force carb'ing today. Mike Spinelli Cherry Hill NJ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 12:00:55 -0400 (EDT) From: egross at emory.edu Subject: 5th Annual Peach State Brewoff The fifth annual Peach State Brewoff will be held Saturday Sept. 21st at John Harvard's brewpub in the Buckhead area of Atlanta,GA. We invite all homebrewers regardless of location to submit entries in any of the AHA recognized style categories, we invite all qualified judges to come share comraderie and earn a point (we expect 250-300 entries), and we invite nonjudges to steward. The PSBO has a tradition of great stewards, in part b/c stewards are encouraged to sample the beers as well, so it can be a fun learning experience for all participants. John Harvard's has wonderful food, and we will feed all judges and stewards. There will be a vegetarian entree as well as a nonvegetarian choice.This year we are not allowing local walkins, tho out of town stewards and judges can walkin preregistered beers.This should speed up our start time.Hope to see you at our competition.Mailers to previous participants and SE judges have just been mailed.Judges and stewards please contact us ASAP so we can register you and get your judging preferences. Any questions, please feel free to contact us: Lee Gross, PSBO organizer, egross at emory.edu Chris Terenzi, Co-organizer, cterenzi at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 12:06:34 -0400 From: sscott at lightlink.com (Steve Scott) Subject: Lid on or off Should you brew with the brewpot lid on or off? Why? Thanks much. ** The problem with the average family today is that it's=20 impossible to support it and the government on one income. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 09:02:19 -0700 From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com Subject: RE: Sankey fermenters >Turn the sankey upside down so the stem hole is pointing down, and >cut the upper part off (what was the bottom) using a 4" disc grinder >so that a standard stock pot lid will cover the hole. Now, shove a >#11 drilled rubber stopper up into the stem hole good and tight. I >had to use a hammer to get it in good. Then cut a 2' piece of 3/8" Why not just put the stopper in from the inside of the fermenter/ former keg, or is this what you're doing. This way you'd never have to worry about the stopper coming out (it's tapered). The only time I could see this being a problem is if you want to remove trub or yeast from the bottom of the fermenter, but then I don't think that you do that, especially since you *hammered* the stopper in place. Another suggestion is to use a lid that is clear. A piece of plexi- glass should work nicely. There would never be any problems taking a peek inside. John Schnupp, N3CNL Colchester, VT 95 XLH 1200 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 12:13:41 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Natural Gas vs. Propane In HBD 2489, Darrell <darrell at montrose.net> wrote: >There is no difference in the "fumes" of Propane vs. Natural Gas. Both >are commonly used for indoors applications. The problem is oxygen >depletion, and it will happen with both, so make sure your room is >adequately ventilated. Don't discount carbon monoxide as another problem requiring ventilation. I brew in a 2-1/2 car garage and use three propane fired Metal Fusion Products (Cajun) ring burners, not the jet burners, and they are adjusted properly, as far as I can tell (very little yellow flames). This past year I got a digital CO detector and was shocked to see that with all three burners going full, the CO level reached three digits inside of ten minutes and kept climbing. Even with the garage doors open six inches, I still get dangerous double digit levels. This makes winter brewing less comfortable (but safer) than back in my days of ignorance. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 09:26:13 -0700 From: smurman at best.com Subject: conversion to Belgian degrees Now that everyone has several ways of computing degrees Plato, does someone have a conversion to Belgian legal degrees? My co-worker is from Belgium and we don't speak the same gravity. TIA SM Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 09:23:45 -0700 From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com Subject: my lager solution In HDB #2489, there were, I believe, at least 2 questions about brewing lagers. Here's what I did. It worked well enough to win me a 3rd place in category 2 years ago. Let me preface with the fact that I live in VT (it can get quite cold up here). This idea should work for anyone in a "northern" climate where the average daytime high is below the highest temperature at which you wish to ferment. I constructed a box for my carboy. I attached a light bulb socket the lid. My temperature controller is from Watlow but there are may other kinds and manufactures the would work. The temp controller is wired so that the light will turn on when the temp falls below the setpoint (target ferment temp). I used a 60w bulb, but any bulb will do just be aware that a larger bulb will produce more heat. I built my box out of 1/4" plywood (scraps from another project) but you will probably get better temp control and stability if it is insulated. The idea is basically a "reverse" fridge. It is similar to the cold boxes you build so that you can ferment in the summer. If you have one. you could probably install a heat source (light bulb) and have something you can set out on the porch or patio in the winter and be able to brew a great lager. It worked for me on several batches. One final work of caution, you want to make sure it won't get too cold. Here in VT in Jan/Feb it is not uncommon to have several days to a week or more of days where the temp won't even break 0 degF. It's times like this that are better left for sitting in front of a cozy fire with you favourite homebrew rather that try and ferment outside. John Schnupp, N3CNL Colchester, VT 95 XLH 1200 Return to table of contents
Date: 21 Aug 1997 11:25:42 -0500 From: "Paavola, Patrick C." <Paavola.Patrick at mayo.edu> Subject: Wild Rice? Fellow Brewers, Does anyone have experience with using wild rice in the grain bill? I have about a pound in my cupboard that I may use in my next batch. Any help would be appreciated. TIA. Return to table of contents
Date: 21 Aug 97 11:30:43 EDT From: Hal Buttermore <71672.1766 at CompuServe.COM> Subject: RE: Pub Draught Guiness In HBD #2488, John Goldthwaite talks of a bad experience with Guiness Pub Draught cans... I can only guess that he somehow got ahold of a bad sample, as in the Ann Arbor/Detroit area we have had the exact opposite experience. The Guiness is smooth, rich, with a creamy head just like Guiness 'on tap'! Definitely NOT as bitter as that in the bottle. It is important to point out that Guiness bottled for 'export' here is a different product than the Guiness served in England/Ireland. (Michael Jackson writes about this in one of his books, but I can not quote at this time.) The pub draught cans more closely resemble the real thing. I have recently converted several 'unenlightened' co-workers to Guiness pub draught because it is indeed so different than the bottled version that they despised! Also available now are two English ales, Boddingtons and Abbott, both in pint cans with the nitrogen charge, and quite excellent indeed! Try buying them again, perhaps from a different area, as these are great beers. Anyone having travelled to Britain care to comment? Brewfully, Hal B. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 13:13:39 -0400 From: sscott at lightlink.com (Steve Scott) Subject: Natural Gas vs. Propane =46rom: Darrell <darrell at montrose.net> In HBD #2486, Thor asks about Propane vs. Natural Gas vs. Electricity. >"...and cant safely do so with propane because of the fumes..." >There is no difference in the "fumes" of Propane vs. Natural Gas. Both >are commonly used for indoors applications. The problem is oxygen >depletion, and it will happen with both, so make sure your room is >adequately ventilated. Depending on where you live, your sources, etc. >you will probably find that Natural Gas is the least expensive of the >three per BTU. There is another major difference. Propane is heavier than air while methane is lighter than air. This can be an extremely dangerous trait particularly if you're brewing indoors. ** The problem with the average family today is that it's=20 impossible to support it and the government on one income. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 13:58:05 -0400 From: Eamonn McKernan <eamonn at atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca> Subject: CABA Annual General Meeting Greetings collective, Just back from a two week vacation. Checked out the old growth in Temagami, played with my car, a brewed a pale ale, and an Imperial Stout with 8 kg of frozen strawberries. I forgot what it was like to take time off. Ah, summer! Anyways, The Canadian Amateur Brewers Association is now planning its annual general meeting. Thought some of you all might be interested in attending. As always, the meeting itself is free to all attendees. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions, Eamonn McKernan CABA Secretary eamonn at atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca - ---------------- Here's the schedule and pricing information: Planned day of CABA AGM (Saturday, November 22, 1997). CABAL members are also invited at the same prices. 9:00AM Coffee & doughnuts at Feathers (962 Kingston Rd., Toronto, - first light west of Victoria Park Ave.). 9:30AM AGM 11:00AM Free pint of Feathers brewed beer while All About Ales awards presented. 11:30AM Board bus. 1:00PM Arrive Old Stone Brewing Co. (brewpub). Buffet lunch with free pint and whistle stop brewery trip. 2:30PM Arrive United Canadian Malt. Split into groups. Group 1 slide show while group 2 shown mill, mash tun, lauter tun, evaporators etc., then swap. 4:30PM 5 minute drive to Kawartha Lakes Brewing Co. Brewery trip. 6:00PM Bus back to Feathers. Optional dinner. 8:00PM Beer trivia quiz for those still around. Prices are as follows: Those attending the meeting only - free. Coffee, doughnuts & pint after meeting - $8, ($10 non members) Peterbrough trip only - $40 ($45 non members) Whole day - $45 ($50 non members) Payment should be made by cheque mailed to: CABA, 146 First Ave., Toronto, ON M4M 1X1 Please write "CABA AGM" on your cheque. A maximum of 55 people can travel on the coach. Book early for a seat. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 11:20:09 -0700 From: Hans Geittmann <hans at sven-tech.com> Subject: stuck RIM Last night I was brewing an Octoberfest in my RIMS and ran into several problems- the main one being that I couldn't get any flow through my grain bed. Eventually, it turned out ok, but only after 30 minutes of panic, 30 minutes of depression, and a few pints of homebrew to cheer me up... So, I'm wondering what can cause a recirculating mash to stick (and I'm guessing this is the same question, almost, about what causes a stuck sparge). The specifics- converted keg RIMS (cross between Keith Royster's and CD Pritchard'ss design), strike temperature of 160F. Grain bill (10 gallon batch): 10# Munich malt, 6# Klages 2 row, 1# Aromatic, 1# dark Caramunich. One of quart of water in the mash tun per pound of grain on top of about a gallon of water to bring the level in the tun up to the false bottom. List of possible concerns I've come up with: Mash too thick Never used Munich malt before, could this be the culprit? Added grist too fast (I dumped it in pretty fast this time) Pump running while adding grist I tried stirring the mash, still stuck. Then I added 1 gallon of water, still stuck. Stirred again, still stuck. Started scooping grain out- after I filled my old 3 gallon pot, the mash started to recirculate. I was able to add the grain back to the tun without it sticking again, 1.5 hours after the intitial dough in. The sweet wort didn't run clear for another hour after that, which is by far the longest it's taken to clear- usually it takes about 20-30 minutes. Any ideas what caused this agony and how it can be avoided? Thanks Hans - -- Hans Geittmann Sven Technologies, Inc. hans at sven-tech.com http://www.sven-tech.com/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 14:36:06 -0400 From: Eamonn McKernan <eamonn at atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca> Subject: methanol / fruit beer Hi again, I have been asked to respond to a letter from a CABA member about methanol in homebrew. It seems that some local paper wrote an article about methanol poisoning from homebrew. The author talks about beer, and distilled homebrew interchangeably, resulting in a rather misleading piece. I know that as long as no distillation is attempted, homebrew poses no risk in this regard. Distillation can however result in toxic methanol concentrations. The questions that I cannot answer are as follows: - How much methyl alcohol is produced during the fermentation of beer? (I'm sure that a lot of factors can influence this. High and low end numbers would be nice to know.) - Of the recorded cases of methyl alcohol related deaths in Canada (or the US), what percentage can be attributed to bad homebrew? (I suspect 0). - Is it really true that you can purchase a home distillation licence in NB for $100??? - ------------- On an unrelated note, I brewed a 1071 OG Imperial Stout recently (as I mentionned in my previous posting). It dropped to 1026 in 2 1/2 days, at which point I added 8 kg of strawberries (still partially frozen) to the two (half full) fermenters. That was Monday night. The strawberries are still floating on top, but have turned a very pale pink colour. A good sign that the flavour is leeching into the beer, despite the fact that they seem to be hardly in contact with it. I figure that I'll leave the berries in there for at least a week before racking to a (single) secondary (the primary fermenters are a plastic carboy, and a plastic bucket with saran wrap on top). Does anyone have any experience with fruit who can offer some advice on how long to leave the berries in there? My concerns are that 1) the bucket is not a well sealed fermenter: fine for a primary, but lousy as a secondary. 2) I assume that eventually the fruit will rot. I only want to get the "good" fruit flavour. I decided not to add the berries to the primary so as to avoid sanitation worries (acidic, alcoholic beer is much less prone to infection), and because the violent primary fermentation of a high gravity beer not only would be even harder to contain with all that fruit, it would also scrub out a lot of fruit aroma with its prodigious CO2 evolution. This puppy had 31 HBUs of chinook in there for a 1 1/4 hour boil, so I'll have to lay it down for 6 months or a year before I really know if it's turned out fine or not. Can't wait! Thanks all, Eamonn McKernan eamonn at atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 12:58:30 -0700 From: Charley Burns <cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us> Subject: re:berries Andy asks about using brewing beer with berries (b cubed?) in HBD#2489: My process for using strawberries: Pick 'em. Wash 'em. Freeze 'em (24 hours - breaks down cell walls) Thaw 'em Heat 'em - to 160F for 10 minutes. (DO NOT BOIL!!!) Toss 'em - into the secondary on top of the beer. Leave 'em - for a week to 10 days. FWIW, Charley Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:53:17 -0500 From: ajdel at mindspring.com (A. J. deLange) Subject: Carbonic/Bicarbonate/Carbonate - Part 1 of 4 Dana Edgell wrote asking a couple of questions about interpreting carbonate/bicarbonate figures in water reports and syntheses. A couple of long airplane rides with in-between time in the Heathrow Red Carpet Room came up with the following interesting (I thought) way of looking at this but there may be some jet-lag induced errors in what follows. It's quite lengthy and probably boring to many so I'll break it into 4 parts and post them over a couple of days. Part I Dana wrote: >I have two questions about the ppm of bicarbonates vs carbonates. As I >understand it the chemical equations of importance here are... >CaCO3 <--> Ca++ + CO3-- >CO3-- + CO2 + H2O <--> 2(HCO3-) >for the dissolving of chalk in a mash or in reverse the precipitation >of chalk by boiling water. The first equation is OK. The second is balanced but does not quite tell the whole story. With respect to the first: whether precipitation or dissolution occurs depends on the product [Ca++]*[CO3--] where [Ca++] is the moles per liter of Ca++ in the solution and similarly for [CO3--]. If [Ca++][CO3--] < 10^-pKs (where pKs has value 8.48 at 25 C) is true then chalk (CaCO3) will dissolve. If the product is larger than the right hand side the solution is super saturated with chalk and precipitation _may_ occur but more chalk will not dissolve. In order to get more chalk to dissolve CO3-- can be removed by adding acid (H+ ions) which convert CO3-- to HCO3- a portion of which is further converted to H2CO3. If the concentration of H2CO3 becomes too high (i.e. if the partial pressure of CO2 in solution excedes that of the partial pressure of CO2 in the atmosphere, CO2 gas will escape. If you pour vinegar over chalk it will fizz. The steps in this conversion of CO3-- can be diagrammed thus: H2O Ca++ H+ H+ H2O \_/ \_ \_ _/ CaCO3 -----> CO3-- ----> HCO3- ----> H2CO3 ----> CO2 pH 12.3 pH 8.4 pH 4.3 % CO3-- 99% 1% 0% % HCO3- 1% 98% 1% % H2CO3 0% 1% 99% I hope this notation is clear (and that tabs and spaces will be preserved else this is going to be noise). We are concernced with the carbonate species. Hence we show other ions and atoms as either coming into the path (H2O, H+ ions) from an as yet unspecified source or being cast off from it (calcium ions, water) as we procede in the direction of the arrows. Readers with some biochemistry background will recognize this notation as very similar to that used to diagram biochemical "pathways"). If we go all the way from left to right in this example we would have converted all added calcium carbonate to carbon dioxide gas and would consume 2 moles of H+ ions for each mole of CaCO3 in the process. In fact we seldom go all the way to the right. How far we go depends on the pH. The numbers under the diagram give some approximate values for the mole fractions (the fractions of the total number of molecules containing carbon and oxygen i.e. carbonic, bicarbonate and carbonate, which are the individual species) at the pH values for which 90-99% of the total are of 1 species. The H+ required can come from any acid. For example one might add some sulfuric acid to the solution. Formally: H2SO4 + 2H2O --> 2H3O+ + SO4-- but we usually don't indicate the water carrying the H+ ions and just write: H2SO4 --> 2H+ + SO4-- The carbonate to carbonic path above is reversible i.e. the direction of the arrows can be turned around in which case things that were required in the first instance get thrown off and conversely. In other words, if carbon dioxide is dissolved in water it will form carbonic acid (we are downplaying this part of the process here and being very sloppy about the distinction between dissolved carbon dioxide and carbonic acid) which will throw off H+ ions and convert to bicarbonate some of which will, in turn, throw off additional H+ and convert to carbonate, all according to the pH: H2O H+ H+ \_ _/ _/ CO2 ----> H2CO3 -----> HCO3- -----> CO3-- Low pH High pH This process is the one which supplies the hydrogen ions needed to dissolve limestone in the ground (the CO2 is a respiration product from soil dwelling bacteria) and I advocate it as a way to get the chalk to dissolve when doing water synthesis as no "dangerous" acids (sulfuric, hydrochloric...) are required. Putting the forward and reverse paths together gives the diagram: Ca++ H2O \_/ H2CO3 <---- HCO3- <----- CO3-- <----- CaCO3 _ _ H2O \ \ \_ _/ _/ CO2 ----> H2CO3 -----> HCO3- -----> CO3-- pH 4.3 pH 8.4 pH 12.3 % CO3-- 0% 1% 99% % HCO3- 1% 98% 1% % H2CO3 99% 1% 99% This diagram in intended to show that H+ ions thrown off by the hydrolysis of carbonic acid are taken up by carbonate and bicarbonate to form, respectively, bicarbonate and carbonic. At a particular pH the number of H+ ions thrown off must be the same as the number taken up. This allows us to answer questions like the main one of interest: If I suspend m mg/L calcium carbonate in a liter of water and sparge enough CO2 to get it to dissolve and bring the pH to a value of pHi, how much carbonate and bicarbonate will there be in the solution? In Part II we will answer that question. - -- Continued -- Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore. Remove NOSPAM to reply. Return to table of contents
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