---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  How to use Hop Pellets? ("Aaron Spurlock")
  Justification for Brewing (Brent Dowell)
  Re: reusing yeast in carboy (Jim Wallace)
  Re:Traquair House Ale - Grain Bill Question (Jim Wallace)
  Drink More Beer (Mike York)
  Tried overnight cooling of boil kettle (Mark Dodgson)
  RIMS sparging methods?? ("Dustin H. Norlund")
  good beer ("Your_Full_Name")
  Justification, blowoff, and an equipment question (GuyG4)
  Mash Efficiency / Stout (kbjohns)
  Tank connections (Randy Lee)
  Mississippi Micro ("Ken Smith")
  Where are you? (Vicky Rowe)
  Justify your expenses (Vicky Rowe)
  Where are you?!! (Randy Ricchi)
  Re: Veggie aroma in the beer/wort (Joe Rolfe)
  Jeff Renner's request-I  2nd (kathy)
  Re: bottling yeasts (Paul Edwards)
  RE: Bottle Storage (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Cabbages and HSA / bubblegum & Brettanomyces (George De Piro)
  Extract Kits (George De Piro)
  RE:pH test strips (Kit Anderson)
  Blowoff hoses (John Wilkinson)
  PALE ALES CALL FOR ENTRIES, DEADLINE DEC. 4, 1997 (Small Change)
  Upward facing manifold ("C&S Peterson")
  re: Boiling Specialty Grains (Charles Burns)
  O2 Safety (Mike Maag)
  Nitrogen Dispensing (Racso Lesiam IV)
  RE: Bottle Storage ("Michael E. Dingas")
  Re: fermenter CO2 to carboy (brian_dixon)
  Oxygen and Yeast (AJ)
  PH strips and Party Star Parts ("David Root")
  mead carbonation level ("Keith Royster")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:27:54 -0800
From: "Aaron Spurlock" <spurlock at azlink.com>
Subject: How to use Hop Pellets?

Okay, I had my holiday ale brewing all planned out. I had new procedures in
place after the input from everyone here. I was sure my boil would happen
well, my fermentation temperatures would be under control, and I was going
to move to unhopped extract!

And I bought pellet hops. Was this a problem? Well, let me quickly describe
my dilemma. As a computer seminar speaker, I always dread the person who
knows just enough to ask me those questions that should have easy answers.
Hopefully, you can all bear with me, because right now, I'm that person who
knows just enough to be dangerous.

I boiled the wort with the pellet hops, and cooled the wort over about 30-40
minutes to 68F in an ice bath. Once that was done, I stirred the wort in a
circle to get all the "gunk" into the center of the pot, wrapped my siphon
uptake tube in my fine mesh bag, and started the siphon in the bottom corner
of the pot. Well, the hop "slime" soon coated the entire bag, stopping any
further flow through it and my siphon died.

I then tried pouring the cooled wort through my funnel, straining out the
hop slime. It was soon coated, and I resorted to a method of pour, clean the
strainer, pour, clean the strainer...

Everything seems to be okay now (fermenting nicely), but this leads to a few
questions:

1. Did I need to worry about separating the pellet hops from the wort for
fermentation? Should I have done a trub removal by putting the wort in my
carboy for 12-hours, and then immediately racking into my primary fermenter
instead?

2. Should I use the whole hops instead? Are they easier to work with?

3. Is it better to siphon out of the boiler? I like the idea of using the
"inline aerator" so siphoning seems attractive. I thought the "whirlpool"
and siphoning through a bag would work, but...

4. Non-related question--what about sanitizing a frozen 2-liter bottle of
ice and plopping it into hot wort to cool? This is suggested in Lee Janson's
book "Brew Chem 101".

Thanks for keeping me going and educating me! Soon I can help answer
questions instead of just ask!

Aaron Spurlock

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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 01:06:49 GMT
From: bdowell at crl.com (Brent Dowell)
Subject: Justification for Brewing

You guys have to justify the expense of your hobby to your
wives?  Man you're lucky.  What I want to know is how to
keep my wife out of my homebrew.  It goes too darn fast
anymore.

Brent Dowell
Lone Unknown Brewing=20
Antioch CA
bdowell at crl.com

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Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 20:15:40 -0500
From: Jim Wallace <jwallace at crocker.com>
Subject: Re: reusing yeast in carboy

- -------Mark Tumarkin <tumarkin at mindspring.com>---------------
Anyway, my question concerns the use of dry hopping when using this
technique. I dry hop with leaf hops (as seems to be the most common
practice), but even with pellets you end up with a lot of hops in the yeast
cake at the bottom of the fermenter. Is this a problem? And if so, what
would be the best way to deal with it? 
- -------------------------------------------------------

Try using several washes with sterile water... pour the yeast into a
sanitized jar add 8-16 ozs sterile water and stir well ...wait for the
heavier particles (hop bits and trub) to settle and pour the top portion off
into another sanitized jar leaving behind the debris ...repeat this another
time or two if needed ...then repitch with this clean yeast  
___________________________________________
       JIM WALLACE ... jwallace at crocker.com
               www.crocker.com/~jwallace  
___________________________________________


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Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 20:15:41 -0500
From: Jim Wallace <jwallace at crocker.com>
Subject: Re:Traquair House Ale - Grain Bill Question

- ------From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)--------------------
My next project - the perfect Strong Scotch Ale and Traquair House Ale is my 
target. Reading in Ray Daniels' _Designing Great Beers_ (page 290), he lists 
the grain bill as Pale Ale malt and Black malt only. Reading Michael 
Jackson's Beer Companion (page 110), he lists Pale Ale malt and Roasted 
Barley only.

Does anyone have a third reference that could clear this up? Is it Black or 
is it Roasted Barley?
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
I would like to offer some input. I just returned from Scotland yesterday
and had an opportunity last week to talk with Frank Smith who brews with Ian
at Traquair. The house was closed and no one else around so I had the opp to
ask a lot of questions while I was there. 

        I did ask the about ingredients and Frank did say there were only 3
ingredients... Pale Malt and EKent Goldings but when I asked about the dark
malt he chose to be a little vague but after a bit more discussion I was
left with the impression it was roast rather than black even though he would
not come right out and say so. Also after having a few pints of the bear ale
and later some of the Jacobite Ale it sure seemed like roast to me. I also
talked with a local enthusiast at the Traquair Arms down the road and he
remembered the Bear Ale being a lot darker in the past, which might indicate
black malt being used in the past.  

        You also have to consider that these beers are fermented in Russian
oak (the oldest dating back to mid 1700s) with lots of character built in.
Frank mentioned that they have been approached several times by
microbiologists that would like to take a core sample to see what kind of
critters are at work here (NoWay). 

        The other interesting point was that the yeast is not maintained.
They get it fresh from various breweries but primarily Belhaven. They have
tried Broughton but that did not work too well. Also of interest was that
they do not beat the yeast back into the beer nor do they skim it unless it
gets too active. The temp seemed to be much warmer than I have been lead to
believe scottish brewers used (it seemed to be in the high 60s-low 70s) and
Frank did say that if the ferment sticks they will give it a good stir and
crank the heat up. This is a real grass roots brewery where small batches (4
barrels) are done in a rather basic environment. Rough cobbelstone floors...
mold/mildew on the walls... these people brew from the heart more than the
book but as Frank mentioned to me The real art of it all is knowing what to
do when things go strange. 

        I hope this helps a bit...
___________________________________________
       JIM WALLACE ... jwallace at crocker.com
               www.crocker.com/~jwallace  
___________________________________________


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Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 20:09:30
From: Mike York <myork at asheboro.com>
Subject: Drink More Beer

>From Brigitte in Hong Kong...


A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo, and
when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the
back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the
herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole
keeps improving by the regular culling of the weakest members.

In much the same way, the human brain can operate only as fast as the
slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, we all know, kills off =
brain cells, but naturally it attacks the slowest and weakest brain =
cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the =
weaker cells, constantly making the brain a faster
and more efficient machine.

Drink more beer!

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Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:31:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Dodgson <mjdodgson at rocketmail.com>
Subject: Tried overnight cooling of boil kettle

Hi

I tried an overnight cooling of the boil kettle last night as suggested by
Jack Schmidling.  The kettle was left around 14 hours.  After this time the
kettle was still quite warm to the touch.  I figured if it was that warm I
wouldn't bother taking the temperature, let alone pitching yeast into it.  So
I had fire up the counter flow chiller anyway.

I was disappointed by the result, but perhaps the overnight temps where Jack
brews are a lot lower than here: last night it got to 12 deg C (53F).  I also
brew 10 gallon batches.

I might try it again in Winter (which is of course over 6 months away in
Australia).


Bye


===
Mark Dodgson
email:mjdodgson at rocketmail.com
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/2609







__________________________________________________________________
Sent by Yahoo! Mail. Get your free e-mail at http://mail.yahoo.com


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Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 19:37:43 -0600
From: "Dustin H. Norlund" <keifer at falcon.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: RIMS sparging methods??

	

I mash using a RIMS system,  I was talking to a guy at the local HB meeting
and he mentioned the following.

Instead of starting a sparge right after mash out he reccomended filling
the mash back up and starting another 5 minute RIMS cycle, then starting
the sparge.  I have used this method two times now and seem to get a better
result in terms of extraction.  

But, what are the drawbacks?  Are there any?  I have not drank the beer yet
so I dont know the full story?

Any comments?



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Date:          Thu, 20 Nov 1997 19:16:46 MST
From: "Your_Full_Name" <AROMO at student.ewc.whecn.edu>
Subject:       good beer

 I was wondring if anyone would be willing to send me a recipe to 
make some good homebew. Out here in Torrington we don't run into that 
many good recipes. I would appricate any help.

Thanks,
     Andre R

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Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 22:44:46 -0500 (EST)
From: GuyG4 at aol.com
Subject: Justification, blowoff, and an equipment question

On the recent thread re: cost-justification of homebrewing

I tried justifying homebrew by cost.  It worked for a while, after decent
beer went over 6 bucks per 6 pack, but it just doesn't support for long. It
took my SO longer to figure it out than the regrettable fishing boat episode,
but she figured it out anyway.  She's also figured out that welfare is too
expensive, weapons are too expensive, etc.  Fortunately, her hobby is
quilting, where she buys perfectly good fabric at several bucks per yard,
cuts it up into little bits, sews it back together, and then 2 or three years
later, it keeps someone else warm in the winter.  So, remember, relationships
are give and take.  Find a weakness, and exploit it!  Keep brewing!

Al K. says he cannot trace a single infection to a bad blowoff tube.

Well, I fought an infection a couple of years ago.  I couldn't find the
source anywhere. I sanitized everything twice, changed siphons, etc. Those of
you who have had this problem know what a cast iron sonova--- well, I finally
bought a glass blowoff tube. It's made by JT's or somebody, it's 1/2 inch
inside diameter, and works great.  I can sanitize it by boiling if I want.
 Don't use pellet hops without sieve-ing them out, cause the tube may plug,
generating horrible stuff, but I don't worry about my blowoff anymore.

A question on equipment:  I've a yen to stop siphoning from my boiling kettle
into the carboy, and would like to upgrade to a counterflow chiller.  I'd
like to attach the chiller  to a valve, installed on my big enamel on steel
canner. Has anyone else done this?  Can the steel in such a kettle hold
threads, or should I go for a bulkhead fitting with a drain on the inside and
a valve on the outside?  Yes, I am scrounging, looking for a keg, but I am
concerned about the heat transfer properties of SS, so I'm designing for the
stuff I've got.  Any advice would be appreciated.

GuyG4 at aol.com
Guy Gregory
Lightning Creek Home Brewery
My wife introduces me as her "first husband"  

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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:06:54 -0500
From: kbjohns at peakaccess.net
Subject: Mash Efficiency / Stout

Rob Kienle asked about efficiencies for a stout recipe where he looked for
a gravity o 1.072 using 30 lbs of grain for a 12 gal batch

Rob, you got a total extraction rate of 25.5 pts per lb per gal. using a
total of 30 lbs of grain & adjuncts for a 12 gal batch and you were looking
for a 1.072 OG 

>From pale ale malt (since you use a similar system to me) you should get 31
to 34, depending on brand and lot. I'd expect about 10 - 15 pts per lb for
the dark grains

pale ale 20 X 32 = 640
dark	   7 X 12 =  84
flaked	   3 X 25? = 75
Total	          = 814/12 gal = OG of 66.5

You didn't say how low your OG was. but the above is about what I would
expect approximating your recipe



Bob
Precision Brewing Systems URL http://www.wp.com/hosi/pbscat.html

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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 07:36:44 -0600
From: Randy Lee <rjlee at imation.com>
Subject: Tank connections

welding a coupling into the side of a tank works ok for industrial
things, but if I did that, our inspectors would have a bird. Threads are
seriously hard to clean.

The old sanitary couplers where the bevel seat kind. They have threaded
*outsides* and the seating surface is a conical bevel. Even these
threads prove to be very difficult to clean (and the bevel can be
problematic). The preferred sanitary connection (at least in the States)
is the TriClover clamp design (otherwise known as tri-clamp). This is a
very easy clamp design. Fast on and off. Parts are readily available
(even in scrap if you're in Dairy Country).

As long as you're welding, I'd put on this sort of clamp system rather
then mess around with threads.

Randy Lee
Viking Brewing Company
Dallas, Wi.

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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:28:23 +0000
From: "Ken Smith" <mail.iserv.net at mail.iserv.net>
Subject: Mississippi Micro

Hello All!!

I have a friend going down to Mississippi (Jackson to be specific). 
He has agreed to bring me back a six pack of beer from there. I am 
not familiar with the local micros there and he knows nothing about 
beer. So, if anyone has any suggestions for local or regional brews 
from that area. I am most interested in British style pale ales, 
stouts and porters. Please reply via E-mail... Thanks!

Ken Smith

Britten & Smith Brewing VyLtd

ksmith at 2trak.com


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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:54:30 -0500
From: Vicky Rowe <vrowe at us.ibm.com>
Subject: Where are you?

And others as well.  Notice a nice pattern here?  We know where these
brewers are from.  It might help us understand their problems or results,
it helps foster a sense of community, and you might even discover a fellow
brewer down the road that you didn't know.  More and more are doing this,
but the majority still don't.  So, this is it, my semi-annual request that
we all include our location at the end of our posts.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943.

Good idea Jeff. Here's me:

Vicky Rowe in Youngsville, NC, just north of Raleigh
Email:
IBM:        vrowe at us.ibm.com
Home:    rcci at mindspring.com

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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:00:54 -0500
From: Vicky Rowe <vrowe at us.ibm.com>
Subject: Justify your expenses

Alan McKay said:

Make some compromises.  Do some of the yucky, boring, female things, and don't
complain when she makes you do them.

Afterall, isn't your beer worth it?  ;-)

 -Alan

Hi, Alan. Just so you know, one of my favorite yucky, boring female things to
do is brew up
a new batch of mead, melomel or horilka. Some of us brewers *aren't* guys, ya
know.

Just thought you might be interested.........


Wassail!

Vicky Rowe
  Notes Administrator, Merrill Lynch Server Farm
"No good deed ever goes unpunished" --Unknown

Email:
IBM:        vrowe at us.ibm.com
Home:    rcci at mindspring.com

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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:07:52 -0500
From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Where are you?!!

Jeff Renner suggested it would be nice if posters to the HBD included where
they are from; he said it could foster a sense of community.

Nice thought.

Another advantage is it could help reduce the amount of personal attacks
seen on this forum, knowing someone could lock and load and come looking
for you :-)

Signed: Randy from somewhere in the U.S.A.


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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:33:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Joe Rolfe <onbc at shore.net>
Subject: Re: Veggie aroma in the beer/wort


just form my past experiences, and looking at beer with this
type of aroma....with a scope...

some can be from the hops used..old/mildewed from improper storage

i have never had HSA problems that i could directly relate back to 
	improper handling of hot wort...

most often it has been the result of a defective fermentation, slow start
	from poor health on the yeasts behalf, and improper cleaning
	on the last batch....the result was wort spoilers...for those
	that have a scope - they are mobile short rods with a tendency to
	for short chains....once you see them and commit these bugs and the
	results to memory, you will never forget it...almost as impressive
	as the results from a pedio....


good luck
joe

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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:24:01 -0500
From: kathy <kbooth at scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us>
Subject: Jeff Renner's request-I  2nd

If posters would add their name & location I would appreciate it. 

 If your email address is doctored to avoid spamm, please put "no email"
as it discouraging  to type a response and have it bounce.  Maybe even
"unfriendly" as posting seemingly invites conversation. 

Also, if the email address were on the left border, it would facilitate
my emailing from my Netscape 3.0 as

kbooth at waverly.k12.mi.us 

Cheers, jim booth, lansing, mi and thanks Jeff!


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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 97 09:49:59 -0500
From: Paul Edwards <pedwards at iquest.net>
Subject: Re: bottling yeasts

Al wrote about Belgian beer yeasts:

>So, based upon the two dozen or so breweries for which I know with quite
>a bit of certainty as to whether they filter, bottle-condition with the
>primary yeast, or bottle-condition with a different yeast, about a third
>that we get in the US are filtered (like Rodenbach).  Of the rest I only
>know of Orval to be using a different yeast than the fermentation yeast.

To amplify a bit on this:

What I was told on a visit to & private tour of the Orval brewery in 1995 
is that the 1 week primary fermentation (in open fermeters in a closed 
"clean room" with video monitors) is done with a single strain of a 
saccharomyces yeast.  A blended culture of several strains (3 or 4)of 
unnamed types is added for the three week secondary fermentation (in 
closed, horzontal SS tanks w/ blow-off hoses).

Then at bottling, a dose of "liquid candi" is added along with some of 
the primary yeast.  The bottled beer is conditioned for 6 weeks at 59 deg 
F before releasing. Yeast recovered from the brewery is sent to a convent 
where it is pressed into "Trappiste Tablets", which are sold by the nuns 
to support their Order.

Although my host/guide (Director of Marketing, M. Francois Harenne, a 
very gracious and hospitable man, BTW) didn't say specifically say that 
Brettaanomyces was one of the bugs added for secondary, he did say that 
one of the yeast strains added at that time had something like a 98 
percent attenuation characteristic, which would lead me to believe, along 
with Orval's unique taste, that it is indeed a Brett yeast.  Given the 
ptiching schedule and use of multiple strains, I think we'd be 
hard-pressed to clone this beer very closely.  I've used the bottle dregs 
from stuff I brought home. I made a decent beer, but it wasn't that close 
to the real deal.

Now, the highlight of this visit wasn't the brewery tour (which was 
incredible, to be sure), but drinking a properly cared for and aged (at 
59 deg F continuously since the beer's "birth") two-year-old bottle of 
Orval from a pre-war, hand-blown Orval crystal chalice. It just doesn't 
get any better!

- --Paul


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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:27:50 -0600
From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Subject: RE: Bottle Storage

From: "Mike Palma" <mikepalma at hotmail.com>

>Any other ideas/suggestions?  Thanks in advance.

Mike,  I get boxes from my grocery store.  They have a method where the
wine and liquor bottles are put on the shelves, and the empty boxes are
put in front of the store near the cashiers.  When someone buys grocerys
with a lot of glass, or many liquor bottles, the bagger boy runs up and
gets an empty box.  They will gladly give you some if you ask.

Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu


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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:46:04 -0800
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Subject: Cabbages and HSA / bubblegum & Brettanomyces

     Hi all,
     
     Alan writes in that he experienced a strong cabbage smell while 
     pasteurizing an infected batch, and therefore attributed the aroma to 
     hot side aeration (HSA).  I think that there is a flaw in this 
     conclusion.
     
     HSA causes oxidation of the wort, which will impart cardboard (and 
     sometimes sherry) aromas and flavors to the beer.  It can also 
     diminish the malt flavor of a beer (because malty tasting melanoidins 
     are oxidized).
     
     The cabbage smell you experienced was most likely caused by the 
     invading bacteria.  When you heated the beer, you drove off volatile 
     compounds, thus intensifying the aroma.
     ----------------------------------
     Al K. writes about bubblegum being caused by the yeast Brettanomyces.  
     This is not in line with my experience.  While I totally agree that 
     bubblegum is caused by yeast, I have fermented with Brett., and the 
     resulting beer was not at all bubblegummy.
     
     Many subspecies of Saccharomyces yeast can produce bubblegum aromas 
     (many Weizen strains and wild strains).  Yeasts that do not normally 
     produce bubblegum aromas can make it if they are abused 
     (under-pitched, unaerated, high fermentation temp...).
     
     To my nose, Brett. contributes an earthy kind of character that some 
     describe as "horsy."  I am friends with a person that spends time with 
     horses and also brews, and she doesn't think Brett character is at all 
     "horsy."  Perhaps that term was used by someone who had never been in 
     a barn, and imagined that's what it was like, and now others use it, 
     too.  Just a theory.
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)
     

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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:57:14 -0800
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Subject: Extract Kits

     Hi all,
     
     While reading through a homebrew catalogue the other day, I noticed 
     something that disturbed me.  The catalogue was from a company that I 
     consider to be good, and I'm sure that many novices trust the info 
     that they get from these folks.
     
     Several of their *extract* kits contained unmalted adjuncts, like 
     flaked barley and oats.  I would have thought this quite appropriate 
     in a pLambic (pseudo-Lambic) kit, but these kits were for stouts!
     
     Every now and then somebody writes into this digest with a recipe that 
     will put starch into the final beer.  Perhaps this practice is so 
     widespread because respected distributors encourage it!
     
     If any homebrew shop operators are reading this, I ask you to review 
     your kits and ensure that the ingredients are all appropriate.  
     Starchy beer is seldom good.  Haze and infection are all but 
     guaranteed.
     
     Have fun!
     
     George De Piro  (Nyack, NY)

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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:04:38 -0800
From: Kit Anderson <kitridge at bigfoot.com>
Subject: RE:pH test strips

> 
> Hi from the North everyone, could someone please send me information on
> which ph test strips to use for all grain brewing (i'm just starting out)
> and where to get them?  I'm in southern Ontario, but any where in the world
> via mail order is fine.  Please send me their phone # or e-mail and product
> # if possible.
> 
> Thanks   Rob Moed

ColorpHast is the premium brand. They are made in Germany by Merck and
available from VWR Scientific. 1-800-932-5000. Part# EM-9582-3. Price is
$11.80/100. Get the narrow range pH 4-7.

Tell them you are a company. Make up a name.
- -- 
Kit Anderson				ICQ# 2242257
Bath, Maine				<kitridge at bigfoot.com>
		
"I had the right rib, but it musta been the wrong sauce" - Dr. John


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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 97 12:44:17 CST
From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: Blowoff hoses

There has been some discussion lately of blowoff hoses, whether or not they can
be a source of infection, and, if they are, how to clean the hose.

I have to doubt, along with Al K., that they are a significant risk of causing
infection but must concede to Dave Burley that foam receding from the blowoff
hose could fall back into the fermenter and carry bugs with it.  However, if
it does this it would only be from the first few inches if the tube, since, as
Al points out, the bugs don't move on their own.  This being the case, it would
seem that only the easily reachable first few inches of the blowoff hose need
be thoroughly cleaned and sanitized.  There would seem to be no need for
scrubbing the entire length of the hose.

I am not going to worry about it.

John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com

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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 14:05:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Small Change <schd at pluto.njcc.com>
Subject: PALE ALES CALL FOR ENTRIES, DEADLINE DEC. 4, 1997

From: Kent Brehm, President PALE ALES
My Fellow Homebrewers,

	On behalf of PALE ALES, I would like to invite you to enter our
competition "Le Premier Spectacle De Houblon du Monde" - (The Hoppiest
Show on Earth).  Many homebrew and craft brewing businesses were kind
enough to donated more than 60 prizes for the competition.  The sponsor
and prize list follows this invitation. 

   For your convenience, styles guidelines, downloadable entry forms and
bottle labels can be found at our homepage/website:
www.angelfire.com/biz/paleales.  Please visit and check out the links to
our sponsors.  We update this site on a regular basis and will announce
our winners immediately following the final round, BOS judging.

      You are welcome to come to Triumph on Monday, Dec. 8 for the awards
presentation, "Bitterest Beer Face Contest" [a special batch brewed
extremely hoppy, just for the occasion!] and meet the Best of Show (BOS)
panelists. Such notable people as Jim Parker, Director of AHA, Ed Busch
[the man who made homebrew legal in New Jersey], Lew Bryson [of the Malt
Advocate and Ale Street News], Adam Rechnitz [part of a team that
legalized brewpubs in NJ], and a number of other folks involved in the
brewing industry.  This should be a fun time as the "Bitterest Beer Face
Contest" will be digitally recorded and prizes awarded.  Expect door
prizes galore.

THE RULES.

	Entry Deadline is Dec. 4th, 1997. Entry fees are $5 each for the
first two entries and $2.50 each for subsequent entries.  Make your check
payable to PALE ALES.  All 28 styles of beer, Meads and Ciders will be
judged, incl. two special categories for Red and White Wines. We reserve
the privilege to collapse categories.  Brewers may enter as many
categories, as often as they wish, provided the entries are from different
recipes.  Send two (2) 10-14oz, brown or green glass bottles only for each
entry.  Bottles and caps must be free of any identifying markings or
graphics.  Grolsch style bottles are not acceptable.  Bottle
identification tags should be attached to the bottles by rubber bands. Do
not use glue or tape.  If you would like your score sheets returned,
please attach a SASE to your entry.  Score sheets can be picked up at
Princeton Homebrew after the competition.

	Mail entries to: Princeton Homebrew, 82 Nassau St. #20, Princeton,
NJ 08542.  ###

UPDATE 11/20/97 OF SPONSORS-PRIZES
Alan Moen Master Brewear-Ale Bonding & Invent. of Light Beer shirt
Alchemist & Barrister-$50 Gift Certificate
Ale Street News-1 yr. subscription, 1 Long-Sleeve ASN T-shirt
American Brewers Guild-One Homebeer making Course
Beer Notes-One-Year Subscription to each Category Winner
Boston Beer Co.-1 Large Sweatshirt
Brew Magazine-One Year Subscription
BrewCo-A BrewCap System, incl. hose brush
Brewing Techniques-Subscription & Brewers' Market Guide
BrewTees-2 Homebrew T-shirts
C&C Distributing-Four 5 gal. Ball Lock Kegs
Cherry Hill Home Brew- $50 Gift Certificate
Cindy Renfrow-Signed Copy of  "A Sip Through Time"
Climax Brewing Company-55lb DWC Pale Malt-Philchill Fittings
Crisp Malting Company-2- 55lb bags of Crisp Pale
Crosby & Baker-$50 Gift Certificates
Dock Street Brewing Co-Set of 6 Pint Glasses
Double Springs Homebrew S. -2 Jumping Frog Jubilee T-shirts, $25 gift 
Down East Books-3 copies of "What's Brewing in New England"
Edme-5 cans of Maris Otter unhopped malt
Fermntap-Fermatap, Carboytaps & Siphontaps, Bottle Opener
Flying Fish Brewing-55lb Dewolf Cosyns Pale Malt
High Point Brewing-1 Barrel SS Jacketed Grone Kettle
Highlander Homebrew Supplies-Best Bitter Ingred. Kit
Homebrew Unlimited-$50 Gift Certificate
Hop Union-60 oz. Hops pellets
Independence Brewing-6 pint glasses & 2 T-shirts
Jack Schmidling-One Gott EASYMASHER door prize
John I Haas Inc.-3 X-Large T-shirts
Johnston Assoc. Int'l-"Brewpub Explorer of the Pacific Northwest"
Knight Dreams Comics-$50 Gift Certificate
L. D. Carlson-$100 Gift Certificate
Liquid Bread, Inc.-6 Carbonators and 3 Tote bags
Lone Mountain Designs-Brewery & Microbrewery  US Maps
Malt Advocate Magazine-Two/2-year subscriptions
Merchant du Vin-EAST-Glassware, Sweater, and bar towels
Morris Hanbury-3-2oz. Plugs of each variety of hops they sell
Pat Anderson-"Using your Cornelius Keg Draft System"
PNA-2 doz Nonik Glasses-Fullers,5Smith & Turner-1L Stuck Mugs 1L
Princeton Homebrew-$50 Gift Certificate
Productive Concepts Int'l-Navigo Oktoberfest-CD-Rom
Red Bank Brewing-110 LB bag of Steinbach Smoked Malt
Salty Dog Gifts-Jerry Garcia Ties
Sheaf & Vine-5 copies of Homebrewing - Vol. 1
Siebel Institute-"A Textbook of Brewing" by Jean DeClerck
South Jersey Fermentors-2 Cases of liter Growlers
Spagnols Wine & Beermaking Supplies-Vino Dela Vita Wine Kit
Terhune Orchards-Certificate for 5 gal. Apple Juice
The Brewceller  at  Joe's Mill Saloon-1/2 bl.keg, w-ball valve
The Brewer's Apprentice-$50 gift certificate
Triumph Brewing Co.-Dinner for two
Valley Mill-One Valley Mill
Vanberg & DeWulf-A Case of Duval
Vinotheque-1 Wine Making Kit, Grab Bag of Goodies
Walnut Creek CDROM-Beer Homebrewing Guide CDROM
Weyerbacher Brewing-2 cases of variety pack & T-shirt
Wild Goose Brewery-2 sweat & 2 short sleeve shirts
Wyeast Labs-12 Assorted Wyeast Packs & 1 T-shirt
Zuckerman-Honickman, Inc.-one 5 gal.carboy
Zymotic Importers-2 Cider Kits and 1-10lb. bag of Maris Otter


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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 97 19:41:53 UT
From: "C&S Peterson" <CNS_PETERSON at classic.msn.com>
Subject: Upward facing manifold

HBDers -

A few weeks back someone posted success with facing the slots of their 
manifold upward instead of downward (toward the bottom of the mash tun).  
While I don't doubt the truthfullness regarding the poster's results, I can 
say that it did not work well for me.  I found the upward facing slots 
entrained air, did not clear despite significant recirc (it did eventually 
clear after several gallons were run into the kettle), and had lower 
efficiency (about 29ppg vs my normal 30ppg).    I should say that I use a 10 
gallon Gott, with a square shaped 1/2" copper manifold, with about 3 slots per 
inch.

This results of this little experiment (if you can call it that) were 
certainly not disasterous, but IMHO not as good as downward facing slots.  

Just a datapoint on the homebrew highway,

Chas Peterson
Laytonsville, Md


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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 97 13:32 PST
From: cburns at egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Subject: re: Boiling Specialty Grains

Mike asks for clarification regarding the boiling of specialty grains in 
hbd#2562.

Mike, Virtually every text on home brewing recommends against boiling 
specialty grains due to the potential for extracting unwanted tannins from 
the grain husks. I would quote the books/pages but I'm at work now (shhhhsh) 
and don't have the books with me. The common recommendation is to bring a 
few (2-3) gallons of water to 170F, place the cracked grains in a muslim bag 
into the pot and let them steep for about 30 minutes. Gently squeeze the bag 
to drain out the color and flavored water in the grains and then remove it 
completely from the kettle. 

Bring to water to a boil, turn off the heat, add extract and stir until all 
dissolved, THEN turn the heat back on. Bring to boil, add bittering hops and 
proceed with rest of boil according to recipe.

I highly recommend that you read a good beginners text. I personally started 
with Dave Miller's "Brewing the Worlds Great Beers" and then went on to his 
"Handbook of Homebrewing". I recently picked up a copy of Al K's book, 
Homebrewing Volume I and am very impressed with how its organized. It 
actually gets the reader through a first batch in the first 20 or so pages, 
then adds several hundred pages of much more indepth explanations of the 
process and materials. I highly recommend it to any extract brewer, 
beginning or experienced as it contains a nicely organized reference to lots 
of questions.


Charley in N.Cal


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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 17:58:45 -0500
From: Mike Maag <maagm at rica.net>
Subject: O2 Safety

A couple of HBD's ago, someone asked about safety considerations regarding
oxygen use.  Oxygen (O2), decreases the ignition temperature of anything
that will burn. (things catch on fire easier).  O2 also can cause things
which no not normally catch fire, catch fire.
So, if oxygen leaks, it can be a fire hazard.  O2, itself, will not burn.
So it is not a flammable gas.  The precautions you take to keep from
wasting O2, ie, checking connections with soapy water, will help prevent
problems.  Also, if you oxygenate your wort at a high rate for a long time,
you could get an O2 inriched atmosphere at the area within a couple feet of
the vessel.  What can happen?  After a few minutes of wort oxygenation
while you stand beside the vessel, your cotton shirt adsorbs some O2 and
there is an O2 inriched atmosphere at your chest area.  You are smoking a
cig and the ash falls on your chest.  Your shirt could catch
fire..(conditions would have to be "just right",  but with my luck..)
So, don't get an ignition source near O2 and something which will burn in
an O2 inriched atmosphere, and you should be OK.  Of course, all the other
precautions re the use of compressed gasses apply (securing the cylinder,
cracking the valve before attaching the regulator, turning on the regulator
slowly, facing the regulator dials away from your face when you turn on the
gas,.. etc).  Any questions, feel free to email.
Cheers, Mike 8*)


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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 16:23:09 -0800
From: Racso Lesiam IV <dhcous at pacbell.net>
Subject: Nitrogen Dispensing

Greetings,

I've been brewing for about 5 years.  Been kegging for about 4.5 years.
Now, I would like to get into mixed gas dispensing (i.e., nitrogen+co2)
using a "shear" or "stout faucet"--but can't seem to find much
literature on the subject.  I'd like to get as much info on the subject
as I can before I purchase a nitrogen tank, regulator, and a tap.  Heck,
I don't even know what type of tap to get.  Banner sells a few different
kinds as presented in their ads in BT.  I really love the way APA and
ESBs come out when dispensed in this manner.  I would like to make beers
similar to Pyramid DPA or Moylen's ESB.  Help.

Cheers,

Racso


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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:52:16 -0500
From: "Michael E. Dingas" <dingasm at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Bottle Storage

Mike Palma inquires about Bottle Storage.

I recently organized my bottles and was surprized to discover almost 20 =
cases! Friends have been really helpful in acquiring them and provided =
the 6-pack holders, too. I use copier paper boxes (hold 10 reams of =
paper) to store my bottles. Each box conveniently hold a case with a =
little exra room besides. The lids help keep the dust out and I never =
place dirty bottles in the boxes. Boxes provide the convenience of =
stacking in an unassuming corner.

mike

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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 97 17:16:16 -0800
From: brian_dixon at om.cv.hp.com
Subject: Re: fermenter CO2 to carboy

>>Connect a piece of tubing from the air lock on top of the primary 
>>fermenter and run it over into the empty carboy.
>>
>>By the time primary fermentation is pretty much over and it is time to

>>rack the brew to the carboy, the carboy should be full of CO2.
>>Right?

>That's an interesting idea you have. I seem to recall that fermentation
>gases (CO2) can also carry with it some undesirable odors, so you may
>just want to "flush" your carboy with some CO2 from your CO2 tank. The
>CO2 that you buy is "scrubbed" and filtered, and in the long run wont
>cost you very much...
>

I've long been concerned about not being able to easily flush the
secondary with CO2 prior to racking into it, and wished to heck that
Williams or someone sold a simple trigger-type device for spraying CO2
into carboys, bottling buckets etc.  Any ideas on that one anyone?

Anyway, piping the CO2 from the primary into the secondary to pre-flush
it with CO2 sounds like a good idea, and I wouldn't be too concerned
about the "undesirable odors" and such.  I mean, where did they come
from in the first place?  Also consider the fact that new CO2 from the
freshly racked beer will flush it anyway.  The purpose of the primary's
CO2 being in the secondary is just so that accidental aeration won't
take place during the racking.  The racking process itself mechanically
causes CO2 to be released from the beer anyway, so the above mentioned
procedure is just insurance anyway.  BTW, one thing I have been doing is
racking to a secondary at that magic moment that occurs after the yeast
begins settling out and the airlock perks are slowing down (maybe 5 to
10 seconds between perks) and before the primary fermentation has
_really_ finished (perks 30+ seconds apart).  This procedure not only
causes the usual release of CO2 during the racking, but also assures me
that the fermentation is active enough during the beginning part of the
secondary fermentation to produce CO2 for flushing out the head space in
the secondary.  Waiting too long before racking may accidentally leave
plain ol' air on top of the beer for longer than you like, especially if
your goal is that of conditioning the beer in the secondary ... now if
we just had that darn CO2 sprayer like I mentioned in the first place,
it'd be super easy to just flush with CO2 at all critical stages or
transfers (primary to secondary racking, secondary to bottling bucket
racking, quick squirt across the tops of all those bottles you just
filled etc.).

Brian


 .......................................................................

Item Subject: WINMAIL.DAT
Couldn't convert Microsoft Mail Message Data item to text at a gateway.

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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 21:24:15 -0400
From: ajdel at mindspring.com (AJ)
Subject: Oxygen and Yeast

In #2562 Al wrote
>AJ pretty much proved that you can't overoxygenate wort.  He posted
>this about a year and a half ago.

I think that statement in isolation is bound to stir controversy. If I
recall correctly there were a few things at issue. One was that I was
unable to kill yeast by holding them at high levels of dissolved oxygen
(200-400% of saturation) - they just kept multiplying. Note that this was
one experiment with one strain (Wyeast London, I think). In a second
experiment, yeast (I think it was Wyeast Czech Pils this time) were
observed to consume oxygen at an amazing clip once their densities got high
enough. Again, relying on memory, cell counts above about 10E6/ml resulted
in reduction of the DO of wort from saturation (8 mg/L) to less than 1 mg/L
in about half an hour. Third is that if wort is oxygenated to hundreds of
percent of saturation oxygen will escape to the air at a rate proportional
to the difference between wort DO partial pressure and atmospheric O2
partial pressure which means that DO levels will drop most rapidly at first
and then approach 100% DO more slowly. The yeast are, of course, consuming
oxygen at the same time.

Taken together these things together I reason that you probably cannot ruin
your beer by running pure O2 into the wort to the point where the DO level
gets up to several hundred percent if you leave it alone thereafter. If, on
the other hand, you maintain a high oxygen level for a prolonged period of
time you will hold the yeast in growth phase, your beer will be full of
growth phase metabolites and it will not be very pleasant to drink. This is
exactly what you do when you make a starter i.e. keep the O2 level high so
as to maximize cell mass production. I recommend that anyone interested
grow his next starter by keeping the O2 level high for a period of a day or
so. Give it a hit every half hour throughout the day. Then decant the some
of the broth and taste it.

Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore.



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Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 03:09:53 -0500
From: "David Root" <droot at concentric.net>
Subject: PH strips and Party Star Parts

Rob Moed asks about pH strips.  Try Niagara Tradition in the 
Buffalo area.  Email ntbrew at localnet.com or 1-800-283-4418
I am a very satisfied customer.  They have almost everything,
and prices are right.  They might also be able to get Party Star
tap parts.

David Root  Droot at concentric.net  Lockport NY


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Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 09:27:39 +0500
From: "Keith Royster" <keith at ays.net>
Subject: mead carbonation level

Just a quick, slightly non-brew related question:  I have made my 
first mead, and it turned out better than expected!  I have kegged it 
with the intent of force carbonating it and then CP_bottle filling 
some bottles for XMas gifts.  What is the typical carbonation level, 
in volumes of CO2, for a sparkling mead?  TIA!

Keith Royster - Mooresville/Charlotte, North Carolina

email: keith at ays.net
http://www.ays.net/brewmasters -Carolina BrewMasters club page 
http://www.ays.net/RIMS -My RIMS (rated COOL! by the Brewery)
http://www.ays.net/movingbrews -pumps and accessories for advanced homebrewers

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