HOMEBREW Digest #2638 Mon 16 February 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Victory-Hopdevil (Jon Ingram)
  Sucrose Alternative to Distilled Water (Duane Hale)
  Hop variety & diacetyl ("jpsully")
  Dammit, Jim... No YEE HAAA Jethro (ThE HoMeBrEw RaT)
  Palexperiment - Update (John Varady)
  Hallelujah!,Roasted Barley,Linguisticaly speaking ("David R. Burley")
  Soapy Taste ("Eric Schoville")
  Victory Beers (David Houseman)
  R.I.M. System ("James Johnson")
  opps (Jason Henning)
  Homebrewing in Taiwan ("Alex Aaron")
  yeast storage, stuck-on labels ("Ray Estrella")
  Submitted for your approval . . . (Matthew Arnold)
  Lite load ("Scott Church")
  Re: yeast storage/what is autolysis ("Steve Alexander")
  don't boil your O2 caps (AlannnnT)
  Beer Poisoning ("Eric Fouch")
  re: Wort aroma + boilovers ("C.D. Pritchard")
  re: mashout & extraction efficiency ("C.D. Pritchard")
  Gibberellic acid ("Dr. Dwight A Erickson")
  Re: mashout temps (Scott Murman)
  Buttered Pilsner... ("Robert J. Waddell")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 01:29:12 -0500 From: Jon Ingram <jgi105 at psu.edu> Subject: Victory-Hopdevil After seeing the comments about Victory's Hopdevil I just had to add my own. I am not usually an IPA drinker, I've always prefered darker beers. However, this is one of the best beers I have ever had. I must also recommend their Storm King Stout, It's a very Big Imperial Stout which is also an excellent example of the style. I hope the guys at Victory keep on brewing excellent beers.-Jon Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 00:04:57 -0800 From: Duane Hale <dhale at gte.net> Subject: Sucrose Alternative to Distilled Water In reference to the "yeast storage in distilled water" thread, an alternative method is to store the yeast in a 10% sucrose and water solution (1.040 OG) that has been sterilized beforehand in a pressure cooker as advocated in Pierre Rajotte's "First Steps in Yeast Culture: Part One". Rajotte states that some of Hansen's (of Carlsberg fame) cultures had been reanimated after 47 years of storage. Personally, I have only attempted this on 1-year-old cultures, but they were revived with no problems. The way I do it is to pressure cook the 1.040 sucrose solution in test tubes, vials, or any other small jars that are handy. Then, when I am ready to start preparing my starter for the next brew, I take a swollen Wyeast packet and following proper sanitation procedures, I inoculate each sucrose tube with a needle full of yeast liquid. After all tubes are inoculated, I dump the rest of the yeast packet in the starter flask along with the starter wort. I label the tubes and store them in a cool, dark place until I decide I want to use that particular yeast again. The one problem that Rajotte and I have experienced with this method is the evaporation of the water over time if the vials or test tubes don't seal well, which supposedly causes damaging osmotic pressure changes on the yeast cells. And, similar to the experiences of Steve Alexander using the distilled water method, there are very few yeast cells that survive, so it does take a few step-ups and time to get a good quantity of yeast ready for pitching. Even with the minor problems of using this method, to me there is no simpler, surer way to store many different kinds of yeast for extended periods of time. IMO, the advantage of the sucrose solution over the distilled water storage solution is that the yeast are kept in an osmotic environment that is more like the one the yeast seem to be the happiest in, beer. Another advantage of the table sugar method is that the ingredients, tap water and sugar, are readily available in every household. Of course, YM and preferences MV, but if it's good enough for Emil Hansen, it's good enough for me. Duane Hale Fuzu's Fuzzy Fluxion Homebrewery Lacey, WA Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 98 08:54:10 PST From: "jpsully" <jpsully at erols.com> Subject: Hop variety & diacetyl Hi all, Please tell me if I'm misinformed. Is it true that some hops can lead to excess diacetyl in finished beer? I was told, and am sceptical, that Saaz hops have been known to cause elevated levels of diacetyl in finished beer. Now I do taste some in Urquell, but I assumed it was developed mostly from malt constituents and yeast strain which don't completley get rid of it. I was told this by someone who is pretty knowledgable, but it doesn't sound right to me. And even if true, wouldn't a diacetyl rest, a strong diacetyl chomping yeast strain, and low AAL levels effectively counteract it? Please say it ain't so - I hate to hear a good hop maligned! Joe Sullivan Boston, Mass Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:16:39 -0600 From: ThE HoMeBrEw RaT <skotrat at wwa.com> Subject: Dammit, Jim... No YEE HAAA Jethro Lurk Mode off.... Mr. Moline Wrote: > Enter one beer...the HopDevil....cost, if last years prices >remain....$105.......send no personell, hence no other costs....(like you >won't be there anyway!).... > I will state this...I will personally buy the entry of this fine brew into >the GABF this year if you will provide the keg, and get it to the >distribution point. and send the bottles to the PPBT.... > Thats my opinion of your beer... > It is times like this that I remember why for the most part I started homebrewers and how much I enjoy being around them. Thanks Rob for making us all look good. -Scott ################################################################ # ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT # # Scott Abene <skotrat at wwa.com> # # http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) # # # # # # "The More I know About Beer, The More I Don't Need The AHA" # ################################################################ Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:55:00 -0500 From: John Varady <rust1d at usa.net> Subject: Palexperiment - Update The experiment has taken on a larger scope then I ever imagined, with over 40 people expressing an interest in participating. The gist is this: we all use the same exact ingredients and follow our standard procedures to see how the resulting beverage fares. A web page will be step up for us to record our brewing session and any data relevant and worth collecting. The brews will be entered into competitions and the resulting scores will be tabulated. In the aftermath, we should have a lot of data to mull over and from this we might be able to get some interesting statistics. A questionnaire was sent and here are the results of the 36 returned: 1) Should each brewer buy the ingredients local? NO 72% 2) Should we use exactly the same amount of ingredients? YES 78% 3) Should a third party be sought out to produce a "kit" that we each could purchase (hopefully at a reduced/special price)? YES 56% 4) Should the grain be milled before shipping? YES 53% 5) Should each type of malt be from the same maltster? YES 86% 6) Should we use a Pale Ale malt? YES 86% 7) Should we each use a single infusion mash at 154F? YES 75% 8) Should we mash for 90 minutes? YES 64% 9) Should we boil the bittering hops for 90 minutes? NO 53% 10) Should we use Columbus hops for bittering? YES 94% 11) Should we change the 30 minute addition of Columbus to Cascade to reduce the effects that a late of addition of such a high bittering hop can have? YES 58% 12) Should Irish Moss be optional? YES 61% 13) Should we use dry yeast to eliminate the need for a starter and the variances that can come with that? NO 56% 14) Should we use the same fermentation temperature? YES 61% 15) Should finings be allowed? YES 58% 16) Should filtering be allowed? NO 75% 17) Should we use the same method of carbonation? NO 67% 18) Should we all brew 5 gallon batches? YES 75% 19) Should we use only pellet hops? YES 53% 20) Should the grain bill be changed to 1 pound Crystal and 1 pound Munich to simplify things? NO 56% 21) Should we use Wyeast 1056 to ferment? YES 81% - --- I was really hoping that more people would be willing to use dry yeast, but that bug-a-boo will probably take some time to die. I really think we could eliminate a lot of variance in the batches by pitching an equal amount of a clean fermenting dry yeast like Nottingham from Danstar (hey, it was good enough for my '98 barley wine). Fortunately the brewers participating are fairly experienced (most over 2.5 years) and should be able to handle starters. Wyeast also now has a larger smack pack available as well. Even with the large number of participants, I will still do the necessary procurement, packaging and shipping of supplies to each brewer (rather then going to an external source). I figure the grains cost about $7.36 ($.70 x 8.2 + $.90 x 1 + $.90 x .8) and the hops about $1.80 ($.02 x 90 gm) for a total of $9.16. Shipping from PA to CA is about $9 for 12 lbs via UPS ground. I will send out email this week with more details to those involved. An interesting suggestion by Jim Poder was to put together a box of various ingredients and let the brewer build whatever beer they can from the contents of said box. Maybe in the future this would be fun to try. Specifics: The brewer will not stray from the supplied malt and hops. Each will brew using their own procedures, water, and equipment. Grain will be milled before shipping on a professional 6 roller mill. Mash temp will be held as close as possible to 154F for 90 mins. Bittering hops will be boiled for 75 mins. Final volume should be as close to 5 gallons as possible. Fermentation will be with American Ale from Wyeast and should be done as close to 65F as possible. The brewer may use irish moss and finings but may not filter. Carbonation method is left up to the brewer. ********************************************************** Name: Palexperiment O.G.: 1.054 Style: American Pale Ale I.B.U.: 39.2 Volume: 5.0 Gallons A.B.V.: 5.2% Grains/Fermentables Lbs Hops AAU Grams Min Pale Ale, American 8.20 Columbus 12.4 21.00 75 Crystal 40, American 1.00 Cascade 6.6 23.00 30 Munich, Belgian 0.80 Cascade 6.6 23.00 15 Cascade 6.6 23.00 0 Yeast: American Ale Wyeast 1056 Infusion Mash at 154F for 90 mins. Ferment 62-65F. ********************************************************** (ps - you weren't excluded gpeake at island.net, email sent bounced) John Varady http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady Boneyard Brewing The HomeBrew Recipe Calculating Program Glenside, PA ***> rust1d at usa.net Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:43:35 -0500 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Hallelujah!,Roasted Barley,Linguisticaly speaking Brewsters: Karl Lutzen - one of the two (hi Pat!) hard working and devoted HBD Janitors says on the problem of corrupted format of HBD submissions: >...... >I've been searching for a filter that I could just snag and put in place, >but every single one of them had certain limitations, plus other >non-desirable aspects. So, I wrote one.... Dave Burley's and other >folks will see their posts in a different light. Thanks!!! What a talented bunch of brewers!!! - -------------------------------------------------- Hubert Hangofer asks about making roasted barley: I have tried many different schemes over the years and they all seemed to work OK, so you shouldn't worry too much. Just watch and remove when the inside of the kernel looks OK. However, I must warn you that highly roasted (i.e. black) barley as you might use in a stout will bring about screams of "Feuer" from your significant other and other members of the family as smoke billows forth from the oven near the end. It is best to prepare this version when everyone is out of the house and you can open the windows. But it is worth it. Maybe we can cajole another HBDer who related his recent classic black malt roasting experiences to me, to share them with the collective. Hmmmm? Here's how I do it. Also see Charlie Papazian's book "New Joy ..."for some other methods. I now usually dry the grain at 375 F (190C) for about 45 minutes. You will begin to get a toasty aroma indicating the grain is dry. Then treat the grain at a higher temperature while you watch it carefully. I go to the animal food store and buy the barley. I know this is not treated with fungicides etc, as seed barley likely is. Just like coffee, use the grain shortly after you roast it. Keep it tightly covered and mill it just before use. Place 2# ( a kilo) on a baking sheet with turned up edges. Roasted Barley 45 minutes at 375F (190C) then 30 minutes at 450F (232C) until 10% of the grains' exterior are very dark and 10% are still light brown. You may wish to stir every 15 minutes or so and turn the pan 180 degrees. Toasted Barley 30 minutes at 375F and 30 minutes at 425F(218C) until light reddish in color and nutty flavor Black Barley 45 minutes at 375 and then 5 to 7 minutes at 500F (260C). The grains will begin to swell and smoke will begin to pour off. Quench it with sprinkles or sprays of water and take it outside to cool. Plan ahead. Chocolate and Black Malts - Similar to above, just remove the Chocolate earlier. Amber malt Dry at 250F for 30 minutes and then heat to 325F for 20 -30 minutes until the malt is reddish inside and has a warm biscuity flavor. - ------------------------------------ Eric Fouch asks a linguistic question: >I have always pronounced Wyeast as Y-yeast how else do >others pronounce it? "Y-east?" I have always said "Y-Yeast". > Granted, "Wyeast" is >harder to say than "Y-yeast". How wide spread is this? >Is this a Midwestern idiomatic speech My father, born in SE Ohio a long time ago, said " 'east " for yeast. This was a pretty common pronunciation I believe, and especially among old time brewers. He also called cottage cheese "smear case" (schmearkase) harkening back to the German roots of the area, I believe. > deficiency, like saying "Youse guys"? Actually, I believe this is a Brooklun speech characteristic sounding like "yousss" and the Mid-westerners used to say "yous" ( sounds like "yooze"), a much softer pronounciation. And never said "guys" in this context except to be funny, mimicking the East coasters.. My mother, was an elementary school teacher,and she corrected a student who said "yous" in addressing the class. She told the student to say "you". The student said, " But I was talking to *all* of them." - ---------------------------------------------- Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com Voice e-mail OK Return to table of contents
Date: 14 Feb 98 12:22:12 -0800 From: "Eric Schoville" <ESCHOVIL at us.oracle.com> Subject: Soapy Taste All, My significant other says that she tastes a soapy flavor in some homebrew. Upon tasting the beer myself, I can not detect any soapy flavor whatsoever. Does anyone know what this flavor could be? She must have a much lower flavor freshold than I do, to my benefit! Thanks, Eric Schoville in Flower Mound, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 12:36:42 -0500 From: David Houseman <dhousema at cccbi.chester.pa.us> Subject: Victory Beers Victory being our "local" I'm glad that Rob really likes Hopdevil. I could write "no afiliation" but I'm there too often and drink too much of their beer to not be a loose afiliate. Hopdevil is one of the beers that I buy in bottle to keep at home even though I have my own homebrew on tap. But this year I have to say that the Old Horizonal Barleywine and the Storm King Imperial Stout were even better IMHO than the Hopdevil. And the Prima Pils is certainly the flagship and a great example of the style. Now I don't like all of Victory's beers (no one can like everything) but I'd like to see all four of these at the GABF -- four golds in one year by one brewery would be a great sweep! Dave Houseman 5.2 miles from Victory Brewing Co. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:49:56 -0500 From: "James Johnson" <JaScJohnson at worldnet.att.net> Subject: R.I.M. System I've been all grain brewing now for 1yr. Have been thinking about using a R.I.M. system. I've seen one adverticed by Advanced Brewing Technology about their system. Has anyone used one. What was the out come. Would you recommend me buy one. email fine JaScJohnson at worldnet.att.net Cheers, Scott Johnson Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 20:33:46 GMT From: huskers at olywa.net (Jason Henning) Subject: opps Boy, it's hard to get away with spreading misinformation around here! The other day, I said + Mary Ann Gruber of A-B compares floor malting and Randy Lee <rjlee at imation.com> corrected me: + unless Mary Ann Gruber has changed jobs recently, she is with Briess + Malting not A-B... Nice call and thanks Randy. Cheers, Jason Henning Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:24:09 -0800 From: "Alex Aaron" <aaaron at pacbell.net> Subject: Homebrewing in Taiwan Hello to all, I'll be making visits to Taiwan to see my in-laws, and was wondering about the HB scene. If anyone has links or information regarding shops, clubs or ... let me know via private email. I'll post a summary. Thanks to all, Alex Aaron alex at checkmaster.com aaaron at pacbell.net http://www.checkmaster.com/ Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 19:32:11 -0600 From: "Ray Estrella" <ray-estrella at email.msn.com> Subject: yeast storage, stuck-on labels Hello to all, Continuing with the distilled yeast topic, Steve Alexander writes, >My concern is that I must step-up this culture repeatedly to get a >healthy sized yeast crop. Most of the yeast seem to die during storage. >I should mention that I wash or separate the yeast using water before >storage. I have since read that this cleaning should be reserved >until just before you wish revive the yeast. Steve is running into problems for a couple of reasons. Sterile Distilled Water Yeast Storage is meant to be used to keep a small, pure sample of yeast. I take one colony grown from a single yeast cell and store it in a 2-3 ml vial. This is then used the same way that yeast stored on a slant is used. The point of the technique is to keep autolysis from taking place by causing the yeast to go dormant immediately, before they have gone through a major growth and feeding stage. (Fermentation) The reason most of your washed yeast seem to die during storage, is that a good percentage was dead when you put them under water. Another big contributor is that this yeast has just finished an active life of reproducing, eating like crazy, (primary fermentation) getting starved as food supplies get scarce, friends dropping all around, (secondary fermentation) and finally mutated by alcohol, a few hearty, thick-walled cells do what they must to survive, exuding proteolytic enzymes to break down their neighbors, they turn to cannibalism. (Yeasty Donner party, your table is ready in the Burnt Rubber room) By trying to use washed yeast for long term storage you are almost guaranteed to have some autolysis already taking place. To just keep well washed yeast for a few weeks, this should be no problem. Dave Burley told me that he keeps batch-sized amounts under water with good results. You may want to contact him about his procedures. On another note, I was wondering if any one has found an easy way to get the foil-type labels off of Sam Adams bottles. I think that J.K. is getting back at us by making it impossible to clean the darn things off. Any advice? (Besides not buying the product....) Ray Estrella Cottage Grove MN ray-estrella at msn.com ****** Never Relax, Constantly Worry....Have a better Homebrew ****** Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 03:27:09 GMT From: mra at skyfry.com (Matthew Arnold) Subject: Submitted for your approval . . . I have added a nifty feature to my homebrew club's website which I think might be useful to the collective. Using Ken Schwartz's all-grain calculations, I have created two Javascript calculators. One will compute the temperature your strike water should be to reach your desired mash-in temperature. The other will calculate the amount of boiling water you need to raise your mash to the next desired rest temperature. Currently it only uses standard measurements (quarts, pounds, degrees Fahrenheit). Once I figure a few things out, I will update it so you can choose standard or metric figures. The scripts work on Netscape Navigator version 3.x and up. They _should_ also work in Internet Explorer 3.x and up, but I haven't been able to verify that yet. To get directly to the calculators, go to http://www.rackers.org/calcs.html Let me know what you think! Matt, webmaster, Green Bay Rackers Homebrewers' Club (http://www.rackers.org) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:48:27 -0800 From: "Scott Church" <schurch at gte.net> Subject: Lite load I'm a new "home brewer" who is in a wheelchair and trying to devise a system. My approach right now is to make 5 gallon batches (extract), but ferment in 2-1/2 gallon (more managable) containers. I would like to start "all-grain" brewing. Would it be possible to do the "mashing" and related processes using 2-1/2 gallons of water (for a 5 gallon batch). Is there a system that may be more condusive to my needs? (consentrated wort?) Also, is there any inequallities in spliting my wort? If so, is there a method that I should use (other than eye balling) to consistently and equally divide the wort? Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 06:37:55 -0500 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: yeast storage/what is autolysis Ray Estrella writes on my loss of viability of washed, water stored yeast ... > The reason most of your washed yeast seem to die during storage, is that >a good percentage was dead when you put them under water. Altho' it's certainly the case that washing is detrimental to the viability of cells in a yeast crop, it is also clearly the case that there is tremendous cell attrition during several months of water storage using my method. I commonly wash and repitch yeast within a few days or even a few weeks and get good results. Storing the yeast treated identically under distilled water for several months gives a dramatically poor result. Sorry Ray, but DOA isn't the diagnosis. >Another big >contributor is that this yeast has just finished an active life of reproducing, >eating like crazy, (primary fermentation) getting starved as food supplies >get scarce, friends dropping all around, (secondary fermentation) and >finally >mutated by alcohol, a few hearty, thick-walled cells do what they must to >survive, exuding proteolytic enzymes to break down their neighbors, they >turn to >cannibalism. (Yeasty Donner party, your table is ready in the Burnt Rubber >room) >By trying to use washed yeast for long term storage you are almost >guaranteed >to have some autolysis already taking place. I suspect that your argument regarding the state of cell reserves is close to the mark. I'm less impressed with the rest of thwe argument. If the cell failure mechanism is due to alcohol level rather than carbo sources, then cell wall sterol content not cell wall thickness is the issue. My feeling is that in normal gravity beers, such as I have been brewing, the yeast become dormant from lack of fermentable sugars not excessive alcohol levels. Alcohol mutation - don't think so. First I'm not aware that ethanol has a mutagenic effect on yeast at the levels we are talking about - tho' it clearly has a negative effect on cell function. As for the only surviving yeast at the end of fermentation being deviant - nonsense! Historically some breweries have repitched spent yeast for decades - perhaps longer. Second, the same yeast clearly seems to have higher viability when stored under beer rather than water - tho' I haven't performed a controlled test for this. To get the sort of cell loss that I am seeing (90%+ est) would imply a tremendous level of autolysis. Frankly the 'classic' symptoms just aren't there. Autolysis - I'm pretty wary of the explanation of autolysis that appear in the HB literature. M&BS says of autolysis - The vacuole contains several lytic enzymes (including proteases, nucleases) bounded by a cell membrane which retains these enzymes. Disintegration of the membrane is encouraged by high temps, alkaline pH, lack of nutrient, and and certain organic solvents (ethyl acetate, chloroform) and the presence of zinc salts. Autolysis of yeast in beer produces undesirable bitterness (yeast bite). Fatty acids released during autolysis are foam (head) negative. Note the lack of descriptions involving live yeast cells producing proteases or sulphur/rubbery smells. The description is that dead cells under adverse condition burst their vacuole membrane, and the once contained enzymes which were useful to the live cell some spilling out - releasing bitter oily yeast innards into the beer. Rubber-tire ale as the result of autolysis ? The tales are probably accurate but misleading. I suspect that the rubbery aromas are produced by a secondary infection, probably bacterial and anaerobic, perhaps living on the dying, lysing yeast cake. As for the rumors of mutant killer yeast cells which can somehow exude cell destroying enzymes, which magically do not destroy themselves - fairy tales. Eating the deceased and decaying is one thing; killing then eating your sleeping comrades is another. Yeast may be cannibals, but I doubt that are murderers. My suspicion is that yeast health, and particularly the cell lipid/sterol content so important to (vacuole) membranes is critical to long term distilled water storage. My second suspicion is that the highly suboptimal pH of the distilled water storage may contribute to poor viability too, and explain the apparent lower viability of my yeast in water rather than beer. Interesting that yeast during active division may well have more of the lysozymic enzymes necessary to cut thru cell walls (this 'zyme is used during cell division) - so it *might* be best to water store yeast during the stationary (non-growth) phase, but also while the yeast retain high sterol & lipid levels. A pH adjusted storaeg should help too. Would be interesting to compare viability of beer, water, and acidified water storage of yeast at various growth phases. Steve Alexander Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 08:08:23 EST From: AlannnnT at aol.com Subject: don't boil your O2 caps bernie kb2ebe Middleburgh,NY Asks about boiling Oxygen Absorbing Crown Caps Yes, they will be useless after one minute of boiling. The following is my opinion only!---Don't spam me---- If you bottle condition your beer [as many of us do], the yeast will consume some part of the oxygen in the bottle. Fix says 30%. If you bottle fill very close to the top and oxygen is less then 25% of air, plus use the foaming technique the big brewers use, you will effectively eliminate [reduce] much of the oxidation. One note, I have found that bottles filled close to the top condition slower than normal homebrew fill height. An extra few days should be needed. You can create a little bit of foaming by using a faster filler, such as Phil's or the new larger plastic filler made for wine bottle filling. Or raise the bottling bucket a little bit. Remember, just a very tiny bit of foam is enough to raise the foam to the cap. Alan Talman East Northport, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 12:42:04 -0500 From: "Eric Fouch" <fouches at iserv.net> Subject: Beer Poisoning HBD- I just read an article in the Grand Rapids Free Press about a woman in Bettendorf, Iowa who "has been accused of trying to poison her husband by lacing his beer with antifreeze." It seems like he should have noticed the extra body and flavor...... Eric Fouch Bent Dick YoctoBrewery Kentwood MI "The opinions expressed here are not necessarily those held by the rest of the Bent Dick YoctoBrewery, and should not be construed as such." Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:09:40 From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net> Subject: re: Wort aroma + boilovers Phil Sides asked, "Do people REALLY dislike the smell of boiling wort?" Definitely- my better half and both kids hate the smell. As for the wife- the time I boiled wort over on her stove and saturated the guts thereof with wort didn't help matters. It was a concentrated wort and went from a few simmering bubbles to a volcano in the 5 seconds my back was turned. She had a smelly reminder of my misadventure every time she turned the oven on since the wort got into the oven insulation. I finally had to disassemble the stove and replace all of the insulation- UGH!. Lesson well learned: never, ever turn your back on a concentrated wort which is approaching the boiling point- particularly if it's on your wive's stove. c.d. pritchard cdp at chattanooga.net http://home.chattanooga.net/~cdp/ Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:01:04 From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net> Subject: re: mashout & extraction efficiency Domenick Venezia posted: >...but we can't continue to stir the mash during the sparge. BUT, we can >increase agitation during the sparge without stirring! ...I suggest that >periodic recirulation during the sparge will increase your extraction >efficiency. I've not recicrulated while sparging- I SWAGed the highish concentration of sugar in the recirc. wouldn't extract enough sugar to make the gain worth the pain (i.e. not enough osmotic pressure). Also *if* one wants to maintain the temp. of the mash during a sparge using recirculation, you'll need either a RIMS or some means of heating the recirc. if it's a nonRIMS mash. YMMV, but the later sounds like a PITA to me for the small gain in efficiency. Why can't (or shouldn't?) one stir during the sparge. Seems to me like a batch sparge and stirring the sparge water into the grains would help- e.g. drain bed, add sparge water, stir, recirculate, and repeat. For the last cycle the recirc would also need to set the grain bed and clarify the wort. I plan on sticking an automated stirrer in my RIMS. I'm gonna use it only during the temp. boosts, but, it would at least seem to have some application during sparging. OTOH, Domenick makes a very valid point: >I also suggest that using another pound or two of grain will make this >whole discussion moot. c.d. pritchard cdp at chattanooga.net http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/ Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:05:36 -0700 From: "Dr. Dwight A Erickson" <colvillechiro at plix.com> Subject: Gibberellic acid Brewsters, In addition to being a homebrewer, I also do a lot of "organic gardening" and have used gibberellic acid in my garden (also houseplants). I think that using gibberellic acid to help sprout barley could be useful. Gibberellic acid is not (to my knowledge) actually a hormone, but it "acts like" a hormone. It is used in extremely low concentrations. If you spray it on a blooming houseplant, it will make the plant bloom more - earlier - have larger blossoms - grow better etc. In the garden, I use it on seedless grapes to make them bigger. The reason ? : 1. The grape blossoms are pollinated. 2. The seed (embryo) is begun 3. The embryo is aborted (sorry right to lifers) 4. The grape grows and matures. By spraying gibberellic acid on the grapes (three times at two week intervals) makes the grape think that the seeds are actually growing inside the fruit, so the seedless grapes grow larger (they think the seeds are still in there). Normally, seedless grapes are quite a bit smaller than seeded ones, but by spraying them with gibberellic acid, you can get them almost to the size of seeded ones. I imagine that this "hormone effect" would be responsible for better and a more even rate of germination. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 15:43:45 -0800 From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com> Subject: Re: mashout temps Steve Alexander. asks > >It's no coincidence that the recommended mashout temp. is the maximum > >before tannoid extraction becomes a problem. > > If you have a source on this I'd really like to see it. I've searched > high and low and have yet to find any critical temperature for phenol > extraction. As a rule, increasing mash temps will permit more phenol > extraction and better solubility of some of the naughtier phenols. It'd be impossible for me to remember exactly where that tidbit came from, but before you posted I thought it had come from you (Steve). How 'bout we just say it's true, and keep repeating it until it takes on a momentum of its own? Within the year we can see it mentioned in print. The key variable is obviously pH, and I'm sure temperature is secondary (or tertiary). Regarding the use of a mashout and efficiency thread which had been going on. George de Piro privately emailed me that at Seibel they were told it was possible to get "up to 10%" an increase in efficiency by mashing out. One aspect of the mashout which I had been neglecting is what George referred to as "late saccarification". By raising the mash temp., some of the remaining starch gelatinizes (explodes), and the alpha amylase which is still lying around can then chew it up. I suppose this, combined with the improved fluid properties from a higher temperature could achieve a measurable increase in efficiency for homebrew-type systems. It would depend somewhat on how much of a temperature change occurs during the mashout (150-170F vs. 155-165F for instance). I still believe that mixing helps, but it sounds like most folks are already mixing like crazy in one way or another. Scott Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 18:32:49 -0700 From: "Robert J. Waddell" <rjw at dimensional.com> Subject: Buttered Pilsner... Greetings fellow brewfolk, I've just started brewing lagers, and so far every one of them (4 now) has had a serious diacetyl problem. The most recent recipe is the "High Test" by George Fix from the little booklet of recipes that comes with a subscription to BT. If you don't have it, it goes like this: For 10 gallons: 18 lb. Durst pils 4 lb. DWC Munich 2 oz. Ultra, and 1 oz. Saaz, First Wort Hopped together & removed just before reaching boil. 2.5 oz. Spalt, and 2.5 oz. Hallertau, both for 60 minutes. Mash in at 122 F. 30 min., 140 F. for 30 minutes, 156 F. for 30 minutes, mashout at 170 F. for 15 minutes. (Iodine test was negative) Oxygenated with O2 and scintered airstone. Fermented at 46 F. Raised to 58 F. for 5 days. Lowered to 34 F. (4 F. per day). Lagered at 34 F. for 6 weeks. I used the White Labs Pilsner at 2 tubes per 5 gallons. OG: 1.059, FG: 1.012 The first time I made this I racked of the trub, and racked into a secondary after 2 weeks. It reeked of butter. A friend that has been very successful with lagers said that I should leave the trub and not rack to a secondary, so that is what I tried this time. It still tastes like a movie theater smells. I love diacetyl in an ale, but this is totally out of style in a pils. I just kegged it yesterday. Will further lagering cure this? Is there anything I can do next time to prevent this "Orvil Redenbacher" effect? I was really looking forward to brewing this style, but I'm starting to lose my enthusiasm for it. rjw I *L*O*V*E* my [Pico] system. 'Cept for that gonging noise it makes when my wife throws it off the bed at night. Women... --Pat Babcock *** It's never too late to have a happy childhood! *** ******************************************************************** RJW at dimensional.com / Opinions expressed are usually my own but Robert J. Waddell / perhaps shared. ICQ #7136012 Owner & Brewmaster: Barchenspeider Brew-Haus Longmont, Colorado ******************************************************************** (4,592 feet higher than Jeff Renner) Return to table of contents
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