HOMEBREW Digest #2657 Tue 10 March 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Wort Aeration ("Steven Jones")
  6-row malt (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Irish Moss and Unread References (Jim Bentson)
  Maltstrom, Corn sugar, Weird book, Insulating cooler top (michael w bardallis)
  Heat loss equations/Bung sizes ("Gregg Soh")
  Judges for NY City Spring Reg. Comp. (kbjohns)
  AFCHBD results (hollen)
  Re: Cats and spent hops (Jim Bentson)
  6-row ("Steve Alexander")
  hops (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
  Cleaning Sanke Kegs ("S. Wesley")
  Chlorine removal (George_De_Piro)
  Regarding Dutch beer bottle (DenBrouwer)
  Re: Mashout in cooler/Pistachio porter (Tidmarsh Major)
  1998 Green Mountain HB Comp. CANCELLED (Jeff)
  Too much molasses (Joseph.M.Labeck at brew.oeonline.com, "Jr.")
  Goldings hops ("Robert D. Dittmar")
  Re: legalities of transporting HB (HBD #2656) ("Joel Plutchak")
  Pistachios and Wyeast 1187 ("Capt. Marc Battreall")
  water treatment (Joe Shope)
  Ian Smith "crisper/cleaner filtered taste?"  3/7/98 (Vachom)
  soon to be homeless Grolsch bottles (Al & Jan Causey)
  Re: chloramines (Matthew Arnold)
  Aerator & RIMS scorching + flow rates ("C.D. Pritchard")
  re: the slow-mead myth (Dick Dunn)

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Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:48:02 -0500 From: "Steven Jones" <stjones1 at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Wort Aeration Hi all. I've been lurking for about 6 months now and I have come to anxously await each days digest. I've learned more during this time than in my prevous 18 months of brewing *blindfolded* and *handcuffed*. On the wort aeration thread, I'd like to contribute my method. I have built a 1/2 bbl 3 tier system with the boiler just 12 inches off of the floor (I have a low garage ceiling), so I have to use a pump to move my wort (chilled with an immersion chiller) to the fermenter. When I connect the inlet side of the pump to the ball valve, I leave the connection VERY SLIGHTLY loose. This causes air to be drawn into the wort stream before the pump, and by using clear vinyl tubing on the inlet side, you can see the amount of air drawn in and the turbulence created, and adjust the tightness of the fitting accordingly to prevent cavitation. As I direct the wort flow into the fermenter, it produces a 2-3 inch head of foam on it. I have regularly had lag times of 6-8 hours using a 750 ml starter, and complete fermentations (ales) in 4-6 days. I recirculate an iodophor solution thru the pump for about 15 minutes while the wort is being chilled, and have not had a problem with any contaminations. BTW, I'm a member of the State of Franklin Homebrewers club here in Upper East Tennessee (that's way, way east of Knoxville), and we have a website which you may find interesting. Check it out at http://home.att.net/~stjones1/index.htm . It is still under construction (or is that evolution?), and we have many plans for improvements. If there are any lurkers who are in our area, or visitors from outside the area, please feel welcome to join us at our meetings. Curiosity: How does one submit a post from a ship at sea? Cheers. Steve Jones <stjones1 at worldnet.att.net Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 15:20:45 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: 6-row malt In Homebrew Digest #2652 (March 04, 1998), Steve Alexander wrote >IMO 6-row belongs in the gut of a quadruped >or brewed with equal parts of rice and sold to the ignorant masses. Use >of 6-row appears to be a price compromise. I'll speak up for the use of 6-row in CAP and other recreations of indigeneous adjunct brews for historical reasons. (In private communication, Steve said that he considered including such an exception, but edited it out). Of course, today's 6-rows are not yesterday's. I suspect that before chemical fertilizers, the protein levels could well have been lower. But I've had CAPs brewed by others using domestic 2-row and German Pilsner malt and they just weren't the same. Too wimpy, somehow. Of course, the differences in our brewing techniques may have overwhelmed the malt differences. I haven't tried using domestic 2-row myself in a CAP, although I've considered it and may still. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 16:55:46 -0500 From: Jim Bentson <jbentson at htp.net> Subject: Re: Irish Moss and Unread References Al K recently wrote about the use of Irish Moss. He said: > >I wish I had my copy of Dr. Fix's new book here... I'm pretty sure this >would be in there, It is in the book i.e 'An Analysis of Brewing Techniques' on pgs 119-122. Unfortunately that discussion is less than perfect (see below) > but he was good enough to send me a copy of a paper >he had written a few years ago which described some experiments he ran >with Irish Moss. Several different varieties of IM were tried at several >different concentrations. Rehydration of the IM was done and it was >stressed that this was very important. Unfortunately, while Fix mentions such a paper in the book, he does not mention the need for rehydration of the IM in the section of book where the data is given. To give extensive data and then neglect to tell how to prepare the fining does some disservice to the reader who would like to put the test results into practice. > There were tradeoffs between >head retention and clarity and a few other factors, but my reading of >the data indicated to me that 1/8 gram per liter of *refined flakes* was >the best choice. This is where I was left unsure. In the book , Fix presents data on how different amounts of Irish Moss affect the final beer. He measured Turbidity , and comments on the resulting Form and Fermentation. He doesn't specifically define 'Form' (does he mean Foam which he does mention?) Based on the discussion in the book, it seems to be related to the head and body of the beer. Fix tested Irish Moss at levels of 1/24, 1/12 , 1/8, and 1/4 gm/liter. He estimates that 1/24 gm/liter is about 1 tsp in 5 gals. He points out that commercial usage is 1/16 to 1/8 gms/l ( 1.5tsp to 3 tsp per 5 gals) and recommends that the 1/8 gm/liter be used . This gives less turbidity than 1/12 gm/l. Based on his data both 1/8 and 1/12 are in the satisfactory turbidity range . This figure is the same that Al found in the paper. However, I would like to caution that the 'Form' rating for 1/8 gm/l is 'Slightly Below Normal'. This compares to 'Normal' for all lower dosages and 'Poor' for the higher amount of 1/4 gm/liter. Since there is some degradation in the 'Form' ratings it appears that 3tsp per 5 gal batch is actually the MAXIMUM that should be used. Based on the data given in the book it appears to me that 2 - 3 tsps per 5 gal batch would be the correct amount, which is still a lot higher than most brewing books recommend (1 tsp / 5 gals is quite commonly quoted) >(SNIP) the protein was removed as break from the extract during production, extract >batches would require less IM, right? My experiments indeed confirmed >this suspicion. > Fix goes further. He states 'Irish Moss is not recommended for protein-deficient worts. Those produced from malt syrup are an example.' .The reason is that Irish Moss has the undesirable effect of reducing wort FAN levels, leading to potentially dysfunctional fermentations in protein deficient worts. ********************************************* 2) I would like to make a request of posters. Recently I have noticed an increase in posts that start off with something along the line of 'I don't have my copy handy but I think it said.....'. This often leads to a whole series of posts correcting mistakes in "remembered" data. This then results in the original poster writing back and quoting the original and now found and read source. It would be very helpful to the rest of us if posters would refrain from using memory when they know that the data is in a reference that they have access to. If at all possible, please take the time to check the reference BEFORE posting. In the long run it saves a lot of confusion and bandwidth. Jim Bentson Centerport NY - -- Registered ICC User check out http://www.usefulware.com/~jfoltz Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 17:41:38 -0500 From: dbgrowler at juno.com (michael w bardallis) Subject: Maltstrom, Corn sugar, Weird book, Insulating cooler top Gotta agree with Dave Burley about six-row - you always hear about its unsuitability, but experience does not agree. Haven't used as a base malt in years, but mainly because Briess 2-row costs about the same and is more consistently available. Using the same base malt consistently allows one to predict more accurately the character of each brew. I do, however, use Briess specialty malts almost exclusively in my ales, and I doubt that the roasted barley or 80 deg. crystal would be much better if they were made from 2-row. Roger Protz and the other judges at the Real Ale Festival Homebrewed Real Ale Competition awarded Best-of Show to a stout brewed from all Briess malt, 2-row base & six-row crystal, RB, and black patent. I think product consistency, and a brewer's knowledge of the effects provided by each malt in his "palette" are the real issue. This knowledge is acquired through experience. Buy malt by the sack! Brew more beer! Whilst on the soapbox: It's OK to prime bottle conditioned beer with corn sugar! It is 100% fermentable. Those who prime with dry malt are doing so for romantic, not scientific or practical reasons. If your beer tastes too sweet, cidery, has an aftertaste, etc., look elsewhere- it ain't your priming sugar. Al K mentions a book by Clive La Pensee that features a practical description of home malting, it's called The Historical Companion to House-Brewing, and is available from Brewers Publications. It also has info on hop growing and processing, and a great section on herbs used in brewing. It is, to understate a bit, an unconventional work, but I recommend it. Read this book and you will see brewing from the standpoint of someone who questions everything about the process. Very entertaining. Chris Ingermann asks about using expanding foam to insulate his cooler top: Expanding foam is OK, though it is a pain in the ass to work with. I usually buy the stuff when I see it on sale (it is kinda pricey), then wait 'til I've got several jobs to do with it, and do them all at once. As mentioned previously in this forum, "Great Stuff" sticks and clogs and really can't be used a second time. I definitely recommend insulating the cooler top, though. I did my Coleman 10 gal. "beverage dispense" type cooler, and now the top is not even warm to the touch when mashing is under way. Poke a hole in each side edge of the top (maybe more on long sides) and inject a moderate blast in each. Go easy when filling the cooler top, a few voids won't hurt.. Do a couple practice squirts onto scrap paper or something to get a feel for how it flows & expands first. And yes, Chris, brewing is damn fun. Mike Bardallis Now serving Munich Helles and American IPA on draft; Polar Beer, Imperial Stout, and Barleywine in bottles. Coming soon, Munich Dunkel. All in the shadow of the big tire, Allen Park, MI _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 01:00:13 PST From: "Gregg Soh" <greggos at hotmail.com> Subject: Heat loss equations/Bung sizes I had posted a question on calculating heat loss from my mash tun and insulation. Well, I'll just answer myself and say that if I use the equations, Q = mc(theta) = kAt x temeperature gradient, I'd only get the heat energy loss at that given time and wouldn't be able to calculate true temperature drop without integration. Anyway a rough 'instantaneous' value of heat loss was used as my guide at the highest temperature when the temperature gradient thus heat loss was greatest, as to the suitability of a certain type of insulation to be used. On another note, I long while ago I remembered that someone had put up a table on the net that had the dimensions(diameters) of bungs with respect to their numbers. Is this resource still around? I can't seem to find it anymore. Anyone? Greg ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 10:29:09 -0500 From: kbjohns at peakaccess.net Subject: Judges for NY City Spring Reg. Comp. HOSI would appreciate if youd be able to help us out with judging our 7th competition on Sunday 3/22/98 If you have already responded please ignore this request. We expect close to 300 entries and will need 30 to 40 BJCP judges. In turn for you r help we can only offer Lunch, a snack & plenty of good beer after the competition, 2 free entries to this years competition and of course judging points. If you can help out please email Ken Johnsen at kbjohns at peakaccess.net. Also if you or your club can pass this on to other judges we would appreciate it Complete information can be found on the clubs web page Ken Johnsen Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 98 07:45:36 PST From: hollen at vigra.com Subject: AFCHBD results Thank you to all who participated in the Fifth Annual America's Finest City Homebrew Competition on March 7th. We had 300 entries and 46 judges who participated on Friday night and Saturday. Full results can be obtained on our web page at: http://www.softbrew.com/afchbc/results5th.htm Please join me in congratulating these outstanding brewers who placed in the Best Of Show round: Best of Show Michael Westcott - American Pale Ale No Club Indicated 1st Runnerup David Askey - Maerzen/Oktoberfest San Diego Brew Techs 2nd Runnerup Frank Leers - Sparkling Melomel Quality Ale & Fermentation Fraternity 3rd Runnerup Greg & Liz Lorton - Foreign Style Stout Quality Ale & Fermentation Fraternity dion Judge Coordinator 1998 America's Finest City Homebrew Competition Quality Ale and Fermentation Fraternity, Sponsor http://www.softbrew.com/afchbc - --- Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen at vigra.com http://www.vigra.com/~hollen Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 18:14:16 -0500 From: Jim Bentson <jbentson at htp.net> Subject: Re: Cats and spent hops Subject: Re: Cats and spent hops Andy Walsh wrote: >For all you animal lovers out there, don't despair, there are plenty more. >Maybe homebrew ingredients are toxic to other cuddly friends; why not >experiment on your cat? (be sure to report results). Dear Andy: We read your post. Are you kidding? You expect us cats to eat slimy wet hops? Get a life! We are not dumb like all those silly dogs you have been talking about. Felinely yours Red, Corkey, Sassafras,Sylvester and Ethyl The 5 Cats of Jim Bentson Lazing Our Lives Away in Centerport NY - -- Registered ICC User check out http://www.usefulware.com/~jfoltz Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 15:48:50 -0500 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: 6-row My friend, David Burley states >Actually, I have made lots of good beer of all types with 6-row when >European 2-row wasn't available and I have yet to understand >where this prejudice comes from. Having never used pale 6-row, except for malting experiments, I will admit that this is something of a prejudice. Jeff Renner also points out that 6-row, with it's additional phenolic content, may actually have an advantage over 2-row when making CAP, and other traditrional American adjunct beers. My personal aminus against 6-row is it's use in roast, crystal and ersatz-munich malts by American maltsters. I will never forget (or forgive) my discovery that British (M&F) and continental (Durst, DeWC) crystal malts have a clear clean flavor unavailable in (Briess) 6-row caramel products. It's a difference easily detected in side-by-side comparison. To their credit, I see that Briess has recently introduced 2-row caramel at 40L, 60L, 80L, in addition to their older line of 6-row caramel, roast, ?vienna?, ?munich? and 6-row pale. Schreier apparently only uses 6-row in their lighter (<30L) caramels and in their 6-row pale. As for sieved 6-row being selected for lower protein content - from the BT Market guide it appears that 6-row runs almost 2% higher protein than US 2-row, which is again 1.5 to 2% higher than brit PA malt. Continental malts mostly fall in between brit and US 2-row. I would be willing to admit that protein content is more of a british bugaboo, since the high kilning temps and single infusion regime don't permit any corrective mash rests. >I suspect a marketing ploy here to keep the barley in >British Beers British. The fact that there is a website on >British Barley clearly establishes the marketing going on here. Gee - I wonder how they were able to sabatoge my tongue ? BTW- there is an American Malted Barley Assoc(AMBA) website, And sites by several british maltster, but the british site I noted is by the prestigious institute of brewing, which is just as likely to carry notes on sorghum as barley. The fact is that IoB and British maltsters seem to take the matter of barley quality and selection more seriously than their north american counterparts. I believe that the Journal of the IoB has an annual article in barley variety tests. Note that brit malts often carry varietal information (maris otter, chariot, pipkin , halcyon, golden promise, etc) while the Briess notes I have state some generic information like 'Harrington, Klages or other AMBA approved varieties'. If I were a commercial brewer I'd like to know more rather than less about the source, quality and consistancy of my primary raw material. Steve Alexander Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 07:55:37 +0100 From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com> Subject: hops Hello brewers, I have the Zymurgy's Guide to Hops (1997 Randy Mosher) and I'm missing the specifications of the following hops. Is there somebody who can help me? Looking for: Origin, Type (Aroma, Bittering, Dual), Avg.Alpha Acid %, storage stability, usually used in ......, any comments. Bullion Magnum Early Green Thanking you in advance, Greetings from Holland, Hans Aikema Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 06:11:19 -0800 From: "S. Wesley" <sWesley at maine.maine.edu> Subject: Cleaning Sanke Kegs Hi Folks, Does anyone have experience cleaning out Sanke kegs? I have heard descriptions of commercial keg cleaners which spray cleaning solution in through the spear and drain through the gas line. I am currently using the older style of kegs with the bung in the side which I bought from my local Brewpub. These are great because I can easily drain them, inspect them and fill them. I'm a bit nervous about not being able to see what is inside and I'm also concerned about removing all of the cleanimg soultion. What materials and setup do you use for cleaning Sanke Kegs? Regards, Simon A. Wesley Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:29:30 -0800 From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com Subject: Chlorine removal Hi all, Very nice work, AJ! I love to see myths exploded! At the end of his post AJ asks if people are having any chlorine problems when using heating/aeration/ and/or time to remove chloramines. I've been to several breweries where NOTHING is done to remove chlorine from the water! The beers seemed to be free of chlorine-induced defects. How can this be? Another myth, perhaps? At one brewpub, Mickey Finn's in Libertyville, IL, the mash water is heated in the hot liquor tank and blended with the grain and cold, untreated city water at mash in (this blending occurs in the grain hydrator and is used to control the mash-in temperature). How is it that they don't have chlorophenol problems? Is the heat of mashing enough to drive off the chlorine before it can react with malt phenols? As for my experience, my tap water is chlorinated using bleach (it's a small, old water company). I have been using a carbon filter for about a year now. Before that I simply let the water stand overnight (which was sometimes only 4 hours or so). While the normally wretched chlorine smell was gone in that time, I never did test it quantitatively. AJ's numbers would suggest that some free chlorine might be left after 4 hours or so. I never had any flavor defects attributable to chlorine, however. Hmmm... Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:33:01 EST From: DenBrouwer <DenBrouwer at aol.com> Subject: Regarding Dutch beer bottle Laura asked to identify the Dutch on a beer bottle she was given: <Met de beste wesen van Brouwerij't IJ Amsterdam With the best wishes of the brewery 't Ij Amsterdam <extra speciaal ijndejaarsbier extra special end of the year beer <voorzichtig doch vastberaden uitschenken pour carefully but steady <inh.33 cl. cat.s alc.9 vol.% contents 0.33 litre (16 oz ?) category s (strong) alcohol 9% by vol <bier van hoge gisting beer of top fermenting yeast (ale) <ad usum internum for internal use (from my rusty high school Latin) <minstens houdbaar tot enid '98 can at least be kept till the end of '98 <met nagisting op fles referments in the bottle Hope this helps (this label is kind of standard for a strong ale of Belgium and the Netherlands, it doesn't give any special information regarding this particular beer) Bart Lipkens Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:48:28 -0500 (EST) From: Tidmarsh Major <tmajor at parallel.park.uga.edu> Subject: Re: Mashout in cooler/Pistachio porter Dan Thompson asks about how to do a mashout in a cooler mashtun. I usually draw off some of the first runnings (1 to 2 gallons, depending on the amount of grain) and bring it to a boil. Adding the boiling runnings back to the tun usually brings the grain bed up to around 170F. **************** Steve Gabrio asks about a pistachio porter. This month's Brew Your Own has a recipe for a pistachio pilsner that uses a grain alcohol tincture of pistachios to add flavor (and color, which wouldn't show in a porter), with half added during fermentation and half at bottling. the recipe's available online at http://www.byo.com/98mar/exchange.html Tidmarsh Major tmajor at parallel.park.uga.edu Birmingham, Alabama "But we must drink as we brew, And that is but reason." Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:58:26 -0500 From: mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil (Jeff) Subject: 1998 Green Mountain HB Comp. CANCELLED Hi All, I received the following message the other day from the competition organizer. Thought others on the HBD may be interested. >>>>>> The 1998 Green Mountain Homebrew Competition (GMHC), previously scheduled for May 2, 1998, has been CANCELLED due to legal constraints. Legislative action which would allow homebrew competitions to be conducted lawfully in Vermont is currently pending in the Vermont State House. If the bill now being considered passes this year, we may try to reschedule our competition and hold it in the fall of 1998. Further details will be forthcoming. The GMHC Organizing Committee sincerely regrets any inconvenience this action may cause to potential entrants and judges, and to the organizers of the other competitions in the New England Homebrewer of the Year (NEHBOTY) circuit. We appreciate your patience and your understanding as we work through these difficult circumstances. Dave Gannon Competition Organizer Green Mountain Homebrew Competiton (GMHC) <<<<< Hoppy brewing, Jeff ============================================================================ Geoffrey A. McNally Phone: (401) 841-7210 x21390 Mechanical Engineer Fax: (401) 841-7250 Launcher Technology and email: mcnallyg at gam83.npt.nuwc.navy.mil Analysis Branch Naval Undersea Warfare Center Code 8322; Bldg. 1246/2 Newport, RI 02841-1708 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:18:53 +0800 From: Joseph.M.Labeck at brew.oeonline.com, "Jr." <joe-sysop at cyberbury.net> Subject: Too much molasses Hi, folks; I have a question for the almighty collective. I rarely post, so to refresh your memories, I'm a dyed-in-the-wool extract brewer. I recently made a porter. I often add a bit of molasses to the wort, cuz I had read that colonial brewers often used it, among other, wilder ingredients, to make up for a chronic shortage of barley. (I also really like the taste) My problem was that I had a short circuit in my brain. Instead of adding my usual 2/3 cup of light molasses to my 4-gal. batch, I added a FULL cup of blackstrap. It's now conditioned and tastes -um- nasty. I'm going to wait and see if time mellows it out. But I was wondering if anyone has had a similar experience, and can give me a hint on what to expect. Thanks, Joe Labeck Joe's Beer Featuring Cuppa Joe Stout, Uncle Bill's Porter, and Nutt 'n' Tuit Brown Ale Joseph M. Labeck, Jr. Business Writing Services 125 French St. Watertown, CT 06795 (860)274-9421 "...whenever you need the written word" Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 09:16:52 -0600 From: "Robert D. Dittmar" <Robert.D.Dittmar at stls.frb.org> Subject: Goldings hops Collective: I wanted to follow up on a comment made by AlK in HBD 2655. One thing that I feel is overlooked, is that (to my taste) adding too much Golding flavor hops (more than 1 ounce per 5 gallons) will result in a beer with a "sugary" lingering sweetness. Could that be it? I have often been disappointed in British ales for having what I think of as a clinging, cloying sugary taste. I even feel it on my tongue as a kind of crystalline sensation as if I have a mouth full of sugar crystals. I have often wondered what the source of this taste/sensation was, and AlK's post makes me wonder if Golding hops are to blame. Has anyone else had this impression with British ales? Has anyone made homebrew with Goldings and had this impression? I have found commercially, Bass has this taste, Eldridge Pope's Royal Oak has it, and Samuel Smith's India Ale has it, although I haven't noticed it in their other beers. I am not trying to knock British beers in general, as others may find the taste I am talking about pleasing and there are many British beers that I enjoy, but I would like to know what causes the odd taste that I have found in some of them. I at first blamed the taste on bad storage of the beers in question, but if it is indeed Goldings hops, I'll try to avoid using them at home. If anyone has any information, I would like to hear from them. Thanks, Rob Dittmar St. Louis, MO Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:33:36 -0600 From: "Joel Plutchak" <joel at bolt.atmos.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: legalities of transporting HB (HBD #2656) >Does anyone know what legalities one should consider when transporting >homebrew across state lines. Let's say, hypothetically speaking, that one >is moving to another state and one's movers have refused to haul any full >bottles, leaving one to load the car with 10 or so cases of beer and mead. >What perils might this hapless and hypothetical homebrewer face if pulled >over by, say, an Alabama state trooper just past the state line? The legalities depend upon state and local laws. Needless to say, they can vary quite widely. It just happens that I, uh, know a homebrewer and beer aficionado who tends to carry homebrew and commercial beer into a particular dry county in Texas every so often. Last time we, er, he was there, the local newspaper ran an article on Texas dry laws. One that stood out was the fact that if you are caught bringing more than a case of beer into a dry county, it is prima facie evidence of intent to sell (i.e., bootlegging), and has more severe penalties than it otherwise would. I'd do it and not worry too much about it, but drive friendly so as to avoid being stopped just in case. - -- Joel Plutchak A Texas-in-law living in Champaign, Illinois Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 10:44:56 -0500 From: "Capt. Marc Battreall" <batman at terranova.net> Subject: Pistachios and Wyeast 1187 Steve Gabrio wrote and wonders? >The other day I was drinking a porter and eating pistachios. The two >flavors complimented each other well. So... > - Has anybody tried brewing with pistachios? > - Would they work best in the mash, boil or fermentor? > - What quantity would be needed for a 5 gallon batch? Steve, A few years back I brewed an extract batch of brown ale with both pecans and pistachios. Since it was a true experiment, I used 2 ounces of each and I put them in the boil after crushing them. There was a "nutty" hint to the brew but who knows for sure if it was from the malt extract or the added nuts?? Anyway, the beer was called "Two P's In The Pot" and has been published in Lutzens' and Stevens' More Homebrew Favorites for what it's worth. Give 'er a shot, there is no off effects that I know of as long as they are placed in the boil. In the fermenter, hmmmmm????? Follow up on my Wyeast? 1187 thread: Lars Bjornstad sent me an email with a website that had a copy of Wyeasts' strain statistics. I have seen many of these lists all over but this one had the listing for their "1187" that I was looking for. This listing confirms what I had suspected regardign the origin of the yeast I got from my Brewmaster friend in Colorado. Apparently it is not sold retail to homebrewers. Not that this makes this strain anything special, just a little more difficult to acquire. Anyway, at least I know what I have now and just thought ya'll would like to see this thread terminate!! Thanks to all, Marc - ------------------------------------------ Captain Marc Battreall Islamorada, Florida Future site of "The BackCountry Brewhouse" Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 20:51:23 +0000 From: Joe Shope <sltp5 at cc.usu.edu> Subject: water treatment Brethren, I just received a new copy of the analysis of my local water and was wondering if I could get some opinions on water treatment. This is what the analysis gives. pH 7.5 Ca2+ 45 ppm Fe <0.03 ppm Mg2+ <0.01ppm Na+ 1.08 ppm SO4- 6.0 ppm Cl- 1.4 ppm HCO3- 190 ppm hardness 235 alkalinity 156 In the past I have used phosphoric or sulfuric acid to lower the pH down to 6.5 and occasionally I have added a teaspoon of CaCl2 or 1/2 teaspoon of CaSO4. What I would like to do is produce a beer with a dry finish. Are there any suggestions on treatment for this water? Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:06:58 -0600 From: Vachom <MVachow at newman.k12.la.us> Subject: Ian Smith "crisper/cleaner filtered taste?" 3/7/98 Filtering is unquestionably the way to get "that commercial taste," as you say. The finer the filter, the closer you get to Zima. I'll admit upfront that I have a problem with filtering homebrew; the procedure seems antithetical to my reasons for brewing at least. I would encourage you to fiddle with malt profiles, mash schedules, water chemistry, yeast and hop varieties to achieve the tastes you like before you try filtering. Remember that your micro-brewer friend must make his beer saleable to a wide market, including those customers who experience a kind of existential terror when faced with something other than the crystal clear, characterless qualities of Bud. He wants that guy to give his brew a shot and knows he can't do it by handing him a murky 70 IBU pint of IPA. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 13:51:10 -0800 From: Al & Jan Causey <causey.bly at worldnet.att.net> Subject: soon to be homeless Grolsch bottles I live in Tampa and am a homebrewer on a brewing hiatus - AND I'm about to move (relatively quickly) and want to give my collection of >100 Grolsch bottles to a good home. If you live in/near the area and would like to come get them - please call. Thanks, Al - -- Alan L. Causey, MD & Jan E. Bly, PhD 6809 Silver Branch Court; Tampa, FL 33625 USA (813) 963-0379 causey.bly at worldnet.att.net http://home.att.net/~mikestark/ann-tull.htm Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 19:11:15 GMT From: revmra at skyfry.com (Matthew Arnold) Subject: Re: chloramines On Mon, 9 Mar 1998 00:39:26 -0500, you wrote: >So what do you all think of that? Apparently about 25% of large water >utilities and about 5% of small ones are now using chloramination (are >you there, Al?). Thus many of you are starting with chloraminated water. >Are any of you using just a boil, aeration or standing to remove the >chlorine and getting away with it? I've recently gone all-grain (two batches under my belt), so I can only give a limited number of datapoints. My water is, IMHO, heavily chlorinated (when it comes out of the tap, I'm hit with eau de swimming pool). One of the members of my church is the head of the local water and light commission. He told me that some of the wells in town are chlorinated and some are chloraminated (is that a word?) so it's a mixed bag. At any rate, his brother is a chemist for the water system in a town just south of Green Bay. He told me that I could take care of the chlorine/chloramine in our water by boiling. Being lazy and cheap, I've done that instead of getting a carbon filter. None of my extract brews have had noticable problems with chlorophenolics (sp?) nor have my two all-grain batches. They have been tasted by others (and judged by BJCP judges). No one has commented on chlorine-related off-flavors. This is just my experience, so take it for what its worth. I am very sensitive to chlorine (my wife claims she can't smell it out of the tap) so I think I would have noticed some weirdness by now. This new info you posted AJ certainly seems to back up by observations. Later, Matt Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 17:31:35 From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net> Subject: Aerator & RIMS scorching + flow rates George De Piro posted a nice wort aerator which'll work very well but would be a bitch to try to get through the neck of a carboy. Here's what I use. The principle is like George's but it fits into a carboy: | |<-------Racking cane 3/8" || || x1/2" || || /<---1/8" OD brass tubing copper / / for air or O2 hose reducer---->| / | | | | | <----Minimize this gap- +---+---+ mine's ~3/18" | Air | | Stone | +-------+ The bent, short brass tube is soldered to a hole in the reducer. I use a cheap plastic air stone coupled to the brass tube with a short lenght of vinyl tubing. With a niceer SS airstone, I'd consider friction-fitting it to large diameter brass tubing so the whole thing would be boilable. - ---------- Jeremy noted a RIMS scorching problem: >My element is only 48" and would be 5KW at 240V. During my first >batch I noticed a scorched smell in the wort during the first boost. >In looking at the temperature differential across the heating chamber, >it was ~11C... That element isn't running at 240 VAC is it? <g> One question reguarding the high recirc dT across the heater: did you notice the brew's f.g. being higher than expected? Since the mash fluid is said to be enzyme rich, overheating the recirc too much above the desired rest temp. would damage the enzymes and hence make a less fermentable wort. Although the recirc. is only at an elevated temp. for as long as it takes to reach cooler temps. in the tun, it still worries me. Maybe it's overkill, but my controller kills power to the heater when the recirc. temp. ar the exit is > 2 degF above the desired rest temp. A happy by-product is that I've never had a scorching problem even at low flows < 0.5 GPM. Downside is the temp. boosts vary with the flow. >2) I recirculate around the heater rather than through it for the first >half gallon or so since a great deal of particulate matter comes >through then and I believe from inspection of the burnt crud on the >element... Recircing around the heater sounds like a PITA to me. Why not recirc without powering the heater and power it when the recirc clears? I typically shoot for a mash-in temp. a bit lower than the rest temp. and turn on the heater during mash-in- typically while the recirc is still cloudy. >I am intrigued by Dion's flow rate figure. I would love to have a >flow rate like this because it takes me >10 minutes to do a complete >recirculation which makes timing the boosts slightly tricky. IMHO, the high recirc flow needed by a typical RIMS is it's biggest weakness. More than a few HBers report stuck nonRIMS mashes during sparging and here we RIMS users are wanting recirc flows much, much greater than a sparging flow! To get a "decent" Dt/dt (rate of mash temp change between boosts) without scorching, you/ve gotta have a high flow. Reguarding timing the boosts: I don't worry about a slowish boost to mashout since there should be very little enzyme activity during the boost. A slow or variable dT/dt *might* be a potiential problem with a multi-temp. mashing regimen or a single infusion mash where the mash-in temp is off. My own feeling is that as long as the dT/dt rate > ~0.5 degF/min and the rate is fairly consistent mash-to-mash; I wouldn't worry. My guess is that a consistent dT/dt between similiar mashes is more important than the actual rate itself since there's be consistency in the brews produced. >I feel I have a good false bottom--it has never stuck on me. Don't get too hung up on the false bottom design. I did some experimenting with sight glasses installed above and below the old kitchen strainer type false bottom (i.e. big % open area). About 2/3 of the flow restriction was in the bed and not in the false bottom and bottom-to-grain bed interface. That's why, assumming one has a decent false bottom or manifold, I agree with Kyle's suggestion in a previous HBD post that limiting the grain bed height is a good way to increase flow. Hopefully, an automatic stirrer I'm building will also work... Return to table of contents
Date: 9 Mar 98 16:22:01 MST (Mon) From: ddunn at talismanospam.com (Dick Dunn) Subject: re: the slow-mead myth Lars <skyking at e193.ryd.student.liu.se> responded to my opinion that mead should not need long aging times to become palatable: > I would like you to enlighten me what everybody seem to make wrong... It's not "everybody"...a lot of folks are able to make meads that are ready very quickly and that don't have off-tastes even when young. But there are enough people who haven't had this sort of experience that there is a per- sistent myth that meads take multiple years. >...I > can't say I'm a experienced mead maker, but when I did a mead it took > quite a time to carbonate. It took even longer to mellow tastes and I > would say it hasn't done that yet. Slow carbonation in mead is often the result of a long fermentation/ clearing period, where the yeast start to go dormant and a lot fall out so that it takes a while to get enough of a population going again to prime the mead. The other cause is that with a strong mead you may be pushing the alcohol tolerance of the yeast. These two factors can work together. The need to mellow tastes is of more concern, but we'd have to dive into trying to analyze the tastes before it became clear whether it's a young mead taste _vs_ an off-taste. This is difficult, although there is one particular off-taste that people can generally agree on--they tend to call it "mouthwash" or "Listerine". That one is definitely a fault that can be avoided by choice of yeast and reasonable fermentation temperatures. The three main culprits for off-tastes that take a while to age out are an inappropriate yeast, excessive nutrient, and too-high fermentation temperatures. (And yes, I've committed all of these sins myself. I had a pomegranate melomel that took over two years to be reasonably drinkable.) Incidentally, a mead must can benefit from oxygen when getting started, every bit as much as a beer wort can. It's a much better way to get a quick fermentation than trying to force it by dumping in a bunch of nutrient or pushing the temperature up. >...Mr Dunn also states that there > should be no difference between straight meads and methegiln since the > spices aren't fermentable, but doesn't the spices need time to mellow? Yes, but it also takes a bit for the honey character to mellow. In methe- glins, it depends on what herbs/spices you're using. It also depends on personal tastes. Cardamom, for example, can be pretty assertive in a young metheglin. If you like the spice, you'll like the metheglin when it's young; otherwise you'll want more time for it to mellow. Still, I think your statement is a reasonable generalization, that methe- glins may take longer to mellow out. > And for the newbie scaring part of long maturation times it should not > be a problem - if you're going to make mead you have to be patient > anyway due to long fermentation times... Yes, but it's a matter of degree. You can't expect mead to finish on a beer schedule, but it should be a matter of weeks-to-months, not a matter of years. Once somebody is used to making beer, and has built up a bit of supply, it might be only a minor annoyance to think that a carboy will be tied up until May or June, but it's quite different to think that it could be tied up until some time in the year 2000. But really, I want people to understand that mead can be made so that it doesn't *require* long aging to be rid of *faults*. - --- Dick Dunn ddunn, domain talisman.com Boulder County, Colorado USA ...Mr. Natural says, "Use the right tool for the job." Return to table of contents
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