---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Tired of Bottles! ("Ronald D. Zuber")
  cat vomit/CO2 (Brad Johnson)
  Cameron Stovetop Smoker Users? ("Mark Nelson")
  Re: CO2 (Doug Moyer)
  Re: converting oxygen tank to co2 (RobertJ)
  Chinook / Pyrex / Cat Balls (John Varady)
  High pH Tap Water ("Jeffrey M. Kenton")
  Milk Stout ("David R. Burley")
  Libery Clone Mash Temps ("Capt. Marc Battreall")
  Tinseth hop calculations (Matthew Arnold)
  Re: Feline Upchuck Steam ("Matthew J. Harper")
  Planting Rhizomes (John Varady)
  Re:  Cat Vomit Steam Beer Recipe ("Brian Rezac")
  Injecting (Al Korzonas)
  haze and improving with age (Al Korzonas)
  Rinsing Iodophor, thin beers, protein rests ("Jim Busch")
  briess pale ale malt vs. imports ("Henckler, Andrew")
  Paradise Seeds ("Tomusiak, Mark")
  Kornelius Kegs in the Bay Area ("Douglas P. Keith")
  Keg leakage ("Barry Wertheimer")
  Bottle conditioning lagers.../Dunkel comment ("Riedel, Dave")
  Kolsch Questions ("Capt. Marc Battreall")
  California Cat Vomit ("Hans E. Hansen")
  Husks and polyphenols (Al Korzonas)
  Coke Keg Lids (antnee56)
  1/2 bbl keg grain capacity ("Philip J Wilcox")
  Yakima Goldings? (scotty)
  malting/kilning weird grains (Ahenckler)


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Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 22:44:22 -0700
From: "Ronald D. Zuber" <zuber at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Tired of Bottles!

Ok, now I've had it.  I can't look at another bottle.  Can somebody
(anybody) give me an idea on how to switch to kegs? How much does it cost
and what I need?



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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 06:23:02 -0400
From: Brad Johnson <bjohnson at berkshire.net>
Subject: cat vomit/CO2

*Around 11PM I went to oxygenate this batch and pitch into the yeast 
starter.  I uncovered the pot and as I started to bubble the oxygen 
through the wort, Sylvester, my large male cat hopped up on the counter 
to see what was going.  He sat there for a while watching with a VERY 
strange look on his face and kept sniffing the starter and swallowing. 
And then, before I could react, HE VOMITED INTO THE STARTER. *

I think we have here our definitive clinical trial for CO2 hazards to 
the homebrewer . . . . . .

Brad Johnson 
Berkshire BroadArrow Brewery
Bjohnson at berkshire.net



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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:37:53 -0400
From: "Mark Nelson" <menelson at mindspring.com>
Subject: Cameron Stovetop Smoker Users?

Does anyone in the collective use a contraption called a Cameron's Stovetop
Smoker to smoke malt at home?  I have one and have been thinking about
trying to smoke a portion of a porter or stout malt bill.  Any help would be
appreciate.



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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:39:00 -0400
From: Doug Moyer <moyer-de at salem.ge.com>
Subject: Re: CO2

Ray Estrella  writes on the well beaten subject of CO2: "So if you stay
out of your carboys, you should be safe."

In that vein, it appears that you can get a very high concentration of
CO2 in a chest freezer if you have a leak in your gas line or
connections. Even a slow leak seems to build up the CO2 level over time.
I ran into this when I was cleaning out my chest freezer, and was bent
over with my head inside the box wiping away. I first noticed the
"scent" (actually a tingle in my nose) and then developed a strong
headache. I don't think there was any likelyhood of passing out and
falling into the chest freezer and asphixiating, but it was still
unpleasant. FWIW

Doug Moyer
Salem, VA
Star City Brewers Guild



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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:13:21 -0400
From: RobertJ <PBSys at pbsbeer.com>
Subject: Re: converting oxygen tank to co2

To convert an oxygen tank to CO-2 you're going to have to change the valve
in the tank to accept a CO-2 regulator. (Each gas has it's own unique
fitting to prevent mistakes) You will also have to know the opening
diameter on the tank in order to get the proper CO-2 valve.

depending on where purchased it might be cheaper and easier to get a used
CO-2 tank or to rent one
Bob
Precision Brewing Systems URL http://www.pbsbeer.com Manufacturer of 3
Vessel Brew Systems, HERMS, SS Brew Kettles, SS hopbacks and the
MAXICHILLER (fastest CF chiller available)


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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:05:41 -0700
From: John Varady <rust1d at usa.net>
Subject: Chinook / Pyrex / Cat Balls

On Chinook: This is a nice bittering hop and I don't like to see it wrongly
accused of being harsh. Most high alpha hops used excessively will lead to
a harsher bitterness then low alpha hops used to achieve the same IBUs. To
back this statement up, we have a case study currently running with the
Great HBD Palexperiment. 47 five gallon batches have been brewed using
Chinook for bittering. We'll see if any comments come back post judging
indicating a harsh bitterness was present. From the brewers tasting
comments so far, it is a nice recipe with a pleasant bitterness. Since the
digest is slow, here is the exact amount of ingredients shipped to each
participating brewer:

Name:   Palexperiment        O.G.: 1.0??
Style:  Oregon Pale Ale    I.B.U.:  ??.?
Volume: 5.0 Gallons        A.B.V.:  ???%

Grains/Fermentables            Lbs    Hops       AAU  Grams  Min
Crisp Marris Otter Pale Ale   8.20    Chinook   10.5  23.00   75
Hugh Baird Medium Crystal     1.00    Cascade    4.8  23.00   30
Briess Munich                 0.80    Cascade    4.8  23.00   15
                                      Cascade    4.8  23.00    0
Yeast: American Ale Wyeast 1056                          
Mash  at  154F for 90 mins.

The experiment is running along nicely. We have all brewed and some of us
are starting to bottle. Bottles will to sent to Louis Bonham sometime in
June for lab testing. The on line web page is still under construction, but
should be up soon for each brewer to enter his brew session specifics. Then
the number crunching can begin. The existing web page on the HBD server at:

http://www.hbd.org/~brewola

Another data point about Chinook: Anybody familiar with the Sister Star of
the Sun recipe knows that it is a high acclaimed, award winning IPA. David
Brockington uses enough Chinook in that recipe (3 oz in 5 gallons) to
debunk any such statements that Chinook is harsh and should be avoided.

=====
While brewing an Abbey beer this weekend, I was explaining the reasons for
quickly chilling wort to a friend. He mentioned Pyrex carboys and asked if
they would be useful in any way, and I came up with this idea:

After boiling, transfer the still hot wort to a Pyrex carboy. Take a
sanitized balloon (or condom) and fill it with a suitable amount of pure
oxygen. Attach this balloon to the top of the carboy so that it will have
some sanitary oxygen to suck in as the cooling wort contracts. This should
also serve to oxygenate the wort. When the wort has cooled sufficiently,
the balloon is removed and the yeast pitched into what should be a
completely sanitary (sterile?) environment. The cold break will be in the
carboy using this method, but it would also be there if using a CF chiller.

Since Pyrex carboys sell for about $100, this option may not the be most
viable, but otherwise does anyone see up/down sides to this?

=====
Jim Bentson gives up the gory details about some of the things that can go
wrong when making a starter with his revolting cat hair ball story. All I
can think is something awful must have happened to him in the past due to
underpitching to cause him to take the course of action he did. I'd pitch a
smack pack directly into my wort before using starter medium that was
yakked in by a cat. But that's just me, to each his own.


I have made cannibalistic beer once when I lost a chunk of my knuckle into
the kettle on a sharp edge on the cut out top of the keg whilst stirring.
Blood, skin and tears.

Later,

John








John Varady
Glenside, PA                    rust1d at usa.net
   



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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:33:35 -0500
From: "Jeffrey M. Kenton" <jkenton at iastate.edu>
Subject: High pH Tap Water

Howdy folks, A great deal of buzz has been given to the high pH numbers
reported from a fellow poster's recipe. pHs in the 9s are common straight
from municipal taps because neutral and acidic waters are apt to corrode
water pipes, among other things. Plus, since most waters have very little
buffering capacity, the pH will plummet when treated with an acid source
(phosphoric, lactic, BP, etc.) and will stabilize at the buffering capacity
of the acid source (around 5.2 for BP), or rather the pH of the acid when
using mineral acids.

Basic waters may cause some problems if not heated to boiling before adding
extract syrups, however. (Gives some time for the chlorine and other stuff
to evolve before adding the sugars)

At least that's what the guy at the water plant said to me...

Jeff

- -------------------
Jeff Kenton		brewer at iastate.edu
Ames, Iowa		jkenton at iastate.edu	(515) 294 9997




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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:39:49 -0400
From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Milk Stout

Brewsters:

AlK comments on my comments about "milk" stout being
touted as a useful dietary supplement ( among other things)
for nursing mothers.  He correctly states that many stouts
other than those called "milk" were touted for this purpose.
I did not mean to imply otherwise. But milk stouts were
perceived to be more healthful and therefore promoted to
nursing mothers and the connection to promoting more
and better milk is obvious. It almost makes it a mother's
duty to down a few.

AlK incorrectly states that milk stout has to have
milk sugar in it.

Michael J. Lewis in "Stout" Classic Beer series says:

p 50  "Milk Stouts might contain some small percentage of
lactose (milk sugar) but not necessarily."

The connection between milk and health was used by
purveyors to imply healthfulness and richness in alcoholic
beverages.  ala Bristol Milk Sherry and Bristol Cream Sherry.
Although not quite the same emphasis, in Germany the wine
Liebfraumilch  ( Mother Mary's Milk ) is another example
and other uses through out history. Milk chocolate was
promoted as being more healthful because it had milk in it.
Certainly the dairy industry has done a wonderful job of
marketing their products to Northern Europeans and their
progeny for hundreds of years. There are undoubtedly
some deep seated emotional ties to milk for anyone who
has a mother

Lewis even comments that the Kent dairy farmers asked to
run their cows through the brewery grounds to imply the
connection with milk.

Lewis says on page 27:  "Milk and Cream Stouts  arose
perhaps as a means of boosting the already implied
healthful properties of stout by adding milk products such
as lactose or whey or (in  one patent) concentrated
peptonized (partially hydrolysed) milk."

So you can see that calling a stout "milk" had a lot of
marketing implications, made it OK for mothers to drink
stout openly, thus, giving a larger market.

Lewis has a table on page 28 comparing the vitamin and
mineral content of milk stout and regular stout.  A quick
glance down the table shows the milk stout to be the same
or lower than a regular stout in its healthful content.

I was surprised to learn that AlK had a milk stout 5 years ago
in Britain, since I thought the name had been made illegal.
Perhaps I confused the US laws with the British laws.
Or perhaps this was served in a pub and not in a bottle in
commerce?

Got Milk (Stout)?

Keep on brewin'


Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3202 at compuserve.com
Dave_Burley at compuserve.com  

Voice e-mail OK   


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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:06:22 -0400
From: "Capt. Marc Battreall" <batman at terranova.net>
Subject: Libery Clone Mash Temps

Hello All,

Got so carried away with the Liberty clone business that I forgot to
include the mashing regime in the recipe. It may not a perfect routine
according to alot of peoples standards, but it was what I used and it
worked out pretty good. I suppose you could substitute an infusion
schedule, but I have had good results with this. I use 1.3 quarts per
pound of grain as a guideline, mash my grains with a MaltMill (tm) set
at the factory setting, which is approx .045, and mash and lauter in a
10 gallon Polarware ss kettle with ss false bottom. Haven't had a stuck
mash yet! (knocking on wood). Try this regime;
130-132F strike water - 122F-15 min, 138F-15 min, 152F-50 min, 168F-10
min mash out. Sparge with approx 5-6 gallons of 172F for at least 45
min. 

Sorry about making this a 2 part recipe.
- -- 
Captain Marc Battreall
Islamorada, Florida
Future site of "The BackCountry Brewhouse"



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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:25:10 GMT
From: marnold at netnet.net (Matthew Arnold)
Subject: Tinseth hop calculations

I have a question for anyone who uses Tinseth's hop calculations. I emailed
this message to Glenn Tinseth himself, but have not yet received a reply.

I'm a beta tester for a new brewing program which incorporates Tinseth's
formula. I contend that, based on the information on Glenn's website, the
program uses his formula incorrectly. The calculators on Tinseth's website
agree with the program's results _if_ the gravity you use is the original
gravity, i.e. post-boil gravity.

It seems to me that Tinseth's calculators are in fact asking for the pre-boil
gravity. His CGI calculator asks for "Boil wort gravity (specific gravity)" and
the javascript one asks for "Wort Specific Gravity (during the boil)" (see
http://realbeer/hops). Obviously this will make a major difference in the
calculations.

Here's an IPA example that I gave to the author of the program. I use a propane
cooker and easily boil off 1.5-2 gallons in an hour:

O.G. after boil: 1.066 (five gallons)
Gravity of the boil: 1.047 (seven gallons)
Hop additions: Centennial 10.5% AA: 2.5 oz--60 minutes, .5 oz--10 minutes;
Cascade 3.5% AA: 1 oz--10 minutes, 1 oz--knockout

IBUs using 1.066 as gravity: 88 IBU (the program and Tinseth's calculators
agree)
IBUs using 1.047 as gravity: 104 IBU

Any thoughts?
  Matt

P.S. Has anyone else not received the latest BT yet?


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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:54:36 -0400
From: "Matthew J. Harper" <matth at progress.com>
Subject: Re: Feline Upchuck Steam

Uh yeah, nice story Jim Bentson!

I think the *worst* problem you're going to have is that this will
*undoubtedly* turn out to be your best batch yet and now you're going
to have to schedule brew time around your new job AND your cats
intestinal urges! :-)

I think this is more likely a ONEshot brew rather than a
LONGshot brew, no?  <grin>


Now that I've gotten that out of my system, so to speak...

Intro:

I'm more a lurker than anything else, though I've been getting the digest
(almost) daily from 6+ years now.  I'm *finally* in the construction
stages of a dedicated, well-ventilated, natural-gas fed, filtered water
based brewery in the basement!  YES!

I'm strongly considering a RIMS setup since I need to insert a pump into
the equation anyway due to height restrictions in the basement.  (It's
only 7.5 feet and my liquor tank is rather tall...)  I've looked far and
wide on the web and back issues and find I'm lacking in some desired
details.


Why the hell I'm posting:

Normal procedure is to mount the RIMS heater element into a length of 1.5
inch
Copper Pipe.  Being one to learn from *other* peoples mistakes, I'm looking
for more details on construction of said pipe assembly.  I can get/cut/sweat
the
pipes, do the wiring, Grianger account access, etc. etc.  I just don't have
the
time to do this over and over again, that's a big point behond going RIMS in
the
first place!

Would some kind soul *please* share thier design(s) with me for their heater
unit?
I'm curious about stuff like: Threaded endcaps? Issues around cleaning the
element,
How'd you integrate your thermometer(s)?  I don't have the $$$ for a high
end
whiz-bang controller unit; how have people faired manually or partial-auto
using
thermostat based heater units?


Thanks for ANY and all info!


 -Matth







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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:50:04 -0700
From: John Varady <rust1d at usa.net>
Subject: Planting Rhizomes

I am about to plant my rhizomes in the yard and was thinking about cutting
the bottom off of 5 gallon buckets, burying these up to the top and filling
with dirt. The rhizomes would then be planted in the bottomless bucket. I
would like to keep the hops from spreading and thought this would be the
best way to guarantee that they only grow where planted. Will this present
any drainage problems or such? I don't want the hops to spread all over my
garden.

John

John Varady                     http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady
Boneyard Brewing                The HomeBrew Recipe Calculating Program
Glenside, PA                    rust1d at usa.net
   



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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:15:29 -0600
From: "Brian Rezac" <brian at aob.org>
Subject: Re:  Cat Vomit Steam Beer Recipe

In HBD #2692, Jim Bentson <jbentson at htp.net> wrote:
> Around 11PM I went to oxygenate this batch and pitch into the yeast
starter.
> I uncovered the pot and as I started to bubble the oxygen through the
wort,
> Sylvester, my large male cat hopped up on the counter to see what was
going.
> He sat there for a while watching with a VERY strange look on his face and
> kept sniffing the starter and swallowing. And then, before I could react,
HE
> VOMITED INTO THE STARTER.
> <snip>
> So I filtered the mess through a coffee filter and checked the residue for
> mice feet ( there were none but there was a large hair ball). I took the
liquid,
> added more water and reboiled for twenty minutes. After it was chilled I
> took a deep breath and tasted a spoonful. Hmm- it tastes the same as
usual.
>
> As I write this, the starter is happily fermenting towards full krausen
and
> will be pitched later today. I will keep all informed.
> <snip>
> (For those interested in replicating the recipe,use one tablespoon of
Little
> Friskies Liver & Chicken + one  inch hair ball warmed to intestinal
> temperatures for about 2 hours. Allow to steep in the sweet wort starter
for
> about 2 minutes )
>
> PS   I challenge the AHA to use this recipe for Cat Vomit Steam Beer
> UNALTERED in next year's MegaBrew Contest!!!!
>       Brian,  are you up to the challenge?


Jim,

We were actually considering a similar recipe for Big Brew '98.  The biggest
hurdle that we ran across, however, is synchronizing the emesis of so many
house cats.  We decided that it would be enough of an accomplishment just to
synchronize homebrewers across the nation.

Here at the AHA, however, we encourage the fluvial surge of ideas spurting
in from homebrewers everywhere.   We masticate and digest these ideas and
regurgitate them into new AHA programs or we lump these ideas with existing
programs.

So, keep those ideas flowing!

Thanks for the suggestion, Jim.

PS - Big Brew '98 is not a competition.  We may have a competition down the
road with the batches that were brewed, but the goal of Big Brew '98 is to
just brew together as a community.

E Pluribus (Br)Unum!  -   {From Many, One (Brew)!}

Brian Rezac
Administrator
American Homebrewers Association
736 Pearl Street, Boulder, CO  80302
brian at aob.org        http:/beertown.org

"I don't think you guys understand.  "Chunks" is my cat!"
              - punch line (altered) to a joke recently received via the
Internet





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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:51:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: Injecting

Mark writes:
>       I recall a little while ago someone suggesting the use of a
>syringe for blasting air into their stout to create a head similar to that
>of Guinness.  That got me thinking....what about using a big syringe for
>"injecting" wort to aerate it before pitching?  The only problem I can
>think of would be a risk of introducing ambient "nasties" into the wort.

It would work, but you would have to do it many times.  AJ's tests showed
that pouring from one container to another (which is something like
"injecting" the *entire* batch into itself) *once* would only provide
a marginal amount of oxygen for some yeasts (some yeasts won't be happy
unless you give them a minute of pure oxygen!) and would definitely not
be enough if you were brewing a 1.120 Barleywine.

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/


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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:14:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: haze and improving with age

Harry writes:
>the 2 ft. length of hose between the corny and the picnic tap (also in
>the fridge) does clear with time. <snip>
>Fill a
>glass with beer and the "new" beer now in the hose is cloudy. <snip>

>Does this sound like good old protein haze?  Could the pelleted
>dry-hopping
>cause cloudiness in the beer?  Why does the line clear, but not the keg?

I don't think it's the dryhopping.  It could some kind of protein haze or
it could be some slowly-flocculating yeast.  I assume that the hose is
sitting in a coil on top of the keg, right?   Haze and yeast will settle
after some time and in the hose, it has a very short distance to falls
(compared to the several feet in the keg).  In the keg, the beer may be
clearing, but you keep drawing from the bottom.  Do the kegs suddenly
become very clear?  If so, you could rig up a system you draw from the
top of the keg rather than the bottom (a floating pickup).  The proper
solution is to find the source of your haze and solve that.  Your second
question may give us another piece of the puzzle... read on.

>2) Could inadequate oxygenation of wort lead to a nasty flavor in your
>beer that fades with lagering?    All of my beers (including the batch
>mentioned above) have a distinct harsh taste to them (some more than others)
>that fades with time in the fridge.

There are two things that cause harshness that fade with time: polyphenols
and higher alcohols.  The polyphenols (tannins) will also contribute to haze
formation, so I think that may be your problem.  Polyphenols are extracted
from your malts and hops and the level of extraction gets excessive when the
pH is too high.  Have you checked your pH?  You should *not* be steeping
your malt in the entire 5 gallons of water (even if you have relatively
low-bicarbonate water) and even one gallon per pound might be too much
if you have high-bicarbonate water.  Try pre-boiling your water and decanting
the water off the white precipitate.  This water (if you have enough
calcium) will be much lower in pH.  If you have very hard water, you probably
have a water softener... if it's an ion-exchnage softener, bypass it for
your brewing water!   Pre-boiling ion-exchange (the kind that uses a block
of salt or salt crystals) softened water will do very little because you
need the calcium (that the softener removes) to remove the bicarbonate.

If it's higher alcohols, a lower fermentation temperature or a different
yeast may help, but then you still have this unexplained haze...

Al.

Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/


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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:22:59 +0000
From: "Jim Busch" <jim at victorybeer.com>
Subject: Rinsing Iodophor, thin beers, protein rests

In digest 2692, Hans comments on the old rinse/no rinse issue when 
using Iodophors.  Hans notes that some of the respondents mentioned 
that they rinse fermenters but not other equipment.  This is in 
direct contrast with my practice and given a little thought it is 
easy to understand why one does not want to do this (unless they are 
certain that the rinse water is nearly "sanitized").   Fresh wort is 
most prone to infection and before the krausen gets going I would not 
want anything of potential infection coming close to my wort.   As 
for finished beer, I am not nearly as concerned and often use a tap 
water rinse. 

Hans also asks about thin beers and mentions extracts and degree of 
attenuation.  A beers body is not really predicated on degree of 
attenuation so much as protein spectrum.  A recent article by Dr 
Narziss in Brauwelt indicates that beers of very high apparent degree 
of attenuation (ADA in the 83-84%, which is very high indeed) do not 
suffer from a loss of body.  The key is the percentage of high 
molecular weight nitrogenous fractions over 10,000 Mol Weight should 
be kept in the 20-22% range of total nitrogen fractions.  Narziss 
notes that doughing in at 52-62C and taking the first decoction at 
62C is a good compromise with todays modern continental malts.  This 
has worked quite well for me with Weyermann malts and makes me ponder 
the Siebel folks comments on the lack of utility of rests in the 
55-60 range.  Surely there are several important malt enzymes still 
active at this range that will contribute to the overall balance of 
the finished beer.  Once again, Narziss agrees that rests in the 
45-55C range should be minimized as the resultant beers display an 
"empty, harsh beer which lacks liveliness".  As for ADA and full 
bodied beers, I once again note that Bavarian Maerzens are highly 
attenuated but also have very high degree of malt fullness and body.  
German Altbiers are another good example.

What this means for Hans is that he is at the mercy of the extract 
manufacturer and other than changing brands his main alternative is 
to employ partial mash programs to recover his beer proteins.  I 
would suggest a mash of  1 kilo of pils malt with his specialties.

Speaking of decoction, did anyone else catch the article in American 
Brewer by Dr Lewis where he claims that decoctions have no effect on 
the finished beer??!  I can see an argument whereby decoctions impart 
more astringency, or increase haze, or decrease bottle stability or 
increase mash yields or darken wort color or lend melanoidens to the 
beer but to claim that there is no effect is mindboggling to me.   
But hey, Im not a doctor just a rocket scientist.   ;-}

Prost!

Jim Busch







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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:34:04 -0400
From: "Henckler, Andrew" <ahenckler at findsvp.com>
Subject: briess pale ale malt vs. imports

Greetings, all:

I have used British, Belgian and German pale malts exclusively for the
last 2 years.  In a fit of curiosity, I am re-investigating the
wonderful world of domestic malts.  I have bought a sach of plain old
Briess 2-row pale malt to play with.  What I am curious about is the
Briess pale *ale* malt, which wasn't available the last time (years ago)
I bought domestic malts.  How does this malt compare to Marris Otter and
other UK pale ale malts in terms of modification, yeild, ease of mashing
and, most importantly, flavor?  The briess web-site shows this stuff at
100 degrees Lintner, which is a good bit higher than UK pale ale malts,
if memory serves.  I've read the genericized analysis briess has posted;
I relly want to hear from those of you who have used this stuff in a
small scale setup, esp. in single infusion mashes.

TIA!


Andrew P. Henckler
Senior Research Analyst
Industrial Products & Services Practice
Strategic Consulting & Research Group
FIND/SVP-THE BEST PEOPLE TO FIND THE ANSWERS

625 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY  10011

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E-mail:  ahenckler at findsvp.com
Web:    http://www.findsvp.com


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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:55:27 -0700
From: "Tomusiak, Mark" <tomusiak at amgen.com>
Subject: Paradise Seeds

Greetings all...I recently came across a homebrew supplier on the
internet that is advertising something called "paradise seeds" for
Belgian brewing, indicating that they lend a spicy, peppery flavor.
Anybody have any idea what these are?  I dug around for some info on
them, and came up with conflicting references to paprika and cardamom,
amongst other things.  Any thoughts would be appreciated, 

Mark Tomusiak
Boulder, Colorado


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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:14:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Douglas P. Keith" <keithd at holmes.uchastings.edu>
Subject: Kornelius Kegs in the Bay Area


I just bought a kegging system and am looking for extra kegs.

Does anyone know where I can get my hands on some inexpensive Kornelius 
Kegs in the SF Bay area?  Actually I only need them for one big party, I 
already bought two (for $40, and $30) and want to have about 5 or 6 for 
one party.

Thanks






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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:17:43 EST
From: "Barry Wertheimer" <wertheim at LIBRA.LAW.UTK.EDU>
Subject: Keg leakage

Greetings,

Although no replies were posted, I received several private responses 
to my post about a leaky soda keg, and thought I would summarize the 
responses in case anyone is interested.

The consensus response was that my liquid out poppet was not sealing 
properly, either because of some crud in the way (e.g. hop particle), 
or because the poppet was bad, or possibly the valve itself was bad.

I was pretty sure it was not a crud problem, because I clean the
fittings periodically, and the leakage had recurred over a couple of
batches of beer.  The o-rings were all replaced when I acquired 
my kegs, so I knew that was not the problem.  I also had replaced 
several poppets on different kegs, but was not sure if this 
particular poppet had been replaced.

I went ahead and replaced the problem poppet, and have experienced no 
leakage thus far; it appears the poppet was the culprit.

One reply suggested using teflon tape around the valve threads, to
get a better seal.  I tried this before replacing the poppet,
without success.   This might be helpful for non-poppet sealing
problems.

Thanks to all who replied.
- ----------------------------
Barry Wertheimer
wertheim at libra.law.utk.edu
Knoxville, TN


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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:18:59 -0700
From: "Riedel, Dave" <RiedelD at dfo-mpo.gc.ca>
Subject: Bottle conditioning lagers.../Dunkel comment

Mark asks about bottle conditioning lagers... need fresh yeast?

I made a series of lagers between January and March.  The first,
a Dunkel (OG 1.053) has been in the bottle about a month and 
the carbonation is fine.  The second, a Vienna (OG 1.051) has
been in the bottle 2 weeks.  It too, seems to be carbonating w/o
any problems.  I have a third batch (pilsner: OG 1.049) which is
still lagering... I'll post if it doesn't behave.

The two bottled batches were fermented using Wyeast 2206
(Bavarian) at about 54F for 2 weeks and lagered at about 35F
for 6 weeks.  I primed with corn sugar to about 2.5 vols C02 
and let the conditioning occur in the low 60s for 2 weeks before 
lowering to the middle to upper 50s (after opening a bottle and 
checking for carbonation).

- --------------
Just a note on the Munich Dunkel style... with hopping around
20 IBU and the restrained contribution from the yeast, this is a
pretty blah style IF you don't get a full malty flavour and aroma
(which is of course the whole idea).  I suggest to anyone thinking
of trying it to use all Munich malt as the base and/or add a little
Aromatic to ensure lots of maltiness... maybe I should have
decocted?

Cheers,
Dave Riedel
Victoria, BC, Canada



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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:22:29 -0400
From: "Capt. Marc Battreall" <batman at terranova.net>
Subject: Kolsch Questions

Hello All,
A few questions for the collective and any Kolsch experts out there;

I have a Kolsch going in the primary fermenter and it has been there for
10 days at 56-58F. I used a Wyeast #2565 - 800 ml starter, stepped up
three times from a new culture pack. The OG was 1.047 and I just checked
it today and it was 1.010, which is obviuosly close to finished. There
is however, still a very tall (1.5-2.0 inch) rocky, milky krausen head
on it. The fermentation activity has been understandbly slow considering
the temperature, but the presence of the size large krausen head
indicates that maybe there is some fermentation left to be done.
Should I not worry, follow my instincts and hydrometer and rack it to
the secondary for cold conditioning or wait it out a few days more? 
Any opinions, experiences, or guidance from the gang will be appreciated
greatly.

TIA,

Marc
- -- 

Captain Marc Battreall
Islamorada, Florida
Future site of "The BackCountry Brewhouse"


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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:23:09 -0700
From: "Hans E. Hansen" <hansh at teleport.com>
Subject: California Cat Vomit

If the cat had been pointed the other direction, would the beer style
be California Crap?

This gem should be saved for future generations.  Submit it to
Cat's Meow.

Jim: Was any alcohol consumption involved here?

Hans E. Hansen
hansh at teleport.com


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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:31:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Subject: Husks and polyphenols

Dave writes:
>With your water pH in the 9's you likely are extracting phenols
>from the barley husks.  Wheat having no husks doesn't have
>this problem, so that's why the wheat batches were OK.

Actually, very little of the polyphenols are in the husks.
Check your copy of Malting and Brewing Science (you did get
the newer edition, right?) and see the comparison of
polyphenols and silicates in mashes made from regular and
de-husked barley malt.  Polyphenols were relatively unchanged
whereas silicates were decreased significantly in the de-husked
batch.

Overcrushing does increase polyphenol extraction, but they
*don't* come from the husks.

Al.


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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:03:20 -0400
From: antnee56 at juno.com
Subject: Coke Keg Lids

Hi All,
                 I'v come across some old 5 gallon coke kegs, 2  have lid
relief valves and 5 do not.          Does anyone have info on installing
a relief valve in the lids or should i use them and not worry.   Every
article i read recommends having them and i'm a little hesitant to use
them without the relief valves.  If anyone out there has installed relief
valves or something comparable on lids your help will be greatly
appreciated.
		Happy Brewing , Tony in Trenton, NJ

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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:03:51 -0400
From: "Philip J Wilcox"<pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com>
Subject: 1/2 bbl keg grain capacity





From: Philip J Wilcox at CMS on 04/20/98 07:03 PM

I am considering a 10 gal batch of Big 10/20 for the Big Brew. I have
2-tier 1/2 bbl system using the very shallow 11" mash screen by HBT.  I
only get a quart or so under the screen. I haven't scorched any grain yet!
knock on wood. I am wondering about the grain capacity. I had no problems
with the 27 lbs of grist for the1.076 Doppelbock (2 decoctions). That's 81%
Efficiency using Brewers Workshop. It filled the tun almost 2/3 full. So in
theory 40 lbs of grist is possible. Has anyone out there achieved this?
With my efficiency (81%) I only need 36 lbs to get my 10 gal of 1.096.

Ok Half-barrel gadgeteers here is the next poll--
Mashing
1. What are your max capacities? Theory and actual attempted
2. What are your efficiencies?
3. Do you recirculate?
4. Are you RIMSing?
5. False bottom type.
Hopping
1. What are your efficiencies?
   A Whole
   B Pellet
   C Plug
2. Whose #'s do you use for IBU's
   A Brewers Workshop
   B Glen Thisights (sp)
   C Rager
   D Standard IBU
Email me, and Ill Re-post the survey results.


Phil Wilcox
poison frog home brewery
Sec/Tres Prison City Brewers




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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:32:04 +0000
From: scotty at enaila.nidlink.com
Subject: Yakima Goldings?

My local brewshop sells some hops that read "Yakima Goldings" on the 
package.  I was curious about what these really are.  Are these Kent 
Goldings that are grown in the Yakima Valley?  Are there any real 
flavor/aroma differences between the two?

Thanks for the info,

Scott Rohlf
Coeur d' Alene, ID
scotty at nidlink.com


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Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:31:26 EDT
From: Ahenckler <Ahenckler at aol.com>
Subject: malting/kilning weird grains

Hi folks:

I received a food dehydrator as a gift about 6 months ago and this puppy has a
thermostat on it that allows you to adjust drying temps.  It would be ideal
for drying hops (set the temp real low to keep the aromatics) if I had room to
grow them (tough to find space in the big apple... oh how I miss my big, Ohio
back yard).  The thermostat goes up to 135 degrees F (if memory serves).
Wouldn't this be about right for gently and efficiently drying/kilning home
malted grain?  I'm thinking along the lines of malted amaranth, quinoa or
other wild and wooly grains which might add some distinctive notes to a beer.
What do all of you think?


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