HOMEBREW Digest #2748 Wed 24 June 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Re: Kettle outflow without welding (Fred Johnson)
  Re: The Gecko Sump Report (Mat Farrington)
  mulberries (Dick Dunn)
  Homemade buffer solutions? (Dave Williams)
  Keg Storage ("LARSONC%DOM13.DOPO7")
  ASBC Color ("A. J. deLange")
  Wort Chiller Construction (Richard Parker)
  cola flavors ("Joe Shope")
  Skunking & Bitching ("Matthew J. Harper")
  Re: Citrus Notes (Jeff Renner)
  Respiration and the Crabtree Effect (Al Korzonas)
  sugars; big systems; mash warmer; spicy posts; mash vs lauter tuns; sax & violins (Samuel Mize)
  Carry-On Homebrew ("Robert D. Dittmar")
  Public replies and fearful newcomers (Samuel Mize)
  I'm no William Safire, but... ("David Kerr")
  Fearful lurkers, please help me (Samuel Mize)
  Rebel without a Cause / Belgian Strong Ales (Marc.Arseneau)
  Re. separate mash and lauter tuns (Jim Layton)
  Syringe - pocket beer engine (Samuel Mize)
  Re: Citrus Notes ("Tkach, Christopher")
  pectase should have been pectinase (Al Korzonas)
  Colour calculations (Al Korzonas)
  Welcome to new posters! (Samuel Mize)
  RobberMaid Cooler/Mash Tun (RobertS735)
  dark candi sugar ("Bayard W. Wenzel")
  Open Sea Fermenting ("Cloutier, Steve")
  RIMS/bruheat mashtun (Lostboy676)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 23:15:32 -0400 From: Fred Johnson <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Kettle outflow without welding Several days ago Bret Morrow asked: Has anyone modified their keg using off the shelf fittings? I don't believe anyone posted to Bret's question about how to fit a kettle with a draining system without welding. I recently have done this and it found that it works well. At first I was advised to use a "bulkhead" fitting to go through the wall of the kettle, but I found that these were quite expensive. I was able to find for a small price ( I don't remember the cost) a brass drain fitting at a local hardware store that is about one inch in diameter. It has a flanged end and a thin nut with a rubber washer that secures it to the wall. It is threaded on the inside and the outside to accomodate other brass fittings. I used a brass adaptor to step down the diatmeter to that of my ball valve (also brass). I will be looking for a thicker nut since the one provided is too thin to get a good grip on it for easier assembly.I used the fitting without a drain tube to the bottom of the kettle for several brews and just tilted the keg at the end of the draining session to get the last of the wort. I forgot to mention that I also wired a copper scrub pad to the inside of the fitting to strain off hops and break material. This did a fair job but I much improved the drain by attacing a piece of copper tubing to the inside of the drain fitting with a standard brass compression fitting and bending the copper tubing to sit on the bottom of the kettle. The hardest part was bending the copper tubing and getting the length cut to sit just above the bottom of the kettle. The copper scrub pad is still used and just sits on the bottom of the kettle held in place by the copper tubing whose outlet is just above the bottom of the kettle. I have only used this once now but the wort came out clearer than I have ever been able to achieve with the side drain or with a racking cane. All parts were deleaded with the peroxide/vinegar treatment. All parts were very common fittings which you could vary depending on the diameters you prefer. The one exception could be the drain fitting which was with the hot water heater stuff. I obtained everything at my local REAL hardware store where the people are really willing to help someone like me who knows little to nothing about plumbing (as I'm sure you can tell by now) , especially with what the names of parts are. Many times the folks at the big warehouse type places aren't much help to someone ignorant about these sorts of things. All the parts are essentially permanently joined together except for the nut that holds the whole thing tight against the wall of the kettle (and of course the copper srub pad. Easy assembly and can be taken off the kettle for easy cleanup. Important: Don't cut the whole in the side of the kettle on the welded seam. I haven't done this but I understand that the seam can be damaged if you do. I had a welder do this for me. - -- Fred L. Johnson Apex, North Carolina - -- Fred L. Johnson Apex, North Carolina Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:17:35 +0930 From: Mat Farrington <mat at holon.net> Subject: Re: The Gecko Sump Report > Orlando Wyndham, through their subsidiary company Two Dogs Lemonade > launched "Rhubarb Rhubarb", a new alcopop, in the southern states of > Australia... Rhubard rhubarb has been around for a while. It came out in late 1996. Pernod Ricard (through their Australian subsidiary Orlando Wynham) bought into Two Dogs in April 1997, i.e., AFTER the launch of Rhubarb Rhubard in the "southern states" of Australia. > (Good grief! they must have been influenced by the recent HBD thread). Not unless the "recent thread" started two years ago. :-) Return to table of contents
Date: 22 Jun 98 00:13:38 MDT (Mon) From: rcd at raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn) Subject: mulberries (Sorry for indirect context here.) > AlK gives info on different berries and I was wondering if any one has info > on mulberries. I have a tree in the yard that is drooping with ripe fruit > and it is all I can do to keep up with the harvesting. So far I have > collected a gallon of berries over 3 days and expect to get another gallon > or two over the next couple of weeks. > > What is the sugar content of the fruit and what should I make with it? Historically speaking, you probably should make a mead, as this seems to be what folks must have done with mulberries. I come at this as follows: * Mead gives you a more delicate background so that you don't overwhelm delicate fruits. * People make "fruit mead" (melomel, meaning honey+fruit fermented to- gether) using almost any fruit you can imagine. * A few particular fruits make melomels which have specific names-- rather than just "melomel" there's a name for that fruit fermented with honey. Among them: pyment (honey+grape), cyser (honey+apple), and morat (honey+mulberry). [Exercise for the student: guess what rhodo- mel is.] So, the fact that there's a specific name assigned to a mulberry-mead says that this is a combination that works. Besides, this will give you a chance to offer one to your friends and say, "Here, would you like to try a bit of morat?" Guaranteed conversation- starter. As for sugar content, there's really only two good ways to get at it, given the vagaries of local bushes and conditions: * Extract juice: Freeze the berries (to break down the fruit), then thaw and press. Use a nylon mesh bag on the press. Measure SG with a hydrometer. * Ferment and test: Make up a predictable recipe, either a melomel as above or a fruit wine, using carefully measured amount of fruit. Cal- culate the expected SG without the fruit, measure weight of fruit before and measure remaining pulp after, ferment out, and use vinometer (?or ebulliometer?) to get final alcohol. This is a pain to do and it has a lot of loose variables, as you'll know if you've ever tried to get an accurate reading from a vinometer. But presumably you're only interested in ballpark numbers--you don't care if the effective sugar content is 1.050 or 1.055--so the first method is pretty good and a lot easier. - --- Dick Dunn rcd at talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA ...Mr. Natural says, "Use the right tool for the job." Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 07:26:16 -0400 From: rdavis at gator.net (Dave Williams) Subject: Homemade buffer solutions? Greetings, I recieved a pH meter for Father's day and I would like to use it this Saturday. My problem is that it didn't come with any buffer solutions to calibrate it and my HB store doesn't stock any. Is it possible to make reasonably reliable buffer solutions of known pH from readily available substances? Failing that, what type of supplier is likely to sell buffer solutions? Any help will be greatly appreciated and private email is welcome. Thanks, Dave Williams Newberry, Florida Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:44:34 -0400 From: "LARSONC%DOM13.DOPO7" <Erik.Larson at MS01.DO.treas.sprint.com> Subject: Keg Storage Date: 06/22/1998 09:31 am (Monday) From: C. Erik Larson To: EX.MAIL."post@hbd.org" Subject: Keg Storage I have 10 gallons of Dopplebock (of which I am very proud) in two Cornelius kegs, sitting at 40F in my beer 'fridge, which is located in my hot humid garage. The beer has been lagering in the fridge since mid April. I was wondering as to what the expected effects on my Dopplebock would be if I were to move the kegs from the 40F 'fridge to my 70-75F basement, and leave them there unitl the fall? To me, the hot humid Maryland summer just isn't the time to quaff a 10% abv, malty, dark beer. I want to free up space in the beer 'fridge for a couple of kegs of Weizen. Thanks, Erik Larson (erik.larson at treas.sprint.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:21:07 -0500 From: "A. J. deLange" <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: ASBC Color The ASBC procedure calls for simply measuring the absorbance at 420 nm (or is it 430 - relying on memory here), referring to a half inch cell and converting to dB i.e. multiplying the absorbance by 10. In addition, the measurement is considered valid only if the absorbance at 730 nm (or is it 720?) is less than 0.039 times the absorbance at the shorter wavelength. This insures that the beer being measured is clear enough that the attenuation is due to absorption and not scattering by yeast, protein globs, etc. I just grabbed the formulas I posted from BHS&Y because it was the closest book to hand and I admit I didn't look at what I was copying down. When I saw Al's post the "rules of thumb" (for the purposes of the BJCP exam at least) came immediately to mind: EBC is approximately twice SRM and SRM is approximately equal to Lovibond. It is important to note that the Lovibond method originally used bottles (with, as I recall, calibrated iodine solutions) and subsequently glasses (i.e. pieces of colored glass) in a visual comparator. The modern methods (ASBC, EBC) use spectrophotometry thus removing the subjective aspect. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:51:04 +0100 From: Richard Parker <rparker at ims.ltd.uk> Subject: Wort Chiller Construction Hi all, A friend of mine (no names, no pack drill) works for a large pump manufacturer, and being a (lapsed) fellow home brewer was anxious to help when I decided to build a counterflow wort chiller. What he's come up with is probably overkill, it's 6 x 1 foot lengths of .5 inch finned copper tubing. It's rather hard to describe, so the pictures (gotta borrow the camera at lunch time) are appearing on my web site at http://members.tripod.com/~richparker/homebrew/wortchill.htm shortly. The finning(?) is folded fine copper wire, 40 turns on each length and 50 folds per turn. My maths isn't what it used to be but I make that about 160' of wire per length!!! So, given that some VERY professional cooling tubes have fallen into my lap I don't want to screw this up, can you all help with design ideas? Question 1. In series or in parallel? IE do I pass the wort through all of the lengths of tube one after another, or let it run through a length, oh this is really hard to describe... I could fit all the tubes together using .5 inch tubing and fittings to give a single 6'+ length of tube and pass the hot wort through it with a water jacket around it, or I could have a reservoir at the top and the bottom and join the two with 6 x 1' lengths of tubing, put the a water jacket around the tubes and pass the wort through all 6 at once. Now the first option (series) has it's problems. The piping is not a standard plumbing size, it's a standard refrigerant size (the spec sheets are on their way so I'll know exactly) and I'm wary about using solder to fit them together, compression fittings? The second option is more complex in that I'd need to get an engineer to create the reservoirs and the rest of it from stainless. But it's probably worth the cash for a proper job. Thoughts? Question 2. Safety and hygiene. I'd have to carefully wash out the interior of the tubing I know, but with what? I don't want any oil etc. or heavy metals. If it comes down to soldering/brazing this stuff what do I (or the engineer) use? Thanks for your time, (Kowtows to the collective and leaves backwards banging forehead on floor) Rich Richard Parker, Brewing in York UK Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:14:39 +0000 From: "Joe Shope" <jshope at bioserver.vsb.usu.edu> Subject: cola flavors Last fall I brewed an oatmeal stout that had distinct cola like flavors (Pepsi to be exact). Since I had never brewed this recipe before I attributed the flavor to a procedural error or the flaked oats and barley. This spring I brewed a sweet stout that also had strong cola flavors. I have brewed this recipe several times before without the cola flavor. I have heard that cardamon can produce a cola flavor, but I did not use any. I have examined the beer under a scope and don't see any bacteria in it. I did use chocolate malt given to me by a friend who was moving away in both batches. Is it possible that the chocolate malt contributed the off flavor due to being old or mishandled? Is there a procedural error that can produce these flavors? Joe Shope Head Brewer/Bottlewasher Apostate Brewing Co. Crash Valley, UT Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:37:34 -0400 From: "Matthew J. Harper" <matth at progress.com> Subject: Skunking & Bitching Scott Abene asks: "When exactly can a beer skunk? Directly after the boil is chilled or only after fermentation has taken place?" This will be a tad under-technical... 'Skunking' results from a reaction between light (wavelength I don't recall) and the hops in the beer. As has been discussed much in the past brown glass prevents the wavelength in question far better than green glass (which is only slightly better than clear it turns out.) Skunking can happen anytime after the boil, but doesn't tend do so until the beer is a finished product (aka bottled or poured into a glass) because of the amount of light the product encounters during that time period. Further, skunkiness *does* subside if the light is removed. Tested it myself, you can too: Take a couple of beers, leave them in the sun for a while on a hot summer day. For diversity use one closed bottle, on opened bottle and a couple of glasses. I found stuff skunked after about 15 minutes. I also found that if I moved the glasses out of the sun the skunkiness subsided; both to my nose & others. Wasn't gone, just lessened. As a result I keep my beer out of the light, always. Fermenter gets a nice college T-shirt to wear... :-) Bitchin': I'm invoking my right as a member to voice my opinion once: <grin> I'm tired of the attitudes & bitchin going on. Enough that I looked back through the last few weeks digest to find that by and large most of the people bitchin most about others being arrogant or belittling others typically posted NO useful info; just shared their opinions about how we should be pissed at Al K. and others. Why do these folks feel it is acceptable to take up bandwidth writing about NOTHING while taking those who offer SOMETHING to task? Boggles the mind! At the very least *please* include something about botulism when canning starter wort or ask if any good breweries can be found in East Podunk... -Matth Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:45:02 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Citrus Notes Paul Ward <paulw at doc.state.vt.us> sang paeans to Mountain Brewers' 'Long Trail IPA': >I am overwhelmed by the citrusy character. It's like >drinking a grapefruit beer. I *LOVE* this stuff! <snip> >but how do they get that amount of grapefruit flavor. Let me suggest something radical - ask the brewer. You might get rebuffed, but you just might get your answer. I was pleasantly surprised when I got pretty much all I asked for about Oberon (formerly Solsun) wheat beer at Larry Bell's Kalamazoo Brewing Co. Identify yourself as a homebrewer and ask intelligent questions. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 10:57:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Respiration and the Crabtree Effect I've gotten a number of emails asking about yeast respiration and (from a completely different post, I believe) about the Crabtree Effect. Since these are related, I'll post a quite summary of the two topics. Saccharomyces display what is known as the "Crabtree Effect" which causes the yeast to forego respiration and go straight to fermentation even though there is oxygen present. A glucose concentration of more than 0.4% will cause the Crabtree Effect (other sugars also cause the effect, but more sugar is required to induce it) so as you can see, since wort has WAY more than 0.4% glucose (yes, even all-grain), under normal brewing conditions, Saccharomyces will not respire. Note also that "respiration" is *NOT* simply the uptake of oxygen. Yeast will uptake oxygen for sterol and fatty acid synthesis, and in fact it's important for good alcohol tolerance. "Respiration" is the use of oxygen for the metabolism of sugars. Yeast *don't* use the oxygen for sugar metabolism (under normal conditions, i.e. make wort, pitch yeast), so they don't "respire." Numerous authors have used the term "respiration" to simply mean the uptake of oxygen, but this is not *technically* correct from a biological point-of-view. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:19:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Samuel Mize <smize at ns1.imagin.net> Subject: sugars; big systems; mash warmer; spicy posts; mash vs lauter tuns; sax & violins > From: "Jay Spies" <spiesjl at mda.state.md.us> > Subject: candi sugar substitute Also, along the sugar vein, does anyone know what I could substitute in a Trippel for clear candi sugar? For the clear stuff, just use table sugar. Candi sugar was invented as a more-pure form when table sugar was not as refined as it is today. (It used to have atrocious table manners...) Dark sugar is partly caramelized. Check the HBD archives or the Brewery library for a discussion on doing this at home. - - - - - - - - - - > Subject: Really Really Big Batches and stuff > I have recently started experimenting with large batch sizes. Say 30-40 > gallons at a time. While I would't burn vermin over it -- that is, I don't personally give a rat's ash -- you might consider whether you're posting/publishing data that shows you're breaking US law. The limit is 100 gallons per adult, 200 in a household with more than one adult. So if you have three adults, one must move to another house to get his/her 100 gallons per year. Our heavy-handed social policies contribute to the break-up of the extended family and the destruction of our social fabric. - - - - - - - - - - > From: irajay at ix.netcom.com > Subject: Re: Mashing Equipment > I have discovered that if you put a pot of boiling > water into the igloo along with the mash, the mash maintains its > temperature for an hour and my extractions have been remarkably close > to what I have predicted. Now that's a good, sensible thought. I expect any kind of thermal mass, like a hot rock, would work -- kind of like using a hot brick as a bed warmer. A pot of boiling water is convenient. Excellent insight! I'm glad Bill posted his comments about coolers and oven mashing, even though both topics have been well-trodden in the past. Something new always comes up. - - - - - - - - - - > From: "Brian Rezac" <brian at aob.org> > Subject: Spice Beer > (Sorry about the long introduction. It just nice to be talking > about brewing. Thanks.) That's the one paragraph you didn't need. The rest was interesting, informative, and fun. Thanks much for the long introduction! - - - - - - - - - - > From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com> > Subject: my 1/2 barrel cooker, comments > Several months ago I went down the path of building a garage system based > on a converted 1/2 barrel (legally obtained) and wanted to share a few of > my discoveries with the home brew community. Good post, I enjoyed it (and I'm not even wanting to make a large system). - - - - - - - - - - > From: lheavner at tcmail.frco.com (Lou Heavner) > Subject: separate mash and lauter tuns > I am curious as to how brewers move the mash > from the mash tun to the lauter tun. Seems like a good opportunity > for hot side aeration is one is not careful. Hand transfer seems > mighty tedious. Anybody care to describe their technique? Dave Draper discussed these very issues on HBD, some time ago. His summary article is in the Brewery web site's library: http://brewery.org/brewery/library/HSA_DD95.html - - - - - - - - - - > From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> > Subject: All That's Pu does not glitter? > "(bring up violin volume to pianissimo,now) > > Bring it up to very soft? Bit of a conflict there maestro. If he brought it up any louder he'd be wasting bandwidth. :-) Best, Sam Mize - -- Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada Multi-part MIME message: " ", " ", " " (hands waving) Fight Spam - see http://www.cauce.org/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:21:35 -0500 From: "Robert D. Dittmar" <Robert.D.Dittmar at stls.frb.org> Subject: Carry-On Homebrew I just wanted to drop a word of caution for the collective on passing out homebrew to people traveling by air. This weekend I attended my brother's wedding, and gave away some brew to relatives. My mother and grandfather put the beer in their carry-on luggage, and said beer was confiscated by the people who do the baggage checks at the gate. In all fairness to the security people, I suppose that they thought that it was vaguely possible that I had filled two unmarked 22 oz. bottles with nitro-glycerin or hydrocyanic acid, capped them, and given them to my relatives to carry aboard the plane. Its their job to be cautious when confronted by carry-on items whose contents are less than transparent, so their reactions may be unpredictable in response to spying a bottle of homebrew, especially an unlabeled one. I just thought I'd warn the collective and save someone future disappointment. If you, your friends, or relatives are taking some homebrew home on a plane, pack it away in your luggage, not your carry-on bag. Rob Dittmar St. Louis, MO Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:03:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Samuel Mize <smize at ns1.imagin.net> Subject: Public replies and fearful newcomers Yet another non-brewing post, page down now. This is about how HBD and similar online forums work. I'm using Paul Niebergall's post as a springboard to express some thoughts of my own. - - - - - - - - - - > >The fact of the matter is that while I was off in the hospital, 20 or > >30 questions went unanswered. > ... > I as well as many others answered these questions via private e-mail. Good. However, that's invisible to the rest of us. You might have dropped the HBD a note saying "I sent N. Ewbie info about HSA" or whatever. Some claim that public answers serve only the venal accrual of vainglorious self-aggrandization. (Is that pompous enough? I'm trying for varsity.) I post replies publicly for five major reasons: 1. It makes it visible that the question got answered. This may reduce excessively redundant replies, and it reassures others that questions DO get answered. 2. In forums like this, typically if one person asked a question, five or ten "lurkers" have the same question but have not yet asked it -- they benefit from reading the answer. (The archives can be a great resource, but they can also be a forest when you need to see one tree.) 3. If I make a mistake in the answer, it will get corrected. This has happened to me. Embarassing as it was, I was glad the person got the right data and didn't go forward believing my mistake du jour. 4. It often stimulates discussion. OK, this may be a tired retread like Dave-vs-Al-on-Cl*n*t*st (don't want to set off any reply bots :-). But, substantive discussions have often come from comments about basic procedures. I learn from these. 5. It builds a sense of community. Dave, Dave, George, George, and Al are personalities to me, not just names somewhere. We interact in private to build friendships; we interact in public to build a community. In short, I post replies in public because that's what we're supposed to do -- that's how HBD is designed to work. - - - - - - - - - - >... people with good opinions are being > driven off-line for fear of impending head bashing. Before you say this again, please provide at least one example where a new poster got "head bashed." What are you talking about? > How many times have you seen a post that begins: > > *Gee, I*ve been lurking for a long time - I usually don*t post....* Generally followed by a chorus of welcomes, invitations to keep posting, and friendly answers. > Or > *Sorry if this is wasting bandwidth, but I have a question, please don*t > hurt me......* > Or > *With the permission of the gods of home brew, I come to you on my knees > to humbly ask my ignorant question.....* > > Why is this happening? It*s like people are scared to post to the HBD. Gee, I guess the premise that they are using humor didn't occur to you. And to directly answer your question: I've never seen ANYTHING that abject or self-negating. I personally think such comments are a waste of bandwidth, but if it makes people more comfortable about posting for the first time, OK. If you know people who are fearful of posting, I assume you do everything you can to encourage them. Please let me know if there is some concrete action I can take to encourage them. Perhaps you could serve as an unofficial ombudsman -- or a helper, if that's too pompous -- to encourage them to post to the HBD. We DO want new people to post. We don't assault new people here unless they cop an "attitude" and insult us. Show me as many as one examples to the contrary. (It's your claim, you should show evidence.) I've disagreed with (I think) all of our local "Ogres of Intimidation," without getting a flame or a sharp word. I used a secret weapon: courtesy. I'm not talking about grovelling, just the simple courtesy any human deserves (for instance, not calling his legitimate but different opinion "humbug" or "bunk"). There is a good way to make a forum like this into what you want it to be, and that is by contributing (as you have done before), and encouraging like-minded people to contribute. If all those people who sent you "me-too"s were strongly active, the folks you complain about would be lost in the noise. - - - - - - - - - - > Is bandwidth a commodity or something? Yes. HBD is limited to one 50K email per day. This is an intentional bandwidth limitation, which works in tandem with the "cancel" function. The idea is that people will answer questions publicly, for the benefits I listed above. However, if you see several replies already in the queue, you can cancel your reply and reduce redundant repetition. In other online forums, "wasting bandwidth" refers to using the resources of the forum for something outside the forum's stated purpose. This increases the resource usage (cost), and it makes it harder to sift through and find the items of real interest. It's also used sarcastically in the sense of "quit wasting air on this." Best to all, Sam Mize - -- Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada Fight Spam - see http://www.cauce.org/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:19:37 -0400 From: "David Kerr" <dkerr at semc.org> Subject: I'm no William Safire, but... Sam Mize regarding the endless tone and tenor debate: "...I'm tired of nimrods telling us what jerks we are, then saying WE need to lighten up if we don't like it. We've been having a good time here. We're light. You're the one with the complaint. Lighten up. This is absolutely, positively my last post on this subject. Unless somebody pisses me off again." Nimrod: >From m-w.com: 1 : a descendant of Ham represented in Genesis as a mighty hunter and a king of Shinar 2 not capitalized : HUNTER Regarding name calling, grammar and vocabulary, I unintentionally slammed Al K once for nit-picking (the tone that I had attempted to set was more of a gentle chide, but the subject line came across as pretty insulting). Two weeks later, what I received from Al was a polite and helpful private response to a pLambic question that I had erroneously posted to the HBD. If I had to take sides, I'd take his. MPDKW (my page down key works). Dave Kerr - Needham, MA "Be good and you will be lonely" - Mark Twain Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 12:21:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Samuel Mize <smize at ns1.imagin.net> Subject: Fearful lurkers, please help me >... people with good opinions are being > driven off-line for fear of impending head bashing. I am pleading with anyone who agrees with that comment. I honestly don't understand this fear thing. I'm not arguing against your feelings. I don't get it, so I can't see how to change it. We don't want to discourage anyone. But we can't accept, understand or improve based on "I don't like you, and I won't explain." What posts make you feel fearful or unwelcome? If you don't want to post an answer, email me. I promise I will not argue with you, although I may ask further questions trying to understand. If I get a useful feel for this, I'll post a summary. I need to understand specific problems. "Pompous," "arrogant" and "intimidating" are judgements in your head. I want to understand what causes you to make that judgement. But I DON'T currently share your judgement, so telling me "some posts are too pompous" is like telling me they're "too granular." I can imagine a dozen things you might mean, and probably none matches your ideas. Have there been posts to neophytes that were abusive? Are you nervous because people defend their positions strongly in advanced discussions? What is it? As a forum, we want you to feel welcome. I personally want to help. Best to all, Sam Mize - -- Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada Fight Spam - see http://www.cauce.org/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 11:40:10 -0400 From: Marc.Arseneau at fluordaniel.com Subject: Rebel without a Cause / Belgian Strong Ales I once read that the Irish don't know what they want, but are willing to die for it. Maybe that explains my involvement in CAMRA. Anyway, I was wondering if the collective has an idea why commercial beers are exempt from the laws requiring food items to list their ingredients. Or nutritional information. I have seen some beers list ingredients, but it seems to be a voluntary action, usually only taken by beers that are made entirely from malt. =============================================== And the recent thread on Belgian strong ales has finally prodded me into making one. The Wyeast 1388 is on order (wasn't in stock for some reason), but I still haven't settled on a recipe. Any suggestions? I'm aiming more for a Trippel or a Duvel than a Double. I hope to substitute something else for the Belgian candi sugar, and judging from the recent posts, table sugar is the leading substitute?? Never thought I would see the day when I would be putting THAT into an all-grain beer. Marc Arseneau Rothesay, New Brunswick (that's in Canada, by the way) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:47:15 -0500 From: Jim Layton <a0456830 at rlemail.dseg.ti.com> Subject: Re. separate mash and lauter tuns Lou Heavner asked to hear from someone that transfers the mash from the mash tun to the lauter tun by hand. Here you go. First, let me say that I'm flexible. When I'm working with pale ale malt, I usually do a single temperature mash in my insulated (10 gallon Gott) lauter tun. It's quick, easy, and it works. With some styles, e.g.. wit, weiss, and all lagers, I prefer to do multiple temperature mashes or decoction mashes. I like to use a separate, heatable mash tun for these because 1) you can end up with a very thin mash if using boiling water to raise temps, 2) I don't trust myself to hit the desired temp every time when adding a decoction back to the main mash. A heatable tun makes it easy to correct mistakes on the low side, and 3) I don't have a heatable lauter tun. I transfer from my 8 gallon pot (mash tun) to my Gott (lauter tun) using a 1 quart pyrex cup. I try to minimize splashing by lowering the cup to the bottom of the lauter tun and gently pouring the mash out. You can just slide it out of the cup after a few inches of mash are in. It's no big deal for a 5 gallon batch, but I'd hate to do this for a 50 gallon batch. As for aeration of the hot mash, well, I suppose it is a potential problem. After all, I do try to minimize splashing during transfer of the mash, so I worry about it just like you do. The bottom line is that I've made a few good beers like this. One of them is a Munich Helles I made using a single decoction mash which won 1st place at two competitions this Spring and qualified for the MCAB. It was 6 months old at the time. It had been shipped from Texas to Florida during warm Spring weather using a commercial parcel delivery service. If HSA was a problem in this beer, it wasn't a big problem. We all make do with the equipment we have until we get better equipment. I'd like to have a lauter tun like Al K's, and someday I probably will. Even then I'll likely continue decoction mashing on occasion, and that means I'll be scooping and transferring hot mash. In the grand scheme of home brewing, I'd rank careful mash transfers as one of the lesser reasons for concern. Jim Layton (Howe, TX) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:16:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Samuel Mize <smize at ns1.imagin.net> Subject: Syringe - pocket beer engine Greetings, I mentioned the trick of using a syringe to build up the head on a glass of beer (suck up a few CCs and squirt back in, be ready for lots of foam). I should have mentioned that you want a syringe WITHOUT a needle. You can get these for oral medicines. Jeff Renner first posted this to HBD. Best, Sam Mize - -- Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada Fight Spam - see http://www.cauce.org/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:29:10 -0400 From: "Tkach, Christopher" <tkach at cabletron.com> Subject: Re: Citrus Notes Paul- I'm sure that Longtrail doesn't do this, but I brewed an Old Ale that had a strong grapefruit flavor to it when it was young, and I attribute it to first wort hopping (FWH) with Cascade. I think (my notes are at home) I used 2 oz of Cascade FWH'd, and bittered with Centennial and (gasp!) Chinook. The beer had a strong grapefruit flavor at bottling that (slowly) dissipated with age. Try searching the archives around October - December of last year for 'grapefruit' for more info, but you are right, I'm sure the grapefruit flavor can be attributed to Centennial and/or Cascade hops. - Chris Dover, NH Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:42:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: pectase should have been pectinase I goofed on the spelling in my earlier post... "pectase" should have been "pectinase." Just to be thorough: pectinase comes in two forms: dry and liquid. The liquid form *must* be refrigerated and will spoil after a few days at room temperature (just like Isinglass). Al. P.S. Wasting bandwidth applies in two cases: 1) some people actually pay per downloaded byte, and 2) only about 44K bytes make it into every HBD, so posts that add nothing to the HBD cause worthwhile posts to be delayed. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:09:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> Subject: Colour calculations Graham writes: >I do not have >access to ASBC analysis methods, but looking at various spreadsheet >thingies published in BT etc, it seems that American home brewers estimate >beer colour from grain on a pounds-per-gallon basis. I don't know what percentage of American homebrewers use this estimation, but I'm sure that a large number don't (especially among HBDers). George and Laurie Fix addressed the nonlinearity of this estimation in an appendix to their book Vienna, Oktoberfest, Maerzen. Ray Daniels wrote a three- part series of articles on beer colour in Brewing Techniques (and there were a couple of subsequent Technical Correspondences, also in Brewing Techniques, following that series). These three authors pretty much pounded it into our heads that a simple pounds-times-Lovibond-divided- by-gallons will only work for the very pales beers. As for the 1987 change to the conversions, I believe that I first saw that in Ray Daniels' "Designing Great Beers" book. I'll ask him about it and report back if I learn anything of general interest. Al. Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL korz at xnet.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 15:10:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Samuel Mize <smize at ns1.imagin.net> Subject: Welcome to new posters! Greetings to all, In HBD 2746 we heard from three new posters (or people who haven't posted since 1 Jan 98): Tom Wolf, Andrew Ager, and Jonathan Edwards. Thanks for joining in! We encourage everyone to post with ideas, info, questions or brewing experiences. Best, Sam Mize - -- Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada Fight Spam - see http://www.cauce.org/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:21:54 EDT From: RobertS735 at aol.com Subject: RobberMaid Cooler/Mash Tun Friends/Scholars/Pugilists: I have for some unknown reason, been attracted to the recent discussion on places to purchase our beloved round rubbermaid/gott/igloo coolers/water dispenser/mash tuns. Happy to report today's purchase of 10 gallon Rubbermaid- for $17.99 plus tax, at Houston area MacFrugal's (no affiliation). They appear to be authentic, in original boxes, and still carry the 6-year warranty... $17.99 seems like a good deal to me... Now I can mash those ten pound 'o grain recipies... Bob Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 19:35:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Bayard W. Wenzel" <biomorph at moloch.mse.tay.dec.com> Subject: dark candi sugar People have been discussing the nature of belgian candi sugar. I"ve been interested in finding an alternative to the darker candi sugars for some time, mainly because the going price for the stuff in the states seems to be roughly $4/lb. The first idea that entered my mind was caramelization- make peanut brittle without the peanuts. the result was very tasty, but nowhere near as dark as dark candi sugar, and with a powerful taste. I've since read (in the HBD) that hardball caramel like this can add a nice, sweet note to yer belgian ales. Since then, I found a most interesting substance in the 'World Foods' section of the local grocery store (Star Market). It was Green Mountain brand, Jamaican style, Burnt Sugar. The stuff is black as tar, and about 3 or 4 Tbps. of it should give 5 gallons of belgian dubbel the right colour. The ingredients are listed as water, invert sugar, and caramel colour, and the 'nutrition facts' section notes trace amounts of salt (likely a byproduct of the inversion). The flavour is faintly salty, but i don't think that, for the amounts you'd end up using in beer, it'd be a problem. There's also a nice, subtle note of caramel flavour, very reminiscent of the flavour differences i've noted between light and dark candi sugar. yours in brewing, bayard Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:45:09 -0500 From: "Cloutier, Steve" <Steve_Cloutier at ATK.COM> Subject: Open Sea Fermenting Hi all, >From Keith Zimmerman in TX.... >Here is one I doubt anyone has seen on the HBD before. >A friend of mine plans on living on a yacht once he retires. He questioned >me about the >possibility of brewing on his boat. I'm not sure this is possible because >of the pitching >of the boat in rough water. I'm wondering if something could be easily >built to keep his >fermenter steady. I told him that I would check around and see if I could >by some >strange chance find someone who may have developed a way to accomplish >this feat. I haven't seen anyone reply to this one yet, so here's my .02. How about a simple gimballed carboy stand? My ancient Websters describes gimbals as the contrivance for permitting a device such as a ships compass to incline freely in any direction, so that it will remain plumb and level when it's support is tipped. The way I envision it, the framework and base could be easily made of wood - painted for protection, and secured to preclude sliding about the deck. The support structure for the carboy and gimbal rings could be formed and welded from steel or aluminum. Stainless steel pins would rotate in bronze bushings. I won't insult anyone with my poor ascii art, but maybe an ME or draftsman out there would like to take a shot at it. I continue to be amazed and delighted with the quality and quantity of useful, informative and inquisitive posts to this forum, personal bashing excepted. Some of the discussions such as A.J.'s water chemistry are about a mile over my head, but heck, it's not much fun to learn about stuff you already know. I especially liked Sam Mize' analogy of the HBD to a one room schoolhouse. That's right on the mark. We even have a couple of class clowns ;-) Steve Cloutier -Diligently gathering bits and pieces for a 2 tier system in land-locked Minneapolis. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:48:00 EDT From: Lostboy676 at aol.com Subject: RIMS/bruheat mashtun Hi all, this is my first time posting and I have to say thanks to all who repeat there posts over and over. I am one of those who is benifiting from repeat posts. It seems whenever I try to look for a subject from the archives, all I get are headaches.Having said this, I have to ask a question that I'm sure thats been asked many times ( and probably will again) I have been trying to learn about RIMS and I know that there are a lot of web sites out there to help a newbie like my self. So what are some of everyones favorites? Also I was wondering what owners of Bruheat Mash Tuns ( and similar products ) thought of there investments? Can they be incorporated into a RIMS? Thanks again to all who answer redundant and repetitive questions, and I would especially like to thank Al K and some of the others who really seems to donate alot of there time to these boards. I think you should know you are apprieciated. Privite e-mails are welcome. Dave O'Connell Return to table of contents
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