HOMEBREW Digest #2771 Sat 18 July 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  375 mL Lambic/Champagne Bottles ("J. Matthew Saunders")
  Topping Off ("Rosenzweig,Steve")
  Fermenting in Cornies ("Rosenzweig,Steve")
  JudgeNet (fwd) (Some Guy)
  RE Jethro and Jack ("Tim Fields")
  Re: Dryhopping Bohemian and Pilsner Lagers / % By Extract (Tony Barnsley)
  Re: 375 mL Lambic/Champagne Bottles ("Tomusiak, Mark")
  PubTour Thank You's/Jethro ("Philip J Wilcox")
  Re: Grist %, dry hopped lagers ("Jim Busch")
  Percentage recipe by extract or weight? (Michael Rose)
  Aerating starters (John Wilkinson)
  Source for Large O-rings for Keg Lids ("Arthur McGregor")
  Re: Short Lag Times (Scott Murman)
  Brewing classes (Steve Potter)
  Carbonation (Keith Busby)
  Percentage Shall Be Laid To Rest:   RIP ("LordPeter")
  pitching yeast when ? ("Frederick L. Pauly")
  Maple Ale datapoint (Alan Edwards)
  How do I use my counter-pressure filler? (ale)
  Maudite & La Fin du monde (Shane Cook)
  HBD brew club (Mark Tumarkin)
  Soda Kegs: Summary (David Monday)
  Re: When is a pint a pint? (Scott Murman)
  Lemon zest (TPuskar)
  Thermal mass (fridge)
  Wyeast 3068 ("Paul E. Lyon")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:05:59 -0400 From: "J. Matthew Saunders" <saunderm at vt.edu> Subject: 375 mL Lambic/Champagne Bottles Wayne_Kozun at otpp.com asks: >Has anyone tried using the 375 mL bottles that lambic come in for bottling >their beer (I believe these are actually just 375 mL champagne bottles)? and >And what if I want to cork these bottles instead of capping. Do you need a >special corker to cork champagne bottles? I cork finish part of all my batches. Not only does it really look classy when you bring a 750 over to friends which does that delightful pop, but I find in certain styles (belgian for example) the beer simply taste better coming from a cork finish. This could simply be my imagination--but ah well. In corking these bottles I use regular new straight corks. I check to make sure all the corks are sound, no cracks or big spaces that might harbour nasties. I soak and sanitize them for about a day using a crushed campden tablet and water, holding the corks in that solution by trapping them under a plate that is slightly smaller than my soaking vessle. The day of bottling, I bring them up to a gentle boil. This may be over-kill, but I've not had a cork cause me infection in a bottle yet. I cork them just the way I would cork wine. I take the top mushroom part of a champagne cork cut in 1/2, put it on top of the neck of the bottle and cage it. If you collect the little metal do-hickeys from the spent cages of champagne or lambics, you can throw one of these into your new cage as well. Put the bottle on its side in a wine rack or cardboard wine box, let age. Sometimes you will see a little seepage at the beginning and sometimes the pressure in the bottle will start forcing your cork out a bit. This is normal. When opening, you will probably need a corkscrew. Take the cage and mushroom top off and open the bottle like you would wine. Be careful when pulling the cork, there is a fair amount of pressure there and you don't want to send a cork screw across the room. M. =========================================================== The Arts in Technology--Creative Consulting and Contracting J. Matthew Saunders (540)951-3090 saunderm at vt.edu http://dogstar.bevd.blacksburg.va.us/ "We have to work in the theatre of our own time, with the tools of our own time" --Robert Edmond Jones =========================================================== Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 06:39:34 PDT From: "Rosenzweig,Steve" <Steve_Rosenzweig at wb.xerox.com> Subject: Topping Off Pete Perez in HBD 2729 asks about topping off for an extract of partial mash brew and some sparging problems: As you state you have moved into all grain brewing, you are likely to find that your amount of break material will increase from your extract brews. Topping off with plain water (preferrably boiled and chilled) is OK if you are somewhat above your target gravity and want to hit a target volume. If you already were at your target volume, all you are doing is diluting your beer to get increased volume (sometimes not a bad thing . . . I had about 3.5 gal of a rather strong PrePro Lager in a corny that I topped off with water, took it to 5 gallons and made it into a more appropriate "session" beer - it was a big hit at the family Memorial Day get together!) I find it better to incorporate the losses of my system (both break and kettle losses) into my overall recipe formulation so that if I want to end up with 5.0 gallons of beer to bottle or keg, I may actually start with 5.5 gallons in the fermenter to cover trub/break losses. In the boil pot I may have to start with about 7 gallons because I'll lose a gallon or so to the boil, and another half gallon to pellet Hop Spooge(tm) in the bottom of the kettle. That's why a 10 gallon pot is nice, but not absolutely necessary - you can use a couple of 5 gallons pots to the same effect. Before I got my 10 gallon pot, I used 2 - 5 gallon ones - and split the boil between them - roughly splitting the hops additions as well. Once you have a sense for your systems losses you can formulate your recipes accordingly - so that you end up with enough wort in the fermenter at the proper gravity that you were shooting for. On the stuck mash issue - more info is needed as to your procedures to really make any recommendations. What are your grain bills like? What are you sparging through - false bottom, copper manifold, EZ masher type gizmo? What temp are you sparging at? Keep it hot - around mash out temp of 170 has always worked for me. Calibrated your thermometer lately? Also, FWIW, I batch sparge rather than fly sparge (as you describe) - no need to synch up the flow rates, just check the level every few minutes. Good Brewing! Stephen On Brewing Hiatus in Ontario NY (except for maybe 12 gallons of mead if I can sneak it in!) ps - say Hi to Louis G! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:03:27 PDT From: "Rosenzweig,Steve" <Steve_Rosenzweig at wb.xerox.com> Subject: Fermenting in Cornies Kyle asks in HBD 2769 about fermenting in corny kegs: Since I lucked into a half dozen glass carboys at a garage sale (bringing my total to 10!), I haven't had to resort to fermenting in cornies, but I have in the past - especially nice for lagering in my beermeister (which can fit 4 cornies or 3 cornies and one 5 gallon carboy or 2 cornies and 2 - 5 gallon carboys, or 2 cornies and one 7 gallon carboy - whew! and since I like to keep one corny on tap and a spare cold, and I typically primary ferment in a 7 gallon carboy, my options are somewhat limited!) >From my experience: Secondary fermenting in a corny is better than primary, all that trub may clog up your dip tube pretty good if you try to transfer that way - after one racking, it's usually pretty manageable. I've used a corny for long secondary lagers when space in the 'meister gets tight. For an airlock, you can use a small piece of tubing that you force over the hole where the gas poppet and tube would go. Over that tubing, put a larger diameter piece of tubing that fits snugly over the small tubing and also will fit a small stopper (#5?) and put your airlock in the stopper. If you even think you may have some blow off, you may not want to use a corny, as the small hole may easily plug and create significant pressure . . . to possibly disasterous and definitely messy results! (again a good vote for use as a secondary!) Cleaning them is a bit harder than when used for kegging because of the increased trub, but not that much - a good soak and a rinse should work nicely. Brew On! Stephen On Brewing Hiatus in Ontario NY (but working down my inventory at a pretty good rate!) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:00:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: JudgeNet (fwd) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:12:17 -0400 From: Chuck Cox <chuck at synchro.com> To: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: Re: After a prolonged absence due to a server failure and transition to a new operating system, the original JudgeNet is back online. JudgeNet is a public digest for the discussion of topics of interest to beer competition judges and organizers. JudgeNet is moderated by BJCP master beer judge Chuck Cox <chuck at synchro.com> and is sponsored by SynchroSystems. To subscribe to JudgeNet, send a message to mailserver at synchro.com containing: subscribe judge Please note that it is not my intention to be contentious with the new judge digest. I had already made a significant investment in reviving JudgeNet when the new digest was announced, and hate to see that effort wasted. Perhaps the two digests can evolve to serve different needs. I am willing to be quite flexible about the future of JudgeNet and welcome your suggestions. Please distribute this message to others who may be interested in JudgeNet. - Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - <chuck at synchro.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:18:12 -0400 From: "Tim Fields" <tfields at his.com> Subject: RE Jethro and Jack In #2767 Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> asks: >Who or what is Jethro Gump and why does someone name Rob Moline >post it? Jethro owns a shrimp business, and he dabbles in writing. He lives with his family in Beverly Hills. I also heard he brews a little homebrew occasionally... and they have some pretty wild parties. I have no idea who Rob is. Perhaps it's a Jeykle and Hyde thing with that notoriously strong ale Jethro brews when the moon is full. And, in 2768 The Holders <zymie at sprynet.com> replied: >Who or what is Jack Schmidling and why does someone name Jack >Schmidling >post it? Jack is a famous astronomer - you haven't heard of him? Interestingly enough, his main claim to fame is a grain mill used to crush malted barley and such for brewing. Apparently he originally designed the mill to crush asteroid and comet chunks for galaxial analysis. I can vouch for the mill as a brewing tool, but as to the other ... I also heard he likes dogs, but I have no idea if that has anything to do with the grain mill. - ------------------- Tim Fields Fairfax, Va tfields at his.com ... www.his.com/tfields Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 15:39:31 +0100 From: Tony Barnsley <Tony.Barnsley at riva-group.com> Subject: Re: Dryhopping Bohemian and Pilsner Lagers / % By Extract Al K Said in HBD #2769 "I don't have Dave Line's book, but it has been posted in HBD that he does indeed recommend dryhopping lagers, although at a much lower rate than recommended by Miller. We should also remember that Line was British and his methods were no doubt influenced by British commercial brewers." I had a look at Dave Lines books and can only find two recipes for Lagers that are dry hopped, Oddly enough Pilsner Urquell 12g Saaz in 25L and Lowenbrau Light Blonde Special 15g Saaz in 25L That's from the 26 Lager recipes included in Brewing Beers. Of course you must remember that these recipes were formulated in 1978, ideas often change over time. It could be that Dave's interpretation of the beer 'at that time' lead him to conclude that the beers were dry hopped. Brewers were much less forthcoming about their practices that long ago. Graham Wheeler said to me in a recent mail that some British brewers are still very secretive about some of their recipes e.g. Scottish Courage. And now onto % by extract Al also said in #2769 "A question for the collective: When you say you made a beer with "50% wheat," do you mean you got 50% of the extract from wheat or do you mean that you used 5 pounds of barley malt and 5 pounds of wheat malt? When you write "...I used 10% Aromatic in my Altbier -- the rest being Munich" did you figure out points and then do the division or did you just use 3 pounds of Aromatic and 27 pounds of Munich?" Sorry Al, But I usually quote a recipe as % by Extract, and yes I do calculate the points first and do the division and then calculate the weight. Its a painful process and that's why I let a spreadsheet do the work for me. You are right in that it becomes important when adding sugars as these often have widely differing points whereas most grains have roughly the same points. Wassail ! Tony, M.i.B (Mashing in Blackpool, Lancashire, UK) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:54:44 -0700 From: "Tomusiak, Mark" <tomusiak at amgen.com> Subject: Re: 375 mL Lambic/Champagne Bottles Wayne asks about bottling beer in 375 ml or 750 ml champagne-style bottles. I have just recently bottled two beers in bottles of this style (a biere de garde in chimay-type brown bottles and a saison in green champagne bottles) and thought I would share my experience. First of all, I haven't been able to find crown caps of the larger, euro-dimension anywhere - the only way I have made this work in the past is by obtaining american champagne bottles (dumpster-diving...) which will accomodate regular size crown caps. The two beers I just bottled I ended up corking with "premium" wine corks using a large metal corker rented from a homebrew store, which has an impressive ability to squish corks into tiny shapes. The first beer (biere de garde) I left about 3/4 inch of the cork sticking out of the bottle and then wired the corks down, and the second beer (saison) I pushed the corks in all the way and wired them down as best I could. A couple of observations: * Some of the corks leak. I store the bottles on their sides to prevent the corks from drying out, and since the corks are fairly porous (compared to real "champagne" corks which are made of tightly pressed cork particulates) some beer does end up oozing out. This wasn't too bad with the biere de garde, but is worse with the saison as I primed it at a higher level. * The wire cages are a must. Many of the corks have attempted to escape the bottles within a week or so after bottling. The biere de garde turned out fine, although I have yet to taste much cellar character (still pretty young), and the saison is still conditioning so the jury is out. One last note on the 375 ml lambic bottles - I have used them to bottle sparkling mead and capped them with plastic champagne corks, which sucked - many of the bottes did not seal properly and lost carbonation. Mark Tomusiak, Boulder Colorado. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:09:38 -0400 From: "Philip J Wilcox"<pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com> Subject: PubTour Thank You's/Jethro From: Philip J Wilcox at CMS on 07/16/98 11:09 AM HBDers, Jack--Others have speculated on the Jethro, heres mine on the Gump!.... - ------ My brewer always told me, homebrew is like a box of chocolates, ya never know what ya gonna git.... My Eastern Seaboard tour took me to 7 breweries in 12 days on a 3,300 mile Journey. I think I might have missed a few along the way. (I guess Ill have to do it over again...;<) I'd like to thank a few people for meeting my wife and I at their favorite pubs and as well as for their kind hospitality in touring there own homes and breweries. Amy Wajda-Virginia Beverage Co. in Alexandria, VA. Good to see you again. Mark Tumarkin-The Brewery in the Jungle. (Gainsville) It still shocks me that the Market Street Pub is an extract brewery! Barry Wertheimer, Knoxville, Calhoun's Brewpub, Your beers made it home safely, can't wait to try them. Apologies go to Jeffrey Glenn, I couldn't find your ## once we got on the road.--ask Barry to share! and finally Head Brewer Paul Phillapon at BrewMasters in Cincinnati. This place is a Brewery, a pub, and a Brew-on-premise all in one. It may only be a 3bbl system, but they still had 12 beers on tap!!! I'd also like to thank a couple of folks for good suggestions: Mike, maagm at rica.net, Baltimore Brewing Co. was the best overall brewpub of the whole trip!! Mike Bardallis, Ditto on the BBC, I tried to commit mayhem to get to the Warf-rat, but the SO wouldn't have any of it. I guess she figured that the 7 6oz samples and the stein of Doppelbock were enough for a night... And last, definitely not least, Probably most--My wife, Janine, for allowing my hobby to infiltrate our vacation and for suggesting the Southend Brewery and Smokehouse in Charleston. It was the first steam fired Brewpub I've ever run into. Also the only pub I visited twice! In case your counting that only 6. The seventh was The Battery also in Charleston, a small sandwich shop that has a 3 bbl mashtun in the display case in the front window, and the kettle in the other window. That's it, no pipes, no electricity, no chiller, no mill, no HLT. I figured they had to have been getting contract brews since all I saw was a kettle and Mash tun that were obviously for display only... Not the case. They brew once a month and they close the restaurant and clear out the tables in order to assemble the brewery. The rest of the equipment is in the attic/loft! What a lot of work! Phil Wilcox Poison Frog Home Brewery Jackson, Mi Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:18:17 +0000 From: "Jim Busch" <jim at victorybeer.com> Subject: Re: Grist %, dry hopped lagers Percentages of grist per malt variety in recipes are always specified in terms of percent of total weight, not extract. Go with the pros on this one and ignore the homebrewer oriented text(s). Ive never heard of a German lager that is dryhopped on a standard basis. Probably exceptions but not the norm and I seriously doubt that Warsteiner is dry hopped. I have had a microbrewed lager from Ca that was dry hopped and while it was very nice it was not the same beer style at all. Prost! Jim Busch Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:40:05 -0700 From: Michael Rose <mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net> Subject: Percentage recipe by extract or weight? To those HBDers who have written or are familiar with some of the homebrew reciepe programs that have been written------- Do the programs calculate the grain needed by the weight of the grain or by the extract available in the grain? Thanks Michael Rose Riverside, CA mrose at ucr.campus.mci.net Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 98 10:18:29 CDT From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson) Subject: Aerating starters I think I asked this not long ago but if there was an answer I missed it. Does it do any good to aerate/oxygenate starters after the sugars are consumed? Do the yeast only use the oxygen while they are consuming the sugar? On another note, if you think a bar is serving short pints, tell them. If it bothers you too much, take your trade elsewhere. If one bar sells 12 oz. "pints" for $3 and another sells 16oz. pints for $4 the price per ounce is the same. If you don't like the deal, don't make it. I think that would be a lot better than the cost and hassle of government measures police. By the way, Bennigans (in Texas at least) sells their beer in true US pint glasses with a mark. Some have pretty good beers on tap and several bottled beers. The one I frequent has Pilsner Urquell, Fuller's ESB, Guinness, and Murphy's Irish Stout on tap. They are a little pricey at $4.95/pint but the pints are 16 oz. if that is a concern. I have no connection to Bennigan's other than as a customer. John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at wss.dscccc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:37:46 -0400 From: "Arthur McGregor" <MCGREGAP at acq.osd.mil> Subject: Source for Large O-rings for Keg Lids Hi Everyone! I'm looking for a source for 'food-grade' o-ring/gaskets for my keg lids. I know Williams Brewing Company has them (I ordered some and they are NOT 'food grade' IMO since they have a rubber tire smell and taste -- See HBD #2766. BTW I've only received one response to my post on off-smell/taste with the keg lid 0-rings. ) I thought that a homebrew supplier had a larger, softer square-ish o-ring that was designed to seal leaky kegs, but I can't seem to find it in the Archives. TIA. Hoppy Brewing , Art McGregor (Lorton, VA) mcgregap at acq.osd.mil Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:17:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com> Subject: Re: Short Lag Times Alan Edwards wrote: > I've contended on several occasions that using an aerating stone is > a big waste of time and money. If you want to reduce your lag times, > you would do better to concentrate on pitching enough yeast (making > a starter), and worry a little less about geting the wort supersaturated > with pure O2. Where did this notion that oxygenating the wort will reduce lag times get started? I've never read anything that would support this idea, and in fact if I'm understanding things correctly, adding O2 will *increase* your lag times, if anything. Am I missing something here? >From what I understand, the purpose of adding O2 is simply to provide the yeast with enough building blocks to create ATP (or whatever the dang chemical acronym is), so that they can perform a healthy reproduction. This is useful if you plan on re-pitching your yeast a number of times, or ferment sans trub, which our Brewer Down Under has noted will also aid the reproduction process. The main benefit seems to be maintaining healthy yeast, which leads to greater alcohol tolerance, fewer off flavors, and less dead yeast excrement. Yada, yada. Where the heck is this notion of shorter lag times coming from? Common misconception? SM (for the record: I oxygenate with pure O2, and have ever since I found it cured my high FG problems) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:35:05 -0500 From: Steve Potter <spotter at MERITER.COM> Subject: Brewing classes Dear Collective, I just received the schedule of brewery workshops from the Milwaukee Area Technical College. For those of you close enough to drive to the classes which are held in West Allis, I highly encourage you to do so. If the previous class I attended is any indication, you will receive high quality information from some of the top people in the industry. (No affiliation...Just a very satisifed student of one of the previous courses) September 12 - Sensory Evaluation of Beers - Basics of tasting - Taste session 1 - water and beer - Key Flavor Compontents of beer - Taste Session II - beers and common reference standards October 10 - Beer styles and Evaluation - Historical Background - Key attributes that define a beer - Survey of beers - ingredients, processing, outcomes, and tasting November 7 - Yeast Laboratory, Hands On - General microscopic examination - Cell counts and Viability Staining - Calculation of Pitching rates - Acid washing yeast The classes cost $65 each and they include good donuts! For more information contact Patricia Wolf at (414) 456-5477 I also was informed that starting in Spring of 1999, MATC will be offering cerificate programs in three areas of brewing operations. They will offer a 96 hour entry level program, a 96 hour science and technology intermediate level program, and a 48 hour business operations program. They are looking for input on scheduling of classes - weekdays, weeknights, or weekends. If you live close enough to Milwaukee to attend and would like to complete a survey, e-mail me directly and I will shoot you a copy of the survey. If you don't live close enough to Milwaukee to attend these sessions, start encouraging your local technical schools to offer some brewing classes! Steve Potter Madison, WI Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:37:32 -0500 From: Keith Busby <kbusby at ou.edu> Subject: Carbonation I have had a couple of batches, a Wit and a Grand Cru, recently turn out undercarbonated (5 gals., syrup with 2/3 corn sugar added at bottling). There are at least three common denominators: bottles rinsed with Iodophor and left to drain on bottle-tree (not rinsed with water after), coriander, and Curacao peel. Could any of these have caused undercarbonation? Keith Busby Keith Busby George Lynn Cross Research Professor University of Oklahoma Center for Medieval and Renaissance Studies 780 Van Vleet Oval, Room 202 Norman, OK 73019 Tel.: (405) 325-5088 Fax: (405) 325-0103 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:35:28 -0700 From: "LordPeter" <BARLEYWINE at prodigy.net> Subject: Percentage Shall Be Laid To Rest: RIP Although you may get repeatable results (if your grain supplier is consistent, and you stick with them) by using % of total grain weight, if you are interested in knowing what is really going on in your bill, you must use % extract. The point is that we are looking for a certain wort, not a certain grist. The grist is the means to the end. I wrote this to Mike Rose in private e-mail, but after seeing AlK's post HBD #2769 I've decided to submit to the collective. Although I am relatively new to the HBD, I have been a poster before, and you can expect me around. Thank you Sam. So, concerning Mike's posting about % and Ray Daniels book: I haven't looked at Daniels Book (although I met him once in Chicago), but I agree that you must use the extract from each grain, not a weight. 5 pounds of M&F pale will give a very different amount of extract than 5 lbs of Briess 2 row. The first thing you need to do is figure out how much extract you need to achieve your gravity. I use the Siebel Institute's brew computer (which is a handy little slide rule tool), but you can also use charts such as the one in Noonan's Brewing Lager beer pg 261-2. For instance, I want a OG of 1060. Noonan says 1.3 lbs extract per gallon. Brew computer says 15.6 kg/hl. Now convert this to the volume of wort you need, say, 5.5 gallons. Noonan: 1.3 X 5.5 = 7.15 lbs Computer: 5.5 gal X 3.79 l/gal = 20.845 liters; (15.6 kg/hl)(1 hl/100liters)(20.845 liters) = 3.25182 kg; (3.25182 kg)(2.2lb/1kg) = 7.15404 lb; so either way we see 7.15 lb extract for 5.5 gallons of 1060 wort. Now we need a percentage contribution from each grain. Simple recipe for preprohibition pilsner: 80% 6 row, 20% corn. We also need specs for each of these. Using Briess: 6 row; 78% Fine Grind, Dry Basis, 1.8% Fine Grind/Coarse Grind Difference, (unfortunately, Briess will not give the Coarse grind, so we must extrapolate from FG and FG:CG Diff) ((78-(78*0.018)) = 76.6 Flaked Corn as is 88 This means with 100% Brewing Materials Efficiency (BME), we can expect 76.6% of 6 row and 88% of flaked corn by weight to convert into wort solids. I have zeroed in on 83% BME for my system. We will use this figure for this example. >From above: 7.15 lb extract 6 row: 80% of bill; cg .766; BME .83 (7.15)(.80) = 5.72; 5.72/(.766)(.83) = 8.997 lbs corn: 20% of bill; .88; .83 (7.15)(.20) = 1.43; 1.43/(.88)(.83) = 1.958 lbs This looks to me like 9 lbs 6 row and 2 lbs flaked corn. Now if you tried this by using a lbs as percent (instead of extract,) how would that work? The above recipe (80% 6 R and 20 % corn), using say, Papazians values of: malted barley 25 to 30 pts/lb/gal; grain adjuncts 20 to 35 pts/lb/gal; where do we start? Ok, so we decide to take the median: malted barley 27.5 grain adjunct 27.5 (60 points)(5.5 gallons) = 330 pts. 330 / 27.5 = 12 lbs 6 R ; (.80)(12) = 9.6 lb Corn; (.20)(12) = 2.4 lb If we used these amounts, (9.6 lbs)(.766)(.83) = 6.10 lbs extract (2.4 lbs)(.88)(.83) = 1.75 lbs extract 7.85 lbs extract total / 5.5 gallons = 1.43 lbs per gallon Noonan's chart says 1.065 requires 1.41 lbs per gallon, so we are probably looking at 1.0655, which is quite different from the 1.060 that was targeted. Also, the balance of 6 R to Corn is off. Other examples may be more or less askew. I feel this is the more accurate way of writing recipes, although it is slightly more involved. For me, working these formulae is part of the intellectual process. By the way, my Trippel (brew date 7-6-98) had an OG of 1095, and is fermenting nicely. It has a quite fruity, and almost winey aroma. (Wyeast 1214). I used 85% DW-Cosyns Pils, 10% Briess Flaked Corn, and 5% Light Candi Sugar. (22.75 liters.) The kettle got 28 g Kent Golding 5.1% for 80 minutes, 14 g Saaz 3.2% for 20 minutes, 7 g StrisselSpalt 4.5% at knock out, and 14 g Bitter Orange Peel for 10 minutes. It was chilled to 58F, and the slurry from a one gal starter was added. The fermentation temp was allowed to rise to it's current 68F, which took about three days, by which time the krausen was about 6 inches high. This will be a MCAB qualifier at the Dixie Cup. Wish me luck. Or don't. Cheers. Peter Gilbreth barleywine at prodigy.net www.barleywine.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 17:58:26 -0400 From: "Frederick L. Pauly" <flp2m at avery.med.virginia.edu> Subject: pitching yeast when ? I read this digest almost everyday, when did the technique for pitching yeast change? I thought everyone who made a starter waited for the starter to finish and then poured off the fermentation beer and then pitch the yeast. When did everyone start pitching three day old ferments? Rick Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:23:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Edwards <ale at cisco.com> Subject: Maple Ale datapoint For those of you considering Maple as an ingredient, here's a pale maple ale recipe I made. I wanted to be able to taste the maple, as opposed to just adding an interesting twist. I haven't road tested it much (keeping it to myself ;-), but I would fully expect most people not to be able to tell what the special ingredient was. When maple is suggested, I would expect people to go "Oh yeah, maple!". The beer came out VERY good (IMHO) and I will definitely brew this one again. I would not change the amount of maple syrup I add, I'm very happy with it. 9# American 2-row 2# crystal 10 Lovibond 8oz malted wheat 4oz flaked barley 1.42 Liters grade B (med-amber) maple syrup (SG 1.347) .4 oz Chinook 60 min boil .3 oz Chinook 30 min boil .5 oz Cascades 15 min boil 6.7 gallons, final volume 1.058 OG; 1.011 FG (6.2% alc) Notes: Standard practice for me has been to add wheat for trub percipitation and flaked barley for head retention. Recently, I've switched to making flaked barley 10% of the grain bill and not adding the wheat anymore. Alpha acid ratings of hops unknown (they were homegrown). Not a lot of finishing hops to contend with maple aroma. 1.42 Liters maple syrup was arrived at by calculating the extract (after the mash) and adding enough syrup to make it's contribution exactly 33% of the total specific gravity points. First the beer was fermented without the syrup, at a 4 gallon volume for 8 days. The syrup (Trader Joe's grade B from Quebec) was added to boiling water to pasturize and allowed to cool on it's own, covered. Then the syrup was added along with enough sterile water to arrive at the target gravity (which came out to 6.7 gallons). The ale is on the sweet side of balanced and has a pronounced maple flavor. The maple flavor is very yummy, and not cloying at all (for my tastes). If you are not into beers on the sweet side, adding a little more bittering hops probably would be result in a more enjoyable product for you. -Alan in Fremont, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:43:12 -0700 (PDT) From: ale at cisco.com Subject: How do I use my counter-pressure filler? Help, I now have bottles of flat beer! Well, they are "half flat" (as opposed to half-carbonated ;-). There appears to be a balancing-act at work here: 1) If you use a higher pressure (like 14 pounds) to fill the bottles, then there is less foam during the filling, but it is very tedious to depressurize the bottle for capping, without triggering a massive degassing (gushing). 2) But, if you use a lower pressure (like 9 pounds), then bringing the beer to atmospheric pressures for capping is no longer a problem. However you have beer degassing itself in the keg, and on it's way to the bottle during the transfer! It's a no-win! The result is flat beer either way. What am I doing wrong? I tried to slightly overcarbonate the beer in the keg for a few days before bottling so that small CO2 losses wouldn't be a problem. Should I have overcarbonated it a lot? If I do that, won't it make the degassing problems worse as explained above? Should I instead bottle at an even higher pressure, and spend 10 minutes on each bottle, very carefully depressurizing it for capping. (As if bottling isn't a pain-in-the-a** enough already!) What pressure should I use? Much higher than 14#, and it becomes harder to hold the filler in the bottle during filling. Or, should I just let the thing gush all over the place and cap as quickly as possible? I don't get it. What am I doing wrong? What pressure works best for you? How overcarbonated do you make the beer before bottling? Any tips you can convey would be much appreciated. Thanks for your help! -Alan in Fremont Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:45:52 -0700 From: Shane Cook <scook at civil.ubc.ca> Subject: Maudite & La Fin du monde Hello All I recently had the oportunity to sample a great variety of craft brews at the Vancouver Brewmasters Festival. Two brews that really caught my tounge were Maudite and La Fin du monde. Both are brewed by Unibroue in Quebec. To get to the point I would love to try to replicate these two brews. Maudite is a 8% alc. amber ale and La fin du monde is a 9% alc. blonde trappist ale. I have never tried to brew anything like either of these and would welcome any suggestions. My only request is that you keep the help relatively simple, I have only done a few all grain batches and have never tried any complex mash scheduals, but I will give anything a try if neccessary. Also as suggested recently I was going to contact the brewery for suggestions but I thought I would a few questions here first, so that I could ask better informed questions of the brewer. 1) According to the Unibroue web page their beers are refermented in the bottle, what does that mean? 2) I have never tried a Trappist style ale before, and althought it is probably in the archives of HBD, what is the generally accepted style description and what are other commercially available samples to check out before I try to brew one? 3) Anyone else tried these beers and what did you think? Thanks in advance, Shane Cook - -- _______________________ UBC, Civil Engineering 2324 Main Mall Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4 Ph: 822-9842 Fax: 822-6901 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 21:03:00 -0400 From: Mark Tumarkin <mark_t at ix.netcom.com> Subject: HBD brew club The HBD is a great resource for beer and brewing knowledge, but because it exists in digital form we rarely get the chance to actually meet each other. This is a great thing when it happens, though. A couple of weeks ago Phil Wilcox posted that he was taking a trip down the east coast on his way to Tampa, and asked for suggestions as to brew pubs to visit along the way. I wrote back to him, and he and his wife ended up stopping here in Gainesville. We got a chance to swap homebrews and spend a couple of hours talking beer at the Market Street Pub. Phil makes some great labels, and some tasty Eisbock, uh.. no.... I mean I put his beer in the ice box.... yeah that's it. It was interesting to talk about some of the members of his brew club that you all know at least by name - Spencer Thomas, Jeff Renner, Dan McConnell, and also about other mutual friends from the HBD, most of which neither one of us have ever met. But it still feels like we know each other. The HBD is really a great group, sort of a cyber homebrew club. It's just too bad we don't get to meet each other and share our beer and bs more often. well, I guess we share the bs pretty often. The beer gives us a good common ground and place to start in getting to know each other. It's pretty amazing what nice people make homebrew. I had the opportunity to meet some of you last year at the GABF in Denver. It was really one of the highlights of a great trip. I'm planning on going again, maybe we can all meet at the Falling Rock again this year. I'd also encourage any of you planning on making trips to post about it as Phil did, it's a great way to meet each other, put faces with the names we come to know from this digest, not to mention a chance to maybe try some really great beers. Mark Tumarkin Gainesville, Fl Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 19:27:41 -0700 From: David Monday <dmonday at thegrid.net> Subject: Soda Kegs: Summary Feedback from my original post indicates that a good price for soda kegs *used* is ~ $10-13. The best price I found was $4.50 per keg........but I would have to buy all 2,300 in the warehouse to get such a deal (as is condition). Thanks for the feedback! Dave in N. Cal. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 23:57:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com> Subject: Re: When is a pint a pint? I wrote: > > One thing I really hope will catch on here in the States, is every > > glass over there has a line to mark the volume you are buying, ... Doug Moyers responds: > Regardless of what they call the serving size, you will still pay that > premium. and Jeremy Bergsman adds: >He commented that the "pints" they were being served at the time were >really a couple ounces short. A few months later I noticed that their >menu no longer says "pint" but "large." I guess I wasn't clear about my peeve. Whether a bar calls a serving "a pint" or "a large" or "a beer" isn't really important. That the consumer knows how much volume they are buying for their money is important. If one pubs wants to charge me $3.50 for 13 oz. and another will charge me $4.00 for 17 oz., fine; just let me know how much I'm getting so I can at least make an informed choice. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I was struck in Europe by the fact that every volume is noted, whether they are selling orange juice or single malt Scotch. Here in the States, the exact opposite is practiced; (many) sellers try to confuse and take advantage of the consumer by hiding how much is being sold/bought. And the American consumer has gotten used to this practice. I find it fairly ironic that in the birthplace of consumers rights, the sellers are calling the shots in this case. If you bought a bottle of beer, and it didn't say 12 fl. oz. on the label, wouldn't you think that odd? Wouldn't you be suspicious? SM Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 07:54:16 EDT From: TPuskar at aol.com Subject: Lemon zest I know I read the description of lemon zest somewhere but can't seem to find it. Could someone please clarify, is the zest the thin yellow part of the peel or the white pulpy stuff under (and not including) the yellow part of the peel. I want to dump some into the secondary of my Sam Adam's Summer Ale clone and was planning to use the pulpy stuff. A brewing friend said I was wasting the zest which is really the yellow part. There's a couple of six packs riding on this so I really need some clarification. Thanks to all. Tom Puskar Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 07:58:45 -0400 From: fridge at Imbecile.kzoo.edu Subject: Thermal mass Greetings folks, In HBD #2770, Jay Spies asked whether it is better to keep a fridge empty or full. I've wanted to comment on this subject in the past, but I realize that my posts deal with a peripheral topic to this forum, and I try to minimize the bandwidth I use. In response to Jay's question, the answer depends upon what is in the fridge. Most unpackaged fresh food items, and any liquid in an unsealed container, are dehydrated when placed in contact with the dry air present in most fridges at normal temperatures. This pesents a heat load that must be overcome by the refrigeration system. Jay's father's claim that a nearly empty fridge works better and more efficiently is true for fresh food until you decide not to fill one fridge, and partially fill multiple fridges instead. This situation changes for sealed containers. A fridge stuffed full of carboys and cornies has a large thermal mass. This acts like a "flywheel" to help even out any temperature fluctuations in the cabinet. The large mass takes time to cool, but once down to temperature, costs no more to run than an empty fridge. It will take longer to cool the large load to a lowered setpoint, such as for lagering, but the thermal mass returns some refrigerating effect when you raise the setpoint back up to serving temperature. Since many of us use external temperature controllers, and run our fridges at higher than normal temperatures, much of the dehydration I mentioned above doesn't occur. This is why moisture buildup is a common problem in these fridges. It is a good idea, in any case, to keep your fridge's cabinet dry and any containers sealed. I have mentioned this before, but I use Damp-Rid to keep my chest freezer dry and didn't have any moisture probems even when fermenting 10 gallons of pilsener with airlocks venting inside. Hope this helps! Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo fridge at Imbecile.kzoo.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:55:01 -0400 From: "Paul E. Lyon" <lyon at osb1.wff.nasa.gov> Subject: Wyeast 3068 I've noticed the posts about shelf life of Weizens brewed with 3068, and I appreciate the warning. I just brewed a Weizen (og 1.046) and pitched into my 6.5 gal glass primary. My starter was at high kaurazen when I pitched, so my lag time was only a couple of hours. The day after pitching, the yeast head in the primary had reached the top of the fermenter, and pushed its way through the airlock. I have since attached a blow off hose, but man, I have never seen such active fermentation. Is this strain known for explosive starts? Thanks, P.E.L. Return to table of contents
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