HOMEBREW Digest #2782 Thu 30 July 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  pitching temps (Samuel Mize)
  Pear cider ("David Johnson")
  Re: IM/scaling/high FG ("Jim Busch")
  RE: How do I remove TSP stains from my carboy? ("Kensler, Paul")
  Styles - Munich Helles vs. Helles Bock? ("Kensler, Paul")
  IM / glass carboys (Matthew Arnold)
  Tranfering Corny to Corny (Badger Roullett)
  "Benchmark" IPA's (Dan Cole)
  N. California Coast ("Adams, Steven")
  AHA 1998 NHC Final Results ("Brian Rezac")
  Pilsen Malt ("Kuhl, Brian S")
  Phil's Phalse Bottom (ale)
  Dry yeast amounts (Samuel Mize)
  Reply - Pitching Temps (Marc Chumney)
  Re: Pyrex carboys (Dave Humes)
  Brewery Finance 101 (Kyle Druey)
  pyrex carboys...plastic carboys ("phil grossblatt")
  Triple (Kyle Druey)
  hoppy beers (Spencer W Thomas)
  Force Carbonating ("Marc Battreall")
  Perry ("David R. Burley")
  Fundamentals of Stainless Steel Passivation (MAB)
  fusel and ester flavors -Tom Barnet (Laurel Maney)
  high temp ferment w/3068 / decoctions / IBU perceptions (George_De_Piro)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:35:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Samuel Mize <smize at mail.imagin.net> Subject: pitching temps > From: hollen at woodsprite.com > Subject: Pitching Temps??? > > Today ... my CF chiller only managed to cool the wort to 82F. > Well, I pitched anyway. As normal, within an hour, I had activity in > my blowoff hose. So, the higher than normal pitching temperature > appears to have been OK for the yeast. Sure, the yeast love it. They'll work fast and create many unusual and exciting flavors for you, esters and higher alcohols, which is why we usually try to pitch cooler. The issue is not killing yeast -- that starts around 110-120F, I think -- it's flavors. OTOH, some people pitch a little warmer because they want a fruity, flowery ale. 82F is a little higher than I've seen recommended, even for that, I think you're likely to get some harsh higher alcohols. This batch may require a little more age than usual to mellow out. - - - - - - - - - - > From: "Winkler, Jeff" <jeffw at finall.com> > Subject: How do I remove TSP stains from my carboy? Try rubbing it with a Sam Adams label... Best, Sam Mize - -- Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada Fight Spam: see http://www.cauce.org/ \\\ Smert Spamonam Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:44:45 -0500 From: "David Johnson" <dmjalj at inwave.com> Subject: Pear cider Charley, Paul Correnty's "The Art of Cidermaking" has the following recipe: 5 gal of sweet apple cider and pear juice (50/50 blend) 5 cups cane or corn sugar acid blend and tannin powder lager or wine yeast He goes on to suggest that 1 tsp of tannin would be about right. My comments must be taken with the grain of salt that I haven't made this recipe. Standard cider rules still apply. You want to keep your OG above 1.060 if you plan much storage. Boiling sets pectin. Use pectinase if you want a clear beverage. I use it even if I don't boil. I am beginning to come to the realization that sulfiting might be a better way to go (if your drinkers are not sensitive). If you sulfite, don't use a beer yeast they appear to be intolerant of sulfites. Lalvin has some good wine yeasts (D-47 seems to be popular with the meadmakers, and champagne is used in a lot of commercial ciders). On the Lalvin website ( http://www.lallemand.com/brew ), they have a winemaking consultant(Clayton Cone) who answers questions (promptly) and is willing to talk about Mead and cider (although these are not his areas of expertise a lot applies). I didn't get the idea that you wanted to make perry but info on that is available on "The real Cider and Perry page". Making real perry sounds interesting and there is a good article there on making it. If you are interested on growing perry trees, I have info on an US source. Other cider info is at "Cyder Space". There are probably links at the Brewery. There is also the cider digest where someone might also have some suggestions for you. It is run by the eminent Dick Dunn. As Below: Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider at talisman.com. Use cider-request@ talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests. When subscribing, please include your name and a good address in the message body unless you're sure your mailer generates them. Archives of the Digest are available for anonymous FTP at ftp.stanford.edu in pub/clubs/homebrew/cider. Hope this helps! Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:54:24 +0000 From: "Jim Busch" <jim at victorybeer.com> Subject: Re: IM/scaling/high FG Regarding IM and its utility in large/small scale brewing and filtering: In general at home I dont use IM, but I have been meaning to try some BreakBrite soon. For larger brewers who filter, IM can be important to use, especially in bigger OG beers, for the very reason Jim mentions, it reduces the particulate load on the filter and you get more life out of your sheets and/or DE. By combining cold conditioning to reduce the yeast load cell counts (and of course help to precipitate proteins, yet another good reason to use a horizontal conditioning tank as opposed to a tall Uni) and IM in the kettle you will extend the filter life with most beers. Joe responds to the scaling up issue (and I didnt mean to imply that Joe's beer had stability problems, in fact Ive heard all kinds of good words about the beers of Olde Newbury) and mentions how some notable brewers have made a go at it. New Belgium in Ft Collins is one that comes to mind as perhaps the most successful small operation to exist since the founding of Sierra Nevada. I visited Jeff at NB in '91 when he was still using his tiny 4 BBl home/basement system. (in fact in this very basement I got the connection for the fabber in Oregon who made my kettle and mash tun). This was a very creative system, fabbed locally in Denver. His fermenters were square sided SS with "cones" made from triangle cuts! Not a typical cone at all. It worked and made good beer and I saw on Usenet that someone is still brewing in this in Co! All of that said, Jeff was successful because he used this as a springboard and has installed 2-3 breweries since then. His latest is, I believe, a Steinecker from Germany, one of the most sophisticated sudhaus' produced. He has also hired all kinds of talent to keep up with the production. A real business success story, but one that has consumed Jeff with constant re-engineering of his facility for the better part of the decade. That said, I believe a large part of his success is due to a single brand that has enormous appeal, Fat Tire Ale. Once again, make a brand that has a following and then build the brewery to fit. Hard part is to survive as you grow. I responded to Charlie offline regarding his high FG Ofest, but to summarize: be sure to rest in the 144-146 range and then do a forced ferment to be sure of the true max FG. Prost! Jim Busch Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:07:25 -0600 From: "Kensler, Paul" <paul.kensler at wilcom.com> Subject: RE: How do I remove TSP stains from my carboy? Jeff, Are you sure the film was caused by the TSP? I have had this problem when soaking equipment in bleach-water solutions. The nearest I was able to figure out, is that it is some sort of fine chloride / carbonate precipitate. At any rate, if what you have is the same, all you need to do is soak it in an acidic solution (I used distilled white vinegar) for a few minutes, and follow up with a bottle brush. The acid dissolves it completely. For what its worth, I have never had a problem with TSP leaving a deposit or film. Paul Kensler Plano, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:24:01 -0600 From: "Kensler, Paul" <paul.kensler at wilcom.com> Subject: Styles - Munich Helles vs. Helles Bock? HBD, I recently brewed my first lager with my brew pal, Eric Schoville. Having much less experience with lagers than ales, I have a style-related question. What is the difference between a Munich Helles and a Helles Bock, OTHER THAN the differences in OG and IBU? Specifically, are there any flavor differences independent of the difference in gravity? We attempted to brew a Munich Helles last weekend, but overshot the OG (hitting 1.066 instead of 1.046). I decided to keep the brew as is (Eric diluted down to the target gravity), and went back to the reference books to find out what defined a Helles Bock. According to what I read in Daniels' Designing Great Beers and Noonan's New Brewing Lager Beer, the recipes for both beers are very similar (pils, carapils, munich malts, noble hops, neutral or Bavarian lager yeast). So what makes a Helles Bock unique, instead of just being a high-gravity Munich Helles? Our recipe was (18 gallons) 24# pils 4.5# carapils 3.75# munich Single decoction mash. Approx. 30 IBUs using Hallertauer Wyeast 2206 Thanks, Paul Kensler Decocting in 103 degree weather. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:03:36 GMT From: marnold at ez-net.com (Matthew Arnold) Subject: IM / glass carboys Scott Murman made some interesting observations: >I had a similar response as Steve when reading Jim's comments. While >it may be true that IM is a band-aid, it's a band-aid that many >homebrewers need. If we were using commercial systems with tall grain >beds, and computer-controlled perfect sparges, and making the same >batch time and again, then I'm sure many common HB practices would be >different. But we're homebrewers, and we use pizza pans with holes >punched in them, and check our sparges during commercials, and are >half-crocked by the end of a brew day. We need our band-aids to make >up for poor brewhouse techniques, because our brewhouse is usually the >back half of a garage or a moldy basement. Personally, I've made beer >with and without IM, and sometimes I think it's made a difference >removing some stuff that might later be soluble in my beer, so I try >to use it when I can. Because I don't have a perfect sparge. At the risk of sounding like a "me too"er, I've got to agree with Scott. I love all-grain brewing. Love it, I tell you! But I just can't convince myself to jump through the hoops to get the picture-perfect, spot-on-pH mash and sparge (if that were even possible). The choice (for me) is: do I a) want to spend all my time hovering over my Gott, or b) relax, etc., and add a tsp of IM to the boil. I choose b). Others might disagree with me, but that's where I've chosen to draw the line for my setup. >The question I think is more relevant is "Can Irish Moss cause any >damage to beer?", not "Is it beneficial?" Can it cause damage? I know it could in massive amounts, but the old 1 tsp/five gallons? Is my beer ruined? Do I need to brew in plaid? Would I need Scottish Moss then? Peat Moss? Kate Moss? (Sorry, the caffeine is getting to me.) >I would love to primarily (pun intended) >use plastic or stainless, but I then I couldn't see what's going on. I've been using a plastic bucket as a primary for the past several batches since my six gallon carboy had an unfortunate (and fatal) confrontation with gravity and a cement floor. I like the bucket all right, but I miss seeing the action. I miss seeing the little bubbles of CO2 rise to the top, the craggy head, the grand symphony that is fermentation. Gotta get me a new glass carboy. Matt - ----- Webmaster, Green Bay Rackers Homebrewers' Club http://www.rackers.org info at rackers.org Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:20:17 -0700 From: Badger Roullett <branderr at microsoft.com> Subject: Tranfering Corny to Corny Greeting Beer Fanatics... I recently entered the world of kegging and love it. it takes a while to get the feel for the equipment, but once you do it is Cool. The other day i tried to transfer from keg to keg to put the 2 half empty kegs of the same type of beer together for easy transport. I had teh local homebrew shop (evergreen in seattle, brett is the man!! of course no affliation, yadda) put together a out-to-out hose for me. I took it home, and hooked it up. In applying pressure i had mixed results, and had problems getting it to flow. fiddling with it i finally got it, but it me a while to figure it out.. can any help me with experience in the matter? pressure settings. which kegs to vent pressure on, etc. etc. thanks in advance. ********************************************* Brander Roullett aka Badger Brewing Page: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/badgbeer.html Badgers Brewing Bookstore: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger/brewbook.html In the SCA: Lord Frederic Badger of Amberhaven, Innkeeper of the Cat and Cup Inn Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:56:27 -0400 From: Dan Cole <dcole at roanoke.infi.net> Subject: "Benchmark" IPA's I have been charged to bring to our next brewclub meeting commercial IPA's for examples of the style (prior to our brewing and bringing our own). Those of you who are more trained (any BJCP'ers out there?), what 3 or 4 commercial brands are prime examples of the style. I also smuggled from England a couple of IPA's; I don't expect them to be what we think of as IPA's over here in the states, but they are there for contrast and discussion. If you don't want to tie up the list with this discussion, just e-mail me directly and I will summarize for the list. Also, special thanks to everyone who recommended beer places to visit during my trip to England last week. Unfortunately, I had very little time to seek out specific places, but no one mentioned to me how easy it is to find good pubs in England. Spending time in 3 cities/towns (Lancaster, Edinburgh and London) we were never more than 50 feet from a pub with at least a dozen fresh beers on handpumps. Thanks again, Dan Cole Roanoke, VA dcole at roanoke.infi.net P.S. Has anyone seen my discussion with the editor in BYO magazine regarding the validity of HSA? Am I wrong, or is he giving bad advice re: splashing of hot wort? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:01:54 -0400 From: "Adams, Steven" <paa3765 at exmail.dscp.dla.mil> Subject: N. California Coast Friends: I'll be driving down the California coast from Oregon to San Francisco soon. (Leaving Friday, Jul. 31) Please send recommendations for beer stops or other interesting sites. Nothing on the WWW seems to suffice. Oregon has its own brewery and brew pub map. Thanks, SA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:19:45 -0600 From: "Brian Rezac" <brian at aob.org> Subject: AHA 1998 NHC Final Results Here is the list of winners of the AHA 1998 National Homebrew Competition. AHA Category 1: Barley Wine Gold Medal - Dave Cowie - Nevada City, NV Silver Medal - Ron Raike - Orlando, Fl Bronze Medal - Ross Kahn - Boulder, CO AHA Category 2: Belgian and French -Style Ale: Gold Medal - Mark Tomusaik - Boulder, CO Silver Medal - Ted Manahan - Albany, OR Bronze Medal - Edward Bloom - Gibsonia, PA AHA Category 3: Belgian-Style Lambic: Gold Medal - Brian Bliss - Fremont, CA Silver Medal - Tony De Marse - Greeley, CO Bronze Medal - Charlie Gottenkieny - Dallas, TX AHA Category 4: Mild and Brown Ale: Gold Medal - Joseph Hughes - Jupiter, FL Silver Medal - Jack Sykes - Overland Park, KS Bronze Medal - Dave Shaffer - Lafayette, CO AHA Category 5: English-Style Pale Ale: Gold Medal - Thomas J. O'Connor III M.D. - Rockport, ME Silver Medal - Dave Shaffer - Lafayette, CO Bronze Medal - David Welch - Long Beach, CA AHA Category 6: American Style Ale Gold Medal - Ken Brown - Fremont, CA Silver Medal - Dan Morley - Calgary, AB - Canada Bronze Medal - Chris Lavoie - Glenmont, NY AHA Category 7: English-Style Bitter: Gold Medal - Bill Clark & Steven Olson - Duluth, MN Silver Medal - Paul Fiorino - Falls Church, VA Bronze Medal - John B. Avard, D.C., Chris Columbus, Mathew W. Goody & Paul D. Hallock - Manchester, NH AHA Category 8: Scottish-Style Ale: Gold Medal - Charles Cope - Alto, MI Silver Medal - Mike Kilian - Fenton, MO Bronze Medal - Harrison Gibbs - Los Angeles, CA AHA Category 9: Porter: Gold Medal - Kent Brehm & Bruce Hammell - Hamilton, NJ Silver Medal - Terry Durant & Gary Durant - Westminster, CO Bronze Medal - Jeffrey Swearengin - Tulsa OK AHA Category 10: English and Scottish Style: Gold Medal - Lester Lewis - Salem, OR Silver Medal - Bradley A. Maxfield - New Berlin, WI Bronze Medal - Dirk Bridgedale - Concord, CA AHA Category 11: Stout: Gold Medal - Mike Frost & Mike Kowal - Addison, IL Silver Medal - Mark Deorio - Bridgeport, PA Bronze Medal - Joe Formanek - Lisle, IL AHA Category 12: German-Style Bock: Gold Medal - Art Beall - Hudson, OH Silver Medal - Pat Bannon - Jefferson, PA Bronze Medal - George Dietrich - Shelby Twp., MI AHA Category 13: German-Style Dark Lager: Gold Medal - Jack Willis - Windham, OH Silver Medal - Art Beall - Hudson, OH Bronze Medal - Ed Miles - Olathe, KS AHA Category 14: German-Style Light Lager: Gold Medal - Dave Shaffer - Lafayette, CO Silver Medal - Richard Dwenger - Wentzville, MO Bronze Medal - Randy Norman - Madera, CA AHA Category 15: Classic Pilsener: Gold Medal - Russ Bee - Rockwall, TX Silver Medal - George Fix - Arlington, TX Bronze Medal - Michael Weaver - Cincinnati, OH AHA Category 16: American-Style Lager: Gold Medal - John Tantillo & Susan Tantillo - Wilmington, NC Silver Medal - Thomas Plunkard - Warren, MI Bronze Medal - Bill Pierce - Des Moines, IA AHA Category 17: Vienna/Marzen/Octoberfest: Gold Medal - Brian Beckmann - Andover, NJ Silver Medal - Thomas J. O'Connor III M.D. - Rockport, ME Bronze Medal - Cory Buennning - Jackson, Wy AHA Category 18: German-Style Ale: Gold Medal - Jeremy Price - Covington, KY Silver Medal - Mike Riddle - San Rafael, CA Bronze Medal - Dean Fikar - Ft Worth, TX AHA Category 19: German-Style Wheat Beer: Gold Medal - Tom Bell - Parker, CO Silver Medal - Art Beall - Hudson, OH Bronze Medal - Scott Boeke - North Augusta, SC AHA Category 20: Smoked Beer: Gold Medal - Bob Johnson - Tewksbury, MA Silver Medal - Peter Johnson - Santa Barbera, CA Bronze Medal - Randy Drwinga - Chandler, AZ AHA Category 21: Fruit and Vegetable Beer: Gold Medal - Garrett Luedloff & Tim Moran - Fort Smith, AR Silver Medal - Dan Kasen - Chicago, IL Bronze Medal - Dennis Waltman & Paul Waltman - Atlanta, GA AHA Category 22: Herb and Spice Beer: Gold Medal - Dennis Waltman & Paul Waltman - Atlanta, GA Silver Medal - Kenneth (Rob) Clucas, Randy Meharg & Madeline Burns - Overland Park, KS Bronze Medal - Deb Nelson & Frank Nelson - Apple Balley, MN AHA Category 23: Specialty and Experimental: Gold Medal - Ichiri Fujiura - Tokyo, Japan Silver Medal - Tom Morrow - Hamilton Branch, CA Bronze Medal - Tom Stelman - Utica, MI AHA Category 24: California Common Beer: Gold Medal - Bob Thompson - Murrieta, CA Silver Medal - Tom Ierardi - Skanneateles, NY Bronze Medal - Brian Cole - Black Mountain, NC AHA Category 25: Traditional Mead and Braggot: Gold Medal - Susan Ruud - Harwood, ND Silver Medal - Robert Ring - Caldwell, ID Bronze Medal - Ken Schramm & Dan Mcconnell - Troy, MI AHA Category 26: Fruit and Vegetable Mead: Gold Medal - Ron Badley - Reno, NV Silver Medal - Thomas J. O'Connor III M.D. - Rockport, ME Bronze Medal - Robert Wikstrom - Derby, KS AHA Category 27: Herb and Spice Mead: Gold Medal - Kathleen Lotz - Quincy, IL Silver Medal - John Slusher - Glen Burnie, MD Bronze Medal - Gunther Jensen - Kagel Canon, CA AHA Category 28: Cider: Gold Medal & 1998 Cider Maker of the Year - Gloria Franconi - Red Hook, NY Silver Medal - Frank Salt - Staten Island, NY Bronze Medal - Fred Sterner - E. Freetown, MA 1998 Mead Maker of the Year Ron Badley - Reno, NV (2nd year in a row) 1998 Homebrew Club of the Year Capitol Brewers - Salem, OR 1998 Homebrewer of the Year Ichiri Fujiura - Tokyo, Japan Congratulations to all! Brian Rezac Administrator American Homebrewers Association 736 Pearl Street, Boulder, CO 80302 303 447-0816, ext. 121 brian at aob.org http://beertown.org Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:10:00 -0700 From: "Kuhl, Brian S" <brian.s.kuhl at intel.com> Subject: Pilsen Malt Hello Brewers, I will be making a wheat beer soon and want to try something new. I want to use pilsen malt instead of my usual Maris Otter. Are there any pitfalls of differences that I should be aware of between these two malts? Can pilsen malt be run as a single infusion mash without issues? Here is my planned malt bill... 3 lb. pilsen 2 lb. Munich 7 lb. wheat malt TIA, Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:29:17 -0700 (PDT) From: ale at cisco.com Subject: Phil's Phalse Bottom Scott Murman wrote: | The issue of how to keep the phloating bottom in place is making the | rounds again. . . . The best way to make use of a phloating bottom, IMO, | is to put it in the garbage. If you're really worried about the $$, ask | for a refund; I've heard Listerman Inc. stands by their products. Jumping | through hoops to make something that was poorly designed in the first | place workable, is like trying to run a $3k computer with Windows. Uhh, | whoops. Nevermind. It's easy to say that the false bottom is "poorly designed", but that is simply not true. That size you bought is just not big enough to fit in the Gott 10 gallon cooler correctly. The design is proven. I had one (same exact design, only smaller) that fit perfectly snugly in my 5 gallon Gott and worked like a champ! I was extremely happy with it. But I moved on to a 10 gallon cooler and found that the largest false bottom that was available at my local HB shop wasn't big enough. Fine, all I really need to do is keep it from floating, and I'm sure I'll be happy for years to come. I'm not going to throw it away, or equate the thing to Windows (isn't that the worst form of slander? ;-). Is there one available that fits correctly in a 10 Gallon Gott? If so, point me at it; I'll buy it. If not, I'll weight mine down, thank you. -Alan Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:43:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Samuel Mize <smize at mail.imagin.net> Subject: Dry yeast amounts Scott Murman says it's best to pitch two packets of dry yeast, or make a starter. He's probably right -- I generally use Edme (gasp) which comes in a larger packet. The original poster was building a small starter, but not letting it work for more than a couple of hours. To get any colony growth it should go overnight, at least. Also, he should use malt extract instead of sugar. Jorge, for some notes on building a starter, see the rec.crafts.brewing FAQ, questions 24 and 30. Also, "How to Brew Your First Beer" by John Palmer. Both are in the library section of the Brewery web site: http://www.brewery.org These assume you are starting with a small liquid culture. For dry yeast, rehydrate and then pitch into the starter; also, use at least a half-liter starter from the beginning. Best, Sam Mize - -- Samuel Mize -- smize at imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada Fight Spam: see http://www.cauce.org/ \\\ Smert Spamonam Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:02:31 -0400 From: Marc Chumney <Marc.Chumney at rich.frb.org> Subject: Reply - Pitching Temps Dion Hollenbeck asked about abnormally high pitching temperatures. Being a brewer in here in central Virginia for the past two years, I have had troubles keeping temperatures under control. I try and pitch between 70 and 75, however after pitching I have noticed the temperatures rise into the mid to upper 70 and once as high as 82 for several days (A/C broke). The results have been very bad. I have experienced some very strong, bad aftertastes which I attribute to the high temps. I have been able to keep the temps between 65 and 72 in the fall, winter, and early spring and have made some wonderful beers. I have had success in lowering the fermenting temperatures by putting the carboy in a pan full of cold water and draping a towel over it so the towel soaks up the water. The problem I had with this is that condensation formed on the bottom of the pan, and really messed up the hardwood floor (but I did get some good beer!). Anyway, just my experience. Marc Chumney Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:05:30 -0500 From: Dave Humes <humesdg1 at earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Pyrex carboys Another point to consider with running boiling wort into the carboy is shrikage of the wort on cooling and the associated "suck-back" through the air lock. You can be fairly certain that whatever's in your air lock will wind up in the beer with that much cooling in the carboy. You could leave out the air lock for the first several hours, but that rather defeats the sanitation advantage of running boiling wort into the carboy. I suppose you could attach a filter to the carboy so that contaminated air can't reach the wort, but now it's getting too complicated. Dave Humes >>humesdg1 at earthlink.net<< Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:43:29 -0700 From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net> Subject: Brewery Finance 101 >...about a year+ ago. At that time it was possible to contract >brew beer for less than it cost A-B to produce !! This was before >BostonBeer(Sam Adams) bought several good sized facilities so that >equation may no longer hold... I am sure this equation still holds. The small contract brewer doesn't have AB's overhead sucking precious $ away from operating earnings. AB has to pay all those accountants, financial analysts, HR folks, researchers, etc. etc., just to produce one drop of beer. >but still the point is that production capacity isn't the limiting >factor in making a success in the beer market today. Instead >production capacity is going begging because few brewers can figure >out how to design and market products for distribution very far >beyond their local micro facility. And this is the critical point. If you develop the distribution channels you can then "expand it and they will come". Most micros seem to do just the opposite, build the capacity and then try to find a home for it. >the available evidence. "the bigboys do it" really isn't an argument >grounded in fact. They undoubtedly do "it" for a good reason, but >without the reasoning and background behind it you cannot apply their >results in another environment like HB. Rest assured that the megas do it because of $$$. Kyle Bakersfield, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:46:44 -0600 From: "phil grossblatt" <philgro at swcp.com> Subject: pyrex carboys...plastic carboys Yes,the Pyrex ones are pretty expensive- a 5 gallon one is around 130$ (of course,these scientific supply places sell a regular glass carboy for about 40$...),but anyway... browsing through some catalogs I noticed many shapes and sizes of autoclavable plastic ones for 40-50$,some with spigots at the bottom.I'm assuming if they are autoclavable,you could put boiling wort in them,and also possibly sanitize them with boiling water.Thought someone might find that usefull... Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:51:41 -0700 From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net> Subject: Triple >Attention everyone: "Tripel" has only one P. Look at a Westmalle >label. Only New Belgium's "Trippel" has two Ps and that may have >been intentional. It seems like a half dozen posters have written >it with two Ps in the last month. Attention AlK: Grimbergen spells "Tripel" as T-R-I-P-L-E! Kyle Bakersfield, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 02:16:45 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: hoppy beers Coupla digests ago, someone asked about hoppy beers along I-80 to Michigan. Of course if you're really coming into MI, it'll be I-94 at that point. Anyway, along the I-94 corridor, or not TOO far off, I recommend, from personal experience: New Holland Brewing - Mad Hatter - A very nice IPA dry-hopped with Centennial hops. Holland, MI, 'natch. Kalamazoo Brewing ("Bells") - Two Hearted Ale, if they've got it on tap (it's a Winter seasonal, so they may not). This beer rocks! In Kalamzazoo, of course. Michigan Brewing Co. - IPA - Well, it's actually on I-96 at the Webberville exit. This was easily the hoppiest beer I tasted at the Michigan Brewers' Guild SummerFest last Saturday. It was like hop juice. Brewbakers - Pacific Pale Ale - An American pale ale, dry hopped to within an inch of its life with Cascades. If you're lucky they'll have it on a hand pump at the brewery. In Ann Arbor. =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) P.S. If you're coming all the way to Ann Arbor, let us know and we'll arrange a little pub crawl. We've only got 2 brewpubs and a micro, so I can't promise more than about 18 beers to taste. Plus homebrew, of course. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:16:28 -0400 From: "Marc Battreall" <batman at terranova.net> Subject: Force Carbonating Hello All, Just wanted to give a bit of testimony on a procedure that I recently used to force carbonate a Corny keg full of an India Pale Ale I brewed. In the past, I had carbonated kegs by either priming it with a 1/2 cup of corn sugar and letting it sit idle for a week or so at 70-75F, or force carbonating it by shaking it vigorously while applying a predetermined amount of CO2 pressure based on a chart that I have listing CO2 volumes desired for a given temperature. Well, I came across a new method (new to me anyway) at Robert Arguello's web page and decided to give it a try. It looked simple enough and if it didn't work I figured the worse case would be that I would have to do it my way again. The results were great and worked just as Robert advertised! The only drawback is that if you want clear beer, you might need to wait an extra day or two for the beer to settle out. I did the procedure two days ago and the beer is now pretty clear and will more than likely get clearer. But the carbonation level is superb with a dense rocky, creamy head that I have never been able to achieve before using my old methods. He recommends doing the procedure for 4-4.5 minutes which would probably work fine for most ales. I did it for 5.5 minutes (exactly) and have a nice stream of rising bubbles that surround the glass. Get your copy of this procedure at Robert's web page at: http://www.calweb.com/~robertac/carb.htm (Standard statements apply: Not affiliated, YMMV, All the above is IMHO) PS. Thanks Robert!! Have a nice day! Marc ======================= Captain Marc Battreall Backcountry Brewhouse Islamorada, Florida batman at terranova.net captainbrew at hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:49:57 -0400 From: "David R. Burley" <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Perry Brewsters: Been trying got catch up on HBD but what with two major parties the last two weekends, kids home, etc. I don't have much time to comment. Dick Dunn's excellent dissertation on Perry omitted what I consider to be critical with pear fermentation and that is to treat every 5 gallons of juice with 1/8 tsp of potassium metabisulfite immediately after pressing. Failure to do so or if at any time the juice is transferred will result in what the Brits call "Pear Drops". We call it finger nail polish remover aroma. When I lived in Britain in the late 60s there was a product on the market ( maybe still is) called "Baby Chams" which was fizzy perry and very tasty. I did taste it out of curiosity, even though a real man wouldn't want to be seen drinking this in public, since the bottle was tiny and had the picture of this cute little lamb on the label to appeal to the ladies. 8^) Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Kinnelon, NJ 07405 103164.3202 at compuserve.com Dave_Burley at compuserve.com Voice e-mail OK Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:41:29 -0400 From: MAB <mabrooks at erols.com> Subject: Fundamentals of Stainless Steel Passivation Having been responsible for one of the numerous stainless/chlorine threads that have been beaten to death by now, I would like to change the subject slightly and discuss ways to protect and repassify stainless steel, assuming someone does use chlorine to sanitize Stainless Steel. Even if you use Iodophor you should still repassify, I will give an example of why later. I will occasionally quote from an article on "Passivation in High Purity Water Systems" written by Patrick H. Banes in the "Journal of Ultrapure Water, 1998". Passivation of a Stainless Steel surface is esential to maximize corrosion resistance of that metal. 1) what exactly is a passive surface, 2) how is it achieved, and 3) how is it maintained? 1) Formation of a uniform oxidzed surface that resists corrosion is the goal of passivation. When discussing austenitic stainless steels, the term "passivation" is used to indicate "a chemically inactive surface condition that is obtained by oxidation of the metal surface". 2) The passivation of stainless steel is performed chemically or electro-chemically at the factory and it is esential to maximize the corrosion resistance that certain metals offer. 3) "Passive surfaces can be maintained naturally when exposed to an oxidizing environment. Natural sources of oxygen include air, aerated water, and other oxidizing atmospheres. Beside naturally occuring passivation, chemical (nitric acid) and electro-chemical processes can be used to re-establish an anodic oxide film". The gist my thread on stainless corrosion is to not allow the corrosion to occur in the first place. Corrosion is not an overnignt process (with some extreme exceptions), where you wake up one day and find holes in your keg. This brekdown of the "suface film" had been occuring for quite awhile (un-noticed) and finally got to the point of failure. So how do you protect your Stainless? Even if you dont use chlorine you should have a routine for repassivating your kegs. We rinse ours after use (lightly scrub if necessary) and store them dry without the lids on for a couple of weeks, until needed again (natural repassivation with no real work involved), we have "extra" kegs to allow use to store some empty for awhile. If I dont use chlorine why should I repassivate?... I have witnessed a 10 gal. stainless corny keg used as a portable eye wash station (stored with "just plain water" in it for over a year) begin to rust on the inside, mostly around the welds, no chlorine contact at all, yet it still began to rust due to the fact that the water in it was slightly corrosive (Deionized Water). Out of the kindness of my heart I offered to dispose of the keg (cant use a rusted keg for an eye wash now can you). I took the rusty keg home, sanded and repassivated it with nitric acid and am glad to say it is working perfectly as a 10 gal. secondary fermenter. If your keg is to the point of internal rust you will have to sand and use chemical repassivation, it may be cheaper and easier to just replace the keg. If you are worried about corrosion, dont use corrosive liquids to sanitize with! Try Iodophor - we use it exclusively on Stainless, but we also repassivate naturally, just in case. Matt Brooks Northern VA. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:34:52 -0700 From: Laurel Maney <maney at execpc.com> Subject: fusel and ester flavors -Tom Barnet Two big flavor components in beer, when they're in the right proportions for the style you want. Esters are formed from alcohols and acids, primarily in the fermentation process. Some of the most prominent cause solvent aroma (ethyl acetate - smell some nail polish and look at the all the ingredients that say "xxxx acetate") and fruity aroma (isoamyl acetate - banana or banana-flavored candy, and ethyl hexanoate - apple, maybe tinged with anise). Usually when people just say "estery", they mean fruity-estery, not solvent. A German weiss beer yeast should be pumping put the banana side of the fruity group. The citrus flavor notes in weiss beers are also part of the fruity-estery group. Fusel alcohols are the 'higher' alcohols (i.e., longer than ethyl alcohol) also largely formed during fermentation. Examples are butanol and 3-methyl butanol, but I don't know of any good, everyday references you can use. People often compare it to cheap wine (maybe that's my problem, I like cheap wine!), but other sources say they're much like ethanol, "warm and pleasantly alcoholic" (M. Meilgaard of the beer flavor wheel fame). The smoky aroma you notice may be the extreme end of some phenolic compounds that you actually want in your weiss beer (clove aroma from eugenol and 4-vinyl guiacol). It sounds like you have the right flavor elements, but in the wrong balance. So assuming no other process problems, adjustmenting the fermentation temp may help. Steve Potter from Madison loaned me a really good book on flavor evaluation that includes a lot of information on processing fixes, and you ;might find it helpful. It's called Evaluating Beer, from the Association of Brewers in Boulder, copyright 1993. I guess I'll have to buy myself a copy, before I wear his out..... Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:06:38 -0700 From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com Subject: high temp ferment w/3068 / decoctions / IBU perceptions Hi all, Tom B. asks why his wheat beer lacks the expected clove and banana flavors that Eric Warner (and Wyeast) promised. He followed Warner's recipe and fermented with Wyeast 3068 (Weihenstephan) at 75-80F (23.8-26.7C). It is always very difficult to evaluate problems such as this without actually tasting the beer, but I'll babble about what I think may be the trouble. Tom does mention that the beer is smoky. Smoke is the result of phenolic compounds, as is the clove character you would expect in a Weizen. So Tom's beer is phenolic, but not in the desired manner. It could be a function of the fermentation temperature, or it could be a wild yeast problem. Tom also notes that the beer has a bitter aftertaste. Many people don't realize that the phenolic compounds in Weizenbier do taste astringent, which is very similar to bitterness. That is one reason that Weizens have such low hop rates: the astringency of the phenols balances the sweetness of the malt. If the phenols get too high, they can have a negative impact on the beer's flavor, especially in the finish. 75-80F is a very high temperature for fermenting with 3068. I would expect massive amounts of yeast growth (especially if the wort was underpitched). This would lead to high fusel alcohols which smell somewhat solventy and alcoholic. They also taste "hot," giving the impression of a beer that contains more alcohol than it does. They also seem to be good headache inducers. At that high a fermentation temperature I would expect a lot of esters, too. Perhaps so much that they would come across as being more solvent-like than fruity. Is this the case in your beer, Tom? While I may not have helped Tom all that much, I can say from experience that 3068 makes a good wheat beer at temperatures between 62-68F (16.6-20C). The banana is sometimes too prominent for my tastes, but at the lower end of that temperature range I have achieved very balanced results. ------------------------------------ Laurel writes in to answer a question about decoctions, and the purposes of the various rests. She did a nice job explaining the process. The original poster (whose name was not given) had asked why the rest temperatures are so high (156-158F, 68.8-70C). I think he (or she) may have been specifically referring to the decoction mash saccharification rest. If this is the case, the reason you rest the decoction at a relatively high sacc. temperature (70C) is to speed the process up. Not many brewers want to spend 3 hours in the mash tun. At 70C you get pretty fast alpha and beta amylase activity, although the beta amylase will only survive about 10 min. at this temperature. That's OK, though, because you will have achieved adequate saccharification by then. I don't worry about achieving iodine normality in the decoction mash. As long as there are enough sugars and amino acids around to fuel the Maillard reaction and create melanoidins during the decoction boil, I'm happy. Laurel points out that boiling will denature the amylase enzymes, but there should be more than enough left in the main mash to finish saccharification when the decoction is returned to it (assuming a mostly malt grain bill). Laurel goes on to ask about the results of decocting: "I can see how this [Browning reactions] contributes to a nice amber or dark beer, but I don't get any of that flavor in weiss beers. Is that because there's so much else going on flavor-wise, because of the yeast?" It could be that the strong yeast character may make it tougher to appreciate the subtleties of decoction-mashed malt character, but in a fresh wheat beer it is there. If you are tasting old, commercial wheat beer, then oxidation could be the reason you don't get much malt character. Melanoidins (the compounds largely responsible for maltiness) are oxidized pretty readily. That is why dark, high-melanoidin beers can have better flavor stability then lighter beers. The melanoidins oxidize, thus protecting other compounds from oxidation (for a little while). This still affects the beer, though. Rather than tasting papery, like severely damaged beers, they may just taste "empty." ---------------------------------- Mike has been reading about ultra-high IBU beers and wondering if people can actually taste the difference between 70 IBUs and 100. According to my Siebel notes, the cut-off is down around 45-50 IBUs. Above that tastes no more bitter. There are other things happening in ultra-high IBU beers that effect flavor, though. To achieve ridiculously high IBU numbers requires relatively large quantities of hops. Unless bittering solely with hop extract, that means there will be a lot of tannins in the beer (because of all the extra leaf material). This will make the beer astringent. All those hops will also lead to high hop flavor, which increases the perception of bitterness (as opposed to when you are given beer spiked only with iso-alpha acids and asked to rate the differences in bitterness). The high-alpha hops that are likely to be used may impart some rough flavors, too. While not technically "bitter," it will definitely impact the character of the bitterness. Hop bitterness declines as beer ages. By hopping the hell out of it you can be sure that the hops will still be there for ages to come. Even if the IBUs drop from the original 100 down to 60, the customer will still be tasting a damn bitter beer (so bitter, in fact, that they won't taste much else. That could be the real reason IPA's were so well-hopped. It didn't prevent beer spoilage, but covered it up). Have fun! George De Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
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