HOMEBREW Digest #2844 Thu 08 October 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  RE: Back From Lost Wages ("John Lifer, jr")
  Poland Spring Jugs ("Stuart Baunoch")
  Heat exchanger ("Phil Barker")
  Roasted Barley ("Dr. Pivo")
  GREAT LISTSERVE (Brandon Brown)
  re Protein rests - ("Steve Alexander")
  Munich/Maillard/Protein rests ("Steve Alexander")
  The end of the HBD as we know it. ("Steve Alexander")
  Historical Accuracy ("Crossno, Glyn")
  Virtual HomeBrew Clubs (ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO)
  re: adding make-up water ("Curt Speaker")
  Ames/Mid Iowa Visit ("Dave Russell")
  Durst friablilty/Sticke Glass/... ("Philip J Wilcox")
  Kolsch/Fermentap (B.R. Rolya)
  Whirlpooling ("George De Piro")
  Fest (Jack Phillips)
  fruit fly in the starter (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil>
  Steering Committee (Some Guy)
  Whirlpool Stuff (Jack Schmidling)
  re: Lead Poisoning ("Michel J. Brown")
  Re: Is my beer going to kill me? ("Michel J. Brown")
  Local Brewers ("Stuart Baunoch")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 06:18:29 -0500 From: "John Lifer, jr" <jliferjr at misnet.com> Subject: RE: Back From Lost Wages Pat, Do you do that too? I hate to be treated like **** when it is MY MONEY that I'm handing out. But, I had quite a different experience last week in New Jersey. In southern NJ, near Lakewood there is a Fine Italian Restaurant with a brewpub inside! Hot dog! Excellent beer, tried them all except the Wheat and XXX light. Stout, Porter, Pale and Red ales were all very good, no yeast twang as they do filter the stuff. Incidently, you won't find any Budswiller in this house! Nothing except what they make! Excellent idea and the first BP I've been in that is that proud of their beer. BTW, the Assistant brewer gave an excellent tour and was quite nice to answer all of our questions. Basil T's is the name of the place. Good enough for two consecutive nights. Good food too! John - -- Cornelius Ball Lock Kegs for Sale See Web page for details. http://www2.misnet.com/~jliferjr/Kegs/Default.htm Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 07:51:15 -0400 From: "Stuart Baunoch" <sbaunoch at homeruns.com> Subject: Poland Spring Jugs Would Poland Spring Water 6 Gallon Jugs be OK to use for fermentation vs. Glass Charboys....???? I can obtain a couple of these at no cost....... Only worries would be sanitation... Stuart Baunoch sbaunoch at homeruns.com Inventory Control Specialist Hannafords Homeruns Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 07:23:04 -0500 From: "Phil Barker" <pbarker at earthlink.net> Subject: Heat exchanger I've been reading a lot of articles on different methods for mash temp adjustment using pumps and heat exchangers. I made one myself a few months ago, and it works GREAT. I thought I would share what I have done. I use two polarware brewpots with thermometers and ballvalves with one King cooker burner, a recirculation pump and a ten foot immersion chiller (heater). The system is set up as follows: False bottom and enough water to cover in the mash tun Sparge water and heating coil in other pot on top of burner I prime the pump to circulate the water in the mash tun through the coil in the sparge water back to the mash tun, using a drilled copper coil to disperse the water. When the temp in the sparge water container is at mash in value , I use water from the sparge container (through the valve) to mash in the grains as they are added to the preheated/primed mash tun. At this point all I have to do is to watch the mash recurculate through the mash tun false bottom through the pump, through the sparge water pot with the heat exchanger back into the mash tun. (I keep the return water ring below the surface of the grains and liquid during this process, stirring occasionally) I keep the pump running constantly also. When I want to adjust the mash temp, I turn up the heat under the sparge pot until I reach my new mash temp. When mash is complete, I connect the pump to the outlet of the sparge pot and to my sparge are and begin sparging. What I have achieved here is that I use the same water that I had in the sparge pot for heating the mash to now sparge the mash. Its a large volume of water, but temp adjust is better buffered from fluctuation and I've heated only one volume of water, and it's ready when I am. As a mater of fact the temp increase to mash out brings the sparge water to correct temp. I know I probable made it sound more complicated than it is. It works well, and helps me make GREAT tasting, clear beer. Let me know if you have any questions. Phil Barker pbarker at say no to spam earthlink.net Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 14:48:12 +0100 From: "Dr. Pivo" <irv at wireworks.se> Subject: Roasted Barley I am looking for any information on the production of "roasted barley" (as in: stout component). Temps, times, techniques. I asked this on RCB and drew a blank. Links would be great. Personal experiences would be greater. Published here would be fine. Direct email would be finer. I've got the barn floor about 10 cm. deep in what looks like a barley runway, and I'm kind of anxious to start playing with it. Raking it barefoot is OK. Drinking fresh stout is OKer. Dr. Pivo Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 07:00:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Brandon Brown <brandonbrown at yahoo.com> Subject: GREAT LISTSERVE I really, really appreciated all of the comments on my first posting about GABF. Everyone here was very helpful and directed me to some local spots (local meaning Chicago) for Homebrew type festivals. Being a computer propeller-head, I've always done newsgroups and list serves on a technical nature for my job. This list is very enjoyable (and informative!). Keep up the good work and hopefully I'll be able to help someone out in the future and return the favor! Brew Great and Brew Strong young warriors, Brandon == Brandon Brown (773)251-5353 Director of Development Fax:(773)442-0131 Protech Solutions Inc. bbrown at protechinc.net _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 06:04:22 -0400 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: re Protein rests - Charles Rich writes re George DePiros comments ... >Here's a datapoint from a recent brew gone bad, that I think supports >Kunze. >I determined this after about 80 minutes at 138F; I'd intended 151F >but wasn't getting evidence of sugar conversion, no rainbows on the >bubbles, no transparency etc. Frankly if you're not getting a *LOT* of sugar developing 80' at 58.8C you've got a serious mashing problem. Try using your tongue next time - every serious brewer should keep one handy just for such a contingency. Rainbows on the bubbles - ahhh recreational drugs of the '70s - I'm not sure why you would associate this with sugar rather than oils or laminar b-glucans. [Please insert some virtual smileys in the above - I know Charles to be a bright and serious brewer] >That beer, a CAP, had nil hot break (and consequently showed >astringency), had little or negligible cold break, and was tenaciously >very hazy. The lack of break might mean a loss of coagulable protein and there are a lot of reasons for this. Small pH changes can make a big impact too for example. But astringency is due to oxidized polyphenols - ready to bind with the proper sort of proteins - like those on your tongue (damn useful tool that). The question is - why didn't your phenols bind to the proteins ? Once this happens, whether they drop out or not, the astringency is dramatically reduced. Add a little milk to your stale tea and see what I mean (that tongue thing again). >Polyclar helped pull some of haze and astringency, but it >was still unshowable IMO. The long rest at 138F is just at the end of >the temperature range where proteolytic enzymes would be expected to >degrade high molecular weight proteins. Funny enough, the beer has a >lot of body but a poor foam stand. Polyclar is sort of an artificial protein which will bind to the oxidized polyphenols and not really to proteins or existing haze. It reduces existing haze more by accident than anything else. It is most useful for removing tannoid haze *precursors* - not protein or existing haze. [This argues against using PVPP in very cold beer to reduce chill haze - but that's another story.] I guess I find this case to be very very unclear evidence of anything. Kunze cites 45C-50C for primary protein degradation, you're at 58.8C - almost 16F higher. You have evidence of little protein loss through break matter so the proteins are small or for other reasons not coagulating - yet your wort is oddly astringent which means oxidized polyphenols without proteins to bind to. It could be that you for some reason you extracted a huge amount of phenolics or did a good job of oxidizing them which overwhelmed the available protein (and I mean oligopeptides really) binding sites. The combination remains as haze too small to coagulate in the boil or sediment later and also free polyphenolics and unbindable proteins. Why the excess phenolics ? Personally I start a lot of mashes at 58C and push them up to ~62C before boosting to 70C. I don't see this problem, but again I may only spend 20' not 80' at 58C. - -- Also ... >My Polder digital Thermometer/Timer's probe went t*ts-up during >the brew and read 13F below actual. My first Polder died on it's first outing, the replacement lasted about a week. Cheap junk IMO. Too bad - since conceptually it's such a nice design. Steve Alexander Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 05:33:19 -0400 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Munich/Maillard/Protein rests Steve Jackson writes ... >Because of the action of amino acids in forming melanoidins, I >understand that starting with high-protein barley for making Munich >malt is generally beneficial. I don't fully understand how this >affects the "end result" in terms of the protein content of the malt >that is shipped to the consumer. The topic is something I certainly >wouldn't mind learning more about. Same here - I find the discussion on Kunze unsatisfying. Only a very small amount of amino acids are necessary to create all the Maillard products in Munich malt. I have doubts that boosting the protein level 10% would have a more dramatic effect than reducing the water content bit or boosting the temps a few degrees. Still ... >I'm assuming that enough of the protein is "consumed" during the >process of making Munich malt that the protein content is either >sufficiently reduced or converted to MMW and LMW proteins by the time >the malt is in the consumer's hands that a protein rest is generally >not necessary. *MAYBE* 1% of available protein goes into the maillard products - it's in the noise. Other factors dictate the necessity of a protein rest. Steve Alexander Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 10:27:33 -0400 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: The end of the HBD as we know it. Louis Bonham writes ... >Subject: Clinitest Truce Declared ... >I am please to announce that Dave Burley and Al Korzonas have agreed to a truce >in their often-animated HBD discussions on Clinitest. ... >My price of admission for doing this, however, is that both Dave and Al agree to >cease posting on this subject in the HBD until the experiment is completed and >the results are released. Further, each of them have given the HBD Janitor the >plenary authority to cancel posts from either of them that violate the cease >fire. > >The Steering Committee has been concerned that the level of acrimony >accompanying this debate had reached counterproductive levels, but as we have >stated repeatedly we do not want to censor any beer-related posts and will >resort to censorship as a very last resort. In this case, our arrangement will >hopefully resolve the issue productively while returning the HBD to a somewhat >more relaxed (and collegial) tone. > >Louis K. Bonham >kbonham at phoenix.net >Member, HBD Steering Committee No one is entirely happy with the form of the Clinitest discussion, but frankly intelligent opinionated guys like Al and David are the only ones who bother to push these issues to their conclusion. They are the only ones who care enough to try to find or refute new methods and question the current state of technology. It shouldn't be a surprise that hashing out such conflicts of fact may also result in some verbal conflict as well. It's part of the process and we all should count ourselves fortunate to have had a ringside seat. Well we did have. What has happened is that we have all now been excluded from observing and participating in this process. All the neo-mccarthyites that suggested this topic should be banned should feel real proud right now that their complaints have resulted in the first serious threat in my memory of *censorship* of a brewing topic on HBD. This is unacceptable to me. I'm very pleased that Al and David and Louis have decided to work toward an experimental approach to resolving the technical questions, but there are some things in the message above that I am not at all pleased about. A member of the Steering committee, Louis Bonham, announces a 'voluntary' censorship of a technical topic on this forum until he has a chance to produce an experimental result and publish an article under his own name in BT. Louis should of course not be allowed to participate in any censorship determination or any policy issue in which he has a stake. Conflict of interest - it is entirely unethical by any measure. Why else can't the details of the experimental design be posted here besides personal interest in conflict with that of the digest. Two reasons are cited for the committees threat of censorship. Acrimony: As for the level of acrimony - a number of years ago there was a really pesky disruptive poster named NOKOMAREE who posted nothing of constructive value and even made an open threat against one of the HBD contributors. I was told at that time in a private email from the janitor that as long as it wasn't commercial or a dup and was vaguely related to beer that it was getting posted. So I guess that threats of physical violence are acceptable, but intense and vehement discussions of technical brewing issues force the committee to threaten their "last resort" of censorship. It seems more like the first resort of those who would suppress open discussion. As for the "more collegial tone" language - different people have different styles, where does this style issue get expressed in the censorship rules for this forum ? Counterproductivity or nonconstructivity: If you wish to see some nonconstructive posts I suggest that you all go back to the archives and review Louis' highly politically charged rants against AHA. He could have courteously censored himself, but instead he chooses to threaten the censorship of technical brewing topics. There were issues of fact even in the most recent Clinitest posts. The data was getting pretty meager, but there are a lot of less informational threads going on here all the time. As for the steering committee - what are the steering committee's responsibilities to a formal charter and capabilities with respect to the sort of censorship indicated above ? The webpage only cites a few reasons for censorship - and spirited and lengthy discussion of a topic isn't among them. Has this policy been replaced ? Who speaks for the steering committee ? Apparently things have devolved to the point where admittedly longwinded and intense debate on the marginalia of brewing cannot be tolerated in this forum. Don't you all understand that even *offering* voluntary censorship in exchange for some other good is a form of censorship ? Louis as BT columnist has every right to make the offer, but as HBD steering committee member I think he is completely out of line. In what way is the suppression of the Clinitest discussion in the interest of the HBD while topics like 'beer in space' and 'botulism' have been allowed to run rampant ? What Al and David and Louis decide to do privately is their business, tho' I've asked to participate in the discussion. This "'big brother' is preventing you from having to page-down" aspect gives me a severe migraine in the posterior. Perhaps the header should just list the proscribed topics then at least I could make an informed decision about my future participation in this forum. >For all of you who have wanted to see a cease-fire in the never-ending HBD >Clinitest jihad, your wish is granted. And for all of you who enjoy the prospect of censorship - your wish was just granted too. Maybe we need a jihad against a different 'C*' word. May I suggest a clear policy statement by management hopefully with an unconditional retraction of the censorship language in the post above and a clear statement about conflict of interest of the committee members. I know Louis well enough to believe that his motives are honest, but the appearance is of a serious abuse of HBD for personal benefit. hope that was collegial enough to get past the censors, Steve Alexander Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:42:42 -0500 From: "Crossno, Glyn" <Glyn.Crossno at cubic.com> Subject: Historical Accuracy For the record: It was Clinitest infected with botulism which caused the aluminum to dissolve in the wine which caused the Romans to contract Alzheimer's and thus the fall. Thanks Louis, Al and Dave. Glyn Crossno - --------------- "Are you going to come quietly, or do I have to use earplugs?" Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 10:08:09 -0500 From: ThE GrEaT BrEwHoLiO <skotrat at wwa.com> Subject: Virtual HomeBrew Clubs Hi all, I normally don't outwardly try to promote my sites but this time I actually have something relevant to add to the subject. About three years ago I started a HomeBrew chat (The first one on the web I believe maybe not). Well I had this great idea that the chat would be 100% homebrew talk 100% of the time, the kind where a brewer in need could go when they needed help quickly (like when the mash tun was melting or something). What I got was a chat virtual HomeBrew online Pub. Kind of like the pub down the street from you or I. The kind of place where everybody knows each other and everybody looks out for each other. The one common factor of all the people visiting the chat is that they are all Home Brewers of every level and style. Last year sometime the regulars urged me to register the chat as a HomeBrew Club with my great friends at the AHA and I went ahead and called Brian Rezac who set me up. Well anyway The BrewRats were born sometime in November of 1997 I think. Meetings are held pretty much 24 hours a day 7 days a week. That is whenever you have time to visit the chat. The BrewRats homepage is here: http://skotrat.dynip.com/brewrats The Brew Rat Chat lives here: http://skotrat.dynip.com/brc.html Currently there are about 75-100 members in the BrewRats covering I believe 7-10 countries. We have brewers on the novice to the pro level and would like to start holding regular brewing competitions amongst ourselves and also make ourselves heard on the regular competition scene as a club. I would like to thank all the brewers I have met in the chat for making me a better brewer and for just being one hell of a great bunch of guys. Now for the disclaimer: If you are a pinheaded one-sided ego freak that can not deal with real people being them selves. Or you think that the chat should be about exactly what you want it to be about all the time. Or if you come in and act like everybody in it is not talking about beer Well then, the chat is not for you. If however, you want to meet a fantastic bunch of brewers, talk beer, brewing, yeast, brewing equipment, welding, politics, computers, sciences, chili peppers, food, sex, religion or just be the village idiot then you may like the chat. And remember: You wouldn't go into a pub you have never been in before and start calling the patrons morons and telling them that they aren't doing things right without getting your feather ruffled. If you come in with an open mind and join in the conversation you will love it. Hmmm, enough poop C'ya! Scott "You might remember me from such films as 'CLINITEST, What the hell is it good for?'" Abene ################################################################ # ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT # # Scott Abene <skotrat at mediaone.net> # # http://www.wwa.com/~skotrat (the Homebrew "Beer Slut" page) # # # # # # "The More I know About Cathy Ewing, The More The AHA SUCKS" # ################################################################ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:17:52 EST From: "Curt Speaker" <speaker at safety-1.safety.psu.edu> Subject: re: adding make-up water Just a quick data point: Someone recently mentioned that they thought they had infected their beer by adding some additional water to the primary fermenter after the wort was added. Another poster mentioned that adding water per se should not cause an infection. This is true...to a point. The only batch (out of >100 )that I ever had to dump due to infection was contaminated in just that way. The water is not the problem - the container that the water is placed in was the culprit. I have a small 1-gallon poly pail that I use to collect runnings from my mash/lauter tun when I am not using my boil kettle to collect runnings (for recirculation purposes and the last 1-3 quarts). I typically do not sanitize this pail since the wort will be boiled for 60-90 minutes. But after chilling my finished wort, adding it to the primary, I noticed that I only had ~4.5 gallons. So I used the same small pail to add an additional 0.5 gallons of water. The lactobacillus that lives on the surface of the grain was probably all over the inside of that container, and I inocculated my fresh wort with a good bit of it. Fermentation went on as usual, but the beer would not clear in the secondary. So, I decided to taste it - YUCK! The beer was dry-hopped (it was a SNPA clone), so there wasn't any tell-tale off aroma to let me know of the infection. Live and learn...and maybe be satisfied with a 4.5 gallon batch! :-) Cheers Curt (deep in the heart of central Pennsylvania) Curt Speaker Biosafety Officer Penn State University Environmental Health and Safety speaker at ehs.psu.edu http://www.ehs.psu.edu ^...^ (O_O) =(Y)= """ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:45:29 -0400 From: "Dave Russell" <drussel3 at ford.com> Subject: Ames/Mid Iowa Visit I will be visiting the Ames IA area on business in the near future. I seem to recall a fellow hbd'r with affiliations to a brewery/brewpub in the area. Any information on this location or other brewpub to visit while I am there. Private e-mail ok. Thanks. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:51:09 -0400 From: "Philip J Wilcox" <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com> Subject: Durst friablilty/Sticke Glass/... From: Philip J Wilcox at CMS on 10/07/98 11:51 AM All, Has anyone else noticed that Durst malts are more fiable lately? I recent brewed my O'fest with 10 lbs pils and 5 lb of both munich and dark munich. My JSP malt mill is not adjustable so that eliminates that variable. The result I got made me fear for stuck mashes. Lots of powder! After eliminating my first dough golf balls ever it did, however, glean me at least 4 extra points from my target and did not Stick as feared. Comments?? With all the wonderful chat about Alts lately I have decided to brew, and subsequently Label one. What I was wondering was what kind of glassware is used to serve these beers in? Especially Sticke, for this will be my Sticke Fingered Frog Alt! My artists minds eye has a frog sticking (with lots of glue) to a glass of beer. But What kind of Glass???? Also, should i use belgian pale over American pale ale malt? I can't find a german pale ale malt. I suppose pils malt wouldn't hurt. Ideas? comments? Thankyou Louis for playing the role of Butros Butros Ghali. phil wilcox poison frog home brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:53:03 -0400 (EDT) From: br at interport.net (B.R. Rolya) Subject: Kolsch/Fermentap Randy asked about the preferred fermentation temperature for Kolschbier. When I was in Koln in August, I was only able to tour one brewery (although I sampled Kolsch from many others). The brewer at Malzmuhle told us that they initially ferment at 18-22 C (64-71F) for 3 days, and then bring the temperature down to 4C (39F) for 3 to 4 weeks. I don't know about the other breweries, but at least this gives you a reference point. I completely agree with Herbert's assessment of the Fermentap. In summary: seemed like a nifty idea, quickly turned into a troublesome gadget, but we love the stand for drying carboys. -BR Rolya br at interport.net New York Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 11:59 -0800 From: "George De Piro" <George_De_Piro at berlex.com> Subject: Whirlpooling Hi all, Jay asks about whirlpool design, speculating that longer, faster stirring will help increase the efficiency of the process. This is a common misconception (even amongst some GABF medal winners I know; no, Mr. Gump knows better). Nothing settles in a whirlpool until AFTER you take the energy out of the system (stop stirring). As long as you are providing energy (stirring) the solids will remain suspended and near the perimeter of the vessel (the principle behind the centrifuges used for beer and wort clarification). Stirring the wort too fast or too long is not only a waste of time and energy, but it can hurt your wort. The hot break material is relatively fragile. Too much agitation can cause it to break up into smaller pieces that will not settle well in a reasonable amount of time. Pumps, 90 deg. elbows in pipes, and any other obstacles in the wort flow can also break up the trub. Settling out cold break in a whirlpool is ineffective because the particle size is so small. Cold break takes a long time to settle out. Breweries can use centrifuges, flotation tanks or filters to remove cold break, but most breweries don't bother (this statement is backed up by both Kunze and Paul Smith (Siebel)). Any cylindrical vessel can be used as a whirlpool. Converted Sankey kegs work well, but a lot of wort can get left in the kettle depending on where your outlet is. In a really high-tech whirlpool there may be a ring called an "annular grid" incorporated into the vessel. The purpose of this device is to prevent the formation of eddy currents that disrupt the trub pile formed by the primary current. Without one of these grids (like most of our systems) you should allow 30-45 minutes settling time (the exact time is dependent on depth; I use this time to hook up the chiller and dump the sanitizer out of my fermenters). An eddy-wrecking annular grid will save you a short amount of time (Kunze says ~30%, but that the wort should always settle at least 20 min.). Note that the settling time WILL effect your late hop additions. When I increased my brew length (and hence the depth of my kettle) I had to wait longer for the wort to settle. My mid-boil hop additions added substantial bitterness to the brew and my late hop additions added a lot of flavor (and less aroma than desired)! The rotational velocity of your wort should be slow, and the time of energy input (stirring) should be only long enough to get the entire wort into motion (no more than 30 seconds on my system). Anything more is potentially bad for your beer and a waste of time and effort. If you don't believe any of this try a simple experiment: but some sand in a clear, cylindrical vessel. Start stirring. Where is the sand? Stop stirring? Now what happens? Interestingly, Einstein (and doubtless millions of others) noticed this exact phenomenon while stirring his tea. Unlike the millions before him, Einstein wrote his observation down and explained it mathematically. It took brewers until 1960 to realize the value of this simple observation (H. Ranulph Hudston at Molson, Montreal is the one who *accidentally* discovered the usefulness of hot wort whirlpooling while conducting experiments about the *usefulness* of hot wort aeration!). Once it was noticed it quickly became the method of choice for wort clarification. Some Germans soon did experiments that demonstrated the best break separation is achieved with hop powder, the worst with hop extract, and a mediocre result was obtained using whole hops. On my system (and most others I would think) whole hops are not adequately separated by whirlpooling; some sink, some float, and others find points of neutral buoyancy at all depths in between! Have fun! George de Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 98 09:05:00 -0800 From: Jack Phillips <jphillip at FUTUREX.COM> Subject: Fest In HBD2843 Dan Sullivan responded In HBD #2842, Brandon Brown asked: > I was wondering if anyone has been to a homebrew festival, > what is the atmosphere like, etc? Uh, from what I can remember, Saturday was like a backyard bar-b-que with 300 of my closest friends. Blue sky, mid 80s. 26 clubs, about 700 gallons of homebrew, 3 bands, speakers were Fritz Maytag, Russ Wigglesworth, Martin Lodahl and Byron Burch. Closed to the general public, no commercial beers. Very civilized, but then beer has for centuries been the cornerstone of civilization. It was way civilized, yes. Cheers! Those of you that know may think Dan was just tooting his own horn, but I will attest that a great time was had by all that attended this splendid event in the Napa valley last weekend. Congratulations should go to Dan for managing this fine event. Dan spent many hours promoting, arranging, securing commitments, and generally doing whatever it took to make the first annual "Northern California Home Brewers Fest" a success. Again I say thanks to Dan and all those like him who spend a large percentage of their personal time promoting the idea that home brewing should be a pleasant and enjoyable experience. Jack Phillips Brewing on the Timberline and a few miles east of Charley B. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:41:53 -0400 From: "Bayer, Mark A (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil> Subject: fruit fly in the starter collective homebrew conscience: after researching several hbd back issues on yeast starters, i decided to change my method for the first batch this year. i wanted to get closer to the constantly aerated, constantly swirled environment. so no stir plate, but i ran a sterile-filtered air supply from an aquarium pump into the headspace of an erlenmyer-type flask and covered it with plastic wrap. no airlock. i figured since the plastic wrap was impeding any bacteria/wild yeast dropping down from above, the constantly exiting airflow around the edges of the plastic wrap would probably prevent any major infection from happening. after about 24 hours of constant air supply and numerous manual swirlings, a fruit fly found his way into the foam of my actively fermenting starter. contact time was probably less than an hour or so, he was right on the very top of the foam, and i scooped him out with a boiled stainless spoon. the airlock was quickly sanitized and installed. what say ye, infection masters? is my starter ruined? it still smells fine, but i can't help imagining my batch of english bitter going down in infectious disaster due to the fly. there is one more "step up" planned for this starter, and i'm debating how to avoid this debacle for the next aeration session. which brings me to the next question: what's the approved method for drilling a rubber stopper? do i use a drill bit and just make sure it's quite clean (do i need to sanitize it?). or is there a better method that won't tear up or permanently imbed unsavory things in the rubber? better yet, are there dual-drilled stoppers available from lab supply or homebrew shops? let me add this also: the new, bigger, more expensive "ready to pitch" wyeast pack doesn't seem to have created a noticeably bigger sediment in the starter flask than the old packs did. maybe i should give it another day or two to sediment more completely before i make that statement. i figured with the constant aeration, the bigger pack, and the repeated manual swirling, my starter would produce a bigger crop. should i be expecting a much larger amount of yeast with the new packs compared to the old ones? brew hard, mark bayer Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:29:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Some Guy <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: Steering Committee Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your barrister... Steve Alexander levels a broadside at the Steering Committee regarding the recent turn of events... First, Steve, NOKOMAREE occurred during the AHA's tenure with the HBD. It is doubtful the current HBD "administration" commented on it one way or t'other as we, frankly, didn't "exist" at the time. And yes, we, as a whole, understand your concerns. Frankly, though, had Karl and I not installed a "Steering Committee", the actions taken may have been a hell of a lot more precipitous than this. The point being that the SC is fulfilling the exact purpose intended: keeping balance. Preventing the decisions of one from simply being executed for all. The cross section which is the SC has discussed this - at length - and did not impose the conditions on Mssrs Burley and Korzonas, we negotiated with them to reduce the "noise" the discussion had descended to. No new information was being turned up - just a sticking point. The proposed action will (hopefully) resolve the issue once and for all to the satisfaction (hopefully) of all involved without watching these two respected contributors engage in a street brawl over it. I tis regrettable that Louis' brief note could not convey the "history" of the background discussions between Al, Dave, Louis, the SC and me. Most notably not apparent in Louis' note is that they had the right to decline as well, with no action taken against further posts. As for conflict of interest: yeah. It's potentially an issue. However, Louis could have simply done it all behind the lines, anyway. I prefer to have it in the open. I don't believe his intent on the Digest is to "Harvest" it for his BT column because, frankly, he agreed to be a HBD SC member long before he had that column. Secondly, if the results of his experimentation gain some notoriety for the HBD in BT, help the content of that venerable magazine, and, perhaps, repay Louis for some of the pro bono legal help he has given the Digest in recent years (by alleviating writer's block, perhaps...), well, you see where I'm going. It is also little different than the "harvesting" of Digest material that has gone on pretty much since the Digest's inception. Just a little less insidious - he's openly announced his intentions rather than some nugget popping up in a book, mag or letter to the editor. Finally, it is not Louis. It is the HBD SC and Mssrs. Korzonas and Burley who have agreed to this method. It was preferred by the combatants (apparently) to the original suggestion that they form an off-Digest group to experiment and report on the results - similar to the discussion group formed a couple of years back between you, Al, Dave, and other notables to discuss another controversial subject that now slips my mind - to preserve the Digest S/N ratio. Out and out censorship will not be instituted during my term of stewardship of the HBD, and I believe I can speak for Karl and the rest of the SC as well. Our "charter" is to see to its continued existence and relative quality. Censorship fits neither. However, we will attempt arbitration in debates where the "tone" of the debate begins to threaten either of the two (existence and relative quality). This is not censorship. It is an agreement (granted: the terms of the agreement will be enforced) between gentlefolk to put the discussion aside until some real data or new information can be reported rather than to poke needles into each other over some sticking point or other. "Does not!" "Does too!" "Does not!" "Does too!" "Does not!" "Does too!" hardly constitues meaningful discourse; don't you agree? Oh, and though I many times "speak for the steering committee", I am speaking for myself at the moment See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..." Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 09:50:06 -0700 From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net> Subject: Whirlpool Stuff "Spies, James" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us> "Assuming one has a fixed center siphon positioned about 1/8" - 1/4" from the bottom of the keg center, and assuming that one uses hop pellets, couldn't an extended whirlpool using a stirring device ala C.D. Pritchard's neato stirrer (http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/boiler.htm) be used to get a nice compact cone of trub-y crud which could then be sucked out through the siphon like a double-wide in a tornado? The concave bottom of the keg would even seem to enhance cone formation. I suspect it would work fine but why complicate something that is inherently so simple. I never did understand the point in whirlpooling much less what you are suggesting. If you simply let the wort settle for a nominal period of time after the boil, you have the same situation as a mash tun, viz., a ready made filter bed; this time made of spent hops instead of spent grain. If you draw the liquid from anywhere near the bottom, it will run crystal clear after the first cup or two. All you need to do is provide some means of preventing the end of the pickup tube from getting clogged, such as an copper scrubber, Sure Screen or Easymasher. BTW, restaraunt supply houses sell stainless scrubbers that should have put Chore Boy/Girl/Person out of business years ago but I guess it's some sort of conspiracy by the Copper Miners of America. js - -- Visit our WEB pages: http://user.mc.net/arf ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:21:46 -0700 From: "Michel J. Brown" <homemade at spiritone.com> Subject: re: Lead Poisoning >Wasn't Italian wine and lead goblets part of the downfall of Rome? No, actually Rome fell due to lack of resolve to commit themselves to anything but a despotic empirical leadership, which later disintegrated into a military dictatorship. That, and the combined size of the empire coupled with decreased resources made it inevitable. >Since the wine wasn't up to par with what the Romans were used to, >they would 'sweeten' it by drinking it from lead goblets. While lead goblets existed, the Romans used Cadmium for the most part, which resulted in the typical heavy metal toxicity noted. >This habit, added to their other 'quirks', shortened their reign and >lifespan. Well, revisionist history aside, the Romans fell due to a wide ranging series of problems (excess taxation, declining tax roles, decreased raw and natural resources, servile wars, vast size for military control, despotic military leadership, etc.) not the least of which was just plain out moded thinking. Out of the ashes of the old Roman empire rose the kingdoms of Europe, which capitalized on the Roman infrastructure, and political power (can you say Holy Roman Emperor?). >This is the kind of stuff that fills my brain, instead of really useful >info. Either way, it helps you to get a grip on where we came from, and why. Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C. {Portland, OR} 2222 miles due west of Jeff Renner homemade at spiritone.com http://www.spiritone.com/~homemade/index.html "In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind" L. Pasteur Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 09:38:05 -0700 From: "Michel J. Brown" <homemade at spiritone.com> Subject: Re: Is my beer going to kill me? >...the victim treated himself to his own form of chelation therapy by >self prescribing a six-pack of beer a night for a month (if I remember >the story correctly). Sorry, Steve, but after I picked myself up off the floor from ROTFLOL, I have to disagree with your version of "chelation therapy". REAL CT is done with small polypeptides that bind to heavy metals, like the way iron is bound in hemoglobin. >And lo and behold, the lead present in his bloodstream dropped out. Of course serum levels will drop after a short time -- then it goes into the bones, where it displaces calcium. Very noticeable on radiograms. >Can anyone here refute or confirm the possibility of such a therapy >working? While I can't refute such anecdotal casual references, it is extremely doubtful IMHO that such an event occurred as stated. While the serum level of Pb may have dropped to below threshold levels of mensuration, the only place that heavy metals can go is into your stools, if conjugated with bilirubin, or osseous deposition, which is the more common route of autodetox. Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C. {Portland, OR} 2222 miles due west of Jeff Renner homemade at spiritone.com http://www.spiritone.com/~homemade/index.html "In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind" L. Pasteur Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:58:51 -0400 From: "Stuart Baunoch" <sbaunoch at homeruns.com> Subject: Local Brewers I am loking for some local brewers to get together with in my area and chat and drink homebrews........ Living in Sturbridge, MA. Am looking to move to Wochester area........ My local supplier says there are quite a few of people around the area that brew, but no groups or clubs that I know of.......... Stuart Baunoch sbaunoch at homeruns.com Inventory Control Specialist Hannafords Homeruns Return to table of contents
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