---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  randy's pH paper questions (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil>
  Interpretation of analysis ("Michel J. Brown")
  Bad Gas (Blink)
  Bad gas acid test (ThomasM923)
  electric heating a Gott cooler ("S. Jackson")
  re: small scale malting (Ian Lyons)
  Determining Hop Utilization (Sean Murphy)
  First Wort Socking - FWS, and lentil beer(?!) ("Chris Pittock")
  Metallic Tastes (oberlbk)
  Accuracy (oberlbk)
  "Set" the filter bed... (pbabcock)
  Mini masher (Andrew Stavrolakis)
  All Grain Equipment ("Steve Milito, M.D.")
  SHMS vs. HERMS (Peter.Perez)
  Lauter Design (Mike Isaacs)
  Pumpkin as a primary fermenter (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  Re:  Using a commercial keg ("J. Matthew Saunders")
  AHA Seeks Invitations to Homebrewing Events (Paul Gatza)
  Aquarium Pump "Smell" Filter ("Brian LeCuyer")
  re:On combining decoction and household chores (Shane & Laura)
  Mashing vs. Extract: a big deal, or not? (Alan Edwards)
  King Kooker Cleaning? ("Marc Battreall")
  re First Wort Hopping (Jeremy Price)
  munich conversion/goods and process (Dave Sapsis)
  Vent. Hood (Posse4000S)
  Stuck fermtation? (dolmans)
  Flies in the wort/GFCI/Low partial mash OG (John Wilkinson)
  Seeking Books... (Badger Roullett)


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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:09:03 -0400
From: "Bayer, Mark A (Boeing)" <BayerMA at navair.navy.mil>
Subject: randy's pH paper questions

collective homebrew conscience:

randy in modesto had questions about the merck colorPHast strips:

<I recently bought some colorpHast strips (range 2 to 9) aftergiving up on
the cheap paper ones.  <The brief instructions on the package say "Dip in
- --- read whilestill moist." Then "Immerse in <weakly-buffered solutionsuntil
there is no further color change (1-10 minutes)." Thesetwo statements <seem
to contractdict each other --- do I just dipand read, or do I have to wait
several minutes?If <these strips work out okay, I plan to try acidifying the
mashwith lactic acid also. Is this the right <approach for this waterand
pale worts?

regarding acidifying mashes with lactic acid - be careful because you can
easily over-acidify a mash with small amounts of lactic acid.  trust me -
i've done it.  it's best to dilute a teaspoon or so down to about a pint of
brewing water and use that for additions so that you don't overshoot, and if
you do, it's not by much.

here is my experience with the colorpHast strips:  i have used the 3-color
strips sold by hoptech (mfg by baxter?) and also the colorpHast strips.
when i first started using the 3-color strips, i would dip them in a sample
and read within a minute or so.  that worked fine - the colors didn't seem
to change much after about a minute or two.  when i first started using the
colorpHast strips, it seemed that they were reading .3 to .5 units lower
than the 3-color strips.  but, if i left the colorpHast strips in the sample
for 5 minutes, the color would gradually change during that time, and the
final reading would agree with the 3-color strips.  this was true for both
sparge water and mash readings. 

so my advice would be this:  immerse the colorpHast strips for a mash sample
and read after one minute, five minutes, and ten minutes.  see if you get a
gradual creep in the indicator color like i've had, and you can then crudely
determine how long you must leave the strip immersed before it settles to a
steady state.  i believe that depending on the water/mash composition, the
time required will vary. (ajd can surely elaborate on this.)

so for me, pHast <> fast. ; )

one other thing:  the difference in the colorpHast color "key" for readings
at 5.3 and 5.5 is nearly indistinguishable (to me), especially indoors.  if
you have the same problem, take the wet sample outside and reading in
sunlight if possible.  the 3-color strips weren't quite so hard to
distinguish in the typical mash range, because you had 3 colors to compare
against the key.

also - don't forget that if you're reading mash ph at room temperature (60
deg f or so), the reading that you get is roughly .35 units higher than the
real ph of the mash at typical mashing temps (150 deg. f).  e.g., if you
read 5.5 at room temp, the ph of your mash is really 5.15.

the other piece of information that would help all of us using merck (or
other) strips would be if somebody has taken an accurate ph meter and
compared its readings to the strips.  that would be valuable.

brew hard,

mark bayer


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:15:05 -0700
From: "Michel J. Brown" <homemade at spiritone.com>
Subject: Interpretation of analysis

Below are the results of my local water. Looks pretty good to me, albeit 
I can't seem to determine if chloramines are used or not. Also, if the 
hardness is so low, then where is the slight alkalinity coming from?


Water Analysis Results, March 1998 

Physical Characteristics Variable Raw Water Result Treated Water Result 
Method Detection Limit Primary Standard Secondary Standard 
Turbidity (NTU) 0.20 0.25   5   
pH 7.1 7.3     6.5-8.5 
Color (standard units)  ND ND 5     15  
Specific Conductance  19  25  0.1        
Total Dissolved Solids  19  22  0.1     500  
Fixed Solids
( at  550 degrees C)  15 18  0.1       
Suspended Solids  0.5  1  0.5        
Total Solids
 at  180 degrees C)  20  23  0.1        


Nutrients Variable Raw Water Result  Treated Water Result  Method 
Detection Limit  Primary Standard  Secondary Standard  
Ammonia Nitrogen (NH3-N)  ND ND 0.020     
Nitrate Nitrogen
(NO3-N)  0.01  ND  0.01  10    
Nitrite Nitrogen
(NO 2-N)  0.001 0.001 0.001 1    
Nitrogen, 
Organic (N)  0.02 0.01 0.01     
Phosphorus,
Reactive
(PO4-P)  ND ND 0.003      
Phosporus, Total (P) ND 0.012 0.005     
Total Organic
Carbon (TOC) 1.15 1.30 0.05     
Silica
(SiO2 as SI)  4.1 3.9 1     


Anions/Cations Variable  Raw Water Result Treated Water Result Method 
Detection Limit Primary Standard Secondary Standard 
Alkalinity
(as CaCO3)  7.5 7.9 0.5     
Hydroxide
(as CaCO3)  ND ND 0.1     
Carbonate
(as CaCO3) ND ND 0.1     
Bicarbonate
(as CaCO3)  6.9 7.9 0.1     
Carbon Dioxide, Free (CO2)  1.1 0.8 0.1     
Carbon Dixoide, Total (CO2)  7.2 7.8 0.1     
Chloride (Cl) ND 1.0 0.3   250 
Fluoride (F) ND ND 0.05 4.0 2.0 
Sulfate (SO4) ND ND 0.5   250 
Calcium (Ca) 1.5 1.6 0.01     
Magnesium (Mg) 0.59 0.58 0.01     
Hardness
(as CaCO3)  6.3 6.3 0.1   250 
Potassium (K) 0.20 0.20 0.01     
Sodium (Na) 1.2 2.5 0.01     


Metals Variable Raw Water Result Treated Water Result Method Detection 
Limit Primary Standard Secondary Standard 
Antimony (Sb) ND ND 0.001     
Aluminum (Al) 0.074 0.055 0.001   0.05-0.2 
Arsenic (As) ND ND 0.001 0.05   
Barium (Ba) ND ND 0.001 2.0   
Cadmium (Cd) ND ND 0.001 0.005   
Chromium (Cr) ND ND 0.001 0.1   
Lead (Pb) 0.001 ND 0.001 0.015   
Mercury (Hg) ND ND 0.0010 0.002   
Nickel (Ni) ND ND 0.001     
Selenium (Se) ND ND 0.001 0.05   
Silver (Ag) ND ND 0.001   0.1 
Copper (Cu) 0.028 0.013 0.001 1.3 1.0 
Iron (Fe) 0.017 0.019 0.001   0.3 
Manganese (Mn) ND ND 0.001   0.05 
Zinc (Zn) 0.012 ND 0.01   5 


Disinfection By-Product
Variable Raw Water Result Treated Water Result Method Detection Limit 
Primary Standard Secondary Standard 
Total Trihalomethanes (annual average) Not applicable 0.020 0.005 0.100  
 


Synthetic Organic Chemicals 
2, 4-D*  Dalapon*  Hexachlorocyclopentadiene* 
2, 4, 5-TP (Silvex)*  Dibromochloropropane* (DBCP)  3-Hydroxycarbofuran 
Adipates*  Dicamba  Methomyl 
Alachlor (Lasso)*  Dieldrin  Metolachlor 
Aldicarb  Dinoseb*  Methoxychlor* 
Aldicarb Sulfone  Dioxin*  Metribuzin 
Aldicarb Sulfoxide  Diquat*  Pentachlorophenol* 
Aldrin  Edothall*  Phthalates* 
Atrazine*  Endrin*  Picloram* 
Benzo(A)Pyrene*  Ethylene Dibromide (EDB)*  Polychlorinated Biphenyls 
BHC-gamma (Lindane)*  Glyphosate*  (PCBs)* 
Butachlor  Heptachlor Epoxide*  Propachlor 
Carbaryl  Heptachlor*  Simazine* 
Carbofuran*  Hexachlorobenzene*  Toxaphene* 
Chlordane*  Vydate (Oxamyl)* 



Note: None of these chemicals can be detected in either Bull Run or 
blended groundwater. Chemicals marked with an asterisk are included on 
the EPA primary standards list.


Volatile Organic Chemicals 
Benzene*  1,4-Dichlorobenzene*  n-Propylbenzene 
Bromobenzene  Dichlorodifluoromethane  Styrene* 
Bromomethane  1,1-Dichloroethane  1,1,1,2-Tetrachloroethane 
n-Butylbenzene  1,2-Dichloroethane*  1,1,2,2-Tetrachloroethane 
sec-Butylbenzene  1,1-Dichloroethylene*  Tetrachloroethylene* 
tert-Butylbenzene  cis-1,2-Dichloroethylene*  Toluene* 
Carbon tetrachloride*  trans-1,2-dichloroethylene*  
1,2,3-Trichlorobenzene 
Chlorobenzene*  1,2-Dichloropropane*  1,2,4-Trichlorobenzene* 
Chloroethane  1,3-Dichloropropane  1,1,1-Trichloroethane* 
Chloromethane  2,2-Dichloropropane  1,1,2-Trichloroethane 
2-Chlorotoluene  1,1-Dichloropropene  Trichloroethylene 
4-Chlorotoluene  Ethylbenzene*  Trichlorofluoromethane 
1,2-Dibromo-3-chloropropane  Hexachlorobutadiene  1,2,3-Trichloropropane 

1,2-Dibromoethane  Isopropylbenzene  1,2,4-Trimethylbenzene 
Dibromomethane  p-Isopropyltoluene  1,3,5-Trimethylbenzene 
1,2-Dichlorobenzene*  Methylene chloride  Vinyl chloride* 
1,3-Dichlorobenzene  Naphthalene  Xylenes* 



Note: None of these chemicals can be detected in either Bull Run or 
blended groundwater. Chemicals marked with an asterisk are included on 
the EPA primary standards list.


Miscellaneous Raw Water Result Treated Water Result Method Detection 
Limit Primary Standard Secondary Standard 
Methylene Blue Active Substances (foaming agents) ND ND 0.025   0.5 
Tannin & Lignin-like compounds 0.025 0.15       





Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 23:01 +0100 (BST)
From: beermonster at brewer.org (Blink)
Subject: Bad Gas

> So, after all this, I still believe that I have an off-flavor in the
> carbonated beer that I haven't tasted in the secondary. I don't think 
> that
> my cleaning/sanitizing is at fault. Could it be the gas???


It could be the gas, but don't forget that there are regulators and pipes 
and disconnects which can become contaminated on the gas side, especially 
if you have had a 'blowback' of beer up the gas pipes.
If you're convinced it's the gas itself, why muck around - go and spend a 
few quid on a refill exchange or borrow a mate's.
Alternatively, have a bit of patience and naturally condition a cask of 
beer.

Cheers

Graham
Head Brewer and Kegwasher, Blinks Brewery, Derbyshire, England.


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:37:51 EDT
From: ThomasM923 at aol.com
Subject: Bad gas acid test

In order to find out if the gas is flavoring your beer, why don't you make
some "seltzer" with it? Put some cold water in your keg and charge it with
some of the suspected CO2, shake, etc. After a few hours draw off some and
taste it. If the gas is good, you can make egg creams.
- ---Thomas Murray


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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 21:17:35 -0400
From: "S. Jackson" <sjackson at easley.net>
Subject: electric heating a Gott cooler

Has anyone ever (successfully) installed an electric heating element in
a Gott cooler.  I usually heat my sparge water in my kettle and transfer
it it to my hot liquor tank.  No matter how hot I get the sparge water
initially it always seems to be too cool by the time I get to sparging.
I think a heater element in my HLT might be the answer.  Alternative
suggestions are welcome also.

Steve the Alabama Outlaw
"Brewing beer was far more exciting when it was both a hobby and a
felony!"



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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:50:06 +0930 (CST)
From: Ian Lyons <ilyons at science.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: re: small scale malting

Homebrewers
I put a question to the group regarding small scale malting of grains, 
in 
my case triticale, and got really good feed-back.
Thanks for the input.
The problem was with drying the grain at lower temperatures than my oven 
could provide.  

The two main solutions suggested were: 
Package the grain in pillowcase sized bags (REALLY sealed!), and dry 
them 
in the tumble dryer, or  

Sun dry them:  aparently there is a traditional wind malt that is 
dried 
that way.  

I'll give them both a try, and report back!

Ian
ilyons at biochem.adelaide.edu  add .au bcs that's where I am!


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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:24:31 -0700
From: Sean Murphy <smurphy at sdcoe.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Determining Hop Utilization

When calculating hop bitterness, I usually use the following formula,
Woz X U% X A% X 7849 / (V gal X C gravity) or Randy Mosher's Hop
Go-Round, but I have a few questions about correctly determining the
Utilization %.
	1.  When determining Utilization % do I use the pre boil gravity and
the time or the post boil gravity and the time?
	2.  Does using either value have a tremendous effect either way?

When inputing the value for volume in gallons, do I use the volume at
the beginning of the boil, the volume in primary, or the final volume

Sean Murphy



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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:16:29 +11:00
From: "Chris Pittock" <pittockc at vida.agvic.gov.au>
Subject: First Wort Socking - FWS, and lentil beer(?!)

Hi All,

I've been asked if it's possible (as opposed to desirable!) to make a 
lentil beer. Of course, I think it'd need gelatinising and a fair 
dose of high activity malt to convert the (presumably) useable 
starches. Also, given that lentils contain high (~24%) protein, it's 
need some attention to avoid protein haze. Wisdom anyone?

Also, Jim Bentson wrote in #2856:
>Gosh, to think I could have been doing my socks during my recent
>decoction brew. 

There's a great potential thread in First Wort Socking! Cotton v 
nylon v wool or blends... Socks worn in leather shoes, runners... 

Enough said!

Chris Pittock

Horsham, Victoria, Australia
14483 kilometres (9000 miles) W-SW from Dave Draper


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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 06:34:31 -0400
From: oberlbk at NU.COM
Subject: Metallic Tastes

I think this has been discussed before, but I do not think I have seen any
answers posted.

My wife bought me an entire corny keg system a while back - now she's a
keeper.  The tanks were used, but in very good shape.  Prior to this time I
was using bleach to sanitize, but concern for my newly acquired stainless
kegs caused me to look for something new.  I bought the Five Star kit - PBW
and Star San and have been using it ever since.  Since I was not allowed to
modify our refrigerator, I used a cooler for flash chilling the beer on the
way to the tap.  My first purchase was a cold plate.  My first 3 batches
tasted like metal coming out of the tap.  I convinced myself that it was
some sort of problem with the cold plate.  I sent it back, threw down some
more cash and got a stainless steel coil.  My next 3 batches have all still
tasted like metal.  Last night I went into the lab (a bench in my basement)
and pulled a sample off of an old ale which had been sitting in the keg
"aging" since June.  I pulled the sample using a picnic faucet.  Again, all
I could taste was metal.  I also found that the head was the worst
offender.  It was so metallic that I actually tried to pour it off.

Knowing all of this, I have convinced myself that it is the CO2.  I am very
confused by this.  I know a ton of other people who use CO2 tanks that do
not have a problem.  Due to a number of errors with my first CO2 tank, I am
now on my second tank.  Same taste.  The place I get the gas from has
numerous beverage accounts, so I don't suspect the gas.

I checked out the inside of my kegs.  I cannot find any signs of rust.

What do I do?  I have not tried priming naturally yet.  This sort of
defeats some of the purpose of my getting the keg system.  Also, what is
the difference in CO2 made from yeast and that in my tank?  I am not a
chemist, but I am pretty sure that CO2 is CO2 no matter what the source.

Please help.  As you know, by the time you are done with taps, coils,
tanks, hoses, and regulators, this endeavor was not cheap.  However, I am
soon going to be going back to bottles, ugh.  Right now I no longer
consider my beer worth drinking.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.  Private email is ok.

Brent Oberlin
oberlbk at nu.com




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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 06:36:53 -0400
From: oberlbk at NU.COM
Subject: Accuracy

One more question.  Has anybody ever bought a thermometer which was reading
the wrong temp.?  I have been extracting a ton of tannins from my grains
and I am trying to isolate the cause.  Since I only have one thermometer,
it could be way off and I would never even know it.  Is this possible?

Brent Oberlin,
East Hampton, CT
oberlbk at nu.com




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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 07:03:36 -0400 (EWT)
From: pbabcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com>
Subject: "Set" the filter bed...

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

Al writes:
>> First a tiny terminological issue: a "set mash" is a bad thing.  It is   
>> what many call a "stuck mash."  When you say "the filter bed is set"
>>that could be mistaken for "stuck," so I recommend saying "the filter
>> bed is *established*."

Well, now: let's not get carried away with that one! It's common
terminology to state that you are "setting the filter bed" or "setting up
the filter bed" oe even that the "filter bed is set" in the mash. It
refers to the stratification of the flour, grits and husks in the bed
rather than the permeability of it to the wort.  Papazian et al set that
precedent long before this post, it is prevalent in many of the
homebrewing texts on the market and I don't think many associate setting
the filter bed with a stuck mash... 

Just a miniscule terminological clarification ;-)



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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:41:14 -0400
From: Andrew Stavrolakis <andrew_stavrolakis at harvard.edu>
Subject: Mini masher

Pete Perez asks whether a small mash tun can hold its heat...

I've mashed between 2 and 4 pounds of grain successfully in a "6 pack" size
gott cooler on numerous occasions with no significant temperature
variations.  FWIW, I used a a small copper manifold and siphoned the sparge
from an attached hose barb...

Cheers!

Andrew

andrew_stavrolakis at harvard.edu



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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:08:55 -0400
From: "Steve Milito, M.D." <milito at radonc.musc.edu>
Subject: All Grain Equipment

I have returned to brewing after a long hiatus. My experience in the
past was with extracts, but I have
 decided do all grain this time. I have recently brewed a 5 gal batch
using a Gott cooler and plastic 
buckets. I really enjoy brewing (and consuming) homebrew, but the time
commitment with all grain is 
too great to justify 5 gal batches. Therefore, I would like be able to
brew at least 15 gal batches, 
possible 20 gal.  I have several questions.

What size liquer tun is appropriate? Will a converted keg do, or do I
need a larger volume?
What size boiling tun is needed? I was thinking 25 gal, is this
excessive?
I was thinking of using a converted keg for Mash/Lauter tun. What are
the advanatges / disadvantages 
of a manifold verses a  false bottom? Can you recirculate with a
manifold? 
Any advice as to a reasonably affordable method of ramping up would be
greatly appreciated.


Best Regards,
SM
 


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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:47:30 -0400
From: Peter.Perez at smed.com
Subject: SHMS vs. HERMS

I am planning to convert my 3 tier gravity system (using Gott) to either a
SHMS or HERMS.  My original plan was to make it a SHMS, but the necessity
for a mash mixer kinda turned me off to this one.  More recently I have
been considering go the HERMS route, but this appears to have its own set
of difficulties (don't overheat the wort, watch out for hsa, sanitize the
pump and immersion chiller).  Being able to just pump hot water thru the
immersion chiller seems to make this option better to me.  My question is
what are some good solutions for an automatic mash mixer?  Preferably
something that is reasonably easy to build/install?

Thanks,
Pete




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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 07:53:57 -0700
From: Mike Isaacs <misaacs at bigfoot.com>
Subject: Lauter Design

The recent posts on manifold design and grain depth have me rethinking 
the lauter tun I must build before my next batch.

I anticipate making 7 to 10 gallon, all-grain batches in my 10 gallon 
Gott cooler. I had planned to make a manifold with soft copper tubing, 
spiraling around the inside of the round cooler eventually ending up at 
and out the drain. I have a similar setup in my kettle, with holes 
drilled on the bottom of the tubing for filtering trub and hops. 

Will the 7 to 10 gallon batches create an acceptable grain depth? I don't 
care, really, as I am keeping the cooler.

I have always seen slits mentioned in lauter designs, not holes. Is there 
a reason for this?

What about the liquid under the tubing?

What other questions would I have asked?

A little feedback would be appreciated. I had a lot of responses to my 
last post requesting info on full-boils and partial-mashes. The results 
of the advice I have read here have increased the frequency and quality 
of my brewing. Thanks in advance.

 -mike


Son of a Son of a Aler, misaacs at bigfoot.com
Nothing scares me like "Vampires, Mummies and the Holy Klsh"
Jolly Mon Breweries


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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:09:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Pumpkin as a primary fermenter


Hi all. Thought I'd chime in vis-a-vis the recent questions about mashing
in pumpkins, etc.   Last year I made a nice batch of spiced pumpkin ale a
portion of which I used to fill up a hollowed-out pumpkin carcass for
use as a primary fermenter. I had saved the "lid" which formed a tight
seal across the top. Cut a small notch in the lid for a blow off tube and
away she went. The most notable difference between the portion of the
batch fermented in the pumpkin and the remainder kept in std. glass carboy
was in the clarity - the beer in the pumpkin was CRYSTAL CLEAR when I
eventually siphoned it off while the beer in the carboy remained very
cloudy for a long time, only cleared after storage in bottles. Maybe
someone should look into the possibility of using raw pumpkin as a
clarifying agent!

Stolat!

 -Alan
 

- ------------------------------------------------------------------
"Graduate school is the snooze button on the alarm clock of life."
	
	-Jim Squire


 -Alan Meeker
Johns Hopkins Hospital
Dept. of Urology

(410) 614-4974
__________________________________________________________________





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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:31:41 -0400
From: "J. Matthew Saunders" <saunderm at vt.edu>
Subject: Re:  Using a commercial keg

Brian writes:

>I have
>been buying a quarterbarrel once in a while for parties - can I somehow use
>one of those barrels for homebrew?  I would need to get out the "plug",
>clean it, fill it, and re-plug it.  Is anybody doing this?  What's involved,
>what do I need?

There is a widget called a "Keg Man" that you should be able to get at your
local homebrew shop.  It comes with instructions on how to remove American
Sankey Keg fittings.  Along with the widget, you need a screw-driver and
some kind of home-made wedge.  I can't recall how much they cost but it is
under $10.  If your local place doesn't carry them let me know and I'll
pass a web address to you of a place that will mail order them to you.

Good Luck,
Matthew.



===========================================================
The Arts in Technology--Creative Consulting and Contracting

J. Matthew Saunders (540)951-3090
saunderm at vt.edu   http://www.dogstar.org

"We have to work in the theatre of our own time,
with the tools of our own time" --Robert Edmond Jones
===========================================================




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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:30:09 -0600
From: Paul Gatza <paulg at aob.org>
Subject: AHA Seeks Invitations to Homebrewing Events

Steve Gibbs has raised the question of AHA participation in homebrewing
events in the U.S. instead focusing on the GABF. I am working at
changing that focus toward more involvement around the country at
homebrewers events. Travel to events has to be balanced with the
administrative functions at the office. The AHA is Brian Rezac and I.
The other staff that help us put out Zymurgy, perform customer service,
production etc.. are shared by the divisions of the AOB. 

Why the GABF? The GABF is the annually the largest gathering of AHA
members in the country, usually in the 1200 member range. Interaction
with the members, clubs, competition organizers results in great
contacts in the homebrewing community. As a direct result of GABF
contacts, I have scheduled attending homebrew club competitions in Las
Vegas in January and Kansas City in February. In addition I will be
headed to the competition in Princeton, NJ in December and the
Bluebonnet in March. I would like to come to Temecula as well.

If a club would like us to come to an event to speak, brew, judge or
participate in some other way, please invite us. When Brian or I can't
make it for budgetary or scheduling reasons, the AHA's Board of Advisors
is specifically spread in all regions of the country to serve as AHA
ambassadors at this type of event.  
   



- -- 
Paul Gatza
Director
American Homebrewers Association	(303) 447-0816 x 122
736 Pearl Street			(303) 447-2825 -- FAX
PO Box 1679				paulg at aob.org -- E-MAIL
Boulder, CO 80306-1679			info at aob.org -- AOB INFO
U.S.A.					http://www.beertown.org -- WEB


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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:07:36 -0600
From: "Brian LeCuyer" <bmlecuy.AT.megavision.PERIOD.com at bertha.megavision.com>
Subject: Aquarium Pump "Smell" Filter

In HBD 2811, Mark Bayer inquired about the necessity of a carbon 
filter to remove the rubber smell from the air provided by aquarium 
pumps.  This type of filter is suggested in Dave Miller's book.

I have not seen any on-line replies to this question.  I would 
appreciate feedback from people using aquarium pumps for aeration 
on whether you have experienced any "rubbery" effects, and/or 
if you use a carbon filter.

I would suggest private e-mail reply, and I will summarize back to 
the Digest if response is adequate.

Thanks to the Collective!

Brian
Columbus, NE


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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:40:21 -0700
From: Shane & Laura <scook at infoserve.net>
Subject: re:On combining decoction and household chores

Jim Bentson mentioned a alternative to standard decoctions,
<snip>
    decoction -  A method of mashing that raises the temperature of the
wash by
    removing a portion, boiling it and returning it to the mash tun.

     Gosh, to think I could have been doing my socks during my recent
decoction
    brew. I'd be saving energy also!
<end>
I tried this and found that although the gym socks added great
bitterness to my IPA the aroma left something to be desired.

Sorry but I just couldn't resist.
Shane

- --
___________________________
E-mail: scook at infoserve.net
Phone: (604) 736-1187
ICQ #: 15754362




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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:47:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Edwards <ale at cisco.com>
Subject: Mashing vs. Extract: a big deal, or not?

I want to ask you all:
Is mashing really a time-consuming pain, or is that just a myth?


In HBD #2856, Pete (Peter.Perez at smed.com) wrote
| Subject: mini-masher
|  
| Time does not always permit all-grain batches for me, but I always need
| a supply of homebrew, thus I partial mash and extract brew on occasion.
| I have seen these mini mashers, which are basically your little 1 or
| 2 gallon lunchbox size coolers with an Easymasher type screen in them
| and a valve output installed.  I am contemplating making one, but I am
| concerned that the small cooler and smaller amount of grain will not
| maintain it mash temp the way an all-grain batch does in my 10 gal
| Gott.  Anyone have experience with these things?  Can they hold their
| heat in? for an hour? can you apply heat by adding boiling water without
| thinning the mash out too much?
|  
| Thanks,
| Pete

I was going to reply to Peter and say that he would be spending close to
the same amount of time mashing small amount of grains as a large amount.

But then I got to thinking.  Perhaps people are scared to try all-grain
because of the time involved.  Sure it takes more time, but is it really
all that big of a deal?

For me (who is the only person I can speak for ;-),  I went all-grain
several years ago and NEVER looked back...not once!  That says something.
It says that there was never a *reason* for me to look back.  (And that
the improvements that I realized in my beer, have made me not *want*
to look back.)

In my experience, it only takes about 3 hours or so to turn grains into
malt syrup.  Time to wait for the mash to convert, and time to sparge.
(I'm not counting the time to bring the water to mash temp, because that
heat is not lost, and you would be spending the same amount of time to
heat your water and malt syrup.)

But, realistically, not all of that is wasted time.  The really cool
thing about the way I mash is that, after I dough-in into my Gott cooler,
I don't have to worry about it again, until it is ready to sparge!  (It
holds it's temperature extremely well.)  I can go do something else, or
use that time to prepare for other brewing steps (things that an extract
brewer would have to do as well).  So is time spent on mash conversion
really "extra" time?  Not to me.

The tasks that actually require you to focus on what you are doing are:
 * doughing in: a few of minutes
 * adjusting mash temp if you don't hit it right (decoct, or add ice):
     time varies, but you get better at this
 * starting the sparge, recirculating some of the wort: a few minutes
 * sparging--keeping hot water above the grain bed: 45-90 minutes (a guess)
 * cleaning the mash/lauter tun: a few minutes of spraying it out with a
     hose (no need to sanitize)

I don't think time or hassle should be the factors that hold you back!
Maybe money, but not time.  About money: it is a one-time investment to
buy your equipment, after that you don't need to look back.  Start out
simple (you can spend more money on other mashing gadgets later, if you
wish).  About hassle:  I really *like* mashing, but that's me.  I still
get a kick out of commanding the elements to turn mere starch into liquid
gold, er, I mean malt syrup.  Sort of like alchemy!

Of course, if you want to, or if you are brewing a style that dictates
a step-mash, you can spend more time at it.  But it is my opinion that
BIG returns await those who are willing to make the SMALL leap to a simple
all-grain process, like single-step infusion mashing into a false-bottomed
cooler.

 -Alan in Fremont, CA


PS.
Of course, the experience of other people will vary.  Please post *your*
opinions!


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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:13:08 -0400
From: "Marc Battreall" <batman at terranova.net>
Subject: King Kooker Cleaning?

Hello All,
Got a question for your King Kooker users out there.
I have one but don't know the model number. It stands about waist high and I
bought it years ago for cooking fish, shrimp boils, and the like. Now it has
been converted to a brewing cooker. It works great except for recently it
has been sooting up my SS brewpot something fierce. I cleaned the element
out with a wire brush a few months back and got out all the mud dauber gook
that was causing it to flame mostly yellow and that seemed to improve the
flame. But now, it is doing it again only worse. It has an adjustment plate
that rotates to restrict the airflow located where the gas line attaches to
the element but rotating it only modifies the flame a little.
It seems that the burner element itself is gunked up. There is a circular
disk with serrated edges that sits down inside the cup where the flame comes
out and it has alot of rust and crap on it. I cannot get the screw that
holds this disk in loose because it too is rusted severely.
My question is, has anyone ever dealt with this before and how did they
clean it out? I was thinking muratic acid would do the trick. The metal
seems to be iron or something similar to exhaust manifolds on marine engines
and I used to use muratic acid on those to get all the sea water deposits
off with no apparent damage to the metal. I really want to get this fixed
instead of buying a new one (obviously). I use liquid dishsoap on the bottom
of the brewpot and it helps, but the soot rises up and covers 2/3 of the
sides of the pot. I am sure that the flame is not as efficient as it could
be too.

Any help or ideas would be appreciated.

Marc

=======================
Captain Marc Battreall
Backcountry Brewhouse
Islamorada, Florida
batman at terranova.net
captainbrew at hotmail.com



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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:34:52 -0400
From: Jeremy Price <pricejy at email.uc.edu>
Subject: re First Wort Hopping


> Pete asked about First wort Hopping,

I started first wort hopping many of my beers about a year ago, and I am
very pleased with the results. First Wort hopping (FWH) is just as it
sounds; you add your bittering hops directly to the first  runnings of the
wort. The acidity of the wort facilitates extraction of the alpha acids in
the hop. The increased extraction of the alpha acids is compensated by the
fact that some of the bitterness will be lost in the hot break. The current
theory is that you do not need to increase the amount of hops when FW
hopping.

 Great, so why FWH? I have found that I get a cleaner, sharper bitterness
when I FWH my  German Ales, and Lagers. The bitterness is not "Muddled". An
interesting side effect of FWH is that there is also an increased
perception of hops in both the flavor and the aroma. I had been led to
believe that most the flavor and aroma compounds are volatile, and will
dissipate during a long boil; but apparently this is not always the case.
FWH is great for Pilsners, Octoberfests, Kolsch and Alts, but I have yet to
try it in an English or American style beer.  From what I have read, FWH
should only be done with noble type hops (i.e. Spalt, Saaz)

I don't know where I read this, but there was an interesting experiment
done with FWH. A brewery in Germany, brewed six Pilsners, three were hopped
in the traditional schedule, and the other three were FWH. A panel of
expert tasters predominately chose the FWH beers as their favorite.

I would be interested to learn why we don't hear more about this. I have
not heard of any commercial brewery that practices FWH. Any Ideas?

I'm sold on FWH. I've done it before and I'll do it again!!!

Jeremy Price,

Quality not Quantity !!   (sorry Chris, I stole your motto)





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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:41:28 -0700
From: Dave Sapsis <DAVE_SAPSIS at fire.ca.gov>
Subject: munich conversion/goods and process

Someone recently questioned the potential differences in diastatic power
of American vs. Continental Munich malts, derrived from an apparent lack
of conversion after a 4 hour mash smack dab in the sacharification
range.  While I cannot comment on the current condition of American
munich malts, Weyermann's have plenty of enzymes to do the trick.
To wit, Matt's indication of:
>In the FWIW category, an all-grain, Weyermann Dark Munich-based Alt is
in my not->too-distant future! I can hardly wait!

bodes well, as I just got through doing one of these, with a dough in at
60C, a single decoct (15 minute), and second rest of the main mash at
67-71C, and a lovely clear runnoff of high yield at 80 minutes after
dough in.

I guess what promts me to post is that I would strongly encourage folks
designing specific beers to use the best and most appropriate goods
possible.  For German beers, use German malts.  For British beers, use
UK malts .  It really makes a big difference.  Too often, I have
diagnosed faulty beer straight back the condition of the primary
ingredients.  The costs and energy associated with getting the right
goods for the right job are in my mind, highly outweiged by the quality
of the resultant product.

That said, there is ongoing discussions whether the state of continental
munich malts is as it once was (George Fix and Scott Bickham have both
commmented on this) and the possibility that home production may be an
excellent source for the depth of taosty flavor that is found in the
best alts, dunkles, fests, and bocks.  Be creative.  But don't expect to
make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Peace.
- --dave, sacramento



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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:41:24 EDT
From: Posse4000S at aol.com
Subject: Vent. Hood

Pete asked (10/22/89) about installing a ventillation hood in his basement in
order to safely use his propane cooker.  I would first be concerned with
burning down your house, but the question about safe levels of CO is a big
concern also.

I don't know what the alarm level is of your CO detector is, I do know I would
not rely on it soley for determining your vent hoods effectivness.
Unfortunenately, good CO monitors are not cheap.  Several manufacturers can be
found on the web.

If you trust the OSHA standards, they say the exposure threshhold of CO is 50
ppm and the 8 hour exposure limit is 25 ppm.  The Indoor Air Quality industry
standard is 5 ppm and 2.5 ppm respectively.  Somewhere around 25 ppm will not
kill you over a two hour boiling time. (99% sure of these levels)

If the hood works the CO levels will not be a problem, I would sample the CO
levels thouroughly and regularly and in several locations including other
levels of the house.  Those burners produce a lot of CO.



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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:46:29 +0000
From: dolmans at mail.tss.net
Subject: Stuck fermtation?

Hello everyone!
 As they say "I'm a long time lurker first time poster" and need some
 advice.  After brewing a lot (for me) for about a year and a half,
 (20 some odd batches) I decided it was time to scale up my brew
 system.  After getting a Sanky  keg converted and buying a propane
 burner, no more kitchen brewing to my wife's relief, it was time to
 try a 10 gallon batch.  My father was visiting and being a big
 pilsner fan we decided to brew a partial mash batch.  Well that's
 when the fun started.  Let me start by giving you the recipe and
 other relevant data.  8 pounds extra pale malt extract
5 pounds pale malt
 1 pound Munich malt
  pound crystal malt
 5 ounces Saaz (bittering)
3.5  ounces Saaz (flavoring)
_ D.M.E (had it lying around so what the heck)
1 teaspoon Irish moss
2 packages Czech pils lager yeast, 
O.G was 1.049, a little high but I figured that it was nothing to
worry about.  

Brewed and mashed as normal for me, with beer in hand and father
helping out, boy can that man stir.  After cooling with immersion wort
chiller while still in boil kettle I drained into two plastic 6.5
gallon primary fermentation buckets.  Added  yeast, 1 pint of starter
to each carboy.  Moved to fridge and over 24 hour period dropped
temperature to 50 F.  Had good krausening and fermentation seemed to
be proceeding nicely.  After one week moved to secondary and back into
fridge.  No I didn't take a hydrometer reading at that time, I know
stupid mistake.  Two weeks later time to bottle, hydrometer read
1.020, panic!!  Dad was leaving in a week and I wouldn't be able to
send beer with him.  Brew store guy suggested pitching more yeast so I
did one more packet of Czech pils lager in each carboy.  Two weeks
later still no movement in gravity still at 1.020.  What is the next
step??  I am considering bottling the beer putting it in the fridge
and forgetting about it for six months.  Would that help?  Beer
currently tastes sweetish but is not to bad ( I still believe that if
I brewed it I will drink it no matter how bad).  As you can see my
record keeping is not the greatest but I have never run into this
problem before.  Help.  

Gerard Dolmans

 Thanks in advance, private e-mail is fine.  
 Dolmans at mail.tss.net.  

 Sweaty Left Foot Brewery.  

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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 98 14:49:17 CDT
From: jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com (John Wilkinson)
Subject: Flies in the wort/GFCI/Low partial mash OG

Richard Hooper wrote of finding a dead, uncooked house fly floating in his
cooled wort.  I also had that happen once.  I had cooled and drained my wort
to sanitized buckets for aeration and found a fresh fly floating in one of
the buckets.  I quickly grabbed a spoon that had not been recently sanitized
and dipped the critter out.  I figured whatever might be on the spoon would
not be any worse than what was on the fly.  I got away with it in that the
beer turned out fine but I wouldn't recommend it.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

As to GFCI, I decided I should install such a device in the outbuilding where
I do my brewing.  I bought a GFCI receptacle to replace the ordinary one
upstream from the strip at my workbench which I intended to protect.  After I
connected everything and turned the power back on the GFCI immediately popped
off.  I couldn't figure out why and put the original receptacle back until I
could investigate further.  Some time later I noticed that the wall socket in
the strip at the workbench had the hot and neutral switched.  Still later I
got back to trying to install GFCI.  I disconnected the wires at the before
mentioned wall receptacle and started checking things.  I found the white and
ground wires were tied together.  I took the strip at the work bench apart
and found the white and black reversed and the black (now neutral) tied to
the ground.  What is more, the ground was nowhere attached to the ground
terminals of the receptacles and the black (now neutral) was attached to some
receptacles on the hot side and the ground attached to the hot side on
others.  I had been unknowingly using non-grounded receptacles on which even
polarized plugs would do no good.  Of course having the neutral and ground
alternated to the receptacles was why the GFCI tripped when I connected it.
I threw the strip out and put in regular wall receptacles with the GFCI
upstream to protect them.  Don't ever assume the person before you did their
job correctly.  I won't again.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mikey Beck asked about low OG of a batch made with 3# of DME and 3# of grain
in a partial mash.  His OG was 1.022.  Assuming a five gallon batch and 42
pts/lb for DME (I think it yields at least that) he should have had at least
1.025 if he got nothing from the grain.  I wonder if the hydrometer reading
could have been wrong?  Perhaps the wort was not adequately stirred and the
sample was not representative.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

A note on large fermenters.  I use a 10 gallon Cornelius type keg with the
pressure relief valve removed from the lid and a blow off hose or air lock
in a #3 stopper inserted.  It is heavy with 9 gallons of wort in it but I
can lift it by its handles the short distance to the floor of the
fermentation refrigerator.  When the ferment is done I replace the pressure
relief valve and transfer the beer to kegs under CO2 pressure.  I made a
transfer hose with a plastic tee so I can fill two kegs at once from the
fermenter.  Since it is stainless it is also easy to clean.  And not
fragile.


John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas - jwilkins at wss.dsccc.com




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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:44:11 -0700
From: Badger Roullett <branderr at microsoft.com>
Subject: Seeking Books...


I am seeking a copy of these out of print books, if anyone knows of a line
on one of these, let me know..

Curiosities of Ale and Beer
by John Bickerdyke

A history of brewing
by H. S. Corran

***************************************************
Brander Roullett aka Badger
Homepage: http://www.nwlink.com/~badger
In the SCA: Lord Frederic Badger of Amberhaven

 "It had to be a linguistics professor who said that it's man's ability to
use language that makes him the dominant species on the planet. That  may
be. But I think there's one other thing that separates us from animals. We
aren't afraid of vacuum cleaners."       --Jeff Stilson



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---