HOMEBREW Digest #2877 Tue 17 November 1998

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Wyeast Has a Great Product ("Rick Wood")
  Re: Who am I? (Barry Watson)
  Oats as a plural (Raymond Kruse)
  Re: Roggen flub ("George De Piro")
  Freezer drain (Forrest Duddles)
  Koelsch book by E. Warner (Markus Berndt)
  Old Bay beer / flat beer ("Spies, Jay")
  RE: Setting the gap on a Corona mill (Gary H Nazelrod)
  Singular oat, eh? (David Kerr)
  Re: Home Malting (Jeff Renner)
  Nottingham Yeast (Andrew Stavrolakis)
  Rennerangulation... (pbabcock)
  Regulators (Andrew Stavrolakis)
  perceived sweetness and SG (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  Preserving Homebrew Labels (Manbeck, Brad J.)" <BJM at roisysinc.com>
  Freezer Dehumidifier ("RANDY ERICKSON")
  RIMS False Bottom for GOTT ("RANDY ERICKSON")
  Dry Yeast / Caramelization (Paul Ward)
  Pressure sparging (PRS) - CPC" <peter_santerre at hjco.com>
  Aluminum questions (William Graham)
  Brass/Lead (William Graham)
  *wyrtjo = worth, not Wurz? (Donald Beistle)
  easy thermometer calibration ("Frederick L. Pauly")
  Sparging temperature ("Gregory M. Remake")
  Home Malting (Clifton Moore)
  Frementation end and diacetyl rest (Troy Hager)
  yeast tests (Christopher Peterson)
  Fresh Yeast (DSchaff135)
  Thermometer in sankee (Michael Rose)
  Weinacht Weisse ("Steve")
  Chill haze and RIMS ("charles beaver")
  Sight glasses, Reynolds numbers, Zapap lauters, and yeast (GuyG4)
  Debunking the Wyeast-Files (Jon Bovard)

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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:43:54 +0100 From: Barry Watson <Barry.Watson at uab.ericsson.se> Subject: Re: Who am I? Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> wrote: > but did they know where I > was? Triangulation mate! > So, keep posting your location, everyone. Distance from the center of the > hombrewing universe is optional. As for me, I'm having an out of body > experience, so I'm presently some distance from myself. > > Jeff My position relative to you as a polar coordinate [4147 miles (6674 km) (3604 nautical miles), northeast (35.2 degrees) ] Obviously you all know that as 59:23:00N 18:00:00E Stockholm, Sweden. Shalom and peace Barry Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 07:05:14 -0500 From: Raymond Kruse <kruse2 at flash.net> Subject: Oats as a plural > In the middle of another of his learmed discourses, Jeff Renner ponders > the > question of why is "oats" always plural. > This was covered in the South with the "grit" which is never used in the singular when refering to the food item. Much too small a thing to think of singly. Who would want just one oat? Ray Kruse Glen Burnie, PRMd rkruse at bigfoot.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 8:04 -0800 From: "George De Piro" <George_De_Piro at berlex.com> Subject: Re: Roggen flub Hi all, Steve Alexander pointed to a slight error in my post about Roggenbier. He notes that Thurn und Taxis has owned Schierlinger for much more than two years. To be completely accurate I should have said that T & T stopped producing Roggenb to pass under the cabinet (inside the insulation) and back to the compressor. A careful look at the external tubing layout should help spot a good drain location. On my freezers the drains are located near the front edge of the cabinet bottom and near the right side. If you add a drain hole, be sure to seal the surface of the foam insulation with silicone caulk or something similar to prevent moisture from saturating it over time. Be aware that an open drain hole will allow air exchange to the outside and may make the condensation problem worse. A drain should only be opened periodically to remove any accumulated condensate. I don't use the drains in either of my freezers. I prefer to dry the interior with dessicant instead. Recent discussion on this list has brought up several different brands to try. I've had good luck with Damp-Rid but I'll try some of the others for comparison. De-Moist sounds like a good one to try. Be aware that adding a drain hole to a new chest freezer will likely void its factory warranty. I considered the length of the warranty when I purchased my freezer and wish to keep it valid. My collar and temperature controller additions were done without altering the freezer itself in order to maintain warranty. Hope this helps! Forrest Duddles - FridgeGuy in Kalamazoo fridge at kalamazoo.net The FridgeGuy is now on line! Check out http://www.hbd.org/fridgeguy Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 07:28:31 -0700 (MST) From: Markus Berndt <Markus.Berndt at Colorado.EDU> Subject: Koelsch book by E. Warner Hi all, a couple of days ago the new book on Koelsch arrived in the mail. Since I grew up in a small town just north of Cologne, I had to read it in one sitting. It is very entertaining and informative, although I found a problem with the recipes Eric Warner includes. He gives the amount of hops in g alpha acid. If one calculates the amount of hops being used for example for the classic Koelsch (assume 5 gallon recipe, and a 4% alpha acid hop) one arrives at 23.25 g, or 0.82 oz (this includes about 15% aroma hops). Now, assuming 30% utilization during the boil I get an estimated IBU level of 15 (this is probably an upper bound since I am assuming that all the hops contributes equally to the bitterness, including the aroma hops). The recipe, however, gives a target of 22 IBUs. Am I missing something? - Markus - -- Zwischen Leber und Milz passt immer ein Pils (or Koelsch :) -- Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:44:56 -0500 From: "Spies, Jay" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us> Subject: Old Bay beer / flat beer All - Mikey Beck has the unmitigated temerity to call Old Bay (seasoning of the Gods) **RANCID** !!! You shall be immediately drawn and quartered if you are caught setting foot in Maryland . . . :-) Hmmm . . . Old Bay Beer. Being a lifelong Marylander, and a devotee of steamed crabs coated in the stuff, I'd have to say I'd probably have to take a pass on a beer *made* with it. Remember that it's about 95% salt. We don't go adding salt to our beers in any appreciable quantity, and I'd be hard pressed to find a way to separate the "Old Bay flavor" from the salt. (if anyone has a way, let's hear it . . .) However, I usually like to drink a light-bodied pilsner with steamed crabs. If you're feeling adventurous, you could try dumping some Old Bay into a few bottles (or cans) of Budmillors crap and see what you think. Hell, it couldn't get any worse, and at least you might be able to actually *taste* something. OTOH, my personal favorite addition for non-crab Old Bay is in tuna salad. Easy as hell, and tastes great. Just substitute it for your normal spices. On another note, Pete Gottfield complains about flat beer, and Dave B. advises using a kraeusening starter. While this will probably work fine, I do the following: I usually have a batch in primary and another in secondary which used the same yeast. When I bottle the batch from secondary, I try to "steal" some of the yeast from the primary by siphoning off some of the primary cake. I swirl the racking cane around in the primary to suck up a lot of the yeast, and usually don't end up taking more than a cup or so. This gives the bottled beer some healthy, active yeast to work with. Just make sure you use the same strain, or one with *very* similar attenuation characteristics. If you don't, the new yeast may eat some stuff that the original yeast left behind and leave you with overcarbonated beer, or a basement full of glass shards. I've found that I can even use the (same) yeast from a different style of beer. The flavor contribution from a cup or so in 5 gallons is not noticeable in most of my ales (probably not so for a lighter beer), and the reliability of carbonation is, I think, worth it. Hope this helps, Jay Spies Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery BALMER MARYLAND HON !! go O's!! -- er . . . never mind. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:39:47 -0500 From: Gary_H_Nazelrod at tst.tracor.com (Gary H Nazelrod) Subject: RE: Setting the gap on a Corona mill In HBD#2857 "Bill G. Riel" <briel at ibm.net> asks: >First time poster (and relatively new brewer here). I've acquired a >Corona mill, and I was wondering if any owners of this mill could tell >me how to set the gap correctly for the best crush? I searched the hbd >archives and found one suggestion to use a dime between the plates, >then turn an extra 1/4 to 1/2 times, but that seems like it would be a >pretty narrow gap. Any ideas (or is trial and error my best bet?) I have never tried the dime method; it is not clear from your post whether the extra 1/4 to 1/2 times is in or out. I used the trial and error method. I started with the gap wide enough that some grains would pass through uncrushed. I then gradually decreased the gap until no grains passed through uncrushed. With this setting I do get quite a bit a flour. You need to crank the handle a few times between adjustments to ensure that the grains you are inspecting were really crushed at this setting. Depending on your lauter method you may find this setting too fine. I use an easymasher and do not have a problem with a stuck sparge. Good Luck Gary Nazelrod Silver Spring MD (too lazy to calculate my JR coordinates) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:09:27 -0500 From: David Kerr <dkerr at semc.org> Subject: Singular oat, eh? I've heard noted beer enthusiasts Bob and Doug Makenzie say "Get oat of here, you hoser!" Dave Kerr - Needham, MA, a 4 hour drive from the Great White North Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:14:55 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Home Malting >From: "J.Kish" <jjkish at worldnet.att.net> challenges me: > >Jeff Renner, > That article about home malting by R.C. Dale sure turned me on. >The only problem is; It's so difficult to obtain good brewer's barley! >The market should open up so that home brewers can buy bags of >Harrington or Klages barley, or even six-row barley for experimenting! >Why don't you lead the way? I think I'll continue to champion the cause of Classic American Pilsner and let others tackle this one. I believe that Dan Listermann has grown Klages. You could check with your local feed mill for untreated seed malt. Farmers may be another local source. I got 6-row feed barley from a farmer who had cleaned it for planting with a small cabinet fan mill. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:24:02 -0500 From: Andrew Stavrolakis <andrew_stavrolakis at harvard.edu> Subject: Nottingham Yeast Well, with Danstar Nottingham yeast mentioned in 3+ posts in HBD #2875, I feel compelled to add my $.02. I haven't read the Zymurgy article rapping dry yeasts, but I have used Nottingham extensively to brew *many* different types of beer and have found it to be very predictable in its performance. I have never had it produce a bad beer. That said, it has certain characteristics that should be considered when using it in a recipe. First, it is highly attenuative, on the order of >80%. It tolerates cool temperatures, down to 55F. It is very alcohol tolerant - I've fermented out a 13.5% ABV mead with it, and *still* had enough juice to carbonate it. And lastly, it is very neutral in its flavor, and is highly flocculant. That said, if used in a normal gravity (say 1.050) ale, you run the risk of ending up with a very dry, alcoholic brew. To get a full bodied, but fully attentuated brew, I recommend mashing at 155F or higher, with no more than 1.25 quarts/lb of liquor. Where this yeast shines, though, is in barleywines. You can pitch as many packs as you need to get the yeast count up, it will *not* poop out, even for bottle conditioning. The neutral flavor allows an aggressive fermentation without worrying about overpowering esters. The barleywines I've brewed with this yeast ferment quickly and are ready to drink in as soon as 6-10 weeks, but still improve with further aging. You could brew a winter warmer with this yeast today and have it be ready in time for Christmas. So, as with anything else, be careful of the tool you select for the job. Nottingham is not my first choice for pale ales or bitters. But I wouldn't use anything else for big time barleywines. Cheers, Andrew. ************************************************************ Andrew J. Stavrolakis Controller LASPAU: Academic and Professional Programs for the Americas 25 Mount Auburn Street Cambridge, MA 02138 phone:617-495-0543 fax: 617-495-8990 email:Andrew_Stavrolakis at harvard.edu http://www.laspau.harvard.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:29:31 -0500 (EST) From: pbabcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com> Subject: Rennerangulation... Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Barry writes: > My position relative to you as a polar coordinate > [4147 miles (6674 km) (3604 nautical miles), northeast (35.2 degrees) ] > > Obviously you all know that as 59:23:00N 18:00:00E Stockholm, Sweden. Obviously. See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..." Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:39:00 -0500 From: Andrew Stavrolakis <andrew_stavrolakis at harvard.edu> Subject: Regulators Hi all, Let me preface this question by saying I don't currently keg my beer and my knowledge of compressed gas is limited to an appreciation of it making my beer fizzy;-) This weekend I purchased a regulator at a flea market for 10$. It looks to be in good condition. It appears to be brass; it has (I think) a 7/8" female tapered thread flare fitting on one side, and a 1/2" tapered thread male nipple on the other. It says "Listed compressed gas regulator" "2 stage oxygen" "Craftsmen model #313.54302" on the face. It has two intact guages, one to 3000lb the other to 150lb. Could I use this for C02? This may be the kick in the a$$ I needed to get me out of bottles. Thanks for the help. andrew_stavrolakis at harvard.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:53:24 -0500 (EST) From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu> Subject: perceived sweetness and SG Recently, Dean Fikar wrote about his stuck fermentation: "...........It did take the SG down to about 1.020. I still thought that the beer tasted a little sweet. I was pretty discouraged at this point and seriously considered dumping the batch. As a last resort, I pitched packets of champagne yeast and Nottingham dry yeast, both properly hydrated. The beer fermented down to 1.016 and tasted very good with little residual sweetness." My question is, can a change in SG from 1.020 to 1.016 really knock down the perceived sweetness that much? Was Dean on some threshold between too sweet and just right? Of course, I suppose this could be a significant change in the amount of sugar left - 20% assuming the entire SG above 1.000 is coming from sweet sugars... Any thoughts? -Alan Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:37 -0600 From: "BJM (Manbeck, Brad J.)" <BJM at roisysinc.com> Subject: Preserving Homebrew Labels I am creating labels for homebrew that I brewed for Christmas presents. I am looking for suggestions on ways to seal / preserve the ink on the labels. I'd like them not to run if they find a little condensation. Private emails are fine. Thanks - Brad Burlap Shack Brewery bjm at roisysinc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:16:17 -0800 From: "RANDY ERICKSON" <RANDYE at mid.org> Subject: Freezer Dehumidifier Overton's (the waterski catalog) has the Dri-Out brand dehumidifier with the plastic basket and white crystals if anyone is having trouble finding these in the hardware stores. www.overtons.com The basket and 2# of crystals go for $8 --- p/n 21908 The 2# refill is $5 --- p/n 21909 Randy in Modesto Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:29:15 -0800 From: "RANDY ERICKSON" <RANDYE at mid.org> Subject: RIMS False Bottom for GOTT Hi all: I've got about $100 invested in my RIMS so far (just getting started in other words) and I'm buying parts as I decide on various design options. Kyle in Bakersfield has been extraordinarily patient in trying to describe for me his annular ring (two pizza screens sandwiching a fine stainless mesh and raised about an inch off of the tun floor) false bottom that he uses in his GOTT mash tun. I know that some folks use Phloating false bottoms, and C.D. Pritchard's spirally stainless braided hose design looks promising, but I'm curious to hear about some of the other false bottom options. Do any of you GOTT RIMSers have a false bottom design that's particulary elegant, easy, cheap, etc? An enquiring (though somewhat thick) mind wants to know. Randy in Modesto Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:33:44 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Ward <paulw at doc.state.vt.us> Subject: Dry Yeast / Caramelization Paul Shick is throwing together a 'spur of the moment ale', and is wondering about using Nottingham dry yeast and what the results will be. I need the convenience of dry yeast (literally no time to tend to starters), and have tried just about all of them. Nottingham was my favorite because of its' clean flavor profile and reliability (sort of like a dry 1056). However, a few months ago I ran across a new dry yeast called 'Safale' - which I reported on here. I have used Safale in about 7 batches since then including my only back-to-back exact same recipe with the only variable being the yeast. In batch #1 I used Nottingham and in batch #2 I used Safale. I kept the recipe as easy as I could to compare these two yeasts: 3.3 lbs Munton's Light liquid malt extract 3.3 lbs Munton's Dark liquid malt extract 1 oz. Northern Brewer pellets for 60 minutes 1 oz. East Kent Golding pellets for 15 minutes I don't remember what the SG/FG was offhand, but there was only .001 or .002 difference between them. Granted, the Nottingham batch is 10 days older than the Safale batch, but they are both over 60 days old now, so are about as close together in drinkabilitiness as they are ever going to be. My uneducated and totally predjudiced palet is able to pick up quite a taste difference between them. The Nottingham batch is quite dry and has a strong hop presence. The Safale batch is much maltier in taste, better balancing the hops. Although I've never done back to back comparisons with my all grain batches, my recollection is that the Nottingham is a clean and dry fermenter there also, but I mash high (temperatures) and get a lot of unfermentables, so it works better there than in extract batches. I would recommend to Mr. Shick that he pump up the crystal a little to account for the attenuation of the Nottingham, it really seems to eat a lot of sugars. ****************** George De Piro quoted Mort O'Sullivan (talking about making crystal malt) thusly, "Once caramelized, these sugars are no longer sugars, and so are not fermentable by yeast." Does anybody know at what point (temperature) caramelization/Maillard reactions start to occur? I've long felt that caramelization of my priming sugar solution is part of the inconsistency I experience in carbonation levels. I usually boil my priming sugar in a cup or so of water while preparing my bottling bucket. Sometimes it boils quite a while, sometimes less. One batch I boiled so long it ended up a deep amber color by the time I added it to the bucket, and that batch never did carbonate. If I just bring my sugar/water solution up to a boil and then cover and remove from heat, can I assume that it is sufficiently sanitized for priming since it will be brought to 100C and then gradually cool until I'm ready for it? Everything I've read says that it has to be boiled to sanitize properly. Paul in Vermont paulw at doc.state.vt.us - -- According to government height/weight charts, I'm seven and a half feet tall. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:51:00 -0800 From: "Santerre, Peter (PRS) - CPC" <peter_santerre at hjco.com> Subject: Pressure sparging Thomas Murray Writes: "I read somewhere that a German brewer of Roggenbier uses some kind of pressure sparging technique to force the sparge water through the grain bed. The grist had a high percentage of rye in it, something like what you suggested (65%) as I recall." This got me to thinking - (Uh oh) Would it be possible to put in an 'easy masher' type pickup on the end of the 'Out' line in a corney keg and use this to do a pressurized mash? The trouble I thought would be getting both sparge water and pressure into the keg at the same time - but this could be done by using a second corny filled with 170'F water and pushing it out of that with the co2 into the corney lauter tun. You could simply collect the wort (vert vort wyrt w0rt) from the out side of the lauter tun with a cobra head tap (or whatever.) My thoughts on this - 1: This would eliminate HSA during this procedure since you would be using c02 to move the sweet wort and not gravity. 2: Corney Kegs probably wouldn't hold heat very well for mashing in/holding sparge water but there are ways to insulate i guess. 3: You could regulate the out flow to a pretty steady rate, or at least better than the damn plastic inline ball valve I have on my sparge arm/out line. 4: Stuck grainbed? Never! Just crank up the co2 baby! (Just kidding, I could see 12 pounds of 170'F grain blowing up. Or cabonated grain? hmmm) Has anyone ever tried this? What do you guys think would be the benefits/problems with this idea? I think that if I do not have any responses with critical problems suggested, I am going to try this. -ShoCKValue (AKA Pete Santerre) .Both personal and public responses are welcome, but keep it on the HBD if you think it has any value and don't bother replying if you don't. ;) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:05:19 -0700 (MST) From: William Graham <weg at rmi.net> Subject: Aluminum questions Distributed Collective- I'm NOT asking if aluminum is safe for brewing - I'm (pretty) convinced. Because of the superior heat conductivity of aluminum vs. stainless steel, I've decided to move from my kegs to big, heavy duty Vollrath aluminum stock pots for my brewing pleasure. So, does anyone have any experiences using aluminum that they would like to share? How do you clean your pots? How did you get your fittings installed? Did you weld in a coupling? Did you use bulkhead fittings? Any specifics would be greatly appreciated. BTW, I'm getting a 60 qt for the mash/lauter tun, and an 80 qt for the boiler. The aluminum is 1 gauge (.281") Thanks, Bill "...the only way to deal with bureaucrats is with stealth and sudden violence." - Butros Butros-Ghali Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:22:00 -0700 (MST) From: William Graham <weg at rmi.net> Subject: Brass/Lead Brewers- I've seen references to an experiment that was done that disproved the notion that brewing in aluminum pots was unsafe. The gist of the experiment was that aluminum levels were measured in wort before and after a boil in aluminum. The aluminum levels were identical. My question is: has this been done for "deleaded" brass? (By "deleaded", I mean soaked in a solution of vinegar and H2O2.) Does anyone know for sure that "deleaded" brass will stay "deleaded" in the face of tens or hundreds of batches at boiling temperatures in a fairly acidic environments? Frankly, I'm not convinced at all - I need more convincing that lead won't end up in my beer than aluminum. I think we can all agree that lead is much more dangerous than aluminum... So why haven't we tested it even to the same level we tested for aluminum? My fittings are stainless steel. Bill "...the only way to deal with bureaucrats is with stealth and sudden violence." - Butros Butros-Ghali Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:21:34 -0500 (EST) From: Donald Beistle <dbeistle at arches.uga.edu> Subject: *wyrtjo = worth, not Wurz? Ted Major's recent postings regarding the origins and morphology of the word "wort" prompt me to wonder if the familiar etymology for this brew-snob shibboleth might be wrong. That is, English "wort" and its German cognate "Wurz" are supposed to be descendants of the same Proto-Germanic word that gives Modern German the other "Wurz", meaning root. The logic here is obvious to homebrewers: wort is the "root" of the beer. However, the concept of "Stammwurz" (O.G., lit. "stem/original strength") argues against such an interpretation because of the semantic redundancy evident in linking "Stamm" (meaning source) with "Wurz" (also meaning source). So, might it be that the common Germanic word behind all the modern cognates of "wort" did not mean "root" but rather "worth"? The logic behind such an interpretation would be that we brewers mash grains in order to extract their hidden "worth." What do you think, Ted? We can chew the Anglo-Saxon fat privately if this linguistic discussion seems to be straying too far afield for the HBD. Waes hael! Donald Beistle Athens, Georgia Way south of Jeff Renner Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:33:51 -0500 From: "Frederick L. Pauly" <flp2m at avery.med.virginia.edu> Subject: easy thermometer calibration I was worried about the accuracy of my thermometers and came up with what I think is a good solution. We have a people thermometer that I assume has got to be prettiy accurate around 98.6F So I got a sink full of water at about 98F and tested all my thermometers against it. Can I stop worrying now???? Rick Pauly Charlottesville, Va Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:37:56 -0600 From: "Gregory M. Remake" <gremake at gsbalum.uchicago.edu> Subject: Sparging temperature Greetings, I've found some contradictory information regarding proper sparging temperature. I understand that to avoid tannin extraction (assuming an appropriate pH), I don't want the grains to reach a temperature much above 170F. Many sources state this as the reason to heat sparge water no higher than 170F. However, other sources maintain that due to thermal losses, one may use sparge water near boiling temperatures and never raise the grain bed above 170F (assuming a properly slow flow rate). Therefore my question is, what is the optimal grain bed temperature (if there is one) and why? Is it simply less than 170F? Or is it a range, like 165F to 170F? I seem to be able to control my grain bed temperature fairly well, but I just don't know what to shoot for. Gregory M. Remake Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:32:24 -0900 From: Clifton Moore <cmoore at gi.alaska.edu> Subject: Home Malting I am another of those who has spent much of the past few years working through questions relating to home malting. I am still accumulating questions at a much greater rate than answering them, but in the process I am starting to pick up a "big picture" view. First: Why is it so hard to buy raw malting barley? The farmers are going out on a limb hoping to gain a premium price for their effort of growing malting barley. Unfortunately, it is not easy to do, as the requirements of the malters are very stringent, and depending on market demand, most of their source product is likely to be purchased from contract growers where the product is monitored from seed to harvest. Imagine you have grown a few hundred tones of malting barley only to discover that for some reason unrelated to the quality of your product, your barley is rejected. The farmer will be looking to the feed market to purchase his product. Now he is faced with an inferior product for the feed market due to the low protein content designed into the malting product. To sell off a few bags to home malters would only more firmly stigmatize his product as "failed malting barley". By trying to capture a slight premium, the grower ends up with a reduced value product. Selling a few bags to home brewers is not going to turn this around. The reason malting is a segregated specialty is that it is harder than brewing. I culture yeast, mash 10 gallon batches, and keg in cornies. None of this comes close to the complexity inherent in the growing and curing of the raw barley. It is exquisitely complex. Much like brewing, it can be done with a little effort and a few simple steps. But when it comes to dealing with the nuances of steeping, germinating, and kilning, the complexity is stunning. I hope that this group can have a hand in making source barley available to home brewers. From this is sure to follow advancements in the malting field. This is not to say that the malting labs are not filled with skilled practitioners, but the entire process is deeply set in traditions and might well benefit from contributions by "the collective". Much in the same way ammeter radio enthusiasts have pioneered modern communications, I believe home brewers are having an impact on commercial brewing. Clifton Moore Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:38:21 -0800 From: Troy Hager <thager at bsd.k12.ca.us> Subject: Frementation end and diacetyl rest Fellow Brewers: I have been wondering about how others tell when a fermentation is over and when to rack to the secondary. I have heard some say when your airlock is bubbling only once a minute it should be racked. I have also heard others say to take a gravity reading and when it is down to your target FG then it is over. I have heard brewpub brewers say that they crash-cool ales after three days or so (I suppose they take a SG reading to see if it is low enough and then chill it down). I have had many ales bubble away furiously for a couple days and then quickly slow down - I have also had many keep bubbling away for days sometimes up to a week... I suppose this all doesn't matter much if you just throw it into another carboy or keg and leave it at cellar temps. but, I have been puting my beer into the fridge for some cold storage during the secondary to facilitate settling and dropping out some of the yeast and bread materials in a timely manner. Is this a good idea? What about a diacetyl rest? I have been told that for a diacetayl rest you should let the beer stand at ferm. temps for a couple days after the end of the fermentation, but if you don't know when the fermentation officially ends, this is a tough call. Thanks for the help!!! -Troy Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:52:42 -0500 From: Christopher Peterson <peterscc at email.uc.edu> Subject: yeast tests Collective, Some comments and questions to you all regarding the yeast taste tests in the lastest issue of zymurgy. First, this is exactly the type of information I am looking for when selecting yeast strains, the little blurbs given in the catalogues can be vague at times. In my opinion, we are all better served when we have more useful information regarding the ingredients we use in brewing. While the information provided was useful, I found the strains selected to be somewhat random. And perhaps they were. To those of you in the hbd collective who are actually involved with some of these magazines, I propose similar, yet smaller experiments, that involve the analysis of categories of yeast. For example, a couple of brewing friends and I performed an experiment using 4 belgian ale strains to ferment the exact same wort. We learned about some of the common characteristics as well as unique charateristics for each strain. Without going into any detail, we all concluded that we prefered wyeast trappist to wyeast belgian ale II, and to a strain obtained from a bottle of La Fin Du Monde (Note however that the beers were actually fairly young-3 months-for belgian yeasts so perhaps we should repeat this experiment with longer conditioning thrown in). The fourth strain was wyeast belgian wit. Since the grist was probably inappropriate for this yeast, I didnt include it in my final considerations. To me it would be great if there was an english ale experiment which described the characteristics these yeast. Ditto lager yeasts. This may be a bit much for every issue, but seems reasonable for a yearly feature. This type of article could be done with hops as well as malts. Any comments? Christopher Peterson peterson at molgen.uc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:25:46 EST From: DSchaff135 at aol.com Subject: Fresh Yeast This is a newbie question. Everytime I go and get yeast from the brew shop they tell me it is really fresh. I was told by one person who works there that if the liquid is somewhat clear and the sediment is a beige color it is fresh. I am using liquid yeast cultures that have supposedly come from Wyeast packs and the store has cultured. I just had a bad experience with the last batch. The sediment was brown and the starter never took off. I pitched the yeast anyways and have had very little signs of fermentation. I don't believe I did anything to shock/kill the yeast. I don't really know what to do besides pitch another batch of yeast. Any suggestions? Hoppy Brewing Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:56:27 -0800 From: Michael Rose <mrose at ucr.campuscw.net> Subject: Thermometer in sankee I'm using a converted sankee keg with 1/2 inch NPT fitting in the side for my mash tun. I want to install a dail (bimetal) thermometer. How far into the mash tun should the probe extend to get accuate readings? Thanks, Mike Rose Riverside, CA mrose at ucr.campuscw.net Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:50:35 -0500 From: "Steve" <stjones1 at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Weinacht Weisse Greetings, all. A friend has asked me if I could brew a beer like one he had in Germany several years ago. He called it Weinacht Weisse, and said it was a winter beer, or Christmas beer. I've never heard of it - has anyone else out there in HBDland any knowledge of it? Is it a Southern style weisse or Berliner Weisse? Any hints on a recipe? TIA for any help. Steve State of Franklin Homebrewers Johnson City, Tennessee http://home.att.net/~stjones1 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:33:11 -0600 From: "charles beaver" <cbeav at netnitco.net> Subject: Chill haze and RIMS I recently added a RIMS setup to my 15 gallon three-tier brewing system. The mash circulates by pump to the top of the grain bed and is distributed by means of a drilled copper helix just under the top of the grain bed. I use Nylo-braid hose so I can see that the mash clears in about 20 minutes, but I mash for a full 60 minutes ending with a mash out to 170 F. My extraction efficiency has improved to 70% from 65% with this system. But there's trouble in Paradise. I now have a significant problem with chill-haze I never had before. The beer is clear at room temp, but upon cooling a severe chill-haze forms. I plan to treat it with Polyclar, but I would rather avoid the problem altogether. Am I mashing too long causing leaching of tannins? I don't think there is any aeration problem. The beer tastes great and there are no off flavors. Any comments will be appreciated. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:29:54 EST From: GuyG4 at aol.com Subject: Sight glasses, Reynolds numbers, Zapap lauters, and yeast Scott asks: > Can a site glass be put on the side of a converted Keg with out welding? > If > so, what is the best way of doing so? Any advice welcome. E-mail ok. > Yes. I used two 1/4 inch male NPT by 1/8 inch compression male elbows. I drilled one appropriate sized hole in my keg just above the bottom weld, and one appropriate sized hole in my keg just below the top weld, but on a line above the bottom hole. These I tapped with 1/4 inch tap, and threaded the fittings into the holes. I first connected the two elbows with 1/8 inch diameter poly tubing, but testing made it melt and leak I used Teflon tubing, and have'nt had a problem since. At boiling, the liquid in the sight glass jumps around a bit, and this design allows those goodies to go back into the boiler, not spray all over and waste beer. Total investment, about 5 bucks, 3 bucks for the two elbows, a buck fifty for the teflon. I had the drill and borrowed the tap. Works for me. > RE: recent discusssion from Scott Murman and Paul Niebergall re: lautering flow rates and Reynold's numbers The Reynolds number is a dimensionless number expressing the ratio of inertial to viscous forces during flow. It is generally used to distinguish between laminar flow at low velocities and turbulent flow at high velocities. As discussed in a textbook I have, the Reynolds number for flow through porous media is defined as R=(pvd)/u, where R is the Reynolds number, p is the fluid density, u is the viscosity, v is the specific discharge (the darcy velocity or small v Paul talked about in HBD 2876), and d is a "representative length dimension for the porus medium, variously taken as a mean pore dimension, a mean particle diameter, or some function of the square root of the permeability k" (Freeze and Cherry, Groundwater, 1979, pg. 72) F and C further cite Bear (in Dynamics of Fluids in Porous Media, 1972) stating that "Darcys law is valid as long as the Reynolds number based upon the average grain diameter does not exceed some value between one and 10. For this range of Reynolds numbers, all flow through granular media is laminar." If you want to try this approach, note that v is defined as discharge per unit area. You may want to go from there, and be sure to be clear about what you use for the variable d. I think you'll find Darcy's law applicable to the problem. I think Reynolds numbers might be most applicable to this problem in terms of flow within individual pore spaces, not within the volume of interconnected pores. Darcy's law is an empirical law which describes flow through a volume which is occupied in part by irregularly shaped solid material. There are several mathematical problems with a Darcian approach to lautering, largely dealing with viscosity of wort, compressibility of grain, and other complicating issues, and we must remember that such an approach only explains the physical parameters of flow, not the chemical parameters of displacement and dissolution which are so important to us in lautering. This does not discount the importance of understanding the physical forces on lautering. I suggest we reexamine John Palmer's work. He essentially used empirical models to illustrate the flowpaths taken by water/wort through grain comparing different drainage configurations. (using compressible media, by the way). A Darcian model approximates what he demonstrated (which I've forwarded to John) but in general, the empirical model stands on its own, in the tradition of Darcy himself. I believe any attempt at modeling must explain the empirical observation. I think approaching it from a Reynolds number angle is the wrong tree under which to bark, though the analysis is interesting to read. And, ulitimately, it may actually get there if flow is effectively laminar in the lautertun over a reasonable distance. My guess is that Scott's Stokes Law citation probably refers to the Navier- Stokes equations, which Bear used to try to derive Darcy's law. How well does it work? Well, I don't begin to comprehend Bear, so I guess I don't know. As to Zapap style false bottoms, I believe drains are superior for homebrewing. Megabreweries may be a different story. There are 3 elements to a zapap: the saturated grain; the volume under the false bottom, and the valve. If you remove the volume under the false bottom faster than the saturated grain can provide it, you will stick your lauter until you can establish hydraulic continuity between all three elements. The drain cannot remove liquid faster than it can be yielded by the grain, and as John's experiments indicate, simple drains are very effective at draining the entire grain area of a homebrew sized lautertun. The best use I've had for my zapap was soaking barley during home malting. Paul Schick asks about Nottingham Yeast in HBD 2875.. > My imagination leapt immediately to visions of a very clean Scotch ale. > On the other hand, the Nottingham apparently attenuates quite highly (80+ > %) so it's probably not quite right for a very malty Scotch. Is it fruity > enough for a nice bitter? Is it better suited for American styles? I'm > really dreaming of a nice Goldings/Willamette hopped pale ale with a > fruity palate. Any hope? In my view, London yeast is my dry yeast of choice for the kind of flavors you're looking for. Nottingham has worked best for me with lighter ales for spring/summer consumption; London is pretty terrific for fuller bodied beers. I for one have found these Danstar products to perform remarkably well, especially when brewdays cannot be planned three days in advance. I always pitch two packs of yeast. No, I don't work for Danstar, etc. Say, I'm really enjoying all the threads recently. Can't we resurrect botulism? Guy Gregory Lightning Creek Home Brewery Spokane, WA At my age, flowing well is its own reward. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:52:59 +1000 From: Jon Bovard <jonbovard at geocities.com> Subject: Debunking the Wyeast-Files What follows is what I received from David Lodgson At Wyeast. Great customer service as always! Cheers Jon Jon, There are no plans to phase out small packs. We will continue to produce them at the same cost, and make them available to all. Thanks for the note. Cheers! Return to table of contents
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