---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Sprouting malt / canning / serving beer ("George De Piro")
  Oatmeal Stout (Ted McIrvine)
  All Munich by Mistake (Jack Schmidling)
  Re: Drilling Holes in Glass Carboys ("Bill Splaine")
  Re:Site glass,Sight glass,Pallets,palates,palettes and palaces (Rod Prather)
  Re:Milk and gummed labels. (Rod Prather)
  Brewery Hill Caramel Porter (PVanslyke)
  ReRe: Si(gh)te Glass (Tim Anderson)
  Say What 2 (William Frazier)
  Hennepin "farmhouse ale" ("Thomas Kramer")
  Cheap 240VAC GFI??? (Rod Prather)
  Brew room setup ("Stephen Jordan")
  Pronunciations continued ("Brad McMahon")
  A Mystery of Some Gravity (Mark Tumarkin)
  re: site glass (Mark Tumarkin)
  Victory HopDevil bitter-sweet (William Frazier)
  Phil's Phloating False Bottom (Cdma77)
  240V service, I need a neutral ("Dana H. Edgell")
  Re: Heat Exchanger details ("Dana H. Edgell")
  Soehnle digital scales ("DARMARHAD")
  High-gravity flat beer (Davemundo)
  beginner stuff (j miller)
  MCAB Entry Packets (Louis Bonham)
  I think I can...I think I can... (Redholling)
  Fw: ABG, lack of recipes ("shilo")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 28 Nov 98 01:29:41 PST
From: "George De Piro" <gdepiro at fcc.net>
Subject: Sprouting malt / canning / serving beer

Hi all,

Dave B. "sincerely doubts" that malt can sprout.  Well, he has never 
tried it!
I must admit I had the same reaction when Jim Basler of Briess malting 
told
me that malt can grow, but rather than just doubt it, I tried it.

It grows!

The germination rate is horrific, and the best results were achieved 
using fresh,
homemade malt, but it can be done.  You could then take the seed from the
 plant
or two that you grow and plant them to make more barley seeds of a 
malting variety.
- -----------------------------------------------------------
A few people have talked about canning, saying that it is acceptable to 
simply put
hot wort into jars or beer bottles.  While this can work, it is not the 
best way to can
wort (or anything).

I like my starter wort to be sterile. Yes, I used that word on purpose. 
 Sterility is only
ensured (not insured; that should make Pete happy) by pressure canning. 
 If you
don't own a pressure cooker, then a boiling water bath can be used to can
 wort
with better results than simply putting hot wort into jars.

It is really no extra work.  If you are making starter wort form extract,
 simply dissolve
the extract in hot water, add some hops (I have been using iso-hop 
extract) and put
it into Mason jars.  Put these into the pressure cooker or boiling water 
bath and
let 'er rip.  There is no need to boil the wort before putting it in the 
jars.
- -----------------------------------------------------------
Bob asks people to chime in about they serve beer.  Since the queue is 
short, I'll
write in:

The last time I was at my friend Bill Coleman's house I served him a CAN 
(yes, CAN)
of Belle Vue Kriek via the old "shot gun" method.  It seemed appropriate 
for such a
sickening brew.

In this way none of Bill's fancy Belgian glassware was contaminated by 
the
mass-market blech.  Unfortunately, the floor didn't fare so well...

Have fun!

George de Piro  (Nyack, NY)

Have you ever noticed that the word "phoenics" cannot be pronounced 
phoenetically?
I love English.


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Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 23:15:23 -0800
From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Oatmeal Stout

5 lbs. Pale Malt
3.5 lbs. Munich Malt
1 lb.  Roast Barley
At sparge:  2 Oz. Chocolate & 2 Oz. Black Patent
Mash at 152 for 1 hour.  I treat NYC tap water with 2 tablespoons of
Calcium Carbonate.  (NYC water is great, mine is slightly acidic and
otherwise fairly neutral.)  Adjust for your own water.

Mash separately 1 lb. oatmeal 1 lb. flaked barley.  I use a protein rest
at 125 degrees before raising to 150 and place this in top of the
regular mash so it doesn't set as a glue near the bottom of the mash.

Last time I hopped with 1 oz. Northern Brewer (boil) and 1 oz. East Kent
Goldings (30 minutes).

Mine produced an OG of 60 for 5.5 gallons.  I used Scotch ale yeast and
got quite a bit of residual sweetness with no astringency.

Ted

> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:02:25 -0800
> From: "Bryan L. Gros" <gros at bigfoot.com>
> Subject: oatmeal stout
> 
> any suggestions for an oatmeal stout?
> I've got some ideas from the cat's meow, but many of those
> recipes are extract, for whatever reason. I want an all-grain
> recipe.
> 
> How much oatmeal in 5 gallons? How much roast barley?
> How many IBUs? What mashing schedule?
> 
> thanks for your help.  Lewis' book _Stout_ was less than
> helpful.
> 
> Bryan Gros    gros at bigfoot.com
> Oakland, CA
> 
> Organizer, 1999 National Bay Area Brew Off
> http://www.dnai.com/~thor/dboard/babo99.htm


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Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 10:22:25 -0800
From: Jack Schmidling <arf at mc.net>
Subject: All Munich by Mistake

vland1 at juno.com (Vernon R Land)

"The intelligent clerk gave me 8 lbs. of Munich and 0.5 lbs.
of pale.  I didn't notice until I drove home and began to crack
it open........

This could have been the best mistake he/you ever made but you forgot
to tell us what brand of malt you bought.

I just finished the last of, what we think was, the greatest beer
ever made at the World's Greatest Brewery (tm).

     http://user.mc.net/arf/wgb.htm

The grain bill was 12 lbs DeWolf Kozens/Cosins?... can never
remember... Munich and 3 lbs of CaraMunich, same brand.  The hops
was  green home grown Chinook and the yeast was PU.  I mashed it
like every other beer I make (90 min at 155) and it produced about 8
gallons of 65 gravity wort.  I did not add brewing water after
fermenting as I usually do to bring it back to ten gallons.

Yum... yum.

js




- -- 

Visit our WEB pages:     http://user.mc.net/arf

ASTROPHOTO OF THE WEEK..... New Every Monday



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Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 10:35:48 -0800
From: "Bill Splaine" <bsplaine at sonic.net>
Subject: Re: Drilling Holes in Glass Carboys

I did not see the original post as I'm quite new here... so if it is off topic 
please forgive me.  I understand the question is how to safely drill a hole 
thru a glass carboy to install a valve.

Drilling holes in glass carboys is definately NOT dangerous but you have to 
have the right tools to do it.  I have done this many times safely.  I am a 
machinist and have the tools to build the drills easily.  I have never tried 
the drills that are supposed to be good for drilling holes in ceramics or 
glass and would probably NOT try these.  However, once the hole is drilled I 
don't see how one would get the valve nut into the small neck of the carboy 
much less manipulate it onto the valve and tighten it... maybe I'm not seeing 
something here.. or I haven't seen the valve type in question.  I'm thinking 
of the plastic valves sold in brewing supply stores.

If you are of a mind to do this you will need to build a drill from a soft 
metal such as copper or aluminum.  The OD of the drill will be just a tad 
larger then the threaded portion of the  valve you are trying to install in 
the carboy.  The "drill" will have to be a centered tool that has a shank to 
fit your DRILLPRESS... I would NOT recommend a hand drill.  The drill 
portion can be a piece of copper tubing/pipe if one has the luck of having the 
proper size OD available.  You can slit the ends of the pipe slightly with a 
band saw or something similar to capture and feed grit to the cutting area.

I'm not a writer but I hope you get the picture of the drill... I don't know 
if it is appropriate to do an ascii drawing on this forum.  Anyone interested, 
I may be able to 'draw' a pic and send it under separate cover but you might 
have to have a friend who is a machinist build one for you.  Maybe you can go 
to a local junior college that has a machine shop class and ask the instuctor 
to have a student build one as a project.  I can provide a plan with a SASE or 
would build you one for a fee.. but cost might be prohibitive on a one by one 
basis... I doubt if there would be a market for many.

The idea now is to firmly  secure the bottle on it's side in the drillpress 
and locate the drill over the location of the place where you eant the hole.  
Surround that area with plasticine modeling clay and add a small amount of oil 
and some valve grinding compound available at an auto supply store.

Find something  to attach to the drill press handle that will overcome the 
spring return tension and attach that to the handle (or you can stand at the 
drill press and manually apply pressure)  Turn on the drill press and the 
drill begins abraiding its way thru the glass.. it doesn't cut as a spiral 
drill would.  You will need to lift the 'drill' from the spot every minute or 
so to allow a new slurry of grinding compound to flow down into the groove you 
are cutting.  Be careful not to get impatient and put too much pressure on the 
cut or you will break it out on the backside or worse, ruin the carboy..  
Remember this is like using sandpaper on wood vs a chisel or spiral drill... 
you are abraiding your way thru the glass.

Any further questions, I'll be glad to try to answer.  Good luck.

- --
Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street 
with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are beautiful.

Bill Splaine                           
Healdsburg, CA


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Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 15:44:54 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Re:Site glass,Sight glass,Pallets,palates,palettes and palaces 

>>*SIGHT* glass (because you see through it).
>>
>>Not *SITE* glass.  That would be a mug with "hbd.org" engraved on it.
>>
>>Thank you.

>And palate, not palette or pallet.  Arrrgh.  For years I've gritted my
>teeth on that one.

>Where can I get a site glass?

Jeff, go to the mall during the Christmas season.  They have these guys
that
engrave glasses and mugs and stuff using a sandblaster.  You could also
try "Things Remembered" or any other personal engraving company.  ;-)
Just tell 'em you want  "HBD.ORG" on the mug.

Sorry.  I couldn't help myself.

I looked through a few of my catalogs, nothing available in the beer
equipment
scene.  Maybe a glass supply house serving industrial chemical companies

OR maybe a worn out institutional coffee maker??????

By the way, here's one to grit your teeth on.  We have a company here
that buys and
sells used shipping flats.  The company's name is Buckingham Pallets.







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Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 16:03:29 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Re:Milk and gummed labels.

I would love to hear some suggestions for a more viscous, water-soluble
alternative to milk.  Being more viscous would avoid the problem
altogether.

Fred, I missed the beginning of you're conversation.  For years I used gummed
paper, not self stick labels,  for bottling.  That was before the advent of
"cheap"
computers.  We did a manual layout and took it to the printer for an offset
job.
Never had a bleed problem.  When I started using inkjets I had the same problem

that you are experiencing with bleed.

The application of the label helps.  Wet the bottle, not the label.  Put a
small
amount of dish soap in the dip so the water spreads across the bottle and
doesn't pool.  Move the label from the sides and don't try to rub it on.
Still get's a bit of bleed on some of the bottles.

Here's an idea I had.  I haven't tried it myself but I think it might work.
Print to gummed paper.  That's the water soluble kind.  Use a color inkjet.
Then use an artists fixative on the printed surface.   The fixative might
bleed through and fix the gum if you use too much, but it's worth a try.
Krylon Clear Coat has far too many solvents and will definately soak
all the way through the paper.  Some fixatives tend to stay more on
top of the paper.  I'm not sure of which ones, an artist I'm not.








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Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:56:25 EST
From: PVanslyke at aol.com
Subject: Brewery Hill Caramel Porter

Greetings,
	While I enjoy a great many beers from a variety of sources, I have come
across a brew that I would like to attempt a clone of.
	The brew in question is 'Caramel Porter' from Brewery Hill Brewing Company in
Wilkes - Barre, PA.
	Do any of you out there have more specific information other than what is
found on the bottle?

Paul VanSlyke >> enjoying a brew after a beautiful late fall day in Deposit,
NY


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Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 20:57:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Tim Anderson <timator at yahoo.com>
Subject: ReRe: Si(gh)te Glass

Jeff Renner said:
  In response to Spencer, who said:
  >> Not *SITE* glass.  That would be a mug with "hbd.org" engraved
  >> on it.
> Where can I get a site glass?

I'll buy one!  But please make it post@hbd.org (or maybe
prost at hbd.org).  All proceeds to keep hbd.org in business.  Make it
a lead-free pewter mug with a glass bottom and I'll pay a lot more
for it.

==
Please ignore the advertisement below.  Thank you.

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free  at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 05:16:14 +0000
From: William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Say What 2

J Pullum opines about Falstaff and Blatz in 1960s Omaha (hbd 2887).  My
recollection about 1960s beer drinking in Kansas City is that you started
with Bud or Schlitz and then, after taste burn-out, switched to less
expensive quarts of Grain Belt.  Seems like Grain Belt went very well with
KC BBQ ribs, especially at the Rosedale BBQ on Southwest Blvd (just a
customer).  Still can get the ribs but will have to settle on a 90s brew.

Speaking of old time lagers, I'm still trying to brew a version of Pabst
Blue Ribbon (50s style my father drank).  Thanks to Jeff Renner, Michel
Brown and others I've brewed up two versions of CAP.  One way too hoppy and
the second about right on the hops but sweeter than I remember.  My thoughts
are to lose some of the maize and replace it with some rice or sugar, to
make the flavor less intense.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.  The PBR I
remember was quite hoppy (Saaz I think) and not very sweet, although this
could be how a young beer drinker perceived the brew.

        Bill Frazier
        Briarpatch Brewing
        Johnson County, Kansas




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Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 08:36:49 -0500
From: "Thomas Kramer" <tkramer at monad.net>
Subject: Hennepin "farmhouse ale"

I just tried some Hennepin "farmhouse ale" brewed by Omme Gang from
Copperstown N.Y., they describe it as a pale hoppy crisp rustic beer. I
really like it and was wondering if anyone had heard of this style of
Belgian beer, and had a recipe for it.  Ommne Gang is a new brewery who
makes Belgian style beers in N.Y., the also make a Abbey style that I know
of.



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Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 08:47:33 -0500
From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net>
Subject: Cheap 240VAC GFI???

Ground fault checks for a variation between the incoming "hot" wire current and
the neutral out current.  They have to be equal.   If there is a difference
between the two it assumes a loss or leakage to ground that is not traveling
through the neutral wire,  i.e. your body and the plumbing fixtures.  The Delta
N, is the difference allowed, 10 ma, between the hot and the neutral current.
It will not sense a fault between the two hot wires.  This means you have 3
wires, two hot, 1 neutral coming from the GFI.  if you grab either hot wire and
short yourself to a ground, say a water pipe, it will interrupt the circuit.
If you grab both hot wires, 240VAC or if you grab one hot and the Neutral,
120VAC, tough luck, you're toast.  Since it disconnects by the delta N,  it is
not looking for overcurrent so of course it can't be used as a circuit breaker,
you have to use a circuit breaker for that one.

Note:  It is not immediately apparent by the data if the two hot wires are
being summed in some way and compared to the total neutral wire or if the load
has to be balanced.  I would assume the former but you know what they say about
assuming.  If it is relying on a closely balanced load and the device was
designed for a specific application, it is possible that it would be useless
for very many other apps.

>I recently found an item in a surplus catalog that looks like it could be a
>holy grail of sorts. A cheap 240VAC ground fault interrupt. Or is it???
>What follows is part of the description from the catalog:

>"Rated 120 VAC, 20 amps, 2400 watts. 240 VAC, 16 amps, 3840 watts. 50/60
>Hz. I Delta N = 10 mA. Intended for ground fault protection of electronic
>equipment Does not protect against contact between both circuit conductors
>or a fault in supply wiring.




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Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 08:59:56 -0500
From: "Stephen Jordan" <Carrotbay at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Brew room setup

I'm ready to set up a brew room which will be in the basement. It is a new
house and I had water lines, drainage pipes and a natural gas hookup
installed. My next step is up in the air! I am looking for any and all
suggestions. How do I handle the vapors? What's the best layout?
I want to get into all grain with possible ten gallon boils.

The long term plans for the basement area , a bar set up along with a pool
table.

I looking for help in layout,equipment and so on.

Thanks in advance

SRJ
Somewhere in the green mountains



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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 00:48:58 +0930
From: "Brad McMahon" <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Pronunciations continued

In HBD #2885 Guy Gregory asked:


>Now, is Saaz pronounced "Saws" (like handsaws) or "Saaz" (like Utah
>Jazz), or otherwise?  

Otherwise! I've not it heard pronounced either way.
In German the double a is pronounced like a long a in English,
as in car, far, and guitar. The s is pronounced as a z
so the the word sounds like: zarz. Most English speaking people
leave the S though, so Sars (as in -parilla) is the usual 
pronunciation. Sheesh, all because the Germans can't (won't) 
pronounce Zatec. BTW it sounds like ZHAH-tets.

Na Zdravi,

Brad.
A long way from Jeff Renner, unless he is holidaying in Adelaide, 
Australia.





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Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:54:19 -0500
From: Mark Tumarkin <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: A Mystery of Some Gravity

I need your help with a beer mystery of some gravity. While at the GABF
in October, I was very intruigued by a new style (at least for me) -
wheatwine. Several breweries had their interpretations, I was most
impressed by the one from Steelhead in Eugene, Oregon. Basically, a
wheatwine is much like a barleywine, only wheat. Duh! Anyhow, I decided
to try making one.

I had downloaded an evaluation copy of ProMash and used that to put
together my recipe. I did a 5 gallon, full boil, partial-mash batch. I
used the following extract and grain:

2 cans (3kg each or just over 13 lbs) Ireks liquid wheat extract
1 lb. malted wheat
4 lb. pale malt
LOTS OF HOPS (Centennial, Chinook, Hallertauer)
Wyeast 1056 (yeastcake from previous batch of Steam Beer)

The default efficiency is set at 85% in ProMash. At this efficiency the
program gave me an anticipated starting gravity of 1.122. I know this
efficiency would be low for the liquid malt extract (the bulk of my
batch) and possibly  high for the partial mash, but should be at least a
good approximation of SG. Certainly it would be a BIG beer, in line with
what I wanted. I did a full boil, cooled with my two-stage immersion
chiller and drained into my carboy. At this point the temp was approx.
80-85 degrees.

Here comes the mystery - I took a hydrometer reading for starting
gravity and got 1.074. I don't understand!!! Just from the liquid
extract alone I should have been way above this. I didn't adjust for
temperature, but at 80-85 degrees this difference would be small. I got
approx. 5 gal in the fermentor. I used leaf hops and there was certainly
some wort left trapped in this - but very little. My previous batch of
steam beer had SG readings of 1.041 and FG of 1.014. Pretty much what I
had expected.  I had gotten the FG reading the same day as I did the
batch of wheatwine, so that I could pitch onto the yeastcake. So it
isn't like something happened to the hydrometer in the interim. Also,
later I checked the hydrometer in tap water and it read 1.000, so my
hydrometer would seem to be ok.

I don't get it. If it had been a partial-boil batch I would say the wort
wasn't mixed fully - but it was full-boil.  The only other possiblity I
have thought of is that for some reason the malt extract was way low. Is
that possible, or what could cause this type of reading?Any suggestions
would be greatly appreciated. I am totally baffled.

At this point, the batch is happily fermenting away. I can't believe
that the gravity was really that low, but if it was - what have I
brewed? Certainly not a dopplebock - not with that amount of hops or
that yeast. Maybe an American Wheat PA?

Mark Tumarkin
Gainesville, FL





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Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 11:05:55 -0500
From: Mark Tumarkin <mark_t at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: site glass

Spencer, 6 miles est of here, wrote:

>*SIGHT* glass (because you see through it).
>
>Not *SITE* glass.  That would be a mug with "hbd.org" engraved on it.
>
>Thank you.

And Jeff wrote:

>And palate, not palette or pallet.  Arrrgh.  For years I've gritted my
>teeth on that one.

>Where can I get a site glass?

a dream of homebrewer's heaven -

many kegs of palate pleasing hoppy ale, made with a varied palette of
hops and all the HBD'rs gathered together with a pallet of site glasses
to toast to a Hoppy Holiday Season!



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Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:20:50 +0000
From: William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Victory HopDevil bitter-sweet

Rick Pauly posted about a bitter-sweet beer.  RickI've never had the
pleasure of a Hop Pocket or Hop Devil - not sure they are available in KC.
However, I've been seeking the same bitter-sweet flavor you describe for
about a year.  Something beyond Redhook ESB or Fullers ESB.  The recipe
given below gets close (actually better than either of the targets IMO) but
could still use a little burnt flavor to enhance the sweetness.  If you can
achieve that please let me know how.
							
Pale Malt		7.0 lbs					
Vienne Malt		3.0 lbs					
Munich Malt		1.0 lb					
Cara Vienne		0.5 lb					
Cara Munich		0.5 lb					
Roasted Barley		1 ounce					
							
I've mashed this recipe at 148 up to 158 single temperature infusions.  Also
have used a decoction in an attempt to release malt flavor.  Best results
to-date came from an infusion at 148F, followed in 20 minutes by a decoction
(30 minute boil), returned for a final rest at 152F.
				
Total boil time is 90 minutes							
60 minute hops...Goldings Leaf 5.1%...2.5 ounce					20 minute
hops...Goldings Leaf 5.2%...0.5 ounce		
 0 minute hops...Goldings Leaf 5.1%...1.0 ounce					
Force chill, aerate and settle							
							
Best fermentation has been with Wyeast 1028 Ale and 2206 Bavarian Lager.
Both taste the same but the lager version is smoother.
				
I've brewed this with OGs from 1044 to 1055.  The lower OG produces a
mellower beer that is more drinkable.  FG is usually around 1015.

Using Greg Noonan's calculation I get 55 IBUs for the 60 minute hops but the
beer is not overtly bitter.  In my experience the beer takes 2 to 3 months
to mellow out and be at it's best in bottles.  Again if anyone can suggest a
method to introduce a burnt flavor note to this beer I would appreciate it.

        Bill Frazier
        Briarpatch Brewing
        Johnson County, Kansas
						
							
							
							
							
							
							
							
							
							
							
							
							
							


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Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:19:53 EST
From: Cdma77 at aol.com
Subject: Phil's Phloating False Bottom


Does anyone have solution to a Phil's Phalse Bottom that floats in a
Rubbermaid Cooler ?  Back some ago I saw a post that said to screw down the
false bottom. I was thinking about doing that, however I am not sure that I
want to put holes in my cooler.  I would also think this might be a area for
bacteria to grow.  Any ideas, or is the screws ok ?

Jeff Grey


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Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:25:27 -0500
From: "Dana H. Edgell" <edgell at cari.net>
Subject: 240V service, I need a neutral


Dear HBD,

I have looked back over the GFCI/240vs120V lines thread of a couple of
months ago and I *think* I understand it. However this doesn't seem to help
my situation. Plus, as this is a safety issue, I don't feel too bad bringing
the thread up again.

I have recently moved into a condo and both my wife and I are very glad to
have all of my brewing stuff moved into a garage. Unfortunately, the housing
association feels that my brewing, using a propane burner, in my garage
doorway (as far out as parking lot traffic will allow) is a safety hazard. I
disagree as I am very careful but I can see their point. After all, they are
looking out for my investment also. As I was already gathering stuff to
convert my HLT to electricity, I just figured I could convert my kettle to
an electric boiler also. My water heater is located in the garage and the
home inspector who examined it before we bought the condo told me it used
120V/30A wiring.

The problem began when I actually examined the wiring the other day. Here is
what I found. The service into the electrical box consisted of an insulated
cable with three wires inside
1) bare copper: presumably ground
2) black wire: 119.9 V to ground
3) "white wire": covered with black tape to appear black 118.9 V to ground.

Wires 2&3 are 210V w.r.t. each other.

The circuit breakers are two 30 Amp circuit breakers from adjacent slots
"ganged together". 

It looks to me that the water heater is actually using 240V, with no neutral
conductor.

The question is, how do I split the 240V service into two 120V services that
I can connect to GFCIs without a neutral line?

I could use the ground as a neutral but is that safe? Wouldn't then the
return current from my 120V circuits (up to 30Amps) be electrically
connected to things such as appliance housings ? (The water heater is the
only thing on these circuit breakers).

And if I could use the ground for the return current, what would I use to
ground my HLT etc?

I should also note that there is also a plug in the garage on a different
circuit. It is 120V/15A and I have already placed a GFCI on it. I know I
coulkd use this but it doesn't the rating to drive two heater elements. With
only one heater element I would be confined to small barches, long heating
times and insipid boils.

Does anyone out there have any sugestions? Other than hiring an electrician
to rewire my garage, I will never have enough beer bullets to justify that
expense.

Thanks for any help I can get. I want to start brewing again!
Dana
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Dana Edgell                     edgell at cari.net
Edge Ale Brewery                http://www.quantum-net.com/edge_ale
San Diego                         home of the Water Treatment Workpage



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Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:25:35 -0500
From: "Dana H. Edgell" <edgell at cari.net>
Subject: Re: Heat Exchanger details

HBD,

About a month and a half ago, I posted a request for details about various
heat exchange systems (i.e. coil i.d., length, flow rate, etc.) in use out
there. Unfortunately the response was unspectacular. Other than, a reminder
from PBS that the term HERMS is trademarked by them, the only information I
got was from Chris (Cuckold at cornerpub.com) telling me what he planned to do
but hadn't actually built.

Chris planned to use 30-40 ft of 3/8" tubing (better heat transfer than
1/2"). Chris also noted the importance of a bypass valve to avoid over
heating. Chris also thought that horizonal coils would be better than
vertical coils to avoid trapped air. (I don't think this would be a problem
with a good flow rate, however, horizontal coils would be easier to drain
the liquid out of after cleaning, Ed.)

The following info I gained by webcrawling and search back HBDs

Ian Smith: 25ft of 3/8" coil. 1gal/min flow  through 152F water gives a wort
temp of 150-150.8F

Ronald LaBorde: 25ft of 5/8" coil "just thrown in the HLT"

Rick Calley: 25ft of 1/2" horizonatal coil atached with Swage-lok bulkhead
fittings

David Ludwig: 8 ft of 1/2" horizontal coil inside the MASH-TUN and not the
HLT. David pumps hot water through the MT and NOT hot wort through the HLT.
This requires a mixer in the MT to ensure an even temperature. David
recommends a short coil to "reduce drag on the circulating mash and to
reduce the heat soak-back following temperature boosts" 

Zymie & IGOR: 25ft of 1/2" vertical coil, the coil is wrapped  HLT at 170F

Personally, I have decided to go with a 25ft 3/8" horizontal coil because it
is easier to work with than 1/2" tubing and has a better heat-exchange
surface to volume ratio (Plus, then I can use the other half of a 50ft coil
for a counter-flow wort chiller). The only concern I have is about the
flow-rate with a smaller diameter, but Ian Smith got 1 gal/min which sounds
good enough to me.
 I already have Swagelock-bulkhead fittings to attach the coil to the keg
side. They were relatively inexpensive and shoud work great.

Dana Edgell

PS: anyone feeling guilty about not responding to my original post can feel
free to respond to my new post above :)
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Dana Edgell                     edgell at cari.net
Edge Ale Brewery                http://www.quantum-net.com/edge_ale
San Diego                         home of the Water Treatment Workpage



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Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:25:04 -0600
From: "DARMARHAD" <darmarhad at email.msn.com>
Subject: Soehnle digital scales

Jim Grady posted on hbd Nov. 5 that he had found a digital scale in
Londonderry, NH.
I reside down here in West Texas, And have been trying to find a Soehnle
8035 Gala digital scale. I have tried all local stores and tried on the
internet.  I would appreciate any help at all.
Darrell Haddock, (tired of surfing)  Darmarhad at msn.com





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Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:03:01 EST
From: Davemundo at aol.com
Subject: High-gravity flat beer

Hey gang!

I bottled my Xmas Ale over a month ago, just tried a bottle and it's flat as
ever.  What can I do NOW to carbonate my bottles?

It's a pretty high-gravity beer (SG 1.070), but I thought the bottles would
be carbonated by now.

Solutions I've considered are:

1) Waiting.
2) Adding some corn sugar to each bottle (dissolved in water first?)
3) Adding more yeast (how much?)
4) Adding corn sugar AND adding more yeast (this frightens me)

Any help?

Thanks -
Dave
davemundo at aol.com


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Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:30:04 -0800
From: j miller <cblues at canada.com>
Subject: beginner stuff

Hi Folks...

Let me preface by saying I am a complete rookie..though eager to learn.

So far  i have  made one batch of Bock with a kit, and after perusing
the internet for hours decided to ignore the simplified instructions and
go with a more detailed beer brewing procedure...Boil wort/rapid cool/
ferment/sec ferment /bottle etc..to our delight and amazement the final
result was pretty damn good.

At any rate, I am now preparing to brew a brown ale (malt extract from
Ireland). As this is an ale and not a lager, different processes are
required.

After looking through the files I have saved from the internet, I notice
a great many discrepencies in damn near everything . I realize as in any
human endeavor there are many different ways to do things, ending in a
similar result, but i'm getting confused at this point.

My question to you folks: is there a site on the net where they have
basic (well not too basic) instructions for an ale, that are tried and
true?? perhaps I have it already, but which one is it??

As I have developed a fairly sophisticated palate, I don't want to brew
any insipid crap if possible.( Maybe my wife will drink it...haha)

Thanks for any assistance in this paltry matter.

- --
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
        Jim Miller
    British Columbia
          Canada
               *
      Radio Station
          VE7JM

  ..._  .  _ _...  ._ _ _   _ _




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Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:47:42 -0600
From: Louis Bonham <lkbonham at phoenix.net>
Subject: MCAB Entry Packets

Hi folks:

Entry packets to MCAB qualifiers have been sent by e-mail to all folks whose
e-mail addresses were reported to me.  (Hard copy to follow by snail mail.)  If
you've qualified for the MCAB and haven't gotten an e-mail from me (I've gotten
lots of bounces), drop me a note and we'll fix you up.  If you know anyone who's
qualified for the MCAB, do pass the word that the entry packets are out -- we
want to make sure that everyone knows.

Even if you didn't qualify this year, do consider coming to the MCAB in
Houston.  It'll be a great beer weekend, with lots of technical conferences, a
sensory evaluation seminar, exhibits by amateur and craft brewer suppliers, and
of course lots of Foam Ranger fun and warm Texas hospitality.  And a great price
too -- free.  OK, you gotta pay for transportation, lodging (MCAB rate of
$59/night at the conference hotel), and your food and drink, but we're not gonna
gig you to listen to Goerge Fix, Paul Farnsworth, Dave Miller, and other
notables, or to hand out and party with lots of the biggest beer geeks in North
America.  C'mon, come to Houston in February (typical daily temp of 60F), have
some fun, and learn a little bit more about brewing.  (Feel free to write me for
details, especially if you're a supplier or vendor who'd like to exhibit or
otherwise support the MCAB.)

PS -- The list of Qualifying Styles and Qualifying Events for MCAB II will be
announced shortly.

Louis K. Bonham
MCAB Organizer



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Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 23:24:21 EST
From: Redholling at aol.com
Subject: I think I can...I think I can...

Brewrus (that would be brewing gurus),
  I apalogize for bothering the masses again with my cider with preservatives
= crappy fermentation problem again, but while my local brew shops are very
curtious in their attempts to help me I find they know two things about making
cider; jack and sh*#. To bring you up-to-date: I'm making a cider with 4
gallons of apple cider (w/ potassium sorbate, sodium benzoate and malic acid),
4 lbs of brown sugar boiled in 1.5 G water, and 1 pk wine yeast. O.G.=1.052.
After 4 days of no airlock action I repitched same brand wine yeast. For next
7 days I got airlock bubbles anywhere from once a minute to once per 20
seconds. So after 11 days total in primary I racked over to secondary on top
of another wine yeast pack boiled in a cup of water (as nutrient). The gravity
was still 1.052!?!  Now after 4 days I see nothing (and the S.G is still
1.052...the hydrometer works fine at 60 deg)! I understand that the
preservatives are holding up fermentation, but is it killing it? Apparently
not much is happening. Before I have to think about just ditching it and
getting on with my life (:^( I wanted to see if any of you could help me with
any ideas. I worry..it's been over 2 weeks now since I put this batch together
(where's the confidence in my sanitation?). Thanks!

Red (pronounced pretty much as it looks, rhymes with head)  


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Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 21:03:11 -0800
From: "shilo" <renielsen at jps.net>
Subject: Fw: ABG, lack of recipes

>From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
>Subject: crystal vs. caramel/ABG classes
>Dave is right that crystal and caramel are (in modern terms) equivalent. He
incorrectly blames
>Briggs for this, however. Wrong Brit, Dave.  The blame should go squarely
on Young and Dr. MichaelLewis, who wrote this >misinformation in their book.
Let's all not forget that this *is* the same Dr. Michael Lewis who heads the
American
>Brewers' Guild (despite what it says below).

Al,
Took a homebrew course a while back from ABG. I don't believe Dr. Lewis was
part of the program any more. This might be worth double checking.

Gosh, I stopped looking at HBD after the "Schmidling incidents" years back.
Remember that?

Remember when there were recipes posted all the time in HBD, sometimes 4 and
5 in the same Digest? Heck, those were the basis for the first Cat's Meow!

Came across Jack's home page a few days ago. He's still going strong...

RobertN
Shingle Springs, Ca
renielsen at jps.net



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