HOMEBREW Digest #2901 Tue 15 December 1998

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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  HELP-low attentuation (Timo Peters)
  Re: Homebrew kegging? (Jeff Renner)
  Re: filling bottles from kegs (Jeff Renner)
  filling bottles from kegs (Rod Prather)
  Potato Beers ("John W. Rhymes")
  AlK's Book / Counter-Pressure Bottler (Ken Schwartz)
  AHA not HBD (AlannnnT)
  Moldy malting rye (Tom Herlache)
  first wort hopping (again?!) (Breadnale)
  re: filling bottles from kegs (Tim Anderson)
  filling bottles from kegs (Rod Prather)
  Smoke Peated v.s. Smoked (was liquid smoke) (Rod Prather)
  Michael Jackson and Conan O'Brian (johnsosm)
  Sanatizing (Indian118)
  books and such (Dave Sapsis)
  Chill haze - what's the deal (James_E_Pearce)
  Thanks from a newbie ("Darren Robey")
  Re: Al K's Book ("Bill Splaine")
  1998 Homebrewing Book of the Year (Kyle Druey)
  Protein Rest Review (Kyle Druey)
  Re: Off-tastes from Goldings ("Chris Pittock")
  Acronyms?  Is there a FAQ somewhere. (Rod Prather)
  Paul's Epistle ("Scotty, Richard")
  Paul Gatza's fable (Steve Jackson)
  Re: Off topic question regarding lead.... (Jeff Renner)
  CAP & Bavarian yeast (John Varady)
  Blackened Voodoo ("Mercer, David")
  The German 'R' correction ("Alan McKay")
  air/oxygen/pure oxygen (Kim Peterson)
  Malting Rye and Oats ("Robert D. Dittmar")
  Re:  Fries (Danny Breidenbach)
  Roller mill/Bad Beer/Cider (Eric.Fouch)
  stolen recipes ("Robert C. McDonald")
  AHA and L'il Apple (pbabcock)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 19:19:57 +0100 From: Timo Peters <tpeters at zfn.uni-bremen.de> Subject: HELP-low attentuation hello brewers!! I have problems with my apparent attentuation. whether I brew a lager or an ale all my beers suffer from low apparent attentuation. For a pils it is about 66% (12 deg B start, 4 deg B end) and a current old ale stops fermentation with only 54%. this high remaining extract leads to a sweet beer, uncommon for the desired style. for the pils I would expect at least 73% apparent attentuation. after mashing I controll starch conversion with jodine, it is okay! I would like to discuss the following mistakes, other possibilties are welcome: - underpitching!! I propagate my yeast from permanent cultures. first I use slants to re-stimulate them, then pitch in a 2 liter flask and wait for the peak of fermentation, pitch the wort. I do not shake the culture very often to dissolve some oxygen to increase yeast count - not enough oxygen prior to fermentation. after pitching I shake my fermentation vessel very vigorously to dissolve oxygen. that is all, no sterile air or pure oxygen from a pressure bottle. - not enough stirring during mashing process could be responsible for decreasing amylase (beta!!) activity due to high temperatures on the bottom that destroys the enzyme. this leads to high unfermentable dextrine levels resulting in an early fermentation stop. the first an the second mistake describe fermentation problems, both causing low active yeast levels. on my next batch I will try the usage of pressurized oxygen. for the last mistake it would be useful to stirr the mash more constantly than I do. on the other hand I could replace my infusion procedure by decoction. what do you think about it?? greetings from germany timo Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 14:21:29 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Homebrew kegging? Brian Morgan <bkm_42 at yahoo.com> worries that artificial carbonation is sacrilige but wonders how to do it anyway: Not sacrilige at all. I've been doing it for at least 15 years, and it's discussed regularly on HBD. I'd say it might even be the preferred method since you get far less sediment. I generally will secondary the beer in a carboy or extra keg and then rack the entirely sediment-free beer into the serving keg. To carbonate it you can either hook it up to serving pressure appropriate for your style and temperature and wait, or to high pressure and wait less time. Or shake it under high pressure and wait even less time. I've carbonated kegs in a less than an hour this way. As a matter of fact, I'll be brewing a dark oat malt winter warmer/porter Monday for a Christmas Eve party that I'll probably be kegging 12/24 afternoon, just to give it maximum clearing time (the oat malt just arrived or I'd have started earlier). You can check the archives for past discussions on people's preferred methods. Some people have even built stands or rockers for shaking. If I'm carbonating a corny, I will roll it back and forth on the floor or sit down and lay it across my knees and rock it back and forth. For a Sankey keg, I'll either roll it on its side or shake it on the rim. Either way, I'll start at maybe 30 psi, then every once in a while reduce the pressure to listen how the gas flows at lower pressure. If it doesn't flow very fast, I know I'm getting there, so I reduce the pressure to 20, then 10, or whatever I consider my ultimate target. If it doesn't flow at all, I know that I've overshot. I try not to do this because it is a pain to reduce carbonation. You mentioned "commercial kegs." If by this you mean Sankeys, let me know if you want me to send you instructions on removing and reinstalling the valve. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 14:37:02 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: filling bottles from kegs "Darren Robey"<Darren.Robey at nre.vic.gov.au> wants to fill bottles for parties without a CPBF. Just get a length of plastic hose, like racking hose, that's big enough diameter to stretch over the spout of the beer "gun" as you call it or small enough to fit into the spout, and long enough to reach the bottom of your bottles. Then fill with the hose right to the bottom of the bottle and cap. A cheap, "poor man's bottle filler" can be from a one hole rubber stopper and a racking cane section that reaches to the bottom of the bottle. Attach the racking cane length via a short section of hose to the spout as before and run the cane through the stopper. To fill, put the stopper in the neck of the bottle and open the tap. Beer wil flow until the pressure in the bottle is equal to the gas pressure. This helps reduce foaming, Then slightly break the seal of the stopper in the bottle with your thumb to bleed out some pressure, which allows the beer to flow slowly. It takes practice, but people have reported success. Some hints - to minimize foam (although a little is good so you can cap on foam and minimize air space), I put the bottles in the freezer first so the beer doesn't foam up as much. This also works better with very cold beer. You'll lose some carbonation, so you may want to slightly overcarbonate the beer so the bottled beer is appropriately carbonated. Use big bottles so you don't have to fill so many. Beer bottled like this will likely suffer from oxidation if it is kept too long, but it certainly works for parties. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:22:44 -0500 From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> Subject: filling bottles from kegs >but I was after any advice for filling with my normal beer gun. I saw a little doodad last week, don't remember the name. If you don't mind 2 liter bottles. This little cap goes on the top of the bottle and allows you to hook up a ball lock CO2 connector. You can carbonate right in the 2 liter with 13 psi. The shop owner raved about it. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 16:47:09 +0000 From: "John W. Rhymes" <jwrhymes at mindspring.com> Subject: Potato Beers If you've considered making a beer with potatoes, now is the time. The Heart of Dixie Brew-Off will be held on March 13, 1999, with Potato Beers as our special category in honor of St. Patrick's Day. Last year's winners were a Sweet Potato Stout, Slavic Taterbrau (Baderbrau clone), and Kolsch de Terre, all of which scored 36 or higher. Be creative -- the only restriction is that 20% of the fermentables must come from potatoes. Details about the competition are available at our web site at http://www.bham.net/brew/brew-off-1999.html. Entries must be received by March 6, 1999. John W. Rhymes -- Birmingham, Alabama jwrhymes at mindspring.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 16:01:11 -0700 From: Ken Schwartz <kenbob at elp.rr.com> Subject: AlK's Book / Counter-Pressure Bottler Brander wrote (about Al Korzonas' "Homebrewing Vol I"): "I have another suggestion though. The book is not really sold in stores, and it should be. Why don't we all (those of us who like it, and want to support a good book, and a good author) go down to our suppliers/home brew shops/grain temple and tell them about it and encourage them to stock it." In addition to asking them to carry it on the shelf, consider this suggestion too. Our HB store (Brew It Yourself) made it their standard "kit" book, instead of Charlie's venerable but outdated tome. Costs a couple bucks more (isn't NCJHB about $10?) but definitely worth it. Would get beginners off to a more "up-to-date" start. Speaking of beginners, Darren Robey (welcome Darren!) asks: "I've been kegging for a little while now, but still like to fill some bottles for taking with me when I don't want to cart a keg around. Now I haven't got a CPBF at all, but I was after any advice for filling with my normal beer gun." Best cheap-ass filler is to stuff a length of 3/8" OD vinyl tubing into the beer tap and stick a #2 drilled rubber stopper (beer-bottle size) over the tubing up near the tap. Press the stopper into the bottle (adjust the tubing to just reach the bottom of the bottle) and let'er rip. The bottle will fill maybe 1/3 full, then the beer will stop flowing as the pressure in the sealed bottle increases and equalizes the keg. Then carefully "burp" the stopper; the release of pressure will allow beer to flow from the keg. Hone your burping technique so the beer flows slowly and evenly (sorry, that sounds gross). When the bottle is **close the tap**, then remove the filler and cap the bottle. Failure to close the tap first will result in much beer on your shoes. And if you DO decide a CPBF is what you want, check my web page (see below) for a cheap but highly effective home-made CPBF. You might have most or even all the parts laying around already! - -- ***** Ken Schwartz El Paso, TX kenbob at elp.rr.com http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 19:28:38 EST From: AlannnnT at aol.com Subject: AHA not HBD I made a typo, I wrote; > About Charlie and the HBD. Don't you think that they (the HBD) could put > some homebrewing information on the page? Anyone out there have any pull > with them? They should have a how to brew page, shouldn't they? Pat replied- If you're suggesting we (the HBD) put information on the AHA site, um, no. We have plenty enough to maintain on our own without adding any of the AHA woes to it. No Pat. I'm sorry, I meant to say the AHA should have homebrewing information on their website. At least to give the impression of trying to promote the hobby with service to it's members. I typed HBD instead because I am a parent and I've inherited insanity from my children. Alan Talman Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 20:23:00 -0500 (EST) From: Tom Herlache <th22 at cornell.edu> Subject: Moldy malting rye Alan posted, with regard to malting rye: >All this talk about homemalting makes me want to point this out. Malting rye >at home can be dangerous. I have checked this out in a few published sources >and they all say the same. There is a toxic spore you can grow on rye, and >it's allegedly very toxic. I hate to be so vague here. I'll try to field this one, since it's plant pathology related. The likely culprit is Claviceps purpurea, the causal organism of ergot. This fungus produces lots of biologically-active alkaloids with a wide range of effects on humans and other animals. These include symptoms such as hallucinations and psycotic symptoms, smooth-muscle contractions and convulsions, and gangrene from circulatory damage. Some of the alkaloids have medicinal uses, for example, in treating migraines. While rye is the most common host, this fungus also can infect wheat, triticale, wild grasses and even our beloved barley. All commercially sold small grains (wheat, rye, etc.) are screened for the presence of ergot alkaloids, so I think the risk when malting any grain is pretty low. Grain that fails the test is sold at a discount--I have no idea for what use. I'd suggest simply buying milling-quality grain for malting. If you're really paranoid (hmm, ergotism?) you could rinse your grain with bromates, which many maltsters do to limit microbial growth. This has the added benefit of extracting tannins (I think) from the husks. Also, the growing fungus produces relatively little of the toxic alkaloids, most of them are produced when the fungus elaborates its resting stage (called sclerotia). These are readily visible, as they basically consume a whole grain when forming. The sclerotia are horn-shaped, and are purple-black in color. Sclerotia can also be separated from the grain by a brine-flotation technique. My reference, unfortunately, doesn't specify the specific gravity of the brine. Tom Herlache th22 at cornell.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 21:40:38 EST From: Breadnale at aol.com Subject: first wort hopping (again?!) Hey everyone, I'm a little confused on first wort hopping. I'd like to try it out, but obviously want to do it right. Am I correct to understand that you are essentially adding all flavor and aroma hops as you drain sparge? Does this then mean that bittering additions are at the same time as normal (60 min. boil)? It seems like everyone is getting favorable results using this technique. Thanks in advance, Jim, my beers are better since I started open fermenting, Williams Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 20:56:14 -0800 (PST) From: Tim Anderson <timator at yahoo.com> Subject: re: filling bottles from kegs "Darren Robey"<Darren.Robey at nre.vic.gov.au> spake in this wise: >>> I know such newbie questions can get a little bornig, but any advice would be helpful. I've been kegging for a little while now, but still like to fill some bottles for taking with me when I don't want to cart a keg around. Now I haven't got a CPBF at all, but I was after any advice for filling withmy normal beer gun. Any advice Very much appreciated! Darren Robey <<< I don't have one either, and also don't like to lug kegs. I'm also lazy (as any good engineer should be) and try to keep things simple. What works for me is to lower the CO2 pressure to just barely enough to push the beer, and let each bottle sloooooooowly fill. I still get a bit more foam than I'd like, so I set it aside while I fill the others, then come back around to each one and top them off in turn. Often, it seems like this could go on awhile, so I make sure no one is looking and suck out enough foam to finish filling and then cap "on the foam". Easy, low tech, and since it's usually beer meant to be to be consumed a short time later, there's no point in worrying about oxidation. Beasties from my lips are another matter, but nobody knows they caught it from me, so who cares? By the way, I think _Capping on the Foam_ is a great title for a heartwarming novel about a struggling young homebrewer who goes from just trying to make cheap alcohol in his college apartment, to building a craft beer empire, only to be put out of business by an evil megabrewer. Of course it would need a happy ending, because people like happy endings. I like happy endings. tim == Please ignore the advertisement below. Thank you. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:22:44 -0500 From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> Subject: filling bottles from kegs >but I was after any advice for filling with my normal beer gun. I saw a little doodad last week, don't remember the name. If you don't mind 2 liter bottles. This little cap goes on the top of the bottle and allows you to hook up a ball lock CO2 connector. You can carbonate right in the 2 liter with 13 psi. The shop owner raved about it. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:24:06 -0500 From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> Subject: Smoke Peated v.s. Smoked (was liquid smoke) If you want a smoked brew, I would use smoked malt, about 1/2 to 1 lb. This is not to be confused with smoked peated malt, I have never used it, but have heard many horror stories about it. So what is the difference. I thought the smoked peated malt was used in Scotch Ale. I have also heard that anything over 3% to 5% will definately mess up your brew. Being a Scotch lover, I have particular fancy for a true smoky scotch ale. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 10:18:45 -0600 From: johnsosm <stephen.johnson at vanderbilt.edu> Subject: Michael Jackson and Conan O'Brian Alan T. of New York in HBD#2899 comments on being priviledged to be one of the few people on the planet to have sampled the two beers that Michael Jackson mentioned on the Late Nite show Wednesday, Dec. 9. Well, Alan, sorry to disappoint you, but if you'll rewind your VCR, you will notice that the FIRST beer mentioned is Boscos Flaming Stone Beer, brewed right here in Nashville, TN, by Chuck Skypeck, and in their Memphis area brewpub in Germantown, TN, home of Tennessee's first brewpub. I don't know if you've had a chance to sample this wonderful beer made with hot rocks in the kettle, but it is delightful example of the style and gets good reviews in several of MJ's books. Michael was here in town to promote his book at Boscos and we had the pleasure of talking with him about his appearance on the show. Despite what some people may think, he was not upset by the tone with which Conan addressed him. He did not feel ambushed. Rather, he mentioned that he knew how tongue-in-cheek Conan can be and approached the whole event as if it were some sort of boxing match, and managed to get a few jabs in here and there to let Conan know that he was ready to go a few rounds with him! Steve Johnson, President Music City Brewers Nashville, TN Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 13:36:27 EST From: Indian118 at aol.com Subject: Sanatizing Hello all, As I was sanitizing equipment to rack my beer, my roommate came in and looked at my B Brite container. Being a Ph.D. chemistry candidate, he always looks at the ingredient. He noticed that the active ingredients in B Brite are the same as those found in common bleach powder. So I was wondering, has anyone tried bleach powder? How does it work? It could be a much lower cost alternative. Thanks for the info, Drew Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 12:28:14 -0800 From: Dave Sapsis <DAVE_SAPSIS at fire.ca.gov> Subject: books and such As there has recently been a wee bit a mud tossed toward Michael Lewis, and not seeing it elsewhere suggested, might I recommend his book STOUT, the 10th in the style series from Brewers Publ. First off, Dr Lewis is a Welshman, not a "Brit", a distinction that would likely be honorably adhered to if it was you. Second, while there is certainly reason to question some of Dr. Lewis', written works, and even more some of the wild things he says, he is a *very* funny man. Third, the notion that brewers trained under him at Davis only make boring beer is nonsense. Fourth, the stout book is excellent. And while significant contributions were done by associates, I think is the best package yet offered in the series. Chapter 4 on Tasting is alone worth the price of admission. And frankly, I cannot envision a better way to assess what stout is than they way he does it in the Appendix. Just my 'pinyuns here folks. Cheers, - --dave, basking in methane Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:28:02 +1000 From: James_E_Pearce at nag.national.com.au Subject: Chill haze - what's the deal I don't understand all the fuss about chill haze ... doesn't it only appear when (some) beer is chilled _below_ the proper serving temperature? James Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:43:53 +1000 From: "Darren Robey"<Darren.Robey at nre.vic.gov.au> Subject: Thanks from a newbie Thanks to all those who gave wonderful informative answers to my questions abotu filling bottles from a keg. The brew is in the secondry so I'll give it a go soon. Darren Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 20:20:19 -0800 From: "Bill Splaine" <bsplaine at sonic.net> Subject: Re: Al K's Book Badger wrote: >I have another suggestion though. The book is not really sold in stores, >and it should be. Why don't we all (those of us who like it, and want to >support a good book, and a good author) go down to our suppliers/home brew >shops/grain temple and tell them about it and encourage them to stock it. >Spread the word... I found it much more informative, and useful than >Papazian's book (although he does deserve some respect for his work) and >recomend it to my freinds. I don't know where you shop Badger... but it has been in the two supply shops I use. I agree that Vol 2 can't be quick enough... Bill - -- Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are beautiful. Bill Splaine Healdsburg, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:51:55 -0800 From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net> Subject: 1998 Homebrewing Book of the Year What do you all think is the best homebrewing book to come out in 1998? In 1996 there was Designing Great Beers by Daniels, in 1997 I think it was a tie between AlK's Homebrewing Volume I and Fix's an Analysis of Brewing Techniques. What book from 1998 is the most worthy addition to the homebrewing library? Kyle Bakersfield, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:04:25 -0800 From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net> Subject: Protein Rest Review Here is a recommendation for when a protein rest is required (malted barley only): No protein rest needed. Bite some kernels, if they crumble and are not chewy or steely tipped, then probably no p-rest is needed (Kolbach >= 40). Many agree that most modern malts fall into this category. Rest for 30' at 131 F if the kernel is hard (try biting some crystal malt) or has steely tips (Kolbach < 35). This will chop up large proteins into medium proteins to help clear chill haze, then chop some of the medium proteins into small proteins for yeast nutrients. Probably only home made malt and horse feed would fall into this category. All other malts, 20' at 135 F. Bite the kernel, if does not crumble and is not hard then you are in this gray area (35 <= Kolbach < 40). To get an idea at how this kernel would feel when you bite it just take a bite of an uncooked spaghetti noodle (I am looking for a better analogy here). Some suggest that some german pils malts fall into this category. Please post comments... Kyle Bakersfield, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:47:50 +1000 From: "Chris Pittock"<Chris.Pittock at nre.vic.gov.au> Subject: Re: Off-tastes from Goldings Hi All! An attempted short summary of replies to my post in HBD 2897. I WROTE: > A quick query re: Goldings hops: Has anyone had phenolic/lactic tastes in their beers from a single late-hopping addition of Goldings? [snip!] Theory: Have I extracted such a narrow fraction of the hop taste/aroma that it's "out of context"? Am I better off with smaller additions at -10 min, -5 min and 0 min, with some dry hops as well? The two batches have the following in common: the dry yeast used, the Goldings late hopping, no real effort made in chlorine reduction (see below), and the brewer ;-) In brief I got the following answers: "yes", "maybe" and "no - don't" to the Q's posed above. Suggested causes below: INFECTION...? Jeff Renner (nerenner at umich.edu) suggests wild yeast/bacterial infection. I'd like to think that *I* don't have an infection problem... that's what *other* brewers (who aren't as fastidious and *I* am about sanitation) have problems with... ;-) But seriously... it's a real possibility. CHLORINE...? John Penn (HBD 2899; John.Penn at jhuapl.edu) mentions chlorine as possible cause... I live in a country area where they make up for the lack of high-tech water processing by using more chlorine. The potential for chlorine being a problem is high - although I'd expect the more medicinal tastes of chlorophenolics rather than just phenolic tastes... and to have had probs with all other batches. Of course, eliminating chlorine will help overall quality anyway. I'd prefer not to pre-boil (I currently heat the req'd 70 litres of water to 80 deg C on brew day for mash in and mash out - any good?). QUESTION: Which type of filter/s can help drive off chlorine and give a reasonably fast flow rate? HOPS...? Another HBD'er (Ian Smith - isrs at cmed.com) says he's had some prob's with late hopping giving tannic/metallic tastes which dissipate with ageing. I have the opportunity to test this one... Also,Steve (paddockwood at sk.sympatico.ca) reckons: "While I have never had lactic notes from EKG, I think phenolic or grassy notes may well happen. Our club just sampled what happens with too much late adding of EKG in particular". Steve then echoes George Fix (recently) and De Clerck (1957) by saying that "all late additions are at best useless and at worst bad". Does this mean kettle hops only or dry hops too!? My next batch, an all-grain IPA, is going to secondary today ( no Goldings and no late additions, although I plan some dry hopping). If general sanitation is the problem - then I should get the same problem (as I will if chlorine is the problem). I used WYeast American Ale II. My science training is shining through... I changed at least three variables... then again I may have at least three problems! Thanks to those (mentioned above) who replied to my post! Finally I give Jeff the last word (regarding my cool ferment at 20-24 deg C: "That would be 68-75F, which we here in the cooler climes call a warm ferment!". Agreed, but I call it cool where it's 42 deg C in the shade and no air con... (plus my beer fridge has ***food*** in it...) Chris Pittock (Don't send Xmas cards, send our Janitors a HBD Server donation!) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:17:21 -0500 From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> Subject: Acronyms? Is there a FAQ somewhere. Does anyone have a FAQ on this echo and acronyms used with their meanings. I know most of them are common beer acro's. Although I have understood a lot of the basic chemistry for brewing for years, I am not that savvy to the hobby and would like to be able to understand some of the discussions here a bit better. Examples: CAP, FWH, AOB, AIK, NHC, BJCP (Beer Judge Certification Program got that one), GABF, BOS, AIK, HMWP, MMWP, LMWP and others. Definitions for terms like yeast attenuation, protein rest and some of the more commonly used concepts would also be nice for those of us who haven't read half a dozen books and just want to get started. Or in my case, restarted. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:23:06 -0700 From: "Scotty, Richard" <rscotty at uswest.com> Subject: Paul's Epistle Paul Gatza posts an account of the AHA that is much too lengthy to quote here. Its a wonderful story - I wonder if he has anything in the Non-Fiction category? Richard Scotty Chief Mash Mixer The Crapshoot Brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 06:44:29 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Jackson <stevejackson at rocketmail.com> Subject: Paul Gatza's fable I wanted to express my appreciation to Paul Gatza for his entertaining little fable on the past, present and future of the AHA. I think he correctly recognized some of the problems with the organization and the current hurdles that stand in the way of curing what ails the AHA. The sort of responsiveness and understanding expressed by Paul here is the first and most important step toward making the AHA relevant again. But there is a bigger challenge the organization faces, and one that I have yet to see an answer for (to be fair, I have no idea what the solution to the following problem is myself). Despite all that is listed in the promotional materials, charter, etc., the benefits of AHA membership for 95 percent of the homebrewers begins and ends with a magazine. If you like Zymurgy, than the membership is worth it. If you find Zymurgy to be a waste of time, as I and many other homebrewers do, than there really is no incentive to drop $30-$35 (or whatever membership -- read subscription -- fees are these days). I'm not going to use this space to ask for changes to the magazine. I know firsthand how difficult and time-consuming it is to completely overhaul a publication's editorial focus. Suffice it to say, there are other magazines out there that meet my needs. The biggest challenge the AHA is going to face is providing something else to make the cost of a membership worthwhile. Very few people are going to the GABF, so the members-only tasting and reduced admission fee perks don't mean anything to most of us. Ditto for legalization efforts, since most of us live in states where our hobby is legal. That leaves most of us with the choice of whether the magazine is worth it or not. More and more of us are choosing the second option. As I said, I really don't have a suggestion for what that "something else" is. All I know is, until that something else is found to add value to an AHA membership, I'll be spending my money on a magazine that better suits my needs instead of a Zymurgy subscription disguised as an AHA membership. I suspect many, many others will be as well. -Steve in Indianapolis _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:11:21 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Off topic question regarding lead.... "Dawn Watkins" <Dawn.Watkins at mci.com> asks: >Does anyone know if leaded crystal is safe to use? There was a good bit of publicity a few years ago of results of good research that showed that wine picked up toxic amounts of lead when stored for some time in lead crystal. I'm sure it is at least in part pH dependent, so the pH of your cordial may play a part. I use my crystal decanter for serving port or sherry, then return them to the bottle. Usually. Sometimes I get lazy. Since children are most at risk of lead poisoning, I would recommend not serving children alcoholic beverages that have been kept in lead crystal. ;-) Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:32:35 -0500 (EST) From: John Varady <rust1d at usa.net> Subject: CAP & Bavarian yeast I hopped on the CAP bandwagon this weekend and made one, so I was pleased to read G. Fix's post about using American 2 row and FWH'ing with noble (abiet American) hops. While researching which yeast I should use, I read in Dr. Fix's book, AoBT, that in the earlier part of this century, brewers in the Midwest used the Bavarian lager strain extensively. This makes me wonder about its place in history in the brewing of CAP's. Would a pre-pro pilsner have used this yeast? Here is my recipe, which I am calling "Flapper's Delight" with a nod towards the wild women of the 20's and what would have probably been a style they would be drinking during a Jazz laden lavish night on the town (and with a slight nod towards the Sugar Hill Gang; hip-hop-hibby-hibby-hop). Name: Flapper's Delight O.G.: 1.055 Style: Classic American Pilsner I.B.U.: 36.7 Volume: 14.5 Gallons A.B.V.: 5.4% Grains/Fermentables Lbs Hops AAU Grams Min Pale, American 2 Row 21.00 Saaz 3.5 85.00 120 Corn, Flaked 5.00 Tettnanger 4.5 85.00 120 Saaz 3.5 30.00 10 Saaz 3.5 30.00 0 Yeast: Bavarian Lager Misc. Ingredients Amt Units Breakbrite 1.00 Teaspoon Mash in at 140F for 15 mins, boost to 158F over 15 mins, rest in the high 150's for 60 mins. Batch sparge to collect 16.5 gallons, boil down to 14.5 and chill. Happy Holiday's John - -- John Varady The HomeBrew Recipe Calculating Program rust1d at usa.net http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady Glenside, PA Boneyard Brewing -------- UnReal Ale(R) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:10:13 -0800 From: "Mercer, David" <dmercer at path.org> Subject: Blackened Voodoo In response to John's opinion that Blackened Voodoo was "possibly the worst beer I've ever had", Jeff Renner asked, "Was this a fresh sample and you just don't like the rendition or was it in bad condition?" Actually, it could have been sample variability. I lived in the New Orleans area for 20 years - until the early 90's - (Blackened Voodoo came out during the last part of that) and during that time there were two things that marked Dixie beers. One was they were EXTREMELY variable. I am not just referring to a notorious bad batch that hit the market sometime in the early-mid 80's and almost led to the brewery's collapse. Simple batch to batch variability for their main lager was striking throughout the 80's even to my relatively inexperience palate (correct spelling?). The other thing about Dixie was they changed their brewers (and I believe owners - although Jeff's post contradicts this) with revolving door frequency. The end result was you never knew what to expect when you opened a bottle of Dixie. FWIW, I liked the main lager (usually)although that may have been influenced by the context in which I usually drank it (sweating to Rockin Dopsie at the Maple Leaf, or scarfing down piles of boiled crawfish and fried catfish at Jack Dempsey's in the 9th Ward.) Blackened Voodoo was not very distinctive, IMO, so I rarely drank it. The "Light Amber" was surprisingly malty and flavorful for a "light" beer, and I often drank it, too. Of course, it's been more than six years since I've had a Dixie beer (living in Seattle has pretty much wrecked any taste I might have once had for that style of beer) so my memories of what once was may have no relation to what now is. Or something like that. An added memory: Back in the early 80's Dixie had a tap room (maybe now the tasting room?) in a small corner of the brewery facing Tulane Avenue. It was open from 3PM to 5PM every weekday and the beer was free. All you could drink. At the time I was a penniless grad student at Tulane Medical Center, and the brewery was right on my walk home, so I stopped in there every chance I could. Even with free beer, in a city notorious for its alcohol consumption, there were never more than two or three old codgers from the neighborhood in there on any given afternoon. But it was a warm, friendly, very low key place, and I missed it when new management gave it the ax around 1985. Now I'm getting all misty eyed. Damn. Dave in Seattle Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:12:54 -0500 From: "Alan McKay" <Alan.McKay.amckay at nt.com> Subject: The German 'R' correction In HBD 2899 I wrote : > My phonetics teacher in Koeln told us that the German "R" can be properly > trilled either on the front of the tongue (more northern) or on the back of > the tongue (more southern). I can't do the front one, but don't have any > problems with the back one. I of course got that mixed up. The front of the tongue is Southern, and the rear of the tongue is Northern. cheers, -Alan - -- Alan McKay <<...>> Norstar Desktop Computing and LAN Solutions PC Support Prime amckay at nortelnetworks.com 765-6843 (ESN 395) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:49:20 -0600 From: Kim Peterson <kim at nconnect.net> Subject: air/oxygen/pure oxygen Am trying to determine what to use to help kick start fermentation. There has been conversation here about pure oxygen (99.9%) and ~20-30 second blasts. What is the need for pure O2 when carboys are shaken vigorously just before pitching? Instead of using pure 02 can the small canisters of oxygen for welding/cutting found in hardware stores also be used? It would seem that the oxygen in this type of tank is greater than the oxygen in air but less than pure 02. Thanx for your thots. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:28:09 -0600 From: "Robert D. Dittmar" <Robert.D.Dittmar at stls.frb.org> Subject: Malting Rye and Oats Rye malting has become mini-thread in the HBD lately, and I thought I could pass along some information. I am no expert on the subject, but I recently purchased the new book "Homebrewer's Garden" and it contains some very good and detailed descriptions of home malting. The claim in the book is that both malting rye AND oats is a dangerous business because they attract butyrifying (sp.?) bacteria that in turn produce butyric acid, a toxic substance. I don't want to dismiss earlier claims that the danger arises from the fungus ergot, but doesn't that grow on any grain? I thought some outbreaks of ergot were due to contaminated wheat flour, though I may be mistaken about that. Rob Dittmar St. Louis, MO Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:42:32 -0500 From: Danny Breidenbach <DBreidenbach at nctm.org> Subject: Re: Fries Al wondered about the "French" in french fries. My understanding is as follows: French fries are actually French-cut fried potatoes. So it's not who invented them or where they were first made --- it's the cutting of the pommes du terre that gave the name. I'd wager the modern day "french fry" was invented in the US of A. And I think McDonald's fried are still better than Burger King's. And what do folks think of Michelob's Pale Ale? I thought it was pretty good, considering. Price is right, too. - --Danny Boy in Ashburn, VA. closer to Old Dominion Brewing than to Jeff. Return to table of contents
Date: 14 Dec 1998 13:43:56 -0500 From: Eric.Fouch at steelcase.com Subject: Roller mill/Bad Beer/Cider HBD- I may be a little late on this response, but as Mr. Druey can tell you, Work Release programs really cramp one's style. Anyway, regarding malt mills, I purchased a Marga mill three years ago. It's an Italian grain mill for crushing and milling various grains used in Italian cuisine. With a few adjustments, I increased the adjustablility from 3 settings to 15 settings, motorized it and mounted it on a platform which straddles a 5 gallon pail. It does not have a huge throughput, but it is adequate, especially for $50. I believe Mr. Burley also employs the use of an Italian made Marga. My vote for the worst non-mega beer would also be an SA product. Their laughably named "Cranberry Lambic" from a Holiday pack a few years ago. Don't know if he still slings this swill or not. Although Sammy does make a few good styles, I am maintaining a one-man boycott of his products. Don't agree with his politics or brewing/naming philosophies etc. Basically, I think he is a Wein. A cider question (can't seem to get any response from the cider digest) or two: If fermenting at room temp. does the malo-lactic fermentation take place simultaneously with the the yeastie fermentation, or does it only happen when doing spontaneous (no campden) fermentations? I am a bit concerned of the "spring malo-lactic fermentation" taking place in bottled product, causing overcarbonation problems. Also- last week I fined my cider with gelatine: a teaspoon of gelatine stirred into water at about 190F. I added the gelatine solution rather hot. A white milky precipitate seemed to form upon the addition of the hot solution. After two days, a milky white coagulated pellicle like floatie was floating around at the top of the cider. Did I set some pectins by adding the gelatine solution hot? IMCR? What is the recommended fining agent for ciders? Bentonite? Thanks! Eric Fouch Bent Dick CiderShack Kentwood MI Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:48:15 -0800 From: "Robert C. McDonald" <Bob.McDonald at abanet.org> Subject: stolen recipes In HBD 2900, Jason Henning wrote: >Quite a few people tout Brain Rezac as one of the good guys over at the AHA. Is he? I wonder. >Brian helped Rob Moline further his personnel vendetta against his former employer, Little Apple Brewing Company. Brian used Rob's stolen >Big 12 barleywine recipe . . . >Where would the AHA be had the Little Apple filed suit and won? I saw this and remembered Louis Bonham' post in HBD 2575 in which he expressed the idea that recipes are not protectable intellectual property. I agree. It's highly unlikely Little Apple would have won such a lawsuit against the AHA for using this recipe based on an argument it was "stolen property." Such a case also wouldn't succeed on a trade secret argument, since the recipe was already public by the time it was picked up by the AHA. Just my 2 cents Bob McDonald Washington D.C. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:12:27 -0500 (EST) From: pbabcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com> Subject: AHA and L'il Apple Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Bob McDonald answers Jason Henning's charge with: " I saw this and remembered Louis Bonham' post in HBD 2575 in which he expressed the idea that recipes are not protectable intellectual property. I agree. It's highly unlikely Little Apple would have won such a lawsuit against the AHA for using this recipe based on an argument it was "stolen property." Such a case also wouldn't succeed on a trade secret argument, since the recipe was already public by the time it was picked up by the AHA." Moreover, don't forget who it was that actually made the recipe public! It was their "new head brewer" on AOL. And, from his signature, it could have been construed that he was acting as an agent of Little Apple. No, Brian and Rob were not exposed in my (am-not-a-lawyer-nor-do-I-play-one-in-a- number-one-daytime-drama) opinion. Harumph. Uh, yes... (That's lawyer talk for "you can take that to the bank, I think) -p Return to table of contents
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