HOMEBREW Digest #2971 Sat 06 March 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Cream Ale/DMS ("Tim Morgan")
  Re: The Burton Union ("Arnold J. Neitzke")
  Bottle Yeast ("Steve")
  Aircraft Pressures Correction (Jim Bentson)
  Alcohol Determination ("Swintosky, Michael D.")
  Trub and hop removal from wort? (Joy Hansen)
  Brewpot drains (Paul Shick)
  Leaks (Mark_Ohrstrom/Humphrey_Products)
  portable water filters ("rrscott")
  Re: Acid levels in wit...let's make this easy (Jeff Renner)
  Burton Union device ??? (Lee Menegoni)
  Pseudo Burton Union System (Dan Listermann)
  I've got this wit stuff in my beer... (Jim Layton)
  Strike temperature ("Mercer, David")
  RE: pH meters and SINK Holes (LaBorde, Ronald)
  My .02cents on obtaining mash temps / SLIDE CULTURE misprint??/Milling with JSPs MM (Joe Rolfe)
  re: Fermentor Geometry and Attenuation (John_E_Schnupp)
  hop separation (John_E_Schnupp)
  Fred Garvin's Craft Corner (Eric.Fouch)
  The  HD Burton Union (wkolb)
  Open Fermenters, Beginner's Questions (Dave Burley)
  Koelsch (Ted McIrvine)
  Flocculation, (Dave Burley)
  North Coast Red Seal Ale (Troy Hager)
  Mills, again.... ("David C. Harsh")
  MCAB 3rd place Doppelbock Recipe ("Jim & Shelly Wagner")
  Near complete 2-tier ("C and K")

Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild's 13th annual Big and Huge - 28 March 1999: Rules and forms at www.globaldialog.com/madbrewers Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! Contact brewery at hbd.org for information regarding the "Cat's Meow" Back issues are available via: HTML from... http://hbd.org Anonymous ftp from... ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer AFS users can find it under... /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer COPYRIGHT for the Digest as a collection is currently held by hbd.org (Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen). Digests in their entirity CANNOT be reprinted/reproduced without this entire header section unless EXPRESS written permission has been obtained from hbd.org. Digests CANNOT be reprinted or reproduced in any format for redistribution unless said redistribution is at absolutely NO COST to the consumer. COPYRIGHT for individual posts within each Digest is held by the author. Articles cannot be extracted from the Digest and reprinted/reproduced without the EXPRESS written permission of the author. The author and HBD must be attributed as author and source in any such reprint/reproduction. (Note: QUOTING of items originally appearing in the Digest in a subsequent Digest is exempt from the above. Home brew clubs NOT associated with organizations having a commercial interest in beer or brewing may republish articles in their newsletters and/or websites provided that the author and HBD are attributed. ASKING first is still a great courtesy...) JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 19:35:30 -0700 From: Tom Wolf <wolfhrt at ibm.net> Subject: MALTOSE FALCONS' 1999 MAYFAIRE HOME BREWING CONTEST-JUDGES WANTED Greetings and thanks for past judging support of the Maltose Falcons home brewing contests! All judges are welcome. As you know there are never too many. If you are a judge or an experienced taster and are interested in judging our Mayfaire contest it will be held at 9:00 AM on Saturday, April 10th at the St. Luke Church in Woodland Hills CA. The address is 5312 Comercio Way, 1blk east of Canoga and 2 blocks south of Ventura. If you would like to register or just have other questions, please contact me, Tom Wolf (wolf1 at ibm.net) 805-296-0872 home, 805-253-5487 work. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:12:47 -0800 From: "Tim Morgan" <blkcloud at ncal.verio.com> Subject: Cream Ale/DMS Cream Ale Question This January I brewed a recipe from the Brewery "Creamy Cream Ale" This extract recipe caught my eye from some time ago and I just wanted to try it. Although I changed a few things (used brew store light LME versus John Bull extract, and I did a partial mash of the grains versus steeping them) the boil and the rest when fine in fact I really like the stuff. Very pale, very light, tastes creamy and sweet but...(there always is one) had it judged recently. Now the problems start. The Judge dinged me for high DMS and vegetable aroma. This guy is a certified BJCP so he must be right. I'm still very new at the competition thing (been brewing for three year though). Ok says I what did I do wrong. Millers book indicates that pale lager malt is the problem and that I should be using British pale malt instead (i.e., low DMS) but I have used this malt on other styles and never had this so what to do? Note that the creamed corn flavor was present when the wort was put into the fermentor to the best of my memory. My questions are 1) should this style taste like the creamed corn DMS flavor? 2) anyone had this problem with either the recipe or the style? 3) I have searched TCM and HBD and found little info on cream ale? 4) ideas on overcomming DMS? 5) any good extract Cream Ale TIA Tim Morgan Black Cloud Brewery Petaluma, CA As quotes go my favorite is, "If it's less than a million, do it by hand" Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 06:16:00 -0500 (EST) From: "Arnold J. Neitzke" <neitzkea at frc.com> Subject: Re: The Burton Union I had the same problem. To correct it, just hit the reload button, after you are on the page. On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Rod Prather wrote: > The burton union seem like it might be a great product. The pictures were > non existant and leaves me wondering just what the Burton Union acutally > is. Except perhaps the first night after Richard and Liz's wedding. Don't > think you'd want to publish that either. _________________________________________________________ Arnold J. Neitzke Internet Mail: neitzkea at frc.com Brighton, Mi CEO of the NightSky brewing Company - --------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 06:59:24 -0500 From: "Steve" <stjones1 at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Bottle Yeast Greetings, all. I am planning to brew a dubbel in a few weeks, and don't have any belgian yeasts in my bank, but I do have a bottle of Chimay I've been saving. Can anyone tell me if the Chimay yeast is a bottling yeast or the fermentation yeast? Steve State of Franklin Homebrewers Johnson City, Tennessee http://home.att.net/~stjones1 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 07:51:28 -0500 From: Jim Bentson <jbentson at longisland.com> Subject: Aircraft Pressures Correction Hi All Yesterday, I posted a statement about aircraft pressurization. Unfortunately it ended with the following paragraph which should be ignored as it confuses the issue.: "The usual design load for aircraft floors is 100 to 200 psf. At 35,000 ft the pressure differential between the cabin and the outside of the fuselage is around 0.5 atmospheres or 72 psf." Apparently, the arithmetic part of my brain was turned off when I wrote that. In converting from atmospheres to psi to psf, I left a step out. 72 psf is 1/2 psi not 1/2 atmosphere (which is 7.2 psi or 1037 psf). While this is large compared to the uniform floor design load of 100-200 psf, the failure load of the floor is considerably higher as the floor must be designed not to fail during any decompression incident Jim Bentson Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:15:49 -0500 From: "Swintosky, Michael D." <Swintosk at timken.com> Subject: Alcohol Determination Peter Ensminger compiled a listing of various formulae for estimation of alcohol content in beer. A small brewer like myself finds this both interesting and useful. But does anyone know the accuracy of these methods? That is, how do their results compare to known accurate methods? Can anyone provide the +/- error for each method? Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:38:45 -0500 From: joytbrew at halifax.com (Joy Hansen) Subject: Trub and hop removal from wort? Roger wrote: >I am trying to decide on a Brew-pot design. . . .I also use a >copper "cane" with a copper cap and a "chore boy" as a way >of removing hops and trub. . .How hops and trub are best removed > from hot wort (I use a counter flow wort chiller) Hi Roger, I've used a keg brew pot for as long as I can remember and it works just fine at removing trub and pelletized hops from the wort. However, I must use whole hops as a portion of the hop additions. I have a fitting welded to the flat wall of sanke keg and a brass pipe elbow pickup inside the keg adjusted to leave about 1/2 gallon. Beyond the elbow inside the keg, I've attached a stainless steel screen formed into a tube of about 1 inch in diameter and about 6 inches long. Are you using a fine nylon mesh bag over your pot scrubber? Using a portion of whole hops should remove most of the break material and pelletized hops. The nylon mesh bag should be equivalent to the stainless steel screen. The whole hops form a filter over the screen, much like the husk material does in the lauter. Any hop fines that make it through before the filter sets seem to be of little consequence and are scrubbed out by the Kraeusen or remain in the yeast cake. It's not a whirl pool, but It works for me! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 08:59:38 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Shick <SHICK at JCVAXA.jcu.edu> Subject: Brewpot drains Hello All, Roger Ayotte asks about brewpot drains and what systems work well for straining out hops and trub. Roger, the easiest set up that I can think of is to use Jack's EasyMasher in one of your existing kettles. If you use whole hops for flavor or FWH, these form a good enough filter bed around the screen to strain out the pellet hops and hot break nicely. It's also easy to install, and a real bargain. For my half barrel brewpot, it works well even when I use Irish Moss (in reasonable quantities,) and an immersion chiller. There's not much gunk carried over to the fermentor. It's nice to have something so simple work so well! Paul Shick Baement Brewing in Cleveland Hts, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 09:10:05 -0500 From: Mark_Ohrstrom/Humphrey_Products at humphreypc.com Subject: Leaks Jeff Beinhauris is troubled by leaks from his Gott(R)(TM) faucets: > I've tried to tighten them but this seems to only make it > worse. I guess I could try to just replace with like washers ... Overtightening the faucet nuts *may* distort the washers enough to provide a leak path. If the seal material is permanently distorted, or hardened by heat, UV exposure, or time, the washers will need to be replaced to get a good seal. Another thought is that you may have a spiral leak path around the threads themselves (you don't mention whether you've got a seep or a gusher). A remedy may be to wrap several layers of Teflon(TM) tape over the faucet threads before slipping the washers on. Be careful not to force the nut over the tape - go easy and allow the tape to conform, or run the risk of splitting the nut. Mark in Kalamazoo Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 06:27:23 -0800 From: "rrscott" <rrscott at jps.net> Subject: portable water filters Brad Manbeck said: >I am looking for an inexpensive water filter for brewing. Something that >wouldn't be permanent since I am renting. I use a kitchen counter semi-portable filter that has a screw in attachment to replace the faucet's diffuser and 2 hoses that go back to the filter unit, which sits on the counter behind the faucets. There is a spring loaded pull switch at the faucet attachment that lets you select filtered water or plain old tap water. It uses the standard filters (about 10" long) so you can use the grade of filter appropriate for your water quality and needs. I got it at Orchard Supply (now part of Sears) but most any home center has them. Cost about $45 and filters are about from $5 to $20, depending on capability. When you move, just unscrew the hose attachment and put the original diffuser back on. Bob Scott Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 09:40:53 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Acid levels in wit...let's make this easy Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> wants to sour his wit with Lactobacillus but >Head Start is not currently selling cultures. Yeast Culture Kit Co. is http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/yckco/yckcotbl.html (yada, yada). Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:13:14 -0500 From: Lee Menegoni <Lee.Menegoni at digital.com> Subject: Burton Union device ??? Why is that device called a Burton Union? It looks more like a wort recovery device, for the cost of it and a carboy one could get a larger carboy. Since the recovered wort would be blanketed by CO2 it isn't doesn't work like a Burton Union. As I understand it, some of the effects of a Burton Union are to expel solids that rise to the top of the wort early in fermentation and to introduce additional oxygen into the fermentation via wort that flows back into the fermenter which leads to elevated diacetyl levels, try a Samuel Smith Pale Ale for example. This device seems to fail to do either. Lee Menegoni email: Lee.Menegoni at Compaq.Com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:18:31 -0500 From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com> Subject: Pseudo Burton Union System Rod Prather writes: <The burton union seem like it might be a great product. The pictures were non existant and leaves me wondering just what the Burton Union acutally is. Except perhaps the first night after Richard and Liz's wedding. Don't think you'd want to publish that either.> The Pseuto Burton Union system is a device that recirculates blow off. As you probably know the Real Burton Union system blows off foam from fermentation casks to a trough that allows the excessive yeast to settle out and retain some bitter hop resins or so they say. The beer is then returned to the casks through a coupling called a "union." It is an alternative to skimming. I concieved the Pseudo system while trying to ferment 15 gallons in a half barrel. I lost 3 gallons and was not just a little offended. This system consists of a large jar that is connected, upside down, to the mouth of the fermenter by way of a large diameter tube which protrudes a few inches into the jar.The tube is drilled with a hole near the top. The jar's bottom is drilled to allow a blowoff tube to be inserted into it. The idea is that the blow off goes up into the jar and collapses in the height of the jar. The beer returns down the tube while some yeast settles in the space under the tube. The bitter hop resins attach themselves to the sides of the jar instead of falling back into the beer. The blowoff tube at the top of the jar is needed in case the fermentation is too vigorous. Beer loss is minimal with this system. Usually about a cup of mostly yeast which is a nice source for harvest for the next batch. Does it taste better? I don't know, but I am running a test comparing the same wort fermented in a 6.5 gal fermenter, a traditional blow off tube in a 5 gal. and the Pseudo Burton System. We will see. This product is not on the market just yet, so ask your local supplier for one so I will get off my ass. Dan Listermann dan at listermann.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 09:33:57 -0600 From: Jim Layton <a0456830 at rlemail.dseg.ti.com> Subject: I've got this wit stuff in my beer... Nathan Kanous asked about souring a wit with lactobacillus: >So, you folks out there in HBD land...anybody know how much >lactose should be added to 5 gallons of wit beer to achieve >a "desireable" level of acidity after fermentation and >innoculation with lactobacilli? I've made several wits, one of them was soured by adding a lactobacillus culture at bottling time. The results were very good, won a couple of ribbons. I bought the culture from YCKC and followed the procedure used by Scott Bickham for one of his award winning wits. See HBD #1581 or search Cat's Meow for "wit and bickham". You don't need to add lactose. The lactobacilli find enough to eat without it. I halted the process by refrigerating the bottles when the sourness reached the level I liked. Brad Manbeck asked about a slow fermentation with Wyeast 3944 at around 64F. In my experience, 64F is pushing the low end for this yeast. It performs much better at 68F-70F. Jim Layton (Howe, TX) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 07:35:20 -0800 From: "Mercer, David" <dmercer at path.org> Subject: Strike temperature I remember a few years ago Dave B. and Al K. engaged in one of their entertaining wars over mash temperatures. Let's hope this thread doesn't resurrect that unpleasant exchange. It appears that Dave likes to mash at what some of us think is too high a temperature, but if he likes the beer this produces and if dough-ins with strike water at 180F produce that mash temperature on his system, then who are we to argue? That said, I shoot for 151F in single infusion mashes, and, if I rinse out my 10 gallon Gott with hot tap water, add strike water at 167F, then add grain at 1lb to 1qt, I consistently *every time* hit that 151F temp right on the nose. (Yes, I know that the temperature is uneven in the mash, but I stir well and take measurements in four or five different places in the tun, and they always average out to 151F.) It usually takes about 15 minutes for the temperature to stabilize to that level. The unusual thing is that the temperature of the grain can range from 65F (brought up from the basement and milled right before mashing) to 70F (milled the night before and kept overnight in the kitchen) and it has no apparent effect on this final rest temperature. For me, 167F strike water will produce a 151F (1lb/1qt) mash every time, and it sounds as if this is roughly consistent with most of the HBD posts on this subject. I have not had as good precision hitting lower temperatures for protein rests with wheat malt, but that is another story... Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 09:53:45 -0600 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: pH meters and SINK Holes >>>> ...But to the problem of why the short life of pH meters. A $35 pH meter is a throw a way meter. It is not design for long life. A top quality meter will cost upwards of $100 and much much more. If you want accuracy (ph .01) start at $150. Also look for one with a replaceable probe.... <<<< And therein lies the problem. For $150 and 2 year lifetime, if I brew twice a month, ($150/(24 * 2)), would be $3.12 per brew. This is if you get the 2 year lifetime for the probe. My experience with probe life has been more like 6 months, so ($150/(24 * 0.5)) would be $12.50 per brew. This is why I view PH meters for homebrewing as SINK HOLES. >>>> ...If you want to extend the life of the pH probe use it at ambient temperature only. Never stick it into the hot mash. Remove a sample of wort let it cool then measure the pH. Use the manufactures rinse solution and storage solution when finished. The probe tip must stay wet while stored.... <<<< Yes, this is exactly what I have done with the second PH meter I owned. Guess what, it made nadder tadder difference, still 6 months life. I mean, talk about a letdown - measure some distilled water, get PH 9.2, huh, check again, PH 3.8. Hmm, Just hold the PH meter into anything and you can get any reading you like. in fact you will get ALL the readings you can imagine. >>>> Ron, Does pH meter use really improve the beer? And does it improve consistency? Maybe these questions need to be answered first.... <<<< Under ideal conditions, like in a professional brewery lab, yes, I would say that the PH meter is essential. My personal experience with homebrewing is that the PH meter use has the potential to screw up your beer more than to improve it. How can this be so? By getting false readings, by not being able to know if you are acidifying too much. I am not saying that no one should use a PH meter, what I am saying is that for the expense to keep your PH meter accurate and dependable, you will spend so much $$$$ that it is not cost effective for homebrewing. Now, if a club owns a meter, and the members all use it, then you are approaching a sensible plan. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 11:26:00 -0500 From: Joe Rolfe <rolfe at sky.sky.com> Subject: My .02cents on obtaining mash temps / SLIDE CULTURE misprint??/Milling with JSPs MM Use the formulas once and get a ball park. Everyone is not going to be able to use one formula. Determine your heat losses in your set up, the ambient temps where you brew and keep good records. Far too many formulas (no offense intented to those techie types), use your experience and the art of brewing here. One item for larger homebrewers - is the temp of the water uniform in temp and not stratified?? I use an electric element and a pump to recirc the water from the bottom of the tank thru the element tube (RIMs like) and to the top of the HLT (try not to splash/aerate it). This pretty much assures me of a reasonably close temp thruout the HLT. For most of the mash schedules, I heat the water 25F-30F higher than the desired mash temp. Yea a big difference you might say, but hell it is only beer and I am not Bud/Miller altho the tun is prtty large (90gal) and not insulated. This temp does vary (- 10F) during the warmer months. I have never been able to detect any difference in the beer with a shift of 2-3 degrees in the mash anyway. If anyone can without send the beer to the lab, my hat is off to you. The initial mash is thicker and not alot of fun to stir. But without all the added volume it is easier to adjust. With the thicker mash comes another issue - you will use more sparge water and you may want to adjust the ph/content as a result.For all brewers is the thermometer accurate?? I have seen alot of crappy thermometers that are the bottom line reason of missed mash temps. works for me. On the post of SLIDE CULTURE yesterday - I read it and something does not look right - the dilution. But that is what it said in the doc and that is what I wrote. Use your judgement in obtaining the proper dilution for the volume you toss on the agar. The separation number are accurate. Again try it, keep good records, modify, try again...not rocket science. On the MM discussions. <I do not own stock in JSP or have any other financial interests in the company, just a repeat satisified customer.> I just recent repurchased on of the gear driven, adjustable MMs. Works as good as one I bought quite some time ago. Could not be happier (unless I had one of the German made wet mills). I dont know what "holy grail" milled grain people are looking for but my guess if you are still looking for the grail - you may never find it. At smaller volumes like most of us homebrewers it does not really matter beyond a few points: 1) are the husks all ripped to shreads?? (not desirable) 2) are the grains crush nearly 100% (very desirable)- no/very few uncrushed grains 3) is the output 100% flour?? (not desirable) 4) does it take all day to do 20 pounds (not desirable) Skip the sieves, and what Practical Brewer says, this is aimed at the big guys. This may be the grail. Look at the results after milling, again this is not rocket science either. Many have read and seen what it should look like - correct. What does yours look like? Is it reasonably close to what you have read/seen in the past. If so and something is still not right with the wort coming out, something else is wrong. js said in response to David C. Harsh" <David.Harsh at uc.edu >This is simply untrue and all you need do is look at the rollers >after milling a batch. The dust and fines cover the entire roller >although concentrated in the center. The faster the rollers turn >the more roller length gets used. This I can vouch for - I used to spin my rollers at about 600rpm, grain did 'walk' to the enitre length. The only thing I saw the hopper guides doing was slowing down the amount of grain let in. In the original mill I had - I removed these and thruput climbed to 500 to 600 pounds per hour. js said.. >Best way to achieve that is to get people to stop buying our >wonderful product. Nahh - you got a great little product there. The one addition I do make to the mill is to close off the gap between the movable hopper and the front/back plates. I have seen some grain coming out the gap. Good Luck and Great Brewing (if anyone emails me in the next week - no I did not trash can it, I am on vacation skiing in NH if there is anything left up there - what a crappy winter for snow lovers here in the NE.) Joe Rolfe Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:22:20 -0800 From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com Subject: re: Fermentor Geometry and Attenuation Ed sez' >I have noticed an interesting phenomenon with my last <snip> >The smaller carboy always seems to finish at an SG of >1.012 while the larger finishes at an SG of 1.006. <snip> >Is the result simply the effect of the surface area that the >fermentor presents? Is there any published data on optimal >sizes? Curious, a few weeks ago a neighbor and I split a 10 gallon batch. I believe he said his SO was 1.012ish when he bottled it. Mine was 1.022. We split the yeast from my previous batch. We both had the same volume, the only difference (in light of Ed's comments) was that his fermentor has a larger diameter than mine. It would be interesting to split another batch with him and see if the same thing happens. Are you up for it Stephen? John Schnupp, N3CNL Dirty Laundry Brewery Colchester, VT 95 XLH 1200 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:54:28 -0800 From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com Subject: hop separation >Anyway, I hope this can begin with several comments on the "standard" >set-ups I mentioned, and also would like to hear any "inventive" ideas >that may help me decide to convert my Sankey keg, or purchase a >"Brew-pot". I think I can afford the SS pot, but I don't like the >false bottom approach as advertised, as I think they may let too much >of pelletized hops through. I use a 15 gallon brewpot. I use an immersion chiller. I drain the pot with a ball valve attached thru the side, near the bottom. The pickup on the inside of the pot is 3/8" copper tubing (yeah 1/2" would be faster). The copper tubing is circular and is on the bottom of the pot and goes around the outside edge. I drilled a lot of holes in it and then covered it with some SS mesh that I removed from a SS reinforced washing machine hose. I got this idea from a web site of one of the regulars on HBD, I just can't remember who. I've been using this for a couple of years now with good results. If you whirlpool the hops will pile up in the center and you'll get damn near all the wort. I typically have 1-2 quarts trapped in the hops (I've measured this by had pressing the wort out of the hops after brewing) and use a loss of 2 quarts in my calculations so I'm not caught short of wort in the end. John Schnupp, N3CNL Dirty Laundry Brewery Colchester, VT 95 XLH 1200 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:27:00 -0500 From: Eric.Fouch at steelcase.com Subject: Fred Garvin's Craft Corner HBD- If you stop by the Bent Dick YoctoBrewery, make sure to go down the hall past the brewery, through the second door past the Male Escort Staging area, and you'll find Fred Garvin's Craft Corner. Today, we got out the Bent Dick Tool Box, and set ourselves to working on the "new" RIMs system; functional, but still under construction. Today Fred had a good idea: Take the top that was cut out of the Sanke keg, and make a false bottom (Phred HATES Phloaters). Phirst..I mean first, we sanded the edges down and made sure we rounded them out nice and even. Then we took a 9/64" drill bit (Fred dulled the 1/8" bit doing some adjustments to his elaborate array of trusses), and drilled out about 400 holes. We deburred the backside of the holes using a 9/16" drill bit. Now what used to be the top of the keg now sits in the bottom. Fred was enamored with the elegance of this solution. We sealed off the bung hole with some 0.010" brass shim stock- we pressed it around the bung hole, then crimped it in place with a pair of pliers. After drilling a 1/2" hole through the shim, the 3/8" copper dip tube fits down through the false bottom, and the other end goes out through the side of the keg, where it is adapted up to garden hose threads for the RIMs pump. This new setup is destined for it's maiden voyage when The Brown Eye Gang comes out to take over the YoctoBrewery, churning out 15 gallons of house brew slated for dispensation at this years pike opener, the last weekend of April. We'll report back on any operational ceveats we encounter. Gotta go- Fred's got his club foot stuck in the K-Y wall dispenser again. Eric Fouch Bent Dick YoctoBrewery Kentwood MI Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 17:40:01 GMT From: wkolb at home.com Subject: The HD Burton Union I have been using something very similar and now I have a name for it! It consists of a small 3 in. piece of blow off tube, a 2 liter soda bottle, a No#2 stopper with a hole in it and an airlock Cost about 2 to 3 bucks and works well for small to mod. amounts of blow off. Here are some pictures if you would like to see it. http://catalog.com/happydog/burt.html Warning. The pics are a little large so if you have a slow connection or pay by the min. you may not want to look at them! This is also part of my Brewing Supply web site. Fair warning I also stuck in a picture of my "Happy Dog brewing tree" that I will be using this saturday at our home brew meeting. Wil Happy Dog Brewing Supplies In Mt Pleasant SC and loving it :) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:43:54 -0500 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Open Fermenters, Beginner's Questions Brewsters: Jim Williams asks for suggestions on what to use for fermenters. Although my first few brews were done in a carboy ( pre homebrewing books and the like - we made up our own rules), I quickly gave up with cleaning up the splooge and contamination to go to an "open" fermentation style which I learned while living in Britain from books where it WAS legal ( unlike the US in those days) to do homebrewing. I use a 6+ gallon plastic wastebasket. covered with a plastic sheet held down tightly with a daisy chain of rubber bands.Cover this to prevent light entering. I "drop" this into a carboy, along with some of the yeast from the bottom after the major fermentation is over ( 3-5 days). I have been doing it this way since 1969 and never had a bad batch. If you can, get a white or grey polyethylene waste basket. This will minimize the unlikely chance that the pigments will somehow affect the beer or be unhealthy to you. The light color will make visual inspection for cleanliness easier. I suggest that you get a heavy walled basket wash it with dish detergent and fill it with boiling water a few times and allow it to stand to remove any potential surface contaminants. There are several possible advantages to this method. 1) ease in cleaning the ring off the side of the vessel, since you can use a cloth or paper towel and wipe it directly on the ring. I often use straight bleach while wearing rubber gloves and glasses to wipe down the entire interior. 2) it has been suggested without proof that oxygen can continue to be disssolved in the wort until anaerobic fermentation takes place, since oxygen can diffuse through the thin polyethylene sheet. 3)Racking over when the fermentation quiets down will serve to deflocculate yeast and allow it to finish out reliably to dryness. The temptation with a carboy is to leave the beer in the primary until it is comletely finished. With the higher gravity beers this can lead to incomplete fermentations if yeast flocculation occurs before the fermentation is finished. 4) Others disagree, but I see the carboy/overflow hose as a most likely source of contamination, since it is so difficult to clean reliably. 5) The plastic vessel is light and easy to handle, doesn't break if you drop it or thermally stress it. 6) The old unproven bugaboo about plastic scratching and being a source of contamination just has not been proven and I think it is unlikely. Certainly less likely than the overflow hose being a cource of contamination. I have been using the same plastic vessels for decades with no adverse effects. - ------------------------------------------------ Clark asks if it OK to pour hot wort through the air - NO! always cool you wort first. Many beginners screw up their beer by pouring the hot wort through a strainer to remove the hops. This single act will ruin your beer. Cool the beer as quickly as you can by allowing the boiler to stand covered in a sink with cold water constantly being changed and stir the wort periodically. Get a heat exchanger as soon as you can. The cold wort should be aerated to encourage yeast growth. Correct your water by reading AJ DeLange's excellent contributions in the archives. You can boil and cool to remove temporary hardness. Dilute with distilled water. Use a deionizing cartridge or reverse osmosis. Proper crushing of malt is of utmost importance if you want to get good extractions. Read about my double milling procedure in the HBD Archives, Others like Jack Schmidling, Dan Listerman have also made contributions. I do not think a food mill will be the best but it will work. It may overheat if you run it too long. If you are going out to spend money, spend it on a variable nip roller mill. Keep your beer cooler than 70F if you can, but more importantly keep it in the dark. I use boxes or paper bags from the grocery store. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 13:28:18 -0800 From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com> Subject: Koelsch My favorite Koelsch is Goose Island Koelsch. I've never had an authentic Koelsch from Cologne, but the Goose Island is a very good match for the descriptions that I've read. It has a delicate malty flavor with a slight trace of noble hops. > From: Tidmarsh Major <ctmajor at samford.edu> > > What do others think (of Sam Adams Spring Ale or other American > Koelsch-style beers)? > > Regards, > Tidmarsh Major > Birmingham, Alabama - -- McIrvine at Ix.Netcom.Com College of Staten Island/CUNY http://www.csi.cuny.edu/academia/programs/mus.html http://www.csi.cuny.edu/arts/calendar.html Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:35:47 -0500 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Flocculation, Brewsters: Ed Sieja has discovered that a larger carboy finishes at a lower SG than a smaller one. I can explain it, but I am surprised that such a small difference in volume will produce it. The explanation is this, presuming you had identical worts in each one and didn't transfer a higher concentrated wort in one and not the other, taller vessels allow yeast a longer contact time with the beer, since even though they are flocculated, they have to fall a longer path and, therefore, chew up more sugar. One test you can make is to be sure the wort is well stirred before you transfer it to the vessels. Check the OG in each vessel. Also, it does not surprise me that the "open" fermentation gave you a consistently lower FG, since it probably absorbed more oxygen from the air before fermentation and possibly you transferred the still fermenting batch to carboys and deflocculated the yeast somewhat or at least stirred it up. Both of of these factors will allow you to go nearer to the true End of Fermentation (EOF). One suggestion - perform the transfer to another carboy when the wild and crazy fermentation slows and see if your FG doesn't fall. The reason you like the higher OG one is that it has a little bit of sugar in it and gives it a fuller mouth. Commercial beers often use this trick, or at least filter it off the yeast early so that there is little sugar left over and they can get more fermentations per year.. If you like the higher FG beer try mashing at a higher temperature than you normally do ( go to 158F). - --------------------------------------------------------------------- John Varady makes the same old assumptions and comes out with the old answer. John, my value of the heat capacity for malt comes from M&BS (1971) P.259 and the heat capacity is R = 0.439. About 10% or more higher than your assumptions. You also did not bother to take into account the mash tun and stirrer heat capacity. More importantly perhaps, you did not take into account my description of how the new brewer should go about this process by adding water a little at a time to get to the correct tempertature. Later additions of hot water will be needed as he maintains the temperature over the mashing time. It is my opinion that 152F is too low to make a full-mouth beer, so that's why I suggested 155F - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:37:47 -0800 From: Troy Hager <thager at bsd.k12.ca.us> Subject: North Coast Red Seal Ale Fellow Brewers, Rick asks about California's North Coast Brewing Co's Imperial Stout - it *is* a fine stout and I have found that most of their beers are top quality (IMHO). I have visited this brewery (in Fort Bragg) a few times and since it's name has come up, I might as well ask a question that I have been wondering about for a long time. I have long been a fan of their Amber Ale called "Red Seal." It has a distinct hop aroma and flavor that I cannot pin down. I do taste Cascade or Chinook or Centenials but there is something more in there. It also has a distinct round caramel/toasty flavor for the malt. Although the bottles can be inconsistent (I have had many bottles that have gone off) when you get a good Red Seal, in my opinion, it is one of the best West Coast Ambers around. Does anyone have an idea what they use to make this great beer? -Troy Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 17:01:32 -0500 From: "David C. Harsh" <David.Harsh at uc.edu> Subject: Mills, again.... Jack responded...... >In case you missed it, Zymurgy's "Roll out the Mills" article >concluded that the best crush of all mills was by running through >a fixed mill twice. They also use an older mill but not the >same vintage as Fix. Yes, I saw the article. When my students come up with results that are so close to published data, I am suspicious. As I recall, the article never states that the data presented is from a twice-ground sample. (that's why I asked how the data was collected in the first place) Once again, the question that arises is whether the twice crushed grain makes better beer or simply matches the distribution better! I just love that peer reviewed science of Zymurgy! >>"Remember the start of this discussion was the QDA claim that using the >>distribution listed in the Practical Brewer will result in better >>homebrew..... >Not sure what a QDA is but I believe this discussion started by >someone asking the absurd question "is the Schmidling mill as good >as good as 6 roller commercial mill?" >>"This so-called IDEAL DISTRIBUTION is irrelevant to homebrewing >>except as a very general guidline..... >I couldn't agree more and have said so many times. So we can agree on something. But YOU are the one who always mentions that your mill reproduces the mythical distribution. But only if you run it through twice using an old mill, right? Bottom line - if it really is irrelevant, why do YOU bring it up in your sales literature? For the record, QDA= Questionable Data Alert Someone coined it recently to indicate beliefs that aren't supported by solid science. >>...Jack's ad... claims that grain is actually milled across the entire >>length of the roller. ... prevents more than the center 50% from being >>used if you motorize, the effective roller length is reduced even more.... > >This is simply untrue and all you need do is look at the rollers >after milling a batch. The dust and fines cover the entire roller >although concentrated in the center. The faster the rollers turn >the more roller length gets used. If that's how you interpret data, maybe you should work for the Tobacco Institute. The fact that dust and fines cover the roller does not mean the entire roller is used. It means: a)that dust is generated and b)there is sufficient diffusion or convection for it to distribute over the entire system and c)that attractive forces between the dust particles and the rollers are enough for the particles to adhere to them. Dust collects underneath the table that I place my mill on - does that mean the table is grinding grain also? As far as increased speed using more roller, how do you explain that? Faster roller turning means less time for the grain to spread out. At the slowest speeds, the grain will spread out at its natural angle of repose, which I have measured in the lab to be approximately 25 degrees. Since you are grinding it an increased rate, the angle will by necessity be steeper and less of the roller will be used. Just to be fair, I'll ask the collective - any solids handling engineers want to address this and convince me otherwise? It makes zero physical sense, but I'm listening. Dave Still in Cincinnati... Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 17:43:51 -0500 From: "Jim & Shelly Wagner" <wagner at toad.net> Subject: MCAB 3rd place Doppelbock Recipe Hi all.... I finally have the time to post the recipe, so here it is.... 42.1% German 2 row 1oz. Hallertau N. Brewer 7.5a 60min 31.6% Munich .5oz.Hallertau N. Brewer 7.5a 30min 10.5% Crystal 60L 1oz. Hallertau Hersbrucker 4a 5min 10.5% Caramunich WYeast #2308 Munich Lager 5.3% Carapils I run Promash, and by the formulas I choose to utilize and the efficiency of my system, that gives me an OG. of 1.086 and an approximation of 33 IBU, 24SRM. I've used WYeast #2206 in the past with good results, but prefer the smoothness of 2308. I used a multi-step infusion with a 1:1.25 quart of water per # of grain.. 122'F for 20" 144'F for 40" 156'F for 60" Mash out at 165"H and sparge with 168-170'F acidified(Ph-5.8) water I also have the luxury of having a small RO(being a Bio Med Tech has it's advantages when you are a homebrewer!!!) and I did utilize it for the batch I made for the comp. Here is the profile that I used.... Ca 75ppm Mg 12ppm Na 30ppm SO4 120ppm Cl 90ppm CO3 50ppm Like always, pitch enough yeast or your attenuation will suffer(among other things!) Primary fermentation 20 days at 49-51'F in glass Secondary 60 days at 52-55'F in glass That's pretty much it...if I left anything out that you would like to know...drop me an email. Finally, it's been said a few times already, but many thanks again to Louis and everyone else who made the MCAB a reality..it was an awesome time in Texas and winning a 3rd was just icing on the cake!!! Cheers!!....Jim Wagner Pasadena, Maryland WARNING: Consumption of alcohol may make you think you are whispering when you're NOT!!! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 15:13:10 -0800 From: "C and K" <Cuckold at cornerpub.com> Subject: Near complete 2-tier I see the light at the end of the tunnel. Two tier frame (square steel tubing) complete. 3 propane burners and black steel piping installed, and tested last nite. Success! 3 keg completely finished, with 9 total couplings, and level indicators on two of them. GFCI wiring just completed. Pump arrived last week, still need to install (awaiting mail order nipples). HERM's type setup, plumbed 25' of 1/2" copper tubing in the hot licquor tank. Even the wife is getting into our winter project. She can't wait to begin. Unfortunately, we are also closing on a house this month, so anticipate our first all grain experiment for April. I knew absolutely nothing about gas plumbing, and was very nervous beforehand. Special thanks to the folks at : http://www.morebeer.com/sculptures.html Although I could have obtained everything I needed for less elsewhere, one guy there, Regan was extremely helpful, and encouraging. He talked me through the process, and made the whole thing a breeze. Moving brews.com was also a big help, and the guy there is always helpful, and a great supplier of pumps and plumbing. Not trying to advertise, just pass on where I got some great help. Also to the folks on this board, of course. I'd also like to especially thank someone who particularly motivated me. The guy at Jim's Homebrew, Spokane, Wa. When he said...."Don't you think you are going a little overboard". He lost my business after that day. Scott and Elke Seldom correct...but never without doubt Return to table of contents
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